Cashman: Starting pitching will be a priority

Re-signing Girardi is the "first order of business"
Pettitte will base retirement decision on family

It’s no secret that the Yankees starting rotation was pretty dreadful beyond CC Sabathia in the second half, but that tends to happen when you have guys like Dustin Moseley, Javy Vazquez, Ivan Nova, and messed up A.J. Burnett going every fifth day. Unsurprisingly, Brian Cashman declared that starting pitching will be a priority this offseason following last night’s season-ending loss to the Rangers, and of course all eyes will soon be on Cliff Lee. I’m willing to bet it won’t end there though, I’m sure the Yankees will be in on all sorts of pitching this winter, and rightfully so.

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Re-signing Girardi is the "first order of business"
Pettitte will base retirement decision on family
  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

    ETA on Brackman’s first start at MLB level?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      2012.

  • Bernard

    Jorge de la Rosa #6 starter/long man – come on down! Here’s to gluttony!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      That guy have Oliver Perez potential. Wild lefty with strikeout stuff and walk issues? No pls.

      • Bernard

        His 3.75 SIERA is the same as Sabathia’s and better than every other Yankee starter (AJ 4.42, Andy 4.00, Hughes 4.00, Moseley 5.02, Nova 4.64, Vazquez 4.54). 4 walks per 9 blows, but the K rate makes up for a good deal of it. Plus, he’s easily the 2nd best healthy free agent pitcher (Kuroda is probably the only one close).

        • Bernard

          Obviously, I’m not include Pettitte in that 2nd best part because I assume he’s either NY or retired.

        • Hughesus Christo

          If De La Rosa is the 2nd best pitcher on the market (non Cliff Lee divison) why would he go to NY to be the 6th starter? Why would the Yankees pay him #1/#2 FA money to be the 6th starter?

          • Bernard

            I think to a large segment of GMs 8-7, 4.22 ERA echoes a lot louder than 40th best SIERA in baseball (ahead of, among others, Price, Bumgarner, Danks, Wilson, both Santanas and Buchholz).

          • Bernard

            So I mean to say he’s a #2 or 3 starter likely to be paid less than Ted Lilly or Carl Pavano and more like a 4th/5th starter.

            • Ted Nelson

              If you and I feel like de la Rosa is a good starter, there’s a pretty good chance that one GM looking for a starting pitcher feels the same way…

              I think you’re better off saying “*if* de la Rosa flies under the radar to the point where the Yankees are comfortable paying him to not start for them, let’s go after him.” You also have to consider the number of years a team might lock up a starter vs. a long-man. And you have to consider that de la Rosa probably wants a rotation spot if the money is close, especially on a shorter deal so he can prove himself.

        • pat

          NL West. Meh.

          • Bernard

            Opponent OPS faced de la Rosa: .699, Sabathia: .719 – is there a difference? Sure – but not an inordinate one.

            I’m kidding about him actually being a 5th starter but I’ve got a bad feeling about Andy returning and I think I’d rather go with de la Rosa backed by Nova, Warren, Mitchell, etc than sell Montero and one of the Killer Bs to get Greinke (a reasonable cost considering other recent pre-free agent young ace pitcher deals like Bedard).

            • GOKU

              I don’t agree with trading Montero now that he’s about to crack the big leagues. We need help on offense too. Yeah he’s defense is below average but I think his bat will make up for it.

            • mike c

              no way it’s going to be one killer B+montero for grienke… if cash is making a blockbuster trade it’s going to be for felix anyway. zack is too much of a question mark to trade major pieces for

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                if cash is making a blockbuster trade it’s going to be for felix anyway.

                Has there even been a shadow of a scintilla of evidence to show that the Mariners are even thinking about contemplating about trading Felix Hernandez this winter?

                I’ll answer the question for you since we all know you’re incapable of answering it honestly yourself: No, there isn’t.

                Felix isn’t available. Were he available, we wouldn’t pay the exorbitant price point he’d be available at.

                Give it a rest.

      • Rob

        Who then? After Lee there ain’t much.

        And even via trade there ain’t much. The guys with the most potential maybe the one in their bullpen. And they gave him all of 15 minor league starts.

        Cashman was supposed to be developing his own. After Lee, this has 2005 off-season written all over it. Even Burnett wasn’t 10% better than league average. When do we start blaming the GM?

        • GOKU

          AJ did help us win a WS so it’s not that bad.

          • dalelama

            AJ sucks…….

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          You’re acting like if he signs Lee and Pettitte like he should (well, if Andy doesn’t retire), like CC/Lee/Hughes/Pettitte/AJ with Nova and others waiting to start is some terrible rotation

        • Ted Nelson

          “When do we start blaming the GM?”

          Probably not when you follow up a WS victory with taking the ALCS to a Game 7… Probably when you’re the Mets. There is plenty of blame to go around for losing to Texas and Cashman can get some, but let’s put things into perspective.

          “Cashman was supposed to be developing his own.”

          Did you not follow the Yankee minor league system at all this season? Who do you blame for that?

          • dave

            Ummm…it didn’t go to game 7.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Game Six, close enough. Doesn’t make much of a difference, his point still stands.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Do you not understand that “developing [your] own” doesn’t necessarily mean calling up every prospect? Sometimes it means trading them for established players, which the Yankees have done a bunch of in the last two years.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            “Sometimes it means trading them for established players, which the Yankees have done a bunch of in the last two years.”

            Or completely destroying them like they did with Chamberlain

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Hey, attrition’s part of the game. Not everyone makes it. Based on what they’ve gotten out of Joba so far, he’s more than justified the draft pick.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                How much value does a supplemental pick usually net?

                Note: I am not disagreeing with you just curious and too lazy to look it up myself.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Not much, Joba’s already the fourth best player taken with the 41st overall pick at 4.9 bWAR (including this season). He’ll move into third place next year, and into second within five or six.

                  http://www.baseball-reference......nreg&

              • toad

                Sure attrition is part of the game, but that’s no excuse for actually causing it.

                And who cares when he was drafted? You don’t evaluate a player by saying, “Well, he’s pretty good considering he was the 41st pick.” That’s judging his potential solely by what peole thought during the draft.

                When a player shows the potential Joba showed ater you re-evaluate.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  Exactly you re-evaulate what you originally thought and make a new assessment. I’m jus amazed how far he has fallen. Some of it can be put on his shoulders as well but the Yankees didn’t help either

              • The Big City of Dreams

                Justified by having a starting pitcher that many in the organization believed would be a top of the rotation pitcher turn into a non existent middle reliever that may not even be on the team when ST rolls around.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

    Thank God that Ted Lilly is not on the market.

    It’s pretty much Cliff Lee or bust.

    I know the Royals will be listening to offers on Greinke but really, it sounds like it would Montero + 1 of killer Bs as a starting point.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      Westbrook, Young and maybe Webb (if he can ever stay healthy) are the only other options I like.

      • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

        2/3 of those guys are toast

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        I wouldn’t go near Webb. The scouting reports are terrible and shoulder injuries are really serious, see Wang. Young showed nothing when he came back, either. Westbrook, maybe, but I wouldn’t want to sign him for very much.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          Javy probably has more life on his FB that Young and Webb

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            heh, agreed

            Speaking of Javy, I don’t want him back, but I hope he kills it elsewhere. Wish him nothing but the best TBH.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              Same, hopefully he has a Mussina-like bounce back

    • Andrew518

      If Greinke finds the spotlight of KC to bee too much I don’t think he’d be a good fit for NY. R Johnson, K Rogers, Javy, etc.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Yeah, he had a real hard time in the bright lights of KC, winning the Cy Young and all.

      • Ted Nelson

        re: Johnson/Rogers/Javy… Is there really a need to speculate that when a guy has a couple bad post-season starts or a bad season it was NYC? What happens when someone pitching in a small market has an off-season or gets roughed up by a strong line-up in the postseason? Can you also blame that on the city?

      • Alan

        My old girlfriend is actually Zack Greinke’s cousin. He sounds pretty normal from what she says. Clinical anxiety is different from “I can’t take pitching in New York”, especially when it’s been treated. Since then he’s been a man possessed in KC.

  • PaulF

    Right now Nova is the fourth starter for next year, so obviously pitching is a priority. Lee and Pettitte would be best.

  • C

    I’m a big proponent of working at the edges of the free agent market. Sign elite players (Sabathia, Teixiera) and undervalued players (Thames) but stay away from the middle (Burnett, Pavano).
    This class has two elite starters, Darvish and Lee. There are little other great pitchers available, not just this year but over the next four or five years as well. When there is elite talent available, we have to lock it up; we should try to get both.
    And if we can’t get either, stand pat. Never sign someone out of desperation-i’d rather give a job to Nova or work the trade market than sign a Ted Lilly or Jorge DeLaRosa

    • CapitalT

      Speaking of Pavano

      Just kidding

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      “This class has two one elite starters, Darvish and Lee.”

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....japan.html

      Fixed.

      • Andy In Sunny Daytona

        If Darvish’s team still posts him, I would guess that Darvish has a MLB team in mind that he will only play for, and by Darvish saying that he wants to stay in Japan, would probably eliminate the other potential bidders.

        Did that make any sense? Probably not.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          If Darvish doesn’t sign, the MLB team gets their bid back and Darvish returns to Japan. So that wouldn’t eliminate potential bidders.

    • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

      Even if Darvish were available, I’m still not sold on him. I do not trust Japanese starters.

      • Ted Nelson

        That’s not at all a sweeping generalization…

        • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

          Which Japanese starter had a good career?

          • Simon Wha

            Agreed. Japanese players have deception of long or odd timed wind ups and leg kicks. After you get beyond that, there’s a lot of innings they’re not used to and dont seem to have as sharp stuff. Kei Igawa, remember him?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Austin.M.Matherne Austin M. Matherne

    Agreed, except for the Darvish part. He’s not coming over to the USA, and even if he was, he would be on the same level (if not below) as Lilly, not Lee.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Austin.M.Matherne Austin M. Matherne

      Reply fail…

  • Nostra-Artist

    Mike, where are you on Soria? I think the Royals will listen, and with his team friendly deal he’ll cost plenty. But the Royals are a few years away from competing, so a deal that fills multiple needs may be too tempting to pass up.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      What’s the price? I guarantee it’s going to be too high to seriously consider.

      • Nostra-Artist

        I know they need a catcher, (I think) a 2B and someone who could grow into the closer’s job. Say Montero, Joba, Adams and some filler. I’d need to look more closely at their roster/system, but there’s something to kick around.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Fuck and No.

          • Andy In Sunny Daytona

            FUCK AND NO.

            Repeated for emphasis

            • toad

              Need bigger caps.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          Montero + Joba for Soria? I don’t mind trading either or both for the right piece but no way, that is way too much for someone that will be just a setup man for at least a year.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            Montero for Lee was a bad idea but one that is understandable.

            Montero for Soria is fucking stupid.

            • Granderslam

              Joba and Gardner for Soria? Then look for a potential LF replacement? Idk, just an idea maybe.

              • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                I wouldn’t. I mean, assuming in this case the “potential LF replacement” is Crawford, who’s a good player but not worth the years/$$ he’s gonna get. IMO the added money isn’t worth the upgrade.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              I don’t think Montero for Lee was a bad idea. If Cliff Lee leads the Rangers to the World Series, I don’t see the Yankees being able to blow Cliff Lee away with a financial offer that would get him to leave such a good place for him. He’d be the hero of the State of Texas unless the Cowboys win the Super Bowl. The DFW area is a great sports market see: the Cowboys and their massive support base, parking at Jerry World is 80 bucks…a game. With that city a good owner can do great things with a franchise, see: Cuban, Mark. A championship does wonders for a franchise, and I can easily see Cliff Lee staying if the Rangers win the World Series. Considering that no other foreseeable option is anywhere close to being as good as Cliff Lee trading a Montero/Nunez/plus package for him IMO isn’t a bad idea. Flags fly forever, and if Cliff Lee stays in Texas it’ll take a hell of a lot more than that to get a worse pitcher in Zack Greinke. Or they could just go with a crappy rotation, which also isn’t an optimal solution.

    • yankees11

      that price will start with montero. pass. royals can go fk themselves they fkin suck every year and prob b/c they make horrible trade proposals to other gm’s. i doubt any other gm even answer a call from the royals gm a piece of shit.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        I both agree with and am scared by this comment.

        • a plethora of pinatas

          lol

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’m not in love with the idea of paying what is sure to be a high price for a guy that will just be a setup man. Especially after he had shoulder trouble recently.

  • Jay T

    You also never know what might become available once the Winter Meetings begin. As for Nova, he lacked that 3rd go through on the line-ups when he pitched. I like him for long relief. Speaking of which, any work on Aceves?

    • GOKU

      he’s done. back problems don’t go away.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        At least not back problems that serious. Whatever they get out of him next year is gravy.

    • Ted Nelson

      I’m not saying that I want him in the rotation to start next season, but Nova was also a 23 year old rookie on a mid-season call-up. He is not stuck being what he was this season forever.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

    I’m willing to bet it won’t end there though, I’m sure the Yankees will be in on all sorts of pitching this winter, and rightfully so.

    Step 1: Sign Cliff Lee at all costs
    Step 2: Sign Brad Penny and John Smoltz for ridiculous depth

    • Rob

      Step 2: Jump off a cliff.

      • Hughesus Christo

        Step 3: Then you open that box…

    • mike c

      penny and smoltz? what are you smoking?

    • Jimmy McNulty

      I hope they can accomplish Step 1, but I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to suggest that Cliff Lee might stay with Texas.

    • http://www.blogs.thetenthinningstretch.com the tenth inning stretch

      Please tell me step 2 was just to mock Theo Epstein?

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

    Expensive arb eligibles or non-tender candidates?

    I wonder what the price would be on prying Ricky Nolasco away from the Marlins. Or Scott Olsen from the Nats. One of them could possibly be had for a few B prospects, perhaps.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      Wandy Rodriguez is in his last year of arbitration I believe, but that team never trades anyone and I think he’d be a Type A FA too.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Nolasco is the most interesting case, IMO. We like him (Girardi knows him, obviously), we’ve kicked the tires before, and that’s a franchise that invariably trades off arb-raise guys as they get expensive.

        But Selig’s all over Loria’s ass to spend money, and they’re opening a ballpark soon. I wonder if they pay him for PR purposes instead of dealing him.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          MLBTR said his agent said they agreed on years, they’re just 20% off in the money part.
          So if it’s a 30m deal, then that means they’re only off by 6m. (40m off by 8m, etc). Tough to see them not coming to an agreement.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Hell no to Nolasco, I love the guy but a RH fly ball pitcher in The Stadium? No thanks, he’s a basically a better version of Javier Vazquez, and I’m willing to bet that he never really pitches to his peripherals, due to his FB tendencies.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      I wonder what the price would be on prying Ricky Nolasco away from the Marlins

      I love this idea. But, high. Weren’t they just talking about signing him to some extension?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Why do people like this idea? He had a 38.3 GB% in the NL. I like the guy, but he’s a horrible fit for the park. He’s a Javier Vazquez type pitcher, not that that’s a bad thing, but he’ll never pitch to his peripherals. He’s not worth what it’d cost to get him, at all.

  • http://RAB Nuke LaDoosh

    Assuming Yanks have the farm system (pitchers and catcher) and young major leaugers (Joba, Gardner) to get Greinke, and assuming Greinke would get the Knoblauchian heebie jeebies in Da Bronx, maybe Yanks can get involved in a 3 team swap (KC, Yanks and ?) that brings them back a good front of the rotation starter who could succeed in NY.

  • bonestock94

    I’m totally shitting bricks at the prospect of not getting Cliff Lee. Lets say there’s this totally emotional Rangers WS victory and they give him a big contract. Isn’t he from the south, that could be a big motivator too. So much for irrational fears going away with the end of our season.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      He’s from Arkansas, which isn’t Texas.

      • bonestock94

        No shit, but maybe he dislikes “the union” lol. The first concern is my serious one though.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          If he turns down a 20-30m raise then it just wasn’t meant to be. I just get sick of the same storyline every offseason.

          Jason Bay loves Boston, he’ll take a 3 year deal.
          CC will only pitch on the West Coast.
          Teixeria wont come to NY because he never liked Arod.
          Holliday’s dad wants him to be a Yankee.
          etc

          • bonestock94

            Yea, you’re right.

          • Ted Nelson

            I wouldn’t discount the fact that the Rangers might win the World Series and be willing to offer Lee the same amount as the Yankees just because you’re tired of hearing the story line.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              I didn’t say he’d turn down the same amount, I’m saying they’ll offer more than Texas will, and they will.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            There’s a difference, no other team would have offered CC anywhere close to what the Yankees would offer him. With a new ownership group, a WS title, and a new TV deal the Rangers will come close to what the Yankees can offer…factor in no state income tax in Texas and I think we have a situation on our hands.

            • Peter

              Dont forget about Anaheim, they will offer similar $ to Lee too.
              And of course Yanks already have to spend 20 mil on Jete, 20 on Mo, and probably 5 on Girardi. Add another 25 for Lee and your spending 65 on 3 players not named Arod, Tex, or Sabathia.

  • mike c

    get felix and upgrade the OF

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Well obviously.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      get pujols, teach him how to be a catcher

      • mike c

        we’re already trying to do that with jesus… i’m not all that high on the kid either– we could just sign v-mart as a FA and spare the growing pains

        • pat

          Hahaha.

    • Granderslam

      I wish. If Felix was even a possibility, there would be no hesitation IMO.

  • Ghost of Scott Brosius

    What do we think a Gardner/Joba/non-killer B pitching prospect(Noesi?Warren?) could get us? That’s a starting outfielder, a potential back end starter/closer, and a decent prospect…maybe a mid-rotation starter who’s becoming a little expensive?

    • pat

      So we’ll trade an extremely valuable starting outfielder,Joba, and a B level starter prospect for a starting outfielder? Especially considering there are two good outfielders set to become FA? Now you’re just doing shit for the sake of doing shit.

      • ZZ

        What you suggest as ludicrous is actually the exact type of thing the Yankees should explore in the offseason. I am not saying the Yankees need to trade Gardner or should trade Gardner. I am very high on Gardner and think he will be even better next year.

        However, the Yankees have limited places to make moves and improve in the short and somewhat longer term with their offense. They need to target “complete” players to build their core around in the coming years and protect against aging/decline of some of their older offensive players.

        They have a great offense, but at the same time they have some fundamental issues with it that are susceptible to being exposed against certain types of pitchers and in the playoffs. I spoke about this before the playoffs start.

        LF is the one place they can conceivably upgrade in this nature. Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth are not the answers though and in many ways those 2 would make the situation worse.

        Again, I am very, very high on Gardner and do not want to trade him. However, the Yankees should and likely will explore that option this winter depending on what OF’s become available on the trade market.

    • CP

      That’s more than the Yankees/Mariners agreed on for Cliff Lee.

      So you’ll get an ace nearing FA for that kind of package.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        No…Montero > Gardner/Joba. Easily.

  • CBean

    If Andy doesn’t return (*whimper*) how do we fill that hole next year?

    • All Star Carl

      Cliff Lee.

      • CBean

        We still only have 4 pitchers then: CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ. We’re gonna need someone else. Do we try to make one of the minors into a SP?

    • thurdonpaul

      ask Bexy.

    • YankeesJunkie

      If the Yankees sign Lee then Nova is not a bad choice for the #5 role, but the Yanks may try to trade for another pitcher.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Joba to the starting rotation plz.

      (Look, there was a comment that mentioned Andy and filling holes and I restrained myself. Mostly…)

      • thurdonpaul

        sorry Bexy, i couldnt resist :)

      • Jon in CUO

        Yecch.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Yeah, going into the season with Joba as a starter is a pretty bad idea. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see him start too…but given his struggles in the bullpen, and his struggles in 2009…I don’t want to count on him unless the other four starters are Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, and Felix Hernandez.

  • Brian

    Does Joba get a shot at the rotation? Seems like we’re completely forgetting that. What’s wrong with Lee, Sabathia, Hughes, Pettitte, Joba and Nova (6th starter). Helps us save money and prospects.

    • thurdonpaul

      is AJ in the bullpen ?

      • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

        No, we traded him for Pujols who we taught to catch in spring training.

      • Brian

        Trade AJ for a bucket of BP balls…he can’t pitch in NY anymore after this year. He’s approaching Weaver/Brown status.

    • YankeesJunkie

      No, the Yanks have screwed Joba they will probably trade him.

    • JerseyDutch

      I don’t think we’ll see Joba as a starter again in pinstripes. Seems that ship has sailed. On another team he might though…

    • The Big City of Dreams

      I’d like to see Joba get a shot but we’ve seen how much he has fallen out of favor with Joe G and the organization as a whole

  • stuart

    joba screwed up Joba not the yanks. I still do not trade him but it is all joba’s fault. he has the ptiching feel of aj burnett…….

  • http://RAB Nuke LaDoosh

    Damn…I read one MSM article today and this is what I see:

    “Jeter is coming off a $189 million, 10-year contract at 36. He is expected to re-sign, perhaps for a higher average salary over a four- or five-year deal.

    New York could start to think about transitioning Jeter from shortstop to make room for Eduardo Nunez, a Triple-A All-Star who hit .289 with four homers and 50 RBIs at Scranton-Wilkes-Barre.”

    • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

      facepalm.

    • dalelama

      Jeter @$12M per for 3 years and not a dime more if he doesn’t like it let him walk as no one else is going to pay nearly that much. If he walks sign Crawford and trade Gardner for an average shortstop and sign Lee.

  • John

    I say bring in Lee. Fire Eiland, and get a pitching coach that can solve Joba’s issues and help Hughes develop a better changeup.

    • CBean

      Why exactly are we firing Eiland?

      • John

        Why? AJ turned to crap, Hughes had no out pitch in playoffs, and overall poor adjustments by every pitcher in playoffs. Joba screwed Joba but I think a fresh coach will help.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Like who? Name a coach that can come in fresh with little to no knowledge of the pitching staff and fix all those problems.

          • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

            Dave Duncan (he is the guy that once got an effective year out of Jeff Suppan)

            Mel Stottlemyre (just to screw over the Mariners)

            George W. Bush (he threw a slider with a bullet proof vest on)

            Ron Guidry (dude his nickname is Louisiana Lightning, nuff said)

            Leo Mazzone (fact: he created Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine)

            Warren Spahn (he has an award named after him)

            John Farrell (We too can have 5 aces)

            • Jimmy McNulty

              I love Dave Duncan, but bringing in an ego like that isn’t really the best idea, plus he’s following LaRussa.

            • Evan3457

              Mazzone “created” Maddux? Really?

      • a plethora of pinatas

        So we can have Kevin Long take that position to fix AJ and Joba.

    • Shaun

      God can’t fix what’s wrong with Joba, he’s gone. (I’m sick of the Joba drama, let’s trade him and hope we get someone nice in return) If he turns into an ace for another team, so be it I won’t cry about it because he has not been reliable in two years. The yankees jerked him around but it shouldn’t take 2+ years to get your act straight.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Maybe he isn’t all the way back from the injury he sustained 2 yrs ago. Before that the kid was a stud.

  • mike c

    i’ve already debated this but:
    granderson/swisher/jesus/hughes/joba for felix, sign cliff lee + werth. that doesn’t leave us very much budget money (about the same as 2010 payroll) but we could add nova to the 5th, and then add a veteran (budget minded) LF or trade a laird type for a serviceable OF. that leaves us with the open spot at C– arod + jeter’s discount might give us flexibility to get john buck or defensive C to replace cervelli as well, but that might be a challenge. or we could just sign cliff lee and andy pettitte and leave the team the way it is now, i’m cool with either

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      You’re just embarrassing yourself now. Stop being an idiot.

      • mike c

        awwww the teacher’s grumpy after watching his pathetic team blow it last night. if you can’t have some fun and wishful thinking about next year then go get laid or something

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          What part of what you said sounds remotely realistic? You’re wasting everyone’s time with that nonsense.

          • YankeesJunkie

            Terminate!

            • mike c

              yeah start banning people you rudely disagree with, that makes you look like an adult

          • mike c

            it’s plausible… the numbers work assuming the M’s would bite on a 5 player trade for KF

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              It’s not plausible. They already have three outfielders under contract for something like $33MM combined, why would they want two more?

              • mike c

                because they have ichiro and 2 guys who suck, i would think

        • mike c

          i’ll even spot you the hundy

        • JerseyDutch

          Way to take the high road, dude.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            When in doubt, ad hominem!

            • mike c

              hey i’m not the guy who called you an idiot. although i’m certain you’d be nice to me in public

              • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

                I doubt it, Mike once cut off a van full of nuns and flipped them off while doing so.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                He didn’t call you an idiot the first time you suggested your idiotic idea, he called you an idiot after you idiotically suggested your idiotic idea for the fifth time despite everyone already telling you your idea was idiotic.

                I’d say he’s justified in breaking his own rule by this point. You are what you are, an idiot.

                • mike c

                  i may be an idiot, but you’re an ugly, wimpy geek. $100 bucks says i beat you in an IQ test

                  • mike c

                    $100 bucks and i leave RAB if you beat me

                    • Rory

                      For a while, I thought you were being sarcastic with you suggestions. But no, you really are an idiot. Felix Hernandez is not somebody that the Mariners would even remotely consider trading considering the extension they just signed him to.

    • pat

      Who were you debating with? The other insane people who inhabit your brain?

      • JerseyDutch

        Heh. I have to remember that one.

  • Anthony Murillo

    Starting pitching is obviously a top priority. It always will be for any MLB team, at least one that intends on competing every single season.

    I don’t know if I feel so confident in the Yankees signing Cliff Lee. I hope to God they do because, as it’s been noted here, the other options aren’t very appealing.

    The Yankees need to sign two starting pitchers, hopefully one being Andy Pettitte and the other being Cliff Lee. A starting rotation of Sabathia/Lee/Burnett/Pettitte/Hughes would be tremendous. I also think AJ’s going to have a bounce back season…

  • jeremy

    heres a few potential scenarios:
    1) yankees sign cliff lee, the world doesnt end, pigs dont fly blah blah blah.
    2) lee signs with rangers, phillies somehow have prospects to get greinke and 1/2 of all yankees fans kill themselves.
    3) dont get lee BUT trade joba, gardner, romine, brackman, warren/phelps and nunez/adams for greinke and sign crawford (5yrs. 80m) OR jason werth (3yrs. 40-50m) very low guesstimates btw
    4) 1 and 3 happen and yankees have very strong chance at becoming a dynasty for the next 5 or so years

    hoping lee signs with yanks and IF the yanks somehow could make a reasonable offer without giving up a montero/betances/heathcott/man-ban, then get greinke. Imagine this:
    CC
    Lee
    Greinke
    AJ
    Hughes
    if AJ is the 4th starter i doubt he’ll have ANY pressure and maybe it would relax him a bit to let him just pitch and focus more. people worry about greinke in New York but as long as he isnt expected to be the greatest pitcher ever, i dont think he’d have as much pressure on himself and stuff either. greinke would potentially be a HUGE gamble, especially in terms of prospects BUT IF they could get him for a REASONABLE cost for BOTH sides, i’d say go for it!

    • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

      Werth will sign 5 year or 6 year deal minimum

      • jeremy

        i doubt any team will offer 6 years for him. he’s 32 (i think) i’d say yanks top offer would be 4 yrs at 65m with option for 5th year making total value around 5 yrs at 80-85m. very similiar to bay’s deal with mets

        • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

          His agent is Scott Boras.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            So was Johnny Damon’s.

  • Chris

    Yankees should sign Cliff Lee and Rafael Soriano no matter what. If Pettite retires, which I think he will, sign Carl Crawford and move Gardner back to CF and trade Nova and Granderson for Dan Haren to the Angels who need outfield offense in the worst way.

    Starting rotation: Sabathia, Lee, Hughes, Haren and Burnett with Soriano and Rivera at the back of the bullpen.

    • jeremy

      i like the idea of soriano BUT i doubt HE would like the idea of setting up mo especially after he just had an exceptional season closing. he’s going to get a ton from some team in need of a closer.

    • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

      Or the Angels can just keep Haren and sign Crawford.

      • jeremy

        when are the angels going to realize that signing every outfielder available wont fix them lol matthews jr, hunter, rivera, vlad, abreu, matsui etc. I think they’l go after beltre

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          A bunch of these OFs have been really productive for them, though. Abreu can’t play out there any more, so I expect he’ll be DHing, but Crawford would probably be perfect, plus he fits their whole FAST!!! STEALING BASES!!!! BUNTING!!!! BS (note: I’m not saying this is all Crawford does, he’s a very good player, just this is a perception of him). If Crawford’s not an Angel I’ll actually be kinda surprised.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            I think they’re getting away from the “shooting yourself in the foot” strategy.

    • Reggie C.

      Some team will allow Soriano to close and earn Papelbon-level money. Why would Soriano consider a set-up role? I doubt Cash would want to be the guy who gives a set-up guy $10/$11 million annually.

  • Granderslam

    The pitching all depends on Pettitte…Lee is certainly a priority, but if Pettitte goes then we need to add a viable arm through the trade route. Lee and…Greinke? Sounds good, but who knows what they are looking for.

    As far as the outfield goes, it’s going to be difficult to sign both Lee and Crawford/Werth, so I am sure that Gardner will be our 2011 starting Left Fielder unless Cash can turn Joba, Gardner, and some prospects into someone even better…which I doubt.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

    Cliff Lee or Bust. No ifs ands or buts.

    Bring back Andy Pettitte.

    If you’re going to screw with the outfield, at all then trade Rasmus or Kemp. I’d take either of those two over Werth or Crawford any day.

    Disclaimer: I’m terrible at evaluating trade proposals and this proposal probably sucks. And I won’t be offended if you tell me it sucks.

    Gardner, Joba, Nova, and either Adams or Warren (or both if need be) for Rasmus or Kemp. I bet you could stroke TLR’s and Dave Duncan’s egos a bit and make them think they could fix Joba.

    Who hangs up first?

    I’ll answer it for you guys and say the Cards and Dodgers do.

    • Granderslam

      I totally agree Rasmus and Kemp are great OF trade options. I would personally trade for them any day. Then, we can focus on Lee’s big contract, a possible SP through trade (if Andy doesn’t resign), and upgrade the OF without spending big on Crawford/Werth.

      • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

        We don’t NEED to upgrade the outfield, although I don’t think Gardner will be as good next year. But if we DO decide to upgrade the outfield then go for Rasmus or Kemp.

        • Granderslam

          I agree that we don’t need to upgrade the OF, but if there is such an obsession with Crawford/Werth, then we can substitute their ability with a younger, cheaper option in Rasmus/Kemp.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          The Outfield is fine, it’s the rotation that blows.

    • ZZ

      That would be an attractive package for the Dodgers.

      Option C: Neither hangs up, because depending on how much the Dodgers want to move Kemp a trade could be made using those or similar pieces.

    • Reggie C.

      I’d rather sign Werth or Crawford than trade for Kemp. Rasmus on the other hand … interesting for sure. Rasmus however is one of the brighter NL talents around, on par with Jay Bruce. You’re going to have to start with one of the killer Bs and add a Heathcott before the Cards GM listens.

      Think: BG, Nova, + BANUELOS and HEATHCOTT. You still wanna do it Zig?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        There’s no way in hell Rasmus or Kemp fetches that much.

        • Reggie C.

          SO that’s a no. GM John Mozeliak shouldnt take anything less. This is Coby Rasmus we’re talking about … dude is secured cheap till 2015.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            I forgot all those players mentioned are expensive superstars.

  • Mosha

    Any chance Cashman tries to deal with Beane? The A’s had the best AL staff, all of them young. And they were missing one of their best, Outman. By WHIP and ERA, what will be their number four starter, Braden, would’ve been the #1 starter on the Yankees this year.

  • Jerome S

    Simplicity is the key this offseason;
    The Yankees did great; not good, not well, great. Overhaul-type measures are completely unnecessary. The Yankees have more “elite” players than any team in baseball (Jeter, A-Rod, Cano, Teixeira, CC, Granderson hopefully and others). We don’t need to strip our farm system bare for one great arm from KC, or a big bat from Florida; we already have those types of players. We are getting to cute, too smart, and we’ll get bit in the ass for it. The 2010 Yankees were 6 wins away from number 28. We need tweaks. Another pitcher, yes, maybe another bat, but nothing major. And we certainly don’t need to trade away the Yankees outfield to get it.

    This was not 2008. We don’t need to restructure a lineup to compete. Simplicity is the key.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Jeter and Alex Rodriguez are no longer elite players. I also wouldn’t call CC elite anymore either. He didn’t finish in the top ten for starters WAR, and I don’t think he’s a top five pitcher anymore.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Well it depends what WAR you use. On B-Ref he was behind only Felix.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          I think B-Ref just goes by straight RA for their replacement level while fangraphs uses FIP to determine value. He had a rather pedestrian K/9, K/BB, and GB%. I still think he’s a really good pitcher, but I wouldn’t call him an elite starting pitcher.

      • MPQ

        21 wins with a 3.17 ERA is elite in my book.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          BARTOLO COLON’S 2006 CYA CAMPAIGN FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        I saw your comment that the rotation “blows.” While I want them to definitely do some things with the rotation this offseason, if you’re really not satisfied with CC at the top of a rotation I doubt you’ll be satisfied with anything they can do with the Yankee rotation.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Yes, the rotation blows.The Yankees were in the bottom ten of FIP and xFIP in all of baseball, I’d say that definitely qualifies as blowing. While it’s not that I’m not satisfied with CC at the top of the rotation, per se. I was definitely not satisfied with having two replacement level starters in the rotation, combined with Dustin Moseley getting significant innings. Phil Hughes, while a valuable young cost controlled pitcher, has serious issues with his FB tendencies, and hence the long ball. Flat out, I no longer think that CC Sabathia is a top ten starter in baseball anymore, although I would be thrilled with a rotation fronted by Cliff Lee.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            Fair enough. I don’t take FIP or xFIP as gospel at all, but I do know the Yankees did really poorly there. Re: the two replacement level starters, we had that last year too and one of them will be gone next year. Moseley got significant innings because of injury. Hopefully next year the sixth starter is Nova, who I’m not really crazy about based on what I’ve seen but who’s gotta be better than Moseley.

            Agreed I would really, really like Cliff Lee.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              I’m not that high on the rotation next year…I don’t expect Pettitte to be this good again, but do expect him to pitch more innings, I think Hughes will slightly improve, AJ can’t possibly be worse, but I also don’t think CC will have the same kind of year he did last year and I expect him to regress due to aging and other natural concerns…and I have serious worries about Cliff Lee staying in Texas. Though since I want other people’s inputs, I think this would be better served moving to the open thread.

              • Jerome S

                CC will only be in his age 30 season. The next three years will all be great, maybe around age 34 he will start fading. I don’t see a guy who uses a changeup as effectively as him aging too bad.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    Cliff Lee, then if the Cardinals decide to place Rasmus on the market offer Gardner/Betances for him. Keep Montero, and except for a pitcher or reliever on a one year deal, and maybe a trade for bench depth keep the roster the same.

  • pat

    Sign Crawford and Werth. Trade both to Seattle for Felix. There outfield suckx. Boom, so easy, Cashman is a joke.

    • Rory

      so was that I’m hoping

  • MPQ

    Andy needs to be after Sabathia or Lee. Burnett belongs as 4-5. Sabathia, Lee, Pettitte, Hughes, and Burnett is a good rotation.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    While not directly related to starting pitching the remaining budget is going to depend a lot on what Jeter gets…I hipe he’ll take an ownership stake in the team. He’d be good to have around for PR and enticing future HS draft picks to sign with the Yankees. Plus it’ll save the team money on the payroll and it’d probably pay Jeter more overall and assure that he’ll never ever need to worry about money ever again…ever. He can give the ownership stake to his great grandchildren and it’d still probably pay for their college and their great grandchildren’s college.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      I hope he’ll take an ownership stake in the team.

      That’s impossible without Selig’s personal approval, which he wouldn’t give in a million years.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Why not? If it’s a very small ownership stake…just enough to make money off of, but not enough to have any weight in decision making, I don’t see what Selig’s problem would be, aside from his problem with letting anything reasonable happen.

  • Scott

    Here are several rotation options for next year( all assuming Pettite retires)

    1) CC, Lee, Darvish,Hughes, AJ
    2) CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ, Nova
    3) CC, Darvish,Hughes, AJ, Nova
    4) CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Noesi/Phelps
    5) CC, Hughes, AJ, free agent SP not named Lee, Nova
    Those are all good options compared to other teams in the AL

    • ChrisNJ

      I don’t think they’ll go after Darvish. He’s gonna cost $75 million in posting and probably 5 yrs/$50 million to sign. If they wouldn’t spend $30 million last year for Aroldis Chapman, I can’t see them spending that for Darvish.

  • ChrisNJ

    I think we all agree the Yanks need to shore up the pitching staff including the bullpen. Assuming Kerry Woods doesn’t come back, I don’t think you can trust Robertson or Joba for setup man. I’d like to see them throw closer money at Rafael Soriano otherwise they’ll have to roll the dice on guys like JJ Putz, Joquin Benoit, Kevin Gregg or Scott Downs and you can never be sure what you’ll get out of them. Only other option is you’ll have to hope one of the young guys from the Betances/Banuelos/Brackman/Noesi/Warren/Phelps/Nova group can fill the role down the stretch if Joba or Robertson don’t step up.

    • a plethora of pinatas

      Soriano will be expensive. I wouldn’t mind Benoit. He’s only a type B. We could use a better lefty option as well since Marte is a question mark and Logan isn’t as good as everyone thinks.

  • a plethora of pinatas

    Does anybody think that acquiring Greinke could help steer Cliff Lee to the darkside? Sabathia, Lee, Greinke, Hughes and Burnett is better than Lee, Wilson, Lewis, Hunter and Holland. Shoot, it’s better than Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels, Blanton and Kendrick. So Cliff Lee wants to play for a winner??? With that rotation we’ll be a dynasty.

    • Andrew Brotherton

      I think Cliff Lee is a separate entity and he will def. be a hired gun to whoever pays him the most. Which unless the Nationals are really serious about their plans to overpay for starting pitching will be the Yankees. I think someone like Benoit would be great. If Darvish is posted why wouldn’t we take a chance? The posting fee doesn’t go against the luxury tax. Just because a few had some problems doesn’t mean all of them will. A Sabathia, Lee, Darvish, Burnett, and Hughes rotation with Nova waiting in the wings is a great rotation. Also when it comes to Chapman, no-one was expecting Cincinnati to throw that much money at Chapman also everyone expected him to be a reliever.

      • Jerome S

        I will say it now: The Nats don’t have the balls.
        THE BALLS.

        Until Bryce Harper comes in and starts tearing the cover off of the ball Roy-Hobbs-style, that team is in the doldrums.

  • Dayners81

    I don’t think i’m as worried about not getting Lee as everyone else seems to be. He knows the Yanks want him and he wants a huge payday, he’d be stupid not to say he like it where he is especially now the team has the money to pay him, it postering for a bigger deal and its working.

    He was extatic to be trade to the Yanks when that deal was supposed to go down. He’s very close with both CC and AJ and there recuiting the shit out of him. One other huge thing we have on our side is Lee and CC wives are best friends, they were talking about living in the same neighborhood and getting there kids in the same schools. His wife will have a big say in this. Theres nothing Texas has that we aren’t going to be able to offer him. They will compete for yr with him in the rotation, SO will we. We have the best fan base in the world(admittedly some are a little stupid from time to time). Both teams will score alot of runs for him, both have very good defensives to play behind.

    In NY he gets to play with close friends, his wife gets to be near her BF, and he doesn’t have to shoulder the load all by himself, and we will offer the most money.

    Cash is going to search everywhere for pitching, If for some reason Darvish gets posted and Pettite retires they go after him, if Greinke takes us off his no trade list they kick the tires on him. They will talk to every team to see if a quality starter becomes available. I would bet that he make both Granderson and Gardner available, and every prospect but Sanchez and Banuelos. Cash does have a great love for Betence since he said he was the best pitching prospect they’ve ever had so he may be off limit also.

    In a perfect world for me we sign lee and bring Andy back. If Andy doesn’t some back i would prefer Darvish if he’s posted, Then Greinke if we come off his no trade list. After that it will be names we haven’t heard yet that will come out at the winter meetings. Cash has the money and prospects to go and get anyone who’s available, key word available. To all the people out there that keep mentioning Felix or Josh johnson they aren’ going to be made available for any price, they are both signed long term to team friendly contract with young teams. So move on from those 2

  • don draper

    I just love the Hot Stove season.I just wish the season ended a little better.