Yanks still exploring the Halladay possibility

Yanks, Pettitte agree on one year, $11.75M deal
Winter Meetings Live Chat (Take Two)

“Pitching, pitching, pitching — and left field.” Whenever we’re talking about potential Yankees moves, we’ll refer back to that mantra from Cashman. He made the team’s priorities clear on Day 1 of the Winter Meetings, and with the reported signing of Andy Pettitte and trade for Curtis Granderson, we can see he’s serious. There are multiple instances of “pitching” in that mantra, though, meaning the Yankees aren’t done strengthening their 2010 pitching staff, whether that be through free agency or a trade.

The biggest name on the trade market, of course, is Roy Halladay, and the Yankees continue to monitor the situation. Joel Sherman likens the situation to Mark Teixeira. Last year, after signing CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, Cashman had to convince ownership to expand payroll for Teixeira. His arguments were strong, and obviously ownership eventually agreed. If Cashman really wants to add Halladay for 2010, he’ll have to come up with an even stronger case.

Sherman notes two points on Teixeira that won over Hal Steinbrenner last winter. First was the swing from the Red Sox to the Yankees. Teixeira was clearly the Sox’s top target, and to lure him away would not only improve the Yankees, but hurt the Sox. It’s not smart to make moves just because of your rival, however, and that’s the basis for the second point. The Yankees would eventually need another bat, and Teixeira appeared to be the best not only in 2009, but for years to come. Those points, unfortunately, won’t play as well with Halladay.

Yes, the Red Sox are involved on Halladay, but it doesn’t appear they’re as serious as they were on Teixeira. That could change in the next few days or weeks, but Theo Epstein has indicated that the next year or two are part of a “bridge period,” which could mean that the Sox won’t make an enormous splash. Again, this could all be posturing and could change at any time. But as it stands now, the Sox are not as serious players for Halladay as they were for Teixeira.

To the second point, the Yankees might, at some point in the near future, need to add another big arm. Future free agent markets, however, could feature a number of them. Halladay himself, in fact, could be a free agent at the end of next season. A number of other arms could hit the market as well, so the Yankees certainly could find that big arm without sacrificing prospects. Plus, if Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes takes a step forward this season, the need for a big arm will be reduced.

Cashman’s trump card this year, should he choose to play it, is the dominance factor. A rotation of Sabathia, Halladay, Burnett, Pettitte, and Chamberlain/Hughes would be the league’s best. Even if they lost one of those five to injury, they would still be in decent shape. Then, as Sherman notes, when they get to the playoffs they wouldn’t have to start anyone of short rest. Pettitte would be an excellent fill-in for Game 4s. In that sense, the Yankees could justify expanding payroll for Halladay.

Yet payroll is not the only consideration. The Blue Jays will not give away Halladay. It will cost plenty in prospects. If the Yankees are so inclined, the Blue Jays have great interest in Jesus Montero. He is the Yankees top prospect, and his loss would be even tougher because the Yankees just traded their second best prospect, Austin Jackson. Will the Yankees trade one of the top five hitting prospects in the game, even for Roy Halladay, even when their next best hitting prospect isn’t nearly as good?

Further complication the issue is how the Blue Jays view Montero. He’s still a catcher, and figures to start 2010 at that position in either AA or AAA if he stays with the Yankees. According to Sherman, however, the Blue Jays view him as a first baseman, and accordingly wouldn’t accept him as the center piece of a deal. This seems like posturing to me — an attempt to get even more out of the Yankees. Most of the reporters covering the trade assume that the Yankees would have to package Hughes or Chamberlain with Montero to acquire Halladay. I just don’t see that.

Best pitcher in baseball or not, Halladay is under contract for only one more year, at a slightly below open market salary. The Blue Jays have a right to demand two top flight players for him, but, because you never get more than what you ask, they’re going to start high. As they continue talking to teams, I think that price will come down. Montero himself will not get it done, but Montero and a lesser pitcher might. This, of course, depends on offers from other teams, but the general idea is that no team will come close to a Montero/Chamberlain package.

Over the past few days, the Angels have emerged as a Halladay suitor. The latest report has them willing to trade Erick Aybar, a player they considered untouchable in July. They’ve since traded prospect Sean Rodriguez and lose Chone Figgins to free agency, though, so they’d be suffering a huge hit by losing Aybar — it could lead to a left side of the infield featuring Brandon Wood and Miguel Tejada. But even with Aybar, the Angels don’t appear to have an adequate pitcher. Reports have mentioned Joe Saunders, but he’s arbitration eligible and not a top flight starter. The Jays, knowing their position in the AL East, want young, controllable, high-ceiling players. Saunders and Aybar likely won’t cut it.

If the Angels don’t have what the Blue Jays seek, if the Red Sox want to build with young players over the next two years, and if the Dodgers’ ownership situation precludes any big payroll additions, the Yankees are in a good position on Halladay. He still won’t come cheap, but it’s doubtful he’ll cost Montero and Hughes/Chamberlain. That should make the Yankees a bit more flexible in dealing for him. I still doubt they do it, but given their position compared to other teams, the chance is there if they want it.

Yanks, Pettitte agree on one year, $11.75M deal
Winter Meetings Live Chat (Take Two)
  • http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/madamsteph/Sports/alg_melky.jpg Drew

    Probably just some gamesmanship from Cash. If he keeps Jesus in the fold, the BlueJays will be inclined to ask for similar pieces from other teams. I think us trading for Doc is already out the window.

    • Evil Empire

      I hope you’re right, that it is gamesmanship, that does make sense. He could light a fire under the rest of the leagues’ ass and make competition do some stupid things.

      I’d pass on this if it took one of Joba/Hughes. If Yankees think Montero is destined for 1B and they can make a package surrounding Montero +, I’d trust that Cashman knows more than I do and he made the right move.

      That said, purely in a vacuum, Joe P is totally right that CC/Doc/AJ/Andy/Joba or Hughes would be fucking ridiculous. I mean … shit. That would easily be the best since 2003.

      • Stryker

        i really hope you’re right. i know it’s the yankees’ mantra that the farm system is more for trade chips/plugging holes/building bullpens than it is to develop average-above average baseball players, but losing jesus montero would be a huge blow to the farm system. it would probably make our top prospects zach mcallister and austin romine. not that those guys aren’t bad to have in the system, but man. that’s rough.

      • theyankeewarrior

        That would be the best since ever

  • Accent Shallow

    I’ll pass on Halladay, unless the Jays are willing to take a package similar to what the Mets gave up for Santana.

  • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

    As opposed as I was to trading for Halladay before the Granderson trade, I’m even more opposed to it now. For all the reasons we’ve all cited in the past, as well as the fact that I don’t want the farm emptied this offseason.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    Only way I’m doing a trade at most is ZMac, Nova and Romine which most likely won’t happen so I still pass.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD


    • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

      McCallister, Nova, and Montero/Hughes/Joba would be my max.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        McCallister, Nova, and Montero/Hughes/Joba would be my max.

    • Steve H

      I’d even throw in the 1st pick in the Rule 5 draft. But yeah, if Joba/Hughes/Montero needs to go to make a deal, pass.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    • http://www.kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      I’ve never seen that. That’s fantastic.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        I give because I love.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Do. Not. Trade. Montero.

    • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

      Can you imagine losing Jackson and Montero in the same offseason?


      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        If they lost Montero for Josh Johnson or King Felix, yeah, sure, okay. If it’s for Halladay? Tears.

        • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves


        • http://WayneD WayneD

          I agree that having Doc would be great, but I hate giving up Montero even more.

          I’ve read stories where other team’s scouts say he could hit 40 homers or more at the MLB level this year. His downside, so far, is his defensive; but Piazza’s defense was never good as a catcher & he’s going to the HOF.

          Now, one last time (hopefully) on Josh Johnson: NO!!! He isn’t as good as his stats, as PROVEN by the following (see the arrows, >, in particular):

          All this talk about JJ’s WAR and projected dollar value is bull. Johnson pitches in the NL, which basically has little or no hitting, outside of Phillie.

          And here’s the proof: Phillie, the only honest to god great hitting team in the NL, DESTROYED the supposedly great Johnson, as outlined below:

          > Werth, hit .268 for the year, but hit .375 against JJ.

          > Rollins hit .250 last year, but hit .308 against JJ.

          > Howard hit .279 last year, but hit .333 with 2 HRs & 7 RBIs against JJ (Super Impressive, huh?).

          > 9 Phillies hit between .500 and .273 (!) against Johnson, and only one really good hitter (Ibanez) didn’t hit him well.

          > As a team, Phillie hit .288 (again, real impressive, huh?) with 4 HRs, 6 doubles & 1 triple in 156 ABs.

          Want more evidence?

          > Lance Berkman hit .500 against him with 1 double & 1 HR in 6 ABs.

          > Carlos Lee, 1 HR in 2 ABs

          > Pujols hit .333 with 1 HR in 9 ABs

          > Fielder hit .300 with a 3B (I didn’t even think that was possible, given his heft)

          > Jim Thome saw him 1 AB, went “Um-Um, give me some of that” and promtly hit a 3-run HR against him.

          I’m completely underwhelmed by JJ! His 3.23 era last year, and lifetime 3.40 era translate into an approximately 4.25 to 4.60 era in the AL East.

          He’s a 2 pitch pitcher (67% fastballs, 25 sliders). Boston will kick his butt from NYC to Maine once they’ve seen him a couple of outings & realize he has 2 freakin pitches, with one being their favorite: a fastball.

          The bottom line is this: good hitters will kick the crap out of a 2-pitch pitcher, even at 95 mph: this guy is no better than Joba or Hughes at this point! And you guys want to give up Joba & montero for him, plus more prospects?

          Stop relying on WAR & all of those supposedly scientific methods of studying players when you’re looking at an NL pitcher or hitter. Overall, the talent in the NL is somewhere between AAA and the Kansas City Royals. (The WAR adjustment between the NL & AL is artificially low.)

          And the Yankees would have to be INSANE to trade Montero for anybody less than King Felix.

          Montero might end up being one of the best hitting catchers in the game, and I recently read that his defense is much underrated. Let’s also not forget that Jorge was never a great catcher, but his bat helped us win 5 WS. So, maybe Montero can do the same.

  • Rod

    As great as Doc is, he’s about to be 33 years old. How many elite seasons can he have left?

    • steve (different one)

      4? 5?

  • charlespoet

    I would like to request that the phrase “kick the tires” be used in every article, every paragraph for the remainder of the off-season. I only hope people are wearing steel toed boots when kicking these tires. Cliches are the way to go.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      In addition to kicking the tires, can we also light the fires?

      Captain Jimmy Wilder, USMC

      http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/harry_connick_jr_1.jpg (safe)

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        My day. It has been made.

      • Rose

        Ranch Wilder: You can’t fire me! I have got a contract! I AM RANCH WILDER!

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    Cashman To-Do winter list

    1.) Put Joba and Hughes back in the rotation, thus strengthening it dramatically
    2.) Add a quality outfielder to replace Johnny Damon
    3.) Bring back Pettitte to complete the solid 2010 rotation
    4.) Add Cameron for LF (thus benching Gardbrera)
    5.) Add a DH on a short-term deal
    6.) Sign a lottery ticket or two for pitching depth (like Escobar)
    7.) Go home, have some steaks and blowjobs
    8.) Dominate in 2010
    9.) Win another title
    11.) Prank call Theo again

    • Rose

      12.) Take a dump in a paper bag and place it on Peter Gammons front steps, light on fire, then ring door bell and run behind some bushes.

      • Rose

        Speaking of Peter Gammons…he left ESPN to sign a longterm contract with NESN…so while the rest of you are saved from him…I now have to suffer 10-fold. He really LOVES the Red Sox.

        Can’t say I blame him though…he’s getting older and had a stroke…he doesn’t want to travel as much and lives on Cape Cod…good for him.

        • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

          I thought he went to the MLB network – he signed something with NESN too?

        • steve (different one)

          Speaking of Peter Gammons…he left ESPN to sign a longterm contract with NESN…

          so, in other words, no change?

        • Andy in Sunny Daytona

          He will receive 21 years of back pay from NESN for his propoganda services while at ESPN.

          • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

            best post ever on gammons Andy!

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

          I doubt Peter hangs on “longterm”, so the length of contact is not really a big deal. I bet the $ from MLB equaled his ESPN check and he gets to hang out at home more and slobber over the sox and gets a bonus check. Glad I do not have MLB network.

          Glad I do not have to hear him stuttering more than Radio Raheem did in New Jack City.

          Peter Gammons gets the left hand:

    • charlespoet

      Prank call Theo again… that is hilarious. Somehow I see the scene from Anchorman where Ron Burgandy is prank calling Veronica Corningstone

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Theo: Theo Epstien.
        Cashmeezy: This is your doctor. I have your pregnancy
        report here, and guess what. You got knocked up. You should probably get out of baseball.
        Theo: Who is this?
        Cashmeezy: This is Dr. Chim. Dr. Chim Richalds.
        Theo: Brian, is this you?
        Cashmeezy: I’m a professional doctor. You saw me. You don’t remember. We… you should move. Get out of the business.
        Theo: This is pathetic.
        Cashmeezy: You’re pathetic.
        (hangs up)

        • Rose

          [Theo then prankcalling Cashman back]

          [Ring! Ring!]

          Cashman: Hello?
          Theo: What did the black guy get on his SAT’s?
          Cashman: Huh? I don’t know, what?
          Theo: Barbecue sauce…


          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Ah, Boston.

            Come for the racism, stay for the inbreeding.

        • Thomas

          It probably be more like this:

          Cashman: Hey Theo. I was just polishing my second straight WS trophy when I saw the flag with the Red Sox name on it and I thought to myself, ‘I should really congratulate Theo on his second straight WC birth.’ So Theo, congratulations.

    • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec 105

      Haha, good stuff…and I agree with most of it, but I think I’d rather Cam in CF, Grandy (nickname?) in LF and Melky as the 4th OF over keeping Gardner, because Melky plays all 3 OF positions pretty well.

      Fav one though, #11, prank call theo…

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        but I think I’d rather Cam in CF, Grandy (nickname?) in LF

        I literally don’t care a whit about this. Flip a coin. They’re both great defensive centerfielders, either LF-CF permutation is totally fine.

        and Melky as the 4th OF over keeping Gardner, because Melky plays all 3 OF positions pretty well.

        I never said Melky wouldn’t be the 4th OF. He would be.

    • Upstate

      haha that was hilarious…

      13) send out press release accusing Pedroia of being short
      14) trade igawa to japan for cecil fielder
      15) donate WS team autographed ball to safe at home foundation
      16) bong hit
      16) prank Theo again

  • http://www.kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    Pitchers I’d give up Montero + Joba/Hughes for:

    Felix Hernandez
    Zack Greinke
    Josh Johnson

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      [end of list]

      • donttradecano

        no lincecum?

        • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

          Personally, I love Lincy. But if I’m being honest with myself, I’m scared he’s going to hurt himself.

          Not that he’s shown any signs of this, but it’s still in the back of my mind.

          • Thomas

            The other problem with Lincecum is he is going to get paid big time in arb with his two Cys. He will be much more costly for than the other three.

            I’d say you’d still have to think about doing it, but that is a key difference between him and the others.

          • Evil Empire

            I’d take Lincecum over Greinke.

            King Felix above all. All hail King Felix.

      • Rose

        Josh Johnson? Didn’t somebody list how he was projected as less valuable than Curtis Granderson yesterday? Not that it means anything…but I’m sure you wouldn’t have to put up as much for Johnson as you would for Felix…

        • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

          Well, apparently the Marlins turned down Smoak and Feliz from the Rangers for Johnson yesterday, so who knows haha.

          • Doug

            read this too. cannot believe that they truly turned this down….two top 10 prospects

            • Bo

              Dont believe every rumor u hear.

              • Will in NJ

                It was reported by both mlbtraderumors.com and espndallas. Those are two pretty damn reliable sources.

          • pete

            why would texas ever make that offer?
            as for johnson…i dunno…i can’t stop seeing brad penny when i look at him

  • Johan Iz My Brohan

    This better not happen… CC/AJ/Pettitte/Joba/Hughes is more than enough to win the division and do well in the playoffs. I’ve said this before, I will be seriously pissed off if Montero is traded, I will personally hunt Cashman down if that happens.

  • mryankee

    As much as I have pined for Halladay I was convinced yesterday that Ben Sheets would be a fine substitute. I would offer the Jays-Joba-Romine-Kmac and Melancon. If they dont take that they they can f off.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Who da fuck is Kmac?

      • mryankee

        O I meant Zmac-

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Haha, I figured.

      • Thomas

        Its Eric Wordekemper’s new nickname.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      I would offer the Jays-Joba-Romine-Kmac and Melancon. If they dont take that they they can f off.

      Senator, you can have my answer now, if you like.

      My offer is this: Nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up, personally.

      • Rose

        Dr. Mainheimer: It’s a terrible thing that’s happened here, Lieutenant. I do hope you will find the people responsible.
        Lt. Frank Drebin: I’m sorry I can’t be more optimistic, Doctor, but we’ve got a long road ahead of us. It’s like having sex. It’s a painstaking and arduous task that seems to go on and on forever, and just when you think things are going your way, nothing happens.

      • charlespoet


        • Rose

          [Drebin searches a drawer]
          Frank: Bingo!
          [pulls out a bingo card]

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

        Finally a reference from a quality film. Near classic status. Possibly classic, we need to see how it ages.

        Good work. I want Halladay on the team though.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Me too… in 2011.

  • Rose

    The chirps in the hallways are that a deal for Adrian Gonzalez WILL get done this offseason. My guess is that the Red Sox will most certainly make a heavy run for him.

    They need a big bat before they need more pitching, IMO.

    • mryankee

      I have to believe the sox would have to give up Bard-Bucholz-Kelly for a bat like Adrian Gonzalez and if so then they can have him. I would rather they get Adrian Gonzalez than Halladay.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        3 HOFers for Adrian Gonzalez?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      I call bullshit on that.

      Adrian Gonzalez will be a Padre for the entirety of the 2010 baseball season. Book it.

      • Rose

        You also have to take under consideration that the new GM for the Padres was the head of scouting for the Red Sox…so they can’t pull any fast ones on him overvaluing their prospects or anything. At least IMO.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD


        And, the same with Halladay and the Jays.

        And, I’ll renew my guarantee: Hughes and Joba will combine for at least 4.5 WAR as starters.

    • Bo

      Don’t teams like the Padres want young players at controllable costs like Gonzalez?

      Isnt that the point? Why deal him unless you are blown away and receive at least one premium pitcher?

  • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

    According to Rosenthal, he’s not even the most asked about Padre so far. I really don’t see him moving this winter.


    • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

      Reply fail. This was to Rose’s post

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Two guys who, without a doubt and despite the whims and exhortations of WEEI and NESPN, are not going any-fucking-where this winter:

        Miguel Cabrera and Adrian Gonzalez

        One more guy who may go somewhere, but probably ends up right where he is at the moment on Opening Day, 2010:

        Roy Halladay

        The last one is my hunch. The first two are my lead-pipe-lock hunches.

        • http://theyankeeway.mlblogs.com/ Keanu Reeves

          I’m in agreement on all accounts.

        • Rose

          Do you feel that Toronto feels they NEED to trade Halladay right now to get decent value for him or will they be just as happy to let him go and receive the draft picks?

          • mryankee

            If they do not trade him by spring training he will go to free agencey. They have to move him now if they will get value. They also better do it before the Yankees-Sox-Angels all make bigger moves becausethere willnot be anyone left to deal with.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Will they really get more value now, though? They could just as easily make the same mistake the Twins made and get a not-so-great package for Halladay. There’s a possibility that the two draft picks they get at the end of ’10 could end up being more valuable.

              • mryankee

                Very ballsy move to make if your Anthopolous I think he he has to hope the Angels jump in and offer a good package. He can then send him out of the AL east and his fan base might not burn down teh stadium. Of course he has to hope Halladay will go to Anaheim.

        • Steve H

          On Halladay I wouldn’t be shocked. The market for him will not develop, so they either take a small package (that’s what she said) for him and get grilled for it, or they keep him, try to (in vain) negotiate a contract with him and let him go for the 2 picks. The only possibility they trade him for $0.25 on the dollar is that it wasn’t this management team that screwed up by not trading him last year, severing limiting the package.

  • Upstate

    This is just stupid. I hope they are not serious about doing this and just driving up the price. I don’t want the sox to get em and I hope he goes to the NL. He would be better off there anyway since we know he’ll never be able to pitch in the AL East.

    Plus even if the Yankees did get him anything less than a perfect season would be considered a complete failure even if they did win the WS.

    • steve (different one)

      no, it wouldn’t. if they won the WS, in no way shape or form would the season be considered a “failure”.

      wait, who are you talking about? Halladay? Halladay won’t be able to pitch in the AL East? what did i miss?

      • Upstate

        I was talking about Halladay but I was being sarcastic

        • steve (different one)

          fail on my part.

  • mryankee

    Jayson Stark is an idiot he states that the Yankees gave up a stud prospect in Jackson. I bet they did that because they project Jacksons best case scenario to be Granderson and they drafted Heathcoat in the 1st round so in a few years you hope he can replace Ajax.

  • Steve

    I would trade Joba and a 2-3 B prospects for Halladay, but that would be my max. In this market, there aren’t many teams willing to pay the kind of money Halladay will likely get on an extension, and fewer still are willing to give up premium, cost-controlled prospects. As good as Halladay is, there should be no need to go any higher than that. Jayson Stark suggests that a package of Montero + Hughes + McAllister + another prospect might get it done, but he thinks several teams could beat that if they choose to – he must be smoking some seriously good crack. Under no circumstances would I trade either Montero or Hughes, let alone both of them PLUS for anyone not named Pujols, which let’s face it, is not happening. If Toronto demanded either Montero or Hughes, I would pass. The Yankees were the best team in baseball last season without Halladay – he’d certainly be a nice add, but not at that cost.

    • Evil Empire

      5 years of Joba > 1 year of Halladay. And the financial cost would be about equal.

    • Steve

      Sorry, not Jayson Stark, Keith Law suggested that ridiculous package I mentioned above, and the even more ridiculous proposition that such a package might not be enough. Here’s a link:


      (you may have to scroll down a little to reach Law’s Halladay/Yankees tidbit)

  • Accent Shallow

    I’m not sure I can see the Yankees trading Joba unless they’ve really soured on him. I’m sure plenty of us have a lower view of Joba than we did this time last year, but I doubt 2009 affected the Yankees’ view of him that much.

  • Chat Junkie

    wheres the chat?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      You’re feenin for it, aren’t you?

  • Kyle

    What are the odds that Cashman finaggles a deal for King Felix? Montero, Hughes/ Joba….what will it take? Is it worth it? Just curious if there are any rumors floating around out there.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      What are the odds that Cashman finaggles a deal for King Felix?


      • Rose

        In all fairness…it’s been said that the King has been looking for a 6 year deal for around $100M while Seattle has been trying to offer 4 years around $40-50M which is ridiculously far apart.

        Doesn’t mean we will get him…but it also doesn’t look like they will be settling anything any time soon…

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          If all Felix wants is a 6/100, Seattle should be leaping all over that.

          Frankly, Felix at 16.6 per is a freaking steal. That’s 7M less than Sabathia, and Felix is Sabathia’s equal.

          • Rose

            Per MLBTR – SI’s Jon Heyman believes Felix Hernandez is seeking six years and $100MM, while the Mariners are thinking four years plus an option at less than $50MM. That phrasing makes a possible divide seem larger than it is, since those last two years of the deal would be the most expensive (more than $15MM per year).


            I agree with your assessment…and I don’t understand why Seattle would be tossing all this money around to Chone Figgins, overpay Griffey, and in years past dish out ridiculous contracts to “Lionel” Richie Sexson and “Yo” Adrian Beltre…but are dogging King Felix his certainly justifiable extension?? Beats me…

  • cheddar

    Lackey + Montero > Halladay
    Lackey + Joba > Halladay
    Lackey + Hughes > Halladay

    That said, I don’t want Lackey, either.

    • Steve H



  • V

    I love how Yankee fans have turned on Joba as quickly as they turned on Hughes a year earlier (and reversed course again this season).

    Montero, Joba, and Hughes are not going anywhere.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Dumb ones, sure.

      • Steve H

        Dumb ones who want their burrito, and they want it now.

  • Ron

    If BlueJays do not trade Roy Haladay now, they might end up getting a 2nd round pick for Haladay, ie. if the yanks sign him and Joe Mauer.

  • DontChaKnow

    I would cry if the Yanks gave up Montero for Halladay. Josh Johnson I could handle, but not a guy going into his mid 30’s.

  • Bo

    If they dont think Montero is a catcher in the majors they’ll want to move him while his value is sky high. Hes not the same prospect playing 1b/DH.

    Same thing with Joba and Hughes. if they feel they are bullpen guys or back end starters they should be available too.

    • Rose
    • pete

      to be honest, he is the same prospect playing 1B/DH. In fact, I’d bet that a lot of teams would want him off catcher to preserve his legs long-term. If albert pujols weren’t a catcher, would his value go down that much?

  • toad

    I repeat my prediction. Halladay will go for much less than most expect, if he goes at all.

    • Rose

      Either way, it would still cost ONE of Joba/Hughes/Montero then.

      So you either get rid of one of the big 2 that you put so much trust in up until now…OR you fully deplete the farm system getting rid of one of the best down there.

      • toad

        I bet not.

        Look at it from the Jays’ point of view. They have him for a year, but they are not going to be contenders in 2010. After that he walks, and they get draft picks. So if they can do better than the draft picks by trading now they have to consider it.

        What about the buyers? No one is going to give up the equivalent of Joba/Hughes/Montero plus for one year of Halladay. So they are looking at an expensive extension on top of giving up players. That minimizes the willingness to give up players.

        Or, as many others have said more simply, giving up players and having to give a big contract is a bad idea. If a trade deal comes up Halladay is effectively a free agent in terms of his bargaining power. That matters.

  • http://www.sportsradiony.com Sports Radio NY

    Halladay will end up in New York… with the Mets…

    • pete

      i think you mean lackey…the mets don’t have anyone behind Martinez, and even he’s pretty far away from being an AL-East impact hitter

  • Ted Nelson

    Halladay’s deadline gives the Yanks, Sox, Mets, and any other interested teams a good reason to wait the Jays out and, in doing so, strengthen their own bargaining position. The Jays are asking for the world right now, and understandably so, but as spring training approaches they have no leverage in negotiations. You have to figure they’ll still get a good package should they decide to trade him, but probably not Montero/Hughes good.

  • http://WayneD WayneD

    When all is said & done, we might be able to get Halladay on the cheap by doing the following:

    Take Halladay & Wells’ GOD AWFUL contract for Joba or Hughes, plus Melky or Gardner and a good, but not top-flight prospect.

    Taking on Wells’ contract, which may be the worst in baseball history, is the equivalent of giving Toronto 1.5 to 2 prospects.

    Wells is due Jeter type money & he’s worth less than half that much in today’s market. He’s untradeable to anyone other than the Yankees, and his contract will prevent the Jays from doing a lot of the things they need to do to rebuild for YEARS to come.

    I bet Toronto’s ownership would drop to their knees & praise god for the chance to unload Wells, especially seeing their going to loose Doc one way or the other, anyway.

    And an outfield of Wells (LF), Granderson (CF), and Swisher (RF) can easily help us win another WS. And Wells might just rebound to his projected numbers in a lineup that includes people like A-Rod, Jeter, Tex, Grandy, Cano, and Posada. That would take a ton of pressure off a guy who knows the entire baseball world thinks he’s one of the biggest disappointments in history.

    By the by, Wells had 55 extra base hits last year, which isn’t too hard to take. But his .260 ave. doesn’t warrant his comically absurd salary.

    • CapitalT

      There is no way I would give up either Joba or Hughes if you have to take back Wells. That trade would save Tor ~ 35M. Like you said, taking Wells is like giving them 1-2 prospects. I would put Granderson and a AA prospect to take that package back (1 year of Doc and the albatros called Wells’ contract)

      • http://WayneD WayneD

        CapitalT, I agree I wouldn’t want to trade Hughes in a Doc package, but I wouldn’t hesitate to include Joba. Everyone’s opinion on Joba is as valid as mine at this point, but I don’t think he’s going to achieve the level of excellence we all thought.

        Of course, we’re all just guessing what he’s going to do in the future, but there’s no proof he’s going to be more than a 4 or 5 starter.

        Potential is not proof, and until he proves he can through 94-95 mph for 6-innings (which he hasn’t come close to doing), all you can say is he has potential . . . and you can say the same thing about approx. 5,000 guys in baseball history who never achieved their perceived potential.

        So, I would trade Joba in a package for Doc. But not Hughes . . . and you’d be right in saying the same potential storyline applies to Hughes. I just personally believe Hughes is more likely to come close to his projections.

        But again, unless one of us is a deity in disguise, neither of us (or Cashman, for that matter) knows for sure.

        After all, Phillie fans were pissed off some years ago when they traded a good pitcher named Short (I believe it was), for someone who hadn’t yet realized his potential. That “someone” now resides in the Hall of Fame. His name is Steve Carlton. So, you never know about potential; its always a crap shoot.

        Short’s career, by the way, largely followed his last name, especially when compared to Carlton’s mega career.

        • pete

          see: Joba Chamberlain, June-July, 2008.
          consistently 95-96 on the FB, topping out at 98-99. When joba is on his game he is absolutely dominant. He was rarely on his game this year, but this year was a year of adjustment. If by the end of 2010, he hasn’t started to hit that potential then we’ll talk (and not if he tires as he approaches 180 innings, b/c it wouldn’t make sense for him not to). But as of right now, Joba is every bit as good a prospect as he was last year

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      When all is said & done, we might be able to get Halladay on the cheap by doing the following:

      Really? That’s awesome, tell me more, I want to hear how we can get Halladay on the cheap.

      Take Halladay & Wells—


  • Pingback: Getting Granderson = No Halladay? | The iYankees Blog - A New York Yankees Blog

  • Dollar

    Joe, Love this website but just one thing about your Halladay post…..Burnett not Andy would make a good #4 fill-in in the playoffs. Until he proves otherwise,Andy gets the ball in big games. If they were to get Halladay,Burnett would be the #3 regular season but Andy’s the #3 come playof time!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Sorry man. I just don’t see Pettitte getting the ball ahead of Burnett. Unless Burnett has a horrible 2010, that is.

  • Jordan

    Heyman says Jays lastest demand is Joba/Hughsie + Montero + “more”

    Thanks for wasting Cashman’s text messages, Alex.

    • Mike bk

      but it’s heyman so we all know it is probably made up anyway. since he is the one who said detroit wanted hughes and a-jax for granderson.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Someone should create a fake Heyman Twitter account with crazy trade info.

        • Mike bk

          why the real one already does it?

      • http://pinstripepalace.blogspot.com/ Brien Jackson

        That’s not mutually exclusive though. It’s entirely possible that the Tigers “wanted” Hughes and AJax, but were willing to do the deal for less. So the question isn’t what Toronto “wants,” it’s what they’re willing to settle for.

        • Greg

          Speaking sense there. I’m sure det asked for Hughes n montero too

  • http://WayneD WayneD

    For you guys that are worried about Grandy’s admitted problems with lefties, keep two things in mind:

    1) In four full seasons, Grandy has had 59, 84, 61, and 61 extra base hits, and he has 284 of them in less than 4.5 years. And he’s a lifetime .272 hitter, despite his .247 ave. last year.

    To give you an idea how good that is, Miguel Cabrera’s numbers for the same four year period are 78, 74, 75, and 68 (295 vs. 265 for Grandy, who’s not getting 20 million like Cabrera).

    If Grandy does his league average year, we’re In Like Flynt (or In Like Flynn, if you’re an oldtimer).

    And if he improves to just .240 or so against lefties, his numbers might equal Cabrera’s, which would be really nice.

    2) When Paul O’Neil came to the Yankees, he came with the rep that he would NEVER hit lefties. His numbers were pretty horrible against lefties when we acquired him.

    We used him as a platoon player the first year because of his perceived shortcomings against lefties, but he worked hard at improving and eventually transformed himself into a good hitter against lefties and a Yankee fan favorite.

    Grandy, like Paulie, is a good guy and with a great attitude and desire to succeed (like Paulie), so there’s at least a chance he’ll improve in time against lefties.

    My gut feeling is he’ll be the most exciting CF we’ve had since Mick the Quick, but only time & his desire to improve will tell for sure.

  • Greg

    Halladay would make this rotation the best in baseball. Bye montero. He’s a 1b anyway

  • Grover

    I read Joe’s post as the Yankees should be able to get Halladay eventually for Montero and not Hughes or Joba but a couple of lesser prospects that are close to or are ready to contribute. I would do that in a heartbeat. I was wondering how much is left under the $200M mark now that Pettite is signed? How about some combination of Gardner, Brackman, Mitre, Igawa, and Gaudin to offset some of the money owed Halladay and allow a Damon, a Hairston type and/or a bullpen arm?

    I heard Sweeney Murti say he thought more of Romine than Montero today.

  • Pittsburgh Pinstripes

    Doumit Jays Yankees

    The Jays need a catcher. The Yankees lust after Halliday. The Yankees don’t want to part with Montero, a catcher, their top prospect. The Yankees are actually deep in catching prospects. The Bucs know the Yankees farm well. Maybe Doumit goes to Toronto, Halliday to NYY, Joba to Toronto and the rest of the NYY farm (including Romaine) spread out between Pgh and Toronto.