Gardenhire bemoans pitching change shenanigans
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Ron Gardenhire shows just how much he's going to whine about something rather mundane. AP Photo/Duane Burleson
With the Yankees and their pitching changes, it’s always something. For years, teams have complained about how, at home, the Yanks ice their opponents by drawing out “God Bless America.” The extra 30 seconds of signing, apparently, are to blame for any effective pitching, and the Yanks managed to reach the 2001 World Series simply by exploiting Ronan Tynan.
Yesterday, though, Twins manager Ron Gardenhire managed to trump those complaints with a rant of his own. In the ninth inning of the evening match-up between the two clubs, the Yankees jumped out to a 3-2 lead when Nick Swisher homered with two outs in the 9th. After Mark Teixeira was thrown out at second, the Yanks had to rush back onto the field, and Mariano Rivera didn’t have enough time to warm up. So Joe Girardi stalled.
At the time, Andy Pettitte had thrown just 94 pitches, and the Yanks’ skipper sent his lefty back onto the field to take his warm-up tosses. From a baseball strategy perspective, it made sense. Rivera had pitched just a few hours earlier, and Justin Morneau, a lefty who doesn’t hit southpaws as well as he does right-handers, was due up. Pettitte took his seven pitches to the glove, and then, Joe Girardi came out to retrieve him. Into the game came Mariano, and three batters later, the Yanks had themselves their second win of the day.
Later, Gardenhire claimed that he knew Pettitte wouldn’t actually face Morneau, and he ranted against the Yanks. He said:
No, he wasn’t going to throw a pitch. That was kind of tired, to tell you the truth. You don’t know normally get that long between innings to do all that, but we know what’s going on there.
That’s a situation Major League Baseball needs to take care of when stuff like that happens. You don’t have a guy ready in the bullpen, if your starter goes out there, he should have to face a hitter. That’s just the way it should be. If you don’t get a guy up, that’s the way it should be, unless the other team makes a change.
But that’s not what lost the game for us. That’s stuff that just gets old right there.
Now, I can see why Gardenhire might be frustrated with the Yankees. Since he took over for Tom Kelly in 2002, Gardenhire’s Twins have gone a woeful 15-45 against the Yankees during the regular season and have lost three ALDS series to the Bombers as well. Even though the Twins are one of the more successful AL Central teams of the decade and even though Gardenhire has managed the club to five first-place finishes during his first eight years at the helm, the Yankees just have the Twins’ number.
But this little rant comes across as a sore-loser whine. How many times do we see pitchers throw over to first to give a reliever more time to warm up? How many times have we seen a manager send out one pitcher to start an inning to allow another more time? I’m sure Gardenhire has done this himself, and it’s really not a different tactic than sending out a pitching coach to make a perfunctory and unnecessary mound visit.
Ron Gardenhire has been nothing short of professional in his time with the Twins, but he’s wrong here. The Yankees did what any team would do in their situation, and the Twins didn’t lose because of it. They lost because their closer allowed a home run to Nick Swisher five minutes earlier. Them’s the breaks.
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The Mason Williams Watch
Being here in Philly and watching on mlb.tv, the Twins announcerswere brutal with this same point. Blyleven and the play by play guy did not stop whining about Pettitte should be forced to pitch to one batter because he came out to the mound to start the inning. The whole entire ninth inning was these 2 guys crying that mlb needs to address this matter as if this was the reason that the Twins lost the game.
I’m also in the Philly area, and was watching the Minny broadcasters as well. That was my same reaction. Supremely irritating.
I watched that broadcast too. They said MLB had to make a pitcher pitch to one batter if he came out and warmed up . . . RIDICULOUS. What’s in the water in Minnesota??
Even if this does stink of sore loser-dom, I don’t think you’ve actually met the issue on its own merits. Do other teams do it? Yes. Do similar things happen across all of baseball as a strategic element of the game? Again, yes. Does Gardenhire occasionally use this tactic as well from time to time? I haven’t seen too many Twins games, but I’m going to say it’s probably happened under his tenure.
But the question he’s posing is a legitimate one: should teams be able to stall and tediously hold up the game because they weren’t prepared to send out the pitcher with all deliberate speed?
Yes. Why shouldn’t they?
Further, you’re allowed to make pitching changes mid at-bat, correct? If they changed the rule to force the pitcher to at least throw one pitch to lead off the inning, then I’m guessing the pitcher would simply throw one pitch, maybe an intentional ball, and then they’d make the pitching change. Attempting to stipulate that they have to face at least one batter would just create an exception to the general rule of pitching changes and would create a host of issues.
I don’t see why it’s a problem. If the complaint is that the games are taking too long, then ban batters from stepping out every pitch or enforce the time between pitches rule before you create a new rule regarding something that rarely happens. If the complaint is that its “omg totally unfair because we wanted to face Pettitte and not the G.O.A.T.”, then that’s a stupid complaint that should be ignored.
I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve said, and from a personal standpoint, I have no issue with the stalling and other nuanced time strategies.
The issue I had was the post merely says, “He sounds like a sore loser because he’s lost so many games to the Yankees, and all kinds of stall tactics are popular around the league.” While this may be true, that doesn’t mean those are necessarily amenable instances, either. He’s complaining that the league should make some sort of ruling to curb things like this. Again, I wouldn’t be keen to such an idea, but Gardenhire’s sentiment is frequently echoed throughout baseball, whether we agree or not.
Why not explore the alternatives, impacts of such changes, what MLB can do?
You’re also correct, Stephen, that changing the rule would likely just exacerbate existing problems, albeit in different ways.
I just think it was dismissive of an issue that is a legitimate concern for many, even if we may not see it as one.
YES. Its part of the game. I don’t care if it adds an extra half hour to every game . . . It’s the right way to play baseball. I am so tired of all this discussion about the games being too long.
at least he is not going all joe west
Joe West is an idiot whenever he opens his mouth.
Pretty ridiculous, I certainly hope Gardenhire has never used that move himself.
I really liked the move. For once I can look at a Girardi move that helped win the game, rather than one that gave it away.
really? once? hyperbole much?
Yes, he was responsible for all 59 losses last year and deserves no credit for the 103 wins.
Oh, and that World Series thingie too.
That World Series was all on Damon, Matsui, Melky and Arodys Vizcaino. Girardi had nothing to do with it.
But it took them 6 games!
Yea, Girardi gave so many games away last year that the Yanks were only able to win the World Series. We could have really done better if it was not for Girardi’s stupid moves.
All of you above really need to lighten up. Of course it was an exaggeration. My point was its easy to point at moves by a manager that cost you a game. It is very hard to point to moves by a manager that win the game.
My bad, my sarcasm detector is in the shop.
No, it’s easy to retroactively decide that a move that went badly cost the team a game.
Let’s say Joe had let Andy pitch to Morneau, and Justin jacked one. The Yanks go on to lose. Given that Andy was not tiring, had been pitching great, and Morneau hits lefties at a lesser rate than he hits righties…would that be a move that “cost the team the game”?
At the time, I was like “noooo let Andy stay in!” but that was probably just because I wanted Andy to get a complete game. Andy WAS pitching great, but he’d just gotten through a pretty high-leverage inning and he was going through the order for the fourth time, I think.
If, like you said, they left in Andy, and Morneau hit a home run off of him, and then we had to play extras and burn the already sort of thin bullpen, people would have killed Girardi for not putting in, well, the greatest reliever of all time to end the game in the 9th. Mo had gotten the save earlier in the day and yeah it was a bit terrifying, but it’s not like he threw a ton of pitches and I trust Girardi not to burn out any reliever’s arm, especially because he knows Mo is “older,” as he would say.
I do think if the lead was even two runs, Girardi would have let Andy try to finish the game.
My bad. I guess I don’t have your same problem of only focusing on Girardi’s questionable decisions. I notice the good stuff he does all the time.
I hope you were sarcasming us.
Hey Ron, want a waaaamburger with those french cries?
call da waaaaambalamps
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
I thought Joe West’s bad year was more newsworthy than Gardenhire’s whine.
Boo.
too bad you don’t have your own blog to go write
Yeah it’s not like they ever talked about this on this blog before!
http://riveraveblues.com/tag/joe-west/
Is this one of them “unwritten rules” I been hearin’ so much about?
I think this is more of a “get off my lawn” rule.
As in, “back in the day, when a pitcher took the mound, he went out there to pitch. Not to employ some p*ssy strategy like stalling.”
I need to get me one of those unwritten rule books.
The Twins should have filed a protest and otherwise kept their mouths shut.
then they’d look stupid when it was denied post haste
Agreed, but I think it looks less stupid then complaining about it. The Yankees protest of the Beckett situation was clearly going to be denied, but at least they didn’t go to the press with it. All of that being said though, I guess the Twins really couldn’t protest, since there’s no rule they are accusing the Yankees of breaking.
true, but they should just take it up with baseball if they want a rule change. Don’t make it seem like the yankees are immoral or something because they make strategic moves like that. It would have been stupid of them not to do what they did, since the rules allow for it. Should teams (or, apparently, just the yankees) have to make stupid decisions because otherwise they will annoy their opponents?
Exaclty right. The rule might not be great but that is besides the point. Rally for a rule change if you want. But the implication here was that the Yanks were playing cheap. And he clearly said that out of frustration.
Like when you beat a friend in a basketball or football video game and he complains you used the same play, or exploiting some kind of glitch (or he beats you and you complain). Each player is playing the same game. All complaining is out of frustration for losing.
If its within the rules, how are you going to complain about it? If the rule is, the pitcher who goes out and warms up has to throw to 1 batter, than thats the rule…but its not, and therefore gardenhire has no point.
Since when is playing within the rules, against the rules?
Same could be said about the Beckett injury thing. I didn’t care about that then and don’t care about it now so it’s all much ado about nothing in my eyes.
eh i think the beckett thing was fishy. how did the pitching coach only know he was injured when there was nothing to say he was? even francona and the trainer were like hwah? and all you have to say to the upire s oh he’s hurt and boom ok? but, obv, putting him on the dl directly following means he was hurt but regardless in that moment it seemed extremely fishy.
That’s not the issue.
The procedure is to notify the umpire prior to bringing in a reliever for an injured pitcher. Farrell called for Delcarmen, then notified the umpire that Beckett was hurt so Delcarmen could get warmed up on the mound.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5202545
“When a pitcher leaves a game with an injury, baseball rules allow for his replacement to take as much time as needed to get loose.
Following Robinson Cano’s two-run double in the fifth, Boston pitching coach John Farrell visited the mound. After a quick consultation with Beckett he gestured to the bullpen, and plate umpire Angel Campos signaled Delcarmen into the game.
Then, a trainer and Red Sox manager Terry Francona went to the mound as Delcarmen got ready to enter.”
Exactly, just bring the trainer and manager out, have the trainer rub his back a bit, and then everybody walk back to the dugout and the reliever comes in.
Except Boston f’ed up the Beckett example. There are like a dozen legal ways to give a reliever more time to get warm and Farrell messed it up.
Girardi simply used strategery.
I’m sure it will only be a matter of time before someone finds game footage of Gardenhire doing the same thing in the past. Be careful what you complain about in the press. It may come back to haunt you.
Hey Ben. What’s the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?
Heh.
I had a similar reaction to this comment.
IDGI.
que?
“I don’t get it” maybe?
yeah, it’s “I don’t get it.” Cuz I don’t. It’s probably a quote from a movie that I’ve never seen or something.
supertroopers!!!!! see it.
If you don’t watch Super Troopers within the next 72 hours, you’re doing yourself a massive disservice.
And just to show Mister Delaware is serious, I’m giving you 48 hours (another good movie, btw).
And good show (assuming you paraphrased Fat Tony on purpose).
it’s Super Troopers when the guys keep saying “shenanigans” and the captain says “i swear to god, i’m gonna pistol whip the next guy who says ‘shenanigans’”…so they ask farva (who just walked in, IIRC) “hey farva, what’s the name of that restaurant with all the goofy shit on the walls and mozzarella sticks?”
PUT THOSE AWAY!!!
That’s the inverse of reading a comic strip aloud, but with the same end result.
Man the rest of the baseball world needs to get the sand out of it’s collective vagina and stop whining about the yankees. Somehow, because the media loves to hate on the yankees (other than Jeter and Pettitte and Rivera, of course), when opponents bitch about some entirely legal transgression the yankees or one of their players make, they are seen as standing up for what’s right, rather than the whiny, childish hissyfits that they are.
Somehow, because the media loves to hate on the yankees (other than Jeter and Pettitte and Rivera, of course),
Can you imagine how bad it’s going to get when those 3 (+Posada) are gone?
Ugh. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I HATE ALL THE YANKEES THEY ALL SUCK but I guess I have some respect for Rivera” and stuff like that. It’s going to be AWFUL when they’re gone. For more reasons than one.
Ask them to name all the Yankee players they hate. Any unnamed players become exempt. Boom: problem solved for the post-Rivera age.
ZOMG A-ROD!!!!!! HE’S WORSE THAN A NAZI!!!!!!
A-Rod has destroyed the innocence of baseball forever. An innocence even young, upstanding players like Grady Sizemore and Evan Longoria may never be able to restore.
Was “upstanding” a dick joke?
I think it was a centaur joke. But I may be wrong.
Longoria sent a pic of “himself” to some chick (nsfw)
allegedly…
Right. I wasn’t sure if it was meant to be a joke inside a joke or not. Because it worked well if it was.
It is all about the home grown guys. Fans of other teams are not going to respect the guys that come to the Yanks in free agency for the most part. Even trades can be hairy.
Other than the core 4, I think Cano probably gets the most respect from other fans. He comes across as a pretty likeable guy.
I hope Girardi does it again tonight.
Twice.
Hope he does it even if the reliever is ready, just to mess with Gardenhire.
I apologize for the off topic note, but it’s being thrown around that Alfredo Aceves is out for the year on ESPN Radio.
send in a tip to the authors or put it on the off-topic thread.
I can see why the move would annoy Gardenhire but it’s true that his comments just come across as whiny. If he doesn’t like the rule, he should take it up with the commissioner and etc. rather than the media.
So the Yankees are going to get blamed by probably everyone while the Sox for BS’ing about Beckett gets a pass.
Well Beckett went on the DL the next day, so seems that they more were odd on the procedure then bs-ing.
I need to get me one of those unwritten rule books.