Dec
09
Winter Meetings chat reminder
ByWe got interrupted by a minor move yesterday, so let’s give this thing another go today. Same time (1pm ET), same place (here). See you then.
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I love me some winter meeting chats….
From Jason Starks Twitter:
“Yankees are shopping the No. 1 pick in Thursday’s Rule 5 draft. They just obtained that pick this week in Brian Bruney trade.”
I have to wonder what position we are looking for.
maybe they pair the pick and melky for a good setup man…
No way. I don’t love Melky but I don’t think I’d trade him for a set-up man.
Actually, you know what? I wouldn’t trade anyone on the Yankees for a set-up man. They have at least two–Robertson and Marte–internal set-up options. No need to go to a restaurant when you can make your own dinner.
Melky is a 4th outfielder. If you could get a Setup man that would impact games the way Hughes did down the strectch why wouldnt you do it???
It would make the team that much more of a threat in the playoffs….
Melky is a 4th outfielder.
Agreed.
If you could get a Setup man that would impact games the way Hughes did down the strectch why wouldnt you do it???
Because nobody would give you a setup man that would impact games the way Hughes did down the stretch for a 4th outfielder.
Your proposal is moot.
I think the word is “moo”, like a cow’s opinion.
(golf clap)
not moot.
an expensive setup man on a bad team are always available. for example a Matt capps type
A) Matt Capps is not a reliever even REMOTELY as good as Hughes. That’s not a step down, that’s like 3 steps down.
B) The Pirates wouldn’t move Matt Capps for Melky and a R5 pick. Melky doesn’t hold value for them, they already have like 5 centerfielders in their org who are just as young as Melky, but cheaper, younger, with options, and with better upsides. The Pirates have no need for Melky.
i said “Matt Capps Type” And Im ill take back what i said about getting a hughes 09 version. how bout a tom gordon 2004 type player.
Btw, I havent heard any Jose Valverde rumors lately…have you?
And Im ill take back what i said about getting a hughes 09 version. how bout a tom gordon 2004 type player.
Hughes ‘09 = Gordon ‘04.
You still need to lower your expectations. Melky’s not getting you an elite 8th inning guy. Melky may get you a decent 7th inning guy, tops.
The Pirates wouldn’t give you Matt Capps for Melky, but they may give you John Grabow for Melky. Would you rather have Melky, or Grabow?
I thought so.
say they sign Cameron.
Melky becomes a useless part on this team. Then I would definatley trade Melky for a 7th inning guy. Melky isnt that good
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth
Thats what gardner is for. we dont need a 4th and a 5th outfielder on this team . I’d rather have the “depth” out of the pen.
Thats what gardner is for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scranton
“(golf clap)”
I’d still rather have Melky. As a 4th OF, he’s a better option than Brett Gardner and there’s no need to trade for any set-up man when they have K-Rob and Marte.
Melky is the perfect 4th OF for this team. Can play all 3 OF positions and can hit.
Because you’re not getting Phil Hughes 2009 for Melky Cabrera. Who out there can give you that kind of performance? Who out there can not only give you that kind of performance but is someone who can be acquired in a trade for Melky Cabrera? Phil Hughes 2009 was one of the absolute best relievers in baseball – including closers.
Saying you’d trade Melky for Phil Hughes 2009 is like saying you’d trade Melky for Albert Pujols. Yeah, that’s a great little sentiment, but it’s also completely unrealistic.
I think the Yankees have also established a decent track-record with their current philosophy, which is to not dedicate resources to the bullpen before the season starts, since they have internal options at both the MLB and MiLB levels they can try during the season and they can also make moves for middle relief arms during the season. The offseason is not the time to dedicate resources to the bullpen when those resources could be used elsewhere.
I don’t think there’s any reason to trade a young, MLB caliber centerfielder for a middle reliever. If you’re just looking to clear some salary, a la the Bruney deal, that’s one thing, but making a move like that wouldn’t improve the team on the field.
Yep.
aside for D-rob who is an absolute beast. Hughes was the internal option in 09 that set the yankees bullpen apart from everyone else. and he was not in the fold in the pen for 09 yanx kinda got lucky on that one. whomever was successful the year b4 Edwar etc…really sucked….The yanx envisioned alby and bruney to be a somewhat force and aside for a few stretches of bruney they were god aweful. so that philosophy of having the pieces within the organization is a little skewed. if they can get a Raphael soriano then why not?
aside for D-rob who is an absolute beast.
http://www.baseball-reference......html?redir
In 2008 and 2009 the Yankees have had a young, cheap, successful bullpen. The most important part? C-H-E-A-P. The Yankees could have 2-4 relievers for the price of Soriano to do the exact same job. The other awesome part? Those young guys are inter-changeable because of options and what not. Trust me, the young-cheap-internal BP option is best.
What? The bullpen in 2008 was very good. Your comment doesn’t really make any sense.
Also… Yes, Robertson is very good. In the 2009 preseason, the same way the Yanks thought guys like Edwar and Bruney would be productive cogs in their 2009 bullpen, they didn’t know that Robertson would be. So just because you don’t know who will be the productive cogs in the 2010 bullpen right now, in December 2009, is no different than last year, or the year before, when the Yankees wound up with very good bullpens. The point is to have the arms available, and they do. They’re just not named Hughes. Melancon is developing, and there are arms like Nova and McAllister and others who could possibly come up and work in relief in MLB later in the season. Marte, for that matter, came over the Yankees midseason in 2008. You can (and should) find these guys, internally and on the market, during the season. Dedicating resources to them when those resources could be used elsewhere (especially when you’re seemingly trying to shrink your payroll a bit) doesn’t make much sense or fit the operating philosophy.
I think you just can’t get past the idea that going into the season you might not know who will be in the bullpen come August, but that’s the way they’ve done it the last couple of years and it has worked very well. If they didn’t have the arms available in MLB and MiLB to make it worthwhile there might be a problem, but they do have plenty of arms to try out in the MLB bullpen.
Oh yeah… re: Soriano… I get why people are interested, but I just think the guy is too expensive.
Here’s my thoughts on Soriano:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-709994
“I don’t know if it fits into the budget, if they really are trying to trim payroll to the $185M-$190M range in 2010. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the payroll right now, prior to arbitration raises, is somewhere right around $170M. Add Pettitte (about $12M maybe?) to that, plus one of the LF/DH options, and you’re getting up there. Of course they may make a trade or cut some payroll in other ways, but I don’t know… I think Soriano looks like a pretty big expense that probably doesn’t fit either (1) the budget or (2) the operating philosophy.”
or maybe they pair the pick and Gardner for a good setup man…
They could probably get a decent setup man with the draft pick.
Like… Brian Bruney.
I said decent.
But seriously, you are exactly right.
Bingo.
I’ve got a feeling this notion that we’re “shopping” the pick isn’t much. We’re shopping it, but maybe not actually selling it. We’re only shopping it to see if anyone is interested in giving us a non-25-man-obligated prospect in return for the 25-man-obligated prospect we’d be taking for ourselves in the R5.
I agree. That pick really isn’t worth very much, it’s not like Josh Hamilton is out there this year and you’ve got to deal with the 25-man roster restrictions. The idea that Cashman is some kind of genius for trading Bruney for that pick is kind of an exaggeration… I’m as big a Cashmaniac as the next guy, but the Bruney deal was a straight salary dump and getting the Rule 5 draft pick really isn’t that big a deal. Nobody’s trading anything very valuable to the Yankees for that pick.
The idea that Cashman is some kind of genius for trading Bruney for that pick is kind of an exaggeration…
Meh, if we turn 27 year old, 2M salaried flawed but talented fireballing reliever Brian Bruney into, say, 22 year old, 400k salaried flawed but talented fireballing reliever Arquimedes Caminero (or something like that), that’s a pretty savvy, geniusesque move.
Same risk, better upside, less money, and yes, he’s locked into the 25 man roster all year, but so was Bruney, and after the year (if we keep him) he can go back to the farm and continue working on that upside.
Eh, I hear you, but agree to disagree on this one. It’s a smart move as a salary dump, but I really don’t think it’s nearly as geniusesque as you guys do. I don’t think turning a 27 yr old, $2M, talented but flawed fireballing MLB reliever into a 22 year old, $400k talented but flawed fireballing reliever who has only pitched about 68 innings in the US and has never pitched above A ball (and who will be lost if he’s not on the 25-man roster for the entire season) is really a stroke of genius… It’s a salary dump. There are plenty of things to praise Cashman for, I just think this one is pretty low on that list.
It would be nice to get a Starting Pitcher prospect to include in a Doc Halladay deal.
http://raoworld.files.wordpres.....mplied.jpg (safe)
Melky for IPK?
+1
Maybe as a piece for Rafael Soriano? The Braves could pick up a decent bat at minimal cost. Cash could surprise us yet again.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....DE67ZKPWkN
What happened with the Pettite thread? Why are the comments closed there? Or am I missing something?
They signed him, so Mike/Joe/Ben are probably making a full post on it.
If they don’t trade the pick, Yahoo’s Steve Henson says the Yankees could use it on pitcher Arquimedes Caminero.
cliffs on this guy?
Arquimedes Caminero, rhp
Age: 22 Level: Low A-Double-A
Caminero is a pure fireballer, armed with an explosive 95-98 mph fastball and a mid-80s slider. That combination makes him death on righthanders. His big (6-4) frame is conducive to starting, but Caminero’s aggressiveness, inconsistency, and lack of a third pitch make him a prime bullpen candidate. Working out of the ‘pen would also get him moving quicker, as he’s 22 and has pitched sparingly above short-season ball. Caminero needs to overcome astounding control deficiencies (nearly 6 BB/9 this year over 40 IP–compared to 13.5 K/9), but he has the scorching stuff to make an impact. His name definitely won’t hurt (Arquimedes Euclides Caminero).
I’m on board… obviously.
Who would win in a fight?
Arquimedes Caminero or Archimedes the owl from The Sword and the Stone movie…
doesnt seem like the guy stat wise theyd want on the 25 man roster
The No. 8 prospect this summer in the New York-Penn League, Caminero has one of the best arms available with premium arm strength, producing fastballs in the 95-98 mph range with explosive life up in the strike zone. Caminero’s slider was a second plus pitch at times, with mid-80s velocity and inconsistent depth. He has issues holding runners, but the biggest issue is that he’s pitched parts of two seasons in the U.S. after two years in the Rookie-level Dominican Summer League, and the 22-year-old still has made just 13 appearances out of short-season ball. However, Jorge Sosa made a similar leap with even less pitching experience, going from the short-season Northwest League in 2001 to the big leagues in 2002 as a Rule 5 pick.
Meh, with Bruney and Coke now gone, we’ve got room for him in the pen.
1- Mo
2- Marte
3- Robertson
4- Aceves
5- Gaudin
6- ________ (Melancon? Dunn?)
7- ________ (Caminero?)
i’m always down with plus plus arms
Cornbread… ain’t nothing wrong with that.
Maybe they take him to spin elsewhere.