Open Thread: 42 turns 41


Yesterday it was Jesus Montero, today it’s Mariano Rivera. The greatest relief pitcher in the history of humanity turns 41 years old today, and although he’s not technically a Yankee at the moment, we certainly expect him to be very soon. He simply belongs in pinstripes. Also happy birthday to another all-time great, Dodgers play-by-play announcer Vin Scully. The Bronx-born Scully turns 83 today, and like Mo he remains at the very top of his game late into his career. Happy birthday to a pair of baseball’s greatest.

Here’s your open thread for the night. The MNF game features the 49ers and Cardinals (holy snorefest), plus the Rangers are in action as well. You guys know the drill, so have at it.

Weekend Writer Update: The three of us are still pouring through the applications, I think there’s close to a hundred of them. We want to have this process wrapped up this week, but we’ve still got a ways to go. Stay tuned.

Thanks to RABer Tyler Wilkinson for the graphic.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. How did God create Himself?

  2. Steve H says:

    As the Olerud/Mattingly discussion broke out today on twitter I mentioned that Will Clark was better than them both. I cannot believe that Mattingly has been on the ballot for 10 years (peaking at 28%) while Clark got just 4.4% in his one year on the ballot. It’s not quite on the Sandberg/Whitaker level of insanity, and I don’t think Clark belongs, but he is woefully underrated if that’s all he could do on the ballot.

    • Clark was a jerk to the press, Mattingly was and is still an extremely popular player with the fans and media. It’s (at least partially) a popularity contest, that’s why Dawson got in.

  3. bexarama says:

    Fuck off Nolan Ryan >:(

  4. cano is the bro says:

    love the picture, Mo is awesome

  5. Bryan L says:

    Oh hai, my new desktop background.

    Happy Birthday #42, favorite player of all time.

  6. It’s not a coincidence that Jesus and G-d are born one day apart.

  7. Sheepmeister says:

    So I broke down and signed up for twitter, who are the best ones to follow.

  8. Sorry I’m late, guys… I was busy all weekend watching my large collection of Richard Simmons DVDs.

  9. Bryan L says:

    Mets closing in on deal for Chris Young… interesting.

  10. S says:

    That A-hole Nolan Ryan is trying to steal Andy

  11. Jeter still could help a lot of teams, including the two in Chicago, not to mention that he’s only 74 hits away from 3,000 and is sure to sell a lot of tickets.

    Among the teams that at least must be discussing Jeter: …

    White Sox: Realistically there’s little chance they will get Jeter but the fit shouldn’t be discounted out of hand. Alexei Ramirez, like [Starlin] Castro [of the Cubs], is a rising star. But his original four-year deal ends in 2011 and he will become an expensive proposition starting in ’12. If the White Sox signed Jeter, they could make a series of moves that would give them a chance to win in ’11 and ’12, the last seasons they could have their strong starting rotation in place.

    Ramirez could be dealt, quite possibly to the Yankees along with a bad contract or two (Mark Teahen or Scott Linebrink and catching prospect Tyler Flowers) for Curtis Granderson and possibly one of the Yankees’ two advanced catching prospects, Jesus Montero and Austin Romine. Then they could explore seriously another deal that has been discussed — Carlos Quentin to the Phillies for Raul Ibanez. That would give the White Sox an outfield of Juan Pierre, Granderson and Alex Rios, with Ibanez providing a Plan B if Dayan Viciedo doesn’t grab first base.

    Hey Chicago Tribune sportswriter Phil Rogers: Your trade proposal sucks.

    Real, real bad.

    Seriously, I cannot understate how dumb all that batshit insane crazy train crap was. I can’t believe you get paid to do that. I’m thankful that I’m not subjected to the Trib on a daily basis.

    • Steve H says:

      I read that the other day and couldn’t tell if it was satire or not.

    • bexarama says:

      I read this over the weekend. It’s one of the worst articles on baseball I’ve ever read, I think. That says something!

      • Agreed. One of my other favorite lines:

        His .340 on-base percentage ranked sixth among the 22 shortstops who qualified for the batting titles and his Mensa-level instincts earned him his fifth Gold Glove as he helped the Yankees reach the championship series for the ninth time in his 15 seasons.

        Looks like someone named Phil Rogers is still peeved that Mensa never accepted his countless membership requests.

        (Also, I wasn’t aware that there were multiple batting titles. Neither was Mensa, for that matter.)

        • bexarama says:

          on the Red Sox: He would be a great fit playing for Terry Francona and alongside gamers such as Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis.

          on the Twins: Adding a guy with Jeter’s presence could be the equivalent of adding a front-line starter, which is the piece that has seemed lacking.

          on the Angels: Erick Aybar is reaching the point of his career when his salary is starting to outdistance his value.
          (But… but… but… Jeter….!!!!!)

        • Kiersten says:

          There are 2 batting titles. So, while he gets literally everything else wrong, that is something he said right.

    • The Fallen Phoenix says:

      I really, really want to know why the Yankees would trade Curtis Granderson and Jesus Montero in order to get Alexei Ramirez (when Jeter would offer similar, if lesser, production but cost only money)- and, hey, you get a bad contract AND a lesser catching prospect, too! Like, in what universe does that make ANY modicum of sense?

      I’d almost rather sign Jeter to a six-year contract than go anywhere near that crap. It’s absurd.

      • I Voted for Kodos says:

        I’d love to spend a few minutes rummaging around Phil Rogers’ brain just to see what other sort of crazy shit is going on in there. It saddens me that someone who gets paid solely to understand sports has such a poor understanding of sports.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      that’s awesome–how about a sign and trade–Jeter signs with us for 4/$130 and then we trade him for Alexei straight up.

      go go ninja cashman!

  12. Steve H says:

    Here’s a good take on the Jeter situation from a Sox fan perspective.

    • Kit says:

      I honestly cannot take anyone who thinks the Jeter situation is a legitimate distraction from Cliff Lee’s offer seriously. It’s a distraction for us. Cashman has more than one person working for him. Other than that sentence, it is a generally good take on the situation. I take offense to the “chase Mariano” though. You fuck the hell right off, Boston.

  13. Sean C says:

    So, how in the hell is ESPN trying to sell tonight’s MNF game? Battle of the basement dwellers?

    • I Voted for Kodos says:

      For a while, there were trying to bill it as a battle of teams looking to get themselves back in the NFC West race.

      I’m just glad I get to watch my team play for once. The Niners have sucked so bad for so long that I rarely get to watch them.

      • Sean C says:

        Ya know, the sad part is that a 3-7 team isn’t really “out” of the race in that division.

        • That.

          I was forecasting the rest of the year today to prepare for my first mock draft… I had the Niners and Rams co-winning the NFC West at 7-9 each with the Seahawks a game back at 6-10.

          For the record, if SF wins tonight, the Rams, Seahawks, and Niners will all be either 5-6 or 4-7, and SF and STL have three of their final five games in the division; SEA has two of five (plus a layup game against the Panthers).

          This shit is still wide open.

    • Kiersten says:

      Jon Gruden’s last broadcast before joining The U?

      /wishful thinking
      /probably won’t happen

      • Yeah, Gruden’s not going back to college.

        A better, more realistic target is probably either Bob Stoops or Brent Venables, both of whom would be good options.

        • Kiersten says:

          *goes to*
          *looks up who those people are *

          Why would Stoops leave Oklahoma?
          And the other dude isn’t a head coach, pass.

          • Stoops would be a harder get than Venables, agreed. But Stoops can be had. He’s had a wandering eye for a while and has flirted with other top-level college jobs. Eventually, he’ll bite on one; rebuilding Miami might be the perfect fit for him.

            Don’t sleep on Venables, though; he’s the top assistant coach in the carousel and is a great HC in the making.

            • Kiersten says:

              Yeah but Miami can’t afford to have someone else fail, they need to make a slam dunk with the next coach, so IMO, that would be someone with HC experience.

              • Agreed, but who is that going to be?

                What other quality HC is going to leave his program to come to Miami? Sure, Miami can hire guys like Mario Cristobal, but what is going to impress Florida talent more, what Cristobal did at FIU or what Venables has done at Oklahoma?

                I could maybe be talked into Kevin Sumlin from Houston, but Venables is still probably a better “get” for the recruiting wars and name recognition. Getting an assistant coach from a top-notch BCS-AQ program is probably a smarter move than getting a head coach from some lesser school.

  14. Avi says:

    Where’s Chuck?

  15. Steve H says:

    I’m on a Will Clark kick tonight. Since 1950 only 4 players have had a higher OPS+ through their age 25 season than Clark, with a minimum 1500 AB’s.


  16. Avi says:

    I’m all for signing Lee. But I was thinking, who was the last pitcher to have this level of sustained success pitching at 88-92 MPH (fastball), WITH the control that Lee has (no nibblers like Glavine)?
    The only guy that I could think of is Maddux.
    I mean it isn’t common for a guy who doesn’t throw that hard to have this kind of success, right?

      • Avi says:

        Ok, so rephrase the question with 90-93 MPH. Still low for his level of success.

        • I’d say that 90-93 isn’t “low” at all. It’s much higher than people think. The number of pitchers who throw consistently harder than 90-93 isn’t big, and most of those harder throwers throw straight, hittable fastballs with little to no deception.

          90-93 is plenty fast.

          • Avi says:

            Yeah, no question movement and deception are critically important. Otherwise Lee would never be able to have the success he does. However if you look at the guys who have had his kind of success for three or more consecutive years, they all throw harder. Felix, Verlander, CC, Wainwright, Lester..
            It seems to me that being as effective as Lee with Lee’s velocity is uncommon.

            • Steve H says:

              Avg FB in 2010:

              Carpenter 91.4
              Lincecum 91.3
              Lee 91.3
              Hudson 91.2
              Wainwright 91.1
              Romero 90.8
              Haren 90.6

              His velocity is plenty fine.

              • Avi says:

                I’m surprised Lincecum, Wainwright and Carpenter are that low.
                91.3 seems high for Lee. Does that include his cutter?

                • 2010 Fastball Velocity, courtesy of Fangraphs:

                  1 Ubaldo Jimenez 96.1
                  2 Justin Verlander 95.4
                  3 Josh Johnson 94.9
                  4 David Price 94.6
                  5 Edwin Jackson 94.4
                  6 Clay Buchholz 94.1
                  7 Felix Hernandez 94.1
                  8 Mat Latos 93.7
                  9 Francisco Liriano 93.7
                  10 Zack Greinke 93.5
                  11 CC Sabathia 93.5
                  12 Matt Garza 93.3
                  13 Jon Lester 93.3
                  14 A.J. Burnett 93.2
                  15 Johnny Cueto 93.2
                  16 Max Scherzer 93.2
                  17 Jason Hammel 93.1
                  18 Tommy Hanson 92.7
                  19 Roy Oswalt 92.6
                  20 Yovani Gallardo 92.6
                  21 Fausto Carmona 92.6
                  22 Phil Hughes 92.6
                  23 Kyle Davies 92.6
                  24 Roy Halladay 92.6
                  25 Jeremy Guthrie 92.5
                  26 Clayton Kershaw 92.5
                  27 Ervin Santana 92.5
                  28 Gavin Floyd 92.4
                  29 Wade Davis 92.3
                  30 Hiroki Kuroda 92.3
                  31 Cole Hamels 92.0
                  32 Mike Pelfrey 92.0
                  33 Gio Gonzalez 91.8
                  34 John Danks 91.7
                  35 Matt Cain 91.6
                  36 Chad Billingsley 91.5
                  37 James Shields 91.5
                  38 John Lackey 91.5
                  39 Jeff Niemann 91.4
                  40 Chris Carpenter 91.4
                  41 Scott Baker 91.4
                  42 Tim Lincecum 91.3
                  43 Cliff Lee 91.3
                  44 Justin Masterson 91.3
                  45 Clayton Richard 91.3
                  46 Anibal Sanchez 91.3
                  47 Tim Hudson 91.2
                  48 Adam Wainwright 91.1
                  49 Ryan Dempster 91.0
                  50 Chris Volstad 90.9
                  51 Ricky Romero 90.8
                  52 Jake Westbrook 90.6
                  53 Dan Haren 90.6
                  54 Jonathan Sanchez 90.6
                  55 Rick Porcello 90.6
                  56 Joe Saunders 90.5
                  57 C.J. Wilson 90.5
                  58 Trevor Cahill 90.4
                  59 Jaime Garcia 90.3
                  60 Carl Pavano 90.1
                  61 Brett Cecil 90.1
                  62 Jon Garland 90.1
                  63 Colby Lewis 90.1
                  64 Brad Bergesen 90.0
                  65 Jered Weaver 89.9
                  66 Brian Matusz 89.9
                  67 Kyle Kendrick 89.8
                  68 Jeremy Bonderman 89.8
                  69 Jonathon Niese 89.7
                  70 Randy Wells 89.6


        • pat says:

          90-93 is solidly average if not a tick above for a LHP.

    • When your control is as off the charts good as it is with Lee, velocity is less of an issue. He figures to age well. Andy Pettitte barely breaks 89 MPH with his fastball, is still effective at 38, and could only dream of having Lee’s control.

      You know who was a lefty that had BB/9 rates like Lee? David Wells, and he pitched into his mid 40s.

  17. Avi says:

    According to this report the Yanks are close to resigning MO.
    Happy B-day!

  18. Reggie C. says:

    Cortland Finnegan is a thug who’s going to get destroyed next time he squares off against the U king, ANDRE JOHNSON.

  19. Wait, wait, wait… Brian Westbrook is still alive?

  20. ZZ says:

    I have to say I am pretty surprised scanning the interwebs and seeing the amount of negative reaction to the Uribe receiving 3 years.

    Scutaro got 2 years when he was 34. Uribe won’t even be 34 until the final year of the contract. It seems like a very fair deal to me based on his production, age, and comparable market.

    • Steve H says:

      Especially considering the deal Benoit got.

    • Yeah, he’s a nice player. Good power, doesn’t walk as much as you’d like but is a solid addition for a team that needs some pop and a SS. In a weak class at the position, he’s one of your better options.

    • Scutaro also

      A.) Only got 2 years
      B.) Signed for a lower AAV
      C.) Was also a contract that many people doubted the wisdom of, since Scutaro basically came out of nowhere at age 33 to have his first wOBA north of .340 and it was widely predicted that he’d fall back down to earth in Boston, which he did

      Saying that the Uribe deal is getting a bum rap because it’s not much worse than the Scutaro deal is classic “damning with faint praise”. The Scutaro deal was not exactly the paragon of savvy contract-offering.

      • ZZ says:

        Uribe, to me at least, is the better player and younger than Scutaro (meaning probably better production going forward) hence the higher AAV.

        And back to the younger part, he is 3 years younger so one more year than Scutaro sounds right to me. The 3 years seems from what I saw the big complaint from most people. But, I don’t see what is wrong with 3 years since he is just 32 next season.

        When talking about free agents there were almost always be a premium. That is just the nature of free agency. So market value and forces become primary when you want a player. Scutaro was just one example. Peralta could be another example.

        Based on the market for a Juan Uribe type player, his deal sounds about right to me.

    • bonestock94 says:

      I guess people freak out because he was well under avg for all but the ’09 and ’10 seasons. If he continues doing that it’ll be a good signing, if he reverts than it’ll be another stupid notch on Colletti’s belt.

  21. mbonzo says:

    Tulo is closing in on a 10 year extension? Is he nuts, he could make so much money!

  22. Avi says:

    According to Klaw the Rockies are about to sign Tulo to a TEN year extension. Dam it!

    • bonestock94 says:

      It would be a dream to see a guy like that in pinstripes, but still, I like it when guys like Mauer do big extensions.

  23. bonestock94 says:

    Over/Under 10/200??

  24. T-Dubs says:

    Ok ok ok. I broke down this lunatic’s trade proposal. Prepare your mind to be BLOWN!!/meda4our

    Mets get: Chone Figgins, Bumgardner, Justin Upton, prospects from Seattle & prospects from San Fran.
    Tampa Bay gets: David Aardsma
    Seattle gets: K-Rod, Castillo, Ollie Perez + cash from NYM
    Yankees get: Carlos Beltran
    Giants get: Jose Reyes
    Arizone gets: Joba Chamberlain, Fernando Martinez & Niese

    Ouch. My brain. You will notice that Tampa Bay gets David Aardsma for….well, nothing.

  25. bonestock94 says:

    The guy broke his wrist and still put up 6.4 WAR in ’10. Worth at least $22M for all but ’08 season according to fangraphs. Hard to see this as anything but great for the rox.

  26. Reggie C. says:

    Casey Close: Okay Cash. We’re willing to move on years and dollars.
    Cashman: I see. Where do you and Derek now stand on the team offer?
    Close: 10/150. If its good enough for Tulo, i guess its good enough for Derek. (click.) The Tulo extension clearly demonstrates the Rockies’s valuation of a gold-glove caliber, career-long team leader. Wait…hello? Cash? … Cashman? … Brian?

  27. mbonzo says:

    Wow so the Rockies are gonna spend more money. Close to a 3-year deal with De la rosa!

  28. Two things:

    A) Chris Carlin speaking French may be more disgusting than an actual French person.
    B) The Tulo megadeal and the Uribe deal broke the market for all SS other than Jeter.

  29. Avi says:

    TSJC on Cliff Lee: “His cutter was 86.3 MPH in 2010, and that was the 17th fastest cutter among qualified pitchers. The fastest was 91.4 MPH (Halladay).

    The lesson in all of this: Cliff Lee throws hard. The notion that he’s some sort of soft-tosser is incorrect. People shouldn’t harp on his velocity.”

    It’s not so much whether he’s a soft-tosser or not. It’s more about how many pitchers performed at an elite level over multiple seasons at his velocity levels?
    The elites usually BRING IT.

    • Lincecum, Cain, Halladay, Carpenter, Hamels, Wainwright, etc… they’re all pretty much identical to Lee in terms of velocity. They’re all elite, they all brought in multiple years pitching four-seamers in the 90-93 range and cutters/two seamers in the 86-90 range.

      Seriously, movement/location/command/control >>>>>>>>>>> velocity. Major league hitters would much rather face Edwin Jackson’s 94 MPH fastball than Halladay’s 92 or Lee’s 91.

      • And none of this even mentions breaking pitches or changeups. If your offspeed stuff is elite (Lee’s is), a 90mph fastball becomes nearly unhittable anyway because the hitters are so off balance from your curve/slider/slurve/change/circle change/etc.

      • Avi says:

        Lincecum wasn’t elite this past year. We was throwing harder than 91 MPH in ’08 and ’09 when he was. Hamels wasn’t elite last year. You just got finished telling me that Halladay’s cutter is 5 MPH harder than Lee’s. And in ’08 and maybe even ’09 Wainwright and Carpenter were throwing harder than they did this past year. No?

  30. bonestock94 says:

    Moyer getting TJ, what a beast.

  31. ZZ says:

    I will be very disappointed in you Troy if you allowed your agent to settle on $20 million for the extension years.

  32. Derek Anderson is not good at professional football.

  33. Damn, just saw that we lost Gil McDougald. Sad year in Yankeeland, holy shit.

  34. nsalem says:

    RIP Gil, great utility man, great hitter, the quintessential tough out.
    One of the most unique stances and strokes in the history of baseball.
    Fabulous 1956 season, probably was right up there in the MVP voting. Never the same after hitting Score with a line drive in early 1957.
    It was the beginning of the end for him also. He was a true “under the radar guy” who never really had a full time position. I think Casey Stengel was his only manager league manager. A glance a his stats especially where he played defensively and where he hit in the batting order will give you a true insight into the brilliance of Casey Stengel.
    Stengel was born with a binder implanted in his brain. I think he retired because he was left unprotected at the age of 31 or 32 (due to the emergence of Bobby Richardson, Tony Kubek and Clete Boyer) in the 1960 expansion draft and he did not want to go from first to worst. Another sad day in 2010 for the Yankees.

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.