Jul
25

Heyman: Yanks made ‘big proposal’ on Soria

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In a piece that incorrectly labels the July trade market as one for the buyers, Jon Heyman leads with some Yankee dirt. He says the team is looking to be in on some big names this week and writes that the team has made “a big proposal” to the Royals for Joakim Soria. The Yanks want to upgrade their bullpen this week, but Soria won’t come cheap. He’s emerged as one of the game’s best relievers, non-Mariano division, and is under contract through 2011 with three club options with innings pitched escalators that total $22.75 million. Heyman also notes that the Bombers “have been in touch” with Washington over Adam Dunn but have so far found the price to be “prohibitive.”

  • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

    I wonder what the offer for Soria was, if the rumor is true.

    • http://fmylife.com Bryan

      Maybe they included Joba? Kinda makes sense, deal a reliever for a reliever.

      • The Three Amigos

        There is no way they would deal Joba for Soria, but not Haren. That is crazy.

        • http://fmylife.com Bryan

          No it’s really not. In terms of a reliever, I’d much rather have Joakim Soria than Joba at this point.

          • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

            Yes, it totally is, because Haren >>>> Soria.

            • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

              For the $ amount and time you get to keep Soria for? Nope. Not a chance.

              This has to stop. It’s not an incontrovertible law that Starting Pitching Always Trumps Relievers Every Time Forever. People need to stop taking an absolute view of something that is really rather more complicated.

              • TheZack

                Yes, yes it is. Sure, its not an absolute rule, but Haren isn’t just a starting pitcher, he’s a legit #2 with a pretty friendly deal. Soria is what, the 8th inning guy and leverage in case Mo retires?

                • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

                  Uh huh, and they’re going to pay him, what, $11 million next year? For one season? And then he’ll get himself a nice contract that’s at least as much as Lackey’s, in which case the Yankees will likely just let him go. And then you have nothing. Oh, and if they really do want him, well, he’ll be a free agent after next year. Starting pitching is just not something the Yankees need at the moment. A bullpen ace is.

                  I don’t think you understand how truly team-friendly awesome Soria’s deal really is.

                  • The Three Amigos

                    Haren is signed through 2013 more years.

                    • The Three Amigos

                      **error … through 2013.

        • http://twitter.com/JoeySSL JoeyH

          I don’t think that was the deal. I believe it was they weren’t going to give money and trade Joba. Something with financials involved.

  • RalphieD

    they definitly cant swing a soria deal AND a haren deal right?…

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Unless they steal one of the two, it’s extremely doubtful I’d think.

  • Chris

    I hate these reports like the Yankees making a “big offer” for Soria. What does that even mean? There are certainly “big offers” that are reasonable for Soria and others that would be ridiculous.

    As for the buyers market comment, I blame his editor. Heyman uses the term “buyers market” simply to refer to those teams that are buyers at the trade deadline. The editor (I assume) twisted that to make the headline.

  • TarheelYankee

    I wonder if it could be that Yanks offer to KC is good enough w/o including any of our prime prospects or Jaba, and flip him to AZ for Haren?

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      The Yanks aren’t getting Haren. He’s been traded to the Angels.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Great, ZOMG at least we get to keep Joba! He’s great. Much better than Haren.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Haha, cool story. I don’t think so. The Yankees would have to deal a boatload of prospects for Soria, and although he’s only getting paid $3 million this year, he will continue to make more money, $4mil,$6mil, $8mil, etc.

      The Dbacks would probably want more than Soria in return as well, so you’re talking about dealing even more prospects. I don’t think the money would add up either.

      No way this happens. Plus Soria would be too good of an acquisition, and he’s probably more of a necessity at a more reasonable price (money wise.)

    • phughesisgod

      There goes that idea. Haren to the Angels. That came out of NOWHERE.

  • Sal

    I would rather have Soria then Haren. They can get a Ted Lilly or someone comparable. Haren could turn out to be “PAVANO the Sequil” staring Dan Haren.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Couldn’t any pitcher turn out to be a “Pavano the Sequil.” You can’t assume this would happen. Haren has a better track record as well.

      However, I do agree that Soria would be a more fitting acquisition than Haren.

    • Brooklyn Ed

      psst…the Yanks don’t want Lily. Ted Lily bascially begged the Yanks to sign him, but Cashman won’t budge.

      • mustang

        Almost right. Lily wanted to be a Yankee and Cashman went on to sign the great Kei Igawa.

        • mustang

          Not Cashman’s best move.
          LOL

          • Accent Shallow

            While Lilly is clearly much better than Igawa, I’m pretty ok with the Yankees not acquiring him. I doubt he’s a difference maker in ’07/’08, and maybe the Yankees don’t sign all three of CC/AJ/Tex if they’re paying Lilly ~$10-12M per year, instead of paying Igawa ~$6M per year.

            So yeah, bad move in isolation, but I’m not too broken up about it.

            • Accent Shallow

              Correction: Igawa makes $4M per year.

            • mustang

              1- I don’t think signing Lily effects CC/AJ/Tex.

              2- whatever the difference Lilly would of made in 07/08 is A LOT better then the difference that Igawa made which was nothing.

              3-Its a BAD move period. Cashman tried to save on the luxury tax (about 5 million) and ended up throwing 46 million (and yes people the bid rights is part of cost its not monopoly money) out the window.

              It was clearly the wrong move.

            • mustang

              “I’m not too broken up about it.”

              Yes, NOW but when Sidney Ponson was rolling his fat ass to the mound in the middle of a pennant race back in August 2008 and Igawa was in AAA you might of care a little more.

          • Randy A.

            To be fair, I believe the guy who was the Yankees scout in Japan who found and spoke highly of Kei Igawa is no longer with the organization. Don’t quote me on that though…

      • Mister Delaware

        As in “Cashman hasn’t budged for 3.5 years”?

        • mustang

          And Igawa hasn’t budged from AAA

        • Brooklyn Ed

          yeah that’s what i meant. th

          • Brooklyn Ed

            thanks..

      • MikeD

        Wasn’t Lilly available the same years the signed Pavano, Wright and Igawa? Or was it just Igawa? They should have went for Lilly above all those guys. He not only pitched in the AL, but he had to pitch against all the beasts of the AL East, was effective against the Red Sox, and craved pitching for the Yankees. Sometimes moves the Yankees make make no sense.

        • mustang

          Its just Igawa.

          “He not only pitched in the AL, but he had to pitch against all the beasts of the AL East, was effective against the Red Sox, and craved pitching for the Yankees.”

          Bingo!

  • radnom

    Wow. Yankees are swinging big across the board.

    It think its clear that SOMETHING is going to happen before the trading deadline, the question is what. I think the safe guess is on them acquiring Haren as opposed to Soria or Dunn, although I think Dunn would help them the most at this point, but the price just doesn’t seem right.

    • radnom

      aaaaand just I post that Haren goes to the Angels haha

  • Sal

    How about a blockbuster? Greinke and Soria for Joba, Montero, and some prospects?

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Dreaming big, I see.

    • http://twitter.com/marcos_aguirre Marcos

      Seeing as Soria and Greinke have fantastic contracts, the prospect list for that trade would be HUGE, literally, trading the farm away.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Pretty much.

    • Pasqua

      Beware Grienke in New York. That is a guy I would be very afraid for in a major market.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        This too.

      • pollo

        He’s going to be fine chillin in the 40/40 club with Cano, Jeter, ARod and CC.

        Actually. That’d be freaking hilarious.

  • Brooklyn Ed

    glad the Yanks are going after Soria. Cashman was about to draft him during the rule 5 a few years ago. but I guess the Royals did their homework.

  • Pat D

    Oh, good, let’s see the guesswork on the names that need to be mentioned for this proposal.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      My thought process exactly.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    Keith Law a few days ago said that he thought they would accept a Montero/Gardner package. So basically a pretty substantial package.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Gardner and Montero…That sounds like way too much for a reliever. Especially with how much Gardner has improved.

      • Accent Shallow

        Agreed.

      • MikeD

        Of course they’d accept Montero and Gardner for a relief pitcher! The Yankees would not accept that deal.

    • voice of reason

      That’s a bold statement by Keith Law, but I think he’s right. KC could probably be persuaded to accept a 4 win OF making the minimum and a top 5 prospect for a relief pitcher. Probably.

      • Randy A.

        Um, a 4-win outfielder making the minimum and one of the top offensive prospects in all of baseball for a reliever that has an annual value of around 1.8 wins per year and with previous shoulder problems? HA! I know we have to give up prospects to get Soria and his team-friendly deal, but that is WAYYYY too much.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    I would think Montero/DRob/two of Nova/Noesi/Betances/Brackman/Warren/Stoneburner/Banuelos/Adams

    • Accent Shallow

      I’m not voting for you for GM.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Never. That guy is crazy.

        Let’s just trade 3 of our top 5 best prospects(Montero, Brackman, and Banuelos)….That makes no sense whatsoever.

    • Jorge

      ….and I’d promptly not make that trade.

      If we’d like to play “hypothetical GM,” I’d say anything more than Joba, one of Nova/McAllister, and Adams should lead to the Yanks hanging up the phone.

      And yes, I’d like to apologize to the concept of reality for suggesting in another post that they’d be selling low with Joba by trading him for Haren.

      • joe

        I would make this deal giving up a boat load of prospects, but I want Zach Greinke thrown into this deal otherwise Hell no!

  • Pasqua

    Is it cynical of me to not believe a fucking word that comes out of people like John Heyman’s mouth (computer)? They link the Yanks to everything, all the time. The rise of immediate information has made these “reporters” scrounge for any piece of minutaie and post it as gospel. I’m just tapped out on the rumor mill, especially the rumor mill propogated by the MSM.

    • nsalem

      as long as people keep on reading it they will keep on writing it

  • Mattchu12

    I just played Royals GM in my head. And now that I’m back to Yankee Fan mode, I don’t like what I was thinking one, damn, bit.

  • http://twitter.com/JoeySSL JoeyH

    People are talking about parting with Montero for Soria? I’ll pass.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Montero>>>>Soria

  • Andrew Brotherton

    I wouldn’t accept anything less than Montero+ for Soria. I don’t think anyone would. Why would you accept less?

    • Evan3457

      Because the Yanks aren’t going to offer Montero for Soria, ever?

      Is this a trick question?

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Nah, the guy has been making absurd comments since earlier on this thread.

  • Will

    I would trade joba and montero for greinke and soria. provided i was confident that greinke would not end up in a mental hospital on zanex from all the pressure that he has already said he dont want. Girardi and the yanks have ruined Joba with all there rules crap. KC would be a good change for him and i like cervelli hits when he needs to and plays good defence, dont have posadas bat but who does. montero but with no defense. The yanks have sacrificed defence for power for to long.

    • boogie down

      I don’t want to speak for others but I feel like Joba and Montero for Greinke and Soria is almost a no-brainer. Thing is, I doubt KC would go for that.

      As for Cervelli, he’s not either of the things you said he is, to be frank. He’s stopped hitting altogether, let alone “when he needs to,” and he’s shown that his defense is average, at best. I think it was easy to characterize him as an above-average-to-very-good defensive catcher due to the consequences of playing as infrequently as he did and a backup should. He would be exceedingly well rested which, when combined with his age, would place him in peak physical condition to perform his defensive duties. These circumstances/attributes allowed him to cover up the flaws in his game and opened the door for some of us, myself included, to think he was a good defensive catcher. When Posada is at full-strength, he doesn’t have the luxury of playing once or twice a week due to the potency of his bat. Therefore, we are exposed to a great deal more of Posada than we are Cervelli and we resultantly draw such incorrect conclusions. Ceteris Parabis (namely playing time and health), Posada is a FAR greater hitter than Cervelli and only slightly worse defensively, IMO.

      • boogie down

        Basically, I’m saying that when Cervelli got a regular’s playing time, the veneer was pulled away from him. He proved, indisputably so, IMO, that he’s a backup.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    Seriously would everyone quit with the Yankees ruined Joba with the rules, can we just be honest and say that Joba really isn’t as good as we gave him credit for? He just isn’t, I’m sorry, he’s wildly inconsistent and he’s been living off those great two months for two years now.

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      Yup. Even if they did ‘mess with his head’, a good pitcher would succeed in such an easy middle relief role.

      Right now, Joba Chamberlain is not a good pitcher. And it’s really hard to say that it’s anyone’s fault but his own.

      • Rob

        The problem is they never fully developed him. Joba got 15 starts in the minors. Hughes got 60+. And it’s amazing to me that Joba has actually been the better major league starter between the two of them. So if Joba is not a good pitcher, Hughes is even worse.

  • Will

    LMAO There is a rotation for you, next season. CC, Lee, Burnett, Greinke, Hughes. throw Pettite in there if he dont retire. With are bats that would be pretty nasty.

  • Will

    For the most part i can agree with you, Joba is way to inconsistant. He has been living off the 2 great months. I just dont think they should have ever put him in the rotation. Had they kept him in the pen there would have been no need to be concerned about innings, he would not have droped mph off his fastball and he would still have that confidence. the yanks bringing him in and out off the rotation had to do something to his head.

  • cranky

    Cashman would be foolish to give up Montero for Soria. I don’t think he would do that. But he’s already made it clear that Montero is available in the right deal.

    In my opinion, Soria is one of the best relievers around. He’s a guy who’d make an incredibly good setup man for Mo until Mo retires, then step into the closer’s role himself. He’s that good. Having the opportunity to hang around Mo for the next year, or two, and learn from the master would probably only help to make him even better. And Soriano would make a big difference right away, as much of a difference, in his own way, as Haren would have made. So yes, I think Soriano is worth a lot and that the price for him would be steep.

    Giving away a cheap young hitter of Montero’s caliber for a reliever, though, isn’t going to happen. Maybe, if the deal were expanded a bit, I could see Montero getting included. but I can’t see anyone else besides Soriano on the KC roster whom the Yanks might want. KC would love to dump Guillen. But the if the Yanks were to take on Guillen’s salary, it would drive the price down in terms of players.
    On the other hand, I could see the Yanks being willing to pay a high price in terms of pitchers for Soria, and I’d be OK with them giving up anyone in their system outside of Banuelos.
    Joba+Betances for Soria? Both teams would be foolish not to take that deal.

  • rek4gehrig

    Soooooooooooooooooo many rumours…Jeez

  • Thomas Cassidy

    Joba, Nova, Warren, Adams/Nunez?

    • Rob

      This. Gets it d-u-n. hard to argue with that package and the Royals get two arms for their rotation, a middle infielder, and with Warren close to AAA.

      That’s a trade Cashman makes. If they start asking for better talent though all bets are off.

      • Thomas Cassidy

        That’s all I could think of that made sense. Maybe throw in McAllister, and Melancon/Miranda for Jose Guillen?

        • Rob

          Nope, don’t see Guillen as a Cashman type plus he doesn’t offer much more than Thames at this point. I think they’ll stick with Soria and call it a deal.

          • Thomas Cassidy

            I kind of thought he was like Thames, but the Yankees are in need of a DH bat. I can’t think of anyone out there that is affordable in terms of prospects. Dunn and Fielder, will cost the farm almost, especially if we trade for Soria. I see Jose Bautista as a potential DH bat and 3rd base and LF/RF filler if needed.

            • Rob

              They only need a DH if you think Thames and Miranda aren’t sufficient. They have been. Add Jorge to that mix and the DH slot is filled, especially as they like to move guys around. The full-time DH doesn’t really fit their roster.

              The only other guy I could see them getting from the Royals is Aviles. He’s a bit of an upgrade from Pena and can play 3B, SS, and 2B. But considering he’s cheap, I don’t know why the Royals would trade him.

  • Eric

    Honestly I would rather have Soria than Haren, one of the best relievers in the game, no one really knows about cause he plays for the Royals and he could be the closer after Mo decides to hang em up (no hurry though).

  • TheZack

    But he’s still just a reliever. I ask this time again, when was the last time a reliever, even one as great as Mo, really made the difference for a team making/winning the WS?

    • Thomas Cassidy

      Marte last season.

  • DJH

    I got a serious question even though it is a very unrealistic situation. If you could get Greinke + Soria what would you offer for them and what would the Royals might be tempted to accept?

    Obviously the offer would start with Montero but what else is to much or to little. I’m thinking to have a chance of KC accepting it would have to be.

    Montero
    Hughes
    Nova
    Joba
    ManBan

    Seriously that’s a huge offer but it’s also one of the elite starters in the game signed to a cheap deal and one of the best relievers in the game coming back.

    I think that might be to much but I also think any other offer we could make KC would hang up,so in this hypothetical Yankees and Royals discussing Greinke and Soria conversation what do you think KC would accept and what do you think NY would offer?

    • Thomas Cassidy

      Are you serious?

      • DJH

        Of course I am serious. It’s a hypothetical question and in my opinion the Royals won’t trade either player but it’s still intresting to wonder what they are worth in a trade.

    • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

      As others have said, I really don’t think Greinke would fit in here. He has a disability I have, social anxiety. I am 99% sure that he would not be comfortable pitching in a big market with so much scrutiny. Social anxiety can be really prohibitive. It’s a hard thing to deal with. Obviously it’s treatable, but some things you will never be able to completely cure.

      • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

        Also, no trading Hughes. He might be struggling right now but it would be foolish to give up on him. I’m also hesitant to give up for Montero. I would only give him up for somebody I would know would make it here.

      • Thomas Cassidy

        How does this sound:

        Joba, Nova, Warren, Adams/Nunez?

        • Rob

          As I say above, if the deal gets done this is the ballpark package I’m expecting. Two arms for their rotation next year plus a middle infielder, plus a close AA/AAA arm. I can’t see Soria bringing back more value and I can’t see the Yanks giving up more. Joba hurts, of course, but we all see the writing on the wall. Nova and Warren would never make the Yankee rotation – not in the next three years.

          Those may not be the players, but that’s the framework for the deal right there:

          1. Joba
          2. AAA arm – Nova OR Phelps OR McAllister
          3. AA arm – Warren OR Noesi
          4. Middle IF – Adams OR Joseph OR Nunez

          The Yanks do that and it’s hard to see the Royals passing that up.

          • Thomas Cassidy

            I thought it sounded good. Also, above I said maybe trade McAllister and Miranda or Melancon for Guillen. How does that sound?

            • Rob

              Don’t see Guillen as an improvement over Thames.

              If the Yanks are offering that framework for Soria, it’s hard to see how it doesn’t get done. I swallow hard – given the variability of relievers – but Soria is as close to a young stud as can be had and cheaply too.

      • Rob

        Agreed. And I don’t the Yanks would have any interest for the same reason. It’s not hard to understand Greinke’s issues and avoid them.

      • DJH

        I have been diagnosed with severe SAD also but I don’t see how it would effect Greinke’s pitching he comes on the road to big markets and does fine. Ive also read some Greinke quotes and that is one cocky dude in my opinion players that believe they are the shit fit well in NY.

        • Rob

          I don’t see the Yanks pretending it doesn’t matter. It has hurt him before. They wouldn’t take the chance for the many millions at stake.

          It’s probably besides the point. If there’s any guy for the Royals to build around it’s Greinke. To trade him would be to punt another two or three years.

      • DJH

        In NY if Greinke pitched like he has he would be viewed like a hero and people with SAD get a lot of help from constant praise. In my opinion he would flourish in NY but I don’t mind if people disagree.

        I do understand what you guys are thinking though what if he had like a Javy 04 moment and got booed and ridiculed it could be hard for someone like him to comeback from.

  • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

    No offense, but there are some comments that are seriously divorced from reality in this thread. Wow.

    • Rob

      If you’re going to chime in like that, you may as well lay out your reasonable framework for Soria – i.e. the topic of this thread.

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        My “reasonable framework” doesn’t exist and won’t until the market for Soria develops a bit. The River Ave. Blues philosophy, as we’ve written numerous times, is “your trade proposal sucks.” But a few things:

        1. Greinke isn’t coming to New York, and Yankee fans shouldn’t want him to. He’s already expressed his strong feelings that he doesn’t want to pitch for the Yanks or Boston because of the pressure. He knows he wouldn’t be able to handle it, and the Yankees know it too. No trade. It’s futile to imagine a scenario where he might get traded to the Yankees because none exists.

        2. The idea that the Yanks would have to give up a package approaching Joba and Phil and Montero and and Banuelos in a trade is simply ludicrous. It’s so far from a realistic scenario that it’s just worth my “chiming in” any more than I have.

        That’s all. When there’s actually some substance to Heyman’s rumor and names being bandied about, we’ll let you know what we think a reasonable proposal is. As a hint, it’s nothing at all mentioned in this thread, and my comment wasn’t mean to be insulting. I’m basically just shaking my head at the trade-proposals-run-wild thing going on here.

        • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

          This.

          And yes, some of the things said in this thread are a bit crazy. Not really any RAB regulars chiming in.

        • Randy A.

          Thank God one of the RABbis has shown up. Talk some sense into those living on fantasy island.

  • ConcernedFan

    Save The Farm,

    we dont need to get no big name players for crying out loud we have enough superstars

  • Risto

    As others have said, trading for Soria would entail trading a ton of prospects, since his contract is team-friendly. What annoys me about that is, for the same prospects (maybe even fewer), the Yankees probably could have gotten Dan Haren. And I’m pretty sure I’d rather have Dan Haren than Joakim Soria.

    We really couldn’t beat that Angels package? Come on, man.

  • nycsportzfan

    i wonder if something like this would work for soria

    Austin Romine
    Ivan Nova
    Hector Noesi
    Brandon Laird
    Colin Curtis

    or
    Austin Romine
    Slade Heathcott
    Ivan Nova
    Luke Murton

    Either trade still leaves us in a good positon in the minors, with Buenelos and Montero, sanchez and murphy, phelps, jimmy paredes, venditte, adam warren, chase whitley, eduardo sosa, kelvin deleon, yeicok calderon, jose ramirez, betances, kontos, brett marshall…etc
    Basically, a crap load of potential and joakim soria!

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      Why would you as the GM trade four or five of your best prospects for a reliever? This is why I said this thread was filled with lunacy.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    It would be an almost impossible task to trade for Soria. I would love to see him get him if we could get him for a Joba/Nova/Adams package. But I know they would ask for the moon and they would be completely within their right to ask for every piece they could. One of the top 5 relievers in baseball on a team friendly contract.

  • OXXBOW

    The chances of Soria coming to the Yanks are about 50 / 50, I would say. It will take Joba and, say, Nova, Adams and two other solid pitching prospects to close the deal.

  • Mister Delaware

    ‘The Yankees dangled Jesus Montero in talks for Joakim Soria, reports ESPN’s Jayson Stark, but the Royals weren’t interested.’

    I do not buy any part of this.

  • OXXBOW

    What, I ask, is a mediocre team like the Royals doing hanging on to a stud closer? A premier closer is a great asset if you are a legitimate contender. The Royals are hardly that…