Nov
24

A Yankee contract negotiation from the past

By

I miss Moose (Julie Jacobson/AP)

Baseball is not your typical business. Employees, i.e. players, cannot expect a raise every year. They can for a certain period, but at some point their skills begin to decline. At that point teams are willing to pay them less and less, and for good reason. Understandably, players try to fend off this notion for as long as possible. Not only does it mean less money for them, but it’s an admission that they’re getting older and won’t be able to do the things they once did. No one wants to admit that to themselves.

Some players take this better than others. As we saw last year, Johnny Damon didn’t take it well at all. He turned down an offer from the Yankees because it constituted a pay cut. This winter we’re seeing Derek Jeter desiring to remain at his $20 million salary even though his production no longer justifies it. Yet I can remember one player who took a pay cut graciously. That happened in the winter after the 2006 season, and the player was Mike Mussina.

In the winter following the Yankees’ third straight World Series victory, the market was rife with free agents. Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, and Mike Mussina highlighted the class. The Yankees went with the pitcher, signing Mussina to a six-year, $88.5 million contract. In the deal’s final two seasons, plus the 2007 option season, Mussina earned $17 million. But by the end of the 2006, even though he had pitched very well during that season, he realized that he wasn’t going to make $17 million again. So he took a pay cut.

The deal went pretty smoothly from what I can remember. Mussina signed for two years and $23 million — a $1 million signing bonus and $11 million in each of the two seasons. That represented a nearly 55 percent pay cut from his 2006 salary, and a 34 percent pay cut from the average annual value of his previous contract. Yet he took it with grace. In fact, the only stipulation on it seemed reasonable: he demanded to make more than Carl Pavano. Done and done, said Cashman.

In some way, I can see a parallel for Derek Jeter. In one way, he’s in a unique situation and therefore can’t really compare himself to someone else. In another way, I can’t really blame him for wanting more than A.J. Burnett. That’s why a three-year, $50 million contract makes sense. That not only puts Jeter’s salary a tick above Burnett’s, but it also means their contracts expire at the same time. I can even see the Yanks being generous and offering an option year, so that Jeter might stay with the team longer — and so that he makes more from the Yankees in 2014 than Burnett does.

(If the Yankees wanted to get really generous they could go three years, $56.7 million, which would replicate the average annual value of Jeter’s previous contract.)

Yet it’s clear that Jeter is not being as honest with himself about his position as was Mussina. That’s his right, I suppose. Rare is the player in Mussina’s mold. Still, I can’t help but wish Jeter would see things in the same way as his former teammate. If that were the case, he’d already have a contract by this point.

Categories : Musings

87 Comments»

  1. Pasqua says:

    So far, the most surprising thing about the Jeter situation – to me, at least – is the notion that he overestimates his own value. I always assumed that Jeter would have a very clear, rational perspective when his career started winding down. That he may not is somewhat disheartening, if only because he has been so brilliant at avoiding any kind of character-damaging behavior in the past.

    He has a right to ask for anything, of course, but that the negotiation has evolved (already) into a pissing contest makes the whole thing feel somehow dirty.

    • Mike Myers says:

      At the same time he has been the king of NY for a long time. If everyone tells you that you are the greatest thing ever, for 15 years, you will believe it.

      Also, He may be fine with the contract….he hasnt said otherwise, only his agent has. and we all know not to trust an agent.

      jeter will be back. we need him and he needs us.

      • Pasqua says:

        Agreed on all points, except on the notion that Jeter is fine with the contract. That his agent has publically said he is “baffled” is pretty good evidence that Jeter is too. If he wasn’t, I’m sure the agent would be keeping his mouth shut.

      • LarryM.,Fl. says:

        I agree with your thougts on “the king of NY.” But, “He may be fine with the contract.” “I don’t.” I believe Jeter has the visceral strength to improve upon last season down year. The Yankees who are paying his contract do not see it this way. I for one believe he could very well play big at the plate if his games played are diminished by 20 or so.

        A contract of 3 years with an option with a 10 million fourth year may do. The other three years would equal his average 19 million with a descending scale 22, 20 and 15. This way Jeter has a potential for a fourth and 67 million more in his war chess. I know these athletes live a much different lifestyle but when is enough , enough.

        Longtime Yankee fan who adored the Mick and Yogi. Can you imagine winning the Triple Crown and being offered a paycut because the team did not win the WS. I realize the times are different but you get my point.

      • Poopy Pants says:

        Jeter would have to be really really stupid to ‘be fine with the contract’ and still let his agent make him look like a complete asshole all week.

    • Nostra damn us says:

      Jeter has an off year, coming right after a great, near-MVP, championship season, and he’s somehow living in the clouds to think he might still be good?!

      • Pasqua says:

        You’re completely misconstruing my point. I’m not saying he shouldn’t think he’s good, I’m saying he shouldn’t think he deserves the contract he would have gotten ten years ago. This offer makes him the highest paid SS at age 36. That’s a very generous contract. To expect more strikes me as offbase.

    • Yankeescribe says:

      Jeter, rightly or wrongly, probably believes last season was an aberation and he is likely to have numbers closer to his career averages next season. I don’t think he sees last year as the beginning of his decline from his career highs.

      If Jeter doesn’t feel any older or less capable physically, I can’t blame him for believing he will bounce back next season.

      • Pasqua says:

        Regardless of what he believes about himself, the fact is he’s not getting younger and, therefore, he’s likely not getting better. That’s the Yankees position, and it is reasonable.

        What’s more, the argument from Jeter’s camp and supporters ignores the fact that the contract offer is extremely generous. It’s probably 2x his market value, and keeps him highly paid until he’s nearly 40. Let’s not pretend that they’re screwing him over.

  2. J.R. says:

    I think a difference between Mussina vs. Pavano and Jeter vs. Burnett, is that Mussina truly disliked Pavano. I read “Living on the Black” (awesome book) and Mussina made multiple public criticisms of Pavano and after he retired continued to make them.

    While we don’t have the insight into Jeter’s thoughts on Burnett that we did on Mussina’s, I think his dislike is nowhere near Mussina’s.

    • J.R. says:

      I guess my point is, Mussina used Pavano as a benchmark because he refused to make less than him as a person, whereas Jeter is using Burnett as a benchmark because that is the dollar value he thinks he deserves. Just my guess though.

      • Kiersten says:

        I don’t know, I think it was more that Pavano was getting paid to sit on his ass with a broken fingernail and Moose felt he deserved more than that considering he was the best pitcher on the team.

    • Yankeescribe says:

      Mussina also criticized Joe Torre for throwing his own players under the bus…

  3. Adam says:

    Great article and excellent analogy to a recent Yankee great who went about things the right way in his decline phase. I’ve always been a big Jeter fan, but I think one of the qualities that have made him a great player, his unbridled confidence, is also his biggest flaw. On the field to be the best you have to know you’re the best, and Jeter has clearly always handled himself that way without ever making it seem unseemly or inappropriate, but now it has reared its ugly head. I’ll bet anything that in Jeter’s mind his last season is an abberation, and I’m sure he looks at his gold glove as evidence that he’s a great all-around player, but any sane fan who knows the numbers and sees him play on a regular basis knows that Jeter’s best days are behind him. Jeter may not want to admit it to himself and I’m sure he wants to fancy himself as an elite player still, but he’s not and paying him like he is one is frankly stupid and ill-advised because it will only perpetuate the problem with Jeter. I’m sure it’s not easy for any athlete who’s been universally lauded, but the end is coming soon for Derek and he needs to realize this isn’t 1999 anymore.

    • J.R. says:

      A player can be confident in his abilities without being overly so. The difference that needs to be made is whether Jeter is being confident or is suffering from hubris.

  4. SNS says:

    I can’t see the comparison with Mussina because Mussina was clearly a guy whose value was solely tied to what he did on the field. I know that should be the only measure but the Yankees have demonstrated that its not. Mussina was a free agent signing who never won a World Series, was never the greatest teammate in the world and was never the centerpiece of the franchise. Not to mention Mussina talent level at the time of resigning was essentially a middle of the rotation starter, which is valuable but ultimately replaceable. Derek Jeter on the other hand is their starting shortstop and there is no alternative. The parallel is simple its Jorge and Alex from a couple of years ago.

    I have to say, you cannot blame Jeter until all of the facts are fleshed out. He does have a right to try and negotiate and while everyone keeps harping on his lack of leverage, he does have a couple of things (i) the Yankees need him short term because there are no obvious better alternatives; and (ii) his value to the franchise in the intangible sense. You can attribute whatever value to either one but those are currently his two chips. And what I would say in defense of Jeter and his agent is that the Yankees do not operate within the confines of the market with other free agents and with past players who reach free agency, so why have they decided to it with him. It is hypocritical for them to stand on such a high horse and while they are correct in that hell never get a better offer from another team, he could just decide to leave out of spite and take less on the basis that a team like Tampa or San Francisco would pay what they deem as top dollar to have him (even if its well below $10M a year) but at least they have valued him according to his stature within the sport in accordance with their own market restraints. I find this whole thing bizarre because I do not see the benefit for the Yankees in any sense of publicly denigrating him by daring him to go somewhere else. I don’t know how that helps Jeter sign.

    • J.R. says:

      If Jeter signs a 3 year deal, I think you will value the stance the Yankees are taking in the 3rd year of that deal. Outside of Omar Vizquel (defense only), I can’t think of any shortstop over 35 much less 40.

    • Kiko Jones says:

      First of all, it was because of the intangibles that Jeter was offered $15m per, which is likely double the worth of a comparable 36 year old SS with his numbers. Second, if Jeter leaves the Yankees out of spite and for less money—after the Yankees offered him more than he was worth—whose fault is that? Worse, Jeter would look both petty and stupid. How ’bout we look at this objectively and not let the hero worship get in the way?

      • SNS says:

        You guys are missing my point. I’m not arguing the Yankees offer isn’t fair or that the Yankees are not justified in their stance. My point is that I can understand why Jeter and his representatives would have an issue with this stance because the Yankees haven’t been consistent in their approach. It does seems arbitrary that they would decide to take this approach with him but they didnt seem to have an issue with Alex or Jorge three years ago.

        And if Jeter decided to do that I wouldn’t fault him for that because I would understand why he felt he needed to move on. The question I think Jeter would have is the Yankees value me at $15M per year, with a cap of 3 years on the basis that I am older and my performance might decline. However, they value AJ Burnett at $18 a year and when they signed him he was 31 years old, had a very inconsistent track record and had a sketchy injury history. How did they project that investment to be appropriate? When they resigned Alex, who elected to test free agency and found nothing close to what his previous contract was for, the Yankees (even it was Hank) decided to give him the largest contract in the history of the sport at age 32 for a ten year term. Regardless of what Arod does that was a mistake because in the end, you could have had Arod at a much lower price, rather than actually giving him a raise.

        Jeter is human and he is entitled to be offended by this because the Yankees may have learned from their mistake with Arod but its coming at his expense. I understand why the Yankees are doing what they are doing, I just dont understand the method they have employed in negotiating this, since I think the ultimate goal should be to resign him.

        Listen I am fan and yes ultimately what I do care about is wins on the field but what I think what internet’s constant analysis of everything in baseball has done is taken some of the joy out of everything. I want to see him get 3000 hits and I want to see him retire a Yankee. I dont want to hear Brian Cashman and Randy Levine proclaim their obligation to be fiscally responsible, especially with a team that has a payroll that is substantially larger than any other team in the sport. I dont sign those checks and in the end I make no apologies for the Yankees spending to anyone. I agree with Derek that the line shouldn’t be drawn at his doorstep.

        Its not going to change the fact that I root for the laundry, but we all dealt with long term spending more than $100M on Damaso Marte, Kei Igawa, Javier Vazquez, Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano. If we end up overpaying Jeter by $50M, is that the biggest sin this organization has committed in the last decade?

        • Kiko Jones says:

          SNS, I hear where you’re coming from loud and clear. Yes, you are correct in pointing out how inconsistent the Yankees have been in previous negotiations and how Jeter is entitled to feeling slighted. And I have rarely, if ever, taken the side of a team over that of a player.

          But…

          a) Those deals you mention were under The Boss’ reign (this is Hank and Hal’s team now, particularly the latter, and they seem to be a tad more fiscally conservative than the old man);

          and

          b) The line isn’t being drawn at Jeter’s doorstep. In other words, they’ve made an exception because he’s “Derek Jeter” and offered him way more than the $8-10m he’s actually worth. What you’re advocating is for an open checkbook policy.

          Perhaps he feels like the guy to whom the once-easy chick says “Sorry I don’t do that anymore” but he’d be off the mark. I want to see Jeter hit 3,000 and retire in a Yankee uniform but I want the Yankees to put a winning team on the field, as well. And Jeter doesn’t seem to be quite the team player right now, IMHO.

          In the end, he can bitch and moan all he wants but 3 yr/$45m is a fair deal—maybe even 3 yr/$50m—if Jeter thinks he should get 5-6 yrs at $20m per as a 36 year old SS in decline, than he’s a lot more petty and egotistical than he lets on.

          I bet Bernie would’ve killed for a deal. Any deal.

          • SNS says:

            I agree Jeter is being selfish, but how many players are selfless during free agent negotiations? I think he is entitled to be selfish at this stage. And I have to point out, Jorge and Alex were post George and while there were others involved in those negotiations, it was still the Yankees. And again the 3 years $45M is overpaying him within the context of MLB. However, within the context of the Yankees, that is probably a little low considering his value to the team, even if he is declining, especially considering the needs they have.

            I can’t knock these guys for their egos, because their egos are part of the reason they are so successful. And I know when it comes to my salary and livelihood the one thing I look from my employer is for consistency and sometimes its not about pride but about how you are treated. Its difficult to understand within the scope of a baseball player because we are discussing millions of dollars. But I know that even if I were being paid fairly by my employer by the standards of the industry, I would still be offended if I were being underpaid within the standards of my firm. And something like that could lead me to another employer, even if I took a financial sacrifice because pride does matter in life.

        • Los says:

          If there are players that had a better year(s) and made less the Yankees can argue the opposite. I do not think the Yankees making mistakes should be an arguement the should do it again. There was no where to turn when they signed Burnett, however they needed a pitcher in the worse way and it turned into a championship in 2009. They do not need more than 3 years of a 37 – 40 shortstop. Swisher was much more productive (every Yankee start was for that matter than Jeter so should he make less than them? I do not want to hear about past championships either, he was paid 189mil for that and his team only one once since signing that contract (thanks to A-Rod, not Jeter.) Talking about A-Rod, I do not want to hear comparisions either because his worse years are better than Jeter’s best years; case in point – last year was a bad year and he still was second/third in MLB in RBIs and also had 30 homers.

          Yankees arguement is factual and Jeter’s is on emotion.

  5. Ed says:

    I always loved Moose’s “I should make more than Pavano” stance. How could Cashman possibly argue with that? Pavano almost never played, and Moose fully believed he faked the injuries. Moose was an above average player who never got hurt.

    • Slugger27 says:

      exactly. moose was perfectly reasonable to ask for more than pavano. jorge was aware damon wanted to freakin retire in 2007, and so after that year he felt he should make more. again, perfectly reasonable.

      if jeter feels he should make more than burnett on principle, that’s reasonable. i’m not sure it’s gonna happen, but it’s a perfectly reasonable stance to have.

  6. Steve H says:

    So Mussina, coming off a good year took a big pay cut in a free agent year when the following deals happened:

    Zito 7/$126
    Meche 5/$55
    Marquis 3/$21
    Batista 3/$25
    Padilla 3/$33.75
    Lilly 4/$40
    Suppan 4/$42
    Baez 3/$19

    In that market (and that’s just starting pitchers other than Baez), Mussina took a short term deal for a big paycut without much fanfare.

    • J.R. says:

      He did take a pay cut from the “ace” contract that he signed originally with the Yankees. But his AAV of $11.5 is right in line or above everyone on that list except Zito, which is regarded as one of the worst contracts in baseball.

      I think Mussina looked at what was truly fair market value.

      • Steve H says:

        Mussina was better than all of them though. If Padilla got 3/$33, Moose’s market was greater than 2/$23. Even Pettitte got 1/$16.

        • J.R. says:

          Clearly I’m not going to argue that Padilla was worth more than Padilla, but Mussina was 9 years older and entering an age where pitchers can deteriorate very quickly.

          • Steve H says:

            Agree with that. So let’s say 2/$23 was Mussina’s market rate, he still took it without much pissing and moaning and resigned. Jeter was offered well above market rate and his side is “baffled” by it. I can see Mussina’s deal as market rate or below, Jeter’s offer is definitely above.

        • Slugger27 says:

          u gotta take age into account though.

          still, it does seem moose couldve gotten more

  7. Matt DiBari says:

    All this accomplished was making me want Mussina back.

    Better than someone like Garland

  8. I am not the droids you're looking for says:

    I commented in one of the prior 2,563 posts on Jeter that I think $57mm/3 years is where this gets done, with perhaps a $5mm contribution to Jeter’s foundation thrown in (deductible for the Yanks, and, doesn’t get counted as payroll). I could see another $5mm for his 3000th hit, and perhaps a 4th year option at the same AAV with say a $3mm buyout. But no Maas than that.

  9. Slugger27 says:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....nt-1265160

    as u can see, ive thought this for a while. players have egos about their salaries compared to others, and jeter is no different. the final offer will be somewhere between 3/51 and 3/57, and i think the yanks would be fine with that

  10. YankFanDave says:

    I was with you until the comparison between Mussina-to-Pavano salary demand and Jeter-to-Burnett salary demand. The two just don’t equate. Pitcher to pitcher vs. position-player to pitcher; healthy player to injured played vs. healthy player to healthy player; very productive year to no production year vs. worst year as Yankee to worst year as Yankee. Throw in the completely different market situations and I find myself, well baffled. And even though Mussina and Jeter are about the same age when negotiating their last contract, you can’t compare a late-30′s pitcher to a late-30′s SS.

    However, if your overall point was that Jeter needs to show some humility, I agree.

    • Slugger27 says:

      The two just don’t equate. Pitcher to pitcher vs. position-player to pitcher; healthy player to injured played vs. healthy player to healthy player; very productive year to no production year vs. worst year as Yankee to worst year as Yankee.

      you’re right, logically they probably don’t equate. but in jeter’s mind, i’m sure they DO equate. just like moose said about pavano and jorge about damon. “you mean aj is more important to this team than i am?! fuck that”

      ya, jeter and burnett as players are apples and oranges, but when egos are involved, im not sure that matters. i think jeter will take it personally if he’s not paid more than burnett, and its hard to blame him, even if the comparison is a faulty one to begin with.

      • YankFanDave says:

        That part that baffles me isn’t how Jeter (or hos ego) could see the logic in the comparison but rather that JP states “I can see a parallel for Derek Jeter…I can’t really blame him for wanting more than A.J. Burnett.”

        As an objective observer the comparison just doesn’t hold water.

        • Slugger27 says:

          the parallel isn’t between comparing the players, the parallel is between the players and their mindsets.

          moose felt he should be compensated more than pavano because of how pathetic pavano was at the time. jeter would want to be paid more than burnett for the same reasons. it’s not about what position they play, or their injury history, or anything like that. it’s about one player feeling he’s worth more to the franchise than the other; that’s the parallel.

  11. Baseball Guy says:

    (The beginning part of this idea I wrote on Lohud earlier…but have been thinking of it more and more…)

    When players believe they will always be great and are not honest with themselves when their skills begin to erode and they put their ego before the needs of the team, they tarnigh – and sometimes destroy their legacy.

    Four years ago the name Brett Favre was like talking about a God. Iron Man of football. Winner. He was the Green Bay Packers.

    Four years later, because of greed, not being honest with his own declining skills, believing the fluke great year was going to be the norm in spite of recnet years that showed he was declining, Brett Favre alientated Green Bay, went to New York (Jersey), alienated this city, went to Minnesota – and has humiliated himself.

    Four years ago Brett Favre had a Green Bay legacy every bit what Jeter’s New York legacy is – and can still be – IF HE DOES NOT LET GREED RUIN IT. Jeter should look in Favre’s direction and see what can happen.

    Four years ago, Brett Favre owned Green Bay. He could have had anything he desired in that city.

    Today, I’ll bet he couldn’t even get a cup of coffee.

    This Jeter situation is beginning to remind me of the Joe Torre situation. Torre got greedy – didn’t think his recent record should be taken into consideration. Turned down a contact that would make him the highest paid manager in baseball because it was a pay cut and damaged his new York legacy.

    Jeter, I think, likes to think of himself as this generation’s DiMaggio.

    Mr. Yankee.

    Jeter should remember something about DiMaggio. After the 1951 season, the Yankees offered DiMaggio a $100,000 contract to play one more year. They were willing to overpay for a declining great for one more year. (Jeter – take note – 3/$45 million is over paying in dollars and years by recent performance and comparisons by position).

    Rather than take the money, DiMaggio retired because he did not want to continue to play at a level that was below his standards.

    Jeter should take note. He should not retire, not yet, but he should be grateful for the large amounts of money he was paid, and understand that it’s time for him to take a paycut and put the needs of the team above his own ego.

    Jeter always presented himself as the anti-A-Rod (which probably isn’t fair to A-Rod) – more about team than money. He risks throwing that legacy away now and he looks like all he is about is the money.

    It’s also easy to say, “It’s not about the money” when you are have the second highest salary in MLB as Jeter had.

    I fear the way this is playing out for Jeter’s legacy as a Yankee.

    People may be seeing the real Derek Jeter and realizing he’s not that different from the other grredy athletes. His reputation may be unwarranted.

    And that’s a shame.

    Then again, if Jeter does the right thing and signs… he again has the moral high ground (and if, as some say, he thinks he can still play at a high level in three years, and he does (which I don’t think anyone believes will happen) I’m sure the Yankees will give him another generous contract at that time…)

  12. David in Cal says:

    I think the Yank do have a better short-term alternative: Use the Jeter money to sign Jason Werth, giving the Yanks 4 very good outfielders. Let Pena and Nunez share SS, using the extra outfielder to pinch hit for one of them at a key AB. Let Werth start in place of Granderson when the other team is using a leftie SP.

    I believe that combination would provide considerably more offense than signing Jeter but not Werth.

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      or sign Crawford and put Swish at everyday DH (by moving Gardy to right) and have Posada or Montero pinch hit for the SS if need be in the late innings. 2 guys with 47 SB’s last year in the starting outfield and Crawford can hit 20 HR’s. I prefer him to Werth.

  13. Jorge says:

    I hate sports agents. I really do. Almost as much as I hate sportswriters (but not sports bloggers.)

    I also hate people forgetting how the negotiations on Mo and Posada’s last contracts weren’t as squeakly clean either. Reputations were not tarnished there, from what I can tell.

    I would, for once, love to hear from the player and not the bean counters.

  14. Nostra damn us says:

    At least finally somebody is comparing apples to apples, i.e., Yankees’ player deals as opposed to friggin Chase Utley or even more irrelevant players on non-Yankee teams. This post is more useful than most of the hot air being expended for that reason, however, it needs to be pointed out that Jeter’s STILL gonna be making a fair amount less than A-Rod, who has several years left on his contract, and we know Jeter is a highly competitive dude. It’s gotta rankle him that HE’s never on the DL or took steroids or is the subject of unsavory tabloid stories, while HE’s also a hall-of-famer lock with historic numbers, yet he hasta have his impending decrepitude discussed publicly by pencil-necks like Cashman? And he’s supposed to be GRATEFUL to earn substantially less than some teammates?!

    • Mike HC says:

      Well said man all around. I think you are right on target as far as Jeter is concerned.

    • CanoFTW says:

      he also hits 10-15 hr’s a year…

      • Mike HC says:

        We know the teams stance, but I think this post does a nice job of summing up how Jeter, at least partially, probably feels about the situation. Plus, Jeter is basically equivalent to the greatest legends of Yankee history. There is still a good chance he will be productive and valuable for the next 4 years or so, maybe more. I can see how he thinks all that is reason enough to pay premium value for him. Just looking at things from his side.

    • whozat says:

      Well, ARod contributes more to the team winning baseball games then Jeter does…so there’s that. Even with his time on the DL.

    • HeavyHitter says:

      Yeah, it’s gotta rankle Jeter that A-Rod is a better player than him and always has been. And it’s gotta be tough to live on $15 mil. per year. Too bad. So sad. It’s about time he got used to the idea that A-Rod has had a far better career. Everyone is presumably aware that A-Rod should have been the Yankee shortstop when he came over from Texas but Jeter’s ego would not allow it. The evidence of Jeter’s inflated ego has been there; you just didn’t want to see it.

  15. Steve H says:

    The biggest flaw in the “deserves more money than Burnett” argument is the market. The Braves offered Burnett 5 years and $80 million. The Yankees gave him 5/$82.5. If Jeter wants to go get his best legitimate offer on the open market and come back to the Yankees and ask for $500k per year more than that, I think we’ll all be happy.

    • Slugger27 says:

      i think it’s more the fact that AT THE TIME, they’re not/werent living up to their contracts. if pavano came in and dominated, i dont think moose wouldve made a fuss over it. if burnett had a 125 era+ as a yankee, i dont think jeter would make a fuss over it (in defense, he hasn’t that we know of). but i could certainly see the parallel in moose thinking he’s worth more to the franchise than pavano at the time of the negotiation to jeter thining he’s worth more to the franchise than burnett now.

      • Steve H says:

        I think the difference is that Moose could have gotten more than Pavano from another team. There’s no way Jeter gets more than Burnett from another team. Moose’s stance could have been, in essence, “I’m getting more than Pavano, I want that to happen here, but if not I can get it elsewhere.” Jeter’s hypothetically would be “I want more than Burnett because I think I deserve it, whether or not any of the 30 teams believe so.”

        • Slugger27 says:

          you’re right. i’m not saying the yankees should cave, i’m just saying i can understand why jeter would feel this way (if he indeed does; we don’t know). moose had more leverage than jeter has now, so the yankees are in a better position to stand their ground. i’m just saying jeter wanting more money than aj is a perfectly reasonable stance.

          • Mike HC says:

            Let me start by saying I obviously have no idea what is going on with these negotiations, but it seems that Jeter has not asked the Yanks to up the aav and keep the three years. It seems like Jeter’s side is sticking with the 5-6 year thing. I would think if Jeter came to the Yanks and said I accept I am only getting three years, but to tack on some more $, the Yanks would agree. I would hope so at least.

  16. Hughesus Christo says:

    For the love of Mo, stop misquoting “Baffled”

    • Slugger27 says:

      dont be a douche. i think the quote was “their strategy is baffling” … that essentially means he’s baffled. i dont think even casey close would disagree with how his quote is being handled.

  17. Mike HC says:

    I think the Yanks might think about hiring you for their PR department and firing whoever they have in there now. This would be a far more diplomatic approach rather than the chip on the shoulder, we don’t owe him shit attitude.

    • aldot says:

      Technically their attitude “we don’t owe him shit” is correct. They don’t owe him. He was a contract employee. His contract is up. Therefore they don’t owe him anything.

      If it continues like this, at some point I think he’ll have to speak up, ala Arod when he “fired” Boras and dealt directly on his own behalf.

      While the Yankees may not be using a very diplomatic approach by dealing with Jeter/Close through press leaks, it’s entirely possible they’re trying to convey to him that as iconic as he is, the Yankees are even more iconic and powerful, and they’ll pay him more than what he’s worth but there’s a limit.

      • Mike HC says:

        I think you are definitely right on target. The Yanks are clearly trying to knock him down a notch or two and taking a hardline approach. I would just have personally done it a little differently. Or at least as a fan, hoped it would be more diplomatic. The Yanks are probably right though. It is a business. Fuck personal relations?

        • whozat says:

          See, my understanding is that the Yankees WERE handling it diplomatically, directly with Close. They had at least one round of offer/counteroffer…and then Close comes out with the “baffling” statement. At that point, I think they decided that they couldn’t let him define the discussion, so they had to go to the press.

          • Mike HC says:

            I’m pretty sure articles about the Yanks taking a hardline approach and all the rumors on what was being offered was from the Yanks side first. But that is really beside the point. Once it gets to the press, the gloves often come off.

        • Jorge says:

          ….or perhaps all is fair in love and contract negotiations. Maybe it’s our feelings, as observers of second or third-hand information, that are currently hurt more than the player or team’s.

          What are the parts of your jobs that may seem ugly to others, but you accept as just being part of how things go? I have to assess suicidality and child abuse often.

          • Mike HC says:

            Yea, I get that. That is why I added in the post, “Or at least as a fan, hoped it would be more diplomatic.”

            • Mike HC says:

              Not sure where you were going with that suicide or child abuse thing though.

              • Jorge says:

                Sorry….with the suicide thing, what I meant was that someone else looks at and thinks “oh, how horrible.” I know that part of job involves dealing with situations like that and am ready for it.

                While I’m not in Derek Jeter’s, or Brian Cashman’s mind, I could imagine what we read as some nasty back-and-forth is seen by them as “well, here we go through the muck again.”

                This is all very sabremetric talk, as you can see. :)

                • Mike HC says:

                  I got you now. You know things are getting bad though when you can successfully compare a suicide and child abuse with these contract negotiations. ha. That is what I would have been trying to avoid from the Yankee PR standpoint. But I get what you saying now.

  18. Monteroisdinero says:

    So if all goes according to common wisdom and Jeter eventually signs for 16-18 million for 3-4 years, when do we discuss the batting order issues?

    Gardner leading off and Carl Crawford batting second.

    Who needs Jeter?

    • MikeD says:

      If Carl Crawford is leading off, odds are high thta Gardner is batting lead off for…..some team not named the Yankees.

      • Mike HC says:

        I think Swisher would have at least as good a chance of getting moved as Gardner if we bring Crawford on. But it does not seem like we want Crawford, especially if we get Lee, so it is probably moot.

        • MikeD says:

          The advantage of having Crawford and Gardner is it instantly rebuilds the front of the Yankee line-up, if Jeter doesn’t rebound in 2011.

          If we were to keep Gardner, it might make more sense to move Granderson. Gardner could slip into CF, improving our defense (and I’m not saying Granderson wasn’t good in CF, because he was very good, but Gardner has even more range), Crawford takes over in left, and Swish stays in right.

          The reason I think under this scenario they’d keep Swish is he’s a switch hitter, so that’s a positive, especially if we were to add Crawford’s lefty bat. If we moved Swisher, then we’d have Crawford, Granderson and Gardner, all lefties. I’m not sure who would play right in this team, probably Granderson. The Crawford, Grandy, Gardy OF would certainly be the strongest Yankee defensive unit in a long time (maybe ever for the Yanks), but I’d think they’d want to hold onto Swish since he’ll provide hitting balance.

          Yet, as you mentioned, it’s all probably moot.

          • Mike HC says:

            All good points. I think Swisher’s increasingly high salary would be a good reason to trade him in order to offset some of the Crawford money. But trading Granderson would also do that. I just think Granderson is more of a keeper than Swisher, but that is just in my head, and they may be looked upon as equallly movable by the front office.

    • Slugger27 says:

      the batting order issue should be addressed regardless of what he signs for. whether he takes the 3/45 or gets 3/57 or even gets the 4th year he wants, it should be understood he’s not the everyday leadoff hitter anymore

      • MikeD says:

        …eventually. No reason he won’t go into 2011 as the lead-off hitter. He’ll have to put up another 2010 season to lose the lead-off spot. Yet, eventually he will have to move.

    • Yo Quiero Montero (formerly LarryF) says:

      but what about DHing Swish everyday and then having the speedy OF as well with Crawford? I think this makes more sense than signing Jeter even though this is cold and unsentimental.

      Sorry DJ

      • Mike HC says:

        That takes Jorge or Montero out of the line up everyday though, so it would kind of be counter productive. Unless the Yanks want to heavily rest all six of those guys or bench one of them, but that would be ridiculous.

  19. JCK says:

    Last week in a comment I suggest 4/63 for Jeter. First three years at 17m per, fourth year mutual option at 12m. Maybe throw in some performance and milestone incentives (3,000th hit, etc.).

    I still think that sounds right.

  20. Mister D says:

    Jeter’s a lot like Mussina. Moose just wanted to be paid more than Pavano, and Jeter just wants to be paid more than A-Rod.

  21. Kyle says:

    If we re-sign Jeter do we have to swallow more pride to keep him leading off?

  22. cashmanbashman says:

    First and foremost I will always root for the team and not the player. I love Jeter the same as any Yankee fan. Jeter always said he put winning above all else. If that were true he would not be asking for above market money that could go to bolster bullpens, strenghthen benches, and solidify the staff in years to come. The all mighty buck is more important then the World series trophy to a man far from eating out of a dumpster.I will of coarse root for him and hope he is signed soon but i’m not buying the BS anymore. Alex is obsessed with Jeters popularity and Derek is obsessed with Alex’s ridiculous contract. How about the two quit playing grabass at what the other has and covet another dynasty like the team of my late teens and early twenties that just happened to see Jeter get a very lucrative deal. Think of it this way, while the rich man haggles over money that surely effects nothing but his ego others around the USA will not be able to have a Thanksgiving dinner with there family due to our poor economic situation in this country. What a shame my grandfathers had to take others lives in WW2 so Jeter, Randy Moss, and the list goes on can act like they are owed something more then the gifts they were already given. A damn shame.

  23. Genie Madson says:

    I believe that Brett Favre is still the #1 quarterback in the league!

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