Open Thread: Thanks, Swish


(AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

It’s amazing how one swing of the bat can make us all forget about that abomination of a game, and really the last four games. The Yankees played generally awful and uninspired baseball against the Orioles this series, yet Nick Swisher managed to send them into the road trip and tomorrow’s off-day on a high note. Amazingly enough, Swish’s walk-off shot today comes exactly one year after his last walk-off shot, which came against the Rays. Pretty cool.

Anyway, here’s your open thread for the evening. The Red Sox and Rays are on ESPN, and that’s pretty much it for baseball on the national channels. You guys know what to do by now, so have at it.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Carlosologist says:

    What a great way to end the afternoon. I had a good second day as a freshman and I saw Swish’s walkoff shot on my phone.

  2. vin says:

    Swish really bailed the team out today. On the bright side, Alex seems to be making good contact. We all know what he can do for this team when he’s going well.

  3. bexarama says:

    Overall, my prediction proved to be prophetic.
    plz to be making this a meme.

  4. Did you guys see this article about why Perez and Castillo didn’t join the Mets to a trip to a Veteran’s hospital?

    To save you the jump, Castillo said:

    “I didn’t go because I didn’t want to see that,” Castillo said.

    “I don’t answer,” Perez said, “anything about outside the stadium.”

    Class acts, those guys.

  5. Oh hey, look, it’s Ben!

    I was actually sitting on the other side of the Stadium, two levels down. I love my camera.

  6. Eirias says:

    Pitching Wakefield. Such drive for the playoffs.

  7. Oh wow, when did the Red Sox call up Lars Anderson? This is Theo’s can’t miss hitting prospect right?

  8. JFH says:

    per lohud….

    “This was the Yankees’ fourth walk-off win and major-league-leading 44th comeback win.”

    At what point is a comeback win considered a comeback win? If we comeback from being down in the 2nd inning, is that a comeback, for statistical purposes? (serious question).

    I ask, because it seems that wins like today are more rare than last year. Not specifically the walk-off, but at least late inning comebacks. Am I off base with that assumption?

    I sure am happy with Swish’s dinger.

    • vin says:

      I believe a comeback is recorded if you trailed at any point in the game. Pretty lame, and definitely not very telling.

    • You’re not off base, but I wouldn’t read too much into it:

      1) Last year was noted for how many there were–ie, a feat unlikely to be repeated, and

      2) a walk off or late inning come back involces a lot of luck and playing close the entire way. This year’s team has won a lot more comfortable, blow-outish games.

    • bexarama says:

      If they’re at home and they’re down 1-0 after the top of the first, and they win the game, that’s considered a “comeback win.” FWIW.

      I have no idea but all the walk-offs in 2009 gave the impression that they had a lot of late-inning comebacks. It’s probably at least partially a confirmation bias thing. People don’t seem to realize that a year like last one with the walk-offs just isn’t all that likely to happen on any sort of regular basis.

    • I assume it just means that they won a game in which they were trailing at some point. In other words, a pointless stat.

      And hey, just off the top of my head we had the dramatic Thames walkoff off Papelbon, and that epic comeback off Broxton in LA as examples of late-inning comebacks.

  9. Slappy White says:

    Any news on the Jesus situation ?

  10. mike c says:

    john buck might be seeing yankee bucks after this season with the posada scare and a potential premature jesus for next year

    • mike c says:

      he’s 2.8 WAR and holding a .306 OBP, is he that good defensively?

    • Magnus Stultus says:

      I would have taken Rod Barajas over Cerv which I am pretty sure they gave him away to the Dodgers.
      I also like Josh Thole on the Mets. He seems to be a high contact hitter in the John Jaso mode.

  11. vin says:

    I saw in the fangraphs chat today that Dave Cameron thinks Roy Halladay is a HOFer if he never pitches another game.

    Definitely caught me by surprise. His HOF statistics per B-R are pretty much there (or close enough).

    Considered one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the game for the past 9 years. Doesn’t walk anyone, which helps him throw tons of innings. Pitched in the toughest division in baseball all these years.

    He’s only had 7 seasons in which started more than 21 games. Never really a big strikeout pitcher (his sinker is too good of a weapon). Never pitched in the postseason (obviously not his fault).

    To me, there are three types of HOF pitchers…
    1) guys who had really good long careers (Spahn)
    2) guys who had incredible peaks (Koufax)
    3) guys with a combination of the first two (Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, and other slam-dunks)

    Doc doesn’t really fit into any of those categories. His peak has been really good, but not Pedro or Koufax good. Only starting more than 21 games 7 times definitely hurts him.

    He wouldn’t be in my HOF. He almost certainly wouldn’t be in the old-guard’s HOF. Perhaps the SABR’s HOF would accept him.

    • He’s won 20 games twice, that might help the old guard. They’ll also cite his dominance pitching on a bad team in the toughest division in baseball, during and after the steroid era.

      His 2008 season might fulfill that “peak” too.

      From the statistical approach, tough to make the argument. His ERA+ doesn’t wow you and he doesn’t have the longevity yet so you can’t make the case for “if he never throws another pitch” like you said.

      • whozat says:

        Yeh. I expect he’ll put up several more very-good-at-least years in Phillie, which will make him a slam-dunk. But, I don’t know that I could put him in right now.

        Is the argument that he’s an on-the-bubble-but-could-make-it kind of guy right now? Or a Jeter/ARod/Mo kind of “if he was done yesterday, he’s in in the first year or two” kind of guy?

        • vin says:

          Cameron didn’t seem to have much hesitation in today’s chat. I was just caught off guard, and there were no follow up questions on the issue.

          He’d probably be a Blyleven type guy. Not get much support initially, but will gain momentum as time goes by (and during those years where there’s no certain candidates).

          I always find HOF discussions fascinating.

  12. bexarama says:

    Boston Red Sox. WHAT ARE YOU DOING???

  13. Cecala says:

    Anyone else excited to see the double rainbow guy on Tosh.0 tonight?

    Just in case anyone here has not seen the double rainbow

  14. I’m awfully tired of ESPN and people in particular saying the Rays have a much better rotation than the Yankees. Especially now that we can reasonably assume Pettitte will be back in a week or two.

    The Yankees have:

    CC Sabathia – shutdown lefty ace. No concerns.
    Andy – solid #2
    AJ – wildly inconsistent, but capable of spinning a gem
    Hughes – young pitcher who’s been up and down

    The Rays have:

    Price – shutdown lefty ace. No concerns!
    Garza – solid #2
    Shields – ERA over 5 in the last couple months, capable of spinning a gem
    Davis – young pitcher who’s coming off injury

    I mean… they’re awfully close. I’d take Shields over AJ but other than that? I don’t see this “huge” difference that people keep referencing.

    • Cecala says:

      Boston still has 5 aces no matter how much you compare the AL East pitching

    • Kit says:

      Listening to ESPN is like losing brain cells, for me, so I typically ignore their bullshit. I can see why they give Tampa’s rotation a lot of compliments, because it’s pretty good, but they have the same issues that we have, their pitchers are just younger. I just think that since they’ve been able to have more series wins against the Yankees and Boston, it qualifies them as the better rotation.

    • vin says:

      And I’d take a healthy Pettitte over Garza – given how well he had been pitching this year, plus he’ll have a fresh arm, and ample postseason experience (fwiw).

    • mike c says:

      i’m still pushing for javy to be AJ’s life preserver for october. his endurance is questionable with the dead arm stuff, but he has shown as of late that he has the stuff to shut down potential meltdowns coming out of the pen early

    • Jake says:

      I think part of the difference is that Pettitte has been out for a while. It’s no guarantee that, at his age, he will step right back in and pitch as effectively as he was. The Rays also have Hellickson. I agree that the gap between the two rotations is not as drastic as the MSM makes it out to be, but I would still give the Rays the edge.

    • seimiya says:

      I don’t know if you left out the total lacking of #5 starters here, but Jeff Neimann has been a mess since coming off the DL, and the Yankees have some combination of Nova/Vazquez/Moseley. Nova, the 23-year-old rookie, has been the most impressive.

  15. forensic says:

    MLB Network:

    “Playoff preview on Saturday with Derek Jeter and the Yankees vs. Vladimir Guerrero and the Rangers.”

    Really guys??? I know it’s all about name recognition, but with all the really good players on both teams couldn’t you have picked two guys who haven’t been completely terrible for at least the entire second half of the season?

  16. Kit says:

    So can anyone clear up my confusion over the Yankees rotation. I know Moseley is going in for Phil, but who goes when? If I’m not mistaken it should be Javy, Moseley, and AJ against Texas (and now that it’s written out, it worries me). Is that right?

    • vin says:

      Here’s my post from earlier today:

      So it looks like the rotation for next week will be:

      mon – CC (5 days rest) @ tampa
      tues – Andy (4 days rest – if he only needs the 1 rehab start) @ tampa
      wed – Hughes (a bunch of rest as mentioned) @ tampa
      thurs – OFF DAY
      fri – Javy? (6 days) @ bal
      sat – AJ? (6 days) @ bal

      The playoff rotation will probably look like that, except with AJ getting the start over Javy. I bet they use that Thursday off day to give everyone an extra day of rest.

      • Kit says:

        So is the Javy, Moseley, AJ combo versus Texas still a go?
        And thanks. I’m hoping Andy only needs one rehab start, but I feel that it’s unlikely.

    • forensic says:

      Javy Friday, AJ Saturday, Moseley Sunday, CC Monday. Then it depends on Pettitte or Nova on Tuesday, then Hughes Wednesday.

  17. vin says:

    Beltre with the contract push.

  18. Jose the Satirist says:

    I loved every minute of this afternoon’s game. You can’t give up on games and even when down you still gotta have faith. Maybe I’m just a zen master. I liked reading through the thread afterwards.

    “THe Yankees Took the Orioles lightly and they are about to be swept by them.”

    “Jorge better fucking be hurt.”

    “maybe we need to lose 8 in a row to change this line up”

    • Kit says:

      I’m kind of glad I wasn’t around to read the thread.

    • Slappy White says:

      You left out the gem that if we lost it was like 4 un-wins from the 8 game win streak

    • whozat says:

      The “took them lightly” argument is hilarious to me.

      Do people think that these incredibly driven professionals, who are managed and coached by incredibly driven professionals, were like “nah, all that prep work I usually do? Screw it. I don’t need to watch video for these pitchers.”

      Really? Did CC walk in yesterday with his shot for 20 wins and say “Shut up, Dave, I don’t need a scouting report”?

      • Tom Zig says:

        Did CC walk in yesterday with his shot for 20 wins and say “Shut up, Dave, I don’t need a scouting report”?

        For some reason I found this really funny. I’m playing it out in my head and it’s even funnier.

      • Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Blog says:

        It’s funny, I’m totally with you on this. However, I thought it was odd the other night when Garza gave his “hair on fire” speech and basically said he was gonna bring it to the Orioles.

        Does that mean the time they beat him up he wasn’t trying as hard as he could?

    • bexarama says:

      Reading through the thread after we won was the most amazing/horrifying thing. Just… the stupidity and the hostility. Wow.

  19. Eirias says:

    Holy shit has Broxton imploded this year. Why?

    • Kit says:

      Joe Torre. That is all.

      (No, I’m kidding, but Torre’s bullpen management probably has something to do with it.)

      • Don’t you dare question the manager!

        But yeah, Torre using him each and every day probably didn’t help.

      • Magnus Stultus says:

        Scott Proctor , Vizcaino, and Gordon are just few of the names I can think of.

        • Kit says:

          I always think of Scott Proctor at any mention of Torre’s bullpen management and I feel fucking terrible for him.

          • vin says:

            Paul Quantrill says “hi.”

            95 innings in 2004. For a team that went on to win 101 games, and clinched a playoff spot by 10 games.

            • Kit says:

              I laughed a little. And felt bad. Sorry Paul.

              • vin says:

                Everyone always points to the handling of bullpens as a key difference between Girardi and Torre. But to me it’s much more than that.

                Torre operated his pen like a puppet master. He must’ve felt like he was bigger than the relief pitchers, and therefore he could over/under work them as he desired.

                He probably figured that he’s the one who gets the blame if the team blows a lead, so why should he risk losing the media and fans’ and ownership’s faith by letting Gordon or Proctor sit on the bench. It’s his neck on the line (or so he thought).

                On the other hand, Girardi has gone out of his way, numerous times, to say that he’s not just concerned about winning games, but also not jeopardizing players’ careers. Perhaps the ownership change has had something to do with that (ie giving more power to the sane Brian Cashman).

                They really are different managers.

                • bexarama says:

                  I wouldn’t go that far with Torre. I don’t think he was evil or whatever. But whenever Girardi gets snippy with the media about how he really cares about protecting his pitchers, I get very tingly.

                  • vin says:

                    No, I don’t think he was being evil about it. I think Torre was just taking the “them or me” approach to managing. He probably didn’t want to lose his high-paying managing job so Luis Vizcaino could play another 5 years.

                    In the past I would’ve given him the benefit of the doubt, but his book really hurt his credibility in my eyes. He’s not interested in protecting players, or keeping certain things private. He’s only interested in covering his own behind.

                • Kit says:

                  I don’t think Torre was intentionally sadistic or anything. I just think he had a lot of faith in certain players and tended to abuse them.

      • Tom Zig says:

        On June 27, 2010. Joe Torre fell asleep in the dug out with Broxton on the mound. 48 pitches later, he woke up and took him out.

        Before June 27:

        ERA: 0.83
        BA: .217
        OBP: .254
        SLG: .258
        OPS: .512

        June 27 to present day:

        ERA: 7.77
        BA: .309
        OBP: .398
        SLG: .464
        OPS: .862

        • Kit says:

          That is still one of my favorite games of the season, but that was the starting point of his implosion. Sorry, Broxton, but plenty of Yankee relievers have felt your pain.

        • vin says:

          I was thinking about that game after I saw Papelbon threw nearly 50 pitches in his blown save to the Chi Sox.

          Torre really painted himself into a corner when he had Broxton start that inning, despite having a 4 run lead, and working the night before (if memory serves).

    • bexarama says:

      He honestly hasn’t been the same since the Yankee series. I think he’s been overworked the past few years and it all came to a head there.

  20. Magnus Stultus says:

    Is anyone rooting (against) for Pods to collapse utterly? My proxy team du jour is the Giants , go Buster!

    • Dirty Pena says:

      I don’t have anything against Scott Podsednik.

    • vin says:

      When it comes to rooting for or against NL teams, I always think about what would happen if the Yanks faced the team in the WS. Needless to say, I’m rooting for the Padres.

    • seimiya says:

      Because my team will never be the “feel-good team” of the playoffs, I always like other feel-good teams getting in so I can root for them up until the World Series (or whenever they face my Yankees).

      So, I’m for the pods. I’m in the Bay Area, but the A’s are my team du jour, because they’re so cute and scrappy.

  21. bexarama says:

    I’m going to Trenton tomorrow. Oh boy.

  22. bonestock94 says:

    I bet the people calling for Girardi’s head feel dumb now.

    In other news I just grabbed a pair of box seats for Yanks at O’s in a couple of weeks. Very excited, heard Camden Yards is beautiful. I hope I draw a CC or Pettitte start.

  23. Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Blog says:

    Hey, I just wanted to apologize to Ross for jumping into the game thread late and starting with a personal attack.

    I don’t get into game threads very often, but I did it poorly today.

    I hope to come in another time and talk about the game threads and how people react to things, but I won’t do it now for fear that I would be implicating Ross for stuff that he hasn’t done.

    Go Yankees.

    • I guess I’m stupid because I can’t tell if this is a true apology or a backhanded insult.

      Either way, sorry for overreacting to your comments. I was frustrated at the time (like we all were) and was astonished that you skipped over all the retarded comments (including the guy wishing for Jeter to get beaned in the head) to get on me for saying “I could manage better than this”.

      I don’t mean to make a newcomer feel unwelcome here.

      • bexarama says:

        The guy who wanted Jeter to get beaned in the head came really late. And was obviously completely unacceptable and I’m glad Mike told him to die. /honesty’d

      • Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Blog says:

        No, was sincere. I also wanted to talk about the people like beanball Jeter guy, but since I had mentioned you in the comment I didn’t want to associate you with people like that.

        Although I change handles and I’m not around much, I’m not a newbie.

  24. Magnus Stultus says:

    I think it should be mandatory for Yankee Players to wear Cervelli size helmet. Just in case , it would also be a funny sight to observe.

  25. Kit says:

    All I heard just now was Mike Scioscia three times in one sentence. Shut up, ESPN.

  26. bonestock94 says:

    I am moderately pleased at this development

  27. Dammit, whyyyyy did I start Garza tonight in my fantasy playoffs :(

    Oh well, 3rd place game here I come

  28. bexarama says:

    Hey Boston! Thanks for stopping the herpderping. Of course, this comes down to your bullpen vs. Tampa’s bullpen so that won’t be pretty so uh.

  29. forensic says:

    With the three ugly pitching matchups clearly in Texas’ favor this weekend, how awesome would it be to somehow go in there and still take 2 of 3. Not expecting it, but it sure would be a nice surprise.

    • Texas hasn’t exactly been lighting it up recently. Chances are Hamilton won’t be in the lineup and I doubt we’ll see Lee on Sunday with his back issues.

      The Rangers should actually be thanking the Yankees, sweeping Oakland did them a pretty big favor. If that series went differently the As could theoretically only be a few games back of them right now.

      • Kit says:

        I’m not sure about Cliff, but seeing as how Hamilton needed two weeks last year to recover from the same injury, he probably won’t be in there. They’ve been scuffling of late. It would be nice to see Javy and AJ get it together against a solid, competitive team.

        • Kit says:

          I just read that Cliff will be making his start against us on Sunday.

          BOO, CLIFF! BOO!

          • Man, I wouldn’t mess around with a bad back. They better not be damaging our future goods!

            *shakes fist*

            • forensic says:

              I’ve never fully been in the camp of wanting Lee for some reason. And this really pushes me even further away from it. He would really worry me now for a long term investment.

              • Kit says:

                You’re probably worrying for nothing. Lee is an awesome pitcher and I’d rather see him on our team than on any other where he could be a threat. The random injuries that don’t land him on the DL are no worse than the starting rotation shuffling that has gone on with Javy. You’re also forgetting that other teams aren’t as careful with their players as the Yankees are.

            • Kit says:

              I hated it when he was pitching CG’s for the Mariners, so I’m definitely worried about this (though it’s mostly because I want him to sit out and give us a chance to win). Though if he gets hit around I wouldn’t be mad at that either.

      • forensic says:

        Yeah, they’ve been playing even worse than the Yanks, but they still have a pretty significant starter’s advantage in the game. I do expect Lee to play (I like to plan for the worst), but hopefully the Yanks treat him like everyone else treated him for about a month. It would be really nice if Hamilton wasn’t playing though.

        • “Even worse” than the Yanks? They’re 9-3 in their last 12!

          Anyway, sure, they have the advantage, plus Kinsler is back and hitting well. Still, games with Texas seem to turn into a battle of the bullpens, and I’ll take the Yankees pen any day.

          • forensic says:

            Yeah, 9-3, but 4 of those were against Oakland and then the 3 game losing streak of pretty ugly baseball makes it not quite as nice as it could be.

            The bullpens probably lean toward the Yanks a bit, but the season numbers are actually pretty damn close (though the Yanks blow them away recently).

            • bexarama says:

              4 of those were against Oakland

              So? They might not be a contender but it’s not like they’re awful. We beat up Anderson, Cahill, and Braden, too – three pretty darn good pitchers.

              • Carcillo says:

                Hell, the entire Oakland rotation is pretty legit. It’s their offense that sucks.

                That, and it’s never easy to sweep a team, let alone in four games. The last three days should’ve proved that.

  30. Tom Zig says:

    Boston, I know you guys suck and all. But can you not be completely useless, and maybe win the game?

  31. By the way, as old friend Pete Abe points out, Wakefield’s performance bonuses kick in with this game. His salary just went up $500,000 for breaking 130 IP.

    Woulda been smarter to release him and just start someone from AAA, no?

  32. Goosemania says:

    Dont know if anyone else checked it out but Montero isnt playing tonight in the first playoff game for Scranton… could this be a call up?

  33. Accent Shallow says:

    See, that’s the thing about the Orioles — you can’t fall behind early, because their bullpen will lock you down. Wait, what?

    I don’t think I could have taken three games in a row where the Yankees fail to capitalize against those guys.

    • CBean says:

      I had gotten very attached to us not having a losing streak longer than 3 games this season so I was very nervous about a 4th loss. I love you Nick Swisher!

  34. Accent Shallow says:

    Who’s seeing Best Frenemies Forever solely because of Betty White?

    No? Nobody?

    Not even after “the Twitter”?

  35. Goosemania says:

    Oh ok thanks… guess I got too excited haha

  36. ShuutoHeat (Passion>all) says:

    Wow, Garza has given up 4 HRs so far.

  37. Carcillo says:

    How do we analyze the Rays rotation? Obviously, Price is a sure thing, but Shields has been wildly inconsistent all year, Niemann has been awful of late, and nights like tonight remind us of Garza’s combustibility.

    Compared to the Yankees who only have C.C. as a sure thing right now, I’ll concede the Rays at least have two sure things, in all likelihood, with Price and Garza. If nothing else, Garza has shown that he can dominate playoff games (see: 2008 ALCS). However, if Pettitte comes back and pitches well, I’d say the Yankees have their two reliables as well. Minnesota really only has two sure things with Liriano and (gulp) Pavano, and I don’t really know what is a definite sure thing for Texas right now. Obviously, a healthy Cliff Lee is, but his back is a bit of an issue right now, Wilson’s got innings problems, Lewis has struggled recently, and Hunter has been terrible.

    Honestly, Chicago might have the most “well-rounded” team in the league, but they’re on the outside looking in, and since Minnesota doesn’t lose games anymore, it’ll be tough for them to get in.

  38. Chris says:

    Betances: 5.1 IP, 2H, 0R, 1BB, 8K

    Total domination, and only his 4th game at AA.

  39. Little Bill says:

    Rays falling apart here. We may pick up a game!

  40. Carcillo says:

    Rays home games, with Kevin Kennedy and his incessant whining, can be borderline unwatchable if you ever pay attention to the commentary.

    Rays road games, with Brian Anderson, are infinitely better. B.A. and Dewayne Staats work very well off each other.

  41. Raise your hand if you thought Scott Atchison would still be on the Red Sox in August? Wow.

  42. Kit says:

    Eww, ESPN announcer. I am not rooting for the Red Sox. I’m rooting for a bench clearing brawl that results in injuries to mostly Tampa.

    /more internal conflict

  43. About whom was Sutt just talking when saying he had tears in his rotator cuff but was gutting it out and that was a good thing?

  44. Kit says:

    The defense in this game is laughable. I am not complaining.

  45. Zanath says:

    It literally makes me sick to even want Boston to win a game. But I have to make myself.

  46. Carcillo says:


    That was tremendous!

  47. Slappy White says:

    Boston not playing fundamental baseball…gritty,yes (ofcourse), fundamental no. But in fairness theyve had injuries

  48. Chris says:

    The analysis of that cluster-fuck at third base in the Red Sox-Rays game seems to be missing one key point: Patterson never touched third when he went back.

  49. Tom Zig says:

    I pumped my fist when I saw the Boston/TB score. I feel so dirty.

  50. Kevin in Delectable Princeton says:

    ESPN just showed a graphic of MVP candidates and Cano isn’t on it.

  51. Carcillo says:

    I love the sequence I saw in the Rockies game.

    1 on, none out, and CarGo steps up. He walks on 4 pitches, and it looked to me like Arroyo was pitching around him. Why you would pitch around Carlos when the on-deck guy is Tulo is beyond me.

    Sure enough, Tulo hits a three run shot after that.

    Well played, Troy.

  52. pat says:

    Damn, Tony Franklin is channeling his inner Joe Girardi tonight.

  53. China Joe says:

    Scranton loses to Columbus via the walkoff home run. It should only count as half a win, beating the Jesus-less Scranton Yankees.

  54. Pasqua says:

    Dave Winfield was on Kay’s radio show this afternoon and they were talking about “The Showalter Effect” re: the O’s. Winfield actually said, when asked, that managers are responsible for 5% of a team’s wins over the course of a season.

    Such a comment only adds to the notion that MLB analyst = saying whatever shit comes to your head at any given second.

    • Kit says:

      With the way people describe Buck it makes it seem like he’s kidnapped all of the Orioles players’ pets and is holding them hostage, giving them visitation rights when they win.

    • But he’s an ex-player! And a Hall of Famer at that! He must be right.

    • Poopy Pants says:

      Michael Showalter?

    • Pat D says:

      I challenge you on this.

    • ZZ says:

      What would you personally put the % at?

      • Pat D says:

        I don’t think it’s a flat percent necessarily. Though maybe it is. 5% would be only between 3-5 wins for every team. I think that really sounds about right. Because this would mean that managers have very little factor on the outcome of the game.

        I think Davey Johnson once said that managers don’t win games, but that they can lose games. I agree with that.

      • Pasqua says:

        My point being: It’s a completely subjective and unprovable concept to begin with so why would someone even think they can put a percentage on it? Gutteral reaction is confused for “analysis” in sports (and politics) and this, to me, is just another example of someone who is presumed to be knowledgable because he “played the game.”

        Here’s another: In the MLB Network commercial that is designed to highlight and celebrate the “insights” of their analysts, they actually show a clip of Billy Ripken saying, “It’s not where you start, it’s where you finish.” What the fuck is that?!

        • ZZ says:

          Oh. I did not realize you were trying to make a larger point. I thought you were just challenging the percentage Winfield presented so I was curious as to what you thought it was.

        • Pat D says:

          I agree with this point, particularly when referring to both sports and politics. It’s better to just speak from the heart or gut and sound decisive than to allow for the possibility that you’re wrong or that you have the right to change your opinion. That’s when you get called a “flip-flopper.”

  55. bexarama says:

    If the Yankees had this kind of game, there would be all kinds of articles about how the team’s starting rotation and bullpen is in deep shit. But no, it’s Tampa Bay.

  56. The Rays are looking like dog doo tonight.

  57. You know what the worst part of the Red Sox winning is, though? Yeah it helps the Yankees if they beat Tampa, especially tonight, but if they win, everyone will pronounce them “not dead yet” and it will just give Mitch Williams another chance to say something dumb.

  58. PaulF says:

    What is the magic number right now? Shouldn’t it be 14 with the White Sox loss?

  59. Magnus Stultus says:

    A simply beautiful piece of music. An Adagio in D minor, I wish they could have played this in memory GMS.

  60. bexarama says:

    I’m stealing this from someone on Twitter but why is Joe Maddon managing this game like it’s Game 7 of the World Series and he has a one-run lead?

  61. Not Tank The Frank: you around? If so, what elementary/middle schools did you go to? Your comment in re: the Minaus River (yes, people, laugh about its spelling) makes me think we could be “neighbors.”

  62. Tom Zig says:

    Why is A-rod always on the outside of the celebration at homeplate after a walkoff?

  63. Kit says:

    I like Bobby Cox, but I feel like the Phillies are going to torment the shit out of the Braves.

    • bexarama says:

      The Phillies announcers yesterday were going frigging bananas when they won (and the Braves lost, putting them in first in the division for the first time in a while). Wow. It’s not 2007 any more, guys. Act like you’ve been there before.

      And I say this as someone with a sort of soft spot for the Phillies (…yeah.).

      • Kit says:

        I dislike the Phillies, but only because one of my Biochemistry professors was a Phillies fan and during the WS last year, he gave the Yankee fans so much crap over Game 1. He also said that Jorge Posada is a douche and even my Angels fan lab partner was all “You need to stop tripping balls. Jorge is the man.” (I gained some respect for an Angels fan that day…and then promptly lost it the next).

      • Carcillo says:

        Eff the Phillies, eff Philadelphia. The only times in recent memory I can EVER remember supporting a Philly team was in the NHL postseason last year when the Bruins were on the verge of a 3-0 collapse (I have far more distaste for the Flyers than the B’s, but Boston getting the other end of a 3-0 choke needed to happen) and Week 17 in 2008 when the Eagles and Cowboys played for the right to go to the playoffs.

        The only team I don’t strongly dislike are the 76ers. And that’s ’cause they suck, and I don’t have any fan affiliation to an NBA team.

        • Magnus Stultus says:

          For the last four years (sans 2008) , I have watched Yankees playoff games in AC. I am surrounded by Phillies douchebags.
          They are ,mostly, not knowledgeable and rude. Although, most of them lost side bets to me on the WS last year, for that I am grateful.

          • bexarama says:

            Phillies fans are mostly awful (though I have a pretty dear friend who’s a Philly fan), but I have nothing against the team. I like them. :/

            • bexarama says:

              Well. Not really Jimmy Rollins.

            • Magnus Stultus says:

              I am always surprised by how many Phillies fans are in south Jersey (logically make sense I suppose). I can’t get Yankees game in the Casino hotel rooms. As a result, I am force to hang out with Phillies peeps there. It’s fucking annoying to hear some their comments. I guess it’s a perspective from a different fan, but most of them are just rude.

  64. Kit says:

    The Rays are effin’ ridiculous. I want to punch you all in the face now.

  65. bexarama says:

    Heh, using Bard in an 11-5 game. #lolpen

    • Tom Zig says:

      Must win for the Sox. and this time it REALLLY is a must win. Every game for the Sox here on out should be declared must wins. I don’t know why they are still trying. But hey stick it to Raysbeisbol

  66. Carcillo says:

    Tulo with another home run.

  67. bexarama says:

    Fun fact, I’ve been to one game at Fenway in my life. It was this one.

    Also why is this guy creepily going “that’s nice. That’s nice.” in response to some Boston hitter.

  68. Kit says:

    How about we not talk about the Yankees and you STFU, ESPN dude.

  69. If there’s anyone with rotation problems in the AL East, it’s Joe Girardi’s club.



  70. bexarama says:

    I just put on ESPN and heard about how the Yankees have omgsomanyissuez

    … but then did they just say Boston is basically out of it? Whoah. WHOAHHHHHH.

  71. Pat D says:

    Wait, did the magic number realy go down to 14? I thought Boston passed Chicago in the standings again with Boston’s pending win and Chicago’s loss?

  72. MattG says:

    I am just back from Mercer County Riverfront Stadium, and I can say I was blown away by Betances (and Drabek was no slouch, either). Outstanding life on the fastball, and a very deceptive change. With my eye, I only noticed his arm speed differ on one change.

    The curve seemed okay. He really did it with the fastball and change tonight.

    His defense seemed hell bent on giving up runs–3 errors in his 5.1 innings (that’s probably why he couldn’t go longer), but with people on base he became untouchable.

    I also got to see Venditte. It was a very funny pitching change. First, all the infielders were gathered on the back of the mound while Venditte was taking his warm-up tosses, which was weird. He threw 4 right-handed, over the top, then he walked towards the back of the mound, fidgeting with the glove, his back to our section. He took the rubber left-handed, and my section let out an “Ooooo.” Then he threw, with a sweeping sidearm delivery, and the section said “Aaaahhh!” Most exciting warm-up tosses ever!

  73. Tom Zig says:

    Is the lead papelbon proof?

  74. bexarama says:

    Wow, did ESPN just acknowledge a flaw of Boston?!


  75. Kit says:

    Haha…there goes the ACES talk again.

  76. Scooter says:

    Great shot of Sweet Lou from that fight in 1976 – I found an earlier shot, but yours is better:

  77. No Betemit picture? I object!

  78. bonestock94 says:

    How can a reasonable person justify anyone other than Lester being an Ace? Even if Bucholz’s BABIP was reasonable I don’t think he could be called an Ace, since he strikes out less than average. Not to mention it would be a bit premature.

  79. Carcillo says:

    Nights like tonight are why I’m glad I watched the Rays game on their network. No ESPN, no Kevin Kennedy. Excellent.

    For those dumb enough to watch tonight’s LA/San Diego game, please report any idiotic Yankee comments the crew somehow finagles into this game. I’ll want to hear those.

  80. Jerome S says:

    Remember in the Dark Knight when they talked about there being a hero that the people needed, and the hero that they one that they deserved?

    When it became apparent sometime in 2003 or 2005 that A-Rod truly was one of the all-time greats, he was the hero that we needed. We needed a baseball player that could perform without PED’s. We needed an anti-Bonds, an Anti-Sosa, a reincarnation of Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron or anybody to distract us from the cancer in the sport.

    Was he arrogant? Yes. Was he awkward in front of the press? Yes. Some people may have hated him, but no matter what, statistically, he was the best. And Alex knew it. He had known it since the early 90′s. All through high school, the scouts saw him and saw something special. In the minors, a developing A-Rod was seen by many as the next Ken Griffey. After 1996, he was a legend, and was just months removed from being able to legally drink.
    So there he was. A-Rod the legend. The hero that we needed. The savior of baseball.

    But then there was the hero that we deserved. Alex Rodriguez on steroids, Alex Rodriguez the lie. As fans of a juiced up game where men with no necks swing bats the size of their index fingers, a moribund game at the time, and more importantly, as fans willing to accept such lies, we got who we deserved. Alex was a product of an ugly system that we created, not the other way around.

    Manny being Manny, they say. Others ask, why is Alex Rodriguez standing on the outside of a walk-off celebration? Why is it that Roger Clemens is such an asshole? Well, look at what we demand of them. When we’re behind in a game, we want Alex to hit a homer right now. Clemens was hardly allowed a single bad outing per year from the press. Some blamed the Dodgers struggles, incorrectly, on Manny Ramirez.

    The athlete-fan relationship is a two-way relationship. They respond in ways that we fail to comprehend. But these supermen of the game are humans.

    Alex Rodriguez was the hero we deserved. Only we, as a society, and not the MLB Players association or the Commissioner can do what is right to get the hero that we need.

    • Magnus Stultus says:


    • Unfortunately this kind of narrative is far too common these days. It seems to be the mentality of every casual baseball fan. And hey, who can argue against it?

      To me though, A-rod isn’t as bad as people make him out to be. He’s hated by a lot of people, and he’s brought a lot of it on himself. But I always liked him because I feel like he’s a good guy at heart. How many superstars of his status would have moved from shortstop to third to accommodate a guy like Jeter, without saying a word?

      In the end, fans just want to be a part of something special. It’s why we don’t care about how much the Yankees spend, or who they bring in. We just want to win, to feel the elation when after watching 170+ games we finally reach the top. We got to the ballpark with the idea in the back of our heads that maybe something special will happen today.

      Steroids will always cloud the game. But I think a lot of fans just don’t care about them anymore.

    • MattG says:

      I think your premise is false. I don’t think there was much wrong with heroes like Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio and Jackie Robinson, to name a few. Want more recent, steroid era guys? Ken Griffey and Greg Maddux stand at the top, but guys like Craig Biggio and Tony Gwynn have claims to hero status as well.

      People demand of their heroes, and those heroes, being human, can fail. The questions are were they worthy of the praise, and are they still heroic in failure? Many undeniably are. Clemens and Rodriguez will need to be debated.

      • Jerome S says:


        I see your point.

        BUT what I failed to fully state was that my premise relates solely to the players that used PEDs, because they felt inadequate to begin with. My apologies.

      • Pat D says:

        Joe DiMaggio wasn’t really a saint. I’d say Lou Gehrig deserves to be mentioned in that group rather than DiMaggio.

  81. bexarama says:

    Joe Torre rockin’ the glasses tonight. He kind of looks like a cuddly grandpa (who would tell mean stories about you to the other people at the old folks’ home.).

  82. Magnus Stultus says:

    Can anyone offer up an opinion of Rene Rivera as a player? My real question is whether or not he can be a better player than Moeller or Cervelli.

  83. bexarama says:

    ESPN: David Eckstein rulz, Matt Kemp droolz.

  84. Rockdog says:

    Don’t know if folks saw the article on on Brackman, but it did have one interesting point. Brackman goes out of his way to praise Romine. Was good to see. Just loving the system, especially the catching depth. Will be interesting to see what Cashman does with it — i.e., who do you trade and when. Here’s the link to the article:;c_id=nyy

  85. bob says:

    9and 0 road trip coming up

  86. Angry birds: greatest iPhones/Android app ever? I think so.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      It’s a blast. I just beat the entire game, all the different chapters and what not, maybe three weeks ago. Now I’m trying to get three stars on all the different levels, which is basically impossible.

  87. bexarama says:

    this Padres/Giants series is gonna rule

    … or probably be all boring blowouts. One or the other.

  88. bexarama says:

    One thing about ESPN and the Yankees: they will always say nice – heck, downright worshipful – things about Mariano. And Jeter.

    • Trying to find fault with the greatest closer to walk the Earth or a great offensive shortstop who’s been the face of the team who’s won 5 championships…. that would pretty much eliminate any doubt that they straight up hate the Yankees.

  89. yankees1717 says:

    i wish they would just call up montero for the one game when they face lee just to see that battle. i bet jesus would take out his wrath on lee and just hit a moonshot off him.

    • Magnus Stultus says:

      I said it earlier in the game thread. Frankly, I am little concern about Cliff Lee’s back. I am hoping the Yankees will do their due diligence when he becomes a free agent.

      • yankees1717 says:

        oh, i’m sure they will. and i am of the opinion that the yankees don’t really need lee. of course i’d love to have him, but they could put together a real solid rotation with CC/AJ/Phil/Andy/

        • yankees1717 says:

          and someone like kuroda or lilly, or a low risk high reward guy like webb

          • bexarama says:

            I would not want to depend on Webb for a rotation spot next year. IMO, that’d be like depending on CMW for a spot in 2010. Plus, Webb’s supposedly looking for a lot of money.

            • Magnus Stultus says:

              I do like Kuroda. I think he is durable and his stuff will translate in the AL EAST. Of course, I want Lee. But couple caution signs went up with his back problem.

              • bexarama says:

                I like Kuroda too, but he’s not young. A one-year deal wouldn’t be the worst thing though. I want Lee badly, but as others have said, some caution signs went off with his back issues. I trust the Yankees’ll be smart with his physical and what have you.

            • yankees1717 says:

              true, i agree with you especially on the $$$ part, but if he’s willing to come on an incentive-laden deal, i wouldn’t be against going for him as a fifth starter, with joba and nova as backup plans.

              • ZZ says:

                The major problem is that AJ is pitching like a 5th starter this season, so that is far too much risk at the back end of the rotation.

  90. In talking about who might be next year’s Padres, came this expert analysis:

    “I think it might be the Orioles. Buck has them playing well. The only problem is they’d have to beat the Yankees and Red Sox. (pause) And the Rays. (longer pause) and don’t forget the Blue Jays!”

    To sum it up, to contend in 2011 the Orioles will have to beat every team in their division. Stellar!

    • Magnus Stultus says:

      I think the Mets has a better chance of becoming next year’s Padres than the Os. I mean it.

      • bexarama says:

        I know people have been saying this for at least a couple of years but the Orioles really do have a lot of talent. If they ever put it all together, they’d be scary. Thing is, so much of that very hyped young talent really underachieves. If it’s just one player, you can probably blame the player. If it’s everyone, it’s gotta be something in the organization.

        Though things have been turning around with Buck Showalter a bit, Guthrie and Matusz have gotten quite good, Wieters has gotten a lot better, etc. But who knows if correlation = causation there.

        • I think Wieters in general hasn’t been what they’ve expected. Maybe expectations were too lofty, but I think Baltimore would have liked to see more offense from him by now. The kid certainly has a lot of talent, it’ll be interesting to see if they realize it.

          They have a lot of lineup questions too. Markakis and Roberts aren’t getting any younger.

        • Pat D says:

          In order for the Orioles to really rise, one of the top 3 teams would need to suffer a pretty bad fall.

          I could see cases being made for that to happen to each of the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays.

  91. bexarama says:

    Indians/Angels is in the effin’ 15th inning

  92. Magnus Stultus says:

    I just looked up Godzilla’s number. He has a 794 OPS and 266 average. Those numbers prolly would have been better in YS. He is having a decent year in my opinion.

    • How do you know that? Anaheim isn’t exactly a terrible place to hit.

      Also remember how he killed lefties last year? Against lefties this year he’s only hitting .218/.258/.427. Almost a 300 point drop in OPS from last year. His bat just isn’t as good as it was.

      • Magnus Stultus says:

        Relax Ross, I don’t know that , hence the word ‘prolly’. Personally, I think his pull power was taylor made for YS.
        He was also my favorite player on the Yankees. Sure, he is number is down against lefties. He is having a DECENT year.

        • I’m just saying, I’ve heard that argument a lot but I’m not sure if it carries any weight. Right field in Anaheim isn’t bad, and Matsui usually doesn’t hit cheapies.

          Decent year? Sure. Worth paying him what he would have wanted? Nah.

          • Magnus Stultus says:

            I think he would have hit a few more hrs here in the stadium.
            Not a great example, but when the Angels were last here. He hit couple shots in right field porch that could only have gone out of YS and nowhere else.

            AS far as free agent goes, that’s water under the bridge.

            Matsui was a gentleman. He was cool under pressure, I like his style. Sometimes , that kinda stuff goes beyond stats for me in evaluating a player.

    • bexarama says:

      He hasn’t been horrible but I don’t really miss him. Also, he hit significantly better on the road last year, believe it or not.

  93. Brian Cashman is Watching says:

    Everyone check out the Colbert Report on replay. Yogi Berra makes a guest appearance. It’s short, but nice.

  94. Carlosologist says:

    Something that pisses me off: When the Yankees are referred to as the other team in New York.

  95. bexarama says:

    “BEAT L.A.” is an awful, awful chant.

    • Magnus Stultus says:

      No dumber than ‘Yankee sucks’ which is just off base factually.
      If they yell ‘Money Monger’ I would have laughed.

  96. bonestock94 says:

    I think Daniel Hudson is gonna kick ass in the NL West. Still a dumb trade by the ChiSox btw.

    • Magnus Stultus says:

      I think the original intent was to flip Jackson for Dunn, so I heard. In any case, Jackson has pitched well for the Chisox. He pitched pretty well for the Tigers LY. Chicago can afford his salary. I think it’s an okay deal.

    • Carlosologist says:

      I don’t think so. I think that the White Sox pitching coach must have done something with Jackson, because he’s been a stud since he got to Chicago. (2.05 ERA, 44 IP, 51/9 K:BB, 1.091 WHIP)

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