Nov
23

Yankees will not offer Jeter arbitration

By

Via Marc Carig, the Yankees will not offer Derek Jeter arbitration before tonight’s deadline, meaning they will not be entitled to draft pick compensation in the unlikely event that the Captain signs elsewhere. Joe laid out the case for offering Derek arbitration just yesterday, but apparently the Yanks deemed it too risky. Perhaps it’s a sign of good faith?

Update: Buster Olney thinks the Yanks would “essentially would bail him out after a down year” by offering arb since he “might make $22-23 million” through the process. I’m not sure I buy that though. Jeter wants a multi-year deal.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

90 Comments»

  1. Teh Comp Pick says:

    I’d only offer arb if you knew you could stand firm on the three year proposal at 15 or 16 per, if your going to start going higher, why bother.

  2. A.D. says:

    Well likely a signal they won’t do anything too interesting with any of the arb cases.

  3. Doug says:

    Olney also thinks that the Yanks WILL be offering both Mo and Pettitte

    • Slugger27 says:

      i don’t understand why you would offer pettitte. he’s only gonna pitch for the yankees. what’s the upside?

      • Ok, but what’s the downside to offering? We already know the downside to not offering.

        • Clay Bellinger says:

          The potential downside to offering is that Pettitte accepts and is then paid a little more than they would have paid him had they just agreed to a one year deal.

          What is the downside to not offering? He won’t pitch elsewhere, so there’s no potential to obtain a pick.

          • I remember the last time we said “well they’re not going to pitch elsewhere, so why make the offer.” Then they signed elsewhere, and the Yanks were left empty-handed.

            I don’t mean to sound snarky, really, but I think people get way too comfortable that things are going to play-out the way we expect them to. Surprises happen, and planning for them and protecting yourself is wise. I’m not saying you always offer arb, because obviously that’s ridiculously too aggressive, but the level to which people are against offering arb is ridiculously too conservative.

            • Slugger27 says:

              you make fair points, but i think a lot has changed with pettitte since 2003.

              my stance: i’m not sure how the arb salary thing works, but everything i’ve been told on here and other sites is that players always get raises.

              not knowing what he will make but knowing it will be more is enough for me. i’d rather risk he goes and signs with the astros than risk him getting a 15M+ salary.

            • Clay Bellinger says:

              Who are you referring to? Clemens?

              In many cases, arbitration is an unnecessary risk. Who do you suggest that they offer arb to?

              • Yeah, and in many cases, it’s not an unnecessary risk. You have to examine each decision on a case-by-case basis. To simply never offer arbitration to anyone is too conservative a stance and the Yankees cost themselves draft picks, and negotiating leverage in some cases, by doing so.

                Yes: Jeter, Berkman

                I’d probably make the offer but it’d probably be irrelevant: Pettitte

                I’d probably make the offer but it really would be irrelevant: Mo

                Too big a risk for me because I think it could turn into Soriano Part Deux: Javy

                Definite no: Wood

                • Clay Bellinger says:

                  I agree that “never” offering arb is not a good strategy, but that isn’t the strategy the Yanks have. They offered Pettitte arb in ’03 and obtained a pick. Who did the get burned on since Clemens?

                  Jeter, AP, Mo – probrably all irrelevant as they are all highly unlikely to sign elsewhere.

                  Berkman – Absolutely not. How would he turn down a salary of like $15 mil? Same for Javy and Wood, how could they turn away such large salaries for next year.

                  • Meh, these questions have all been discussed, ad nauseum, in other posts recently, I don’t feel like re-hashing them here. Don’t mean this to sound snarky, just explaining why I’m not responding.

                  • Eh, I’ll respond re Berkman.

                    The man had to be convinced to allow the trade to the Yanks and wouldn’t allow the trade unless the Yanks agreed to decline his $15M 2011 option-year.

                    The man already, basically, turned down a 1 year, $15M offer from the Yankees.

                    How could he turn down a salary of $15M? He already did. I understand the trepidation, there’s a big risk involved in making that offer, but acting like it’s completely out of the question, or a crazy idea, is wrong. I know this is a tough one and I’m not expecting to, or even trying to, convince you of anything other than this is a move that should be seriously considered. People are too dismissive of it.

                    • Clay Bellinger says:

                      No offense at all and I understand you’re rationale, but that was months ago. You’d have to imagime that his agent has talked some sense into him since July. There is no way whatsoever that Lance pulls in a 1 year/$15 mil deal on the open market. He’d be crazy to turn that away. There is a great chance that he accepts the arb offer and the the Yanks are stuck with an ugly contract that they have to move and inevitably will end up eating unnecessary salary. Is the chance of losing say the $5-$8 million dollars they have to pay just to trade him really worth a 1st round pick?

                    • Look, I disagree with you. I think he’d decline. He had to be convinced to come to NY for less than half a season, and he made the Yankees NOT offer retain him for 2011 for $15M in order to do so. I think he’s made a ton of money in his career, he’s never left Texas and wants to return there or someplace more Texas-like than New York City, which couldn’t be any more different than the life he’s used to, he doesn’t want to be a DH (and he wouldn’t even be a full-time DH with the Yankees), and he just wouldn’t accept the offer if the Yanks were to make it. And if he were to accept, they’d have Lance Berkman on their hands – they’d have a productive player who they’d probably be able to trade at some point in 2011. I can’t convince myself that making the offer to Javy is worthwhile because Javy is worthless to the Yankees in a way that Berkman isn’t, and because Javy, at the very least, doesn’t clearly and actively not want to live in NY.

                      Literally every piece of extraneous evidence we have here outside of salary leads to the conclusion that he’d decline, and even the salary argument is mitigated by the fact that he’s already made a ton of money and already turned down $15M from the Yankees for 2011.

                      The possibility that the Yanks will have to overpay him and then try to trade him in 2011 is unattractive, yes. But I think it’s likely enough that he’d decline the offer that I’d make the offer, because I feel pretty confident that the Yanks would be netting themselves a first or second round draft pick, plus a compensation pick, if they were to do so (in what is expected to be a great draft, btw, and a draft in which the Yanks are likely to not have their own first-round pick).

                    • Clay Bellinger says:

                      If the Yankees are entirely convinced that Berkman is dead seat on declining, then obviously they should offer and I think they they would. It’s just hard to convince anyone that he would decline based on what we’re accustomed to seeing in sports. Players will usually take the most money that they’re offered, unless it’s at least close (like Tex did). In this case, he’d probrably only end up signing a deal that’s around 40% of the arb offer. The best two recent comp players that I could think of are Vlad and Matsui, who each made $5.5-$6 mil last year.

                      Montero just played a full year at AAA and he’s expected to be in the bigs next year. They have already informed Jorge that he’ll be the primary DH. He switch hits, so they wouldn’t even have use for Lance as a platoon DH as they did this year. If he were to accept, it really creates an issue for the Yanks and cuts into payroll in an offseason where the have 3 of their own key FA’s to sign and they’re pushing for Cliff Lee.

                      That being said, if Bronny Cash is entirely, or like 95%, convinced that Berkman will surely decline arb, then of course do it…it’s free picks! It’s just hard to imagine him willing to take such a pay-cut.

                    • “It’s just hard to convince anyone that he would decline based on what we’re accustomed to seeing in sports. Players will usually take the most money that they’re offered, unless it’s at least close (like Tex did).”

                      Yes, I agree, players usually take the biggest money they can find on the market.

                      Lance Berkman, on the other hand, already turned down $15,000,000.00 from the Yankees. We already know that he’s not necessarily going to just take the biggest offer, because he already turned it down.

                      Some guys buck the trends. This is someone who grew up in Texas, played at Rice, then played his entire career for the Astros, and has made over $94,000,000.00 in his MLB career. He has also given every indication possible, short of holding a press-conference just to say it, that he will not accept arbitration with the Yankees.

                      I said I wasn’t going to try to convince you of anything, and I think I’ve probably been trying to convince you of something. Whatever, at the very least, this is an idea that cannot be dismissed as easily as many people are dismissing it. At the very least, you shouldn’t be “baffled” that some people are considering it seriously.

                    • Clay Bellinger says:

                      I definitely see your point and I’m not dismissing it, it makes sense. If the Yanks know for sure that Lance will decline, then of course they will offer arb. How could they not? They’ll nab some free picks. It’s a win-win.

                      I’m curious to know what Cash is thinking and I guess we’ll find out soon enough. If they decide not to offer, we’ll know that there must have been considerable doubt that he’d decline the arb offer.

                    • MikeD says:

                      The risk-reward doesn’t allign. Pass.

  4. MikeD says:

    It really doesn’t matter since Jeter is going to resign with the Yankees. Getting back to one of Hal Steinbrenner’s comments last week regarding “respect,” offering Jeter arbitration might be taken as a negative and the organization doesn’t want to do that knowing they’re going to work out a multi-year contract.

    • Slugger27 says:

      id imagine a vast majority of yankees fans don’t know what arbitration is or the meaning behind it.

      i actually agree with olney. i honestly believe they don’t want him accepting, be stuck with him at 25M this year, and be in the exact same situation next offseason.

      • MikeD says:

        I don’t think Jeter would accept arbitration for that very reason. He’d be back at this situation next year; he’ll have passed by 3,000 hits, losing that bit of marketing leverage; he’ll be yet another year older, most likely decreasing the length of any multi-year deal; and there’s always the risk that he puts up another mediocre season for him, or worse takes a further step down. It would almost be an acknowledgment on both sides that Jeter could be playing his last season for the team, and that would cause a media storm itself.

        What money Jeter gains in one year of arbitration could be lost on the other side of a lower multi-year deal, and Jeter wants a multi-year deal. It appears the Yankees are prepared to go up to around $20 million per with Jeter. Their concern, rightly, is on the length of the deal, so based on that, I’d think they’d be more open to paying Jeter a one-year deal for $25 million, especially with his march toward 3,000 hits in 2011, as opposed to giving him a three-year deal for $56-60 million.

        I was in favor of offering him aribitration simply because it would lower his value on the open market slightly, and that’s a slight advantage for the Yankees. Yet that’s the reason the Yankees didn’t. Respect. They’re going to work out a three-year deal.

        • Slugger27 says:

          you make a lot of good points. his market value being lowered was really the only upside i saw though.

          he had a down season in 2008, and say that was when his contract expired. the yanks offer arb and he accepts. then 2009 happens. now we’re looking at a much different deal.

          i guess they just think they should take advantage of his down season and stand firm on what they think market value is.

          • MikeD says:

            Of course, I could play devil’s advocate to my own post and suggest that this is part of a hard-line negotiating tactic, and by not offering Jeter arbitration, they’re signaling him that his days of making $20-million plus a year are over, so he better start to seriously consider the offer on the table.

            I don’t think that’s the case. I stick with my original post, but anything is possible here.

  5. Brazilan Fan says:

    IMHO i think jeter will ot sign with the yankees.

    I view this incident as a sign that they don´t wanna pay him.

    No strings attached, you know?

  6. Slugger27 says:

    i’ll be pretty disappointed if the yankees offer anyone arbitration.

    • Doug says:

      can i ask why? confused about being “disappointed”

      • Slugger27 says:

        othen than possibly mo, i think offering arb to any of them is a bad decision.

        jeter and mo i think were borderline calls, but the rest to me are obvious no brainers that we shouldn’t offer.

        i don’t want them to get stuck with any of these salaries as i think everyone would accept.

        • Doug says:

          what about andy? if he got $14M or so (a 20% raise), would that be considered “stuck”? personally, i think if he comes back, the yanks and he would agree to something at about that amount anyway.

          • Slugger27 says:

            well, yes. but again, what’s the upside? he’s not type a, so his market value won’t be lowered.

            i guess i feel like we could have him back at 12-13M, and thru arb we risk him getting 14-15M.

            again, if he’s only going to play for the yankees, i just don’t see what can be gained.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              Andy is a type A but he’s not going to play anywhere else.

              • Slugger27 says:

                ah, i see he is type A. that changes things a LITTLE bit, cuz his market value would be lowered, but i stil think arb is a bad idea. he’s not playing anywhere else, why give up control of the salary if you don’t have to.

            • Clay Bellinger says:

              I agree, there’s really no upside. He isn’t going to play elsewhere anyway. Although, it wouldn’t be the worst thing for him to accepet arb, why would you offer him a raise when he’d probrably sign for what he got last year?

            • Hughesus Christo says:

              Pettitte is another guy who will be wildly overpaid next year (if he comes back) and get nowhere near the heat from “Yankee fans” that Jeter is getting.

  7. Monteroisdinero says:

    Is there any way we can be a better team next year without the 40 million Jeter and Mo will get collectively? Any other ways to spend it and be better?

    • Clay Bellinger says:

      Probrably not. They’d open two significant holes on the team. Good SS’s and dominant closers are tough to come by.

    • emac2 says:

      Hell yes we would be better! You can build an entire 40 man roster for 40 mil.

      • JAG says:

        But you can’t build a GOOD 40-man roster for that much. And not when you don’t just have your pick of top-10 draft picks or prospects.

        The Marlins can only do it because they have Hanley. Who are you going to get that’s even close to that level besides Jeter?

  8. Jim says:

    Was Wang the last Yankee player to be offered arbitration?

  9. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Well they declined the safest bet to not accept. Looks like another year of not giving out arb.

    • Slugger27 says:

      Looks like another year of not giving out arb.

      for everyone remaining outside of mo, i hope to god you’re right. even with mo i don’t really want it offered, but that one could go either way.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        Berkman should be given arb. Maybe, maybe Wood if he wants to close and Javy if he’s really delusional.

        • Clay Bellinger says:

          None of those three should be offered arb at all. Any of them stand a good chance to accept.

        • Slugger27 says:

          honestly, i think those 3 guys are by far the easiest no brainers of any of them. why would any of them decline?

          all 3 salaries would be way over market value, and in berkmans and javys cases, arb would probably be DOUBLE market value.

        • Mister Delaware says:

          I’d rather Wood than Berkman just because Berkman accepting creates a roster issue (what to do with DH and C playing time) whereas Wood doesn’t.

  10. steve (different one) says:

    It’s a token of good faith. Offering arb, for all of the (valid) reasons that RAB laid out, weakens Jeter’s position. In the interest of coming out of the process with their relationship with the face of the franchise intact, I think it makes sense to not do anything to turn up the heat.

    He’s not playing elsewhere next year, so there are no draft picks at stake. The only reason to do it would be as a negotiating tactic, and I get why they didn’t want to be too aggressive here.

    • Hall and Nokes says:

      I agree, and I wouldn’t even be that surprised if the Yanks felt out Jeter’s position on this beforehand. The arb question, while significant, is peanuts compared to the length of a long term deal. So why get in a war over it?

    • Yeah, this is clearly the reason why they declined to make the offer. I happen to disagree, but this is the rationale.

    • Slugger27 says:

      you do make a lot of good points. i think this combined with the fact they didn’t want to pay him 25M this year and be in the same situation next offseason is why they made the decision to not offer.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      I get why they didn’t want to be too aggressive here.

      I don’t. It’s a business decision. Jeter understands that. He took them to arb in 1999 (they offered $3.2, he wanted $5 mil) and won.

      He understands. I cannot see not fathom why the Yankees wouldn’t use all the tools at their disposal.

      • Yeah but you “get” why they’re doing what they’re doing. You just disagree with it.

        • Sweet Dick Willie says:

          Yep. I almost always disagree with shooting oneself in the foot.

          • Mister Delaware says:

            From a negotiations standpoint, doesn’t offering imply you value him at atleast $23MM after initially offering him $15MM?

            • Sweet Dick Willie says:

              Apples and Oranges.

              The $23 mil is for one year, the $15 mil is really $45 mil, as it is a 3 year deal.

              But the reason I would offer arb would be to force Jeter to make a decision that he probably doesn’t want to make, and either way he decides would be fine to the Yankees.

              • Mister Delaware says:

                I’m not sure $24MM and extending the drama another 12 months would really be fine w/ the Yankees. Especially if they’re expecting this to get done for like $17-18MM per over 3.

                • Sweet Dick Willie says:

                  You’re assuming he accepts. We have no way of knowing if he would or wouldn’t. There are logical reasons for him to accept and decline.

                  Like I said, from a business/negotiating standpoint, it makes sense to force the other party to make a decision they would probably rather avoid making.

                  • Hall and Nokes says:

                    The only way they can really screw this up though is to do something that 1) actually offends Jeter or 2) can reasonably be portrayed by his agent to the media as offensive to Jeter. Make it personal, and you raise the possibility that someone makes an above market offer that forces the Yanks hand, or that god forbid he takes.

                    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

                      Offering arb won’t offend Jeter. He understands the process.

                      It would be very foolish of his agent to try to negoiate this deal in the media.

                      Few fans will buy that a 3 year $45 million deal is offensive, especially when no other team comes close to that offer.

                  • Mister Delaware says:

                    I’m not assuming he accepts, I’m assuming there’s a far greater chance he accepts than signs elsewhere as a Type A. That’s what you have to weigh when making this decision.

                    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

                      I’m assuming there’s a far greater chance he accepts than signs elsewhere as a Type A

                      I agree, but just because he declines doesn’t necessarily mean he will sign elsewhere.

                      He can decline and still negoiate a deal with the Yankees.

                  • Mister Delaware says:

                    (And yes, that makes me part of the legion that sees almost no chance of Jeter leaving NY, no matter how uncomfortable these negotiations get.)

    • Mike HC says:

      I’m leaning toward the side that thinks the Yanks didn’t offer arbitration because they didn’t want to from a business standpoint. Nothing to do with respect. But as I wrote below, I really don’t get this whole thing, so take my opinion for what its worth. Almost nothing.

  11. Brazilan Fan says:

    this arbitration thing is good only for the small market teams.

    I don´t agree wih the compesation.

    • Mike HC says:

      I believe the system is set up for when both signs honestly want to come to an agreement. Not when one side wants to keep a player for a low ball offer.

  12. Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

    As long as the Yankees acquire the best talent they can on the International market, I could care less if they offered arbitration to anyone.

    • Mike HC says:

      That is kind of how I see it as well. The draft is not the only way to acquire young talent, and not having any picks can easily be replaced by signing top international talent. Really, I think the MLB system is completely messed up and someone needs to go in there and completely re do the entire thing.

  13. Mike HC says:

    I have to say I am completely baffled by the entire arbitration process. I don’t think I will ever really get everything that goes into it until/unless I am working for a Major League team. There is just seemingly too many things at play for me the fan to understand completely.

  14. steve (different one) says:

    To me, the most fascinating part of this saga is the NY media’s shocking refusal to carry Jeter’s water for him. Aside from morons like Lupica (who will argue the Yankees should pay Jeter whatever he wants and then follow it with 3 columns decrying their payroll), most of the press I’ve seen has been pretty sympathetic to the Yankees’ position.

  15. Avi says:

    Love the move. If the Yanks offer it, Jeter takes it. He’d then only have to get a two year $22M contract after next season to equal their current offer ($45M 3 years).

  16. emac2 says:

    The reason they aren’t offering arbitration is that the only clean way to force him to take a contract close to market is to allow him to shop himself without the other club being forced to include a 1st round pick.

    They have laid out an offer that is more then fair and told him to take it or shop it. If they offer arbitration Jeter crys foul that he couldn’t get a fair contract with someone having to give them a pick and makes the Yankees the bad guy.

    The bottom line is that we are better off trading for Drew or Ramirez and letting Jeter walk now then having to let him stay at shortstop for 3 years.

    Some of the things that made him such a great player prevent him from doing what is best for the team as he ages.

  17. EnVy1 says:

    As a Yankee fan, I love to see Jeter & Mo play, But there’s no bigger Love for me than the NY YANKEES as a whole. Not for nothing we all love winners and we made all these people very very rich, The Steinbrenners included, so will the two sides just shut up including that Hank Steinbrenner the mouthpiece, and let Hal handle the business side of it and to our Captain prove to all of us that you truly are and will be our great Captain, $45 million is more than enough especially in your twilight years. What lies behind didnt matter and so is the future, what matter most our beloved Captain is what lies WITHIN you. Your a class act and a real champ, prove to us for the last time that you really are. Mo, you always thank God almost everytime I hear you talk, now prove to us that greed is not you. Remember, us fans are and will always be the one that you all owed most……

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