On the need to hold the line at three years

Gil McDougald, ten-year Yankee vet, passes away
Arbitration Case: Joba Chamberlain
Derek Jeter takes batting practice prior to Game 6 of the ALCS. (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

The Derek Jeter news these days is flowing fast and furious. As the Yankees, with a line straight of Harry Potter, reportedly want Jeter and his people to “drink the reality potion,” negotiations are at a stand-still. The Yanks’ three-year, $45-million offer remains on the table, and while Jeter is believed to want a deal worth around $23-$24 million annually for four or five years, he has not yet made a formal proposal.

Time waits for no man though. While the Yanks and Jeter have not spoken since before the Thanksgiving holiday, the rest of baseball is moving ahead apace without Jeter, and various contract signings could impact the Captain’s baseball future. First, short stop Juan Uribe signed a three-year, $21-million deal with the Dodgers to play second base. Then, the Rockies and Troy Tulowitzki moved closer on a deal that will extend the Colorado short stop through 2020 and pay him between $115-$120 million over the final six seasons — his ages 30-35 seasons — of his deal.

In a sense, Jeter’s leverage just went up in smoke. One middle infielder not nearly as good as Jeter has been or can be signed for just $7 million a season while a 26-year-old stud will earn around $160 million over the next ten seasons. Besides the fact that he’s Derek Jeter, can Casey Close possibly justify a contract with a higher average annual value than Tulowitzki’s? Should the Yankees reduce their offer to Jeter? It wouldn’t be out of the realm of the ordinary.

Meanwhile, what we do know is that the Yankees are waiting. They’re waiting for Jeter to make a firm offer so they can make a counterproposal. They’re waiting to see what Jeter’s camp expects, and they’re waiting for a clear sense of the years and dollars it will take to re-up with the captain. In discussions amongst the three of us, Joe says he wouldn’t be surprised if the Yanks reached a three-year deal with the Jeter for $60 million and an option for the fourth. In light of the Tulowitzki deal, the dollars might give us pause, but after a certain point, the Yankees don’t care about the money.

Rather, for Brian Cashman and the Steinbrenner brothers, the overarching issue has to be about the years. The 2011 season will be Jeter’s age 37 season, and if he signs for only three years, he’ll have a guaranteed contract that covers his ages 37-39 years. In all of baseball history, only 68 players have averaged 120 games or more, and the successful among them have been power hitting outfielders or first basemen. The list of players who have done so while playing at least 50 percent of their games at short looks a little bit like this:

Rk Player OPS+ G From To Age PA BA OBP SLG OPS
1 Honus Wagner 139 389 1911 1913 37-39 1646 .321 .392 .468 .860
2 Omar Vizquel 91 453 2004 2006 37-39 1961 .286 .352 .376 .727
3 Ozzie Smith 91 371 1992 1994 37-39 1626 .284 .345 .349 .694
4 Rabbit Maranville 77 433 1929 1931 37-39 1898 .275 .339 .350 .689
5 Luis Aparicio 74 367 1971 1973 37-39 1576 .253 .303 .320 .622
6 Larry Bowa 64 366 1983 1985 37-39 1201 .245 .292 .307 .599
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/29/2010.

In other words, Derek Jeter, who is bound for the Hall of the Fame, would have to defy age to be worth a three-year commitment, and that’s without factoring in the dollars. Anything more than three years is bordering on the irresponsibility for a Yankee braintrust trying to win a winning ballclub. Since 1901, only seven times has a player 40 or older made it through at least 100 games with 50 percent of them at short. Only two of those players have taken the field since 1949.

Rk Player OPS+ G Year Age Lg PA BA OBP SLG OPS
1 Honus Wagner 126 156 1915 41 NL 625 .274 .325 .422 .747
2 Luke Appling 125 142 1949 42 AL 619 .301 .439 .394 .833
3 Luke Appling 125 139 1947 40 AL 572 .306 .386 .412 .797
4 Honus Wagner 120 123 1916 42 NL 484 .287 .350 .370 .721
5 Barry Larkin 101 111 2004 40 NL 386 .289 .352 .419 .771
6 Honus Wagner 92 150 1914 40 NL 616 .252 .317 .317 .634
7 Omar Vizquel 61 145 2007 40 NL 575 .246 .305 .316 .621
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/29/2010.

The results are similarly dire for those who play second base, and the Yankees do not have the luxury of moving Derek Jeter off of short. Were Jeter to sign with another team, it’s likely that he wouldn’t be expected to play short, but the Yankees have Alex Rodriguez anchoring third, Mark Teixeira signed at first for another six years and Robinson Cano ensconced at second. The outfield is full, and Jeter’s offense doesn’t profile as a DH — or as a left fielder for that matter. For the Yankees, he’s a short stop teetering on the edge of old age for a baseball player.

The Yankees know this. That’s why they’ve been in no rush to offer another year or add more to the pot of dollars. For Derek, that reality potion has a bitter taste, but if and when he drinks it, he just might find no better deal out there than the one the Yanks are offering today.

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Gil McDougald, ten-year Yankee vet, passes away
Arbitration Case: Joba Chamberlain
  • Plank

    Jeter is getting a bit nervous about maintaining his new mansion in Tampa.

    • mike c

      when you’re worth 70.1 WAR, that’s probably the extent of what your worries in life amount to

      • Plank

        Zack Greinke, Joey Votto, and many other players disagree that being a great ballplayer gets rid of life’s worries.

        • mike c

          no but i’m sure they’re at least OK with it

          • Plank

            Huh? Who’s okay with what?

        • OldYanksFan

          Might Jeter ask Minka to do Greinke and Votto? That’s gotta help.

  • Hughesus Christo

    I just posted something along these lines in an earlier thread, but its more appropriate here. We keep talking about “leverage” here, but Derek Jeter has the advantage here. People can say whatever they want while this is still “Greedy Derek” versus an imaginary SS TBD, but if it ever got real and became about Derek Jeter versus Eduardo Nunez because the Yankees don’t want to pony up 2 million dollars while raising ticket prices and charging X dollars per dog and with the new MNR prices and…

    That’s not an argument they win or can even afford having at the end of the day. Any figure and number of years we hear about the Yankees offering will be less than what he ends up getting. What will they have won with the juvenile media posturing and attempts to diminish the player they’re about to sign into his 40s at an over market deal? Jeter holds the leverage because both sides can’t afford any alternatives, but one side has a face, voice, and emotional connection to lord over the people supplying the cash to the franchise. A majority of the fanbase still refuses to get over Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui, two guys who don’t hold even a quarter of Jeter’s cache.

    And as I added at the end in the other thread, Jeter can do the same thing again in three or four years for a lesser, but still market-defying deal if he wants to. Because he’s Derek Jeter.

    • mbonzo

      Sorry but I completely disagree. Jeter’s revenue is all based on him being a Yankee. Sure he’ll get some media attention if he signed elsewhere, but how long would that last? How long would it take NY to forgive him for leaving?

      The Yankees did a very smart thing by making their 3/$45 offer public. They put the debate to work with the media, and the number fell perfectly above what his open market value is, and far below what Jeter wanted. The Yankees knew if Jeter wanted to get as much money as he can, he would hold out for a long time, now that the negotiations are in public they have demeaned his character. They’ve shown that Yankees fans are faithful to a winning team, rather than one player. Jeter now has to decide whether he’ll keep waiting out the negotiation and continuously be accused of being greedy. Close was not “baffled” by the number the Yankees offered, he was “baffled” that they were willing to ruin his character even though he’s worth money to them in revenue.

      • mustang

        Nailed it.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      I like your argument that the Yanks outbid themselves by opening their offer at 3 years and $45 million more than I like this line of thinking.

      • Hughesus Christo

        Can we agree that he is unlikely to sign for that figure? Don’t the Yankees “lose” at the end of the day, and still sign themselves on to a player they spent X weeks bashing in the media? It doesn’t make sense to me.

        • mbonzo

          Yankees will overpay him, but it won’t be $23m he wants. I’m sure he brings in enough revenue that the Yankees win no matter what he signs at. Its just how much they win by.

          • mustang

            Make that two in a row.

        • Esteban

          What do you mean by bashing? What have they said that so offends you?

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            I don’t think they’ve been bashing him, but I wish they hadn’t gone to the media with stuff like the “reality potion” comment, or said stuff like he was sort of holding up the Lee negotiations.

            But it doesn’t matter. It’s ridiculously overblown and no one will remember this shit three days after he signs.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              Jeter will remember

              • king of fruitless hypotheticals

                Remember and what? Boot a ball in the 10th inning of game seven next year? Striking out with bases loaded bottom of the ninth?

                Yeah, that’ll show us.

                Nothing good comes from this.

          • gc

            EVERYTHING they have said offends me. I could care less if some of it might actually be true. If this is the guy they supposedly want to come back and play shortstop for them, and if this is the guy they have previously stated publicly was a “legacy player” and one of the all-time greats in a Yankee uniform, they have gone out of their way from day one after their Tampa meetings to make sure everyone knows their negotiating position. They said it could get ugly and they sure have done the overwhelming amount of talking to the press to make sure it stays that way. They won’t fucking shut up about it.

            The player doing all he can to get the best deal he can should come as no surprise to anyone. Such has it always been in this game. The franchise going out of their way to tear down the legend they have helped cultivate and market and reap the benefits of, to me, is…..for lack of a better term, baffling. And still Jeter himself has said nothing, nor do I expect him to. They have tried to paint him as just another ballplayer. Then I guess the Yankees will have no problems admitting that they are just another baseball team. Nothing special. But we all know that’s not how they view themselves, nor should they. Now if they would only stop and ask themselves what makes them MORE than just another baseball team, they would realize that Derek Jeter is more than just another ballplayer in the long lineage of great Yankees they love to brag about.

            And for the record, I do believe the offer they made is fair (even though I think he’ll sign for more dollars). It’s not the money or the years that offends me, it’s how they’ve handled it. Whether anyone thinks Jeter’s done as an effective ballplayer or not, he doesn’t deserve to be treated this way. All the man has done in his career is play hard, play to win, and never once embarrass the franchise or the Yankee brand. His image, while tied to the Yankees, is a baseball-wide respected image. And he plays for the the most hated team in America. Even his enemies respect him. It would be nice if the Yankees did and just kept all of this as low key as their captain has. In the end, he’ll sign, they’ll overpay him, and they’ll all make nice and say the right things at the press conference. Which will only make people wonder even more why the Yankees deemed it necessary to let it play out like this.

            • I am not the droids you’re looking for

              I believe you are grossly over reacting to each of the Yanks’ brass comments, as well as to them in the aggregate.

              • gc

                The fact that the Yankees have made any negative statements at all tells me that this has been mishandled. It’s unnecessary and unwarranted for a franchise that puts such a premium on being the home of legends and Yankee Pride (TM). When you’re dealing with one of the greatest Yankees of all-time, you get the deal done with as little fanfare as possible. It doesn’t have to be pretty behind the scenes, but you get it done. With the way they keep going on about it to the press, they’ll still get the deal done, but now they’ll be left with this public ugliness and it never had to be that way. So no, I don’t believe I’m overreacting.

      • LarryM.,Fl.

        I think its a fair offer but not entirely based on play alone. Jeter is more than a player. Jeter knows this but has not faced up to his age and body lossing some abilities.

        Derek 40 years old retired and 250 million in salary is a dream no boy ever had not even you. We were all there at one time in our lives but only 1 out a 1000 make it then the odds get even less for 5 WS rings and HOF induction. Sign and enjoy the remainder of a dream life.

  • mike c

    i believe that jeter is the honus wagner of this generation

    • hello9

      I love Jeter just as much as any other yankee fan but honus wagner was on a different level in terms of dominating his peers.

      • mike c

        a-rod is probably a better comparison

        • Plank

          Jeter’s career is indistinguishable from Barry Larkin’s.

          (That is a compliment to both of them.)

          • mike c

            jeter has been way more durable than larkin though, 10548 PA over 16 seasons vs. 9057 PA over 19 seasons. plus jeter’s got the rings

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              plus jeter’s got the rings

              Damn that Barry Larkin for not surrounding himself with elite level talent in Cincinnati. Damn him.

              • James

                How does everyone feel about Larkin getting under 60% of the vote from the Hall of Fame committee last year? As I look back I consider Larkin a Hall of Famer but while playing I thought of him as the face of the Reds and a very very good player but not necessarily an elite player. On the other hand he does have that 95 MVP for a team that won the division in an shortened season after starting 0 – 10 plus 3 gold gloves and one ring…

                Back to Jeter’s legacy compared to his peers. Sometimes I actually think we almost devalue Jeter a bit from watching him every day. The man should really have 2 MVPs (1999, 2006)… both were monster years. He’s also got 5 rings, an all-star MVP and the 2000 World Series MVP (not to mention those 5 gold gloves). That looks like a pretty complete line to me. I’m only commenting on his relationship to his peers, not what his contract status should be going forward.

                • Januz

                  There is little doubt that Larkin is a future Hall Of Famer (Even his initial vote total (Above 50%) is a good indication of positive things to come).
                  On to Jeter, when you watch him or any athlete for that matter, on a day to day basis, you get a much better indication of how valuable they really are then by looking at numbers (He is simply not the player he used to be). A perfect example of how this works is Mark Teixeira: He led the league in runs scored with 118, which in and of itself looks good. However, if you looked at him on a day to day basis, you cannot say he had a good season (Despite leading the league in runs scored, winning another Gold Glove and getting 30 Home Runs & 100 RBI’s). The funny thing is over time, those stats will help him when it comes time to evaluate him for the Hall Of Fame, more than they helped the 2010 New York Yankees.

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          People are going to take this the wrong way, but from a pure production standpoint, Jeter does not approach A-Rod level. It’s an inapt comparison.

          • mike c

            nono, that was referring to a-rod being a better comparison to wagner than jeter

            • Plank

              Wagner : Arod :: Arod : Jeter

          • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

            Apparently Jeter hasn’t figured that out yet.

  • Jesus Montero’s Brain

    I PRAY that they don’t give him more than three years; in that case i would rather let him walk away.

  • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

    Not that this necessarily means anything, but Vizquel and Smith (for one year) had some of their best offensive seasons between 37-39.

  • mustang

    ” Should the Yankees reduce their offer to Jeter? It wouldn’t be out of the realm of the ordinary.”

    Shot of reality potion. Yes it would be “out of the realm of the ordinary.”

    However if the Yankees want to lose the credibility they have right now in this situation let them do something stupid like reducing their offer and we will see how quickly this thing turns to Jeter side.

    I’m all for logic (which the current offer is) on this thing, but don’t sleep your still deal with Derek Jeter not just some free agent.

    • mustang

      Read mbonzo.

      Nail it.

      A good card player never over plays his hand i doubt the Yankees will.

  • emac2

    Why do I keep hearing this “the Yanks don’t care about money bull”?

    Spending what it takes to land a top free agent means they don’t care what it costs to win. When have we thrown out 20 mil a year for old times sake?

    In case anyone missed it we didn’t win or make it to the series last year and we would be far better off taking the 45 mil per year Mo, Jeter and Pettitte will cost and rebuilding then locking ourselves into old players on multiyear deals.

    I keep hearing that Lee and Crawford are too old to commit 45 mil a year and yet we want to do that with Mo, Pettitte and Jeter?

    I would love those guys to come back but only for a year at a time unless they give the team a deal.

    If I was Cashmen I would be insulted that the offer wasn’t viewed as the overly generous deal it is.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      I don’t think you know what “rebuilding” means.

    • Sean C

      It’s a damn good thing you aren’t “Cashmen.”

  • mike c

    where can i buy some of this reality potion and how much does it cost? i need an edge.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      I’m pretty sure New York just outlawed “reality potion.” Or is that Four Loko? I get them confused.

      • Sean C

        Four Loko is more like an “alternate reality potion.” It brings a reality that you can’t, don’t want to, and most likely shouldn’t remember. This would be the equivalent of the Yankees giving Jeter his own 10-year Tulo megadeal.

  • mustang

    This is going to end at 3 years 57 Jeter makes a little more then he average on his last contract and the Yankees get their years.

    • mbonzo

      I like the estimate, 3/$57 is realistic, but I bet Jeter pulls of an option too.

  • TLVP

    The only way that Jeter gets leverage is if he threatens to retire. His legacy would probably not be tarnished if he spins it the rights way:

    “If the team thinks I’m getting worse and can’t handle a 5 year deal we should both move on”

    “I’m retiring because being the Yankees’ shortstop is the only jon I’d contemplate”

    “I wish the team and my team mates great success going forward and look forward to Old Timers day”

    Yeah – that ain’t going to happen

    • OldYanksFan

      P.S. I’m really, REALLY glad I ALMOST got 3,000 hits.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        Nunez for “free” is a pretty good alternative!

  • China Joe

    It’s strange talking about this stuff after reading Gil McDougald’s obit…the guy retired as a middle infielder at age 32, and he was no slouch, he was one of the best middle infielders in baseball for 10 years. Now we have Jeter hoping to play shortstop into his 40’s. Derek’s a legend, but he chose the wrong position to play for a living if he wants to play that long.

    • mbonzo

      McDougald averaged a .699 OPS his last 3 years. These are different times, players take much better care of themselves.

      Jeter over the last 3 years.
      .301/.369/.414
      McDougald
      .253/.324/.374

      I’m not saying Jeter won’t face obstacles in playing SS at 40, but baseball 60 years ago was way different than today. There are a handful of modern shortstops that were able to pull it off for 20 years. Its easier to compare Jeter to Vizquel than to McDougald.

      • China Joe

        Check the chart up there: the two best hitting shortstops after age 40 were Honus Wagner and Luke Appling, and they certainly aren’t modern players. Omar Vizquel? His OPS+ at age 40 was 61.

      • OldYanksFan

        Yes, except Vizquel was always a Defensive wizard, so anytime he hit, it was a bonus. Because Jeter is Defensively somewhere between a bit below average to terrible (and apt to get worse as he ages into his late 30’s), his offense is everything he offers, and also has to be good enough to offset the runs he gives away on Defense.

        Up until Ripken, SS was a Defense Only position, with many SS’s being the worst hitters on the team. If they had a great glove, they were acceptable.

        Ozzie Smith has a career OPS+ of 87, but played until he was 41 because of his glove.

        Omar Vizquel has a career OPS+ of 83, but played until he was 43 because of his glove.

        Cal Ripken, at 35, had a career OPS+ over 110, but was moved off the SS position.

        So even if Jeter can post a 110 OPS+ over the next 3 years, if he is very poor defensively, he may add very little to our ability to Win.

        I’m guessing here, so maybe someone can correct me with real stats…. but my guess is ‘PastaDivingJeter’ gave up 30 or more hits (due to lack of range) that an Average SS gets. So, if we SUBTRACT those 30 hits from Jeter’s 2010 stats….
        His BA goes from .270 to .225 and his OBP drops under .300.

        And I suspect Jeter gives away MORE then 30 hits a season now. God knows what 2011 – 2013 mmay be like.

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for

          Don’t know that I approve of the simple subtraction method :)
          But if we add in GIDPs things look even uglier.

  • http://www.wiredtowns.com Short Porch aka Master of the Obvious

    Jeter needs to consider not only the 45 mil, but the fact that he will get more endorsement money in New York, much more.

    He will also have a better dating life in NY. Cant put a price on that.

    If he walks, fine. The yanks can limp along with Nunez as their ninth hitter, which is where Jeter should be hitting anyway at this point, and Nunez will out-field him. The 45 mil can help defray the Cliff Lee salary. Oh, and we get a Type A draft pick.

    • Sal

      @ Short Porch aka Master of the Obvious: Do you really think Jeter is worried about how he’s gonna supplement his income? Elite iconic athletes compare their worth with their peers, they’re all in a bubble, your trying to evaluate on pure statistical baseball numbers and common everyday blue collar sense which works for fantasy baseball leagues, but this is big business with no salary cap and bucks to burn. The Steinbrenners made their own bed now they’re gonna have to sleep in it for a few more years, NY isn’t ready for moneyball just yet, not with this cast of characters already under contract. Nice front by the Franchise acting like they’re just one of the 30 other boys in the room, but they own the richest piece of real estate in MLB, it’s all relative so take those crunched numbers and file them away, Forbes might use them in some future article on the business of baseball, which is on it’s own planet, see Javy Vazquez and his $7M per. Amazing he couldn’t even crack the post season roster.

      • http://www.wiredtowns.com Short Porch aka Master of the Obvious

        @Sal

        So your argument is that this is all about baseball player’s egos, so the Yanks should just pony up. When it comes to financial resources, they are in another league anyway.

        A bad contract is a bad contract though no matter how you look at it. Giving Jeter much more than anyone else would is just stupid. What’s Jeter going to do? Let yet more balls get past him up the middle? put up worse road splits than last year — .246/.317/.317?

        That’s what the Yanks should pay 20 million a year for because they have an unlimited war chest? They don’t, and even if they did they are still businessmen. Jeter will not ever return at the gate an additional $5mil a year, given they are selling out every single game already.

        Why not play Nunez and invest 10 mil a year in player development, which you claim the Yanks are neglecting. Do you read DOTF btw? We’ve been accumulating arms for the past 4 years, as policy.

    • Scout

      By declining to offer Jeter arbitration, the Yankees forfeited the possibility of receiving any draft picks if he signs elsewhere.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      More Nunez love

  • Sal

    Nice job with all the heavy lifting and math work boys but your gonna hurt yourself trying to compare what Jeter is and what Uribe or even Tulo is/will be. We’re talking a guy with a lifetime .314/ .385/ 1685 runs/ 2926 hits/ 5 rings/ fills the seats with pink hats and corporate fatso’s, and he can still play for 2 more years at a pretty good level, one off season and everybody is jumping ship, disgraceful at best. Nice to see one of the RAB boys start to get it right, 3 for $60M sounds about right. Lee will get his $23M for 6, Mo will get his $16M and Andy will have to get his when he decides to return, Nolan Ryan will raise that bar, so the kids and Cashman will blow away that imaginary $210M budget. Too bad Cashman didn’t develop a Greinke, Lester, Buchholz, King Felix, Lincecum, Cain, or Price, that’s what’s costing Hal and Hank all the money, $46M for your #1 and #2 starters, that’s hamstringing a budget at it’s finest.

    • OldYanksFan

      “We’re talking a guy with a lifetime .314/ .385/ 1685 runs/ 2926 hits/ 5 rings/ fills the seats”
      ———————————————-
      Yeah… the only problem are those stats are IN THE PAST.
      Maybe you can tell use what you expect his triple slash/OPS+ to be over the next 3 years.

      Jeter doesn’t have 5 Rings really…. the YANKEES DO! and they gave one to everyone on the team. Eckstein has 2 Rings. How good a SS is he?

      In terms of filling the seats, I just looked at YS attendance figures (http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....atte.shtml)
      from 1980 onward. The Dynasty years jumped attendance big time, but for the prime Jeter years of 2000 – 2003, not much happened. Then, in 2004 and 2005, there was a huge jump in attendance…. because people came to see ARod play.

      Jeter ‘selling tickets’ is fanboy nonsense, especially now. Of course, if he goes to SF, I’m sure there will be a small bump in sales… but Yankee fans come to YS to see a Winning Team.

      • http://www.wiredtowns.com Short Porch aka Master of the Obvious

        Well done. Jeter at least in this context does not have an edge. This happens all the time in baseball. Skills wane, and the player is always the last to face that reality, understandably. 3/45. There are other ways to honor is career achievements. He should retire a Yankee. I can’t foresee anyone including the other 29 teams and Jeter changing that outcome.

      • Chris

        Eckstein has 2 Rings. How good a SS is he?

        Obviously, he’d only be 40% as good as Jeter.

      • miketotheg

        so we should sign eckstein and save a few bucks.

    • Pasqua

      The offer on the table is already paying him for all of the elements listed in your post. $15 mil/yr. is probably nearly double what his actual player value is. Just because it’s a first offer, doesn’t mean it’s not a fair offer.

    • Johnny O

      If we were paying Jeter for what he did in the past then we should give him another 10 year/$189M contract, which was pretty good for his actual production.

      It’s not Cashman’s job to develop a Greinke, Lester, Buchholz, King Felix, Lincecum, Cain, or Price. He’s the GM and has little to do with drafting and developing players. Also, due to the success of the Major League team (which he is responsible for), the Yankees weren’t in a position to draft most of those guys. And supposedly they offered Felix more $ than the Mariners but he went with Seattle. And I won’t even bother arguing that Hughes is at least as good as Buchholz.

  • Brian in NH

    Can’t we just resurrect Honus Wagner? He seems more than capable of still playing short.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Andy Stankiewicz is still available, you know. He’ll bring his own gloves and bats, too.

  • guy

    So.
    Here’s the thing.
    What does the Yanks front office know that we don’t?

    Probably a lot. But the thing that concerns me are DJ’s legs. He has had an ever increasing array of leg injuries, probably due to tendinitis in his left leg. I suspect that this is a possible cause of his several quad’ injuries this season — while attempting to compensate for the lower leg. It would certainly explain his declining range in the field, and poorer batting avg this season.

    So… while I would like nothing better than to see DJ at SS for the rest of my life (the only Yankees Jersey I ever purchased was #2 with #10 on the sleeve for Scooter). It boils down to whether his body can recover from these injuries.

    I don’t put any stock in his lackluster performance last year. Linear regression is susceptible to placing too much emphasis on the first and last points on the graph. By some of the logic above and elsewhere — if his contract was up last year; some might favor a solid gold statue in Monument Park (even bigger than George’s).

    Jete is capable of regressing to his mean… but, only if the wheels hold up.
    That’s the question.

    The front office obviously thinks, ‘not a chance’.

  • ZZ

    “As the Yankees, with a line straight of Harry Potter, reportedly want Jeter and his people to “drink the reality potion,” negotiations are at a stand-still.”

    You guys have to read and think about the context of these quotes before reporting stuff like this.

    Negotiations between the Yankees and Derek Jeter are at a standstill until Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, “drink the reality potion,” according to a source close to the negotiations.

    If Wallace Matthews had the chance to connect this reality potion quote to someone within the Yankees, it would have been plastered at the top of the article as the title. If it is not, especially for a reporter like Matthews, that tells you something.

    This didn’t come from someone within the Yankees. But you fell for it.

  • Fair Weather Freddy

    Does Tulowitzski’s extension take away more of Jeter’s leverage now?

    • Hughesus Christo

      Not sure how… but go for it.

      Until Tulo/Hanley hit FA any SS can claim to be “worth” whatever he wants to say he is worth. Players take a hit for re-signing before FA. The hometown discount still counts for 20 per?

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for

        How? Easy. A demonstrably better player (most recently and going forward and yes I can tell the future) is going to be making $16mm/year for the next 10 years, including nearly $20mm/year for the final six years of the deal.

        There is no remotely reasonable way to argue that Jeter should get more than the AAV of Tulo’s deal (ie not more than $16mm per) and even less so for the out years of Tulo’s deal (I.e. Not more than $20mm per) by the end of which Tulo will be *younger* than Jeter is NOW.

        3/45 already overstates his value as a player, and likely compensates him for “other stuff” that homers seem to place so much stock in.

        I still think this deal gets done at 3/57 which is ludicrous but evs.

        • Hughesus Christo

          It is dishonest to try to fold the 2013 extension into the 2020 extension. Casey Close wouldn’t buy that either.

          The point is that there isn’t a SS FA baseline out there and still isn’t one now either. Until an elite free agent actually hits the open market at SS or 2B both sides can say whatever they want.

  • ABS

    Jeter will move to third, ARod to DH when the time comes.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      That time should probably come in 2012, but then who plays short stop?

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for

        Hanley via trade?

  • The Wej

    Like everyone else I have been watching all the Jeter commotion, but it seems pretty simple. The Yankee offer is more than fair, adding 15-20Mil. for past accomplishments. The only reason the Yanks finally made it public was to avoid the perception they were trying to low ball him since Close has not said what his client wants. All the reports of six years, 125Mil. are pure hearsay, but may be true and if so is ridiculous.

  • miketotheg

    I’m just wondering how much this “pride” is worth to a billion dollar franchise? anyone remember the speech Jete gave at the last game at the old stadium? the stadium this site promised it wouldn’t tear down? anyone see the speeches The Boss give the Yankees at spring training about playing for “pride”?

    By all means let’s bring up every advanced defensive/offensive statistic in existence to tear down the captain of our favorite team, the guy we will tell our grand kids we watched play. the guy who’s biggest fault is that he keeps bedding the most beautiful women on the planet. No ‘roids, HGH, DUI’s or wife beating to his name. Who does this guy think he is?

    Maybe the Yankee executives are right and its just about the numbers. But then why do we go to baseball games at all? Maybe “pride” is just a fragile bargaining chip. Maybe we should re-sign Carl Pavano. Honestly this whole debacle is bumming me out. i can’t wait until they just resolve this.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals

      I’m with you for all of it except not using illegal drugs, abusing legal drugs or abusing his wife. Sorry…you don’t get extra credit for not being a $#itbag…

  • Matt

    How many years did they give Posada again? How old was he? What position does he play again?