Dec
11

Yanks, Damon still worlds apart in negotiations

By

In his blog today, Buster Olney writes that the Yankees and free agent Johnny Damon are still very far apart in negotiations, mostly because Scott Boras is sticking to the idea of a four year deal. Olney points out that only one free agent (Chone Figgins) has gotten a deal that long this offseason, and I’ll point out that Boras was looking for seven years the last time Damon was free agent. The pickup of Curtis Granderson allows the Yanks to put some pressure on Damon, however it doesn’t look like there will be an agreement made anytime soon.

Meanwhile, Mark Feinsand mentions that Hideki Matsui is willing to accept a one year deal. I love Godzilla, but I’m happy he’s accepted that that’s the best offer he’s going to get at this point in his career. The Yanks may only have about $14M left to spend this offseason, so there might not be room for both of Damon and Matsui.

Categories : Asides
  • Evil Empire

    Reality, Damon, still worlds apart in negotiations.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    TWO MEN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVES!
    TWO MEN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVES!

    • Esteban

      Is Matsui Mad Max then?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Assistant GM Jean Afterman: Tina Turner

        • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Shelley Duncan: Blaster

  • DP

    Offer him 5/100. What is it with you people and budgets? You spend thousands of dollars on the team every year. Do you really care how much they spend on players? Does it really matter to you? Its the YANKEES. If they go the strict LF route, they are going to trade for Grady Sizemore and put Granderson in LF. Everyone on here sucks!

    /Inevitable Bo logic we’re headed for

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      BANGWAGON

      • DP

        If you say so, Eric. Oh snap I called you your real name! Loooooser!

        • DP

          P.S. I originally thought he thought that was funny because only he knew it and you guys went to high school (it still wasn’t). Then I realized the link was to your twitter, blatantly there for all to see. I stand by my theory that Axisa has created a villain for us all to mock.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            It’s not like I’m hiding what my real name is or something. Perfectly available for all to see, if they’re so inclined.

            • Bo

              Not caring what someone is paid and paying someone obscenely esp for length are two completely different things you know.

              Paying him 13 or 15 for 1 yr is a little different than paying him 54 for 4.

              But hey when you can get Mike Cameron for 10 u gotta do it!

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                Mike Cameron for 10M >>>>>> Johnny Damon for 13 or 15M

                Book it. Cameron outproduced Damon last year, he can do it again this year.

    • Bo

      But seriously DP if you want to have a discussion thats fine.

      Does it really affect you or anyone here with how much the Yankees spend on players?

      Would giving Damon 50 million for 1 yr really damage u?

      If they paid him 1 mill dou honestly think they would lower prices or anything??

      No ones privy to their books. Id much rather see the team spend their revenue rather than pocket it like other teams. Be grateful the team understands that business concept, bud. Even Eric with his far left views semi understands that.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Even Eric with his far left views semi understands that.

        FACT: Nancy Pelosi and I regularly engage in disgusting, amoral sex play games. Her safe-word is “conference committee”.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          you know eric, the thing i like about you is you’re so far to the left and i’m so far to the right…we’re standing next to each other.

          now hand me the machine gun and give me some leather gloves…

          oh, and to stay on topic, NO, we just dont need JD anymore…sorry dude, but that boat sailed.

          the market for Yankee DH’s is 5-7.5M, one year. yes you can have it if you sign now, no you can’t have it if Matsui signs first…i was totally for a 2 year deal avg 8-10 before, but now we have Granderson, and Melky/Gardener/Hoffman can all play left field, so, um…kthxbai.

          For all sorts of reasons, I would love to see the Yanks save a little $ here…if nothing else, it helps to hide the ostentatious nature of this business in an economically challenged time. We don’t need Damon a little less than we don’t need Doc…arguing over how much we don’t need him is like arguing which extra bullpen arm is 5th or 6th on the depth chart, or which of 2 4th OF’s actually gets to play LF today.

          IT.DOESNT.MATTER.

          but…since its still december…lets argue until the catchers/pitchers report timer gets put up on RAB.

          i say melky.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    If Matsui takes the one year deal and Damon won’t after another round of negotiations, sign Matsui, and (as much as I don’t want to do this) maybe roll with Melky in LF at least to start the year. Having a strong DH bat like Matsui to back up his lack of offense out of LF would be good.

    • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Yeah… Depending on what’s available on the pitching market (whether it’s someone like Sheets or non-tendered relievers, etc.), financial flexibility seems to be a pretty huge concern at this point, especially with the payroll already so close to the supposed limit.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Thirded.

        Matsui the DH, with an OF of Melky-Granderson-Swisher with Gardner/Hoffman in reserve isn’t that bad. I also wonder if we’d do that, then just stand pat (outside of minor league rehab lottery tickets for guys like Escobar/Wang/Lowry/etc.) and sit on the payroll flexibility to see what shakes loose midseason.

        Maybe we’re short an outfield bat, but some non-contender wants to get out from the last few million on a bat they don’t need. Like, I dunno, Eric Byrnes bounces back and starts hitting, and we buy out the last half of his expiring 11M salary for a non-prospect. Or, Juan Cruz from the Royals. Something like that.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          matsui counters grander’s light-lefty-hitting weakness. He’s cheaper than most other alternatives. he does add marketing dollars, which does affect the overall budget (not just payroll, but everything).

          i bet hoffman or melky or gardener or another a/aa/aaa guy or some payroll dump will be hitting well enough that we can add later if we have to…grander’s defense should make everyone else’s defense better, and that should save us some runs. arod’s early arrival should get us some runs. posada’s health (mo be praised) should add more runs.

          you are all distracted by the real need here, bs’ing about LF’ers…BRING.BACK.MOLINA.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Nah, screw JoMo.

            It’s all about Navarro now.

    • Steve H

      I’d rather go the Cameron and cheap DH route. Unless Matsui signs for $5 million, I reluctantly pass. He’s no guarantee to remain healthy, even as just a DH. If one of the many DH types can be had for $2-$3 million, I’m taking that guy+Cameron. Matsui’s health carries as much or more risk then a lot of the other guys out there.

      • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Who do you think they can sign for $2-$3M?

        • Steve H

          Me. Cust. Maybe Delgado/Thome? Gomes if he’s non-tendered? Baldelli (for less). I just think if you sign a DH cheap, and he doesn’t work out, he’s easily replaceable. If you sign Matsui for $8-9 million and he gets hurt, he’s still easily replaceable, but you’ve spent 3-4 times as much.

          • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            As discussed below, I really don’t think you’re getting a Delgado or a Thome for $3M. It’ll probably take at least double that. Obviously we’ll see, this is just speculation… I just don’t think Delgado/Thome’s prices are going to be that much lower than Matsui’s. I’m not saying these guys are going to get $10M again, but $2-$3M is unrealistic, in my mind.

            Cust, Gomes, etc… Sure. But those guys are fallbacks, they’re in a different class of players than the Matsui/Thome/Delgado class.

          • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

            Hell, come July Jorge Vasquez may be DHing in the Bronx.

      • Doug

        gimme thome for that $2-$3M. he still can mash, esp. against righties

        • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          That would be nice. I’d also like to sign Sheets for $3M. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Could that happen, though? Do we really think those guys are gonna take $2MM-3MM? If you can get Cameron and (Johnson, Delgado, Thome, etc.) for ~$10MM, definitely do it. Not sure if it’ll happen, but it’d be awesome.

        • Doug

          no way johnson gets < $3M because he still plays a pretty good 1B. and probably not delgado either for the same reason; well, he can fake it at least. thome, however, cannot. i see a small contract in his future.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Cameron and Thome? Yes please.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              BUT THEY’RE OLD!!! AND TEH STRIKEOUTS!!!!1!!

              LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                WordUpThome: UNFORTUNATELY MACARONI COMES IN BUT ONE SHADE

            • Doug

              seconded

            • Steve H

              3rd’d.

          • Evil Empire

            If Damon doesn’t work out, Cameron/Thome is acceptable.

            Shit, if Damon DOES work out, Thome would be great.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Damon
              Thome
              Granderson
              Cano
              +
              Gardner

              That’s a lot of lefties. Not horrible, but, it’s a lot. Last year, we only had 3 lefties in the everyday lineup (Damon, Matsui, Cano), and Matsui hit lefties well.

              Oh, and, Melky the switch hitter doesn’t hit lefties well either.

              FWIW. Pretty much all the DH candidates are lefties, so, if we add one of those, I don’t know how keen I am on adding Damon as well.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                Thome’s career split isn’t all that great either (.763 as opposed to 1.043 vs. RHP).

                Delgado, FWIW, has an .806 OPS vs. LHP.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  That’s what I’m saying.

                  From the current Granderson/Gardner/Cano lefties under contract, and the Damon/Matsui/Thome/Delgado/Cust lefties on the market, Matsui’s the only one who really handles lefties well.

                  That’s a big feather in his cap.

        • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          I don’t know… I know the market has been down the last couple of years, but I think we get carried away thinking we can get all these guys on the (very) cheap.

          2009 salaries:
          Cameron: $10M
          Delgado: $12M
          Thome: $13M

          Are these guys going to take a salary cut? Yes. But they’re probably not signing for $2M.

          • Doug

            griffey did

            • Steve H

              Griffey was completely terrible last year.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                And the year before that.

              • Doug

                true, okay so maybe thome gets a bit more. like tommie said below, probably about $5M

            • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Griffey is awful and if he didn’t play in Seattle he’d have to pay a team to let him play.

            • Bo

              How is Griffey even comparable here??

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            I’ll take a stab at it:

            Cameron: $10M – 2010 salary: $8.5M
            Delgado: $12M – 2010 salary: $4M
            Thome: $13M – 2010 salary: $5M

            • king of fruitless hypotheticals

              strawman alert, but just put up with it please–

              thome will play for 38% of his salary, but CMW won’t resign for $1.9M?

          • Steve H

            Probably not, though Delgado is coming off a serious injury, so he might come cheap (+ incentives for ab’s or something like that). But in the grand scheme, I still say Cust+Cameron>>>>>>Matsui, as at most it would only cost a few more dollars and fill two spots.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Cust’s had big negative trendlines for three years, though.

              • Steve H

                Yeah I know, and that’s a huge concern. But he’s only 31, and he’s been playing in Oakland with a pisspoor surrounding cast. In YSIII with this lineup around him a bounceback wouldn’t be surprising, and if he sucks, it won’t be too much money to just eat and make a trade.

            • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Just say no to Cust. He’s been trending steadily, and relatively precipitously, downward.

              • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

                Still, he slugs the shit out of Right-Handers and can get on base at a respectable clip.

                • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Sounds like… Possibly… Juan Miranda.

                  Cust has some value, for sure… I just don’t know that I ever want to see him in pinstripes.

                • Steve H

                  He’s also been swinging a lot more pitches as the seasons have gone by, both in and out of the strikezone. This could be (and I hate to sound like Jim Rice) because he’s been hitting in RBI spots, and been more relied on as a middle of the order bad. In NY, he’d be hitting towards the bottom, which could bring back his patience. He was primarily hitting 3-4-5 this year.

                • Doug

                  .830 OPS vs. righties last year. me, i’d rather have thome and his .897 (CHW only)

                • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

                  Yeah true. I’ve never even really considered Cust but if he’s on the cheap, it would be interesting. Anytime you bring a lefty slugger into YS3, you’ve got a shot at some serious numbers.

      • pollo

        +1 for Cameron + 2 million DH

    • vin

      If Matsui re-signs, then this is essentially the same team as last year with Curtis replacing Damon (more pop, less OBP).

    • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

      I don’t understand some people saying Melk doesn’t have the bat for LF. In a vacuum yes, he’s not your typical lf bat. On our team, he’s the 9 hitter. The way I see it, we’re way ahead of the game.

      • Steve H

        He’s not ideally a LF bat, but yeah, if your CF is Granderson, who has a LF type bat, isn’t it the same?

        If you put Melky in CF and Grandy in LF, would it make more sense, would it be more aesthetically pleasing? It’d be the same two guys, in the same batting spots, but they run out to the field a little differently.

        My only concern is that Melky regresses, as long as he’s league average we’re good.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Furthermore:

        Melky doesn’t have the bat for LF because he’s only a 10-15 homer guy. But, our presumptive centerfielder (Granderson) might hit 35 homers in 2009, from CF.

        Between the two, we’ve got one corner bat (playing center ) and one center bat (playing in a corner). It’s a wash.

        • Bo

          But why not have an exceptional OF and have a big bat in LF in addition to CF?

          why being average for avg sake because one guy at a position out performs his pos norm?

          Should they have stuck with an avg 1b because Jeter is above avg at SS??

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            None of those questions have anything to do with what anybody is saying, Robert Grant.

            You FAIL as usual.

      • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I’ve never been a big Melky fan, but I agree with this. This idea that a player doesn’t have a typical corner outfield bat, so he can’t play there on this team, is myopic. The Yankees are going to get about 50 HRs from their second baseman and center fielder in 2010. They can certainly have a 12-15 HR bat in LF, no problem.

        I make this comparison not to say that ‘since it worked in the 90s, it’s the right way to do it’ or anything like that… But look at the left fielders on the dynasty teams. Just because a player isn’t a prototypical bat for his position doesn’t mean he doesn’t fit at that position on any given baseball team.

        • DP

          I agree with the basic premise. But there is a reason we spent the 90s cycling through LFs like Tiger cycles through women.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            But there is a reason we spent the 90s cycling through LFs like Tiger cycles through women.

            Would Ricky Ledee be the Perkins waitress?

          • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Oh I’m not saying they should rest on their laurels just because they can get away with a sub-standard left fielder, of course they should always be looking to upgrade. All I’m saying is that this concept that a guy can’t fill that position just because he’s not what most people consider the prototypical left fielder is wrong. You have to look at the particular team, not some imaginary standard.

  • Doug

    in the end, damon will end up signing a 2 year deal for a penny more than abreu signed for (just because)

  • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

    I’d give em 4 years. 4/20.

    If JD doesn’t get Boras on a leash he is going to be playing somewhere in a baseball oblivion.

    I just want a DH, whether it’s JD, Dek or even some of the other DH types that are out there. Our OF is great right now. We just need a hitter. If he can play the OF occasionally it’s even better but in no way is it a necessity.

    • Colombo

      There is no way JD gets 4 years from anyone. He’s a liability in the field at this point, and, aside from YS3, his bat is pedestrian.

  • Steve H

    Even if Conor Jackson isn’t non-tendered, that fact that it’s a possibility tells you something about what the D-Backs are thinking. What would he cost in a trade, I wouldn’t think it would be too much. He can play LF against LHP as he has ops’d .866 in his career against LHP.

    • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      I hear you and there’s a lot to like about Conor Jackson, but I really don’t think he’s as available as you think. His name appeared on these possible non-tender lists because they were worried about his health, but apparently he’s killing it in winter ball and the D-Backs are excited to get him back, healthy.

  • PaaakmaaaN

    I just want the Yankees to get either Damon or Matsui cheap:)

  • E-ROC

    I like Mike Cameron more at this point. The outfield defense would be improved with Cameron in center and Granderson in left field. The Yankees could sign a non-tendered player for the DH like Ryan Garko or Jonny Gomes. Each of those players would get the playing time that they may covet.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      You’re on the shitlist.

      /SalBoGrantLanny’d

    • pollo

      Co-signed, co-signed.

      SIGN CAMERON!

    • Bo

      They didnt trade for Granderson to move him to LF.

  • Mike bk

    If we have 14 mil officially a combo of Matsui and Cameron is easily done because it shouldnt cost more than 16-18, melky and his upcoming 3 mil gets dealt and you end up around 15 mil.

  • mike c

    Damon/Matsui + Sheets. Do it!

    • Mike RI

      I agree 1000%. Damon/Matsui + Sheets !. We’d be about as complete as you can get.

  • Mike bk

    “Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says Damon seeks three years, $39MM or four years, $52MM, while the Yanks are at two years, $19MM (Bobby Abreu’s contract).”

    Boras must have some set of brass balls.

  • Bo

    The Yankees and Damon will work out a nice 2 yr deal with a club option. He’ll go back to being the best #2 hitter in the league and the guy perfect for this lineup. He’ll play LF for 90 or so games and DH the rest.

    And Mike Cameron can enjoy playing in Wrigley Field. Even though we may have a day of mourning here.

    • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      If the Yankees sign Cameron, are you going to root against him just because you don’t like the people who want the Yankees to sign him? It really seems, at this point, like your aversion to Cameron has as much or more to do with a personal grudge than it does with baseball. All these guys here can vouch for the fact that I was probably the first one to raise concerns about Cameron, so I’m not killing you just because I like Cameron (which I do) and you don’t… But I think you need to take a step back and keep things in perspective and engage the issue instead of engaging the other commenters here.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        i didnt see that, i think we need to lighten up on him (engage the issue instead of other commenters)…

        why are we bidding against ourselves? we need to set a deadline, and let it be known publicly we need one more bat, and our best options right now are X, Y and Z, and our budget only allows for $ABC Millions, and our flexibility only offers LMN years. The first player/agent team to prove they can do algebra gets a contract.

        It’s not the Yankee way, but i feel like the Yankees undervalue being A YANKEE as part of their negotiations…

        • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          “i didnt see that, i think we need to lighten up on him (engage the issue instead of other commenters)…”

          Fair enough, but the point is that Bo seems to attach his feelings about Cameron to his feelings/dislike of commenters… He seems to dislike Cameron, at least in part, because he dislikes people who like Cameron, whereas I don’t think anyone likes Cameron because they dislike Bo.

  • dkidd

    damon 2/20 or cameron 1/10?

    i go with damon (barely) because he fits so nicely in the 2 spot

    i have no problem with melky as the starting lf, but posada’s catching 120 games max, so that’s 40+ games with melky and movelli in the line-up

    • dkidd

      assuming we don’t sign another outfielder

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        as compared to last year, with some much larger number of games with molina and melky/gardener in the line up?

        • dkidd

          not saying we can’t win with 2 low ops guys in the line-up, just reminding that melky won’t always be hitting ninth

  • steve s

    While asking for 4 years sounds pretty absurd and no sane team should give him that amount of years, Damon does have a fairly good chance to reach 3,000 hits if he plays 4 more years which, in turn, punches his ticket to the HOF. Perhaps a creative way of dealing with this is to offer him a 4 year deal with buyouts at the end of each year that kick-in or not based on performance related criteria. If he is washed-up after one or 2 Yanks can cut their losses; if he is still performing the Yanks have cornered the market on the next 3, 3,000 hit guys (with Arod and Jeter) and you can add another Yankee HOF plaque and retired number to the list.

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