Yanks opt to push back Vazquez
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A fourth-inning sight all too familiar to Yankee fans. AP Photo/Bill Kostroun
Updated (4:54 p.m.): With the luxury of an off-day this Thursday, the Yankees have chosen to push back Javier Vazquez‘s next outing. Instead of pitching on Friday in Boston, the beleaguered starter will take the ball on Monday in Detroit (and then again on Saturday, May 15 at home against the Twins). “We’ll give him a couple days to catch his breath, Joe Girardi said to the beat writers.
Vazquez, unfairly blamed by many Yankee fans for the 2004 ALCS collapse, has had a rough reintroduction to the Bronx. He’s 1-3 with a 9.78 ERA, and in five starts, he’s thrown just 23 innings. He hasn’t pitched out of the fourth inning since April 20, and he retired just nine of the 19 White Sox he faced on Saturday. Instead of throwing him to the Fenway wolves, the Yankees will have Vazquez throw a side session later this week before he can pitch with the luxury of a vast Comerica Park outfield behind him.
After Saturday’s outing, Frankie Piliere, a former scout and current FanHouse author, speculated that Vazquez’s troubles were mechanic in nature, and the team seems to agree with this assessment. “I believe he’s healthy,” Girardi said.
According to reports from the clubhouse, Vazquez asked for the ball on Friday, but the Yankees wanted him to take a few extra days. When asked if Javy’s problems are mental or physical, Joe Girardi said, “It becomes both.” While I would prefer to see the team skip him in Boston, I have to wonder then if this obvious lack of faith will impact that mental side of the game.
Meanwhile, a closer examination of the numbers — albeit in a small sample — raise some eyebrows. The Tigers have emerged as one of the league’s top offensive teams. Detroit is hitting .281/.362/.432 overall and .282/.372/.426 at home. Boston is hitting .260/.333/.438 overall but just .246/.318/.415 at Fenway. While the Red Sox have historically been good fly-ball hitters at home, early data this year indicates that Detroit could pose more of a problem for Javy than the Red Sox. If this move is about mental composure, the Yanks could see this backfire. If it is about getting Javy’s mechanics back in line, they can use the off day to have him throw an extended bullpen session to work out the kinks.
Girardi, meanwhile, urged everyone to look past the team’s opponents. “Everybody’s going to think it’s the Red Sox,” he said. “At some point you’ve got to do something a little bit different.”
As an added bonus, though, by pushing Vazquez back a few days, the Yankees will also give Andy Pettitte an extra day off. He’ll pitch on Tuesday in Detroit instead of Monday, and Phil Hughes, CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett will match up with Josh Beckett, Clay Buchholz and Jon Lester in Boston.
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The Mason Williams Watch
So Hughes pitches Friday?
(this would hold tremendously awesome potential just cos I’m going)
Wow you dodged a bullet there.
Heh, I saw Vazquez on Saturday. So no, not really.
My condolences.
I got to see Hughes pitch yesterday, it was heavenly.
Probably for the best. It’s still early, the most important thing right now is to get straightened out. I don’t see how a little extra break to work on things couldn’t help.
Yep. This. And it doesn’t make him a headcase, IIRC Andy got pushed back a few times last year and he was fine with it.
It always felt like Andy got pushed back to keep him healthy, while this is just as much a move lacking confidence in Javier. I hope he doesn’t get down on himself.
Still, it’s necessary though. More than anything, I’d hate for the Red Sox to fluke out a win against him and start to turn things around. Having the Rays be good is enough of a problem already without the Red Sox mucking things up.
So, at least he’ll miss both Boston series’ and the Mets series, which get the most attention from the fans, though he will have to face Tampa in a couple weeks. But, if it’s not on the way to being sorted out by then, then we may have bigger problems than that…
I hope he and Eiland are poring over video to see if it’s a mechanical issue. His velocity needs to return for him to be effective, hopefully they, in the extra time, can figure it out.
It IS a mechanical issue, and I’m sure both Eiland and he know what it is. Pitchers’ mechanics isn’t as simple as knowing WHAT to do, but in getting the body to actually do it intuitively.
We hope they already know what it is, but no one is sure. If they know exactly what it is, it shouldn’t take too long to correct, as he has pitched without said mechanical issue a lot more in his career than with it, otherwise he’d be out of baseball. It’s not like he’s Rocky trying to learn to fight right-handed, he just needs to get back to where he has been for most of his career.
No word on if his current issues are tied to mechanical problems or a possible injury?
Did you read the post?
There have been updates to the post, possibly since Dax J asked his question.
The team says no injury, and video shows some altered mechanics.
The mechanics problem is that he isn’t mentally tough. I heard McCarver quoted as saying that when Bob Gibson had mechanical problems, he would throw at everyone before climbing to the top of the St. Louis Arch and making human sacrifices to the baseball gods. Since the baseball gods are scared of Gibson too, they would correct his mechanical problems for him.
Hey, who’s 16-8 and defending World Champions!!!
rule #1: when talking about pitching, always mention Bob Gibson.
Fact: Bob Gibson once threw at his own catcher.
Did he bean McCarver? That would explain a lot.
So the Yanks think the potential psychological damage from pitching bad in Bos is worse than the potential psychological damage of Damon going deep on Javy in the first inning in Det. Pick your poison I guess.
maybe it doesn’t have anything to do with who he’s facing and it has to do with the fact that it’s a day off that happened to fall right on his day to pitch, and they figure extra time off to get his mechanics right will help?
This.
But realistically the fact that his next start comes in Fenway IS a factor.
Well, if it’s just a matter of physical mechanics more time sounds fine; but Javy’s confidence has to be shaken and skipping Bos adds to rather than abates the pressure he’s under.
Vazquez is getting skipped. Good. He’s not playing Boston. Good. He’s going to play a much better(atleast IMO) Tigers offense. Bad.
Though pitching in Detroit is probably better than pitching in Boston, especially for a fly ball pitcher. The Sox still crush the ball in Fenway (though not yet in this season’s SSS)
That’s the problem with this move. Detroit as a team is hitting .281/.362/.432 overall and .282/.372/.426 at home. Boston is hitting .260/.333/.438 overall but just .246/.318/.415. Friday night in Boston could be a better idea than Detroit.
I don’t think it would matter whom the Yankees were facing in the next two scheduled Javy starts; I feel as if they’d've skipped his start on Friday no matter the opponent.
While that’s true, if you’re into pitcher vs. batter histories, only 2 regular players on Det (Cabrera, Damon) have more than 10 PA against him with good numbers. Boston could put 6 guys in their lineup with good numbers against him. Combine that with the potential help of the ballpark and the slightly lowered attention of a Monday vs. Det against a Friday night against Bos and I think you have to take your chances and hold him back.
Sample sizes are too small though, the Tigers have faced better pitching on the road than at home. The Sox are historically significantly better at home than on the road.
Tigers at home in 2009 .270/.344/.432
Red Sox at home in 2009 .284/.365/.498
I think the 2009 numbers are more reflective than the 2010 numbers.
I think the 2009 numbers are more reflective than the 2010 numbers.
I can’t agree. I do agree with the sample sizes probably being too small but these two teams are different than they were in 2009. You can pretty much assume that Boston is going to hit better at home by the time the season’s over, though.
This is a poor move IMO. The Boston lineup is nothing to be afraid of. I don’t care if it’s at Fenway or not. The Tigers offense has the top batting avgerage in all of baseball and has scored more runs than Boston.
Let him go out there and pitch.
Its for the best. He’s shown absolutely nothing to this point (lets face it, when people are pointing to the extremely mediocre A’s game and first game against the Angels as signs of progress, he’s shown nothing) Getting lit up in Boston won’t do anything to help his confidence or turn the fans to his side.
And getting lit up in Detroit will?
but if you think he’s that bad, then what’s the point of pitching him at all? the idea it seems is to let him take a deep breath and try to address the issue.. because if he comes out anywhere with the junk he’s been throwing he’s going to get lit up period
Well, the Yanks are sending mixed messages. They’re saying it’s mechanical and maybe mental. If it’s mechanical, then fine. Use the off-day as an extended bullpen and fix it. If it’s mental, he’s just going to have to keep pitching until he has a good start and can grow confidence. In that case, just let him throw.
It probably doesn’t make too much sense to pitch him in Boston considering the park and the way he pitches. But we shouldn’t expect Detroit to be some pitching panacea either.
It probably doesn’t make too much sense to pitch him in Boston considering the park and the way he pitches. But we shouldn’t expect Detroit to be some pitching panacea either
Agreed, unless the (presumed) mechanical flaw is fixed, and there’s a better chance of that being fixed in 10 days than in 5. That’s the biggest part to me, if Detroit was first, would they pitch him in Detroit, or take advantage of the schedule and skip him until Boston? At this point I think they would do the same thing if the opponents were reversed.
But we shouldn’t expect Detroit to be some pitching panacea either.
Thats not the point, and no one expects that. The point is that the extra 5 days off will allow him a better chance to right what is wrong. Especially those first five days, when he can focus 100% on what is wrong instead of preparing to make a start. It isn’t often pitchers get a chance to do that during the regular season.
We’re sort of talking past each other, but I agree with you as long as the problem is mechanical and not mental/physical. He can’t fix a mental problem by not pitching in Boston really, and he’s still going to have to prepare for the Tigers.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see how you could not think this is a mechanical problem, at least in part. Loosing a few MPH certainly points in that direction. Even if it did start as a mental problem that has manifested itself in his mechanics, it is presumptuous to assume that the only way he can fix it is to gain confidence. Perhaps a week focusing solely on his stuff and not his next start is exactly what he needs – hard to speculate from where you or I are without interacting with him.
As for the last possibility, if it is a physical issue why wouldn’t skipping a start help? (I assume by physical you mean injury or fatigue)
I think the coaching staff is betting that the Sox’s anemic hitting at home is likely a very temporary situation. Javy + Green Monster = Opposite of Fun.
Getting lit up in Boston won’t do anything to help his confidence or turn the fans to his side.
It really doesn’t matter whether or not the “fans” are on his side…Those who are booing or declaring the trade a bust already seem generally to be looking for a problem they can complain about. I mean we are talking about a fan base that recently booed one of the greatest players of our generation even as he carried the team to the playoffs and another for simply wearing a particular number.
In other words, those who have a long-term outlook generally see a pitcher with mechanical problems and expect that it can be corrected given his past history, although it may take time. Those with a short-term outlook seem to have been down on the trade from the beginning and generally see a pitcher who “can’t handle” NY.
Even if Javy comes back after the short break, problem corrected, and pitches several gems, there will be those who will claim that this isn’t the “real” Javy and will be just lying in wait for an inning in which he struggles to strike up the boos again.
To be clear, I am not saying that Javy hasn’t struggled, just that I think that for some “fans” his performance won’t really matter. It’s just that his struggles have given them the latest target in the game of “Let’s Boo a Yankee.”
Agreed. Javy is to the point where he could throw 3 straight shutouts and would get booed in his 4th game for giving up an early HR. It is what it is. Those who are booers have already decided to boo.
I do like the idea of sweeping the Sox with (arguably) our top 3 starters and putting them in a deep hole however.
Disappointing – seems like they’re making a big deal about the Boston series. It’s May 3 for Mo’s sake. As much as I like the opportunity given to Hughes, I’d like to see them not panic and let him pitch his way out of it. A great outing in Fenway would do wonders for his confidence – in my opinion.
For what it’s worth, Hughes is pitching in Boston no matter what. He would have drawn the Saturday start had they not skipped Javy.
I agree to a point, but if they know there is a mechanical issue, it makes sense to take advantage of the off day to make sure it’s fixed. A great outing in Fenway would be great for his confidence, but if the doesn’t have the tools to get it done, no point in throwing him out there when there is a great alternative. It’s not like they are reshuffling the rotation, or pitching someone on 3 day’s rest.
It’s not like they are reshuffling the rotation, or pitching someone on 3 day’s rest.
This.
The schedule presents them with an opportunity to step back, address the situation, see if they can fix it, and get back on track. It probably wouldn’t have happened if it required a radical reshuffling of the rotation.
And hey, isn’t one of the themes of the last couple days that some of Detroit’s numbers are due to regress because of BABIP’s? Well Boston’s could increase for the same reason. So, maybe they start regressing on Monday.
Javy would have to pitch in Detroit either way. Unless we’re saying a good start in Boston would cause a good start in Detroit, I don’t see how it matters all that much. In Detroit he won’t have 35,000 idiots screaming “Jaaaaaaaaaaavy, Jaaaaaaaaaaavy” every pitch. I mean I hate to ramble here, but it seems like in general, Yankees pitchers don’t fare all that well in Boston, no matter who they are.
I mean I hate to ramble here, but it seems like in general, Yankees pitchers don’t fare all that well in Boston,
no matter who they are.unless they are named Andy Pettitte.I was just gonna say that but didn’t want to get in trouble for babbling on about Andy, and even he has a WHIP over 1.5 there and a BABIP against of .354 o_O
For all that Detroit is showing a better offense, I’d still rather see Javy in Comerica than in Fenway, which I can’t help but imagine as a horror show similar to yesterday’s Sunday night baseball due to his low velocity and Fenway being Fenway. But you’re all free to call me out on it should Monday do poorly for the Javster.
The Tigers have the highest BABIP of baseball so it would be nice to see that regress in time for the Yankees series. Especially Monday. Well, Thursday too (since I will be at that game).
The pitchers Boston has faced at home: CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Wade Davis, James Shields, Matt Garza, Jeff Niemann, Colby Lewis, Matt Harrison, C.J. Wilson, Jeremy Guthrie, Brian Matusz, David Hernandez.
The pitchers Detroit has faced at home: David Huff, Mitch Talbot, Jake Westbrook, Luke Hochevar, Brian Bannister, Kyle Davies, Francisco Liriano, Scott Baker, Carl Pavano, Joel Pineiro, Scott Kazmir, Jered Weaver.
And I know the Tigers got both Greinke and King Felix on the road. It’s definitely too early to be looking at home/road splits to determine much as far as trends. Boston has been hitting much better on the road (a lot driven by one game in Toronto) but we know they will end the year significantly better at home.
Also Detroit scored 20 in a 3 game stretch from the 11th to the 13th, and 44 the other 9 games. Meanwhile, Boston scored 11 against Tampa, and 46 the other 9 games.
Everyone thinks the fans are panicking early, but its the Yanks who are panicking early. I don’t get why you move him back. If mechanics are the issue, I would think pitching is the only way to work them out. I’m not the biggest believer in Javy and have not been from the get go, but I would keep throwing him out there if it was up to me. He is not this bad.
Skipping one start (that lines up perfectly with the off-day) when they think he has mechanical issues to work on (which I would imagine he works on with Eiland/others via video) is not panicking. As Steve H. said above, it’s not like they’re reshuffling the rotation or making someone go on three days’ rest.
SSS on the tams home/away splits…likely that Detroit is a better hitting team though.
However…
Javy getting lit up in Fenway >>>>> getting lit up in Detroit.
Whereas, the MSM, the community (east coast thing), and the fact that the Red Sox game is greater importance than a Tiger game plus throw in the whole working on correctons and it seems to be the best move.
The just hope the Phil restrictions don’t come into play or that he hits a wall in August/September. I wish the plan is 25-28 starts with no more than 110 pitches total per & not using him ever after a 35 pitch inning is the plan versus this stupid 175 inning cap. If his 175 innings are due to 25 GS- @ 7IP avg. games and they slow him down come October because of inning limits…that would be (beyond Joba rules) insane.
Aww.. I wonder how he took the news. His feeling might be hurt! haha
/sadface
I hate to quote steve phillips but he made a good point on the FAN today- he said the worst thing would be for Javy to start friday, blow up by the 3rd inning and then the bullpen would be utterly taxed for the entire Boston series. i’d have to agree with that
So he doesn’t get to face a team that is struggling offensively, but he’ll be facing the Twins and Tigers?
I really hope the rest helps.
total domination