Dec
16

Feinsand: Yankees “exploring” Rafael Soriano (UPDATE: Nope)

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Update (5:57pm): So much for that, Buster Olney says the Yanks are no going after Soriano after all. Unsurprising to say the least. Meanwhile, Kerry Wood agreed to sweetheart deal with the Cubs that will pay him just $1.5M for one year. He turned down $3.5M from the White Sox, and a source told Feinsand that the asking price to return to the Yankees was much higher. I guess he just really wanted to go back to the Cubbies. What can you do.

(3:32pm): Via Mark Feinsand, the Yankees are “exploring” the possibility of signing free agent reliever Rafael Soriano, having preliminary discussions with his agent Scott Boras. Joe laid out the case for signing him just this morning, but I’m not terribly fond of surrendering a first round draft pick for a reliever no matter how good he is. Feinsand’s source says that while the Yankees aren’t willing to meet any asking price, though they are comfortable paying him more than they would have Kerry Wood.

Bobby Jenks just came off the board as well, agreeing to a deal with the Red Sox. Oh well, I expected him to end up in Tampa anyway.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

246 Comments»

  1. JamieK says:

    There’s the kiss of death, Yanks ‘exploring’, Yanks ‘pursuing’, Yanks ‘going hard after’, Yanks ‘in on’…Soriano’ll be signed by some random team by the end of tomorrow.

  2. John says:

    If you sign him for four years, he sets up Rivera for two years then closes for the next two. He could very well be the Yankees closer from 2013 onwards. The talks about Brackman as the Rivera’s replacement could now come to an end.

    • Bulldozer says:

      Not positive, but I think Cameron at Fangraphs showed that only one reliever ever gave what expected from a 3+ year deal. Of course it was Mo.

    • Rob says:

      you’d be comfortable signing him to be our closer of the future, when 2 years from now Soriano will be 33? how much of a future as an elite reliever does he have at that point, if any? my take is that’s too far out to commit so much $ and years to a reliever + draft picks. There will be guys of a similar level a year or two from now. I think it’s crazy to project Soriano as a capable closer for us in 2013. Suppose Mo is still producing and wants to come back for 2013, I doubt it, but do you push him out the back door? Or just continue to pay Soriano closer $ to be a setup man? I’m definitely against this idea.

    • Steve O. says:

      Yeah, but do you want Soriano on a four year deal? I sure as hell don’t. Who’s to say that he’ll be closer worthy in 2014? Or 2013 for that matter?

    • If you sign a relief pitcher for four years you are making a bad decision.

  3. theyankeewarrior says:

    I wouldn’t mind this at all. I just hate giving up the pick.

    The Jenks thing is really weird to me. No one else in MLB wanted a closer with for 2/12?

    • Mr Moss says:

      Its not like the yanks make good 1st round picks anyway

      CJ Henry
      Cito Culver
      Gerrit Cole
      Eric Duncan

      these names ring a bell

      • One of those names is not like the other. Gerrit Cole was a grandslam pick if he was going to sign, he only fell to the Yankees because of it, and they took a great risk.

      • pat says:

        Phil Hughes?

      • Not Tank the Frank says:

        Andrew Brackman, Ian Kennedy, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain (supp.), Slade Heathcott…

        But yeah great point.

      • Steve O. says:

        That isn’t good reasoning at all. Past first round picks have no effect on future first round picks. They’re all essentially lottery tickets. Having more at higher picks is much better than not having them at all.

      • pete says:

        We know nothing about Culver yet, and Cole was a slamdunk pick at the end of the 1st round. He was a high risk pick because he wasn’t sure about college, but passing on him would have been absolutely nuts. The kid was a top-5 talent.

      • Why do the Yankees even bother drafting anyone???

      • yankees1717 says:

        this is completely ridiculous. cole was a great pick, just cuz it didn’t work out doesn’t mean it was a bad pick. and are you really writing off cito already?
        and finally, i notice you neglect to mention hughes, kennedy, chamberlain and brackman. When a team hits on 4 of their last 7 first rounders, that is damn good. mlb draft isn’t like other sports.

        • dalelama says:

          I married a great woman but then I caught her with my best man. Yeah that was a great choice. I don’t care if it was Jesus Christ if you don’t sign it the pick was wasted.

          • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

            The guy that does the picking is not the guy that does the signing.

            Or, more liberally, the guy that makes the scouting suggestion is not the guy that signs the contracts.

      • Sweet Dick Willie says:

        So after 56 professional games, you’re ready to call Culver a bust?

        With an eye for talent that acute, I’m shocked you don’t have a job in MLB as a scout.

      • Shaun says:

        Culver was solid especially considering he was 17 going from high school to pro ball. Also did you know the yankees don’t start tweaking players swings until after they played their first season of ball? Culver was playing on his current skillset and still did good enough to get promoted. I think he will be significantly better after instruction.

  4. The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

    Do not want. Taken from FG..

    Relief Pitcher A: 49 IP, 1.65 BB/9, 9.00 K/9, 26.2% GB%, 3.02 FIP
    Relief Pitcher B: 62 IP, 2.02 BB/9, 8.23 K/9, 32.5% GB%, 2.81 FIP

    A is the nontendered Joel Peralta and B is Soriano. One will be expensive along with the first rounder that will be lost. The other costs no picks and should be cheaper.

    Granted it’s the NL east but still solid for a set up guy.

  5. Granderslam says:

    Yankees should be “exploring” trades for a SP, not named Freddy Garcia or Zambrano.

  6. AJ says:

    I’m with you Mike. Unless Soriano’s price comes way down we shouldn’t be investing the rare money we have under the payroll on an 8th inning guy who wants closer money. We should sign some cheaper bullpen help and try to make a move in the season.

  7. AndrewYF says:

    People forget that Soriano is a pretty big injury risk, especially now that he’s in his 30s. I wouldn’t be surprised if he pulls a Marte.

    Don’t do it, Cash.

  8. Anthony Murillo says:

    At this point, I could care less about the draft pick we woud lose if we were to sign Soriano. I know that’s not a popular opinion on here but whatever. I would like to see him signed.

    • Xstar7 says:

      I agree. Him and Feliciano should serve as a pretty decent bridge to Mariano.

      • Rob says:

        for the $, years and draft pick he’ll command, he’s gotta form far more than a “pretty decent” bridge to Mo for me. Allocate the $ more wisely, I don’t wanna spend half the AAV of Lee on a RP, no thanks, make smaller smarter moves and save the extra cash to add a big piece or two at a later date.

        • Xstar7 says:

          But what other big pieces are available that won’t cost us our farm system?

          • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

            Fuentes and Feliciano.

            • Xstar7 says:

              The Yankees are already pursuing Feliciano. As for Fuentes, actually I really don’t know anything about him. But I wouldn’t exactly call these guys BIG pieces.

              • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

                They’re big for the bullpen which is what you were asking right?

                But if you mean bigger acquisitions it’s looking unlikely. Outside of Pettitte theres only a select few that’s trade worthy and we hear no indication fo the Yankees pursuing them.

                The offseason looks like it’s shoring up the bullpen and bench while signing a couple of risky pitchers while trying to get Pettitte.

                • Xstar7 says:

                  That kinda blows. #46 Must come back.

                • Rob says:

                  Haha no what I meant is add lower level bullpen guys right now..but by “big pieces” I meant by way of trade, just say Fausto Carmona or someone of that caliber perhaps before the season starts or at the trade deadline, like a Roy Oswalt or whoever becomes available this season.

                  • Rob says:

                    I like Fuentes but probably not at the price he is asking. If we officially add Feliciano as our lefty, maybe we can grab one other guy to throw in the mix (like CHoP last year), some one that is good/undervalued for like 1yr/$2m..like a return of a healthy Aceves would be much welcomed, or someone of that ilk.

                    • Clay Bellinger says:

                      I like Fuentes a lot, but he wants the Downs contract 3/15, ughh

                    • Rob says:

                      Clay, couldn’t reply under yours for some reason..but yea to me he isn’t worth that for us, esp when you lock that number into your payroll the next 3 seasons (and a roster spot), to me the bullpen (middle relief..everything but closer) is like running backs in football, they’re pretty much a dime a dozen and you rarely should spend premier resources on them (i.e. picks/$$$ and years), very few exceptions for me. We already got a good nucleus (that can still develop and improve) and the bullpen to start the year will be so different than the one to end it, we can bring up a young player, even drop Ivan Nova into the pen or whatever and let it work itself out to a degree. I’m not against adding a quality guy though at the right price but there isn’t much that looks worth it to me, maybe the prices go down once the season starts (like the Kerry Wood pickup). To me, save for a SP or 2 (Andy) because the the pen can be filled out far more easily than the starting rotation.

        • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

          Right, the eating of salary is one of baseball’s biggest trade chips.

          Wasting it on any reliever isn’t good unelss it’s Mo. No reliever is worth hefty contracts. The cost a draft pick is just icing on the don’t do it cake.

        • Steve H says:

          Allocate the $ more wisely, I don’t wanna spend half the AAV of Lee on a RP

          That’s scary (and so true)

          • Eric Young says:

            Or increase the budget. $205M is a completely arbitrary #.

            Bosox and Phillies don’t have nearly the cashflow NYY has but are awfully close to us in payroll (as of today, Bosox is #1 in MLB).

            Hal’s budget seems based more on what he wants to take out of the company than the “put it back into the team to win” mentality that his dad had.

            • Sweet Dick Willie says:

              Do you know what “Hal’s” budget is?

              I haven’t seen it published anywhere, but I do know he offered Lee $23M/yr, so it is, at a minimum, where they are now plus $19M (Lee’s 23 – Martin’s 4).

              The fact that Cash hasn’t spent it yet doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it.

      • pete says:

        eh, so would were are Robertson/Chamberlain/Logan.

    • Bulldozer says:

      For a one year or even two year deal at a decent AAV, sure. For more than that pass. Not even the pick. Long term RP contracts almost never work out.

    • Eric Young says:

      I know that’s not a popular opinion on here

      Doesn’t have to be popular to be right. There was a time when conventional opinion was that home runs weren’t considered particularly valuable.

  9. What is the possibility of acquiring Leo Nunez, Joel Hanrahan, Sean Marshall or Rafael Betancout? Are any of them available?

    • Granderslam says:

      I remember hearing that Nunez was available. That would be a great move IMO. I’ve been saying this since the July deadline. Also, I wish Sean Marshall was a possibility, but I don’t recall hearing anything in regards to his availability.

    • Steve O. says:

      I think they’ll all be too expensive to acquire in a trade now.

      Although I think Betancourt wouldn’t be too expensive at the deadline. I’d pluck him because he’ll be the cheapest and he’s still pretty damn good.

  10. YankeesJunkie says:

    Just got to say no on this one. Relievers to big deals are too risky unless their name in Mariano Rivera and last time I checked Rafael Soriano is not named Mariano so no.

    • JamieK says:

      Which is exactly why it baffles me that supposedly the Yanks were going hard after Jenks, but couldn’t come up with 13 over 2 instead of the 12 he got?

  11. LunaticFringe says:

    Just listening to Heyman on WFAN, said he brought Soriano’s name up to a “Yankees official” yesterday and got a reaction he interpreted as “Are you insane?”.

  12. Cy Pettitte says:

    can we just get Rauch for something like 1/4m or 2/7m and Fuentes/Feliciano and call it a day? The money is better spent on starting pitching, imo, than Soriano

  13. Brian Cashman is Watching says:

    From Buster_ESPN:

    Heard this from two sources: With the Jenks signing, BoSox payroll is actually higher than NYY. But the Yankees still have moves to come.

    So. . .we’re the scrappy underdogs now?

  14. Tony says:

    We lose out on Crawford and Lee. Then they tell us they will work on the bullpen. Then we lose out on Wood and Jenks goes to the Red Sox!

    I am besides myself right now.
    We are not making the playoffs with this team.
    Not in a division where Boston is going to stampede us 19 times and Toronto and Baltimore keep getting better.

    We are alot more than a few players away at this point.
    Soriano would be great (but I have ZERO faith we will get him)
    And so what..Bostons Pen is still better than ours. (Jenks Bard & Paps) Ok so we trade for a starter: There are 2 names that would make me feel better..Felix and Josh..and that aint happening.

    I will not be spending money to go to the stadium to watch a 2nd rate team….

  15. Angel says:

    Yankees take 2 days talking to the future HOF Pedro Feliciano, BS get Jenks fast… Good Job Cash

    I think we are going to finish with Jorge Sosa and Neal Cotss

  16. Cashman says:

    Hey Tony, come back off the ledge! It is December 16! The season is months away! Relaxxxx

  17. Fair Weather Freddy says:

    I’m surprised the Angels aren’t going hard after Soriano, and why haven’t the Rays tried to bring him back? Are they totally broke?

  18. JohnathanCold says:

    Would certainly bolster an already solid pen. If the price is right I’m all for it.

    Then square away the starting rotation the best you can add a bench player or two and we are ready to rock.

    • umbrellaman says:

      This is definitely worth “exploring.” Here’s where you can get creative. First, Soriano would be a great asset to the team. There aren’t that many relievers who have been that effective over the last 3-4 years. Having a shutdown bullpen can really cover up starting pitching deficiencies especially when you have the offense that the Yankees do. Think back to 1996 – the rotation was Pettitte, Key, Rogers, Gooden with Mendoza, Cone and others. Playoff rotation was Pettitte, Key, Cone and Rogers. That sounds better today than it was, because Rogers, was well Rogers, and Key and Cone weren’t likely to give you more than six innings at that point. In the bullpen you had Mariano for the 7th and 8th, and Wetteland for the ninth, plus Lloyd/Nelson to match up in the 6th, and Weathers and Boehringer as the long men.

      A bullpen with Rivera, Soriano, Robertson, Chamberlain, Feliciano, and Logan would be pretty potent. Now you just need your starter to give you six innings.

      Here’s what you have to explore: What does Boras/Soriano want from this situation? A long term “cash-out” type of deal? 3-4 years of closer money? That might make sense as Mariano insurance both for now and the future. But I think with giving up the draft pick as well, that’s a lot of risk to assume. But maybe there is another way to go. Soriano’s market value both last year and this year was hurt by the fact that he is a Type A free agent. If it is allowed, maybe an arrangement can be made regarding arbitration. Offer a one or two year deal with closer money, and Soriano agrees not to accept arbitration, so the Yankees can recover the draft pick. Or offer a one year deal with less money, and a guarantee that Soriano won’t be offered arbitration, and therefore be in a better position to cash out next year.

  19. Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

    I’m not one to be critical of Cashman, but it does seem that we are somehow a little bit slow on the uptake this offseason…just a little bit behind another team on every player.

    I think the problem is that Cashman has learned to really hate giving serious money to players he doesn’t absolutely love. And while I support that attitude, we do have a large amount of money to throw around, and there are serious needs…Cashman might have to learn to bite the bullet a bit more when it comes to aggressively signing players who may carry some considerable risk. I think he still feels burned by the Burnett signing and the ARod extension.

    • MJ says:

      “Cashman might have to learn to bite the bullet a bit more when it comes to aggressively signing players who may carry some considerable risk.”
      ———
      Just wondering, but who did you mean? Cliff Lee picked another team, despite Cashman’s offer. I don’t get the impression that the Yankees were serious about Crawford. Who did they miss on (besides Jenks, perhaps) that Cashman should’ve been more aggressive with?

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        Well, not too many players, certainly not Crawford…but Jenks definitely comes to mind, as does Downs, as does potentially Soriano. I also think that, while Cashman can in no way be blamed for Lee, he definitely did not love Lee as he did Sabathia. He saw a lot more long-term risk there, and I think his pursuit of Lee, legitimate and serious as it was, lacked a certain aggressiveness and “will-not-be-beaten” spirit that we’ve seen in some other player pursuits. Obviously Lee had his heart set elsewhere, and it may not have mattered, but I do think its fair to say Cashman did not go quite as hard as he potentially could have.

        • Steve H says:

          You offer a 32 year old pitcher a 7 year/$161 million contract you can never be accused of not being aggressive.

        • toad says:

          Do you disagree with the idea that there is a lot more risk with Lee than with Sabathia?

          If you agree with it, what’s the complaint?

          • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

            More risk doesn’t mean not worth it. The fact that they were willing to offer the money that they did shows that they were willing to take the risk. The additional money needed to sign him was marginal compared to the money you were already committed to spending. If you’re taking on the risk, why not go all the way?

    • Steve H says:

      but it does seem that we are somehow a little bit slow on the uptake this offseason

      I think “seem” is the key word. We really don’t know. We know they were interested in Jenks and presumably spoke to him. Jenks went elsewhere. They were interested in Choate and presumably spoke to him. Choate went elsewhere. There is only so much Cashman can do, but I’m sure he’s not missing out on the Hot Stove Season because he’s “a little behind.”

      I am sure Cashman is fully engaged and not behind anything here. There is no point in spending the “extra” cash he has from not signing Lee. Lee was a special case, a collection of overpaid relievers that are not special and not worth burning thru the Lee money.

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        I think your second paragraph points to the attitude I’m talking about. Soriano, Jenks, Downs, and others might be overpaid, and they might not be “special” in a Mariano/Broxton type way, but they are among the best relievers in the league, they would represent a considerable upgrade of our pitching depth and talent, and they are available. I would love to spend the money on a truly “special” player, but he’s not out there right now, and no one in particular seems to be looming on the horizon. I understand the reluctance to get excited about or spend on volatile relief pitching, but that may be the best route we have to improving ourselves right now. The fact that it may not be the greatest investment in the world doesn’t mean it’s not worth the risk. That’s what I mean about Cashman- not that he is “slow,” but that he has become a bit too risk-conscious. I love his intelligence and caution, and I think he’s a great GM, but I hope he’s not afraid to gamble where needed.

        • Clay Bellinger says:

          Based on the payroll, I don’t think that Cash has any fear of gambling. He just picks his spots.

        • Eric Young says:

          This. 2011 is what we need to focus on. If we’re gonna have a bad SP staff, we need the best bullpen to make sure that when we do have a lead we keep that lead – we can afford very few blown holds in the 6th, 7th & 8th this year. Pick up a SP at the deadline, or bring Andy back for the second half (or both).

          • Clay Bellinger says:

            I agree that the pen should be the focus right now, but they have to be careful not to cut too much into the 2012, 13, etc… payrolls as well.

          • Eric Young says:

            I don’t disagree – but I think Hal needs to increase his payroll budget. This offseason is a pretty strong indication that prices are going up for the very good and the elite.

    • Let’s analyze the players he missed out on, shall we?

      Cliff Lee – made an aggressive pitch, he clearly wanted to go to Philly instead

      Carl Crawford – interest was a bluff, Red Sox offered 40m more than next bidder

      Bobby Jenks – Yankees don’t want to offer more than 1 year for a reliever

      Kerry Wood – No real interest due to price, he got a multi-year deal too

      I mean, how was he “just behind” anyone there? He either made a pitch and didn’t get a bite, or stuck to his guns on not signing relievers to multi-year deals which is silly anyway unless you’re talking about closers.

      I mean, I get what you’re saying, but he did just offer Cliff Lee a 7 year contract and you’re saying he needs to bite the bullet more on being aggressive. What did you want him to do, give him 8 years?

      Say it with me: PATIENCE. The Yankees don’t and shouldn’t make any panic moves right now.

      • Mike HC says:

        The Yanks could have made a better offer for Lee. Our offer was very good, and arguably the best, but it was not even close to the type of “nobody can touch that” offer that many people, including myself, was expecting. I would have made sure I got Lee, but it is not my money.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          “The fact of the matter is, there’s nothing the Yankees could have done differently”

          http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....othin.html

          • Mike HC says:

            They could have offered more money per year. I’m sure the agent is not looking to make enemies after turning the Yanks down after long negotiations. That just seems like generic agent speak to me.

            • Mike Axisa says:

              But the team obviously wasn’t comfortable offering more money. If they were, they would have. Why do something you aren’t comfortable doing?

              • Mike HC says:

                Yea, that is for sure. In my head, I thought the Yanks were really intent on landing Lee no matter what it took. The Yank consistently have to offer a little extra, to a lot extra, to land top guys they want. With Lee, the Phils offered more money per year, but less years and Lee had already played for them. The Yanks offered more years, less money per and would be a completely new team. That leaves the door wide open for Lee to leave. I guess as a fan, I was just a bit surprised the Yanks were not willing to make a clearly better deal than any other team.

                • yankees1717 says:

                  you shouldn’t make ur deal by far the best just for the sake of doing it. if he doesn’t wanna be here, screw him, go there then

          • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

            That may be true Mike, but you have to admit, Lee’s agent does have some incentive to make it seem as if Lee was only ever going to come to the Phillies, stressing the “good guy who had his heart set and didn’t care about the money” angle. Coming out and stating, at his Phillies presser, that he would’ve signed with the Yankees for dollar amount x is not something he’s likely to do in any case, regardless of the truth.

          • Eric Young says:

            That we were pitching money when what the guy wanted was a great clubhouse is my biggest concern.

            Obviously, I have no way of knowing if we made the best pitch for Lee, but I can’t imagine setting up a dinner with Donald Trump was the smartest move for a couple of hicks from Arkansas.

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        I’m with you on Lee and Crawford. But I wouldn’t describe it as a “panic move” to give a good reliever a two-year deal. Someone is giving these players those deals, and it’s not like it’s all the incompetently managed teams- the Sox shelled out the money for Jenks, the Angels for Downs. Teams we compete with are willing to take the risk, but we’re “too good” or “too smart” to do so? If it’s not the right move then fine, but let’s not put ourselves in the position where we’re completely ignoring opportunities to get better because we don’t want to offer an extra year at 6 million.

        • bexarama says:

          I’m definitely pretty damn pleased the Yankees didn’t offer three years and $15M to type-A Scott Downs (the pick which would then directly benefit a team in our own division). I’m disappointed with what happened with Jenks but who knows what went on there.

        • Mike HC says:

          Hopefully we didn’t sign those guys because we are planning on signing Soriano.

        • Steve H says:

          That Downs signing was terrible. The Yankees may have offered Jenks the same or more but he preferred the Sox because he sees a better opportunity to close. Just because the Yankees want a player and offer him a contract, they do not have to sign with the Yankees. I was hoping the Yankee fan entitlement would go away after the Lee signing but it hasn’t. We cannot know what led Jenks to sign with the Sox, but I’m sure he had his reasons.

          • a plethora of pinatas says:

            Jenks signed with Boston so he can continue to wear that ugly roadkill on the end of his chin. It matches the rest of that fugly caveman team.

        • Of all the places to spend money, relievers are the most volatile.

          Don’t forget, the Yankees have constructed a very strong bullpen two (really three) years in a row around the core of Joba/D-Rob/Mariano. If they need to, they can take on a salary dump for a reliever after a few months and not be forced to commit to multiple years or big dollars. It’s not ignoring opportunities to get better, it’s prioritizing your needs and resources.

  20. Mike HC says:

    I hope we get him.

  21. Reggie C. says:

    Jenks and Bard and Papelbon?

    DAMN. The RS really took a step at shortening the game whenever they get leads. Theo is kicking some major ass this offseason.

    • Mike HC says:

      Hopefully Dice K, Beckett and Lackey all blow and/or pitch mediocre, and Bucholz takes a step back. They won’t seem so dangerous if that happens.

      • FIPster Doofus says:

        Dice-K’s suckage is a foregone conclusion. Lackey is what he is at this point – an innings eater who will put up an ERA in the 4s with peripherals somewhere in that neighborhood. Buchholz, IMO, is guaranteed to take a step back (he’ll still be good, but not as good). Finally, Beckett is the wild card of the bunch. He had three straight years of at least 5.1 fWAR before last season. So, is he that guy or the flaming bag of crap we saw in 2010? Let’s hope the latter.

    • JGS says:

      Worth noting that Jenks and Papelbon combined for a 4.14 ERA in 119.2 innings last year. Both are solid pitchers, both are gloriously combustible.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      Theo is kicking some major ass this offseason.

      Is the off season a competition unto itself, or is it, you know, just preparation for the real season?

      And does the off season end when Theo is done making moves, or does it continue until Opening Day?

  22. Reggie C. says:

    Another signing that will not cost Theo any draft picks. Cashman can’t “return fire” in this case by signing Soriano. That 1st round pick we lose in signing Soriano could be very valuable if a Gerrit Cole-level talent drops to 31 and is selected by a Rays team.

  23. Teh Comp Pick says:

    Doubtful. Where was Cashman when Jenks was getting signed? This offseason keeps getting worse

  24. Hughesus Christo says:

    Maybe trashing Jeter in the press is turning some of these FAs off.

    /grenadelob’d

  25. It'sATrap says:

    Patience…it’s not working…

    • Clay Bellinger says:

      How would you know? You obviously don’t have any.

    • Yeah, God, it’s been a WEEK, FUCK PATIENCE

    • Tony says:

      hahaha I am def. on the ledge.
      Seriously though I am the last Yankee fan to ever panic but there is a point..

      what really bothers me is we have plenty of money and resources to trade but…there really are not (at least at this time) alot to look forward to as far as player availablitiy.

      The free agents for 2012 & 2013 are not game changers..
      Teams have really been locking up players to reasonable extensions to counter big market teams such as us to just buying them. We are also a win now team (based on our age)

      I know championships are not won in Dec. and you have to play the games..but from a logical standpoint we are in trouble.
      Even if we sign Soriano (which I am not confident we will)
      or Trade for ???. It is not like we will wake up 2morow and Have King Felix or Josh Johnson..

      The person who said Cashman was slow/behind this year is right.
      Yes we lost Lee and never wanted Crawford..(but dont believe for a second he would not have signed Crawford if he was available after we lost Lee)
      Then he doesnt like to sign relievers to long term big money deals..ok so we lose out on Wood / Jenks..It seems to me that Cashman is trying to prove a point that the Yankees wont be bullied into bad deasl & dont have to spend big to win…good luck with that Brian..

  26. Andrew Brotherton says:

    How are the Red Sox better? We just added a better catcher along with the top hitting prospect in the minors, our bullpen was a strength last year and we lost only Kerry Wood from it, I’m not seeing how we somehow got worse? Also the Red Sox how did they drastically improve? Papelbom has been garbage for the past few years, Jenks wasn’t resigned by the White Sox? Bard is good but oh well? Also they just overpaid drastically for Carl Crawford who they pay more for than we pay for basically our entire outfield.

    • jsbrendog (returns) says:

      and i’ll bet a shiny silver nickel that youkilis’s body can’t handle the grind at 3rd and he spends at least one maybe 2 or 3 stints on the DL.

      scutaro regresses, pedroia is a wildcard coming off an injury, their catching tandem BLOWS, jd drew is made of glass (although he is really good, how the hell can boston fans still hate him??!)

      lackey blows, dicek blows…im not worried

    • Poopy Pants says:

      LOL!

  27. hello9 says:

    Mike needs to stop explicitly stating who he prefers because they seem to come off the board almost immediately (Choate, Jenks). Or he needs to start pushing a ‘I hope the yanks get Pavano’ post.

  28. jsbrendog (returns) says:

    this whole comment thread gets a giant oaktag

    \grumpy old man’d

    \\at least i have some patience

    \\\god damn’d young’uns

  29. theyankeewarrior says:

    Patience is fine.

    Not giving out 2 yr deals to guys who are the size of NFL linemen and could fall apart at any time is fine.

    But missing out on the entire FA class this off season is not fine. (Assuming we’re still trying to win the WS)

    So I will be waiting patiently for the following to happen:

    1) Sign Andy

    2) Trade for a legitimate #3/4 starter (Carmona, Buehrle? idk but I’m assuming Cashman has a plan)

    3) Acquire 1-2 pen pieces to go along with Mo, Joba, Drob and Logan

    4) Signing a RH bat as out 4th of

    Again, patience is fine, but at some point we need to start spending money and/or prospects to fill holes. If not, we’ll be waiting patiently for 2012.

    • Mike HC says:

      I’m on board with this plan.

    • Eric Young says:

      We’re in better position to win in ’11 than in either ’12 or ’13. In ’12 & ’13, Andy’s gone, A-Rod and Jeet are bad (or terrible), Mo is gone or about to be bad and FA market is weak.

      We’ve got $180M invested right now in 2011…we should do what it takes money-wise – not necessarily prospect-wise – to get us to WS in 2011.

  30. yankees1717 says:

    so, the attitude of the people on this thread.
    OMGGG CASH IS TEH SUXOR HE NEEDED TO OFFER LEE 8-200 ZOMG WHO CARES IF HE DOESN’T WANNA COME HERE!!! AND NO CRAWFORD EITHER EVEN THOUGH WE ALREADY HAVE AN OF!! RED SOX HAVE A RELIEVER WHO HAD A 4.4 ERA LAST YEAR!! AAHHH DOOM IS COMING
    and you know what else bothers me?
    OMG CASH SHOULD’VE SIGNED DOWNS TO 3/15 AND JENKS TO 2/12 EVEN THOUGH IT’S A TERRIBLE IDEA TO GIVE OUT BIG RELIEVER CONTRACTS!! WE NEED TO MAKE MOVES JUST TO MAKE MOVES!!

    seriously, you people just wanna make moves to make moves.

    • Mike HC says:

      Yea, the nerve of fans to want their team to sign good free agents. What imbeciles.

    • Zack says:

      seriously, you people just wanna make moves to make moves.

      This. If Cashman gave Jenks 12m, the moment Theo signs Reliever X in February for 1m it would be “Cashman has no patience! Overpay! Sux!”

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      “seriously, you people just wanna make moves to make moves.”

      I think ppl just want to see the team improve. Right now it seems like the team is grabbing at straws after missing out on Lee. It’s not his fault that Lee isn’t here but the Yankees need to make improvements to the team.

    • Steve H says:

      All kinds of this.

    • bexarama says:

      The thing is, if Cashman signed Jenks, we’d hear about how he’s a fat dude with a high ERA and snarky comments like “take THAT, Phillies” from the same people who are now whining about doing nothing.

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        You can’t always play down to the lowest common denominator…of course some people will complain. Some people always do. Not everyone who wanted the Yanks to sign Jenks or Soriano is a whiny ignorant fair-weather fan…some people actually just think it would be a good move.

    • Jerome S. says:

      what do you mean, you people?

  31. Yank the Frank says:

    By getting Jenks the Red Sox payroll is now higher than the Yankees acciording to MLBTR. Those pennant buying bastards!!

  32. ike says:

    just saw that cubs signed kerry wood for 1yr $15 million. That cannot be true!!

  33. A.D. says:

    Yanks don’t actually need to add major bullpen pieces, they have Mo, Joba, Robertson and Logan as main pieces, and have guys like Mitchell and Phelps which could probably move there if needed. Thus no real reason to overpay FA in years and dollars

  34. Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw says:

    #Yankees not on Soriano. Hate prices set-up guys such Wood, Crain, etc, certainly not anxious to pay elite closer $ to Soriano to set-up- Joel Sherman via Twitter.

    dodged a bullet.

  35. GermanYankee says:

    Cubs agreed to sign Kerry Wood for 1/$1.5MM. Seriously? Has to be a typo, right? Can’t believe the Yanks wouldn’t have offered more.

  36. Eric Young says:

    None of the writers I follow are tweeting it (MLBTR has reposted the Sun-Times story). This would be insane. I can see Lee leaving some on the table when he’s getting $100M+, but the diff between 6 or 10 million and 1.5? That’s a decent condo at best.

  37. ike says:

    insane! now we are gonna overpay for soriano and lose a pick because hes a type A free agent

    • GermanYankee says:

      I don’t think so. We don’t have a big need for Soriano and if the bullpen sucks we’ll be able to get good relievers in July. I really don’t worry about the bullpen.

  38. RL says:

    With the Jenks signing, Boston now has a higher payroll than the Yankees. We’re a small market team!!

    Disappointed that Soriano is being discussed. If it’s a 2 year deal, I’m O.K. with it, kinda an audition for the next couple of years. 3 or 4 years worry me …

  39. mustang says:

    If Woods sign for 1.5 their got to be something big coming down the line I hope.

    • Eric Young says:

      He’s got to pass a physical. I guess he’s lucky he doesn’t have to pass a mental.

      • CS Yankee says:

        IETC

        I’m sure the Yanks would of went 1/4M$ or higher.

        I understand not taking 3.5 from the ChiSox (guy has to have standards), but another chance to get a ring, hang with Mo, and get more coin?

        Isn’t it strange that whenever Hank says anything, bad karma ensues for like several months?

  40. The Zack says:

    Has Fiensand been right on anything lately?

  41. Blaise says:

    Dudes are spurning the Yanks left and right…wtf

  42. mustang says:

    Woods gone, Jenks gone, don’t like Soriano.

    is there a mystery player that we don’t know about?

  43. Reggie C. says:

    Cashman is like the frog in water. The water’s getting warmer, yet he simply doesn’t notice it. PATIENCE!

  44. bonestock94 says:

    Good! Save the first round pick, it has the potential to be much more interesting than a mercenary middle reliever.

  45. Mark L says:

    I know Cashman said patience is his plan but the market is going to wait for him — relievers are flying off the shelves right now — time to actually spend some money Brian.

    • mustang says:

      Agree!

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      Yep.

      Panicking and over spending for mediocre relievers. That’s a winning combination.

    • Eric Young says:

      He also said he’s the officer in charge of spending. He’s really sucking at that right now.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        Are you complaining about Brian Cashman’s ability to (not) spend money? Have you watched any of the offseason’s since he’s taken over? Spending has never been an issue.

      • AndrewYF says:

        I guess your solution would be to spend $5M on Webb, $2M on Wang, $10M on Soriano? That would probably make you happy.

        Fortunately, what makes you happy does not really coincide with what makes the team better.

    • Joe D. says:

      “…relievers are flying off the shelves right now…”

      Just because the store is running out of canned “Gum ‘N Nuts” doesn’t mean it’s a good buy.

      Downs and Jenks are decently above average relievers. That’s all they are. They pitch 40-50 innings per year. Thank God Cashman is not chasing these guys down and offering them multiyear deals.

      We tried on Wood. The offer he accepted made it obvious he wanted to return to the Cubs. The Yankees didn’t stand a chance.

      Let relievers fly off the shelves. Year after year, in hindsight, the worst players to throw money at are relief pitchers. This is not coincidence; that’s the nature of the beast.

  46. mustang says:

    ” Wang’s base salary is $1MM, Rosenthal tweets, but the contract could be worth as much as $5MM in incentives.”

    AND

    ” Alan Nero worked out a $2MM deal between Wang and the Nationals last offseason”

    So the National have paid Wang 3 million !

    The world has gone mad.

  47. Joe D. says:

    Generally speaking, the Yankees have been most successful when using their financial might to pluck the absolute best-of-the-best available players, whether via free agency or trade. Giambi, Bernie, Mussina, Sabathia, Mariano, A-Rod, Posada, Teixiera, Knoblauch etc.

    When the big-ticket doesn’t bite, or simply isn’t there in the marketplace to begin with…that’s when you get a Womack, Pavano, Jaret Wright offseason.

    Cliff Lee didn’t bite. That’s a shame, but it doesn’t mean out Plan B should be to immediately disperse the “Cliff Lee earmarked” funds to a host of half-ass SPs and volatile injury-risk relievers who want more years than they should get.

    Thankfully, Cashman’s not the knee-jerk type some commenters seem to be.

    There is no need to overpay for second-rate players in order to compensate for not getting the first-rate guy you were after. Not only is there no need for it, but that sort of thing actively screws your team up in both the short- and long-term.

    Chill. Ninja Cash is on the case. The dude who traded peanuts for Bobby Abreu and a scrub for Nick Swisher. Who — the last couple of years — has built better bullpens then we are used to by spending *less* money, not more.
    He spun two fungible relievers, a 4th/5th OFer and a lottery ticket into a guy who was a Cy Young candidate (Javy Vaz) the previous season. Yeah, I know it didn’t work out. But I make the trade 10 times out of 10.
    When Cash has been left alone to do his thing, he has done a great job. So, I’m gonna leave him alone to do his thing and see what happens. He’s earned the trust.
    Doesn’t mean I won’t comment and perhaps criticize when the moves come.
    But it does mean the doom and gloom nonsense is seriously overplayed and more likely just flat-out ignorant.

    • Totes McGotes says:

      Thank you for using common sense.

    • Eric Young says:

      But it does mean the doom and gloom nonsense is seriously overplayed and more likely just flat-out ignorant.

      It’s not necessarily gloom-and-doom. What else are we gonna talk about?

    • Mark L says:

      Cashman is at his best when he flexes the organization’s financial muscle. Going cheap on the bullpen just seems silly when he was about to give Lee $23 million per season. If he doesn’t like the free agent market, he should make a trade. We have tons of prospect depth. Unfortunately, as evidenced by the Danny Haren debacle, he may have fallen too deep in love with our prospects.

      • CS Yankee says:

        …or he is saving his bullets for another day.

        Hope that day is coming over the next six months, but we’ll be alright either way.

      • Joe D. says:

        Cliff Lee is an elite, top-notch, shutdown #1 starting pitcher from whom we can reasonably expect 210 – 230 sub-3.50 ERA innings next season.

        The relievers under discussion, by and large, can’t promise that kind of production in even the 50-65 innings they’ll pitch. And those innings won’t be super-high leverage, because that’s Mo’s territory.

        As for going cheap on the bullpen — that strategy the last few seasons has resulted in the best bullpens the Yankees have put out in the 2000′s.

      • toad says:

        Or he may realize that right now is a bad time to try to make a trade because all the other GM’s think the Yankees are desperate and can be taken.

        The Yankee advantage is money, and that comes into play mid-season. All they can do now is try to bring Pettite back, sign a few cheap long shots, and wait. That’s what Cashman is doing.

    • CS Yankee says:

      Yep,

      Even if Ninja doesn’t sign squat and the team heads into the season around 180M$, he would likely drop 20-30 when the time for most underachievers sell (late-June).

      I just hopes he stays with Montero. If his power translates to MLB pitching, we could be enjoying this over the next decade plus even if his role is defined as 100 @ DH/50 @ C.

  48. Mark L says:

    Yes, overpaying for good but flawed relievers isn’t ideal but it is better than being left standing when the music stops. Our bullpen right now includes Sergio Mitre, Romulo Sanchez, Robert Fish and Steve Garrison.

    Cashman is notoriously bad at signing relief pitchers because he never wants to pay market price. “Bargains” like Chan Ho Park, LaTroy Hawkins and Ron Villone were largely useless.

    Perhaps he is worried he’ll get another Steve Karsay or Kyle Farnsworth, but by doing nothing he is taking away our options and leverage. Bite the bullet and sign someone like Wheeler, Fuentes or Rauch – for no other reason than it is better than what we have. If it doesn’t work out, dump the guy. We have that luxury.

    • pete says:

      yeah, our bullpen as it currently stands sucks…

      wait, what?

      • Mark L says:

        A bullpen of Mariano, Robertson, Joba, Logan and Mitre isn’t sufficient – especially given that Logan and Mitre are poor bets to repeat their strong 2010 numbers.

        • CS Yankee says:

          Don’t overlook Albie, Nova and the other young guns that almost always move up around mid-season from the farm.

        • pete says:

          Eh I disagree. It’s the same thing as with the rotation. People seem to think you need two aces and three #2s to have a decent rotation, or six great pitchers in the bullpen to have a decent bullpen. That’s just not true. A bullpen of Mariano, Roberston, Joba, Logan, and Mitre, and helmed by Girardi would probably be one of the top 8 pens in the game, and that’s if Logan does regress. If not, it’ll be in the top 3.

        • AndrewYF says:

          “A bullpen of Mariano, Robertson, Joba, Logan and Mitre isn’t sufficient”

          Um, sure it is. And hopefully, they can avoid signing a Chan Ho Suck-type pitcher this year, and slot younger, higher-upside guys from the minors in their place.

          They had one of the best bullpens in the AL last year. Not much has changed.

          • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

            Relievers are volatile though, which everyone seems to be stressing as a reason why you shouldn’t sign prominent ones. Yet you can make just as strong an argument that what worked last year won’t this year. Remember when we thought our bullpen stalwarts would be Jose Veras and Edwar Ramirez? I don’t think Robertson, Joba, and especially Logan are at the point where we can say there is almost no risk of them regressing.

    • CS Yankee says:

      Fuentes wants 3/15…he isn’t worth half of half of that.(3/3.75M$)

      If the Yankees spend those dollars, a 2/15 to Soriano would make far more sense.

  49. Another Bronx Dynasty says:

    Offseasons like this that I really miss the leadership & roar of The Boss.
    Do you think Lee would have gotten away if George was say George of Dynasty yrs.
    Hell no or Cash would have been in charge of the concession stands & overseeing the parking garage.

    We have been spoiled by having had such a passionate owner for almosy 1/2 a decade.

  50. Xstar7 says:

    They sign him. He sucks. They use their remaining 51st pick on Dante Bichette Jr.

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