Oct
25

Cashman: Eiland will not return as pitching coach

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Via Mark Feinsand and Marc Carig, Brian Cashman told reporters this afternoon that Dave Eiland will not return as pitching coach in 2011. Cashman said Eiland was not being blamed for the way the pitching staff fell apart down the stretch, and that reasons for his decision to go in a different direction are “private.”

Eiland had been the team’s pitching coach since the 2008, and before that he held the same role with the club’s various minor league affiliates. His contract was up, so technically he isn’t being fired. They’re just not going to bring him back. Eiland missed basically the entire month of June for undisclosed personal reasons this year, and I wonder if that played a role in the move.

Categories : Asides

144 Comments»

  1. Stryker says:

    yikes. perhaps this had to do with the extended absence earlier in the season.

    so, who are some likely replacements then?

  2. Total Dominication says:

    indifferent

  3. Ace says:

    Time to hire Dave Duncan. This could be a great move.

  4. Andrew says:

    Seems like there is a lot more to Eiland’s situation than we’ll hear about, barring statements directly from Eiland himself. The extended absence plus prompt dismissal after the last game seem like there’s a story there that’s potentially not directly baseball related.

  5. vin says:

    I wish Dave the best of luck. I’m assuming it has almost everything to do with his extended absence this year.

    It wasn’t his fault Javy’s stuff was completely diminished, and AJ was especially erratic. Nor was it his fault CC and Phil couldn’t command a pitch to save their lives in their first 2 ALCS starts.

    • Murakami says:

      Dave Eiland buried himself by his own arrogance. If he had some personal issue that kept him from being focused, we don’t know the nature of that, and I wouldn’t presume to judge what that might be.

      But the bottom line is, his body of work was suspect – before that personal situation required a leave.

      He blamed Wang for all his troubles, trying to deflect/pre-empt any criticism that might come his way. This, after the Yankees told him, presumably under the guidance of the pitching coach, not to work on his legs in the offseason. Bad decision – and then Eiland crucified Wang publicly.

      The second red flag was declaring, in no uncertain terms, that Joba Chamerlain would “never start again.” Just HUNHHH???? A 24-year old pitcher who had all of 89 minor-league innings, and pitched extremely well as a starter in 2008, just DONE as a starter??

      WHO THE FUCK is DAVE EILAND???

      Couldn’t help Joba, the way Scott Aldred apparently could, so instead of re-applying themselves to aid his development, they threw up their hands, tossed him in the bullpen, and started to circulate rumors that he is basically a fat slob whose problems repeating his delivery stem from his own petulance and laziness.

      And every moron poster drank that bitter koolaid and declared Chamberlain a pariah.

      Joba reasonably could have some issues with discipline and maturity. HEY – isn’t it the coaching staff’s job – more specifically, the pitching coach’s – to rein in a young starter-on-training, rather than pass the buck and essentially declare the guy untutor-able???

      And WHY did he never get re-delivered to Aldred, who make great strides with him?? That’s also on Cashman and the Yankees, who traded on his development because of his early bullpen success. Fine, but they never made the adjustment, and all we heard was excuses for Davel Eiland.

      When a starter that young hits a bump, that’s not when you QUIT, THAT’S WHERE YOUR JOB STARTS.

      Dave Eiland was more concerned with covering his own ass rather than earnestly develop pitchers, a betrayed by his public statements regarding Chamberlain and Wang.

      The Yankees are just in letting him go. Perhaps Joba’s career as a starter can be re-invested in. They have wasted his talent, AND have greatly diminished his trade value, to be sure.

      • goterpsgo says:

        When a starter that young hits a bump, that’s not when you QUIT, THAT’S WHERE YOUR JOB STARTS.

        That’s an excellent point. I didn’t realize that – I hope the next guy can have a better attitude.

      • Graig not Craig says:

        Or maybe Eiland is a below average pitching coach and Joba is a below average pitcher and neither could possibly save the other – like two below average swimmers drowning in the middle of a lake.

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

          Do you really think Joba is a below-average pitcher?

        • Murakami says:

          Except that you can’t possibly leap to that conclusion when the guy has pitched 89 innings in the minors, and had a great 2008 campaign.

          There are “maybes” in everything, but the Yankees have made unequivocal statements that Chamberlain, at age 24, was a lost cause as a starter.

          That, in itself, is suspect.

          89 MiL innings alone is a ridiculous initiation period for a guy with his upside. Sorry, there’s never been a move to send him back to Aldred, who fixed his delivery and produced that pitcher who outdueled Beckett and shut down Tampa, etc.

          I SAW that pitcher…where did he go? And why wasn’t he sent BACK DOWN to Aldred?

      • Tank Foster says:

        That’s quite a rant. Are you a Yankee insider in some way, or are these just your opinions?

        • Ray the Anti-Handle says:

          Agreed. In no way am I defending Eiland, but those are quite bold statements. The organization has its hands in a lot of those things as well, so I don’t see how we can just blame a single person. Short of being inside the Yankee organization, we can’t accurately assign blame.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        You made a good point about trashing Joba. When he lost the 5 starter spot there seemed like a wave of personal attacks on his physical make-up as well as his desire to compete and now Joe G and and Cash state he is a reliever. Lol only on the Yankees can a 25 yr old kid with one full yr as a starter be viewed as a failure.

  6. Stryker says:

    everyone will clamor for dave duncan now

    EDIT: guess i’m already late on that one

  7. Esteban says:

    Well as long as they get rid of Dave Islan, the Yankees will be better off

  8. Ed says:

    Curt Young of the A’s just turned down an opportunity to return for an 8th year to seek other opportunities around MLB. He’s done a lot with that staff (although the A’s “park” clearly favors pitchers). I wonder if they will target him.

  9. Accent Shallow says:

    I’m a bit surprised by the suddenness of the move, but not totally surprised.

    As for whether this is a positive, I’m an agnostic. Since Eiland was hired based on his relationship with Hughes/Joba, it’ll be interesting to see how they pitch in 2011.

  10. Cy Pettitte says:

    wow, didn’t see that coming, maybe they weren’t confident that he’d be available to fully commit next year due to whatever caused his leave of absence?

  11. Rosco says:

    Any chance Joba might get another shot at starting with a new pitching coach coming in?

    • Granderslam says:

      No. They said they see Joba as backend BP kind of guy….or, in layman terms, trade bait. lol

      • Ellis says:

        When did “they” say that? Link?

      • Murakami says:

        Oh yeah?

        Boy, what a sell by the Yankees, led by Eiland, that Chamberlain, at the tender age of 24, is an abject failure.

        Trade him to the NL – and watch him become a viable starter with high K rates.

        Put him into the hands of a more patient organization with a pitching coach who actually wants to help him rather than villify him – and see what happens.

        Brendan Morrow, anyone?

        Of course, we’ll get nothing for Chamberlain, thanks for the smear job orchestrated by his own organization and the sycophants that peddle for them on the internet.

        • CP says:

          No one is saying that he’s a failure. They’re saying he’s a reliever.

          • Murakami says:

            Well, guess what?

            Failing to repeat your delivery is even more fatal for a reliever.

            His is comically miscast as a reliever.

            Try again, Yanks.

            • The Big City of Dreams says:

              They did a poor job in developing the kid. That’s not to say that some of the blame doesn’t fall on his shoulders because it does. But After one yr repeat one yr of being a full time starter at the age of 23-24 they determined that the trial was over. Did the Rays panic and banish him to the pen when David Price struggled in his 1st full yr no they didn’t. But of course the Yankees play by their own rules. We want to get young but please don’t struggle like every young player does. This s**t is a joke

          • deadrody says:

            He’s not.

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            A reliever that was phased out in the regular season as well as the PS

  12. Andrew says:

    ESPN New York’s crack staff is probably working on their “same old Yankees, always needing a scapegoat to fire after an unsuccessful season” columns right now.

  13. It'sATarp says:

    i bet it’s more of a personal reason than a business one.

  14. Frank says:

    I’ve always liked Rick Peterson- too bad he’s with Milwaukee. This should be an interesting hire.

  15. Adam says:

    Name to float out there…Rags, perhaps?

  16. Frank says:

    MLBTR reads Eiland was “fired.”

    • CBean says:

      Well Cashman is being quoted as saying it was his decision (Cashman’s) which gives a more legit claim to the fired rumour.

  17. larryf says:

    I hope Cash brings in a guy who has shown ability in teaching the changeup. At least this way, our pitchers could work with some of our hitters who can’t seem to handle it. Nova has a good one and so does Romulo Sanchez.

    Minor league callup? Scott Alldred?

    • Murakami says:

      I like the idea, because Scott has worked well with Chamberlain, and salvaging him could be huge for the Yanks, if he can reclaim his 2008 form.

      The botching of Chamberlain’s development has produced a domino effect.

      Ironically, they were concerned that Chamberlain’s velocity wouldn’t return, that he had a disappearing repertoire, couldn’t repeat his delivery, and wouldn’t provide enough length, and stress out the bullpen.

      They got Javy to pound innings and be the No. 4 guy. Except Javy’s arsenal was undermined because he had lost speed off his fastball, and he couldn’t give the Yankees enough innings.

      To get Javy, the Yankees sacrificed Arodys Vizcaino.

      So Javy cost them not one young pitcher, but two. Everyone said, ‘no big deal on Vizcaino (who’s now hurt, whatever the bleep that has to do with it – pitching is fraglie generally), because Javy will be a Type A and we’ll get another Vizcaino through the draft.

      Except Javy was so bad, we’ll get nothing when he signs elsewhere.

      So, the sacrifice/delay of Chamberlain’s development (exacerbated since he has run out of MiL time), and the loss of a high-end starting prospect in Vizcaino.

      All because the Yankees just “don’t have time” – or a clue – how to develop young starters.

      I am hoping and praying the new guy gets a clue.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        Very well said. That’s why the Javy deal was one that had to be a HR for it to work. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but he was a disaster this yr. Hopefully he gets picked up by an NL team and I’m guessing he will have a nice season

        • Murakami says:

          I too am rooting for Javy to get back to 2009.

          I don’t get fans who take it out on the player in a deal they don’t like.

  18. Big DaveyNJ says:

    I will step forward and throw my name in the hat to become the next pitching coach. My vast experience with MVP Baseball 2005 and turning Carl Pavano into the ace of the future in that game clearly makes me qualified for the job.

    Your move, Cashman.

  19. jon216 says:

    I know he’s getting old (62) and he’s not from the Yankee organization, but I would be happy if they hired Leo Mazzone. His experience in Baltimore showed that he wasn’t a miracle worker, but, still, that record with the Atlanta pitching stuff has to mean something, doesn’t it?

    • Steve H says:

      I know Mazzone did do well with some of the other guys with the Braves, but give any pitching coach 3 HOF’s and they’ll look pretty good. I think that ship has sailed for Mazzone.

      • Thomas says:

        Mazzone had 3 HOF pitchers in Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz as well as a top prospect in pre-injury Steve Avery, whom he may not have helped tremendously (or he may have), which make him look better than he probably is.

        However, he was the pitching coach when Atlanta did get very good seasons from Kent Mercker, Denny Neagle, Kevin Millwood, Ashby (though late his solid career), Damian Moss, Russ Ortiz, Horacio Ramirez, Mike Hampton (late in his good career), Paul Byrd, John Thompson, and Jaret Wright. Thus, he is probably still a very good coach that helped a lot of middling talent.

        • jon216 says:

          From an old ESPN article:

          “There is clear evidence. Economist J.C. Bradbury’s concludes from his extensive statistical analysis at the Sabernomics Blog, that ‘working with Leo shaves off between .55 and .85 points of a pitcher’s ERA.’”

    • pollo says:

      MAX KELLERMAN IS THAT YOU

  20. Mark says:

    Time to go after Righetti after the WS, if he’s available. He might be under a multi-year deal with them, though. He’s a former Yankee star and has quietly built up quite a resume over the past 10 years with the Giants. If not Righetti, I wonder if minor-league coordinator Nardi Contreras would be offered the job.

    • Howie says:

      I would LOVE it to be Righetti, but I wouldn’t count on it. I think he’s happy here. (I live in SF)

      • Murakami says:

        Righetti is the poster boy for wasting a starter in the bullpen.

        The Yanks probably cost themselves a couple of pennants with that move. Righetti was a LH starter who could have won 20 games.

        But George was more concerned about the “theater” of replacing Gossage.

        I have often thought that Joba could have borrowed that sign Righetti had on his locker:

        “I’M CONFUSED.”

  21. jon216 says:

    By the way, there’s a big scoop underlying this story. I’m curious what people think here: should Eiland have a right to privacy in this case? I would lean toward “no” given the high profile nature of his position as Yankee pitching coach.

    • bexarama says:

      Yes, what someone does off the field has nothing to do with their on-field stuff. As long as they’re not murdering kittens or going to KKK rallies I don’t really care.

      • Adam says:

        What if they are going to rallies about murdering kittens?

      • Esteban says:

        Or murdering kittens AT KKK rallies

      • Poopy Pants says:

        Well Ronan Tynan was fired for allegedly telling a joke and just about everyone here was cheering (Kabak was very happy).

        Just to refresh, here’s the Ronan Tynan story in a nutshell.
        Two jewish people checked out an apartment near his. These two people were very rude. At a later time, someone showed other people the apartment. This person said ‘Don’t worry, they’re not Sox fans’. Ronan said ‘As long as they’re not the two jewish people from the other day’. Someone pretended to be offended and Ronan was fired from his job. Describing people accurately is apparently now a fireable offense. RAB approved.

        • A.) That’s the only way I’ve ever heard that story outlined; everyone else has it differently.
          B.) If your version is right and everyone else’s is wrong, that’s still all on Tynan and he should apologize. If those two people being Jewish had nothing to do with his objection to them and it was simply that they were rude, he should have said “‘As long as they’re not the two jewish RUDE people from the other day”. You can’t argue that his words were poorly chosen, that’s a freudian slip that reveals the importance he placed on their Jewishness.

    • CP says:

      Why shouldn’t he have privacy in this matter? Even if it’s simply performance related (which I doubt), the fans don’t have a need to know the details of why he was not retained. The only thing that should be public is the work that he does for the team.

      • jon216 says:

        But, there certainly is a market for Yankee-related news. Journalists have a dueling obligations here: writing to the market and thus selling papers v. protecting the private lives of those they cover. For celebrities, at least, the first obligation has virtually drowned out the second.

    • Murakami says:

      I have no interest in the contents of the guy’s personal life being dumped out for people to trample on.

      I’m just glad he’s gone.

    • JerseyDutch says:

      Yes.

  22. B-Rando says:

    Its time for Mo to take the role of player-coach.

    Cutters for everyone!

    *this is not a serious comment

  23. Graig not Craig says:

    Mo can close and coach at the same time. Its high time for another player/coach in the MLB. He can teach all Yankee pitchers his cutter. He can walk out to the mound from the dugout to close games.

  24. Steve H says:

    It’s funny, the Globe speculated yesterday that the Sox might go after Greg Maddux. I highly doubt he’s interested, but if Maddux was interested in being a pitching coach, I’d go after him in a heartbeat.

    • It'sATarp says:

      if we get cliff lee and have maddux as pitching coach…does this mean our pitchers (outside prolly AJ) aren’t going to walk anyone in a season?

    • vin says:

      I, too, doubt he’d have any interest in coaching. Also, the perception is that the all-time greats don’t usually make for the best coaches and managers. I’m sure a guy like Maddux could be a great pitching coach from an execution standpoint, but I don’t know if he has that ability to nurture that some pitchers require.

      Would definitely be interesting if the Yanks got him… although about 18 years too late.

      • Steve H says:

        Yeah, I know what you mean about some all time greats struggling at coaching/managing, but I think Maddux would be good. A lot of his greatness as a pitcher was tied to his knowledge of hitters, strike zones, etc. There’s stories about how he would sit in the dugout and predict a foul ball to a certain spot on the next pitch and be right. He didn’t have a ridiculous physical advantage over other pitchers, a lot of his success came from the shoulders up. Also, I think there is something to be said for his brother being a successful pitching coach that may mean nothing, but certainly wouldn’t be a negative.

        But yeah, I doubt he’s interested.

        • vin says:

          Besides, he’s too busy making cameos on local news stations’ commercials here in Vegas.

          I do wonder if he was ever hyper-competitive with his brother. That may compel him to try his hand at coaching. Although I honestly can’t see a team like the Yanks taking a shot on an unknown.

          • tom says:

            If he was hypere-competitive with his brother, he’s already annihilated him in the only match-up history will much remember. It’d be churlish of him to try and top him in this lesser field as well.

        • nsalem says:

          I doubt we would be interested in having him after the way
          he played us in 1992. The Boss would be rolling over in his grave.

  25. Chris says:

    He probably gave Burnett that black eye. Although I don’t blame him.

  26. lordbyron says:

    Eiland’s departure leaves the door wide open for the return of Kerrigan – who did such a fine job with the Pirates pitching staff!

  27. Tom Zig says:

    Roger Clemens

    Your minds…BLOWN

  28. WE WANT MEL! WE WANT MEL!

    (not really)

  29. Howie says:

    Is it too late for John Farrell? Has he signed the Toronto contract yet? Wouldn’t it be better to be a Yankees pitching coach than a Blue Jays manager?

    /kidding

  30. John NY says:

    I knew it!

  31. Clay Bellinger says:

    Pretty disappointing start to the offseason. Obviously isn’t performance related based on Cashman’s comments, so I’d assume that whatever caused his absence earlier in the year was pretty significant. Sad to see him go…he’s the best pitching coach they had for quite some time.

    • Howie says:

      It could well be performance related. Our non-CC pitching was terrible in the second half.

      • tom says:

        Or a combination of the two. Maybe Eiland’s personal issues, even after his return, so consumed him that his attention to detail wasn’t what it should have been, allowing the pitching issues to mushroom.

        Or maybe, like everyone else here, I’m spewing what’s in my ind wthout the slightest evidence.

      • Riddering says:

        Replacing Pettitte with Nova and co. would have made the second half pitching numbers look awful even if Hughes hadn’t swooned in performance.

  32. Adam says:

    I hope they continue the trend of hiring nominal, unsuccessful Yankee pitchers from the early 90s. Personally I’m very excited for the start of the Greg Caderet era to begin.

  33. hogan says:

    perhaps this has to do with how he ruined hughes and joba’s mechanics. this is great news.

  34. Ralph says:

    Bring in Mussina. I think he understands the mechanical and mental adjustments necessary to pitch when things are going haywire.

    Otherwise recruit Al Leiter out of his broadcasting job. It’s high time the dominant 90s pitchers become our coaches, because as a 20 year old it makes me feel the warm nostalgia.

    • Adam says:

      I doubt they will go with anyone who doesn’t have major league coaching experience of some sort.

    • Murakami says:

      I love Moose, but he’s just too sour and acerbic.

      While he’s a great post-game interview because of it: “Uhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm……no,”

      I think our youngens need someone a little more upbeat. The Killer B’s will be making their way to River Avenue in a couple of years.

    • Mussina who was renown for melting down when an error was made behind him or when it was lightly misting can help out with mental adjustments now? ;) How quickly we forget

      In a more serious light, I think he has zero interest in being a pitching coach right now.

  35. Jorge says:

    Would Harkey simply just move up, though? Did Harkey show any different tendencies during his month on the job, or was he mostly following script? The summer seems like a very long time ago.

    Eiland punch Burnett? Harkey would chokeslam him.

  36. Avi says:

    I say make Mariano the coach.

  37. larryf says:

    Alot more to this then we know. They have someone in mind-maybe even hired by now. Maybe someone who knows how to get the Killer B’s here asap?

  38. Adam says:

    Right on cue, Cards announce that Duncan signed a two year extension.

  39. grassnotpAPER says:

    getting rid of eiland is the best Yankee news of the month
    better if it is just the first step
    bye bye Joe

  40. bonestock94 says:

    Indifferent I guess. Hughes made great progress but who’s to say that wouldn’t of happened anyway. Bullpen had it’s moments. AJ took a step back. Whatever, bring in the next guy. If it was Long I’d be freaking out though.

  41. ZZ says:

    Murakami,

    I think you need to step aside for a bit and grab a smoothie or something.

    You really have no idea what you are talking about in regard to Eiland’s role in the decision making process for Joba being sent to the bullpen.

    Joba is never starting a game for this team again and likely will spend his entire career as a reliever. This has been clear for some time now even if some people wanted to keep the wool over their eyes on it. Take a breather and maybe come back without all the misplaced rage. Thanks.

    • bexarama says:

      hey ZZ,

      So this post made me laugh, but can you honestly answer me why you think Joba will/should never start again? I don’t think you hate him, despite what you think I think (figure THAT sentence out). But I do think you’ve been extremely dismissive of him and you haven’t really offered up any explanations on why they should basically give up on him, at all.

      • ZZ says:

        In terms of why he will never start again, Girardi basically shut the door on the less than 5% chance of that happening today. So he is done starting for the Yankees. For anyone else? Well, teams are not going to be lining up to sign Joba as a starter after 4 straight years of relieving. I think Joba will be a successful reliever and the Yankees will re-sign him as such or he will go out on the market as one.

        Why I think they should give up on him?

        2 reasons:

        1. You evaluate him today and how he has looked/pitched the past 2 years and he is simply not a guy you dream about as a front of the rotation pitcher. His ceiling is limited the way he pitches now. He is not worth it anymore. The Yankees only go with young players who have very high upside. They will only invest the development time and ups and downs with pitchers with very high upside. It is too risky for a team that has the WS as the goal every single year to operate otherwise.

        2. Joba represents a significant opportunity cost as a starter on this team. Most people say Joba’s value is wasted as a reliever. I say he is MORE valuable as a reliever. Individual WAR does not matter when you are building a team. It is about maximizing ALL of your resources. Joba starting blocks someone else starting and that represents significant opportunity cost given Joba’s nature and ability now.

        I can go on much longer with these two points, but have wrote lengthy posts on those 2 things before. That is basically the long story short with Joba for me.

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          More valuable as a middle reliever who can’t repeat his delivery, gives up multiple runs in tight games, and is in poor shape. Where is the value in that?

          “They will only invest the development time and ups and downs with pitchers with very high upside.”

          Incorrect they only invest in pitchers when they succeed but when they fail they get banished to the minors or traded. They don’t care about development. They only pretend to

  42. jbkx says:

    Duncan would shit like a Christmas goose the first time NYC media and fans had a reason to get into him. No guts to handle the pressure.

  43. Eirias says:

    Eiland was brought up for his familiarity with Hughes, Joba, etc. in the minors anyways, not overwhelming skill.

    I wish him luck and “meh” the loss.

  44. BxBomber says:

    Jesus, people are still on the “we can salvage Joba” kick?

    Guys, give it up, this is all he’s ever going to be. A rich man’s Kyle Farnsworth on his best day, a poor man’s Farnsworth on his worst.

    Cy Young could come out of the fucking grave and not make that cat a first line starter.

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