Jul
21

AL East trade winds starting to blow

By

If you went to bed at a reasonable hour last night, you might have missed the semi-late breaking rumor that had the Phillies in talks with the Astros to acquire Roy Oswalt. Why does this matter to the Yankees? Because a sister move would involve a trade of Jayson Werth (for payroll reasons, apparently), and the word on the street has the Rays as the front runners to land him. Philadelphia would then call up top prospect Domonic Brown in an effort to field an all lefthanded lineup.

As far as we know, the deals are not close, but Tampa certainly has the pieces to get a Werth deal done. Given their respective track records, Andrew Friedman will probably take Ruben Amaro to the cleaners if the trade does in fact happen. Tampa already has a good offense (.337 wOBA, sixth best in baseball) and a great defense (+22.7 UZR, third best), and adding a player of Werth’s caliber will only make them better. Given the Yanks’ current designated hitter situation, I can’t help but hope that Brian Cashman swoops in ninja-style and steals Werth away from Tampa.

  • http://www.newyorkstateofsports.com Adam

    I like the idea of Cashman being a ninja

  • Pat D

    What would you give up for Werth, Mike? Since he’s only a rental, after all.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’d do McAllister plus one of the millions of infielders – Adams, Nunez, CoJo, etc. Preferably not Adams though.

      • Andy In Sunny Daytona

        I would think you would prefer Nunez. I like how you threw the other 2 in there though.

        /mikehatesdominicans’d

      • Rose

        Yeah but wouldn’t Tampa offer something infinitely better than that?

        • A.D.

          If Tampa doesn’t touch Jennings or Hellickson (or Davis/Niemann) then it really cant be that much better, no?

          Figure they could move a young starter, but I double Jennings since they need him post-Crawford.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            If Tampa gives up Jennings or Hellickson for Werth, I’ll drive Jayson to Tampa myself.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            They have more arms than they know what to do with. Matt Moore, Nick Barnese, Alex Torres, and Alex Colome are all better than any pitching prospect the Yanks could offer.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Jayson Werth, wOBA by Month, 2010:

          April- .415
          May- .390
          June- .379
          July- .307

          Am I the only one excited to see Jayson Werth possibly get traded to the Rays? I mean, if they give up a legit prospect for him, that’s probably a good thing for us. Jayson Werth is a decent bat, but he’s not looked good recently and it’s not like we’re incapable of defeating a team with Jayson Werth on it (see also: 2009).

          Of course, if he leaves in the winter and the Rays get two top draft picks better than what they gave up, then forget what I said.

          • zs190

            It’s Ruben Amaro we are talking about here and he’s trying to trade Jayson Werth to clear salary space to trade for Roy Oswalt and call up Dom Brown so he can keep Raul Ibanez in the lineup.

            This has all the making of a Ruben Amaro pulling Bill Bavasi here.

          • zs190

            Jayson Werth is as much as a lock of going FA as anyone really. He’s only making 7 million this year and he’s on the wrong side of 30 already, this is his last chance for a big contract and he knows it(even acknowledged in a public interview).

            95+% chance he leaves as a FA and give whoever trade for him the 2 picks.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              True, but if the prospect(s) the Rays give up is legit, it’s still probably a good thing.

              One real established prospect is better than two high draft picks.

      • zs190

        I’m surprised you wouldn’t offer more. He’s a 4-5 win player at least and would be worth 1-1.5 win at least over whoever we are using at DH/Bench. He’s a lock to reject arbitration so it’s pretty much a guaranteed 2 picks.

  • Ross in Jersey

    I think the Red Sox could land Werth for Kevin Cash and a combination of A level players from their outstanding farm system.

    /Gammons’d

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      Theo’s parts with prospects less willingly than he might part with his first born.” — 7.21.10, Larry Lucchino on WEEI’s Dennis and Callahan

      • Pat D

        Has he had a first born? If so is that future genius eligible to be included in a trade? The Phils should jump all over that. The kid, however old, would probably be better now than Amaro.

        • Klemy

          He did. But you never heard about it, because he traded the child.

          • Pat D

            Sounds like he didn’t get much value then.

    • Rose

      Remember when he got Mark Loretta for Doug Mirabelli?

      Then they traded Doug Mirabelli BACK for a far worse catcher and a throw away piece (Cla Meredith).

      Never understood it.

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        Mark Loretta put up an 80 OPS+ for Boston. This seems like an odd thing to be perturbed about. And IIRC, Boston was lampooned for giving up too much because they were desperate to get Mirabelli back.

        • Ed

          Meredith was a respectable reliever. Great first season in San Diego, up and down but overall average after that. They paid a high price for a backup catcher. Look what we gave up for Jose Molina – a AA reliever that never reached the majors.

    • Rose

      The Red Sox could very well swoop in and try to grab Werth…as they have been looking for an OF. But Theo’s too cheap to go head-to-head for him against the Rays and possibly the Yanks. He usually has to rely on the overhype of a crop of mediocre prospects he has first…and then go from there. Hording all of the good ones.

      • Pat D

        Yet according to Olney if they remain in third place, they’re going to block a lot of potential waiver trades.

        • Rose

          So the Yanks better make a move while they can then…

        • Ed

          And if they do that aggressively, I’m sure they’ll end up getting stuck with some players. Everyone is stingy with money nowadays, and I’m sure it’ll really sting the Sox to have to pay the luxury tax on players they didn’t really want.

  • Sweet Dick Willie

    Where would the Rays play Werth?

    He’s not taking Crawford’s place. Ditto Zobrist. I guess you could sit BJ’s ass. But then who plays CF? Seems like kind of a waste to DH Werth.

    Maybe I’m missing something, but that doesn’t appear to be a great fit.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      LF – Crawford
      CF – Upton
      RF – Werth
      2B – Zobrist

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        That.

    • Pat D

      Zobrist does seem to bounce between RF and 2B. Maybe they would put him back at 2B permanently.

  • crawdaddie

    Then they sit that Rodriquez kid?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      And his .298 OBP? Yes.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Last I checked, Sean Rodriguez was hitting mammoth homers off us in Spring Training.

        /AJax’d

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          /Heyman’d (who is like in love with him)

  • Operation Venditte

    I dont want Werth he is striking out way too much this year and honestly what would we do with him other then platoon him with Grandy.

    • Brien Jackson

      You missed the part where we don’t have a useful full-time DH?

      I confess though, after thinking about it after some coffee this morning, I like Kabak’s idea to call up Montero a little more.

      • Rose

        Do we know why Montero was struggling at first? Was it because he couldn’t adjust to the pitching and then finally did?

        If that is the case…it might be even harder for him to do it all over again once he’s called up.

        • Brien Jackson

          Well sure, the Yankees coaches and development people would have to have confidence he could hit major league pitchers. If they do, I don’t see any reason to leave him in AAA. As Moshe said last night on Twitter, even his catching couldn’t be THAT much worse than Posada’s.

      • Operation Venditte

        Thats true we need a DH but I would rather spend the prospects on Adam Dunn instead of Werth…
        Werth .283/.373/.505 92/46 K/BB 13HR
        Dunn .283/.372/.568 115/45 K/BB 22HR
        I realize thier numbers are quite similar but I would rather have Dunn and his HR and ability to play first base on occasion (Well not so much play as just stand there and pick up the ball)

        • Rose

          Dunn will never play 1B. If necessary, they would move Swisher or Miranda there (and put whoever isn’t there out of these 2 in RF). Dunn would stay at DH just as if he were Nick Johnson 2.0

          At least I hope.

        • Brien Jackson

          Dunn will take more prospects to get, and Werth can at least play the outfield too, giving you more lineup flexibility.

        • Kiersten

          If we could get Dunn for less than Werth then I’m all for Dunn. But if it’s gonna cost the same, I’d much rather have someone with some defensive value.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            That.

            I’d prefer Dunn to Werth in the abstract, but Werth will probably be cheaper to acquire, making him the batter acquisition.

      • Klemy

        It’s been said all along that he’s not ready though. Does his recent hot streak negate all of that talk? I want to see him come up as much as anyone, but is it a good move for the team this year? I’m glad that I don’t have to make the decision.

      • Poopy Pants

        LOL @ all the people suddenly wanting Montero to be called up (and stunt his growth) this year just because he finally had a good hitting week.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I bet it’s the beard. It smells too much like Utley’s wife and it distracts him.

      • Pat D

        I’ve always thought that Werth was getting distracted because he was worried that Edge would jump out of the stands and start swinging a chair at him. All in the name of gimmick infrigement.

        http://www.sportsfanlive.com/r.....-Werth.jpg

        • Klemy

          It is uncanny, isn’t it? lol

    • dsss

      Forget trading for Werth; pick up Crawford in the off season; have Grandy be the 4th OF- it’s about what he is good for at this point.

  • Chris0313

    I wouldn’t call up Montero unless we can guarantee that he plays every day and he catches at least 3 games a week. That means, we trade Francisco Cervelli or we carry 3 catchers.

    • Brien Jackson

      Cervelli still has options doesn’t he?

    • A.D.

      Presumably just go 3 catchers let Monetero/Posada Catch/DH

    • Randy A.

      Lets say they call him up just before September call-ups so he is then eligible for the post-season roster (and added to the 40-man roster). If he DHs for the Yankees then he wont be missing out on any possible innings where he could have been catching frequently unless you want to get all up in arms about him catching in the AAA Playoffs. There is no real loss to his progress as a catcher by letting him DH with the Yankees for the remainder of the season beginning in late August sometime. Guaranteeing that he catches 3 times a week in the majors is just dumb to say.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        There is no real loss to his progress as a catcher by letting him DH with the Yankees for the remainder of the season beginning in late August sometime.

        Disagreed. That’s a solid month’s worth of development he’ll lose.

        • Ed

          Doesn’t the minor league season end at the beginning of September? Won’t he lose like 2 weeks tops under that plan?

          If he’s actually playing regularly, I’d think a month hitting major league pitching (well, September quality ML pitching) would be worth more than 2 weeks catching.

          • Brien Jackson

            Hell, I’d let him catch in the majors.

    • Tom Zig

      Here’s the plan:

      Montero DHs when Jorge is catching
      Montero is catching when Jorge is DHing or sitting on the bench
      Mirahames is DHing when Montero is catching and Jorge is on the bench.

      Romine gets called up to AAA.

      Cervelli goes to DSL1 to be Melvin’s personal caddy.

      • Chris0313

        IETC

  • ZZ

    Who would have thought trading away Cliff Lee instead of pairing him with Halladay at the top of your rotation was a bad idea? :Roll:

    • Accent Shallow

      But you see, they had to resign Joe Blanton! And restock their farm with mediocre prospects!

  • http://riveravablues.com kevin

    let posada go he suck and callup montero

  • Abbey

    Why would you want to trade Cervelli. He is only 24 years old, considered by many(including Baseball America) as the best defensive catcher in the Yankee farm system several years in a row.
    All of a sudden he forgot to catch?? Granted his batting average has been sub-par so far this year, however still plenty of time to improve.
    Yankees pitching staff love to have him behind the plate.
    Mike Axisa in particular apparently has no patience with a young 24 year old developing catcher?

    • Brien Jackson

      Cervelli will never have the bat to be a starting catcher for the Yankees.

      • Abbey

        Who said that to be a starting Yankee catcher you have to have a certain BA.??
        As long as you prove yourself defensively and your BA is average, thats all that matters. How many teams out there have 300 hitting catchers?
        Cervelli from my point of view is going nowhere, he is not in the trading block

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Nobody said he was on the trading block.

          What we did say is, at the moment he’s not cutting it either defensively or offensively, and if a reasonably priced upgrade can be found, we should look into it.

        • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

          There are other statistics besides Batting average, that tell you Cervelli is a below average hitter. He’s always been just that.

          Cervelli is a backup catcher at the major league level. Nothing against Cervelli, but that’s what he is.

          Also, having an average “BA” wouldn’t mean much, especially if his OPS isn’t even touching a .700 OPS. That’s called a backup catcher. On top of the fact that he hasn’t hit at all since May.

          People need to get out of this obsession that Cervelli is a starting catcher at the big league level. Yes, he has value to the Yankees. But Cervelli has already hit his ceiling. If my memory serves me right,Cervelli was called up from Double-A in 2009, while he was slumping with a sub.200BA in Double-A. He’s was always a mediocre hitter in the minors.

          He’s not suddenly going to start hitting enough to be a good starting catcher. He has defensive value, and that’s why he’s on the team.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Cervelli… is considered by many( including Baseball America) as the best defensive catcher in the Yankee farm system several years in a row.

      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

      • Chris0313

        Cervelli is a terrible defensive catcher. What Baseball America sees in him is beyond me.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          “Terrible” is a bit strong, IMO. He’s slightly above average: nothing special, but not bad either.

        • Abbey

          So now Baseball America doesn’t know anything about baseball!!
          They don’t know anything about what a defensive catcher is??
          Yankees pitching staff collectivelly like Cervelli behind the plate probably because he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!!!!
          Yankees organization high on Cervelli also unimportant!!!
          I ‘ll leave it at that

          • jsbrendog (returns)

            please do.

        • Poopy Pants

          So who is this amazing defensive catcher in the Yankees system?
          Baseball America didn’t say he’s the best in the league. Try reading, fools.

  • Reggie C.

    Would Werth be a half season pickup to whom we offer arbitration but then let walk IF cashman loses interest in crawford? Aside from the legit interest in Lee, we’re all speculating cash’s desire to sign another expensive FA.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      All depends on price.

      If you can get Werth for a prospect significantly worse than who you think you can draft with the two picks he gives you next June, do it.

      If not, pass.

      • Ed

        He doesn’t have to be that cheap to worth doing.

        If you value the prospect(s) you give up the same as the picks you’d receive, you still do the trade easily. I’d still do the trade if I valued the prospects a little more than the picks. Werth would be a substantial upgrade over a Miranda/Thames DH platoon. With Jeter, A-Rod, Tex, and Granderson all having off years, the DH upgrade is worthwhile.

    • Randy A.

      The emergemce of Brett Gardner as a viable offensive option in left field has reduced the need for Crawford significantly. He is far cheaper than Crawford will be and approximates the same offensive value that Crawford has. I doubt they would pay a lot for such a small marginal improvement in value.

      • Klemy

        Agreed.

        At the begging of the year, I thought for sure we’d be in on Crawford or Werth for an OF spot. Now, I don’t see a point to it if they think Gardner reproduces his performance beyond this year.

        • Poopy Pants

          Move Gardner to CF and get a LF. Trade Granderson for something…anything.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    One of the worst trades ever. Reason why they aren’t leading the NL East. I think Amaro is fired at the end of this year. I just don’t see them making the playoffs.

    • Klemy

      I think a lot of other things, injuries among them, have kept them out of first place in the NL East.

      I don’t think that trade is the main reason why. They basically swapped an ace for an ace, so while I agree that the trade wasn’t all that helpful as others might have been, I don’t think it can be blamed for their shortcomings.

  • JoeC

    Amaro refused to talk to the Yankees when he was trying to trade Cliff Lee. Why would he talk to the Yankees about Jason Werth?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Because that was then and this is now. The circumstances have changed.

      • JoeC

        You are probably right. But some GMs seem to be somewhat irrational when dealing with the Yankees. Anyway, what whould the Phillies want from us? They’re not getting Montero or Romine. And I imagine that Adams and Nunez have little appeal to them (Utley and Rollins).

    • Rose

      Cliff Lee >>>> Jason Werth

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        That too.

        Ruben wouldn’t mind trading Werth to his chief title competitor because he knows Werth is good but not a “swing the balance of power” kinda guy.

        Cliff Lee is a “swing the balance of power” kinda guy. If Ruben Amaro had traded Cliff Lee to the Yankees this winter, he’d be basically punting on the 2010 season and conceding it to us.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          If Ruben Amaro had traded Cliff Lee to the Yankees this winter, he’d be basically punting on the 2010 season and conceding it to us.

          Well, Amaro basically punted the 2010 season and conceded it to the Yanks when he traded Lee to Seattle.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            No. Trading Lee to Seattle, an interesting dark horse candidate who might be good and might not, would not remotely have been the same as trading Lee to the Yankees, who we all know are the preemptive favorites.

    • Tom Zig

      Well in fairness we just embarrassed his team in the WS, if you were Ruben, would YOU want to trade your best pitcher to make the team that just beat you, even better?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Especially when he’s the only pitcher on your team that beat them.

  • Reggie C.

    Amaro will ask for a couple solid AAA or AA pitching prospects (e.g., phelps & noesi), but then zero in on Heathcott.

    Why? The Phillies absolutely love drafting toolsy HS outfielders, and Heathcott fits the bill. I think Cashman hangs up when Amaro spills it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Give’em Melky Mesa instead.

  • JoeC

    That makes sense. Still, if Amaro trades us Werth, he faces the possibility of facing him in the World Series. How do you think the fans in Philly would react after Werth goes 3-4 with 2 doubles and a homer off Cole Hamels in game 2?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      You could say the same thing if he traded him to Tampa.

      • JoeC

        Exactly. Maybe i shouldn’t try and read Amaro’s mind anyway. I’m still baffled as to why you trade Cliff Lee to save money so you can sign Placido Palanco….

  • Accent Shallow

    The Yankees should acquire Werth solely so the rest of MLB isn’t subjected to his awful choice of facial hair.

    • Brien Jackson

      IETC.

  • Brien Jackson

    Also, WTF is Philly doing?