Open Thread: Rock


(AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

The Hall of Fame ballot is a hot topic these days, and one of the more obvious candidates for induction this year is Tim Raines. Although Rock made his name with the Expos, he was a great part time player with the Yankees from 1996 through 1998. In those three years, he hit .299/.395/.429 with more walks (130) than strikeouts (112). They just don’t make bench help like they used to. I definitely don’t have a signature Tim Raines moment, but holy crap was he a good player. He just had the misfortune of being the second best leadoff hitter in baseball history at the same the best leadoff hitter in baseball history was in his heyday. Tough break.

Anyway, here is this evening’s open thread. The Islanders, Knicks, and Nets are all in action, so talk about whatever your heart desires.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. All Star Carl says:;FEEDNAME=

    Posted this in the OT thread, I’ll post it here.

    No word on Joba and his weight.

  2. CT Yankee says:

    So, MLBTR is reporting Johnny Damon is looking for a return to the Yankees.


  3. My dad loved Rock back in his Expos days. He tells me he was ecstatic when the Yanks brought him on.

  4. Steve H says:

    You can blame Rickey for keeping Rock out of the Hall of Fame. Rock was great, Rickey was even better. Rickey was the greatest of all time.




    This got ridiculously popular in only three days.

  6. Dr. O says:

    Has Raines showed up for Old Timer’s Day yet? He’s like a forgotten part of that dynasty. Obviously no big moment in history, but he was solid when they needed him.

    Maybe they should consider changing the name from “Old Timer’s Day”, maybe Legend Day, or Pinstripe Prestige. Something, I think a lot of guys just hate being an “Old Timer”. It would be nice to see more of the late 90′s guys around.

  7. Xstar7 says:

    Today’s open thread is really slow.

  8. Esteban says:

    Turiaf is having a nice game so far.

  9. Mike Myers says:

    I would love the cave man back. That double steal is one of my all time favorite Yankee moments. Also, Damon refusing the trade back to the sox this summer was one of my favorite non Yankee moments last year.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      I almost peed myself when he took off for third. I thought that he must have thought the ball had gone into CF, and he was going to be out by 25 feet.

      I had forgotten about the shift, and the Happy Pete was covering 2B.

    • whozat says:

      emotionally, sure. I don’t see him as a valuable use of a roster spot on this team, though. He’s a lefty DH that can sorta play LF. I’d rather have a righty DH that can sorta play LF. Or an OFer that can play all three positions but is a lesser hitter.

  10. Wow, I’ve never seen an RAB open thread so slow on a weeknight. I guess everything has been talked about enough.

  11. Carl says:

    Jillian Michaels: Hot or Not?

  12. Xstar7 says:

    Gallinari is on Fire!

  13. Esteban says:

    What’s everybody’s favorite non-Yankees sports moment of their lifetime?

  14. Kevin G. says:

    Soooo, where is Melo being traded to? And does he sign an extension with the team that gets him?

    • Esteban says:

      I think that any team that trades for him will do so having already completed an extension. I really want him to go to the Knicks, but I want the Knicks to be able to sign him in the offseason so they don’t have to trade a lot of their core. That said, I think the Nets probably have the best chips for an in-season trade. The Nets are probably trying to convince him that they’ll be in NY and relevant again.

    • The Infamous Irondequoit says:

      Right from the horse’s mouth, he is going to sign where he gets traded.

      With the new CBA coming, they are going to institute a hard cap so Melo will lose millions if he waits until free agency.

      With all of that in mind, you have to think the Nets are the favorite because they are ripe with everything Denver wants in a trade.

      They want young talent with high upside, expiring contracts in order to create cap room, and lots and lots of draft picks.

      The Nets, in those regards, have Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, and nearly 12 draft picks over the next two years respectively.

  15. Mark L. says:

    Put Gardner in a package for Danks, have Damon and Scott Hairston man LF in 2011. That could work!

  16. Xstar7 says:

    What the hell was that Felton?

  17. Mark L. says:

    In 33 LF appearances for the Tigers, Damon actually had a positive UZR.

    He won’t ever be mistaken for Gardner but if he’s healthy, having him out there for 80 games won’t kill you.

    I’d be curious to see if the White Sox would do something like Gardner, Betances, Laird and Nova/Phelps for Danks and possibly taking back Teahen or Pierre’s bad contract.

    • whozat says:

      UZR doesn’t stabilize until you’ve got a couple seasons of data. I think Hairston is a better fit for this team, but Damon would be a tolerable fallback option, maybe. Like…I’d like him better than Golson or Manny.

  18. Sean C says:

    My dad told me Zach McAllister is back with the Yankees’ farm system. Is there any truth to this? I pride myself on knowing more about the Yankees than my dad, and being the one to tell him news about the team. I’m pretty sure he’s lying to me, since earlier this month I told him the Yankees were close to a trade with the Marlins for Josh Johnson and he couldn’t find anything about it anywhere. Z-Mac would be a really weak revenge (since he gets all of his Yankees news from the Post and Times, yuck).

  19. Esteban says:

    Great bounce back game so far for the Knicks after that disaster in Cleveland,

  20. Jimmy McNulty says:

    I don’t see why the possibility of Felix getting traded is so outlandish. I don’t think he’ll get traded within a year, but I wouldn’t be surprised one bit to see trade rumors regrading him in the deadline in 2012. The Ms blow pretty hard, and they’ll need that morally defective human being Gerrit Cole to be ready by 2013 for them to be competitive in 2014. He’ll require the first born of the Steinbrenner’s and the virginity of Cashman’s daughter to get dealt, but I’d be surprised if he finishes his career with the Mariners.

    • Gonzo says:

      True, but they could get a massive haul if they wait a year or two, so why rush? They can afford it. It’s not like they are the Marlins.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Yeah, that’s my take too. I mean, it’d be nice to see a team that isn’t one of the usual suspects keep a HoFer his whole career…but I’m pretty sure he’ll end up getting dealt. The Mariners aren’t very good, and they got a ways to go, pretty soon he might go Greinke and want to win. I’d put the chances of him getting dealt before his contract is up at about 35-40%.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      He was an IFA, and chose to sign w/ the Mariners instead of the Yankees.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        HUGE difference between a 16 year old kid not wanting to debut in New York and a 29 year old established FA mega star not wanting to sign with the Yankees.

        Side note: What were the final figures in the bidding for his services?

    • Kiersten says:

      I’d be surprised if he finishes his career with the Mariners

      Me too, considering he hits free agency at 29.

      The M’s have the money to compete in the AL West. I could see him staying a Mariner until he hits FA.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        I could see the Ms competing too, but I have a hard time envisioning this. The Angels have money, and lots of it. The Rangers look to be willing to spend big, and they’re a talent powerhouse. The AL West is somewhat open, but I the Mariners aren’t going to get there without a solid 90+ win team.

        • bexarama says:

          They could get there eventually – Jack Z. was very overrated by Fangraphs and stuff in the whole #6org thing, but he’s still a much, much, much better GM than Bavasi, who did a TON of damage to that organization – though I think he’s gonna go to whoever gives him the most money when he hits FA. But that’s a long-ass time for now.

          Maybe they’ll trade Felix some day. I don’t think he stays a Mariner for life, exactly. But I don’t think they’re trading him right now unless a team gives the Mariners like… their entire team.

  21. Gonzo says:

    I really, really like this. I am not trashing anyone or making the silly stereotypical comments of rich kids or bouncers. I just think it’s hilarious when his friend just keeps yelling (not gonna spoil what he’s saying, but it’s comedy gold). All this while his friend is laying in the street. Almost made me wish I partied still.

  22. ultimate913 says:

    I don’t understand the NBA’s rules that much but, how long does an NBA team have control over a drafted player? 4 years? 5 years? 6 years?

    Or does it depend on the contract or something? I know in baseball, it’s 6 years with 3 pre-arb years and then 3 arb years.

  23. Mattchu12 says:

    I’d love to have Johnny back. He was a fantastic clubhouse presence. I know that some people don’t put any stock in a trait like that, but I think over 162 games, it’s a good thing to have and quite frankly, he is a beast at New Yankee Stadium.

    If he takes a low-end deal and knows that he’d only play when the team was giving either Gardner or Granderson or Posada a day off, I don’t see why we wouldn’t welcome him back. Though on Posada’s days off, I might let A-Rod DH and start the utility man at 3B. So really, we’re talking about a backup outfielder role at best. Still, interesting idea.

    And the idea about platooning Johnny with Hairston and trading Gardner for a starting pitcher is one of the better ideas I’ve heard for acquiring an arm, I really like Gardner, but just as it was with Melky, you have to wonder if this season was his career year.

  24. Kiersten says:

    Jimmy McMillan is back.

    I had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard.

  25. Jimmy McNulty says:

    The new Psych season finale is off the motherfucking hook.

  26. Pat D says:

    Tim Raines was not all that different or all that much better than Vince Coleman. This is why he is not in the HOF.

    /Steve Phillips’d

    • In a season consisting of at least 100 games, Coleman’s HIGHEST OPS was .741. For the same threshold, Raines was under .741 only twice in his career.

      • Pat D says:

        Yea, apparently nobody ever told Steve that. When I first read that he made those comments, I quickly understood why nobody else ever gave him a front office job.

  27. Jeremy says:

    My memories of Rock include hitting home run after tino was drilled in back by Benitez starting the bench clearing brawl. He hit homer right after order was restored. He also led team in video supporting strawberry when he was diagnosed with cancer.

  28. Why don’t you read the work of Brown and then you can talk to me about “Rocks”.


  29. Riverdale Joe says:

    I have a signature Tim Raines moment….

    Everyone remembers the famous Armando Benitez fight where he beaned Tino and the fight spilled into the dugout with Daryl Strawberry famously throwing haymakers at Benitez as the bodies piled up in the Oriole’s dugout. The fight is easily in the top 5 baseball brawls of all time.

    As anyone who was at the Stadium for that game will attest, the energy and the electricity during the entire game and especially during and after the fight was absolutely incredible. I was in the bleachers, and people were literally holding each other back from running onto the field. It was a truly crazy and memorable scene.

    After order was finally restored, which I believe took almost 20 minutes, the game was tied. The Stadium was so juiced up. Two batters later, up stepped Rock. He hit the first pitch right into the bleachers. The Stadium was going absolutely bonkers. It was one of those moments that I will never forget, a true signature moment.

    • JGS says:

      After order was finally restored, which I believe took almost 20 minutes, the game was tied

      The game wasn’t tied. Bernie’s home run (that prompted Tino’s beaning) turned a 5-4 deficit into a 7-5 Yankee lead. Raines’ home run then turned it into a 9-5 game.

  30. My favorite Tim Raines moment: the fact that the first baseball glove I remember using had his signature in the palm.

  31. bexarama says:

    I don’t get the “Johnny Damon is a great clubhouse guy” thing (not trying to single out Mattchu, I have heard this ALL OVER Twitter). I certainly believe JD is a great clubhouse guy. I also believe the Yankees have a ton of great clubhouse guys – CC, Swisher, Granderson, etc. It’s definitely a better thing to be a great clubhouse guy than not, but I don’t see the point in overpaying because Damon is so good in the clubhouse.

    • Mattchu12 says:

      I certainly agree with you, there is no shortage of great clubhouse guys on the team. And I don’t think I would offer him more than I’d offer to Scott Hairston.

      Just saying that if I had to choose between Hairston and his defense vs Damon and his bat, at the same price, I’d think of his personality as the tie-breaker. That probably makes me a bit foolish, I know that, just my opinion.

  32. mbonzo says:

    So what Red Sox scouts look for in players seems to be primarily their ability to grow a douchebag goatee. AGon was a perfect pickup for them with that facial hair.

    Although Carl Crawford has very little experience in growing douchebag goatees, he’s certainly got great upside, and he showed that he’s willing to work hard on it at the press conference.

    Saltalamacchia has also proven he can work hard on his douchebag goatee, seems like his first sign of facial hair came in a Red Sox uniform.

    Bobby Jenks is of course the perfect fit for Boston with his douchebag beard, the only question remains, is it too much?

    With the addition of the these 4 guys to the Red Sox, it looks like Theo may have created the ultimate douchebag goatee team, and the Yankees really have no choice but to beg for retarded looking facial hair mercy next season. The only problem the Red Sox may run into is if Mike Cameron and Jacoby Ellsbury don’t break some ribs again. Both of their cleanshaven faces are a threat to the Red Sox douchebag goatee Nation.

  33. Marion Cobretti says:

    MLB network just reported Eiland signed on as a consultant for the Rays.

  34. The Phillies have spent $125M this offseason… on two players.

    • Mattchu12 says:

      I’m going to have a little party when the rest of baseball reaches the infamous ‘Yankee Territory’ in a couple of years. The Yankees seem to be heading downwards payroll wise, and will continue to do so as their farm hands like Brackmonster, Man-Ban, Montero, Betances, Phelps, Warren, Romine, Nunez, Laird, and others take on bigger roles in the Bronx in coming years.

      Is it that hard to imagine two of Man-Ban, Brackmonster, or Betances in the rotation (one will have to fail), Phelps and/or Warren in the bullpen, Nunez and/or Laird on the bench, Romine and Montero in the lineup? It’s going to be a sweet day when that happens.

  35. Kombayn Nikoladze says:

    Anyone else kinda hope Damon signs with us? I know he really isn’t much of a help based on our current issues, but I’d like to have him back really just because he brings alot to the clubhouse and is a leader. I feel part of the problem this year was that the team didn’t seem as loose as the ’09 squad and I think Damon’s departure was a big part of that.

    • Mattchu12 says:

      I think the problem this year was injuries and down years from our 2-3-4 hitters, and in the post-season we ran into the hottest team in baseball.

      Love Johnny, but him being gone didn’t keep us from being as good of a team.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      “Anyone else kinda hope Damon signs with us? ”

      *waves hands frantically*

  36. ZZ says:

    I am as big a Posada fan/supporter as there is out there, but Yankee fans are going to be sorely disappointed if they expect a 39 year old Jorge who will turn 40 during the season to stay healthy and hold down the DH spot on an everyday basis.

    The Yankees need another bat. I prefer a bigger one than Damon even if it means the player is strictly a DH, but Damon fits the bill as well. I have more concerns about the offense than most Yankee fans which is why I want to go after a big bat like Thome to help stabilize the lineup, but there is definitely an argument to be made that Damon is the better fit because of his ability to play LF especially since Gardner is coming off wrist surgery.

    If the Yankees don’t bring in another legitimate bat (not some jack of all trades Jerry Hairston type that can barely hit), I bet they are looking for one at the deadline.

    • bexarama says:

      I want to go after a big bat like Thome to help stabilize the lineup

      You don’t expect 39/40 year old Jorge to stay healthy and productive, but you’re counting on Thome to stabilize the lineup? I also don’t think he can repeat his 2010, at all.

      Also I remember you saying something about the team hitting LHPs many times over the season. Thome will not really help with that, neither will Damon.

      • ZZ says:

        Where is Posada going?

        Thome would not take over at DH. I am not signing Thome as the full time DH. Neither of them are everyday players. But, together you have the DH spot set.

        • bexarama says:

          I’ve seen people say they’d rather have Damon as DH than Posada as DH. I was thinking it was one of those situations, especially when you said you wanted Thome to stabilize the lineup. That seems to infer he’d be playing a lot.

          • ZZ says:

            I do think Thome would play a good amount.

            I don’t think Posada is an everyday player, I think Posada will get injured at some point and have to miss some time, I am a bit concerned with Jorge against RHP, and I see a decent amount of pinch hit opportunities available for Thome to have on this team.

      • ZZ says:

        In terms of LHP, that was the 2010 team not the 2011 team. There were unique circumstances to the team at the time including A-Rod performing very poorly against LHP, the team not having a full time DH, and Posada out of the lineup constantly.

        With Martin at catcher, Posada at DH, Montero knocking on the door at AAA it is not the same circumstances.

        • bexarama says:

          Cervelli actually hit LHP though (.443 OBP in 2010!), it was RHP he really struggled with. I agree the A-Rod thing against lefties was very weird and hopefully will not repeat itself.

          I do think the team’s issues with LHP were overblown but I would still prefer someone who could hit lefties over someone who could not at this point.

  37. jt says:

    NO ON DAMON!! i loved him as a guy and a player back in the day, but his glove is godawful and frankly his bat isnt enough to make up for it anymore. what we should look for in a fourth OF is a versatile righty hitter.

  38. AJ says:

    Has anyone mentioned throwing a one-year deal at Rafael Soriano for a really high salary so he can have a great year and test the market against next year when there will be more interest? Or would that probably makes no sense because so many closers will be available next year that it would destroy his value?

    • AJ says:

      Next year’s closing FAs are pretty awesome: Papelbon, K-Rod, Heath Bell, Ryan Franklin, Jonathan Broxton, Matt Capps, Joe Nathan (12.5M club option), Francisco Cordero (12M option). Nevermind. Last comment withdrawn.

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