Open Thread: Andy Phillips

Food For Thought: Curtis Granderson
Brewers Acquire Zack Greinke
(AP Photo/LM Otero)

You guys remember Andy Phillips, right? He was the quintessential AAAA player, destroying Triple-A (.371 wOBA in over 1,800 plate appearances) but getting overmatched in the big leagues (.293 wOBA in 604 plate appearances). I can’t even come up with a signature Andy Phillips moment, can you? All I know is that after the Yankees released him in 2007 he bounced from the Reds to the Mets to the Pirates to the White Sox to the Hiroshima Carp before signing with the Rakuten Golden Eagles for the 2010 season. Phillips hit .198/.283/.296 in 92 plate appearances this year, so who knows what his next move is. Whatever it is, I wish him luck.

Anyway, here is tonight’s open thread. The Rangers already lost, but the Isles, Devils, and Knicks are all in action tonight. I’m sure there’s some college something or other on as well. The thread’s yours, treat it as you wish.

email
Food For Thought: Curtis Granderson
Brewers Acquire Zack Greinke
  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    The clearly inferior Andy P.

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      Did Andy Pettitte bang a porn star? No? Ok then. He is inferior to this one.

      • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

        Pat Burrell sez hai

  • Evan

    I guess his signature moment would have to be this: http://www.baseball-reference......9260.shtml First PA, first pitch HR. The only other thing I remember was when he struck out five times in one game against Tampa Bay.

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    Didn’t someone try to impersonate Andy Phillips and do stuff with a porn star?

  • Eddy

    My favorite moment from Andy Phillips is from May 20th, 2006. He got the game winning hit in the 11th inning after the Yankees scored 4 in the ninth against the Mets. Only remember that because I was there!

    • YankeesJunkie

      Yeah that is the game that I remember from Phillips, I thought he was the one that beat out throw to first too tie the game in the ninth but that Damon. Phillips was never good in the majors, but his mom had cancer and he had a few tough breaks, but playing in the majors let alone the Yankees is a dream that the rest of us will not live.

      • randym77

        It was his wife that had cancer. Pregnancy-related, but she’s fine now, and they have a daughter, Isaiah Jewel.

        His mother was in a car accident; her car was t-boned by an 18-wheeler. Andy lost his spot on the roster to Josh Phelps because he left the team to be with his mom.

        He really did have terrible luck. After winning back his roster spot, he was HBP on his wrist. Broken hamate, IIRC – an injury that saps your power for a year. He’d been playing well before then, and was surprised when the Yanks nontendered him.

        Never mind the porn star thing. I mean, accused of impersonating Carl Pavano, of all people.

  • Granderslam

    So what does everyone think about Nolasco as a possibility for the rotation? Yay or Nay? I was thinking that if it’s possible, it would be great to obtain both Nolasco and Leo Nunez in a package, barring any significant demand of course.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      I think I’d only be interested if he’s really cheap… he’s one of those guys who seems to always underperform their peripherals by quite a bit. One year is a fluke but he’s been doing this for a few years now, so I am wary. I feel like coming to the AL East cannot help him either, obviously.

      • Granderslam

        I agree. I would like to obtain someone reliable who can easily fit in the #2 hole, but the trade market seems so thin in that aspect. I wonder if Andy returns, would Cash be looking to fill the spot behind CC still or focus more on a #5. I personally think the #2 rotation spot needs to be filled no matter what. It is just a matter of who can fill that void.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Facing powerhitters like Evan Longoria, Adrian Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Jose Bautista, on a regular basis isn’t going to help his HR issues. Oddly enough, he gets most of his grounders against LHH and RHH do the most damage against him. Weird. So perhaps that will alleviate a few of the issues The Stadium presents. I wouldn’t consider dealing a prospect better or equal Romine for him. I know that’s a typical homer take on this, but Nolasco’s HR issues make him an awful fit for the team.

      • pete

        Javy-lite?

  • YankeesJunkie

    There are a couple things that scare me about Nolasco and that is durability and HR rate. His HR/FB percentage is over 10 at Florida cannot get better at Yankee Stadium and he has only surpassed 200 IP in one of the last three years. However, Nolasco has the peripherals to be a solid pitcher in the AL East.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    lol. I almost never read WW any more because uh what is the point but I found this:

    http://waswatching.com/2009/06.....man-curse/

    He really wants the Yankees to fail so he can be right about Cashman’s eternal suckitude, doesn’t he?

    • China Joe

      WW is a facinating window into an alternate universe that only Yankees fans can enter, where you can virulently despise your team’s GM even on the heels of two straight LCS appearances.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        WW is a facinating window into an alternate universe that only Yankees fans can enter, where you can virulently despise your team’s GM even on the heels of two straight LCS appearances.

        ftfy

        (Not trying to be rude, since I know some people find this pretty rude… wasn’t trying to be so.)

      • Avi

        I think Cashman is a pretty poor GM. It’s pretty clear he’s made more bad decisions than good ones especially in regard to the pitching rotation, over the last ten years. The fact he’s NEVER criticized by the overly critical NY media (just ask arod), amazes me.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          The fact he’s NEVER criticized by the overly critical NY media

          you have to be kidding me

          • Avi

            I don’t see or hear him criticized anywhere. His only criticism comes from crazies like me in the blogosphere.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

              He gets criticized quite often. Not to the extent of A-Rod or Girardi but a lot. And he certainly never gets ~!!!!!MASTERSTROKE!!!!! articles written about him like the media writes for Theo; no one claimed his 2008-2009 offseason was great, it was just “they tossed money at those guys.”

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Every single GM makes pitching mistakes. Every last one. Cashman just makes more because he’s been on the job longer.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            WHAT ABOUT THEO!!!?!?!!??!?!??!?!!?!??!?!?!?!

          • Avi

            Since ’00 and ’01 we haven’t had one really strong pitching rotation. While we’ve had Rolls Royce offenses scoring 900 and even 1,000 runs Cashman has failed to put together strong rotations despite many attempts. He’s literally burnt HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars on bad pitching contracts such as Kei Igawa, Jaret Wright, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, AJ Burnett, Carl Pavano and Vazquez twice. These are all moves that I amongst others second guessed (in ’04 Vazquez seemed like a decent acquisition but I felt strongly they should’ve gone after Schilling instead of him: I even called FAN to voice my opinion on this only to have the host Steve Summers disagree saying Vazquez was the better option due to his age. I called him after ’04 to rub it in his face).
            Just last year he spent $20M without improving the team at all (Vazquez, Nick Johnson, Winn/Chan Ho, again all moves I HATED). Had he brought in just one competent starter instead of Vazquez who was already a massive disappointment as a yank, he would’ve improved their chances of winning another championship exponentially.
            Other than trading for Nick Swisher I don’t see one acquisition you can point to that you say, wow this is a smart guy.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              A-Rod? David Justice? Not trading for Santana?

              • Avi

                I give him credit for A-rod. Justice was a perfect fit. I don’t know how he would know Johan would get hurt, I was livid the Yanks refused to give Kennedy or Hughes for him. The Mets are cursed (Beltran, Bay, Roberto Alomar even K-rod)so who knows how Johan turns out as a Yank. But you pick good one Mike, no question. The bad decisions far outweigh the good ones though.

                • It’sATrap

                  i’d like to see you list of good and bad deals made by cashman. i feel like there is some selection bias here.

                  • Avi

                    Well I listed the bad ones (most of them anyway), Mike listed the good ones, now you decide.

                • Rob NY

                  Because Johan’s velocity was down and he had all but shelved his slider to avoid the stress on his elbow? That non-trade was amazing and I was elated we didn’t include Hughes or IPK just to “get it done.”

                  • Avi

                    I wasn’t aware he “had shelved his slider”. Is this true, can you substantiate it?

                    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                      Fangraphs has his last four years in Minnesota as: 19%-16.9%-16.5%-11.16%

                    • Rob NY

                      Well I overstated the drop in his use of the slider but he did use it over 5% less his last year as a twin. His HRs were up ERA Was up gb% down etc. My main point was Cash likely looked at the data and had discussions with his scouts and recognized a big risk. One that I’m glad he didn’t take.

                      The pitch info is all available on fangraphs.

            • Gonzo

              IIRC, the Yanks wanted Schilling, but the GM or owner wanted much more from George than anyone else. They wanted so much from the Yanks in the trade that everyone knew it was much more than just business.

              • Avi

                It seemed the Yanks liked Vazquez over Schilling which was foolish to me given Schilling’s level of dominance (much higher K rate than Vazquez) and postseason success. It was pretty clear watching Schilling that he was a premier competitor. The Yanks gave far more for Vazquez (Nick Johnson, Juan RIvera and I think Randy Choate) than what Boston gave for Schilling (Casey Flotsam, I mean Fossum and Jorge De La Rosa who wasn’t near the prospect Johnson or even Rivera was at the time). Also giving Vazquez a 4 year $45M contract coming from Montreal before throwing a pitch for the Yanks bothered me. A contract they later had to eat part of unload (in the Randy Johnson deal).

                • It’sATrap

                  give guys an extension after a trade in the offseason is pretty much usually a given. Blaming cashman for that is stupid. Plus the fact another team likes X team’s prospects over Y’s prospects is no fault of the Y team. Ex: Mariners taking Smoak over montero for Lee. It’s not like Cashman didn’t try.

                  • Avi

                    I have a hard time believing Arizona preferred Fossum and De La Rosa to Nick Johnson and Rivera. Nick Johnson was a top 10 prospect at the time (maybe top 5) and Juan Rivera was ranked ahead of De La Rosa. Smoak and Montero is at least debatable, especially considering Jesus was batting about .240 with no power at the time of the Lee trade.
                    Also when else have the Yankees given an contract extension to a guy before hitting free agency (excluding guys like Cano who have played for them)?

                    • Gonzo

                      Read below, they wanted Fonsy too. Just a point of having two seperate prices. One for the Yanks and one for everyone else.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

                      The higher price demanded for Schilling came as a result of the Yankees stealing away David Wells after he already had a handshake deal with Arizona.

                    • Gonzo

                      I linked it below. The Jerry Colangelo v. George Steinbrenner fued goes deeper than that even.

                      I don’t think Avi is going to give up though.

                • Gonzo

                  Sounds to me you are revising history. Yanks wanted Schilling. They had to move to Javy because of demands.

                  http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....A9659C8B63

                  http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....fan-22620/

                  I hope this doesn’t mess with your narrative though.

                  • Avi

                    Meh. Just because a team asks for a certain package at a certain point doesn’t mean they won’t take a whole lot less eventually (every trade discussion goes like this). It’s possible Arizona was pissed at the Yanks and would never have trade him here. But again, I have a hard time believing they wouldn’t take Johnson (ranked #10 and #13 by in Baseball America’s top 100 prior to ’01 and ’02) and Rivera (ranked #55 prior to ’03) over Fossum and De La Rosa (neither of which ranked in the top 100 at all).

  • randym77

    I guess I’d have to go with his first at-bat, where he hit a home run. (He almost became the first player to hit a home run in his first at-bat in both MLB and NPB. He hit a home run in his first game in Japan, but I think it was his second at-bat, not the first.)

    Andy spent most of last season on the Japanese equivalent of the DL and the minors. He had a knee injury, I think.

    He reportedly really likes it in Japan. Dunno if any Japanese team will give him another shot. He hit pretty well when he was healthy, though. .265 / .500 / .339, with 15 home runs in 2009 (in half a season with the Carp). (The Japanese media apparently found him good-looking. They called him a “foreign player studmuffin” and argued about whether he looked more like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt.)

    Aaron Guiel has stuck with Tokyo Swallows. He was their power hitter last season, with 16 home runs.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      The Japanese media apparently found him good-looking. They called him a “foreign player studmuffin” and argued about whether he looked more like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt

      In like… yeah, it had to be 2007, there was this whole area of the internet full of some female Yankee fans and they just loooooooved him. Thought he was the hottest thing ever, thought he wasn’t getting treated like the great player he was. Very very weird.

      • randym77

        Hey, what’s not to like? ;-)

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          awww that’s very cute.

          Still, as I said – the clearly inferior Andy P. ;)

          • pete

            …that’s….cute?

  • AJ

    So how about that congress passing the overturn of don’t ask don’t tell….God I miss baseball…

    • pete

      ’bout frickin time

  • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

    Fun fact: Andy Phillips and I share the same birthday.

    • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

      He, of course, is twelve years older than I.

  • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

    I remember Torre skewered by the internet fans for not playing Phillips more. Than he played Andy alot and it was awful.

    • whozat

      by internet fans who also loved bubba crosby? Or internet fans who actually think about the game?

      • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

        Internet fans who were sure that Phillips AAA numbers would eventually lead to him learning how to hit a major league breaking ball.

      • I Voted 4 Kodos

        I’m convinced that if Bubba Crosby went by his real name and not by Bubba, no one would have given a shit about him.

  • AJ

    Why does everyone hate Brian Fuentes so much?

    • whozat

      So they hate him, or just not really want to sign him? I think he still has an elite rep among some fans, but hasn’t really performed up to that in the last few years.

    • China Joe

      He shot my dog.

    • Mattchu12

      I’d take him in a heart beat, well, would have before the Feliciano signing. No use in having two LOOGY’s. He was my top left handed reliever target.

      • Mattchu12

        Two LOOGY’s plus Boone Logan I mean.

      • whozat

        was he type a?

        • Mattchu12

          Fuentes was a Type B, and wasn’t offered arbitration. But his contract demands are pretty high, asking for three years and five million per, same deal as Scott Downs.

    • Dave

      I don’t hate on him. But this was a guy that kept losing his job to Manny Corpas. Then went to Anaheim and showed the Mets how overrated K-Rod was by saving 48 games after Frankie parlayed his 60 saves into a ridunculous contract for a closer. He was 1-5 that year with an atrocious ERA for a closer. For what he was in Minny, I’d take him. But not for more than 1 year or over $2M.

      • AJ

        1 year / 2M really? That’s ridiculous.

        • candyforstalin

          2009 – 1.0 bwar, 0.3 fwar
          2010 – 1.2 bwar, 0.4 fwar

          1/2m sounds about right.

  • Basil

    Signature Andy Phillips moment: (actually involved both Andy Ps)
    a few years ago, i’m pretty sure it was when the indians were good, so maybe 2007? Anyway, I believe it was Sizemore on first base back when he was a constant threat to steal and like TEH GREATEST CF EVURRR, Phillips and Pettitte had this play where Phillips wasn’t holding the runner on w/ a runner also on 2nd, then he snuck up behind Sizemore and Pettitte absolutely caught Sizemore napping, and it was epic. More of a pettitte moment, but it was still good fun.

  • pat

    Why did the Magic trade Rashard Lewis for Gilbert Arenas?

    • Esteban

      Well, earlier in the day, they had traded for Turkoglu and J Richardson earlier in the day, so Lewis was expendable and I guess they figured he was an upgrade over their other guard options.

  • pat

    Hindsight is 20/20 but it now looks like offering Wood arbitration would have been a good idea. Oh well.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      There was no way to know that he’d take that little money to go to Chicago. He was due for a pretty big payday if it went to arbitration.

      • Avi

        Yeah, He would’ve made over $11M in arbitration. I wonder if they offered him a contract. 2 years $6M total would’ve been reasonable. Would be nice to know the Yanks offered something like that and he still chose Chicago.

        • whozat

          http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....3046588418

          They would have offered 2/10

          • Avi

            Wow. He left a lot on the table. This off-season sucks. Lee, Wood and the poor Feliciano contract (my opinion) combined with Adrian and Crawford to Boston.. Ert. Plus although Martin is an upgrade over Cervelli (he can actually reach second base on a fly) he’s basically an expensive version of Chad Moeller if he doesn’t improve on his hitting from the last two years.

            • whozat

              Yeah, he could have had 2MM more just across town, and he even left THAT on the table to play with the Cubs.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      and Berkman, Damon, Matsui, Abreu, etc… yeah, it sucks!

      • Avi

        There’s no way the Yankees could’ve offered arbitration to any of those guys. ALL those guys would’ve have accepted and the Yanks would have been on the hook for far larger contracts then they all eventually wound up getting.

  • cranky

    Will Brandon Laird be the new Andy Phillips?

    • whozat

      a) his defense won’t be as good as Phillips, and
      b) Laird got to AAA three years younger than Phillips, so it seems odd to try to manufacture this comparison at this stage.

  • Tyme

    I’ve been kinda middle of the road with regards to acquiring greinke but after reading Joe Posnanskis article on him I think I’m starting to warm up to that idea..

    http://joeposnanski.blogspot.c.....einke.html

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Meh…I think he’d end up costing too much. I wouldn’t deal Montero for him, and that’s likely what it’d cost.

      • FIPster Doofus

        I would.

        • Mr. Jesus

          Me too. In a heartbeat.

          • Gonzo

            Me 3.

            • Avi

              I wouldn’t. I’d rather give Betances and Brackman than give Jesus. The Yanks have plenty of talent to get a deal for Greinke done without giving up Montero.

              • Gonzo

                If you could give up less, that is always better.

  • All Star Carl

    Don’t know if you all remember this. Back in 2007 when A-Rod hit a walk off home run against the Indians, Andy Phillips hit a 2 out solo home run to keep the rally going.

  • Sal

    Cashman better sign either Soriano or Fuentes.

    • candyforstalin

      tell them, sal.

      • Sal

        We are getting our asses kicked by the Red Sox this off season.

        • Gonzo

          What are the Powerball #’s for the next drawing?

        • FIPster Doofus

          And the Yankees kicked the Red Sox’s asses in the standings last season. As a result, the pressure was on Boston to improve this offseason, and it has. That doesn’t mean New York, after losing out on its prime offseason target, should just throw money around haphazardly.

          Fuentes wouldn’t have a role on the Yankees. Feliciano and Logan can both do what he does – get lefties out and fail miserably vs. righties.

          Soriano is too much of an injury risk; plus, multiyear, big-money deals for relievers not named Mo Rivera never seem to work out.

          If you’d have said that Cashman needs to find a starting pitcher via trade regardless of what Pettitte does, I’d endorse that argument. But throwing away money on relievers just for the sake of doing it is no way to run a successful franchise.

        • Sean C

          You do realize we’re entering the next season with just about the same team that won 95 games last season, right? And it probably seems that the Red Sox are “kicking our asses” (though, I don’t really know what that actually means) but remember they NEEDED to make these upgrades. Soriano and Fuentes won’t magically make us better than the Red Sox, or anyone else for that matter. Our roster is pretty effing good, in case you haven’t noticed (sure, adding Pettitte or another house-name starter would go a long way towards instilling confidence, but seriously this team is good enough to make the playoffs again). When will certain people understand this?

    • FIPster Doofus

      He better do neither of those things.

  • Brian getting Gready Ca$hman

    Heh this has to be fake

    http://twitter.com/#!/BerniesCrew

    • It’sATrap

      same here…but i have a source telling greinke is coming to NY for Nunez, cervelli and nova…more coming as a confirm with this reliable source.

      • Brian getting Gready Ca$hman

        IETC

  • It’sATrap

    lol what?
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/.....37964.html

    if that’s true (doubt it)..then KC is ran by bigger morons than i expected.

    • FIPster Doofus

      That better not happen.

    • Xstar7

      Holy Shite.

    • DJH

      I have felt all offseason Greinke would get traded for a million times less then expected, like all players seem to, so I expect this to be true. If this is true though I will be really dissapointed in Cashman for not just saying screw it let’s go get Greinke and top that low ball offer.

      • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

        What would the Yankees equivalent be?

        • It’sATrap

          i would guess nunez, heathcott and a triple AAA reliever or nova…hell nothing i’d lose sleep over

          • Gonzo

            Alcides is much, much better than Nunez.

            • It’sATrap

              not really…He’s good defensively but so far haven’t shown much with his bat. Hell the time he hit .300 was when he had an inflated .340+ BABIP in a SSS of 100 ab’s

              • Gonzo

                You’re going off of stats as a 22 and 23 year old SS in the bigs. Nunez has a worse glove and I mean much worse.

              • Doug

                Escobar was #19 on BA’s 2009 Top 100. Nunez, not so much.

                • Gonzo

                  Still a crappy haul. The trade depends on whether or not Alcides can succeed in the bigs. Huge risk, but maybe they feel like they’ve seen enough to think he will.

                  • Doug

                    oh, i agree. just “arguing” that nunez is nowhere in his class.

                    • Gonzo

                      Yeah, maybe they wanted someone who could play SS. Maybe they think this is their superstar.

                      They needed a SS and a CF, and they got that in this trade. I just think they could have done better.

                      Couldn’t Theo offer Iglesias, Ellsbury, Westmoreland (why not?), and Pimentel?

            • Gonzo

              That said, what a crappy haul.

        • Brian getting Gready Ca$hman

          Via @mikeaxisa

          “… It’s like … Nunez, a crappier version of Gardner, and Brackman.”

        • Shaun

          screw equivalent we can beat that Pena, Cervelli, Corban Joseph, Nunez, and a subscription to Oprah’s book of the month.

          Greinke Please

      • It’sATrap

        God if this rumor is true and cashman didn’t try to make even an offer for Greinke…well i’m going to prepare myself to jump on the fire Cashman wagon b/c this offer is so ridiculous and so lacking that the yankees could have matched it w/o giving up on montero or too much farm depth.

        • DJH

          Yeah, I have long been a Cashman supporter and have not been bothered by this offseason like some have but if this trade happens and it comes out that NY wasn’t in the bidding I will lose it.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      Oh F*CK

    • DJH

      That package btw would probaly be considered less then:Gardner, Nunez and Nova. If I was a KC fan and that deal actually happens, I would riot against Moore.

    • DJH

      I have been in the Greinke can handle NY camp so the only way for me to not get upset with this deal is if Greinke told NY flat out he wouldn’t waive his no trade. Otherwise there is no excuse to not top that offer.

    • Dave

      Ugh! It’s always the catch-22 in which the Yanks find themselves. The pricetag for them to trade would have been much steeper. KC would have demanded Montero & Banuelos to be involved.

      And since Escobar is the Brew-crew’s jewel (although I’m not entirely certain why), KC probably makes the deal with a somewhat clean conscience. Because, let’s face it, any rival GM that dares make a trade that the Yankees look like they come out better in would be crucified by their fan base.

    • http://community.webshots.com/user/randym77 randym77

      Holy cow.

      The article says the Brewers were told they had no chance…until Greinke made that public demand to be traded.

      I’m not going to blame Cashman for not topping the offer. The Yanks were supposedly on Greinke’s no trade list, so the Royals’ hands may have been tied.

      Of course, the Brewers were on Greinke’s no-trade list, too, so either he agreed to the trade, or this is just a rumor.

  • All Star Carl

    Jeremy Jeffress is a beast. Was hitting 103 in the AZL. The other 2 though :(

    • All Star Carl

      reply fail sorry.

    • Accent Shallow

      103 . . . BA? 103 bombs?

  • DJH

    It sounds like the Greinke trade is true plus one more prospect. Other people are hearing the same thing now.

    http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/.....trade.html

    • candyforstalin

      odorizzi is good.

      • Gonzo

        You know, I wanted the Yanks to draft him in the fated Gerritt Cole draft. I am kinda disappointed by him though.

    • It’sATrap

      Greinke goes from a losing team to a slightly less losing team

      • It’sATrap

        on a side note…maybe the yanks didn’t really need to give up montero

      • FIPster Doofus

        Greinke-Gallardo-Marcum is no joke.

      • DJH

        Yeah that was my reaction to. I thought Zack wanted a consistent Winner? I do think the Brewers could make a run next year with, Greinke, Marcum, Gallardo and a good lineup but they will lose Prince next year and probaly can’t afford to extend Zack.

        • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

          I think Milwaukee is the PERFECT place for Greinke. With him and Marcum added, they will definitely compete. I’m sure he will welcome an extension.

          • DJH

            I really wanted to see Greinke in a bigger market though even if not NY at least a real popular team that’s been to the playoffs a lot in the last decade, like the Dodgers or something, they aren’t as serious about baseball but are still popular. People are always gonna say Zack can only have success in small places from now on and I was hoping he would get traded somewhere he could prove people wrong.

            He will never be given the chance to prove anyone wrong in MIL so from now on people will always still doubt him which as someone who is a Greinke fan is dissapointing.

    • FIPster Doofus

      This trade makes me want to punch things.

  • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

    I get it now…

    Escobar’s OBP is worse than Nunez’s, therefore Escobar is more valuable to DM. The Yankees didn’t have one low OBP player they could have thrown in the deal?

    • DJH

      Moore is insane with his low OBP guys. He must hate Brett Gardner.

      BTW that guy with a fan blog really made a name for himself wiith this.

  • Avi

    I just have to laugh at all the people who speculate about trades and say the Yanks NEED to give up Hughes, Montero and Banuelos. Can we do away with the “your trade proposal sucks!” once and for all?

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      I think we all fell for this one.

    • DJH

      You right, people do always over estimate what it’s going to cost to acquire players.

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      Dayton Moore is unpredictable. And the rumor is unconfirmed.

      The “your trade proposal sucks” was born out of people asking if we could get young star player x for crappy prospect 1, 2, and 3.

      • Gonzo

        IPK and Melky FTW!!!

      • Avi

        It used even when the proposal is better than the package the team eventually accepts.

        • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

          Although I haven’t been around that much, I’ve never seen it used when the package was something Hughes, Banuelos, and Montero.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      If this rumor is true — and right now, that’s a big “if” — doesn’t it justify the “your trade proposal sucks” line of thinking? It’s clear that most people would give up far too much to get back good players in return. As Johan Santana and Dan Haren proved, you don’t need to literally sell the farm to get value in return.

      • Avi

        Yes absolutely. Only it’s NEVER used to say someone is proposing too much, just that they’re offering way to little. I used the “your trade proposal sucks!” the other night in response to someone who wanted to give the whole farm for Greinke. Wish it was used more like that.

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          Oh really? I think our approach to the phrase that Joe coined is exactly what you’re saying. Most of the time, I find that people are proposing way too much in trades. Hence, the trade proposals suck.

          • Avi

            Ben, I’ve been on this site since August and never once can I remember “your trade proposal sucks” used in that context.

            • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

              As Joe, Mike and I use it or as it’s used by other commenters? There’s a significant difference there.

              Take a look at Joe’s introduction to the idea from 2009. Basically, any trade proposal is fair game for falling into that trap because outside observers just aren’t working with the right information.

    • Big Juan

      Even though you’re being an ass about it, I’ll admit that I was wrong when I argued with you a few nights ago.

  • Hughesus Christo

    Lorenzo Cain >>>> Heathcott
    Escobar >>>> Nunez

    The Yankees don’t have up the middle prospects for KC, so they would get fleeced elsewhere.

    • DJH

      Gardner is better then Cain or Heathcott though and KC could of acquired higher end prospects that didn’t exactly fit their system and the moved them for something else.

      I’m not sure Cashman would of wanted to trade Montero for the Brewer package and that’s sad when a former Cy Young winner in his 20’s gets moved for quite possibly less the what it would take to acquire someone who has never been in the bigs.

      • Gonzo

        Looks like they wanted to fill SS and CF. I am a little surprised because that mentality severely limits your trading partners.

      • It’sATrap

        Is it okay to say i want to punch our GM in the face for buying into all that Greinke can;t handle NY none sense?

        • Gonzo

          You don’t know what went down. Serenity now. Serenity now. Facts first, anger later.

    • Gonzo

      What about Iglesias, Ellsbury, Westmoreland, and Pimentel?

      • DJH

        I think that is on par with what MIL offered. How about Gardner, Heathcott, Nunez, Banuelos? That might fall a little short but throw in another top Yankee prospect like Betances, Romine or Sanchez and it might be better then either of those.

        • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

          Any Greinke package needs Montero. Greinke is the face of the Royals and by far the best player on the time now and into the future. He doesn’t go unless KC is practically guaranteed an equivalent future value

          • Gonzo

            Have you read the rumors recently?

            • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

              apparently not. I guess I was late to the party.

              Omar Minaya > KC GM?

              • FIPster Doofus

                Yes, and it’s not even close.

        • Gonzo

          Some were speculating that MIL wanted a SS and a CF. If true, the Yanks don’t line up as well as the Sox or MIL. I mean would you trade for Gardner coming off of wrist surgery?

          Kind of silly, as I would rather have talent anywhere on the diamond. I would have preferred the Yankee deal you suggested if you threw someone else in there.

        • candyforstalin

          no, it’s not. the brewers package is considerably better.

          • Gonzo

            Even if he threw in a Betances, or Sanchez as he suggested? It’s close.

            • candyforstalin

              i meant the soxs package. ellsbury has 3 years left, arbitration years.

              • Gonzo

                You’re right. They’d have to swap out Westmoreland for Reddick, and add in a Doubront or Britton. That’s closer.

      • Avi

        Actually Ellsbury, Iglesias, Lowrie and a token pitcher like Dobrount matches up well with what KC says they’re looking for.

        • Gonzo

          Dang, I forgot about Lowrie. I always forget about him.

        • candyforstalin

          ellsbury has 3y left, lowrie 4. i’m pretty sure they’re looking for 5+.

          • Gonzo

            That’s why you include Iglesias, and maybe a Reddick or Kalish.

            • candyforstalin

              iglesias, britton, reddick/kalish, pimentel. yeah, that would do it.

      • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

        After the brain surgery, it’s tough to say what Westmoreland’s value is at this time.

        • Gonzo

          Yeah, I just realized he would have to be swapped out. I knew about the malformation, I was just spitballing.

        • Avi

          Guys, Jeffress is reliever, didn’t crack Baseball America’s top 100 and walks a million guys. Check this out.
          http://www.baseball-reference......ffre001jer

  • Doug

    Realize people, that this trade has not been substantiated ANYWHERE outside of Milwaukee.

    • Gonzo

      If true, there are gonna bee some angry fanbases out there. Not just the Yankees.

      • Doug

        most definitely. but you know whose are gonna scream the loudest

      • DJH

        Right at this price even teams that have done a lot this offseason like BOS and PHI are gonna say why didn’t our GM go after him at that price.

  • Gonzo

    Crazy thought but what if Gardner’s wrist surgery kept this deal from happening? Would you beat Kerhsaw on sight?

    Not true, but just a thought.

    • DJH

      That would be disappointing, no doubt. If this trade goes down I can’t wait to here what other teams were in on this and hopefully hear what other teams were offering.

  • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

    If your team doesn’t get a top-of-the-line pitcher, the next best thing is for him to go to a non-contending team in the other league.

    • DJH

      I kinda thought he would end up in TOR and with their core plus Grinke they would scare me so yeah if Grinke isn’t going to the Yanks I’m glad it’s MIL.

  • http://twitter.com/tjamato T.J.

    The only prospect I like in this deal is Cain.

  • Gonzo

    I haven’t seen any national reporter confirm this yet. Anyone else have a confirmation?

    • bakekrukow

      It’s not on MLBTR, Jon Heyman, Tom Verducci, Ken Rosenthal, or Buster Olney’s Twitters yet either, if this was true one of them would have it. Until I hear from somewhere other than a Milwaukee site I call BS.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      We’ve heard nothing yet. That’s why we haven’t posted on it. The sources aren’t known for breaking rumors or being reliable. That’s not to say it might not be true, but we’re waiting for better confirmation first.

  • AJ

    The Brewers rotation next year:

    Zack Greinke
    Yovani Gallardo
    Shaun Marcum
    Randy Wolf
    Mark Rogers

    Not bad at all. I think they could compete.

    • Gonzo

      Imagine they beat the Phils in the playoffs? Riots in Philly.

    • Avi

      I guess they’re not trading Prince Fielder, unless of course they’re out of it by the deadline. He’s a free agent after the year.

      • It’sATrap

        If they happens i can see them trading Greinke too viva Cliff Lee style. i mean if they get rid of fielder and are losing…whats the point of keeping grienke?

        • Avi

          True, good point. They really only have a one year window here with Fielder being a free agent after 2011.
          No one else is reporting this trade..

  • http://twitter.com/tjamato T.J.

    You’d think ESPN, SI, or someone would have woken Buster Olney or Jon Heyman up for this.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      They’re all drunk right now

  • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

    For what it’s worth, Tom Haudricourt, one of the Brewers beat writers, has been unable to confirm the Greinke rumor.

    • DJH

      Haudricourt is pretty good. It is odd he can’t confirm with his sources.

  • Dave

    My prediction?!

    PAINNNNN!!!!!

  • gargoyle

    He hit a 3 run bomb to deep deep left off Beckett in The Stadium to blow open a game.

  • nycsportzfan

    wow, the knicks go ahead and lose to the cavs… UGH! And amare miss’s another would be game winner.. All that energy and moving the ball has stopped and there not getting nearly the amount of underneath hoops like they had been over this 3game stretch… They gotta understand, that they are good when they play inside then kick out for the open shots…. Toney Douglas is just god awful, by the way..

    As for the Yanks, i hope cashman understands if he goes and brings in Andy and Soriano, with the all ready addition of Feliciano and martin, he’d of had a pretty stellar offseason… Thats why he really needs to make it happen, and pay the man.. So what, if Hes getting closer money to Set up.. Setting up is a huge huge thing, and he should think of it as having a closer for the 8th inn and 9th inn, ya know? Dosent he realize if u have a super closer for the 8th and 9th, your really in good shape when up after 7inn? I mean, come on, its common sense! No time to worry about 5-10 extra mill.. Go get em, and gain a Huge Advantage over the league…

    • gargoyle

      They can’t play defense.

  • bonestock94

    Crasnick just confirmed Greinke to Brewers.

    • Mark B.

      If Greinke pitches in ’11 like he did in ’08 and prior, the deal is a steal for Milwaukee. They gave up two marginal prospects in Escobar and Cain and one very long-shot prospect who is one substance abuse arrest away from banishment for life (Jeffress). Plus the Brewers are getting Betincourt. Well done deal by Doug Melvin.

      • Brian

        Who would the comps be from the Yankee system?

        • Dave

          Irrelevant. Yankees couldn’t have gotten for the same type deal. Price tag would’ve been higher. Plus, Escobar was centerpiece for the Royals. We don’t have any young SS to center a deal around (Nunez isn’t that caliber of a trdae chip).

        • Mark B.

          Escobar could be compared to Nunez. Escobar is a better fielder, but Nunez looks to be a better hitter. The Yanks don’t have comparables for Cain (a big-league read CF with a decent bat and speed, but no power) and Jeffress (Double AA starting pitcher who hasn’t pitched about the AA-level with the live fastball, but is one positive substance abuse test away from a life-time banishment)

      • bonestock94

        I don’t know much about what the Royals got, but I don’t think anyone will be surprised that Dayton Moore has made a stupid decision.

        • Mark B.

          The more I look at this deal, it screams “fire sale” by the Royals. Escobar was supposedly Milwaukee’s #1 prospect going into 2010 and flopped at the big league level, hitting only .235. Cain looks like a #4 outfielder on many teams.