Oct
16

Olney: Royals intend to listen to offers for Greinke

By

With a hat tip to MLBTR, Buster Olney reports that the Royals plan on listening to trade offers for 2009 Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke this offseason. They have a boatload of prospects coming up through the system, but Greinke can be a free agent after 2012 and the time tables don’t match up. He’s under contract for $13.5M in each of the next two seasons.

The Yankees are going to be on the lookout for at least one starting pitcher this offseason, perhaps two, so expect them to get their names thrown into the Greinke ring regardless of what happens with Cliff Lee. A lot will be made of Greinke’s battle with social anxiety disorder by people that don’t really understand what it is, especially after some of his past comments (“New York, I still might have trouble in New York. I probably would. But I think almost everyone does.”), but the fact of the matter is that no one knows how he’ll handle it until he’s actually put in that situation. We’ll have more on Greinke in the offseason, I’m sure of it, but if you’re going to take a gamble on a guy with anxiety disorder, wouldn’t you want to do with someone as young (27 next week) and amazingly awesome (19.6 fWAR since 2008, more than CC Sabathia and behind only Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, and Lee) as Zack Greinke?

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    I hope he gets traded to the N.L. West.

  • Poopy Pants

    No thanks.

  • UncleArgyle

    I bet the Royals would definitely listen to an offer built around Gardner and Joba.

    • Dream of Electric Sheep/ still haven’t register /too lazy

      If you throw in Brackman and Montero, yes.

      • UncleArgyle

        Royals have tons of young DH/1st basemen types, I don’t think they’d insist on Montero if the rest of the package was strong

        • UncleArgyle

          I’ve also heard the Royals LOVE Brett Gardner

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          And I doubt they want Joba who’s hitting arbitraton this offseason.

          • UncleArgyle

            Joba is from the KC area and has some upside. KC might be ok with paying, what, 2mil and change for a starter?

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              It’s about team control. They’re moving Greinke because he won’t be around to see the team develop, Joba is only under contract for 1 year more than Greinke.
              They wouldn’t ask for a package without Montero, even if they have 1B/DH types it gives them another asset to either keep if someone doesn’t work out or spin to another team.

              • UncleArgyle

                I guess, I was thinking KC would be more interested in turning one asset (Grienke) into many more assets. At worst you could flip Joba to another team if he pitches well. Anyway, I think the yanks should just sign Lee and be done with it.

        • pat

          The Royals wanted Montero for Soria.

      • MikeD

        Gardner, Joba, Montero and Brackman for a man who just put up a leave-average season with an ERA+ of 100? That deal would haunt the Yankees for a decade minimum. Vintage George Steinbrenner of the 1980s.

        Looking at Greinke’s career, it’s obvious that 2009 was an outlier. He has a pretty good track record and has established himself as a solid starter, but he’ll never come close to 2009 again. He is not in the King Felix class.

        Pass. Pass. Pass.

    • Big Juan

      For Greinke? It’ll take a lot more than that.

  • Nick!

    Here’s the thing though: Is his true talent level 2009 or 2007/08/10? Is it worth shipping out your top guys for a dude who might be a 3.80 ERA pitcher?

    • It’sATarp

      3.34 FIP and a 3.76 xFIP suggests his true talent level is around the low to mid 3 ERA

    • Ted Nelson

      He’s also been very good in 2008 and 2010, even if not totally dominant. He’s been consistently very good, hence the top 4 fWAR. Most likely you’d get more 08/10 seasons with one or two more 09 seasons possibly thrown in there in a realistic best case scenario. If he’s a top 4 pitcher in the next 3 years as he has been the last 3… there are only 3 other pitchers you trade more of the farm for…

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      My thoughts too.

  • Big Stein

    I’ll wait for CJ Wilson who hits the FA market next season.

    More leftys, please.

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      Wow the guy has one good start against the Yankees and suddenly he’s the second coming of Sandy Koufax.

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        And he’s (relatively) old.

      • Chris

        His season this year was very good, not just one start. That said, he’s almost certain to be over paid because this is probably a career year.

        • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

          He sucked against the Yankees this season. Pass.

          • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

            Oh, not to mention he led the league in walks. As in he had more than A.J. Burnett.

            • steve (different one)

              but he’s lefty!

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              That should be the heading on his B-ref page: More walks than AJ Burnett

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        The exact thing that happened to Cliff Lee? Yeah, not about to take a guy who threw almost as many innings as the previous four years combined. Triple pass.

  • currambayankees

    This guy couldn’t handle stresses of KC, what the heck makes some people think he can handle the PRESSURE COOKER that is NEW YORK. This would be a dumb trade by Yankees if they give up anyone like Joba, Romine, Betances, Brackman, Montero, Banuelos and few others. The guy won’t make it NY, he has troubles with the mental side of his life.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      He’s done a pretty bang up job handling Kansas City over the last four years.

    • whozat

      Look, it’s one of those “people that don’t really understand what [social anxiety disorder] is”

    • I Voted 4 Kodos

      His problem wasn’t necessarily “handling the pressure,” it was social anxiety. He received treatment for it, and, as Mike said, it’s obvious from looking at his numbers the last few years that he’s handled the stresses of KC very well.

      You have no way of knowing how he’d handle NY and neither do I. To summarily dismiss the possibility of the Yankees trading for one of the best young pitchers in baseball because he received treatment for a mental disorder you have no direct knowledge about is stupid.

      If the Yankees do inquire about and ultimately make a deal for Greinke, I have no doubts that they’ll examine the issue very carefully.

      • currambayankees

        I noted who, the Yankees shouldn’t trade for this guy, if the price is right and you don’t have to give up the prospects I mentioned along with a few others then by all means trade for the guy and see as you seem to think he can make it in NY. btw, I recall reading somewhere Greinke wouldn’t want to come to NY or Boston specifically because of his anxiety disorder.

    • steve (different one)

      strike montero from that list and i disagree.

      i would trade any of those other guys for Greinke.

  • I Am Not The Droids You’re Looking For

    If the price includes Jesus = FAIL.

    Need another seasons closer to 2009 than the rest before believing he is truly elite.

    • Ted Nelson

      He has been arguably the 4th best pitcher in baseball the last 3 seasons, but he’s not “elite?” What is “elite,” then?

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        “Elite” is pitching a good game against the Yankees in the playoffs. Duh. Until you’re a True Yankee Killer, you aren’t elite.

      • deadrody

        4th best in baseball ? Not even close. 2009 ? Yes. 2008 and 2010 ? Not a chance.

        xFIP:

        2008 21st (Lee 12th)
        2009 6th (Lee 10th)
        2010 23rd (Lee 2nd)

        WAR:

        2008: 16th (Lee 4th)
        2009: 1st (Lee 6th)
        2010: 11th (Lee 1st)

        Is he in the top 10 ? Perhaps. But then Cliff Lee is in the top 3, and is in the argument about the overall #1. So, you go extremely hard after Lee, including considering giving him the extra money you would have to spend replacing even the middle of the road production from Montero if you traded him for Greinke.

        Cliff Lee is option 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3, and 4. Greinke is the fallback, “this sucks”, option. Not only do you get a lesser quality pitcher, but you have to give up top of the line talent AND the same money as Cliff Lee.

        For the record, Elite is Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, Verlander, Josh Johnson, King Felix… Need I go on ? Greinke’s 2009 season was the best in baseball, but his 2008 and 2010 seasons were very good, not great.

        AND he would absolutely get hit harder against Toronto, Tampa, and Boston than against the AL Central. That isn’t even open for debate.

        • MikeD

          This.

  • Dream of Electric Sheep/ still haven’t register /too lazy

    In a deal of this magnitude, I would begrudgingly move Big Game Moseley for him. But KC better kick in a few prospects back.

  • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

    but the fact of the matter is that no one knows how he’ll handle it until he’s actually put in that situation.

    This is a good point. Everyone has their opinions but no one, including Greinke really knows what would happen. There is certainly extra risk involved if he came to New York, so I wouldn’t mind seeing the Yankees dip their toes in the water, I wouldn’t give up too much in return. If you can get him for the right price I’m in. If it’s going to cost several top prospects (which it will), count me out.

  • pete

    I think it’s obviously worthwhile to kick the tires, but I wouldn’t go past Gardner + Joba + two lesser prospects. I’d balk at anything that included Montero or Banuelos.

  • Grit Storage

    “but if you’re going to take a gamble on a guy with anxiety disorder…”

    Sure, if NYY had to sign a guy with S.A.D. I’d be happy to get Greinke. But, unless there’s a rule change this offseason, I’m pretty sure Yankees don’t have to have anyone with anxiety disorder on the roster to field an official team. Greinke to NY has bad news written all over it, though maybe they can just up his dosage.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      What’s the worst that could happen, he turns into Javy Vazquez? Considering his age, talent level, and recent performance, I’m in the camp that thinks it’s worth the risk.

      • Guest

        First, like you, I am really not too pleased with all of the posters with no meaningingful knowledge of S.A.D. (terribly unfortunate acronymn) stating out of hand that Greinke has no chance of succeeding in New York.

        He’s an incredibly talented young pitcher who has taken pro-active steps to deal with his disorder (and based on his success with an ATROCIOUS baseball team, those steps have apparently worked). Of course he could be successful in NY.

        That said, I think your “what’s the worst that could happen?” thought is understating the risk a bit. To get Greinke, we’d have to give up a lot more than what we gave up for Javy Vazquez. And if that package includes Montero, well…then the worst case scenario would be we gave up the next Mike Piazza and Greinke’s earlier reservations about playing in New York turn out to be well founded. That’s a pretty bad downside.

        But, the upside is so high–27 year old stud ace for many years to come—that I think the trade would still be worth making. Especially since I think the probability that Greinke is great in NY is much higher than the probability that Greinke flops. All I’m saying is let’s not kid ourselves. Sending the requisite huge package of prospects to the Royals for Greinke presents a large risk. High risk, higher reward.

      • steve (different one)

        What’s the worst that could happen, he turns into Javy Vazquez?

        Well, yeah. If you trade 3 blue chippers and get Javy Vazquez, that would be a disaster.

        Don’t get me wrong, count me as someone who agrees that he’s worth the risk, but i disagree with the ease at which we could dismiss the “worst case” scenario. that would be really bad.

    • Ted Nelson

      Again, if you haven’t personally examined him and are not personally someone with extensive knowledge in the area… why comment on the specifics?

  • ZZ

    “A lot will be made of Greinke’s battle with social anxiety disorder by people that don’t really understand what it is”

    Thank you for mentioning this in the post Mike. It really is disturbing how many people speak about Greinke’s condition without any clue what it entails.

    I don’t think people realize how offensive it is to speak about the condition in the manner they do.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      A hundred times this. His battle in overcoming his disorder is harder than pitching in any media market, New York or otherwise. People who say otherwise are just speaking out of ignorance.

      • currambayankees

        Look, I have a few friends who have Anxiety Disorders and let me tell you that all though they are being treated for it when the pressure turns up their disorder also ambushes them out of no where.

        • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

          Zack Greinke has succeeded as a major league pitcher. Is there no pressure in being a major league pitcher? Every start he makes affects his future earning potential. The guy has handled pressure. Please stop playing amateur psychologist.

    • deadrody

      In WHAT manner ? By admitting that he has it ? Or that there is ZERO percent chance it makes him less prone to having problems in NY ?

      Sounds an awful lot like a sad strawman argument to me. There is absolutely quantifiable risk in bringing Greinke to NY. Anyone that denies that is a fool. And you don’t need to know a thing about the disorder to say that.

  • Sam

    Joba, Romine, Banuelos get it done?

    • Sam

      Let me also just say, I’m more than a little peeved that we didn’t go harder after Dan Haren this year.

      • Mike HC

        Really? Haren would be our fourth starter. Either taking the place of AJ, or taking the place of CC on three days rest. I really don’t think the upgrade for one game is that great. Especially if we had to give up Joba and others for him. Joba is really good. He is going to get better and have a really good career. Lets hang on to him.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

          One I dunno about that, two if he does it won’t be with the Yankees.

          • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

            What are next week’s lotto numbers?

          • steve (different one)

            Your predictions last night were so accurate, I’m going to just take this as gospel.

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

              Yeah, because the belief that you can’t come back from a four run deficit in two innings against a good team is totally unreasonable…furthermore, this a bit different. If the Yankees had plans to make Joba a starter they probably would have moved him back to the role of a starter once Pettitte went down or Javier Vazquez ceased being an effective starter. I’m far from the only one (even here) that think Joba won’t start for the Yankees.

              • steve (different one)

                But who said anything about Joba starting? The post said Joba will “have a good career”.

                You said “it won’t be with the Yankees”.

                Which, of course, no one knows shit about. Stop changing the argument.

        • Accent Shallow

          I’ll pass on Haren.

  • http://pda.88000.org/wallpapers/48/Pikachu_Dressed_as_Hitler.jpg Do Not Feed The Trolls!

    Jeff Francoeur + Rich Ankiel + Ghost of Kyle Farnsworth

  • vin

    If the Yanks whiff on Lee, then maybe they pursue a guy like Grienke. Problem is, he’d take a considerable amount of talent to acquire:
    A) he’s a really talented pitcher
    B) he’s young
    C) it wouldn’t be a straight salary dump because of his reasonable price tag, youth and talent level

    I’d rather the Yanks go all in for Lee, and play the next couple of years by ear.

  • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

    Ironically, Greinke is one of the few pitchers I WOULD trade teh Jesus for.

    • Mike HC

      But look at his career numbers, and his numbers from last year. They are not that great, and pretty much indicate he is not going to be some second ace to CC, but closer to being a middle rotation guy. Even if the Yanks only add Greinke in the off season, he may very well end up being our fourth best starter behind CC, Pettitte and Hughes. And if we add Lee, then he is our fifth best guy.

      • steve (different one)

        They are not that great,

        Maybe not “that great”, yet still “pretty great”.

        Calling Greinke a middle of the rotation guy is just crazy talk.

        • Mike HC

          He had an over 4 era for the Royals this year. And a career era of 3.82 pitching in the AL Central. It is fair to assume his era will rise in the AL East. I’m not sure why you would expect him to pitch as well as the CC’s, Lee’s and Halladay’s of the world. It is highly likely that he will pitch closer to the level of Pettitte and Hughes. And to be honest, I will take Pettitte on the mound over Greinke any day right now. And Hughes may very well be better than Greinke right now, and is only improving.

          Just my opinion.

          • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

            Why do you assume it will rise? Sure he’ll be pitching in the AL East but he’s only 27. Remember, KC sucks; they were probably pitching him in the majors too early, because what did they have to lose? When he put it together, he REALLY put it together.

            • Mike HC

              I like Greinke. Don’t get me wrong. And he has surely proven he can put together a dominant season. But, looking at his career numbers, the team he pitched for, and his numbers last year, I would assume his era will be closer to Pettitte and Hughes, than CC. Meaning, in the Yanks rotation, he would fall somewhere in the middle.

              • steve (different one)

                You are confusing the term “middle of the rotation” starter, and “pitching in the middle of the Yankees’ rotation”.

                AT WORST, he is a #2 starter. if he pitches third in the Yankee rotation, he’s still a #2 starter. if he pitches 4th, he’s still a #2 starter.

                if the Yankees had Halladay, Lee, and CC, would one of them be a “middle of the rotation” starter b/c he pitches third? of course not.

                that’s my point. a “middle of the rotation starter” is a slightly better than average guy. there is no way you can put Greinke in that category.

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

              Nahh…his SAD acted up on him and he had to take a break from baseball.

          • Shaun

            Cliff Lee has a career era of 3.85 I guess he sucks as well. Look Greinke is still young and his career stats right now are often times better than many of the guys we now call the greatest pitchers in the game, currently at the same point in their respective careers.

      • steve (different one)

        And Greinke is better than Hughes. There is no non-fanboy argument otherwise. None.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          And Pettitte too. What the hell, fifth best guy?

          • Mike HC

            Its criminal how underrated Pettitte is. All the talk that the Yanks have CC then nothing is completely ridiculous. Greinke put up solid numbers for a losing team, and had one extraordinary year. Pettitte has been doing the job for championship teams for years now, and continues to do so.

            Hughes is more of a stretch, I will give you that. But with the way he is pitching, it is not that crazy to think he will be better than Greinke.

            • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

              Pettitte doing the job for years for championship teams and Greinke not doing that is a strawman.

              Grienke is significantly younger than Pettitte and was drafted by the Royals, therefore he cannot meet your guidelines for matching up to Pettitte. Greinke is so far and away a better pitcher than Greinke it’s insane.

      • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

        Greinke’s 07, 08′, and 09′ were all excellent, especially his 08′ and 09′ and especially especially his 09′. Yeah he had a bit of a down year this year but this is a 27 year old kid who has shown the ability to be startlingly dominant. I’d totally trade Jesus for him.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          I would only call 2009 excellent.

          2007 he was in the bullpen, and 2008 is 2010 (3.76 xFIP both years).

          • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

            In that case, he was excellent this year too, just unlucky.

            More reason to get this kid.

            • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

              That. He’s young, entering his prime and great. If he has no objections to NY I would totally be on board with getting him.

      • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

        Wait WHAT? A career FIP of 3.59 does not translate to a back end starter.

        2010 dealt with a shit defense plus unlucky LOB numbers that were away above league average. Put him in NY and he’ll be great.

  • Drewnasty98

    The Yankees number 1 target this offseason is to sign Lee. Most likey they will sign him. So that’s CC, Hughes, Lee, & Burnett. I think it all depends on what Andy Pettite does. If he retires (which is getting more and more likely) then Greinke is a great option to replace him. The Yankees offered Montero to the Royals for their closer Soria and they declined. Plus I wouldn’t offer him for Greinke anyways, the worse case senario is that he has an off year in NY. He’s not signed to an A-Rod type deal so trading him the next offseason isn’t out of the question. I would give them Brackman, Joba, Nova and maybe a lesser prospect. Best case senario is that you have 3 aces with a very good #2 in Hughes as your #4 and Burnett who can be lights out as your #5! It would easily the best rotation in all of baseball. Do it Yankees!

    • steve (different one)

      The Yankees offered Montero to the Royals for their closer Soria and they declined.

      Really? There is no proof of this. There was a blurb in a sidebar on ESPN that the Yankees may have “dangled” Montero, but we have no idea, and I’d be shocked if it were true.

      • Drewnasty98

        I believe I saw a post on mlbtraderumors.com about that trade. I believe he was the number one target for the Yankees at the deadline. I know he’s done a great job since coming over but if you think Kerry Wood and his 6 ERA and injury issues were the Yankees top choice you are sadly mistaken.

        • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          It wasn’t true though. What happened was that some reporter (Stark or Heyman) said the Yankees really liked Soria and had made a serious offer. The other one (of Stark and Heyman) saw the “serious offer” report, and decided it must have been Montero. Then the story grew legs but was all speculation.

        • steve (different one)

          I ceratinly believe the Yankees were interested in Soria. Why wouldn’t they be??

          What I am skeptical of is that there was a firm offer of Jesus Montero for Soria. A blurb on MLBtraderumors just isn’t enough proof for me.

          With Cliff Lee, we have confirmation from numerous sources. There was not a single quote from anyone about this.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          So you think that Cashman mind works like this:

          I offered Montero straight up for Halladay, let me offer him straight up for Soria.

  • Mike HC

    I like Greinke, and think he would probably be fine pitching in NY, but I don’t think you can expect him to be an ace. Thus, I don’t think we should give up as much as we were willing to give up for Halladay or Lee, ie, Montero. If we can get Greinke on the assumption he is a two or three, with a somewhat lesser package of prospects, then I am all for it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

    If the package is something like Gardner, Brackman, and then lesser prospects I’d totally be down for it. Gardner’s a great player, but if you can use him to acquire Zack Greinke…you fucking do it, provided you miss out on Cliff Lee.

    • Mike HC

      Thats a package I can get on board with. I don’t think trading Joba is the right move. I think he is a major league ready, above average starter right now, with the possibility of being a lot better than that.

    • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

      This is a package ANY team would offer and if I were KC I would not accept.

      • Mike HC

        Yea, it seems a little light even for Greinke.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

        Ehhh…you’re right it seems a little light, but they already have a lot of 1B/DH types so Montero doesn’t seem like a good fit. However, if it’s something like Gardner, Brackman, Chamberlain, Joesph, and Laird that’s a pretty hard package for Texas to turn down. They get a very good starting CF for cheap, a high ceiling arm that’s probably ready for AAA, an arm that’s ready to step in and take the innings (though to no where near the degree of effectiveness that Zack did) with a chance to do more than that, their second basemen, and a guy who can take over for first or third until Moustakas and Hosmer are ready. But you’re right, it’ll probably take more than that.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          IMO, 1B/DH thing shouldn’t matter for rebuilding teams, take the best players available.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

            They could always trade Jesus afterwards if they think Hosmer is better.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              That’s my thought. Whatever they spin him for would be better than Laird or whatever other C prospect we ship to them instead.

              Quality > Quantity

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

            I agree, but KC has a stacked farm system…they probably won’t want to trade their best asset for a position that they already have a plan for. Since they have so many needs and Greinke’s signed to such a great deal they can probably find a team that’ll deal them a really good package that fills holes for them. Maybe LA will deal Trout and some pitching for Greinke.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              Ok well yeah I agree with that.

  • WWJMD

    Option A: Lee for 5 years at around $20M per
    Option B: Greinke for at least 2 years at 13.5M per plus 2-3 top prospects and some middle tier prospects as well as a contract extension at around 20M.

    Option A, please and thank you.

    • whozat

      What about when it’s Lee for 5 years at 25 per or 6 years at 23 per, which is more accurate?

      • WWJMD

        Because I dont see him getting Sabathia money. But even then I take him. Greinkes next contract(if he remains healthy) will be fairly similar to Lee’s because he is almost as good. But it isn’t worth giving up Montero.

    • steve (different one)

      What about Option C: Both A and B b/c Pettitte retires.

      THAT JUST HAPPENED.

      • WWJMD

        Do we get Carl Crawford too?

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

          Jayson Werth, if were doing crazy talk.

          • WWJMD

            Naw we need speed, cause it kills and all. And even though its crazy talk, I think Gardner is part of a Greinke trade. Gotta replace his speed the same way we replaced Damon’s bat.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

      Lee at that deal is a steal. It’s not happening.

      • WWJMD

        I could be crazy but I think it’s reasonable. It;s right on par with what Doc makes and slightly less then what CC makes. Maybe if they front load the salary he should make more but with his injury history and age, he shouldn’t be getting much more than 20M at age 36/37

        • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

          Oh trust me I think it’s very reasonable. But it’s not happening. If he’s looking for CC money he’s going to get most of it.

          • WWJMD

            Well I don’t think so. Bookmark so in a couple weeks you could tell me how I was wrong because if he has to, Cashmoney will give him cash, money. Not that he should.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

        I’d say something like 5/115 for Lee isn’t really a steal.

        • WWJMD

          Not at all. But we pay to be the best. C.R.E.A.M.

  • deadrody

    I’m not going to say he WILL have trouble, or that I know anything about his disorder, none of it.

    But the fact remains, people with NO disorder have trouble in NY (Whitson, Kenny Rogers, Pavano). Seems to me that taking on a guy that MIGHT be pre-disposed to having problems in NY is FAR too great a risk. It would be a colossal mistake to give up the kind of prospects required to get a former Cy Young winner and then have him tank in NY.

    I say pass.

    • pete

      Pavano’s NY troubles had literally NOTHING to do with SAD

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

        Maybe if he had SAD those troubles wouldn’t have happened.

      • deadrody

        Who said they did ?

        Answer: Nobody

    • Another Bronx Dynasty

      Pavano didn’t have SAD…He had BAD a

  • Matty Ice

    Of course Greinke’s numbers will go up if he comes over to the AL East from the AL Central. I mean, when Kerry Wood came over from the AL Central to the AL East, HE got lit up too. Right? Right???

    • deadrody

      Really ? You are honestly basing your opposition to the FACT that the hitters in the AL East are better than those in the AL Central on half a season of Kerry Wood ?

      You’re kidding, right ?

      • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

        It was sarcasm. The AL Central to East isn’t a huge jump.

        • steve (different one)

          it’s a jump, but it’s much less of a jump if you are jumping TO THE YANKEES.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

    Well if the media knows about Greinke maybe they can stop being ignorant jerkoffs for once.

    He’s one of the few players I’d consider trading Jesus for that will hit the market anyways. Take Greinke and put him in a positive defensive environment and his bad luck will likely escape him too. If the deal is Jesus + Betances which amazingly the offer Royals fans were giving out I may do it.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      I actually think the media would try harder to “break” him just because they are ignorant jerkoffs.

    • Matty Ice

      Nope. Not even remotely kidding. Of course the hitters in the AL East are better. How about the fact that he might be energized playing, you know, not in Kansas City? Or playing for the Yankees with their offense behind him?

      Haters gonna hate, I guess.

      • deadrody

        Haters gonna hate ? What are you 6 ?

        If you want to romanticize about some fantasyland where players magically do better in a tougher league, be my guest. If they idea weren’t so completely laughable, I would look for someone that had already done this analysis. But sadly, it IS laughable and not worth my time.

        • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

          Let’s stop acting central teams never play against the east teams.

          Greinke has destroyed top tiered teams of the AL East before.

          • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

            If you look at his splits this year, his worst ERAs came against: CWS, CLE, DET, MIN

            • deadrody

              1) nobody is pretending that central teams don’t play teams in the east. They do. Just not as many, which is a significant factor. Division teams play 2.5x more than outside their division.

              2) his numbers are worse against the AL Central because of familiarity. An issue he would still suffer from in the AL East.

    • deadrody

      Please explain “positive defensive environment” as it relates to NY.

      • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

        As in the Yankees have a much better defensive team than the Royals

      • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

        They managed to put a positive UZR for the first time in years. That’s positive to me.

        Kansas City has a -44 UZR rating. That sucks.

        • deadrody

          I don’t think I would go that far. The Yankee defense is marginally better now with Gardner and Granderson in LF and CF, but Tex is the only other average or above defender on the team, and even with Tex you have to rely on the eye test because UZR and other stats say even he isn’t that good. Brett Gardner carried this team as far as UZR. Take him off the team and the Yankees are average at best. Add to that the fact that you take him out of a pitchers park and put him in a hitters park and it is highly unlikely his “bad luck” goes away.

          Bruce Chen, for instance, pitched in the exact same park, in front of the exact same defense and he had “good luck”. The fact is, Greinke’s career BABIP is .315. And his BABIP over the last five years is remarkably consistent – .318, .316, .318, .313, .314.

          I’ll agree KC’s defense has been pretty bad the last couple years, but I don’t think the Yankee defense is any major upgrade.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

            Swish is definitely an average defender. It’s only a -1 UZR but it’s certainly not Sheffield esque.

            Cano has a positive UZR mostly due to his arm but he prevents runs. Jeter will likely stay below average and we don’t know about A-Rod until that hip is fully healed. But the team has certainly came a long way from being a historical nightmare to above average. It’s certainly better than Kansas City so if Greinke is in NY his ERA shouldn’t be that high as it was in 2010.

          • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

            but Tex is the only other average or above defender on the team,

            Seriously? Do you know who Robinson Cano is?

            • deadrody

              Good lord guys. First of all, I’m not the one that cited UZR. But if you want to use it, so will I.

              Cano in 2010: -0.6 UZR
              Tex in 2010: -2.9 UZR

              Fine, I’ll give you Cano as average. Wow.

              I’m just saying the Yankee defense is no major upgrade over KC. Good ? Yes. Significantly better ? No.

              AND a solid majority of the starting defense will be another year older next year, further detracting from their defense – Arod, Jeter, Swish, Tex, Posada, and even Granderson will all likely be noticeably worse. Thats not iron clad, but every one of those guys will be 30 or older. AND it is fairly likely the best defensive player on the team – Gardner – would be dealt for Greinke especially considering the KC defense, Gardner’s value, and that he is cost controlled for years to come.

      • Guest

        +12 Team UZR. The Yankees are good at defense. The Royals weere atrocious at it. Ergo, he should put up better numbers if he is pitching in front of a better defense.

        • deadrody

          Brett Gardner is exceptionally good at defense (22.3 UZR). The rest of the team, eh, not so much. At least if you are going to base it on UZR. Granderson is good. Nobody else in the starting lineup is above average (again, per UZR, the metric being cited here).

    • Guest

      Just Jesus and Betances? For Greinke.

      I’d do it. Definitely. Can’t imagine that the Royals would. If they shop him around, they’d get one of the best packages in recent memory.

      He just turned 27. 2-7. Whoever gets him will have him for the entirety of his prime.

      Again, as I stated above, there are significant risks anytime you trade one of the best prospects in the game for someone who is not sure if they will do well in your city.

      But the upside is so great that if the whole package is Betances and Montero, you drive those two the nearest airport and get them on the next flight to KC.

      • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

        Yup. If it’s just those two it’ll be worth it IMO. Jesus will rake and it’ll suck losing him but Greinke can definitely rack up some value.

        Betances is still a lottery ticket. He’s come a long way but still hard to project. But Kansas City will likely demand the world as they should and I’ll probably pass on that with Lee on the FA market.

  • Risto

    Yankees should definitely make a play for Greinke. How often are 27-year-old aces on the trading block? Basically, the Yankees could use the next two years as a trial run to see if he’s worth committing to long-term.

  • Pharryn

    pass on the player – are you all too young to remember Ed Whitson? Lee or NO ONE!!! We’d just keep Andy Pettitte, and build from within.

  • Pharryn

    Oh, and how does NYY passing on Santana look now? 27 year old pitchers for trades AND to get big $? Pass.

  • BrianM

    If Kansas are ready to let some of their top guys go for prospects I say we re-open the Soria discussions. He is pretty cheap for the next 2 years then has 2 club options. Could mesh nicely with a 2 year deal for Rivera.

    I’d open discussions with Joba and Noesi. Maybe add Adams or Nunez to get it done.