Phil v. Joba (2010)
ByAs Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes have risen through the Yankee system, they have been dazzled and disappointed at times. Such are the ways of young pitching prospects, and the two will head into Spring Training battling for the same spot in the starting rotation. The loser will, in all likelihood, start the season in the bullpen if not the Triple A rotation, and due to his ability to throw more innings in 2010, Joba will be the incumbent while Phil has an uphill battle if he wants to start in the Bronx this April.
For the Yankees, having two live and highly-regarded arms is hardly a problem; 29 other teams would die to have this problem. For fans watching these two mature into Major League pitchers, it’s always entertaining to see how the two stack up against each other, and today at The Yankee U, Moshe Mandel did just that. He asked a bunch of prospect writers — including our very own Mike Axisa — which of the two was the bigger prospect. Joba seems to have won by a hair, and the jury is still out as to which of the two will be the better Major Leaguer.
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“which of the two was the bigger prospect?”
Joba is obviously the larger of the two.
I really hope the “loser” out of ST starts in Scranton.
Joba is obviously the larger of the two.
If I had supreme mod powers to post images, videos and all sorts of other goodies, this place would be incredible. You know, until it were shut down.
I just want one hour, Ben. Just one! C’mon!!!
If you make it to the hall of fame as a rab poster, one should get the powers.
I fear that day when someone gives you admin powers
Hughes is taller and weighs more then Joba. Just saying…
Hughes weighs 230. No way Joba weighs 230. Hughes is definitely taller, I’ll admit.
According the Yankees website, Hughes weighs 240 and Joba weighs 230.
So you actually believe that CC is 250? Come on brotha.
Their website lists him at 290.
IDK where you guys are getting your numbers from
I make them up. Only stat-minded BMI geeks have the time to look that junk up.
POWERBARS!!!!!
/Heyman & New Haircut’d
??
PROTEIN POWDER
Those weight numbers are recorded like once when those guys are rookies then just used every year.
Drew—I like to fuse caricatures of particular stereotypes. It just so happens (brace yourself, it’s sobering) that Heyman is real.
I’m actually now considering doing a Jon Heyman-styled “My New Hall Vote”. How freakin’ awesome would that be?!
pat—you mean they’re wheyed??? **Instant Crickets**
I got the #’s from baseball ref.
I wouldn’t put too much stock into any weights posted on players anyway.
On Yankees.com they have Al 10 lbs lighter than Philly. Now I know Hughes has 2 inches, give or take, on Al but I doubt Phil is heavier.
John Manuel said:
I guess he means Joba’s big 8 game appearance in AA. I’m sure he meant his entire 2007 minor league season, but whatever.
It’s tough to compare their minor league careers. Joba shot up so quick.
It’s funny, IPK and Hughes have very similar numbers but IPK was never as highly regarded and Phil. The only real difference between their numbers is that IPK walked a few more guys.
As we saw at the Major League level, the difference there was stuff. Hughes’ stuff — mid-to-upper 90s fastball, curve — is simply more alluring that Kennedy’s lower 90s control-based repertoire. Considering their relative levels of polish, most talent evaluators would rightly prefer Hughes to Kennedy in that situation.
Yeah, I agree. Just sayin’, their aggregate minors’ numbers are very similar.
I agree with you but I have a minor nitpick. Hughes FB isn’t mid-to-upper 90′s when starting. It was only like that last year in the pen. Otherwise, he averages right around 91. Kennedy’s FB is only around one MPH lower than Hughes as a starter.
He was around 93/94 during the few starts he made earlier in the year, if I recall correctly.
and before he got a consistent windup he was all over the radar gun in 05, noob
Yeah, that’s why you can’t go pure sabermetrics with prospects in the minors
The loser better be the 6th starter.
So is that why you were late to our chat this afternoon, Mike?
Because you’re cheating on us with some other blog? How log has this been going on?
You faithless bitch. I trusted you. We exchanged vows.
I’m with you. I get seduced into subscribing to their podcast on iTunes, and what happens? They fail to deliver the goods. Stop teasing me.
Mike Axisa, why have you forsaken us?!
Don’t act surprised. You knew this was a relationship born out of convenience.
My children aren’t yours?
Whore!!!
Did the yanks tell anyone else to “prepare as a starter” so that someone like Aceves is technically in the running?
I think they ask most, if not all, of their swing men to prepare as starters. Gaudin, Mitre and Aceves will all enter Spring Training with a shot the rotation.
joba will be a sick #5 starter if he can improve even marginally from 09
For no reason other than my gut, I just don’t think either Phil or Joba will turn into the kind of starting pitchers we would like them to be(dominating). But I do think Phil in the 7th, Joba 8th then Mo to close it out is a deadly combo. Then when Mo is ready to return to Asgard, Joba becomes closer and Phil the 8th inning guy. That would hold us over for another 10 years. I think the Yanks will always be capable of luring a quality starter to the rotation, but building a dominant relief corps is much harder to come across.
Hmm…it’s a good thing no one paid attention to what you wrote.
Haha, yes.
“the Yanks will always be capable of luring a quality starter to the rotation, but building a dominant relief corps is much harder to come across.”
No. See: 2008 Yankees. Entered that season with 3 proven starters, none of them projecting to be some kind of ace (though mussina did pitch like one that year). Also entered the season with Mariano and basicaly nothing else in the pen, save for 2 months of Joba. Yet, when Joba left the pen, it actually got better (not because of Joba’s departure – because the other guys were all getting their work in and getting hot), whereas losing Wang, and then Joba, in the rotation basically killed the team.
Also, it sounds counterintuitive, but having 3 “deadly” one-inning-relievers in the pen could prove to be more problematic than not over the next 10 years. For one, it could lead to an overly formulaic bullpen construction that was over-reliant on those three arms, leading to tiredness amongst them and not-pitching-ness amongst the rest of the pen, which could also lead to future injury. It also could lead to, if Joba and Phil pitch as you’re expecting them to out of the pen, a highly expensive (and therefore fiscally inefficient) bullpen in the future. Rotation depth will always be harder to come by, and therefore more important to capitalize on, than Bullpen depth.
I feel like sucker for even responding to that, but to use an unsubstantiated (and blatantly wrong) claim about roster construction as a reason for your opinion seems like the kind of thing that should be discouraged in a “you will get owned” kind of way.
Do you really think Mo is going to last 10 more years. I say groom Joba for a closer job that he will be getting in a bout a year or 2. If Phil can be his effective set up man then we could return to the days of Nelson and/or Stanton setting up Mo in the late 90′s. Where is our future Mo coming from if not Joba?
Problem with that is that Mo is a once in a generation pitcher. Finding a future Rivera, a guy who dominates the late inings with one pitch, is something we may not see again for a long time. There will be no future Rivera. Let Hughes and Chamberlain try to make their own mark as starters. More valuable that way anyhow….
From BA’s 2007 list:
1 DAISUKE MATSUZAKA, rhp, Red Sox
Who needs a gyroball? He has six pitches that grade out as plus or plus-plus at their best, and he’ll be the best Japanese import ever. And no, we’re not forgetting about Ichiro
Premature ejaculation much?
All of Theo Epstein’s face.
ichiro and matsui are both better than any japanese pitching import has ever been
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