Cashman: Jeter, Mo, Girardi will have to wait

Sergio Mitre and the value of a roster spot
Joba lost more fastball velocity than any other pitcher

Mike’s Take: Three prominent Yankees – Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, and Joe Girardi – enter the 2010 season in the last year of their contracts, however GM Brian Cashman does not intend to change course and negotiate with any of the three during the season. “I don’t think you can separate one from the other,” said Cashman. “I am not saying they are the same, but the questions will come, ‘If you did one, why didn’t you do the other?’ If this was Kansas City, it would be different — but it’s not.”

Since Cashman took over, the team’s philosophy has been to not negotiate with players until their contracts expire. They did this with Jorge Posada and Mo after 2007, and to be fair, Cashman did the same to himself when his contract was up after the 2008 season. Of course, with Girardi in a lame duck year, the first time the team has the audacity to fall into a slump, he’ll be answering questions about his job security. Then again, how would that be different than any other year?

Ben’s Take: For the Yankees and Brian Cashman, this development is nearly not news. The Yankees haven’t given out a post-arbitration, pre-free agency extension to any player in recent years, and the three lame ducks won’t push the issue.

However, it’s worth a minute to ponder how the Yankees have an A-Rod Problem here. Now, when I say an A-Rod Problem, I don’t mean that in what has become the typical sense of the phrase. The Yankees don’t care about the women A-Rod has dated or the Page 6 headlines he’s made. Rather, his contract is the problem. The Yankees owe A-Rod $206 million in guaranteed salary between now and 2017. Jeter will be making $21 million in his age 36 season this year, and when A-Rod hits his age 36 season in 2012, he’ll be earning $29 million.

For the Yankees, the A-Rod contract will be an albatross. Although annual contracts are creeping ever upwards and the Joe Mauer and Albert Pujols extensions will soon set the market, no one has made more than A-Rod did in 2000 except for A-Rod when the Yanks outbid themselves for his services in 2007. The Yankees, for better or worse, will be paying A-Rod $20 million or more when he’s in his early 40s. Can the team afford to do the same with Derek Jeter?

For Derek, in particular, the issue becomes one of years and money. Because Hank opened his mouth last week, Derek has the upper hand in negotiations, and the Yankees won’t and should not let him walk. But come 2014 and 2015, the Yankees will feature a rather old core of players making a significant amount of money. Finding cost-controlled, good young players is going to become that much more important for the Yankees over the next few years if the team is set on staying at or near a budget.

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Sergio Mitre and the value of a roster spot
Joba lost more fastball velocity than any other pitcher
  • Brian

    Amen, Ben…huge ARod problem. How do you justify paying ARod significantly more than Jeter?

    • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

      How to justify paying A-Rod more? He puts up better numbers.

      • OldYanksFan

        No…. ARod puts up much, much better numbers:
        ……..OPS+ wOBA wRC+ (career avg)
        Jeter 121 – .375 – 131
        ARod 147 – .412 – 153

        And ARod was a better defensive SS too.
        Jeter is Jeter. ARod will never be the man, or the Yankee that Derek is. But players get paid for production… as ARod’s production blows Jeter’s away.

        But ARod IS overpaid. He is a rare case in that he’s looking at 600, or 700, or 800 HRs. That is special.

        We should NOT (radically) overpay Jeter just because ARod is overpaid. Why the Yankee went 10/$270 when he would have signed for 8/$220… I don’t know. Maybe the idea of getting the MLB HR leader back was too tempting.

        My quaestion is real value-wise, what is Jeter worth? $12-$15 yr? (NOT considering his age). I think 3/$50 would be VERY a generous contract. (Actually, TOO generous… but I defer to the fact that he IS Derek Jeter.)

    • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

      one way of justifying paying ARod significantly more than Jeter is that ARod is significantly better than Jeter.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        That.

        • Brian

          OK, clearly I was wrong, but is Arod really worth $8 million more than Jeter. Yes, ARod puts up the sexy numbers (HRs and RBIs), but Jeter isn’t too shabby himself- and he’s an icon. It’s a sticky situation.

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus)

    “Finding cost-controlled, good young players is going to become that much more important for the Yankees over the next few years if the team is set on staying at or near a budget.”

    Which means that although I love Javier Vazquez well enough, some of the recent Yankee moves are a little baffling–not each individually, but as a whole.

    (Yes, I realize I may get flamed for this, but I am a little worried that so many of the players on whom which we are so dependent are on the wrong side of 35…)

    • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

      Are you referring to Granderson/Vazquez/Johnson?

    • Will

      Are you referring to Vizcaino? Melky really doesn’t apply because he’ll be in his 2nd arb eligible year by 2011, so if he does make the leap forward that would make him a long-term keeper, he’ll be getting paid too. As for Arodys, he is so young that he might not even crack the majors until after Jeter’s NEXT contract is up. The Vazquez trade really has little bearing on this equation.

      As for having age-35 players, right now, only Arod, Jeter and Posada qualify on offense. Considering that all three are Hall of Fame caliber players, I think you can expect them to have more prolonged success than usual.

      On the pitching side, the only “older key” players are Mariano and Andy. Clearly, Mariano is irreplaceable, but I think the Yankees can find someone to fill in for Pettitte without much drop off. In fact, Joba and Hughes may already be on the path to doing that.

    • whozat

      The only guy they traded who might have been a mainstay over the next 5-10 years is Jackson. Joba and Hughes will both get shots to stick as starters over the next two seasons. Montero is still here. They signed no vets to long-term deals, and they _may_ get two protected top 50 picks for Javy.

      How is what they did baffling?

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus)

      I’m referring more generally to the depth that the system lost, but don’t mind me. I may be going crazy.

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        Depth vs. impact players though. Maybe the farm lost depth, but of the guys traded, only AJAX really fits the bill I had in mind, and that’s only if he reaches his ceiling.

      • rbizzler

        Ahhh, this is one of the big drawbacks of following the young guys in the system in such a dedicated manner. It is easy to become seduced by the potential that we read about and follow every day in DoTF, that it hurts a bit more than it should when guys get moved.

        I have faith in the yanks ability to restore talent lost in the recent moves and given enough time, you will find with other young players to replace the Arodys’ and A-Jax’s of the baseball world.

        Like this guy:
        http://tinyurl.com/y8e9mzu

  • A.D.

    Derek has the upper hand in negotiations

    I would argue that this isn’t true. Realistically Jeter’s place in Yankees history & that he’s more important to the Yankees already gives him all the negotiating power, whatever Hank, Hal, or Cash say doesn’t change this. The Yankees already want Jeter back, that is obvious, so stating the obvious doesn’t change anything.

  • A.D.

    Then again, how would that be different than any other year?

    Agreed they could sign Girardi to a 10 year deal and if the team slumps in year 1 there will be questions.

  • http://twitter.com/Vermilion23 Vermilion

    The thing with Jeter you don’t bring up is he’s the face of the Yankees. The people he brings in, the memorabilia/clothing that are sold with his name on, and every commercial he’s in wearing a Yankees’ icon pays for his contract. I don’t know the numbers but say Jeter’s name-sake alone is worth 6 million. There is 6 million off his cost.

    • radnom

      I agree that fans often (incorrectly) only consider on field value when trying to determine how much money a player is worth to their team. An easy thing to overlook–as fans we are only concerned with winning. Cashman, however has other things to consider along with the on the field production.

      I take issue with your assigning a concrete dollar amount when you can’t possibly be making anything more than a wild guess as to what that value actually is.

      • Ed

        I take issue with your assigning a concrete dollar amount when you can’t possibly be making anything more than a wild guess as to what that value actually is.

        He was pretty clear that he was making the number up on the spot.

        His point was simply that Jeter generates a lot of revenue for the team, which offets the money he’s receiving beyond what he’s worth on the field.

        • radnom

          Yes, he did say that. I don’t have issue with Vermilion then, but a lot of fans assume a lot when it comes to “marketability” of players.
          Matsui, for example. Everyone assumed a $6 mil contract would pay for itself, but upon closer inspection this was not the case.

      • Chris

        Technically, Cashman only handles the on-field side of the business so his only concern is (and should be) wins and losses. It’s Hal and the ‘business’ side of the Yankees that should consider the other aspects.

        • radnom

          So Cashman doesn’t have to work with the ‘business’ side of the organization in order to bring a player on?

          Regardless of who is in exactly what role, fans tend to view personnel moves through one dimension, while an organization has several additional considerations.

          • Chip

            I think you’re overlooking the fact that while the Yankees need Jeter, Jeter also needs the Yankees. If he leaves looking like he’s chasing every penny to play somewhere else, his legacy is diminished. I’m not saying that he’s not going to get paid but I don’t think the Yankees are stupid enough to bid against themselves here. What other team is realistically going to pay a 36-40 year old shortstop with little power 20 million a year?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              The fact that there aren’t many teams that would give Jeter a 20M salary doesn’t mean we’re not still going to give Jeter a 20M salary.

              We probably still do. We could play hardball with Jeter and tell him “Nobody else is giving you more that 15M, so all we’re going to offer you is 16M”, but that’s not a likely scenario. We’re not going to haggle with Jeter (or Mo) to shave off 2-5M from his AAV. They’re both likely to get special treatment next winter, the “no special treatment via early negotiation” comments notwithstanding.

              We’ll use Jeter’s relative lack of leverage to keep him from getting a raise, but I doubt he gets a paycut.

              • Chip

                I’m not so sure. I think the club is more business oriented than the past and I really do think he’ll get a pay cut of some sort. Signing a shortstop to a mega deal at his age just isn’t a smart baseball or business deal so I think Cashman and Hal will keep his pay down as much as they can without negotiations getting ugly. It’ll sure be interesting…

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  Signing a shortstop to a mega deal at his age just isn’t a smart baseball or business deal so I think Cashman and Hal will keep his pay down as much as they can without negotiations getting ugly.

                  Agreed. I’m not saying they’ll sign him to a megadeal, just a sizable one.

                  I think Cash and the FO are much more reluctant to give a 3rd/4th/5th year and would gladly overpay in AAV in exchange for a shorter length.

                • Chip

                  Very true, I’d be shocked if he went more than 3 years on Jeter and I wouldn’t be upset if they overpaid in AAV to keep the total cost of the contract down

            • radnom

              Where are you getting all of that from?

              All I said, was that there is more than just on the field performance for the Yankees all teams to consider when they examine making an offer for Jeter any player.

              Obviously, the Yankees present Jeter with opportunities no other team can. I’m not sure where you are getting that I said they didn’t.

              • Chip

                Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to single out you but there’s always so much talk about how much the Yankees need Jeter but very little talk about how Jeter’s legacy is also tied to being a Yankee.

  • Sam

    Joe’s Take: (rolls joint)

  • Will

    I don’t see how what Hank said has any bearing on the Jeter negotiations. It was a harmless statement by someone who has proven to have little say on such matters.

  • radnom


    with Girardi in a lame duck year, the first time the team has the audacity to fall into a slump, he’ll be answering questions about his job security

    I don’t think this is true. Defending a title will give him some leeway…even with the NY media.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      I hope you’re right, but every time I’ve expected the NY media to show intellect and perspective… they’ve failed me.

      • radnom

        I have a feeling they will have their hands full with the shitstorm thats going to occur over in Queens this season.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Good thing we’ll never find out since the 2010 Yankees won’t slump at all.

          http://www.hiyoooo.com

          • radnom

            true dat.

  • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

    The Michael Kay Show was talking about this and they are straight up BOSHIT INSANE.

    They said in a what if scenario that only one of Jeter or Mo will be resigned. They talked about who they would pick and one guy claimed “oh this is a slam dunk.” Me too but damn. Unlike me EACH HSOT OF THE SHOW INCLUDING MICHAEL KAY said that it’s an easy choice to pick Mo.

    Their reasoning is “it shortens games.”

    While that’s nice and all but there is no one that can replace Jeter’s production at SS. No one in the farm and there sure isn’t anyone great on the market in 2011.

    I love Mo and all but he is much more replaceable. Cash can sgin a FA if he chooses, use an in house guy such as Melancon or K-Rob or worst case scenario use Joba/Hughes!

    Even in the perfect world of having the son of A-Rod’s SS defensive capabilities in his younger days with the bat of Jesus in the farm I would still resign Jeter.

    The hole Jeter makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hole that Mo makes.

    The NY media saddens me greatly.

    Now it’s all moot of course since they’ll both be back but honestly I’d take Jeter over Mo every day of the week and twic eon Sundays.

    • The Three Amigos

      You should have said– ALL MEDIA SADDENS ME GREATLY.

    • larryf

      Jeter for sure and Joba to the pen. Problem solved. Hughes 5th starter. None of this will happen of course…

    • Dan

      If you bring Mo and Jeter back at a realistic 2yr/$25 for Mo and 3Yr/$50 for Jeter don’t you end up saving about $5 million a year comapred to current contracts? These guys are both facing pay cuts in the next round, and all the leverage is with the Yanks. Who will pay them more? They have been more than fairly paid for their contributions to date, and should be paid less for their soon to be lower contributions in the future. Respectfully they will still be the highest paid reliever and shortstop in the game.

    • A.D.

      BOSHIT INSANE.

      IETC

  • tampayank

    I’m enjoying the ride now b/c I think in 2013, 14 and beyond I think these huge contracts will catch up w/ the organization leading to a few years of 3rd place finishes till the GM has the guts to blow it up

    • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

      this is an asinine comment.

      • whozat

        The bit about “guts” might be, but it’s FAR from asinine to think that the Yanks could be in a tough spot when they’re spending 80 mil on an infield that’s 30, 33, 38 and 39 (that’d be 2013, right? +/-1)

        • AndrewYF

          So what? They’d be spending $120 million on the rest of the roster.

        • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

          It’s asinine to write that “these huge contracts”, by which he presumably means ARod and Teixeira, plus Jeter, are going to result in poor performance and mediocre results in three years, requiring a gm to “blow it up”, by which he presumably means trade ARod (?) and get prospects (?) and start over.

          is ARod’s contract a concern? obv. this was addressed already, in the post above. is it foolish to assume that its necessarily going to result in the GM needing to blow up the team and trade off pieces (with no trade value) in order to get the yankees back on track? yes, yes it is.

          • Chip

            The one saving grace about A-Rod’s contract is that it was front-loaded. I’m a lot happier with him making 29 million as a 40 year old than him making 35 million as a 40 year old.

            • OldYanksFan

              ARod will make $21m when he is 40.
              10:$32M, 11:$31M, 12:$29M, 13:$28M, 14:$25M, 15:$21M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M

        • Ed

          Agreed. Don’t forget AJ at $16.5m, and possibly $23m on CC. There’s a lot of money already committed for 2013 for only a few players.

          • Chip

            95 million in fact. Also, both Hughes and Joba will most likely be in their last year of arbitration at that point. Granderson’s reasonable contract will also be up at the end of that year so it’s very likely that they will have three huge free agents plus Burnett out there. That will be one very interesting off-season.

  • The Scout

    Can someone explain this part of the Cashman quote: “If this was Kansas City, it would be different”? Huh? Would the team be trying now to extend the contracts? Or that no one would be asking about the contracts?

    • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

      He means that we’d be preaching the virtues of OBP and signing Mike Jacobs at the same time.

      We’d trade for Yuniesky Betancourt and praise his defense.

      We’d be uncreative with our top talent (Soria) and creative with our middling talent (Pena).

      And we’d sign aging relievers to long-term, expensive deals (Farnsworth).

      Oh wait. Shit.

      • The Scout

        Thanks. That is as plausible an explanation as any.

    • Steve H

      No one would care.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      If this was Kansas City, we’d have resigned Johnny Damon to a 3/36M, Jose Guillen style.

      And then, since we didn’t have a DH (since we wouldn’t have signed Nick Johnson in the wake of the Damon signing) we would have traded Phil Hughes to the Rays for Pat Burrell.

      That’s what he means.

      • ColoYank

        I completely get what you’re saying, tommie, but in Cashman’s case, I doubt seriously that he would say anything publicly about how another club is run. I’m beginning to re-think my previous answer, to say that I think Cashman was making a point about media attention in two very different markets.

        /mebbe missed the point

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          I’m just goofing.

    • ColoYank

      I think more the first part of your question. I read it as an observation on disparate revenue streams and the two clubs’ ability to pay players, and second, club policies on whether you extend guys under current contract.

    • A.D.

      My only guess is he’s saying the media attention these contract talks will get being in NYC instead of KC, therefore he doesn’t want himself or the players to deal with the unnecessary media shit-storm of negotiating with one not the other or whatever during the season. Not because the media controls anything, but because they’re annoying.

    • Ed

      Generally speaking, if you sign players earlier than you have to, the player takes less than market value in exchange for the extra security they’re gaining.

      For a team like KC or Tampa, that’s the only way they can afford to keep their young stars. It looks great if the team gambles correctly like with Longoria (so far), but you also run the risk of getting burned badly (see KC & Angel Berroa).

      The Yankees can afford to pay a little more for a player, so they’d rather avoid the extra risk of signing a player early. It bit them when Posada reached free agency, but it paid off when they didn’t sign Wang long term.

  • KayGee

    “Since Cashman took over, the team’s philosophy has been to not negotiate with players until their contracts expire. They did this with Jorge Posada and Mo after 2007, and to be fair, Cashman did the same to himself when his contract was up after the 2008 season”

    From what I remember, Cashman was willing to negotiate with A-Rod during the 2007 season

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ll-ne.html

    Not sure if that article is 100% accurate, but lets be clear if it is: The Yankees were willing to bend the rules for A-Rod. I think this is the bigger “A-Rod problem”. Whether the reason was the Texas money or not, the point still remains. We all know A-Rod deserves to be paid significantly more than Jeter, but the extension talk in-season is what bothers me a little bit.

    • whozat

      The signing up to pay a guy until he’s 42 part is the part that bothers me.

      • A.D.

        Its the “negotiating” the richest contract ever to a player without much leverage that bothers me.

        • KayGee

          That too

    • ColoYank

      The only difference being the possibility of A-Rod opting out at that time. That isn’t hanging over the Yanks’ head for other players.

      • KayGee

        Right…but opting out = becoming a free agent…which applies to Jeter/Mo after this season and Posada next season…so it is really the same principal

        Again, I understand the money from Texas was probably a major factor. If I’m Casey Close, I’m still using that for leverage though.

        • Ed

          Yeah, the Texas money absolutely was a major factor.

          If the team extended A-Rod, Texas was on the hook for $27m of the contract. The way it played out, the Yankees have to pay it all.

          Essentially, if A-Rod had agreed to an extension, the Yankees would’ve gotten one year of the contract for free.

          • KayGee

            Hypothetically speaking, what if the Jeter camp tells Cashman they have a chance to sign Jeter to an extension at a more team-friendly contract before/during the season…say 3 yrs / 54 million for argument’s sake….but if he plays out the season and produces close to normal Jeterian levels, then he hits the open market… Will the chance to save money (possibly a significant amount) factor in to that?

            Again, not saying this is even a realistic situation…but for the sake of argument what do you think?

            • Ed

              I think the team’s stance is actually “We will not negotiate fair value contracts ahead of time. However, if you feel a need to significantly undersell yourself, we’ll gladly talk.”

              I have no idea how much of a discount it would take to get Cashman to budge.

            • OldYanksFan

              You think another teams offers 36 yr old Jeter $18/yr?
              You think another teams offers 36 yr old Jeter $16/yr?
              You think another teams offers 36 yr old Jeter $14/yr?

              I mean… Jeter is Jeter. Can’t put a value on that. But he has the same career OPS as Damon, and less then Matsui or Nick the Stick. How much does another team pay him?

    • A.D.

      We all know A-Rod deserves to be paid significantly more than Jeter, but the extension talk in-season is what bothers me a little bit.

      Eh, its a unsubstantiated rumor from Olney & it was a very unique situation with other teams money on the table.

  • rbizzler

    Count me in the camp that thinks that Hank’s comments were harmless and irrelevant. I don’t think that it comes as any surprise to the Jeter camp that the Yanks are going to do what it takes to bring him back. As long as he doesn’t take a hard stance on years/dollars, it behooves both parties to get something done with as little public bickering as possible. Plus, they can always placate Jeet with one of those cozy ‘personal service contracts’ for his retirement days where he gets seven figures to hang out at the stadium a few times a year and make some appearances an behalf of the club.

    • Chip

      Those are actually a really good deal for the Yankees as they don’t pay luxury tax on personal service contracts

      • rbizzler

        Yup, he would just become an employee of the org with some sort of ceremonial title.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Can you actually put that as part of a player contract? A future personal services contract post-retirement? I bet that’s not allowed in the CBA.

        • rbizzler

          I am sure that according to the CBA you can’t, but that doesn’t mean that those discussions can’t take place as a side note to the contract negotiations.

          IIRC, the Astro’s signed up Clemens for one of those deals when he signed with them, but then voided the deal after the steroid shite hit the fan.

        • Ed

          When Clemens signed his first Astros contract, it included personal services after retirement.

          The last contract Randy Johnson signed with Arizona before coming to the Yankees included personal services as well.

          I’d imagine though that if the team tried to hide any significant amount of money like that, Selig would crack down on it.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Gotcha, thanks.

          • Thomas

            When Clemens signed his first Astros contract, it included personal services after retirement.

            Mindy McCready was doing Clemens pre-retirement personal services.

  • Chip

    I think the actual contract negotiations are going to very anti-climactic. I doubt Jeter or Mo are going to have huge drawn-out negotiations or use the media to try to pressure the club to get more money. At least, that’s what this optimistic guy is thinking. I’ll predict:

    Jeter – 3/50 with a couple of team options at 15 million apiece (he can just retire if he doesn’t want to come back)

    Mo-2/20

    A lot of people might think those are low but the market for players out of their primes have crashed so even lower numbers than that wouldn’t even surprise me.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Jeter and Mo will argue, however, that while they may be out of the general age range for a player’s prime, they’re not actually playing as if they’ve exited their prime. They’re both still producing at career-prime levels. So they should be paid as such.

      I just don’t see either player taking a pay cut. They’ll ask for their 2010 salary level or above, but unlike Damon, the team will be more than happy to give it to them.

      • radnom

        Yes, but their career-prime production levels are worth a much different amount in this market compared to when their deals were originally signed.

        Damon was producing at career prime levels as well.

        I’m not sure if it will happen, but I would like the Yankees to at least try to play a little hardball and get them to get at least a small paycut. No other team is going to come close to their current salaries anyway.

        • Mike HC

          Damon was not producing at career prime levels. He went from a solid everyday centerfielder to a terrible left fielder. That is a huge defensive drop. The Yanks signed him to be a centerfielder for his first Yankee contract.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            And, moreover, Damon had a career year in 2009 that was unexpected and probably an outlier. His non-2009 recent numbers are much less attractive.

            He had way more red flags than Jeter/Mo do.

      • Ed

        Agreed. Jeter is still better than most shortstops in their prime, so he should still get good money.

        As for Mo, the team lost the ability to say “you’re past your prime and should be paid as such” when they gave him a record setting contract for his age 38-40 seasons. Honestly, I’d be impressed if Cashman could even argue that with a straight face.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Mo: 2/30 or 3/45
          Jeter: 3/60

          • Chip

            I completely agree that those are both completely possible and likely what Jeter and Mo expect but that’s just plain irresponsible if they actually get that much. It wouldn’t surprise me but it would disappoint me greatly. I think they risk of them falling off a cliff production-wise is far too great but that’s me

          • Ed

            I’m going to say 4 for Jeter. He’ll be about the same age Posada was when he got 4, and Jeter should age more gracefully.

            2 years for Mo though. They cared more about years than money with Mo last time, and that was before shoulder surgery. The postseason aches this year probably aren’t going to help.

      • Chip

        But Cashman recently hasn’t been using past performance when deciding who to sign. That’s the difference between this version of the Yankees and the mid decade teams. Guys like Clemens, Giambi, and even A-Rod were given contracts relative to their current contribution levels without any thought to how they would actually project. Lately, Cashman has been signing guys more due to future probable production which means dealing out big contracts to guys in their late 20’s like Sabathia and Tex while letting the guys who are older like Damon and Abreu walk if they’re not going to accept a pay-cut.

        I realize that Jeter and Mo aren’t Damon and Abreu but I guarantee Cashman makes it very clear that their values aren’t nearly what they were when they signed previous contracts and thus should take a pay cut. Like I said, I can’t wait to see what actually happens but that’s my opinion

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          And what I’m saying is, the fact that they’re older means they won’t get LONG deals, but they’re still producing at 20M and 15M AAV levels NOW.

          So, rolling over their current deals into new ones at similar pay levels isn’t “paying for past performance”, it’s paying for PRESENT performance. Their past performance and present performance is pretty identical. Doesn’t mean their future performance will also be identical, but it’s a good trendline.

          • Chip

            Agreed, but I’d argue that both Jeter and Mo were overpaid in their previous contracts but that’s another story.

            If Jeter’s defensive renaissance is legit and he can play average or even above-average defense over the next three years then sign me up for 3/60 but I just don’t think it’s likely. Don’t get me wrong, Jeter is my favorite Yankee of all time and I hope he gets to 4,000 hits but hoping for another 7 win season from him is being optimistic.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Agreed, but I’d argue that both Jeter and Mo were overpaid in their previous contracts but that’s another story.

              Meh, they weren’t overpaid by much. Maybe Jeter was only worth 17-18M and not 20+. Maybe Mo was only worth 12-13M and not 15M.

              The difference is small enough that it’s not worth much haggling over.

  • Hughesus Christo

    Do I even need to say it? Yes, yes I do.

    That’s a shot at Jeter.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      It’s a game of skill, deception, honor and deceit.

      • Hughesus Christo

        I honestly can’t believe it took this long. We’re slipping, as a community. We must be vigilant about shots at Jeter.

  • Mike HC

    “The Yankees owe A-Rod $206 million in guaranteed salary between now and 2010.”

    That is some front loaded deal A-Rod got. Maybe Boras is a good agent after all.