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	<title>Comments on: Why sending Hughes to the minors is a waste</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-792513</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-792513</guid>
		<description>Screw winning. Let&#039;s see some stats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Screw winning. Let&#8217;s see some stats.</p>
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		<title>By: The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-790049</link>
		<dc:creator>The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-790049</guid>
		<description>Heh, you have to get TSJC to sign off on the appointment, I&#039;m definitely not in the Society.  I was, but I&#039;ve been wavering and on the fence about this whole issue for a couple of months at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, you have to get TSJC to sign off on the appointment, I&#8217;m definitely not in the Society.  I was, but I&#8217;ve been wavering and on the fence about this whole issue for a couple of months at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-790030</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-790030</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m honored, mr Honorable Congressman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m honored, mr Honorable Congressman</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-790025</link>
		<dc:creator>The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-790025</guid>
		<description>I think you just became the VP of the Scranton &#039;Til the Stretch Society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you just became the VP of the Scranton &#8216;Til the Stretch Society.</p>
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		<title>By: Christos</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789913</link>
		<dc:creator>Christos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789913</guid>
		<description>idiot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>idiot</p>
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		<title>By: lenNY's Yankees</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789905</link>
		<dc:creator>lenNY's Yankees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789905</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the self-promotion, but Girardi said this spring that he&#039;s taking the 12 best pitchers. I thought that pretty much ended these discussions.

http://www.lennysyankees.com/2010/02/dont-expect-phil-or-joba-in-triple.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the self-promotion, but Girardi said this spring that he&#8217;s taking the 12 best pitchers. I thought that pretty much ended these discussions.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lennysyankees.com/2010/02/dont-expect-phil-or-joba-in-triple.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lennysyankees.com/2.....riple.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789622</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789622</guid>
		<description>&quot; and the best big league ready arms should always good north when the club breaks camp&quot;

scranton is north of florida.

/had to&#039;d

But seriously, I think this is a misleading statement, because it sounds so obvious that it must be indisputable, but there is actually an underlying fallacy here. The assumption is that Hughes is legitimately &quot;big league ready&quot;. This is, in my opinion, not entirely true. Hughes is big-league ready as far as pitching in the bullpen goes, but as an MLB starter, his career ERA is north of 5. Considering his talent level as a starting pitcher, I would argue that he is decidedly NOT big-league ready. What he is missing is that third full season of starting that he still hasn&#039;t gotten.

Hughes has been around so long and has pitched in AAA that we all assume he&#039;s had the equivalent of a full season at AAA, and that he has &quot;nothing left to gain&quot; from pitching in the minors, but this is untrue. Pitching parts of several injury-ridden and stunted-by-bullpen seasons in AAA does not equate to pitching a full season there, because a major part of that aspect of a player&#039;s development IS throwing that full season down there. It gives a pitcher an opportunity to strengthen his arm to the point where he can throw 150-170 innings the next season, and it gives him an opportunity to develop the remainder of his repertoire. 

I do feel that there is something to be gained from a stint in the MLB bullpen, but he has already pitched there, and already gained what was to be gained. Bullpen stints do, I believe, help a starter develop his best pitches into legitimate out-pitches because they are so often pitching for the strikeout since they don&#039;t need to conserve themselves. Thus the arm becomes very adept at throwing, for example, the fastball up and in, or the curve down and away, etc, to the exact right locations for optimal pitch effectiveness. But no amount of time in the bullpen can prepare a pitcher for a full season of starting because A) the pitcher&#039;s arm will not have been stretched out and B) the pitcher will likely not have done much of anything with his 3rd/4th pitches.

So it is certainly untrue when people say that it is a waste of development time for a starter to pitch in the bullpen because it isn&#039;t. This is, in my opinion, something that enables a pitcher with good stuff to hone his strikeout ability and make himself better at getting out of jams in the future. But that is a small part of a pitcher&#039;s development, and it is one that is simply hastened by a bullpen stint, not facilitated in entirety by one. Many starters simply come up and struggle for a year or two in the bigs before they gain that jam-escaping ability that enables them to fulfill their potential. 

It is impossible, however, for a pitcher to gain full-season stamina without pitching full seasons, and what people seem to forget is that Hughes has not had the opportunity to do this since 2006. And this year he has that opportunity. Not just because he is healthy, but because the yankees have 5 starters who are likely better than he is in some capacity (mostly in terms of stamina), and 7 relievers who, while lesser pitchers than Hughes (with the possible exception of mariano), all figure to be perfectly capable major league relievers. If the bullpen falls to pieces in the regular season, that&#039;s a different story, but if they approach their performance levels from last year, then the dropoff resulting from Hughes pitching in AAA would not be extreme. Thus Hughes, despite being capable of improving the 2010 club, is not, as things stand now, vital to its success. The only situations in which he would be, in fact, are if he is needed as a starter due to an injury in the rotation, which would necessitate his being ready to start, or if the &#039;pen PROVES itself incapable of holding a lead, which would take more than a few weeks of spring training to determine.

So, as you can see, to say that &quot;the best big league ready arms should always go north&quot; is a thoroughly debatable statement masquerading as indisputable fact. I would even say, in fact, that it is a verifiable Boversimplification. Consider this: CC is coming off his third consecutive heavy workload, Burnett his second (and first career 2-year injury free period), Pettitte is coming of a heavy workload for a pitcher who is approaching his 38th birthday, and Joba jumped up his innings by quite a bit from last years. There is undeniably considerable injury risk in the Yankees rotation. Not risk that we should be up in arms about - all teams have considerable injury risks in their rotations. That&#039;s what starting pitching is - a considerable injury risk. But that&#039;s why every team would kill to have a pitcher of Hughes&#039;s caliber starting in AAA, ready to come up whenever he is needed. There are a lot of great starting pitching prospects out there right now who could succeed in a major league bullpen right now, and be one of the 7 or 8 best pitchers on their respective MLB clubs. But if there isn&#039;t room for them to start, and they haven&#039;t garnered enough innings as starters to be ready for a full-time starting role, they don&#039;t pitch out of the MLB bullpen, they &quot;toil&quot; in AAA.

You can&#039;t make the argument that Hughes shouldn&#039;t be pitching in AAA because the competition is lower and it would be &quot;too easy&quot; for him if the alternative is him pitching in the MLB bullpen, where he is going to be able to max out on every pitch and blow hitters away and not have to worry about conserving himself. He has the ability to rear back and strike guys out already. What he doesn&#039;t have yet is the ability to pitch 170+ innings. He&#039;ll need that for next year, when Andy&#039;s and Javy&#039;s contracts are up. 

Certainly there are positives to keeping him in the bullpen. But Hughes pitching in AAA in 2010 is not, never was, and never will be a &quot;dumb idea floating around because there&#039;s nothing else to talk about&quot;. It is a very legitimate option that, quite frankly, is probably the better one for the team, long-term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; and the best big league ready arms should always good north when the club breaks camp&#8221;</p>
<p>scranton is north of florida.</p>
<p>/had to&#8217;d</p>
<p>But seriously, I think this is a misleading statement, because it sounds so obvious that it must be indisputable, but there is actually an underlying fallacy here. The assumption is that Hughes is legitimately &#8220;big league ready&#8221;. This is, in my opinion, not entirely true. Hughes is big-league ready as far as pitching in the bullpen goes, but as an MLB starter, his career ERA is north of 5. Considering his talent level as a starting pitcher, I would argue that he is decidedly NOT big-league ready. What he is missing is that third full season of starting that he still hasn&#8217;t gotten.</p>
<p>Hughes has been around so long and has pitched in AAA that we all assume he&#8217;s had the equivalent of a full season at AAA, and that he has &#8220;nothing left to gain&#8221; from pitching in the minors, but this is untrue. Pitching parts of several injury-ridden and stunted-by-bullpen seasons in AAA does not equate to pitching a full season there, because a major part of that aspect of a player&#8217;s development IS throwing that full season down there. It gives a pitcher an opportunity to strengthen his arm to the point where he can throw 150-170 innings the next season, and it gives him an opportunity to develop the remainder of his repertoire. </p>
<p>I do feel that there is something to be gained from a stint in the MLB bullpen, but he has already pitched there, and already gained what was to be gained. Bullpen stints do, I believe, help a starter develop his best pitches into legitimate out-pitches because they are so often pitching for the strikeout since they don&#8217;t need to conserve themselves. Thus the arm becomes very adept at throwing, for example, the fastball up and in, or the curve down and away, etc, to the exact right locations for optimal pitch effectiveness. But no amount of time in the bullpen can prepare a pitcher for a full season of starting because A) the pitcher&#8217;s arm will not have been stretched out and B) the pitcher will likely not have done much of anything with his 3rd/4th pitches.</p>
<p>So it is certainly untrue when people say that it is a waste of development time for a starter to pitch in the bullpen because it isn&#8217;t. This is, in my opinion, something that enables a pitcher with good stuff to hone his strikeout ability and make himself better at getting out of jams in the future. But that is a small part of a pitcher&#8217;s development, and it is one that is simply hastened by a bullpen stint, not facilitated in entirety by one. Many starters simply come up and struggle for a year or two in the bigs before they gain that jam-escaping ability that enables them to fulfill their potential. </p>
<p>It is impossible, however, for a pitcher to gain full-season stamina without pitching full seasons, and what people seem to forget is that Hughes has not had the opportunity to do this since 2006. And this year he has that opportunity. Not just because he is healthy, but because the yankees have 5 starters who are likely better than he is in some capacity (mostly in terms of stamina), and 7 relievers who, while lesser pitchers than Hughes (with the possible exception of mariano), all figure to be perfectly capable major league relievers. If the bullpen falls to pieces in the regular season, that&#8217;s a different story, but if they approach their performance levels from last year, then the dropoff resulting from Hughes pitching in AAA would not be extreme. Thus Hughes, despite being capable of improving the 2010 club, is not, as things stand now, vital to its success. The only situations in which he would be, in fact, are if he is needed as a starter due to an injury in the rotation, which would necessitate his being ready to start, or if the &#8216;pen PROVES itself incapable of holding a lead, which would take more than a few weeks of spring training to determine.</p>
<p>So, as you can see, to say that &#8220;the best big league ready arms should always go north&#8221; is a thoroughly debatable statement masquerading as indisputable fact. I would even say, in fact, that it is a verifiable Boversimplification. Consider this: CC is coming off his third consecutive heavy workload, Burnett his second (and first career 2-year injury free period), Pettitte is coming of a heavy workload for a pitcher who is approaching his 38th birthday, and Joba jumped up his innings by quite a bit from last years. There is undeniably considerable injury risk in the Yankees rotation. Not risk that we should be up in arms about &#8211; all teams have considerable injury risks in their rotations. That&#8217;s what starting pitching is &#8211; a considerable injury risk. But that&#8217;s why every team would kill to have a pitcher of Hughes&#8217;s caliber starting in AAA, ready to come up whenever he is needed. There are a lot of great starting pitching prospects out there right now who could succeed in a major league bullpen right now, and be one of the 7 or 8 best pitchers on their respective MLB clubs. But if there isn&#8217;t room for them to start, and they haven&#8217;t garnered enough innings as starters to be ready for a full-time starting role, they don&#8217;t pitch out of the MLB bullpen, they &#8220;toil&#8221; in AAA.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t make the argument that Hughes shouldn&#8217;t be pitching in AAA because the competition is lower and it would be &#8220;too easy&#8221; for him if the alternative is him pitching in the MLB bullpen, where he is going to be able to max out on every pitch and blow hitters away and not have to worry about conserving himself. He has the ability to rear back and strike guys out already. What he doesn&#8217;t have yet is the ability to pitch 170+ innings. He&#8217;ll need that for next year, when Andy&#8217;s and Javy&#8217;s contracts are up. </p>
<p>Certainly there are positives to keeping him in the bullpen. But Hughes pitching in AAA in 2010 is not, never was, and never will be a &#8220;dumb idea floating around because there&#8217;s nothing else to talk about&#8221;. It is a very legitimate option that, quite frankly, is probably the better one for the team, long-term.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob in CT</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789600</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob in CT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789600</guid>
		<description>I agree the downside is quite limited.  Yay.  

I&#039;m just convinced he&#039;s bantha fodder and would rather not waste that month.  A guy like Edwar was worth trying out.  He didn&#039;t work out, but I understand why the org. gave him chances.  Mitre, I simply do not understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree the downside is quite limited.  Yay.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just convinced he&#8217;s bantha fodder and would rather not waste that month.  A guy like Edwar was worth trying out.  He didn&#8217;t work out, but I understand why the org. gave him chances.  Mitre, I simply do not understand.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789537</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789537</guid>
		<description>he has pitched minuscule parts of three seasons in AAA. We know he&#039;s a good enough pitcher to succeed at that level, but there is certainly something to be said for him actually getting to pitch a full season as a starter there, since he hasn&#039;t had a full season as a starter since his AA campaign in &#039;06.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>he has pitched minuscule parts of three seasons in AAA. We know he&#8217;s a good enough pitcher to succeed at that level, but there is certainly something to be said for him actually getting to pitch a full season as a starter there, since he hasn&#8217;t had a full season as a starter since his AA campaign in &#8217;06.</p>
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		<title>By: The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/why-sending-hughes-to-the-minors-is-a-waste-24519/#comment-789536</link>
		<dc:creator>The Honorable Congressman Mondesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=24519#comment-789536</guid>
		<description>Just slow down and cool it with the overreactions.  I said nothing about anything that Bo said, and you keep creating straw-men like this &#039;throwing out names of guys who were in the Mexican League&#039; cannard.  There&#039;s no need for that stuff, and that&#039;s what causes the problems.  Nobody&#039;s trying to pick a fight with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just slow down and cool it with the overreactions.  I said nothing about anything that Bo said, and you keep creating straw-men like this &#8216;throwing out names of guys who were in the Mexican League&#8217; cannard.  There&#8217;s no need for that stuff, and that&#8217;s what causes the problems.  Nobody&#8217;s trying to pick a fight with you.</p>
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