Dec
10

Open Thread: Waiting on Lee

By

One of these days Cliff Lee will pick a team, I promise. Apparently it just won’t be today. In fact, it was a pretty boring baseball day in general, as teams recoup from the hellacious winter meetings. Get used to it, things are going to die down in about three weeks, then we’ll have nothing to do but countdown the days until Spring Training.

Additionally, we have a brief update on yesterday’s site outage. We were offline on Thursday for five and a half hours due to a DDoS attack. We’ve seen ensured that our firewall is up to date and do not anticipate any problems of that nature going forward. Thanks for your patience during the evening and thanks for reading during the Winter Meetings.

Here’s the night’s open thread. The Devils and Knicks are both in action, but it’s Friday night and you just spent the last five days hitting F5 on RAB and MLBTR nonstop, go out and do something.

Categories : Open Thread
  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    So if you didn’t hear, Kay fell for a fake Jon Heyman Twitter that said the Phillies had traded Gload and Bastardo for Greinke and reported it on his radio show. El. Oh. El.

    • DJH

      Fact:Kay always checks his sources.

  • Claudell

    DDoS attack, huh? Did you guys do something to piss off WikiLeaks?

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R.- Retire 21

      I thought the same thing.

    • Eric Young

      So it was rude of me last night to bitch out three seperate tech reps at Time Warner Cable?

      • TJ

        I kept thinking it meant something big was breaking

        • radnom

          Ditto, when I saw it was down I immediately went to MLBTR expecting to see an announcement on Lee.

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        Nah. It’s never rude of you to bitch out tech reps at Time Warner. I’m sure they deserved it somehow.

        • Pat D

          As a tech support rep, I take offense to this.

          • http://www.danieljfriedman.com DJDan

            As a person, I take offense to your occupation.

            In all seriousness, though, TWC is the worst thing in the world, ever, including Hitler.

  • Esteban

    Any word on who was behind the DDoS attack? Maybe a disgruntled former banned reader?

  • Chris

    The yankees “aggressive approach” to signing Russell Martin doesn’t bode well for signing Cliff Lee. It looks like they’re getting ready to trade Montero for a pitcher because they must think they’re not gonna get lee.

    • radnom

      They kinda need Martin regardless. I can’t disagree with this interpretation more.

      • Chris

        I sure hope you’re right. Next year, the best free agent starter are pretty crappy with Mark Buerhle, Cris Carpenter, CJ Wilson , Joel Pinero and Edwin Jackson the top 5.

    • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

      I don’t really get this train of thought. Martin wasn’t on the market when they declared Montero the starting catcher. Martin being pursued and maybe signed, also, doesn’t obviously seal Montero’s fate as obvious trade bait or show the Yankees have “given up” on him.

      He’s 21 and has never had an MLB at-bat. Furthermore it’s very rare for the Yankees to head into seasons with two way under-30, unproven players at an important position like catcher. So to me this speaks more to creating depth with a vet and making it a competition for PT behind the plate (with Martin penciled in for a heavy load, but with it wide open between Cervelli and Montero for who else is in the picture).

      Also Martin has been injury plagued the last two seasons, so signing him doesn’t guarantee he catches 110-120 games next year since you never know how his body holds up. But he is way better than Cervelli, and that’s who I see this move effecting most, if it happens.

      • Matt

        The Yankees are either gonna commit to Montero as everyday catcher or he’s gonna be in AAA. He needs at bats and game action behind the plate at this point. You think the Yankees are gonna pay Martin $5+ million a year to catch 40 games??

        • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

          40 games? No and I also never said that. But Martin can play third, so it’s possible he will do a bit more than just catch. I agree in general they wouldn’t have Montero on the team as a traditional back up catcher. But I don’t know if signing Martin guarantees he starts at AAA, is what I’m saying. They may think breaking him in this year can still be done w/ Martin.

  • TJ

    Lee taking his time=Lee stays with Rangers. If it was simple math then it would be over.

    • CP

      Ummm. No.

      If he really wanted to stay in Texas, why didn’t he sign a contract in July? or August? or September? or October? or November?

      • TJ

        If he really wanted to be a Yank, wouldn’t he of signed by now?

        • CP

          He doesn’t ‘want’ to be a Yankee – he wants the biggest contract, which requires waiting and negotiating. It also doesn’t hurt to show significant interest in another team.

        • A.D.

          With that logic he doesn’t want to be anywhere

      • TJ

        In all those months mentioned the Rangers didn’t offer him a contract extension worth signing either. If they come close enough he’ll stay with them.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      CC took his time = He signed with LA or SF instead of NY right?

      • TJ

        That deal was done at the Winter Meetings, and Lee isn’t CC. CC was worth it Lee isn’t.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          I wasn’t aware the winter meetings the deadline for Yankees to sign players.
          The panicing and typing the same post just written differently is going to get annoying quick.

          • TJ

            What’s annoying is putting words in someone’s mouth. Is that your habit?

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              Putting words in someone’s mouth…like: If they come close enough he’ll stay with them?

              • TJ

                He said that himself, according to teammates. You read?

                • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                  I spoke to one baseball man who spent quite a bit of time with Sabathia in Las Vegas this week. When I asked what impression he came away with after their visit, he answered:

                  “The same as everyone else — that he really doesn’t want to be in New York and that he’s waiting around for one of the California teams to make him an offer he can say yes to.”
                  http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3758723

                  It’s the season of reports from unnamed sources, stop believing them.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

            Heh, Mark Teixeira signed on December 23. Must’ve been INSANE waiting for that guy to sign.

            • TJ

              Not for Yanks, for Boston sure especially when he bolted to NY.

              • CJ

                For NY sure especially when Lee bolted for Texas
                that’s the first thing I thought when I read this…..if Yankees staff is getting skeptical they’ll sign him, then I am too

    • pat

      Wait, so why hasn’t he signed with Texas yet?

  • TJ

    Angels sign Downs. 15 mil over three years, good have him.

    • Accent Shallow

      I tend to smirk at multi-year deals for middle relievers. When was the last one that worked out?

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        Chris Hammond Steve Karsay Kyle Farnsworth Damaso Marte

        Oy vey!

  • Matty Ice

    OK, so are the Red Sox fans or Wikileaks supporters behind the DDoS attacks?

  • TJ

    At this point Lee for Seven years is too long. This isn’t the steroid era, he won’t improve gradually until 40.

    • Sean C

      7 years isn’t ideal. Will he be worth $20+ mil a season at that point? Probably-to-definitely not. All we can hope is to get the most value out of him as long as possible. In a different thread today, someone said if Lee can post a 30 or so WAR over the life of the contract (kind of a tall order, but not exactly unreasonable), he’s worth it. He’s not expected to improve, presumably this contract would more than cover his decline years. He’s got the command and skills to age gracefully, or at least more so than a pure stuff guy (like AJ). Of course all of this has been covered ad nauseum.

      • Sean C

        make that “$20+ mil a season around the end of the contract.”

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      At this point Lee for Seven years is too long.

      I don’t think you’ll find many people, including Cashman, who will disagree with that statement.

      But if that’s what it takes, give him the 7th year. It’s much easier than the alternative.

    • hogsmog

      Three mediocre/bad years is worth four dominating years, especially when the alternative will be to start someone mediocre/bad (no guarantees on Greinke, and if Pettite leaves someone like Nova is likely) for at least two (nobody good on the market next year).

  • Chris

    Cashman needs to get his ass on a plane to Arkansas with a blank check and not comeback until Lee is signed.

    • Jorge (México)

      That would be nice :-)

  • TJ

    All this hype about Lee is overdone. He’s a touch overrated.

    • Brian

      All free agents are

  • Chris

    7 years may be too long for Lee but would you rather gut the farm system to trade for a pitcher who’ probably not close to Lee? You’ll be conceding the next couple of years to Boston.

  • Totes McGoates

    Studying for final exams while at the same time patiently waiting on Cliff Lee’s decision might completely destroy my brain by the end of the weekend.

    • Michael Mirabella

      Final exams?

      • billbybob

        Who studies for final exams? Wasn’t the whole point of college to party and maybe occaisionally attend class?

        • Totes McGoates

          I have an 8:30 exam on Monday that covers everything from the semester. It’s my first semester in college so I kind of want to get off to a good start.

          final exams= -________-

          • Michael Mirabella

            Ahhhh, what are you studying?

            • Totes McGoates

              The history of western civilization. It’s a combination of theology, philosophy, literature, and history up till the fall of the Roman Empire in the east in 1453. The price you pay for going to a Catholic college lol.

              • Michael Mirabella

                Sounds like it. More of a law/politics guy myself.

                • Totes McGoates

                  Meh. It’s a requirement for my school which is why I’m taking it. I’m actually a political science major so law school is probably in my future.

                  • Michael Mirabella

                    Oh, gonna say, sounds kind of boring. But hey, someones gotta do it.

                    • Totes McGoates

                      Ah that’s college for ya.

                    • Michael Mirabella

                      Amen

                  • toad

                    Be careful about that.

                    Unless you’re near the top of your law school class, or got to a top-tier law school, employment is not easy, and you can be looking at a lot of loans.

                    • Totes McGoates

                      Yeah I’m debating whether to go to law school or not but thankfully, I got four years until I have to make that decision.

                    • Rick

                      You drink that cool-aid too huh? Don’t believe everything you read buddy. Do you realize how small of a percentage of lawyer’s finished near the top of their class or went to a top law school? Do you know how many lawyers make six figures regardless of where the went? Finishing high and top score matter for the immediate future, not long term.

                    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                      Do you realize how small of a percentage of lawyer’s finished near the top of their class or went to a top law school? Do you know how many lawyers make six figures regardless of where the went?

                      Before the economy went bad, that outlook was a lot rosier. Right now, it’s not so easy. Trust me; I’m looking for a post-law school firm job, and I’m not in the top of the class at my top 5 law school. It hasn’t been easy.

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      Totes, when you graduate law school things will probably be a lot different. I don’t go to a top five law school or anything, and grads here are getting jobs regardless of where they graduate. It completely depends on the market, in places like Boston, Philly, New York, Jersey etc. lawyers are getting laid off at big firms with a lot of practice. Those laid off lawyers are in competition with fresh law grads…of course Ben’s going to have a hard time.

                      (Ben, side note, I looked at your LinkedIn page…holy fuck you’ve done a lot. Stop worrying, you’ve done a shitload in life and something will come up for you eventually. Stop being an asshole, and let those of us who are losers worry about finding work)

                    • Totes McGoates

                      Yeah I’m hoping that things change for the better in four years. Talking to the head of the political science department at my school, he said that while the majority of poli-sci majors end up going to law school, some poli-sci majors find jobs as an undergraduate. Law school is something that I have been considering ever since I got into college. Applying to law school is going to be 10000000 times more stressful than applying to college.

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      Study for the LSAT starting after finals. Either that or get heavily involved in politics. Democrat/Republican doesn’t matter. Call the local party and start volunteering. I knew a bunch of PoliSci majors who got jobs in the offices of Congressmen/Governors/Senators/etc. after school.

                    • Totes McGoates

                      Ahh thanks for the advice, appreciate it.

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      I’m sure your school also has faculty with JDs. Kiss their ass until you get hairs stuck in your lips. The LSAT is awful, but if you practice it enough you can get it down no problem. I recommend these books:

                      http://www.amazon.com/PowerSco.....038;sr=8-3

                      http://www.amazon.com/LSAT-Log.....038;sr=8-2

                      http://www.amazon.com/PowerSco.....038;sr=8-1

                      The other companies do a shitty job of explaining things, I know this sounds expensive, but it’s really the best way. Also, once you’ve gotten all that shit down pat get this:

                      http://www.amazon.com/Advanced.....038;sr=1-2

                      http://www.amazon.com/Kaplan-L.....038;sr=1-3

  • Chris

    Cashman should have put some pressure on Lee to make a quick decision so he could have had time to move on Crawford if Lee turned him down. At least then, he could have used Granderson as a trade chip for a pitcher.

    • steve (different one)

      so simple. he probably never thought of that.

      • Brian

        I really don’t think there was ever a chance they would sign Crawford, even without Lee. What pitcher would Swisher have been able to bring back? They would still have to drain the farm all while paying megabucks to Crawford. Boston can have him, he’s not worth that kind of contract.

  • candyforstalin

    i’ve made my peace with lee for 7 years (it involves candles and prayer). the yankees should offer sabathia 1 extra year with a player option for a 2nd (in jeter’s option mold, say 13m guaranteed + 10, 5m buyout) as soon as possible.

  • TJ

    The Yanks would rather have Grandy than overpay for Crawford.

    • Jorge (México)

      You’re right, TJ. 142 M for Crawford = OVERPAID

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        I don’t think it’s the money as much as the years.

        Years 6 and 7 of that contract probably won’t be pretty.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Yeah, I’m mad because Boston got a really good player…but I’m glad the Yankees didn’t sign that contract.

  • TJ

    So does anyone spit on Lee’s wife if he doesn’t sign with the Yanks? I’m thinking that’s a yes. Better think about it Lee.

    • candyforstalin

      ’cause that wasn’t stupid the first time around.

      • TJ

        Sure it was stupid and I never would but we all know someone will.

    • Accent Shallow

      Is this Silladelphia?

      Nope.

      • TJ

        His wife didn’t get spit on there, did she?

        • pat

          While he was pitching for Philly? How does that make sense?

          • TJ

            It didn’t happen anywhere else except NY is the point.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    Today I realized the “if Lee really wanted to go to ________, he’d be there already!!!” argument is pretty dumb on both sides, just because you can go around with it in a loop FOREVER.

    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

      I rank that #2 behind the “He’s from Arkansas, so he wants to stay close and play in Texas”

      • radnom

        I’m sure thats a factor for him, why wouldn’t it be?

        We just have no idea how important it is to him, or how important the approximately 10000 other factors are in his mind.

        • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

          Because it’s an overrated factor – as others have said, Arlington is 500 miles from his hometown, it’s not a 12 minute car ride around the corner.

          • radnom

            I agree that its silly to think its super important and read into where he will sign just based on that. I was just adding that it also makes no sense to completely discount it, thats all.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              I didn’t mean to discount it, just discounting it as a narrative that he’s going to give up 20m to play for Texas because it’s suddenly his hometown team.

              • Brian

                Cab ride from NY to Teterboro = 20 min.

                Private jet from Teterboro to Little Rock = roughly 3 1/2 hours.

                Proximity is overrated.

    • radnom

      If that argument made any sense the only logical conclusion would be the Lee is planning to retire this offseason.

    • Sean C

      And the whole income tax thing. Good god is that a stupid, completely misunderstood argument.

    • TJ

      The argument all along has been that lee with sign where the $$$ and years are the highest. Yanks offered the most $$$ I’m sure and years probably also, so it should be a done deal. Since it’s not he’s thinking about it, and so it’s not all about the $$$$. That bodes well for Texas.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        Okay. Well Texas came out and said they offered a comparable deal, so wouldn’t he snatch that right up if he really really wanted to go there? What is he waiting for, 10 years?

        • TJ

          or someone else to jump in and over 8 years before he signs with TX.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

            So he really wants to be with Texas but 8 years from some other team is a magical deal breaker?

            • TJ

              I don’t think 20 million and an extra year at age 39 is something anyone could walk from. I’m not saying money isn’t an issue at all. You would at least want the option there to think about. The yanks went from no more than 6 period to OK seven to a menu, so what will be the offer tomorrow. He already has them overpaying for too long. My guess is he stays in TX with a comparable deal unless someone blows the doors off.

        • toad

          Maybe he just wants to think things over. It’s a pretty important decision from his point of view.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          A comparable deal or comparable deals? Didn’t the Yankees offer him like three deals?

    • mbonzo

      I kinda disagree with you. I think if he clearly favored the Rangers over the Yankees he would have taken their deal right away. Its a lot more likely the Rangers would go out and trade for Greinke so all this extra time he is giving them is dangerous on his end. That said, I think if Lee really wanted to go to New York or Texas he would be there already, he’s just trying to get the most money right now.

      • TJ

        No one really knows, so maybe. My guess is he stays in TX.

        • RichYF

          Really? Is that your guess? I’m glad you cleared that up for us. I have been on the edge of my seat waiting for you to state your opinion about where Cliff Lee will end up and why. You definitely haven’t made any indication of how you truly feel about the Yankees’ offer vs. that of Texas until this very moment. Please, continue to regale us with stories of how bad New York is for Cliff Lee’s preferences. From his mouth to your keyboard.

          • TJ

            Wow, maybe this is too important for you. Try not to OD or anything if your soap opera goes sideways.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

              Hey, you’re the one that’s said in this thread in a bunch of ways, over and over, that Cliff Lee isn’t coming here. Not trying to be rude, just calling a spade a spade.

            • RichYF

              I was intentionally laying it on thick. Everyone is aware of your thoughts on the Cliff Lee saga. Continuously stating what you deem to be “facts” is not going to change anyone’s mind, if you haven’t figured that out yet.

  • daniel aka bryce harper

    Trailer for Brett Gardner biopic:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUiCu-zuAgM

  • Matt

    The failure of Joba to become and effective starter and the collapse of AJ Burnett have pretty much created this Cliff Lee or bust situation. Can’t see how the Yankees are gonna compete with the Red Sox rotation of Lester, Buckholtz, Beckett, Lackey and Dice-K and lineup of Pedroia, Crawford, A-gon, Youkalis, Papi and Drew unless they sign Cliff Lee.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      Who is that Buckholtz guy? He sounds scary.

      (Yes, I’m being obnoxious.)

    • Sean C

      If we’re going 1-9 in the batting order, give me the Yankees.

      • mbonzo

        Yankees still have a better offense position to position. If they get Cliff Lee and Pettitte they have a better pitching rotation.

        1. Montero = Salty (Montero has much higher upside, gotta prove it first)
        2. Teixeira > AGon (Tex’s career .913 OPS beats .875 both in their prime)
        3. Cano > Pedroia
        4. Jeter > Scutaro
        5. Arod > Youkilis (Arod with 13 straight 30 hr seasons, Youk with 0)
        6. Gardner Ellsbury
        8. Swisher > Drew
        9. Ortiz > Posada (Could go either way but Ortiz has experience DHing)

        1. Sabathia > Lester (More experience as an ace, similar numbers though)
        2. Lee > Beckett (Becketts coming off a bad season)
        3. Pettitte > Lackey (Bad season for Lackey too good season for Pettitte)
        4. Hughes Matsuzaka (Matsuzaka just sucks, Burnett COULD be a #2)

        • mbonzo

          haha it read my 6 and 7 as a code > <

          Anyway Gardner is obviously worse offensively than Crawford and Granderson is better than Ellsbury.

          • mbonzo

            Also put Buchholz ahead of Hughes and Burnett ahead of Matsuzaka.

        • candyforstalin

          man, this is just bad baseball analysis.

          • mbonzo

            Says the guy who compared JD Drew to Swisher.

            • candyforstalin

              when did i do that?

              • mbonzo

                Btw, Youkilis is an OBP guy who can’t run and only scored over 100 runs once in 2006. You might say thats not his roll, but he only had an RBI season over 100 once in 2008.
                You might say those stats are dependent on the team, but the Red Sox are far from an offensively weak team.
                Youkilis is overrated.

                • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

                  Saying Youkilis is overrated is batshit insane.

                  • mbonzo

                    I don’t get it then. How the hell do you compare him to Arod? The only number he’s got Arod beat on his OBP, which doesn’t mean much when you can’t score runs on a team like the Red Sox. I never said he wasn’t good, but if the majority of people here think he’s better than Arod he’s overrated.

                    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

                      It’s because of his age. A-rod isn’t in his prime anymore. He’s still a great player, way above replacement with incredibly ability. But you can’t pencil him in for 40 homers anymore. He’s come off his worst statistical year and has had trouble staying healthy. He had an .847 OPS last year.

                      Youkilis is still in his prime, he hovers around a .400 OBP every year and has enough power to post a .950+ OPS the previous two years.

                      And did you really just say his OBP doesn’t mean much when you can’t score runs? What?

                    • mbonzo

                      Youkilis isn’t young either. 32 might be his last “prime year”. And yes, I don’t think his OBP numbers mean much when he can’t score runs on an offensively potent team like the Red Sox. 34 year old, injured Arod posted more homeruns and rbis than Youkilis has ever had. Besides his OBP, which triggers his OPS, he’s got nothing on the 3 year older Arod.

    • candyforstalin

      you can add chieng-ming wang and javier vasquez to that. cashman was dealt a bad hand. your conclusion is wrong, though.

    • mike c

      the effectiveness of phil hughes negates the joba performance somewhat. i’m optimistic AJ will bounce back with a 4ish ERA this year

  • daniel aka bryce harper

    on offense

    cano>pedroia
    crawford>granderson (though they play different positions, i think their roles are relatively similar, so i compared them instead of gardy)
    A-gon slightly slightly >tex
    youk=arod
    papi probably >posada, but with papi you never know
    swisher >>>> drew.

    they improved, give them that. Yankees are still a formidable lineup.

    Also, yes, there are holes in our rotation. I would not feel great sending out lackey and certainly not dice-k every 5 days.

    • daniel aka bryce harper

      whoops, reply failure, intended for Matt.

    • candyforstalin

      in what world is youkilis = alex rodriguez?

      • daniel aka bryce harper

        youkilis>arod at this point, but still when you have a guaranteed 30/120 guy at least for the next couple years, the split isnt that far. Also, I don’t buy that youkilis is instantly going to transfer over to being a great defensive third baseman.

        • candyforstalin

          it isn’t that far, i agree. it’s about the same as swisher and drew, though. you can’t have both ways.

          • mbonzo

            Swisher in his prime and posting an .870 OPS and you think there is a small difference between Drew who will be 36 next year and OPSed .793?

            • candyforstalin

              youkilis in his prime and posting an .975 OPS and you think there is a small difference between alex rodriguez who will be 36 next year and OPSed .847?

              one year trends are a bitch.

              • mbonzo

                I like your use of bold but Youkilis isn’t a young stud. He had the potential to drive in as many RBIs and create as many runs as Arod but he hasn’t done it. He’s 32 in 2011 and has never posted a season of 30 homeruns, he’s got one season of 100 rbis and one season of 100 runs… on the Red Sox.

                In Arod’s 2010, at 34 produced more rbis and homeruns in a season filled with injuries than Youkilis has done in his career.

                • candyforstalin

                  it’s the woba, stupid. (i’m not actually calling you stupid.)

                  • mbonzo

                    Thanks for not calling me stupid.
                    I just see a guy with decent power and a great ability to get on base… but thats it. Despite this, he doesn’t have the speed to score runs and or the insane power to drive them in that Arod does. He just doesn’t get it done in my eyes.

        • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

          After all the money given to Crawford and Gonzalez, Youkilis isn’t going to take another team-friendly hometown discount either.

          • Sweet Dick Willie

            Unfortunately for him, he will be 35 the next time he is a FA, so he won’t be in a position to demand much of anything.

        • mbonzo

          Crawford should be compared to Gardner. Granderson has become more of a power hitter than an OBP/steal guy. Granderson beats Ellsbury and Crawford beats Gardner.

          Also, im taking Arod over Youkilis. Youk has never hit 30 homeruns and Arod hasn’t gone under in 13 years. Youkilis only had 1 year of over 100 RBIs, mostly because he’s an OBP guy… that said he’s only ever reached 100 runs scored in 2006 because he’s got no speed. He’s the greek god of walks, but with no speed and less pop than you’d want for the kind of player. Arod for the better power, speed, and stats (runs/rbis).

          • Mister Delaware

            Mariano > Mike Cameron

  • DJH

    I was just thinking it’s possible the Yanks “Plan B” for Lee is the same “Plan B” for Pettitte.

    I think the reason the Yanks want Martin is just because Montero is 21 not because they intend to deal him. I do however disagree that they would only deal Montero if they don’t sign Lee.

    A lot of people are assuming if we sign Martin it’s because the Yanks aren’t confident about Lee and there is a decent chance Montero gets dealt for pitching. How about this though maybe the Yanks know Pettitte is hanging it up and they want the option of using their best trade chip to fill a vacant rotation spot even if they do sign Lee.

    I’m not saying the Yanks are gunning for Lee + another top arm but I just don’t think that if NY lands Lee but Pettitte retires that they are ready to hand the 5th spot to just anyone. If they don’t get both LH’s they want it’s possible their backup plans are the same short list of pitchers.

  • icebird753

    The Angels seem to love Blue Jays pitchers..

  • mike c

    the carl crawford deal looks like it could get pretty ugly. when he loses his speed, he’ll be a decent LF, but definitely not for that money. vernon wells redux

    • TJ

      Agreed, overpaid badly with no one else reported to be close.

      • mike c

        i’d take the werth deal all day over crawford. for that deal i want some power or at least play decent CF. gardner’s a steal compared to that, pun intended

      • Xstar7

        Good thing the Yankes weren’t serious about him or they would have needed to offer much more. Which they could have easily.

        • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

          How do you know the Yankees taking him out to dinner didn’t affect the Red Sox timetable and offer to him?

          • Brian

            Agreed. I haven’t heard of any other offers outside of the Angels and Red Sox:

            Angels at 6/108, Bos at 7/142.

            Theo and the rest of the FO geniuses didn’t read the market well here and one can certainly make the argument that they jumped the gun to wrap this up before the Yanks could get involved. Kudos to Cashman.

  • DJH

    Teaxas giving Lee 7 yrs would be super irresponsible, I just get a feeling they will because these new owners want to look good and make a statement by beating the Steinbrenners at their own game. Four yrs from now they will probaly be screwed though, if they intend to field a competitive team at around 100M.

  • TJ

    “Levine said the decision is one that Lee’s entire family is involved in making, including Kristen, Lee’s wife.

    “It’s definitely a family decision and it should be,” Levine said. “When we sit there and make a presentation, Kristen is right there. She’s been central to the discussion and an active participant. That’s very important and one of the reasons we have such an affinity in that with Cliff comes Kristen and the whole family, and that bigger picture fits into the Texas Rangers and where we’re headed.” ”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas.....rs-for-lee

    If the wife’s that heavily involved, we’re screwed.

    • ZZ

      Baseball wives like money. A lot of it.

      • TJ

        They adore spitting too.

    • Kristen Lee

      Stop doing bad things in my heart

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      If the actions of a few drunk fans is enough motivation to sway her husband to leave millions of dollars on the table to stay in Texas then so be it. I’m sure everyone in Texas are perfect gentlemen and ladies.

      • TJ

        There are a-holes everywhere, but we all know NY has a special breed.

        • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

          There are special breeds of assholes? What do they do, hold special meetings about how to be a better asshole?

          • TJ

            LOL

          • Jimmy McNulty

            I direct them.

      • Mister Delaware

        Laura Bush killed a man.

    • bonestock94

      Definitely screwed, I heard she’s allergic to more money

    • mko

      Amber Sabathia will make it alright.

      • CP

        This.

        They’re apparently very close, and I would weigh that much more than a bad spitting incident.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Does Cliff Lee’s wife ever get involved in anything in any manner that can’t be described as “heavily”?

  • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

    DDoS attacks? THIS MEANS WAR, NOMAAS

    • Totes McGoates

      It was probably the gentlemen at 4chan who did it. ATTACK.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Not cool.

  • Salty Buggah

    RAB was attacked? The terriosts are winning.

  • TJ

    http://www.playerwives.com/mlb.....isten-lee/

    Have you seen his wife. She don’t look like she would take kindly to New Yorkers.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Seems like a little walking around Manhattan would do her some good. Oh snap!

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      “You do not deserve to be treated like that, and us pleasant, modest, charming folks in the Northeast would never subject a lady to that treatment. Come to Boston, Mr. and Mrs. Cliffy,… it’s a beautiful place.”

      o ok

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      She don’t look like she would take kindly to New Yorkers.

      Just out of morbid curiosity, what is the defining characteristic that makes one look like he/she would take kindly to New Yorkers?

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        tattoos. oh wait, those just give you a low pitching IQ… or something…

    • Esteban

      At the risk of some backlash, I’m surprised Cliff Lee’s wife looks like that.

      • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

        Lee’s not exactly the best-looking guy around either. I get it.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Take a look at John Lackey’s wfie…he should have just married a stripper like AJ and Damon did.

      • bonestock94

        He probably married her when he was a mediocre pitcher.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          Or maybe they like, love each other.

          • Mister Delaware

            Prediction: Kristen Lee has seen Clifflee naked.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

      How can she get mad fans hit her with spit, its harder not to hit her.

  • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

    I just bought a wallet for $50 today. Does this officially make me a real girl now? Do I have to stop watching baseball?

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Damn ponytails!!!

      I spent $75 on earrings. D:

      • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

        If only my Richard Simmons DVDs would arrive….

    • TJ

      Shoulda waited for xmas, you get the obligatory cheap gift one every year.

      • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

        I’m Jewish – hannukah already passed.

    • mbonzo

      Typically its other things that make you a girl… not buying wallets.

      • Monteroisdinero

        Jewish/female/Yankee fan

        Touch em all!

  • Totes McGoates

    On Twitter last night around 9 est when the press conference was announced, Yankee and Ranger fans were both overly pessimistic that their team wouldn’t sign Lee.

    This might make me certifiably insane by the time this over with.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      Seriously, it’s hilarious. But then things like teh CONFERENCE CALL happen and I nearly die about seventy-two times over (and I’m in the “I’d really really really like Lee, but if Texas offers him a ton of years and money and he takes that well good for him and I know Cashman did all he could, and I’m sure there’s a good backup plan” camp).

      • bonestock94

        Any backup plan sucks, because giving up “only” money will be 100x easier for us fans than gutting the farm. They’ll still have great pieces no doubt, but theres something really gratifying about all of that potential.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          theres something really gratifying about all of that potential.

          http://baseball.dailyskew.com/.....784967.jpg

          (Being a huge fucking downer here, apologies.)

          • bonestock94

            I’d rather have jobber than dudes that are on the LI Ducks 4-5 years down the road.

  • All Star Carl

    Man that conference call was hilarious.

    “We made an offer”

    He was better off saying “we just made a conference call”

  • Totes McGoates

    The funny thing is, both fan bases are incredibly paranoid/delusional/pessimistic about Lee’s Decision.

    The bridges in the NYC/Dallas FW metropolitan areas might wanna be on extra lookout in the coming days.

    • Totes McGoates

      Reply fail.

    • All Star Carl

      I just want him to pick a team (yankees) right now.

  • James A

    Player A: 328 PA’s, .230/.341/.486, .255 ISO, 19 homers and 9 steals, 0.62 BB/K, 2.2 UZR/150 in the OF
    Player B: 295 PA’s, .210/.295/.346, .136 ISO, 10 homers and 6 steals, 0.45 BB/K, 0.1 UZR/150 in the OF

    Player A is 33 years old and made $500,000 last year, Player B is 30 and made $2.45 million last year
    Both are free agents who could be fourth outfielders/fill the Marcus Thames role
    Player A: Andruw Jones
    Player B: Scott Hairston
    I’d rather have Andruw

    • bonestock94

      Holy crap, Andruw Jones is an FA? Had no clue, that guy totally fell off the radar when he fell of a cliff. He kills lefties apparently.

      • All Star Carl

        Remember when he was knocking Javy all over Yankee Stadium?

        • bonestock94

          Vaguely…all those bad javy appearances kinda meshed together for me.

    • mbonzo

      Player C: 412 PA’s, .277/.332/.380, 4 homers and 5 steals, 0.45 BB/K, -1.2 UZR/150 in the OF (though scewed)

      Player C is 25 and made $452,000 last year
      He’s a free agent who could be a fourth outfielder. His UZR is scewed because his coach plays fielders oddly. He can steal bases and be used to steal late in the game. He’s got some very high upside.

      Player C: Lastings Milledge

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Jones actually got paid an additional $3.2 million last year in deferred money from the Dodgers, but yeah.

      Andruw actually turned down an offer from the Yankees in 2009 to compete for an OF job. He still thinks he’s a starter apparently, so I’m not sure he’d be willing to come now.

      • mbonzo

        Why wouldn’t he? Who’s gonna give him a starting OF job?

        • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

          If Melky Cabrera and Jeff Francoeur can get outfield jobs, so can Andruw.

          • mbonzo

            They didn’t get guaranteed starting OF jobs, they’re also not 33.

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    Im just in awe of how much big time trolling happened over the past 2 days.

    Twitter exploded about the conference call

    Michael Kay got duped by a fake Jon Heyman.

    #MysteryTeam

    #MysteryFriend

  • Wes

    WOW! Hahahaha, how great is this article?

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......-a-yankee/

    • Januz

      Hank should keep his mouth shut: He sounds like an arrogant blowhard (Not to mention the fact he is why the Yankees are stuck with the Arod contract).
      Here is the way I see it for Lee: He went to back to back Series and LOST both. If he ends up signing with a team that does not win a Championship, then he will regret his actions for the rest of his life (The team that signed him (Particularly if it is Texas) will be even worse off, spending $23m or so for 7 years with no title to show for it). I love this quote: “The Ring Validates Your Career” (Elvin Hayes). That about says it all.

  • mbonzo

    Joba has the total makeup of a reliever in this picture.

    http://queenofsports.com/wp-co.....kees-P.jpg

    Can’t believe he could be the setup man in 2011… sorry thats the face of a 5th starter.

    • All Star Carl

      Joba looks like the old wrestler Earth Quake.

    • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

      the “Brian Wilson” is catching on!

  • Totes McGoates

    Another team in the mix for Lee?

    http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....2348050432

    Crap.

    • Mark

      Is that mystery team 1, 2, or another team that can become mystery team 3?

    • DJH

      That’s good news, he’s saying TX only offered Lee 6 yrs. I don’t see him turning down the Yanks 7 if that is the case.

      Heyman also said in another tweet the Yanks might consider Greinke if they don’t get Lee, which is only worth mentioning because he was saying before they most likely would not.

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      Another team in the mix for Lee?

      Yawn.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      If they want to offer Lee more $ and years than the Yankees, they can have him.

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    Dear Hank Steinbrenner, shut up.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Eh, he really didn’t say anything that bad or stupid.

      • candyforstalin

        it’s a prophylactic kind of thing.

        • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

          I lol’d sooo hard at this!

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    I had a funny ass night. :D

  • Teh Comp Pick

    Heyman’s tweet scares me, the way he says liked, instead of like:

    favored #yankees have offered more $, 1 more guaranteed yr than #rangers. but c. lee liked texas, has 3rd team in mix. story soon on si.com

    Almost like its already done, and he’s just waiting to break it.

    • Teh Comp Pick

      Piece up, just a typo I guess.

      • Teh Comp Pick

        must have meant likes or he liked playing in texas

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

      Here’s the actual article. Read it, y’all. I mean, caveat lector and all, but read it.

  • Big Bertha

    I don’t care if the Yankees have to go to an 8th year and $30 more million, just get the deal done. With all the moves the Red Sox have made there’s just no way we can beat them without Cliff Lee. We’ll be blown out of the water with a rotation of CC-Hughes-AJ-Mitre-Rasner.

    • candyforstalin

      i say this is one of the rab writers trying to spike pageview numbers.

      • Big Bertha

        I wish! Seriously though, they did offer me one of the weekend jobs but I got a better offer elsewhere and had to turn them down.

        • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

          um…

          • mbonzo

            If it was with Wikileaks I hope you’re not planning on the whole not being in jail thing.

    • mbonzo

      Red Sox just replaced 2 very good offensive players with 2 more very good offensive players. If the Yankees replaced Swisher and Cano (kinda comparable to the 2010s of Martinez and Beltre) with AGon and Crawford I wouldn’t exactly be convinced the team was unbeatable. Red Sox are gonna be good competition but are far from the big deal the medias making this out to be.

      • FIPster Doofus

        The media’s done a nice job of sweeping the departures of V-Mart and Beltre completely under the rug. A-Gon/Crawford is absolutely a better tandem, but Martinez and Beltre combined for 11 fWAR last season. That’s obviously a pretty significant number.

        • mbonzo

          For 2010
          Beltre and Martinez= 11.1
          Gonzalez and Crawford= 12.2
          Better but nothing to wave the white flag over.

          To put this in perspective
          Vazquez= -.2
          Lee= 7.1

          Guarantee people would still say the Red Sox had a much better offseason even when they gain 7.3 WAR to 1.1 WAR.

          • FIPster Doofus

            Exactly.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Do you really think Youkilis and Pedroia will miss 650 PAs again? If Beckett’s healthy that’s another huge boost.

            • mbonzo

              You never know what will happen, but the Yankees had injuries too.

              Andy Pettitte and Josh Beckett both starter only 21 games in 2010.

              Arod missed about 100 PAs
              Granderson missed about 120 PAs
              Posada missed about 200 PAs
              Swisher missed about 40 PAs
              I also seem to remember some DH on the team named Nick Johnson missing 9872348762340923 PAs.

              Yankees weren’t as injured, but unlike Boston, thats never an excuse here.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                A-Rod is an aging third basemen with a shitty hip who was a former roider (no clue about how this effects him)

                Granderson, should get healthier…yeah, that’s true.

                Posada is a 39 year old catcher with several injury problems, so I don’t think that can be directly compared to Youkilis/Pedroia…Nick Johnson has already injury issues.

                • Jerkface

                  Youkilis has a history of injuries and has never even played a full season. Is now moving to a more stressful position.

                  Pedroia is coming off a hurt foot, so look for him to blow out his shoulder.

      • Xstar7

        The only real difference is the Red Sox lineup has sexier names in it now. It’s not necessarily much better.

  • mbonzo

    So NY offers Cliff Lee more money, more years, more endorsements, his pal CC.

    The media says, “Now wait a minute, don’t forget about the taxes in New York and the spitting fans, wife hates spitters.”

    Isn’t it obvious Lee will be a Yankee, I FEEL LIKE I’M ON CRAZY PILLS!

    • mbonzo

      I don’t know how I forgot that if Lee signs with Texas he’ll only be 5.5 hours away from his house in Little Rock. They’re like right next to each other.

  • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

    Theo Epstein could put most Yankee fans on suicide watch by signing Lee.

    I don’t think they quite have the cojones for that, though.

    • mbonzo

      No he’s sneaky and will only bring that payroll up to $178m, the luxury tax cap. They want to pretend like they are a small market team and avoid paying taxes on their huge salary. I wish that luxury tax cap would be about $100m.

    • FIPster Doofus

      He shouldn’t have blown his wad on Lackey last year. Or, for that matter, Beckett’s extension. Take one or both of them out of the equation, and Lee to the Red Sox would have been a very real possibility.

      • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

        I’m just glad their prime directive is ‘spend less than the luxury tax’, because if they really did spend like the Yankees (and they can no doubt afford to), they’d be a hell of a lot more dangerous of a ball club.

        • mbonzo

          They just can’t afford it. Adding Lee would bring them up to about $195m or so after arbitration and bonuses this year, plus the luxury tax on that would be about $20m. Its basically move the payroll from $170m to $215m for Lee.

          • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

            Eh, they can get fancy with signing bonuses (FWIW Crawford gets a $6M bonus and makes $14M in 2011) and backloading and remain under the luxury tax.

            They can definitely afford it, and if George ran that team you know they’d absolutely do it.

            And then they’d truly be unbeatable.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

              And then they’d truly be unbeatable.

              Everyone knows no team is unbeatable. (I don’t just mean that for Boston with Lee, but every team. The 116-win Seattle Mariners lost in five games to the 2001 Yankees, an inferior team.)

              • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

                Well, okay. You can add ‘nigh’ to that.

      • candyforstalin

        no way he gives 7y to a 32yo pitcher.

        • FIPster Doofus

          I’d rather give seven years to Lee than a combined eight to Beckett and Lackey.

          • mbonzo

            Beckett is one guy I don’t get. He’s had 1 phenomenal year with the Red Sox but he’s inconsistent. Red Sox fans love him which doesn’t make sense to me, he cost the team Hanley Ramirez! If I had to choose between Hanley and Beckett I’d kick you in the teeth for such a stupid question. I know he was kinda a question mark back in 2006 but Boston writers always talk about what a great trade it was for the Red Sox because of the 2007 WS. No, you lost a franchise shortstop for Beckett, stop trying to create a fantasy world…
            /rantover

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

              Red Sox fans love him which doesn’t make sense to me

              2007. You win a WS and a lot of things get swept under the rug. They’re definitely a lot more hostile toward him now, though. While I’d rather have Hanley than Beckett, I can understand not having horrendous regrets about the whole thing.

              • Sweet Dick Willie

                You win a WS and a lot of things get swept under the rug.

                ::cough AJ cough::

                • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

                  Yankee fans sure were a lot quicker to turn on AJ than Red Sox fans were on Beckett. Maybe because Beckett was just plagued by injuries and inconsistency in 2008 and 2009 whereas AJ was downright bad.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      That would make the Yankees signings before the 2009 season look like a trip to the dollar store. $450 million+ in one off season? Yikes!

      • mbonzo

        Didn’t the Yankees pay $425m for Burnett, Teixeira, and Sabathia in 2008?

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      Theo Epstein could put most Yankee fans on suicide watch by signing Lee.

      I seriously doubt Theo has the budget for that now, but what if he had gone after Lee instead of Crawford?

      From a Yankees fan perspective, a rotation of Lee, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz and Lackey would be very scary.

      And from a Sux fan perspective, I would rather have that rotation and an OF of Ellsbury, Cameron & Drew instead of Crawford and Dice-K.

      • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

        Imagine if they signed Sabathia too, instead of extending Beckett and Lackey? And signed Matt Holliday last year instead of…oh, whatever, they extract such an incredible amount of money out of the fanbase it’s not even funny.

        Lee/Sabathia/Lester/Buchholz/whocares. And then think of the lineup.

        Damn am I glad they don’t spend the way they can afford to. Thank you John Henry for being you.

        • candyforstalin

          imagine there’s no heaven, it’s easy if you try.

  • Dr. O

    I watched about 5 minutes of MLB Network earlier, they were struggling mightily to contain their giddiness over the idea that Cliff Lee could turn down The Yankees.

    Speaking of as well, did I miss the season where Carl Crawford was ever the best LF in baseball? They acted as if the Red Sox had signed Ted Williams reincarnated in the body of a super athletic black man. He’s a talented player, but people need to calm the excitement that The Red Sox have just setup their “Ortiz-Manny” for the next decade or something.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      If Adrian Gonzalez stays they do have a roided David Ortiz type bat.

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        Still missing the Manny type bat.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Youkilis.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

            the Red Sox lineup is very good but Gonzalez/Youk isn’t Manny/Papi.

            • mbonzo

              Not enough steroids left over for those guys.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              Gonzo once put up a .400 wOBA while paying half of his games in PetCo…just think what that guy will do in Fenway? Youkilis has had a wOBA over .400 the past three seasons too. They may not be the same as Manny/Ortiz, but they’re pretty damn close. They also don’t have the defensive issues that Manny and Ortiz had, so the combination of Youkilis and Gonzalez is probably more valuable than Ramirez/Ortiz.

              • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

                I think Gonzalez is gonna kill it at Fenway. That said, Manny and Papi had over .400 wOBAs every damn year they were on the Red Sox together, except Manny had a .375 in 2007. Funnily enough, the year where they were probably at their craziest together was 2006…

                They also don’t have the defensive issues that Manny and Ortiz had

                Manny was a huge defensive issue, obviously, but Ortiz rarely played the field (minus interleague and etc.).

                • Jimmy McNulty

                  Meaning that they actually contribute on the other side of the field.

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      A Boston blog actually posted a graphic that implied they thought Crawford will be better than Roberto Clemente.

      The groupthink, it burns.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Maybe 1955-1960 Clemente. Certainly not 1961-1972 Clemente.

      • Xstar7

        Fuck No

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        Fun fact:

        Carl Crawford’s best year BA and OBP is less than Clemente’s career averages.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        I heard so much “Crawford = Rickey Henderson” stuff from even before he signed, which is insane. Now I’m starting to hear Tim Raines – that’s also insane. Raines was an excellent OBP guy who was supposedly not that good defensively (I can’t remember, but bWAR doesn’t seem to hate him).

        Not all black guys who steal bases are the same you idiots.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          It’s Boston, the fans probably won’t be able to tell him and Cameron apart.

      • Accent Shallow

        What the hell does Crawford have in common with Clemente?

        Clemente was a Puerto Rican RF who had a cannon for an arm, hit right-handed, and hit the ball hard.

        Crawford is an African-American LF with a rag arm, who’s noted for his speed, although he’s a good hitter for average and power.

        They’re not similar players in style. All they have in common is a) baseball and b) skin tone.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          They all like like Janitors to Bostonians.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      “I watched about 5 minutes of MLB Network earlier, they were struggling mightily to contain their giddiness over the idea that Cliff Lee could turn down The Yankees.”

      Joe Mcgrane basically admitted that there are ppl all over baseball that would like to see Lee stay with the Rangers. These other clubs and ppl in general like to see the Yankees lose in PS or miss out on a player. I wonder if they would be as giddy if the Yankees no longer existed and there was no team that plays the role of the “bad guy”

      • Xstar7

        They would find a new bad guy. Probably the Cardinals.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          Not the team with the greatest fans in baseball!

          • Xstar7

            Cardinals fans are the best in baseball? But Hal Steinbrenner said the Yankees have the
            best fans.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              The Cardinals do have amazing fans…they’re very rarely rude, even when the rival Cubs come in town they rarely boo and are awfully polite to even opposing fans. The Yankees definitely have the most dedicated fans in baseball, IMO.

              • Xstar7

                Do the Cardinals fans have any distinctive chants or traditions anything like the Yankees though?

                • Jimmy McNulty

                  I don’t think so…I’ve been to Busch field only a few times. Nice place, nice people…great fans. Very polite, very warm to all the players. Like they’d be nice to even Javy there.

                  • Xstar7

                    And their blogs aren’t full of nonsense. I respect the Cardinals more than any other team besides the Yankees and the Giants.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          They would all realize that the Yankees are one of the few teams that the nation actually cares about.

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      If you hate Boston splooge-fests, don’t read this article:

      http://bostonherald.com/sports.....position=0

      Look at the picture of the author. You can just TELL he thinks he’s smart by association.

      • Xstar7

        That article was disgusting. I hate the Red Sux and their fans.

      • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

        He’s an absolute douche who should have been fired when he ran with the bogus “Pats taped the Rams walkthrough” story.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        It’s now clear just how true those words were. In the last week, Epstein has proven with finality that he’s no kid anymore. Just a few days shy of his 37th birthday, his youthful features have been replaced by a more hardened weariness. His hair features specks of gray. Wrinkles crease his eyes like formerly dog-eared pages.

        He is a man now. And he is the most unstoppable force in baseball.

        Oh my God.

        • FIPster Doofus

          I actually lol’d.

  • Januz

    I think the mystery team is a total fantasy designed to trick Texas into a 7th year. I am so sick of Lee, his agent Boras jr, and their games, I would actually prefer him in Texas than pitching for the Yankees. He has reached the standard of contempt that I have for Gerrit Cole, Ray Lewis (I am a MAJOR Steeler fan) & Jonathan Paplebon (The reason I rooted for SF in the Series, was Dave Righetti’s chance to get a ring……………. Now I am extra happy the Giants won because of Lee losing twice).

    • Jimmy McNulty

      I hope Ray Lewis kicks your ass. I love the dude. Not even a Ravens fan…dude’s so intense and kills people. I love it.

      • RuleroftheBones86

        hoping that was sarcastic, but on second thought your surname is McNUTly.

  • Reggie C.

    Hold the line Cashman!

    No going beyond 7 years. If Lee “likes Texas” then there’s no point in upping the offer. He would be accepting less money, and apparently, one less guaranteed year.

  • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

    I’m young, so I don’t remember at all… but in 2002, how the hell did the BBWAA determine that Alex Rodriguez wasn’t as good as MIGUEL TEJADA?!?!

    What the hell?

    • ChrisR

      Oakland was a playoff team at the time, so +50 MVP votes for him

    • mbonzo

      The writers that year thought Tejada deserved it more because he led his team to the postseason. Writers have gotten better but they’re still dumb as dirt.

      • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

        No less than a 3 WAR difference between the two. THREE!

        • mbonzo

          If you want to get really mad take a look at what Jim Thome did that year and where he ended up on the MVP list.

          I was kinda young in 2002 also and didn’t follow baseball too much. I remember looking at the MVP vote in the AL a couple years ago and saying, stupid writers. Then I looked at the NL vote and practically fainted looking at Bonds numbers.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      Very easy: Oakland was a playoff team and the Rangers were terrible.

      (Thome got ridiculously screwed too. And who the hell was giving Soriano first place votes?)

      • mbonzo

        Players better than Thome and his 1.112 OPS
        Alfonso Soriano – .880 OPS
        Garret Anderson – .871 OPS
        Torii Hunter – .859 OPS
        Miguel Tejada – .861 OPS

        I love Torii Hunter as a player, he’s got a great love for the game, but damn is/was that dude overrated. Career -.2 UZR and .803 OPS.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          To be fair, you have to adjust for position and blah blah blah, but yeah, those players were not better than Thome even if they were 2Bs, SSes, and CFs.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Torii Hunter is just Mike Cameron with a bigger smile. Hunter is totally overrated, Cameron totally underrated.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Was that the year that Tejada had like 150 RBIs too? That probably had a lot to do with it, if that was the case.

        • mbonzo

          131 Rbis, but Arod had 142.

  • http://www.bleedingyankeeblue.blogspot.com the mighty casey

    http://bleedingyankeeblue.blog.....-tick.html

    all i want for christmas is lee and martin

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Ditto. A Heritage H157 a VMNT, or a C-7 Hellraiser in addition wouldn’t be bad either.

      Greedy asshole, I know.

    • mbonzo

      My mom keeps asking me if I’d like anything for Christmas and I keep asking for Lee. As a Mets fan all she promises me is Boof Bonser.

    • candyforstalin

      zooey deschanel. wrapped. with a bow.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Zooey < Allison Brie.

        • mbonzo

          Id take Emma Watson over both of them, even with the short hair.

          Christina Hendricks is up there too.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            FFS Christina Hendricks isn’t even the same type of chick as Brie or Zooey. Or Emma Watson.

            • mbonzo

              Katy Perry then?

              • Jimmy McNulty

                You’re fucking with me right?

                • candyforstalin

                  i was gonna say. carey mulligan does it, though.

                • mbonzo

                  What am I doing WRONG!?

                  • Jimmy McNulty

                    Zooey, Brie, and Emma are the pretty “downhome” types of girls. Whereas Katy Perry and Christina Hendricks are whores with great big giant amazing tits.

                    • mbonzo

                      How about Elisha Cuthbert or Kristen Bell?

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      Different types all together. Bell may be able to cross over to the Brie/Zooey zone, but Cuthbert lost that a looooong time ago.

                  • candyforstalin

                    this is girls you’d want to pepper their bellies with baby kisses. not girls you’d want to fuck.

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      Tearing apart the innocent types is by far and away the most gratifying thing that life has to offer.

                    • candyforstalin

                      that’s too darwinian for me.

                    • Accent Shallow

                      I have a mandolin
                      I play it all night long
                      It makes me want to kill myself

                    • candyforstalin

                      a pretty girl is like a violent crime
                      if you do it wrong you could do time
                      but if you do it right it is sublime

          • Totes McGoates

            Emma Watson is even prettier in person than she is via photographs.. I didn’t even think that was humanly possible.

            • mbonzo

              She’s such a babe, totally classy and intellectual too. British accent doesn’t hurt either.

  • Mr Moss

    Bugger!!!!

    Lee has chosen Texas…which means no Pettitte

    • Jerome S

      no false breaking news. Can’t find it. Got a link somewhere?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        It’s Mr. Moss. Though if this is true I’m taking a shit on the Alamo the next time I’m in Texas.

        • Jerome S

          I can’t find it. It appears to be false.

        • Hank Hill: Propane Salesman

          I can’t let you do that son. If it makes you feel better I always liked the Astros more than the Rangers.

    • FIPster Doofus

      Easy decision. Everything’s bigger in Texas, including the ramps.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Have you seen Kirsten Lee? I’d be worried if things get bigger.

        • FIPster Doofus

          http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-c.....e_1027.jpg

          She looks thin there. I’ve seen some other pics where that wasn’t the case, but those were back from the Lees’ Cleveland days.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            In that “Indians Wife” photo she looked a lil big.

            • mbonzo

              I remember reading somewhere that she was actually stunning in person, just looked bad in pictures.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                Yeah and in the Cleveland days the clothes made her look fat.

              • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

                Yeah, I have that problem too.

          • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

            What is wrong with her SKIN?

        • Mr Moss

          She a rhino alright.but that beast makes the decisions for the Lee family.

    • Xstar7

      Say it ain’t so Mo!

  • Accent Shallow

    Cliff Lee plan B:

    Propose minor trade with the Red Sox. (Say, this guy for this guy.)

    Once you have Theo’s signature, fudge the paperwork so you’re trading for Jon Lester. Cheaper than Lee, and likely to be better in 2013 and onwards.

    • Jerome S

      LESTER CAN’T HANDLE IT IN NY or something.

    • mbonzo

      If you’re gonna be fudging paperwork, you might as well just fudge the signature. I don’t understand how fudge can taste so good and also be such a great tool for stealing baseball players.

      • Accent Shallow

        Disagree. See, I figure the paperwork is just boilerplate, with fill-in spaces for names/signatures. Of course, you’d TYPE “Jon Lester”, whereas presumably the Red Sox would use some sort of signature for Epstein/other front office personnel.

        • mbonzo

          I get what you’re saying now. BUT what if the Yankees instead did the same thing with the Padres and obtained Casey Kelly. Then asked the Red Sox to trade him for Jon Lester. BUT instead of giving them Casey Kelly, they give them Casey Kelley. Then we have Jon Lester and Casey Kelly and win the next 10 World Series.

          http://www.baseball-reference......lley001cas

  • Wes

    HEYMAN AND SOURCE SAYS LEE TO YANKS IS “FAIT ACCOMPLI” (French for guaranteed fact)

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Where?

    • Teh Comp Pick

      No Such Tweet where you pulling that from????

      • Wes

        http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....cliff.lee/

        The article paints a very favorable picture of Lee heading to Yanks.

        • Eric Young

          It didn’t read favorably at all. It didn’t say anything. What it was was filler because he had a deadline.

          “…merely the opinion of a non-participant” is reporter-speak for “this is what some guy I was sitting next to said.”

  • China Joe

    I remember there was a time when the word on Texas was that they had to throw extra money at free agent pitchers to pitch in that 110 degree heat in that hitter’s park.

    Funny now how that consensus has changed.

    • Xstar7

      It’s changed because now they’re good. One thing I don’t understand about the Rangers though: They’re always wearing their road uniforms.

      • China Joe

        They were good in the late 90′s, they were loaded offensively through most of the last decade, but they couldn’t get pitchers.

        • China Joe

          Oh my bad, they got Chan Ho Park…hahaha

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    Crawford’s deal is backloaded, which makes it very shitty for Boston in years 6 and 7.

    • candyforstalin

      it’s not really a backloaded contract.

    • candyforstalin

      paying manny 2m for the next 16 years is a nice touch, though.

    • http://twitter.com/JoeRo23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      It’s not as simple as that – you have to account for time/value of money and inflation. In general, teams want backloaded deals.

      • matt

        Absolutely, just to bring the point home, technically, if one can assume the absence of deflation over the life of the deal (little scary that one may not be able to so assume right this second, though I’d def argue that you can), a backloaded deal, in every instance, decreases the present value of the contract, and that’s a zero sum game, the player loses value in every case by virtue of not having the backloaded cash to put to work immediately on earning on a return, the club gains value (to what extent it increases, or, alternatively, at least preserves that value depending on its financing decisions and the return it’s able to earn on the cash that, by virtue of the backloading, is available to be invested immediately). BTW, Mondesi, this isn’t directed at you (nor at any other particular poster), you of all folks don’t need any finance lectures. This is just stuff that everyone should understand if even just for the sake of their personal finances.

        Bottom line is you discount all future cash flows at a certain discount rate, which, put simply, is usually the cost of capital, which for an individual, is the rate at which one can borrow, i.e. the interest rate, hence the role of expectations re: inflation in calculating present values.

  • candyforstalin

    a little song about yankee fans (here)

  • Biff Lee

    So who here would let cliff lee piss on their face in exchange for a committment to the yankees? Theres no shame in it, I would.

    • mbonzo

      W…T…F…?!

    • bonestock94

      A fun little anecdote and a badass rotation for years. Something to consider.

  • Biff Lee

    See I didn’t even think of it like that. To sit around Christmas dinner and triumphantly announce to the family that, hey, Cliff Lee signed with the yankees not because the 161 million dollars, no friends, he signed because I allowed him to let loose a stream of 100 percent Arkansan piss on me. Yeah, now that, would be a hell of a story.

  • James A

    This whole thing is simple, Lee and his agent know that the Rangers have already overextended themselves and arent going to up their offer, but if the Yankees start to panic they could conceivably up their offer. The longer he waits, the more stories build up about how he wants to stay in Texas, the more the Yankees might worry. If he really wanted to go to Texas he wouldve picked them already given this is the best offer they have. That being said, its making me nervous as shit

    • Biff Lee

      Yeah that’s interesting and everything, but what about the pissing?

      • Mike R

        Agreed. I think the pissing idea seems pretty solid.

  • http://bugsy117@aol.com bugsy

    if they dont get lee thank cash for not adding nunez in the deal in mid summer which cost the yankees a shot at world series.plan b trade the farm for grienke a guy with social anxity? we already have a head case with burnett , maybe we can get knobloch back at second and piersal in left. bottom line cash is awful from shilling on as far as pithing goes he always a step behind.

    • http://twitter.com/JoeRo23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      I find it totally unsurprising, and pretty awesome, that bugsy has an aol email address.

  • Monteroisdinero

    Checking out Yogi’s stats. Came up at 21 but didn’t catch over 100 games until 23 and finished catching at 38. I’d say we can be patient with Jesus but do not trade him.

    Please?

    • MikeD

      I’m with you. There seems to be this all-or-nothing approach with people’s thinking on Montero. Make him the every-day catcher, or trade him for a pitcher. If the Yankees are interested in Wilson, the assumption seems to be they don’t think he can cut it defensively.

      There’s a middle ground here. They want an experienced catcher to help break Montero in. Posada was going to be that guy, but his defense took too big a hit in 2010, so now he’s the DH. I don’t think it’s realistic to assume a kid who just turned 21 a couple weeks back and has never swung a bat or caught a single pitcher by a major leaguer is suddenly going to walk in and catch 140 games for a team whose goal is to make the World Series. It can happen, but transitions are common. Posada, Berra to name two. Munson came straight in, but it’s easier to do that when the team sucks!

      • MikeD

        Martin, not Wilson. Have no idea who Wilson is!

      • matt

        Martin would be an awfully nice little signing. You get that done, you have the luxury of having Jesus really compete for the job in ST but with the understanding that he’s really competing to start to part of the job in early May. So say he comes up with 130 games left, he’ll catch roughly 65 of those and probably be slotted into the DH spot roughly 30 times (even as a full time DH, I don’t see Jorge giving 650 PAs, fine to rest him every fourth day or so). To me, as such a young kid and a catching prospect, having Jesus start 95-100 MLB games on top of a month at Trenton is plenty in terms of his development. If the bat is so sick you can’t keep him out of the lineup, nice problem to have. But in theory you can imagine Martin starting 95-100 games behind the dish and coming in in the late innings in probably 40 more games. Of course, all this depends on whether Martin’s any good any more, but if you can sell him on the above, that in that arrangement, he’s the starting catcher, unquestionably worth a flier, even at decent money. 27 year old catchers with strong defensive rep and those kinds of .OBP numbers don’t grow on trees.

        I say you try and essentially roll with a bench of (1) Martin/Montero, (2) S. Hairston (I think he’s a great fit, a Thames type who might actually catch a ball that’s not just a lazy pop requiring zero movement in any direction); (3) Nunez/Pena and (4) B. Laird (needs to rediscover his discipline at the plate, but I’d give him every opportunity to get some time at all four corners, I think this club really needs to try to find some potential pop in their backup 3B.

        I think Bill Hall is worthy of a long long look too, though no way they pony up for both Hall and Hairston even if they could get them both,but the rationale for Hall, of course, is he can play literally nearly anywhere on the field competently, nice UZR/150s at each of 2B, SS, 3B, LF and CF, oddly enough awful in right, almost certainly SS – which cuts both ways certainly. He’s so flexible defensively that he really fills two bench spots by himself, leaving that last slot for the team to take a flier on a one skill guy, e.g. a Branyan type, true power off the bench, or on a young guy who’s disappointed thus far, ala Milledge.

  • ramez hanna

    latest news ,the rangers offered lee a 5 year deal for 100 mil with a vesting option which would make it a 7 year deal
    welcome lee to the yankee heaven

    • Mike Myers

      Source please. I dont see the $ amount anywhere

  • jamie

    go to texas cliff…

    This isnt just about 2011, its baout every year thereafter. No way should the yanks be paying him 20+m in 2017, when he’s 38.
    His fastball is only 91/92mph now….what will it be by 2017….not worth 20+m thats for sure.

    So the rotation would struggle with Burnett at #2….thats the risk/mistake they made a few years back. Dont go covering up that mistake with another.

    And dont go get Grienke either. He hasnt the balls to handle NYC. Plus, the deal would have to include Montero. Grienke would struggle and then Cashman would end up trading him off for less value than a catcher with great hitting ability.

  • zoudini

    So Quentin may be available for bullpen help? Any value?

  • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

    Reading Twitter, Lee is either going to accept a 7-year, $155M deal from Texas, or a 10-year, $1 BILLION dollar deal from Texas, or some 8-year deal from the Angels.

  • matt

    Do I like the idea of Cliff Lee for 7 years at $160? Not particularly at all. But they’ve got to do it anyway – ideally, IMHO, structured the same as CC’s deal, with the opt-out after year three. Unquestionably, those kinds of opt-outs virtually always the benefit the player and cost the club extra bucks, which is the whole point in the first place. But the reason I do like it in this particular case is one can imagine a world where the Yanks don’t need Lee after three years (of course, the way these things work, if that’s the case, he probably won’t be opting out but anyway) – but I damn well know they need him these next three seasons. I have one concern about Cliff Lee, that being that backs are tricky animals. I’ve been resistant to the point of nonsensical in truly buying into Cliff Lee, but I’ve gotten there. To have a lefty who can throw four true plus pitches for strikes in any count, essentially command both sides of the plate at will, spot his FB to every quadrant, neutralize righties by running the cutter in and then going away with the change, not to mention always having that filthy curve in his back pocket, terrific velocity differentials, even great hitters don’t have a chance when he’s making his pitches, just no way to cover that much plate with so little sense of what’s gonna be thrown. I’d take Doc and King Felix first, but that’s it. Guy is the definition of an ace (including his being an absolute horse) and he’s actually a late bloomer, he’s only three years removed from being totally broken down in AAA. Very little concern about how he’ll age – lefty, plus plus (plus) command of all your pitches, no free passes, keeps the ball in the yard, controls the running game, and while he can certainly induce plenty of them, his success isn’t totally correlated with his swing and miss rate – all signs that point to a guy who if healthy, is gonna be really good for a really long time. Not to mention – and this is why Cash has gotta find a way to get Andy to bite on one more year – the Sox new dream lineup, while admittedly featuring two superior additions, also just got about as left-handed as you can get. Youk and Pedroia are about it from the right as things stand (pending on who plays CF, I’m assuming it’s gonna be Ellsbury unless they want to platoon Cameron, and whoever they run out there at catcher). That lineup while not as dynamic was more balanced with Beltre/VMart. Yeah they’re lefties are good lefties, they’re tough on anyone, but gosh give me CC, Cliff and Andy against that bunch any day; whereas the Yanks maintain tremendous balance with three big-time switch hitters, Grandy, Cano and Gardy from the left, Arod (Captain Jetes? here’s hoping) and quite possibly Jesus from the right. So 7/161, I’ll deal, it’s a better contract than Crawford’s, barring unforeseen injuries, I’d put good money on that. Carl makes them more scary today but gosh, seven years for a player so dependent on his legs just to get his .OBP to an acceptable – not strong – level, they better hope his power is going to continue to come. FWIW, career OPS+: Granderson 113, Crawford 107; Crawford doesn’t have quite the lefty split, but still OPSs under .700 against LHPs for his career. Not to mention unless he’s gonna play center, which I hadn’t seen, correct me if I’m wrong, Grandy’s doing that from the more premium position while at the same time the Monster mitigates some of Crawford’s range value. A-Gon is scary, no issues locking him up for at least Tex money. Crawford was gonna get bis thanks to Werth but that deal is pretty batshit insane, anything beyond four years is getting a little crazy.

    And maybe I’m wrong, but I still think you can fit Lee for his stripes now. Anyone who’s ever negotiated anything knows that the argument “if he was coming to NY, it’d be done” carries zero water. Infinitely more significant was his refusal to tell TX what it’d take to sign him, but rather insist on them just presenting their best offer. If there was ever gonna be a clue that he either (a) had a preference for TX or (b) wasn’t simply going to take the best deal – and TX can take about the income tax, which isn’t nearly as simple as folks think it is, and vesting options and menus, they’re not going 7/161, he’d have just told TX what they needed to go to get it done. Also bear in mind that there were reports from multiple sources re: Lee being absolutely furious with Jack Z. when told he wasn’t going to NY but rather to TX – his wife and Mrs. CC were already house hunting. This is really his first and maybe his last real shot at a mega free agent deal. Dude wants to be a star, he’s got NY written all over him. Notion that he’ll take less for the privilege of tossing in 110 degree weather in a pitcher’s park is, I think and hope, silly. And in terms of his actually looking at how he’s handled this process, every indicator without exception points in the direction of hiss having no particular affinity for staying in TX.

    • Dave

      Re: option comment – that would depend on whether it’s a player option or team option.

      Re: claim that there’s “very little concern about how he’ll age.” Really? Guy had 3 cortisone injections in his back in 2010. Anyone with any recurring back injuries (see 2007) carries with them a modicum of “concern” of a chronic issue (hi Kevin Brown).

      Re: A 7-year deal to Lee is better than a 7-year deal to Crawford “barring unforseen injuries.” Ummmm, isn’t that the whole point? The albatross associated with 7-year deals IS “unforseen injuries” and their direct correlation to deterioration and diminishing skills. They BOTH have risks, BUT you’ve seen the best there is to see from Lee. There is still a chance for Crawford to actually become a BETTER player.

      Re: 110 degree weather in pitcher’s park. Arlington is a pitcher’s park? Really?

  • BuyNBye

    HAL/BRIAN:
    I would be down with the Yanks signing RUSSELL BRANYAN as a bench player. He can play 1st, 3rd, and Out Field. He’s hit a ton of homers at the stadium, including one off the window of Mohegan Sun (the black backdrop) and one into the 4th deck in Right Field. Neither has been done before, of since. He could fill in at any of the three positions and we don’t miss a beat, in fact we add to it. “WE NEED MORE MUSCLE”!!! Let’s Roll On This One.

    • Dave

      That would be nice for the bench, but he’s gonna go somewhere that he’d be guaranteed to get 450+ ABs. Not gonna get even 150 ABs in the Bronx.

  • http://www.mannfamilylaw.com/ houston tx family law attorney

    If you’re ready to divorce, you realize the risks involved. Don’t take a chance on losing everything you’ve worked so hard to attain. Let us to protect your best interests.