Dec
17

Open Thread: Fonsy

By

(AP Photo/Ron Frehm)

Alfonso Soriano was one of my most favorite players back in the day. The first thing I and I think a lot of people noticed about him was how damn skinny he was. The dude was built like Ramiro Pena, but he could launch some absolute bombs. Soriano hit what could have been one of the biggest homeruns in Yankee history in 2001, when he took Curt Schilling deep to lead off the eighth inning of Game Seven of the World Series to break a 1-1 tie. Had those final six outs gone as planned, we’d be sitting here talking about Fonsy as a Yankee legend and a clutch machine. The baseball gods had different plans, and after flirting with 40-40 in both 2002 and 2003 he was traded to Texas for Alex Rodriguez. I was sad to see Soriano go but that’s a deal you don’t pass up. It’s been a long time since the Yankees have had a player that exciting, who could wow you with his power and speed. It sure was fun to watch, even if he’d swing at sliders off the plate until the cows came home.

Anyways, here is tonight’s open thread. The Devils, Nets, and Knicks (against the Heat!) are all playing tonight, but it is Friday night you know. Not a bad night to go out and do something you’ll regret in the morning. Talk about whatever, enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread
  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    BEAT THE HEAT

    /obligatory’d

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    I remember Soriano primarily for two things:
    1. that huge HR in the 2001 WS (I think he had a few other walk-offs in the 2001 postseason too)
    2. striking out something like 90000000000 times in the 2003 postseason. :(

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      2. striking out something like 90000000000 times in the 2003 postseason. :(

      Where the fuck was the catcher from Space Jam when we needed him?

      Slider. DON’T SWING.

    • http://fmylife.com Bryan L

      Forgot about the bird nearly clipping his head during 2003 World Series?

    • toad

      I remember the strikeouts too. There were 26 in 75 PA’s. I wonder if his generally poor post-season performances, especially 2003, made him a goner one way or the other.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        Eh… he was a near 40/40 guy at 2B. Even with really poor defense and not outstanding OBP that’s pretty damn awesome. Getting traded for A-Rod, who was probably the best player in baseball outside of Bonds at the time, ain’t exactly gettin’ shoved out the door.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Slider, low and away.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Annoying: One friend in Denver. One friend in San Fran full time. One friend flying out to LA for Christmas. One friend in Hawaii. One friend in Boston. One friend (and her BF) sick from work today. Goddammit!

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Oh and one friend in Malawi for the next 20 some odd months working for the Peace Corps. What a fucking loser, trying to better the world and all….

    • pat

      I bet Rosie Palms and her 5 sisters are around.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    Nerdy things. Andy Pettitte. I am a-squeeeeee.

    http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=12601

  • YankeesJunkie

    Woke up at 1215 for a 1200 final in talking about things I regretted the next morning, but it was all you can drink beer for 10 euros.

  • mike c

    he’s one of the reasons why the cubs suck badly. one of the most terrible contracts in sports

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      As bad as it is, and it is very bad, it’s still not as bad as A-Rod’s.

      • mike c

        at least a-rod has the potential to be a great player for the coming years. soriano’s not even a good starting LF anymore

        • Sweet Dick Willie

          But the chances of Alex performing to the value of his contract are quite slim.

          • mike c

            well by that logic, then how much is a WAR worth? i’d say 30MM for 4 WAR is way better than 17MM for 1.5 WAR

            • candyforstalin

              right.

  • YankeesJunkie

    Soriano peaked at the right time he was awesome with a 5.4 and 6.9 fWAR before he signed the huge contract.

  • http://fmylife.com Bryan L

    Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

    /fonsy’d?
    /fonzie’d?

  • Mattchu12

    “The Yankees now seem likely to pursue starting pitching, a right-handed reliever and an outfielder who bats from the right-side.” from over on MLBTR

    Predictions?

    I’m thinking Andy Pettitte and maybe Fausto Carmona or Wandy Rodriguez for the starting pitching, Grant Balfour or Jon Rauch or Dan Wheeler for the right handed reliever, and Scott Hairston for the outfielder. I wouldn’t mind getting the other Hairston brother as well, Jerry Jr.

    • All Star Carl

      Nice you just named everyone on the market.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      I really don’t want Carmona. At all. I have no faith in that dude. I wouldn’t be super opposed to Wandy, though. Rauch is definitely a good option. I’d love to have him, but I doubt the Yankees give him the best personal situation possible (aside from money).

    • http://fmylife.com Bryan L

      Grant Balfour would cost a pick and therefore ain’t worth it.

      Carmona would probably be too expensive.

      Wandy Rodriguez is intriguing but I got a feeling he wouldn’t be able to cut it in the AL East.

    • HeavyHitter

      Prefer Wandy by far over Fausto. Signing Balfour would require Yanks to give up their first round pick in a deep draft. Rauch would be great.

  • Carcillo

    I feel like I’m addicted to Seinfeld.

    Is there a Seinfeldaholics Anonymous committee?

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Yo.

    • candyforstalin

      the ukraine is weak.

    • mike c

      you know peterson is the new host for family feud?

      • mike c

        peterman

      • Jose the Satirist

        He was the host, Steve Harvey is the new host.

      • Rob NY

        Case in point…

        “KRAMER: Mister Peterson, you gotta sell me my stories back!

        PETERMAN: You want to know something? I no longer need them! I have Benes’ woderfully imaginative mind to spin my stories. You take back your tales, you vagabond!”

    • Rob NY

      Seinfeld is easily the greatest show ever written. My fiancee and I are reminded of random quotes… everywhere. If there is a SeinfeldAholics group we need it.

      “Well played.” — “I’ll see you in hell, Costanza.”

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    Good start by the Knicks.

    • Xstar7

      not good enough

  • Ken C

    there ain’t gonna be no beat the heat if they let them shoot jumpers all night long -.-

  • mike c

    damn, glad i didn’t drop $150 on a ticket for tonight

  • Xstar7

    Knicks making a comeback.

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    Danilo Gallinari: Good at basketball.

  • mike c

    SLICK play

  • Sandman42

    Great run there so far this quarter for the knicks. Gallo, Fields and Chandler=amazing.

    By the way, according to MLBTR, Grienke has officially requested a trade. Let the madness begin.

  • Granderslam

    There’s this guy named Greinke that’s pretty good I hear. And he wants out of KC. Sounds like a good fit to me.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      The Royals have no leverage whatsoever now. We don’t have to sacrifice half the farm now.

      • It’sATrap

        I really hope we make a move…Royals have no choice but to move grienke now and i’m pretty sure he probably wants to go to a winner….God i hope the phillies don;t need a 5th starter

      • mike c

        there’s also a bunch of other baseball teams that probably want him too. yankees are still going to have to give up the goods

      • Reggie C.

        This story gives me some hope that a deal for Greinke could be pulled off without including Montero in the deal.

        Probably still won’t happen. Yanks don’t line up well with KC’s demands. KC would ask for Hughes if Cashman tried to exclude Montero from the deal.

        Do you part with Hughes and a couple of the killa Bs if you could get Greinke ??

        • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

          Hell no. If Hughes goes, it better damn well be for a franchise-type player (I’m talking Tulo-Felix territory here).

          • Reggie C.

            Greinke and Felix have the same number of Cy awards and Greinke is only 27 yrs old, so its not like he won’t challenge Felix for future Cy awards.

            I’d hate to do it b/c Hughes has a bright future and it’d leave us a hole in the 3 spot. Who knows…but Montero would surely stay in the system.

            • Mattchu12

              I’d rather have Hughes than Montero.

              • Shaun

                I concur. Hughes has already proven he can handle the bigs.

    • Jose the Satirist

      I like that earlier today someone in the chat asked if Greinke changing agents was meaningless or a sign. Mike said probably meaningless and then the same day Greinke asks for a trade. The market is just so unpredictable.

      • Mattchu12

        Isn’t his agent Casey Close (Derek Jeter’s agent) now?

        Cue the baffling statements.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        Heh, I like when Werth changed his agent to Boras and proceeded to get an absolutely batshit crazy deal.

        • Mattchu12

          Everything about the Nationals is batshit crazy thought.

          Immediately after Werth talked about their offense being strong, they trade away their best hitter not named Werth or Zimmerman. Smart move.

          • Sam

            I was positive they were going for it this year… until they traded a Willingham for two players that have “possible future” in front of their positions.

            • Mattchu12

              I honestly thought the Nationals were going to pick up Pavano and Webb, surprise us all and compete in the NL East. Not happening.

      • ZZ

        You don’t switch agents in the middle of a multi-year deal just for the kicks.

        It was clear as day it meant something when he made that move.

        Close is going to push for a trade and likely is going to try to get a team on Greinke’s no trade list to make the trade to leverage some more money out of the deal.

        I would be “baffled” if it was a meaningless move ;)

  • JeffG

    Knicks are playing real basketball again… nice to see.

    • JeffG

      Spoke too soon. Jinx? Anyways good things to come hopefully.

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    Gardner+Adams+Warren/Phelps. Boom, welcome to New York Zack Greinke.

    • Mattchu12

      Who plays left field?

      • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

        Manny Ramirez

        • Mattchu12

          I do really want Manny to sign somewhere to play the outfield. Those moments are priceless.

      • Granderslam

        Rasmus ;)

      • TMiller

        Soriano! That was the point of the thread obviously

        • Mattchu12

          I smell a batch of Soriano-Zambrano packages coming.

    • Gonzo

      Not serious, right?

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Your trade proposal… happens I hope

      • pete

        ietc

  • All Star Carl

    Do they call fouls on the Heat?

    • Xstar7

      Just did.

  • All Star Carl

    Too many jump shots.

  • First Time Poster

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....ason1=2010

    Astonishing just how similar Burnett and Millwood’s were in 2010.

  • http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Zack-Greinke-asks-Kansas-City-Royals-for-trade-fires-agent-121710 Rob

    P.S. Supposedly Greinke has asked the Royals for a trade, per this link. If this is true maybe it, even if minimally, reduces what the Royals can ask for in return/it can create some leverage for inquiring teams, but at the same time if it’s true half the league will be in on it creating demand/competition, so who knows. Nevertheless interesting…

  • JeffG

    Strausburg… if he comes back ok will be available in 2013. Maybe missing Cliff Lee is a good thing?

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      available? How? In a trade? Doubt it. Too early for free agency. He won’t be a free agent until after 2015 or 2016.

      • Gonzo

        After 2016, I believe at earliest.

        The OP is thinking about the contract with Nats being up. However, they still control him after that.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      He signed a 4 year $15.1 million dollar signing bonus after being drafted. Despite being a major league contract, that does not mean he will be a free agent. Teams have 6 years of control on their players as soon as their clock starts the moment they are brought to the majors. His contract will be up with the Nationals in 2013-14, but no other team can have him, unless the nationals non-tender him… which they won’t.

      It’s like football/basketball/hockey with restricted free agency, and unrestricted free agency. When a player is a RFA and his contract is up, he is only allowed to negotiate with his first team.

  • http://none Angel

    Get Greinkie without Montero….just call Ruben Amaro Jr…he get Oswalt and Lee(2009) without D.Brown and Drabek

    • Gonzo

      They trade CC and Lee, yet the best player/prospect was from trading Casey Blake!!!!

  • http://bronxbombersreport.com Craig

    Will someone explain to me what makes John Danks so appealing to so many fans. I like the IP and I see the solid WAR totals, but his FIP and xFIP are nothing to do a back-flip over. I also get that he’s a LHP which makes him more attractive now that the Red Sox are so LH heavy, but this infatuation with Danks has been going on before the Sawx added Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford.

    He’s certainly a solid pitcher, but not one that I would be okay seeing Jesus Montero packaged for. I would literally break something if that happened.

    I don’t particularly won’t Greinke (esp. for Montero+), but I’d still have to rank Danks behind him on a wish list.

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    Someone tried to tell me today that Mike Trout is the best prospect of all time. (and no, I wasn’t on Halo’s Heaven).

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      Don’t be ridiculous, everyone knows it’s Casey Kelly.

  • http://none Angel

    Betances,Nunez,Nova and Romine

    • Mattchu12

      for Greinke?

    • Granderslam

      I wish. Not going to happen.

      • Mattchu12

        Agreed. If this is a Greinke proposal, I’d already have the papers signed and chanting ‘no takebacks, no takebacks’.

    • candyforstalin

      my probably-no-chance-in-hell greinke proposal is this:

      -gary sanchez
      -andrew brackman
      -slade heathcott
      -ivan nova/david phelps/adam warren/graham stoneburner

      • Mattchu12

        I think it’ll have to be Montero and a Killer B or Gardner and two Killer B’s.

        I can’t imagine that the Royals would accept less than that. And now that Crawford and Werth are off the board, not that I blame Cash for ignoring them, I think Gardner has to stay.

        If I could talk them down to Montero + anything but a Killer B, I might take it because I have a very bad feeling in my gut that Andy is going to retire.

        • candyforstalin

          the problem with montero is they already have one. william myers.

          • Gonzo

            Some say Myers can play OF. Problem is if Montero can’t play C, they have a logjam at 1b. However, they could just flip Montero or a 1b guy.

          • Mattchu12

            Myers is still in A-Ball, long ways to go before he suits up in KC. If I’m the Royals, I’d take Montero because he is the best bat, and if Myers pans out, deal with it when the time comes.

            The biggest mistake any GM can make, is assuming someone in their farm will be a star when they reached the majors. I’m not even willing to let myself believe that about Montero yet, despite supreme confidence in him, there’s no way I’m doing it for Myers in A-Ball.

            • candyforstalin

              he’ll be there in 2012, in all likelihood. but you and gonzo are probably right. i just don’t want to contemplate trading montero (or betances or banuelos) at this point.

              • Mattchu12

                I don’t want to trade Montero either. Dude is a beast, but just like I said up above about Hughes vs Montero, I take the pitching every time.

                The fact of the matter is simple: A top of the rotation arm is more important than any bat. The only thing that keeps me from saying ‘do it’ is that I don’t know if we will get a top of the rotation arm in Greinke.

                And at the same time, I don’t know that Montero can be Montero in the majors. It is a completely different game up here, and all the minor league stats in the world do not guarantee your success in the major leagues.

                It’s a tough choice. I’m not saying I do it, I’m saying that I’d listen. My gut? If it’s Montero and Betances (Like Brackmonster and Man-Ban more) plus fringe guys, I think I make the deal. But I’m like 55/45 on it.

  • http://nutballgazette.blogspot.com/ Larry

    Robinson Cano is a whole lot better than Soriano.

    • jim p

      For one thing, he is clearly eager to learn and to work at it. Soriano, though I loved to see him play, just seemed to have an “I have arrived” attitude. I never expected him learn to not strike out so much.

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    The similarities between Cano and Alomar are scary. In a good way of course.

  • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    We need a separate continuous open thread: “ridiculous trade proposals for Zack Greinke.”

    • The Real JobaWockeeZ

      Joba and Nunez. Get it done!

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      twitter.com

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      I see your Melky Cabrera and raise you one Sergio Mitre.

  • Sam

    I would like to begin by saying that honestly, I think everyone needs to stop freaking out.. We didn’t get Cliff Lee.. that’s that. It’s not the end of the world.. and Cashman isn’t anywhere close to being a terrible GM. So really people, stop acting like he isn’t doing his job. We have a great team. If Pettitte signs we have a solid top four starters and then we get to see what guys like Nova can do. If he doesn’t cut it, we have until the deadline to fix it.. If it doesn’t get fixed by then, we can worry. But really.. for all of you people being super dramatic about not getting Lee or the Sox doing well in the offseason.. chill out. The sox had to do well this offseason.. we didn’t.

    • Xstar7

      What I’m freaked out about is how good the Phillies rotation is going to be. Their top four starters guarantee a sweep in a seven game series.

      • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

        Sarcasm…?

        /I hope’d

        • Xstar7

          of course. and their offense sucks.

      • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

        The Giants and their lineup of rejects, cast offs, and Buster Posey beat all of them + Cliff Lee.

      • Sam

        http://articles.sfgate.com/201.....cs-results

        3 of those pitchers were there for that…

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      How quickly people forget that we made it to game 6 of the ALCS with Horrible AJ, Horrible Javy Vazquez and Dustin freaking Moseley in our rotation for three months.

      I think it will be ok. Assuming Pettitte comes back.

      • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

        + Sergio Mitre.

      • Mattchu12

        I can’t say ‘This’ enough times. It’s freakin’ insane how people forget so quickly.

      • Xstar7

        If Andy Pettite retires than can we panic?

        • Mattchu12

          No. Brian Cashman will not let us go into Spring Training with CC-Hughes-AJ-Nova-Mitre.

          • Xstar7

            I sure hope not. But if a guy like Greinke costs us Montero than no thanks. I’m really looking forward to seeing him in the bigs next year.

            • Mattchu12

              I’m looking forward to seeing him too, but until Andy Pettitte reigns, I’m not going to get my hopes too high.

      • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

        Yeah, this team regardless of the pitching staff, aging players, etc, are more than capable of winning 100 games. Will they? Probably not, that is hard enough to do in the first place, but if things go right they definitely can.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      The Red Sox are allowed to have a good team, people act like that is a bad thing. And yes, they are the ones who have to prove themselves, the Yankees don’t have to.

      • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

        Yupp, the Red Sox are the ones who finished in third and missed the playoffs. They’re the ones who had to drastically improve their team, not the Yankees.

  • Jasphil

    This was an exciting but very uneven player. Saw him take over one week to hit his 40th hr of the ’03 season and he never got there. Also used to swing at anything, including a ball that bounced in front of the left side batters box during the ’03 postseason. Do remember that dramatic hr off Schilling in game 7 of the ’01 series. Man we shoulda won that game. I’m enjoying watching Robbie Cano turn into an Alomar-like impact player. Greatest Yankee 2b in history?

  • HeavyHitter

    Here’s the deal: I think Greinke would be motivated to produce in new York and when he’s motivated, he’s the best. I’d go so far as to trade the three B’s: Betances, Banuelos and Brackman along with Romine and/or Laird. Montero and Sanchez are untouchable. I think KC is looking for pitchers who will blossom at the same time as their hitting prospects (or at least they should be) and the Yankees are uniquely suited to provide them with high quality prospects in exchange for a perennial Cy Young candidate.

    • HeavyHitter

      Not that Lamb, Montgomery, Dwyer and Duffy are anything to sneeze at. You can never have enough pitching.

      • It’sATrap

        Agree, from an article i read the rate of pitching prospects developing into great/elite mlb players are at a lowly 11%, while hitters have a 35% chance of being great/wlite productive players. With that said, i could see KC take more pitching and i would not be sadden to see some of our pitching prospects get traded for the real deal. But i wouldn’t trade all 3 B’s. Banuelos i really like b/c of his major upside. Also KC as actively tried to get the yanks involved meaning they like our farm, so a deal is possible. The problem is that the Yankees Front office seems determined to avoid greinke because of his over-exaggerated “mental issues”.

        • First Time Poster

          Man-Ban actually has a lower upside then Betences; however, the former is less of a “sure thing”.

          I’d still prefer Man-Ban.

        • Shaunheiser

          KC is trying to get the Yankees involved in the same way Seattle got the Yankees involved for Cliff Lee. Once the Yankees are in the mix, the value of a player automatically goes up, the Yankees being involved puts leverage back in the Royals hands.

          It may sound crazy, but I think pitching for a big market team would be good for those so called “mental issues” the Yankees offense will provide a big enough cushion for Greinke to win a large percentage of his games, which I’d imagine, would lighten the load on him.

          • It’sATrap

            http://joeposnanski.si.com/201.....h-greinke/

            Not crazy at all…read this article. Pretty much sold me on greinke and his abilities.

            • Mike

              Wow – great article.

              • Stephen Dedalus

                Great article? Posnanski makes it sound as if Greinke’s a double of Dustin Hoffman as Raymond Babbitt in Rain Man.

  • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

    Alfonso Soriano is the second baseman of my heart.

  • Wil Nieves #1 Fan

    I remember reading a story about how Soriano was so devastated about the Yankees trading him that he cried hysterically for days. I bet Soriano’s ego of today would totally beat the shit out of young Soriano years ago.

  • Pete C.

    Absolutely no plate discipline, but he’d change a game just often enough to make you discount it. He’s like a smaller version of Vlad.

  • Dr. O

    I’m sure Cashman is going to get killed for letting a player the Yankees were never even rumored to be pursuing sign with Boston.

    I do understand the frustration though. I imagine when your team’s arch rival keeps signing free agents and making trades while your team sends you emails about re-signings from a week ago and occasionally is “attached” to a fringe MLB’er or 29 yr old career minor leaguer its hard to not be mad. However I hope they keep in mind that in large part a really good team is returning in full, minus some spare parts (albeit good ones) of course. Yeah the obvious void is still there, but Cashman has money, time and a fairly respected farm system, even outside his best prospects, to make a deal.

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com Joe DiMaggio’s Ego-Ghost

    The beauty of this offseason is that even without a salary cap, which I don’t want to see instantiated, the small market teams will still be competitive. Toronto and Tampa Bay are still 80+ win teams. The Yankees got worse. SD will still be in the playoff hunt, as will the Reds and Brewers. Texas is still the favorite in the AL West with one of baseball’s smallest payrolls! Gotta say I love this game!