Open Thread: Where It All Started…


Sheesh, look how young and scrawny the captain was in that video. I guess that’s to be expected though, it is 20 years old after all. And how about that, he’s playing third base as well. That’ll serve him well when he moves off shortstop at some point in the future never. I also enjoyed this 12-year-old interview with Derek and Alex Rodriguez; it’s worth watching just to see Jeter’s old cell phone. I think you had to hand-crank that thing to power it up.

Anyway, here’s tonight’s open thread. The Nets are the only local team in action tonight, which is about as dull as it gets. You guys have done this before, so have at it.

Categories : Open Thread


    • ChrisR says:

      Lol random ignorant Yankee bashing gotta love it…

    • ROBTEN says:

      But you can’t unring the bell — as evidenced by the fact that the Redbirds just paid $17.5 million for two years to Jake Westbrook. That’s a pretty steep price for a fourth starter. But it’s the going rate these days for a decent pitcher with a pulse, no matter that he missed almost all of the 2008 and 2009 seasons because of major arm surgery.

      As if it’s the Yankees’ fault that other teams overpay for starters, when in reality it seems more like it is the other way around — if you give a Jake Westbrook $17.5 for two years, you just drive up the price of a Cliff Lee.

    • That article was 623 words long.

      623 words too long, pretty much.

    • bexarama says:

      By all accounts, when Rodriguez signed his deal in 2010 no other teams had even inquired about his services
      fact FAIL

      A month later, even after Boston turned up it’s nose
      grammar FAIL (emphasis mine)

      Meanwhile, the humbled third baseman should have been grateful to get $20 million a year for three to five seasons.
      You mean someone wanted to acquire as much money as possible? That’s crazy talk. What a jackass!!

      Even last year the Yankees were rumored to have been the monkey wrench in the Matt Holliday works.

      While they publicly said they weren’t interested in the slugging outfielder, reports after the fact indicated that New York offered a short term contract for $20 million to $25 million a year. The plan was to get Holliday for the short run and then let him become a free agent again this year when the talent pool was much more shallow than in 2009. Because of that move, the Cardinals had to guarantee Holliday seven years at $17 million to get a deal done.
      Wait, what???

      I only wish that the Cardinals had the cash to make a bid for Mariano Rivera. Sure, there’s little chance they could get him. but it would be nice to make New York pay through the nose for a 41-year-old pitcher.
      Paying $15+M a year for a reliever who pitches less than 80 innings a year isn’t already paying through the nose?

      • bexarama says:

        Also, obligatory BEST FANS IN THE WOOOOORRRLLLDDDD joke.

      • FIPster Doofus says:

        I have no idea what the hell he’s trying to say in the Holliday portion of the article. WTF?

        • bexarama says:

          That the Yankees had a secret deal with Holliday worth $25M or so, but just for 2010. Then let him be a FA this year… because the talent pool isn’t as good apparently???

          At least that’s how I interpreted it

          • ROBTEN says:

            I think it means that Holliday is secretly a double-agent for the Yankees who took one for the team by signing with the Cardinals for less than the Yankees were offering, but still above market value, so that in the future they would have to buy Pujols the moon — literally, the moon — in order to keep him, thereby ruining their franchise forever by having one very good and one great player play for their team at the same time for more than they would like to pay them, which is nothing.

        • radnom says:

          There was a rumor last offseason that the Yankees made a brief pass at Holliday asking if he wouldn’t mind a shorter term deal for a higher AAV.

          Make sense for the Yankees to check, its risky for Holliday but maybe he wanted to gamble.
          Did they actually check? Who knows.
          Just another random rumor.

          This rumor is without a doubt what he is referring to.

    • vin says:

      Ironic how they were Holliday’s only suitor, yet still gave him a monster contract.

  1. Teh Comp Pick says:

    Love the video of A-rod and Jeetz from ’98. Pike Place market in Seattle is an awesome place.

    • Eric Young says:

      This, too. And I’m still disappointed that Jeet – who I love and admire – didn’t have A-Rod’s back when the fans were booing him mercilessly. Had Jeet simply been a player, it would have been forgivable but, IMO, it was the low point of Jeet’s reign as Captain of the NYY.

      The video left me feeling kind of empty with the ol’ “what could have been.”

  2. I’m pretty sure Cliff Lee sarcastically antler’d Ian Kinsler today:

    Rangers second baseman Ian Kinsler said that Cliff Lee told him via text message that the Rangers were again at his Arkansas home.

    “Basically, I said, ‘What’s going on in Arkansas?’ He said, ‘the Rangers are down here again,’” Kinsler said on KESN-FM. “I was like, ‘Well, just sign whatever they give you.’ He said, ‘Let’s see what happens. We have to wait it out.’

    “I said, ‘Remember, I like being your teammate.’ And he said, ‘I do, too, but we have to wait it out.’ I said, ‘Just sign it.’ And then he sent me a picture of a deer.


    • Also, telling someone to “sign whatever they give you” has to be among the worst business advice I’ve ever heard.

      • YankeesJunkie says:

        Cliff Lee signs a 5 year league minimum deal for the Rangers!!!

      • Steve H says:

        I’m sure the players union is not thrilled.

      • vin says:

        That’s kind of a bush-league thing for Kinsler to announce on the radio. I understand he wants him to re-sign, but for Cliff to just “sign whatever they give you” would send the Players Association into a panic – and rightfully so. Kinsler needs to respect Lee’s decision and not make him out to be a bad guy if he takes the money.

        Perhaps Kinsler would’ve been happier playing under the Reserve Clause for his entire career.

        If I was Jon Daniels, I’d try to extend Kinsler this week – tell him to not worry about the terms of the contract, and just sign it.

        • If I was Jon Daniels, I’d try to extend Kinsler this week – tell him to not worry about the terms of the contract, and just sign it.

          “Don’t worry, Ian. Just sign whatever I hand you.”

    • YankeesJunkie says:


    • JGS says:

      I now love Cliff Lee.

      Get it done, Cash.

    • ROBTEN says:

      “We got the answers we wanted, and we reconfirmed our interest in bringing him back,” Ryan said after the Nov. 15 gathering. “We left feeling good about the meeting, and I do think Cliff is very interested in playing here again.”


      Ryan: We’d really like for you to pitch for us again.

      Lee: Ok. Pay me more than the Yankees.

      Ryan: Didn’t you enjoy playing in Texas.

      Lee: Yes. Pay me more than the Yankees.

      Ryan: We’re building for the future. Do you really want to play with a 40-year old short stop?

      Lee: Maybe. Can you pay me more than the Yankees?

      Ryan: We have great schools where your kids don’t have to learn none of that “history” that they’ll teach ‘em in New York.

      Lee: I get your point. Here’s a picture of a deer.

      Ryan: “We left feeling good about the meeting, and I do think Cliff is very interested in playing here again.”

      (End Scene.)

    • “I’m pretty sure the deer was dead. Antlers (Rangers) dead? Don’t read too much into it. He’s a hunter and was just showing off his trophy.” – comment from rangersblog


    • bexarama says:

      I sent this bitch a picture of my… deer?

  3. Steve H says:

    The funniest thing about the Jeter and A-Rod break up is that it was Jeter who was the little bitch about what A-Rod said, but that’s never how it was reported. Mr. Greatest Teammate ever.

    • Hughesus Christo says:

      To be fair, ARod’s Steve H-level people skills played a part as well.

    • And I’m still annoyed that he didn’t move off of SS. Kay always gets uppity about this, saying “Well, A-Rod volunteered!” Ridiculous. Jeter should’ve been the one to volunteer.

      • Hughesus Christo says:

        No. No he shouldn’t have.

        • If he was truly all about the team, yes, he should’ve. At the time, Rodriguez was the better shortstop.

          • JGS says:

            Eh, I don’t know if saying he should have volunteered to move is really fair.

            I think the Yankees should have been more forceful about it. “Hey Derek, you’re awesome. We love you. Move to third.”

            • Steve H says:

              I think it’s a combo of both. The Yankees should have made it happen because it would have helped the team. Since Jeter is the ultimate team player, he should have volunteered since it would have helped the team.

              • JGS says:

                Jeter as the ZOMG ULTIMATE TEAM PLAYER is more a media construction than anything else, and to the extent that this conflicts with that (false) narrative, sure it’s true.

                That said, I don’t think his lack of volunteering to move means he was a bad team player (nor do I think Jeter in general is a bad team player, he just isn’t the super ultimate can do no wrong selfless gritty gamer he’s made out to be. No one is.)–I don’t think it’s something that could reasonably be expected of any superstar player.

          • Hughesus Christo says:

            ARod’s Steve H-level people skills come into play here as well. They might as well have handed the keys to every player’s homes if they had done that.

            On your first day at prison, you either kick someone’s ass or become someone’s bitch. Works both ways.

      • bexarama says:

        I think he should’ve volunteered but I also think turning Derek into ~TEH BAD GUY!!!!~ over this is similarly ridiculous.

        • Total bad guy. No debate. We must polarize.

        • mbonzo says:

          I agree. If I am known as one of the best shortstops, which he was in 2004 (UZR was really only introduced in 2003), and had my main competition coming in, I’d stand my ground too. If this happened to me in an office setting I’d the same and try my hardest to be the best.

          • bexarama says:

            We don’t even know if Derek was told by the Yankees to move and refused, or if they just never asked and he never volunteered. Heck, maybe he volunteered and the Yankees told him not to move (yeah, right, but I dunno why people are so eager to be completely cynical about Derek and not even consider a situation like this.).

          • Corporate Scum (Formerly Joe West's Music Career) says:

            So much this. If this happened to me in the office, I would actively work to get them transferred elsewhere.

            /I’m not nice in the office’d

        • Kit says:

          This, though I don’t think he should have volunteered simply because he had a rank to pull there. He called dibs first (/not serious).

      • Ed says:

        Honestly, I think it was the right move. A-Rod was the better SS at the time, but A-Rod’s been getting bulkier over the years. I think if he stayed at short, he would’ve only lasted a few more years there. I’m guessing around ’06-’07 he would’ve declined enough to be worse than Jeter.

        Throw in the things you couldn’t have predicted at the time, like A-Rod’s hip injury and Jeter’s defense improving, and I think that things really worked out for the better. I really think the last few years would’ve been awkward had they went with A-Rod at short.

    • Esteban says:

      I mean considering that they were supposedly best friends previously, I can see why Jeter would get pissed at Arod saying

      Jeter’s been blessed with great talent around him,”He’s never had to lead. He can just go and play and have fun. And he hits second–that’s totally different than third and fourth in a lineup. You go into New York, you wanna stop Bernie and O’Neill. You never say, Don’t let Derek beat you. He’s never your concern.”

      • Steve H says:

        But it’s true, and it’s also similar to the way they were talking in the video.

        • bexarama says:

          It is true but, c’mon, you don’t say it about your friends in the media. Jeter probably held a grudge for too long or whatever, but like I said, true or not you don’t say that about your friends.

          • Esteban says:

            I agree, and despite myself, I have to agree that A-rod doesn’t seem to have the best interpersonal skills, or to put it more plainly, is kind of a dick.

            • bexarama says:

              Note: Complete psychoanalysis. Feel free to ignore.

              A-Rod obviously has ungodly talent, and he was considered special all the way back in high school. He was the first overall pick and he’s had unbelievable success at the major league level. It’s not really so much that he’s a dick that he doesn’t have great interpersonal skills because he never really had to work on them. His awkwardness never ceases to amuse me, though.

              Just IMO. And again, complete psychoanalysis (which I normally can’t stand) of a person I do not know in any way.

      • Steve H says:

        And I can see him getting a little upset, but not to the point of holding a grudge and dissolving a friendship.

        • Hughesus Christo says:

          Didn’t ARod dissolve his marriage to put his penis inside of Madonna a few times? Where does that rank?

          • Steve H says:

            Hmmm, don’t quite see any correlation.

            • Hughesus Christo says:

              I don’t quite see any correlation between being insulted by ARod’s remarks and being the devil incarnate, but you went there.

              ARod was/is a dick. He made a dick comment in the media, and I’m sure he had been a dick before then. Who in their right minds would laugh that off?

              • Steve H says:

                I’m sorry A-Rod was a dick to you.

              • JobaWockeeZ says:

                *insert Saint Jeter comment here*

              • Here’s the bottom line:

                They’re both egocentric dickheads. We love them, because they’re our egocentric dickheads, but nobody is going to win the “Who’s the better teammate, ARod or Derek?” argument, because they’re both utterly equal egotistic dickheads who want to win and want to be part of a great team but also want to be the perceived as the best and want to manufacture their legacies and their public personas very thoroughly.

                They’re both dickheads.

                • Hughesus Christo says:

                  Except ARod is clearly worse. Don’t Jon Stewart this situation, TSJC.

                  • ARod is only clearly worse because ARod has fewer journalists on his side to portray the story in a favorable light for him.

                    They’re both dicks of equal dickishness. Stop drinking the Saint Jeter koolaid and admit that he’s just as thin-skinned and just as self-obsessed as any other elite athlete.

                    • Hughesus Christo says:

                      Your Glenn Beck-style false equivalency will not advance this discussion or this nation. We are no longer able to fall back on weak-willed centrism. These times call for dynamic leadership–and era marked by our unity and not our differences.

                      Turn to Jesus.

                    • mike c says:

                      hmm there must not be a lot of online references for jeter bashing?
                      oh wait now i get it— he’s such a dick, he purposely erases examples of his dickishness off of the internet, to dick over people who want to talk about what a dick he is online. what a dick move. you & steve h were right all along

                  • mike c says:

                    quick somebody quote 6/150!!!
                    that’s how they would do it on fox news, right?

                • mike c says:

                  a-rod: used steroids, opted-out of his contract during the WS, kissed a mirror for some silly pictures, commission centaur portraits, etc.

                  jeter: rumors of asking for more money than he’s worth this offseason?

                  i love a-rod, but he’s a dick. what has jeter done that comes close to a-rod’s shenanigans?

                  • JobaWockeeZ says:

                    Let’s stop pretending you know them personally.

                    • mike c says:

                      let’s stop pretending you’re not just hating on jeter (without any real reason besides some childish notion that ‘he’s a dick’)

                  • Eric Young says:

                    Been a fallible captain and hought he is worth $23M for 4 years at the age of 36. But those are his only only transgression.

                  • JohnnyC says:

                    Well, he…acted like a little bitch and didn’t move to 3rd to accomodate Alex. Much much worse than anything Alex has ever done in his entire life. Ever.

        • mike c says:

          what friendship? you don’t make friends by showing up in a new place and running your mouth

  4. Steve H says:

    For his birthday I send him “a nice computer phone.” That would actually make more sense in 2010 than it did in 1998.

  5. Slappy White says:

    How cool is it for that kid to say he played short and made Jeter move to third ?

    • Esteban says:

      Almost on that level, my cousin played at Columbus HS in Miami and was the reigning varsity player when Mike Lowell arrived. Mike Lowell didn’t win the the starting job over my cousin and transferred to Coral Gables High.

  6. vin says:

    Does anyone else wish Fangraphs and B-R can just get together and consoldiate their player pages? B-R is the gold-standard as far as layout and general usefulness goes. But Fangraphs has things that B-R doesn’t (wOBA, pitchFX, etc.). Not to mention the whole WAR thing. Also, B-R has the play index, which is among the greatest things ever invented.

    I hate that I can’t find wOBA on B-R. And I also hate how a player’s age isn’t listed next to each season on FG.

    Can’t we all just get along?!

      • mbonzo says:

        Fan Graphs really messed up on their default dashboard I think. Theres a lot of stats I and most people don’t care about. I know they’re probably trying to push WAR, but if I want to see that I’ll check out their advanced stats. Meanwhile, OPS seems like a no-brainer, but thats in advanced batting.

        Fan Graphs has so much potential to be the go-to for baseball stats, but they push a lot of advanced stats that the normal reader doesn’t care about. If it presented itself like baseball reference and still had the advanced stats away from the default dashboard, I would definitely go to Fan Graphs for all my numbers. Fix it Joe!

        • vin says:

          I’d rather see B-R take the leap into more advanced stats. Mostly because I’d love to be able to incorporate those into the Play Index.

          • mbonzo says:

            BRef is a lot closer to the optimal design for stats since its so simple to use and doesn’t have a million different sections to sort through.

    • Hughesus Christo says:

      Socialist! The Invisible Hand has decided that you will be unhappy with all available options. Quiet before the hand gets angry and takes your health insurance.

    • The only thing Fangraphs needs that BRef has is page sponsors. That would take Frangraphs over the top.

      • vin says:

        I definitely wouldn’t say that.

        I should start a list of things I don’t like about FG… since I think they’re further away from being ideal than B-R.

        For starters, I don’t like that F-G has the Bill James prediction below the most recent season. Seems odd to put a prediction right below what should be the most relevant data (the past/current season).

      • mbonzo says:

        Hahaha. Looking at the area where those sponsors would be on fangraphs they advertise their related blog posts. I wish that was somewhere else and the stats were eye level when the page loaded.

  7. This fucking assignment sucks. Fuck you, professor. Fuck you in your condescending ear, you bitch.


  8. Sheepmeister says:

    Rockies close to signing berkman!/TroyRenck

  9. Bryan L says:

    I don’t know about you guys, but shit like this really annoys me.

    • mbonzo says:

      I remember a month ago someone argued that ESPN is a dignified media outlet. They said they had no reason to run outlandish stories because it would ruin their credibility. That person might have been the last person to think ESPN had any such credibility.

    • Steve H says:

      Yankees=Page views, regardless of how much BS it is.

  10. Puma is close to signing with the Rockies.

    Good luck, Berk. Your playoff performance was great, hope to see the Yanks and Rockies go at it in the 2011 World Series.

  11. Brooklyn Ed says:

    Matt Diaz for bench?

  12. Squishy Jello Person says:

    I had to take my 2009 World Champions flag down today as part of the packing process. Not entirely uncoincidentally, I haven’t packed anything since. Bah. packing is hard.

    And physically painful, too. My shoulder is dead.

  13. My brother is a Red Sox fan, and has these awesome Red Sox slippers with with the B on each, as sinful as it is, I wear them all the time, because they are the most comfortable things in the house. I consider the ‘B-B’ on each slipper to stand for ‘Big Bro’ so it’s all good.

  14. James says:

    This is the greatest open thread ever.

  15. Reason #1 that the University of Miami shouldn’t consider hiring Mike Leach:

  16. bexarama says:

    what with all the A-Rod talk I felt like I should share this.


    If you’re the Red Sox GM (and therefore brilliant and infallible) who would you rather have, Werth or Crawford?

    I think Werth by a country mile, and the Crawford stuff is just for leverage with Werth.

  18. T-Dubs says:

    I’m watching old Simpsons youtube clips. This is a quasi-pertinent one:

  19. mike c says:

    seriously though, what has jeter done that is making fans trash him so much here? i keep hearing ‘he’s a dick’ but come on, you guys can do a little better than that

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Again let’s stop pretending we know him personally. His unabashed love gets old very damn quickly.

    • bexarama says:

      Dared to have a subpar year in which he was still a fairly useful player, then tried to make more money in a deal. At least as far as I can tell. Also, he claps when he rounds first base!!!

      I don’t think Derek Jeter is some paragon of virtue, but the sniping at him has been really ridiculous all year. Like someone said a few days ago, at this point Jesus Montero is more popular among Yankee fans, basically.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        Sniping? Really? Is calling him old a shot at Jeter? Or declining a shot?

        • bexarama says:

          There’s a lot of “he’s just a slap hitter who GIDPs a lot” (when referring to his entire career, not just 2010). People complain about things he’s done his whole damn career, like the clapping when he rounds 1B. It’s stupid. Again – I don’t think Jeter is some paragon of virtue, and I very much agree with what tsjc said about him being kinda Mean Girls-y in the past.

          But – sorry, Steve H., I see a lot of “he’s being a little bitch”-type comments to go along with the “he was never that good!” criticism. I’m sure Steve H. didn’t mean that in an offensive way but meh, that word choice bothers me.

    • From all the (limited) information we have access to, it seems as though Jeter basically froze out ARod from the clubhouse inner sanctum. He was the captain and essentially pulled a “Mean Girls” on ARod, not letting him in the cool kids crowd, either because he held a grudge against him for his prior comments (or out of sheer jealousy because ARod was his main challenger for the “Best SS in the game” title.

      For a leader, Derek isn’t really very leaderlike.

      I personally don’t really think either of them have ever done anything that would make them “a dick”, but if you’re going to call ARod a dick for what he’s done, Derek’s probably a dick as well for what he’s done.

    • Dirty Pena says:

      Who’s trashing him? He’s a declining, aging player making ridiculous contract demands. Has anyone said anything other than that? That’s not even trashing him, it’s just the facts. The “he’s a dick” part was only brought up because you brought it up about A-Rod, and the people saying that are only saying it to express the point that they don’t give a shit if either guy is a “dick.”

    • Steve H says:

      He gave Jessica Alba herpes.

    • JerseyDutch says:

      He asked for money. Lots of it. And he got old. And he kicked my dog. OK, I made the last part up.

    • bonestock94 says:

      Most jocks are dicks, they’re all probly dicks.

    • Kit says:

      I don’t get the arguments because there’s no actual evidence to back up either A-Rod or Derek being dicks. We don’t know them personally, and what is said in the media plays a major role in determining who is a “dick” and who isn’t, and a lot of that is either taken out of context or said by someone whose social skills are questionable (looking at you, Alex), so should be taken with a grain of salt. There’s a possibility that Derek is a huge dick, but he knows how to keep his mouth shut when it counts, whereas Alex just recently acquired that skill. No one knows for sure. I just don’t get where this Derek vs. Alex who’s the greater villain campaign started (my words, not anyone else’s). They’re both extremely important parts of our team.

      • JGS says:

        Totally agree, but I’d add a qualifier:

        We don’t know them personally, and what is said in the media plays a major role in determining who is a “dick” and who isn’t, and a lot of that is either taken out of context or said by someone whose social skills are questionable (looking at you, Alex), or is written by someone with an agenda, so should be taken with a grain of salt

        • Kit says:

          That too.

          Just to add another thing here, Alex has been made the villain for various things that are really not that big of a deal but are obviously pointed out to ignite fury. I know he’s lost many a fan because he once declined to play for the Dominican Republic in the World baseball classic by “suggesting” that he “wasn’t a Dominican.” I have no recollection of this ever happening because to my knowledge, he played for the Dominican Republic at least once and as a Dominican American, I completely understand why he would choose to play for the US at least once, but the flurry of people who have come up to me with that as an excuse to hate him is astounding.

        • Eric Young says:

          Actually, this line was pretty compelling to me: If you know you’re going to be out of work at 40, wouldn’t you be fighting for every dollar you could get?

          I could modify it to read “If you’re Casey Close and know your client is going to be out of work at 40, wouldn’t you be fighting for every dollar you could get?

          If NYY and DJ work things out at a reasonable price, I think all should, and will, be forgiven and forgotten.

      • Hughesus Christo says:

        There is no evidence of ARod being a dick? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

        ARod didn’t cheat on his wife months after the birth of his daughter with MADONNA in the most public way possible?

        ARod hadn’t already been caught banging strippers on camera before Madonna showed up?

        ARod wasn’t a slum lord?

        ARod didn’t get caught doing steroids (and strongly implicated once more)?

        ARod didn’t get caught up in Eliot Spitzer’s hooker controversy?

        ARod didn’t get called out for being a dick to clubhouse employees in Torre’s book?

        ARod didn’t make those comments about his “friend” in Esquire?

        This is a small sampling of ARod being a dick. But that’s all equal to Jeter asking not to have his pay cut and not begging ARod to lord over the entire franchise from the second he stepped foot at their spring training complex.

        Give me a break.

        • Kit says:

          You’re seriously offended by this like it’s a life and death situation for you. It’s not. I’m sure if you write him a letter letting him know that he ran over your dog and killed him, he’d apologize.

          Also, I didn’t read all of that because what is “evidence” can also be “you don’t know the whole story so see your way out of it”.

          • Steve H says:

            Also, I didn’t read all of that because what is “evidence” can also be “you don’t know the whole story so see your way out of it”.

            Exactly, which brings us back to the media’s place in this discussion. We don’t know either of them, we only know how the media portrays them. I’m sure Jeter has done plenty of dickish things that we never heard about, and I’m sure, as you said, that we don’t have the whole story on any of the A-Rod is a dick list from above.

            • bexarama says:

              Yeah. The “slum lord” thing, for one, is from… Selena Roberts. And the first sentence regarding it is “A-Rod is not exactly a slum lord.”

              Also honestly what does it matter if he cheated with Madonna? It’s totally sleazy but HC keeps emphasizing the whole Madonna thing. Is it any less sleazy if he cheated with someone else?

        • A.) What ARod does with his wife, or with strippers or prostitutes, for that matter, isn’t really our business. Nor is it at all unusual for professional athletes. Jeter may not have a wife to cheat on, but if you don’t think Jeter’s ever banged the occasional skank, you’re deluding yourself.

          B.) Torre’s book is the classic “unreliable narrator”. He dropped dimes on ARod being a dick in the clubhouse because it served his scapegoating narrative quite conveniently. To paraphrase Joe Pawlikowski discussing Jeff Passan, “Nobody rooted for the Empire because that’s how the movie was written”. Jeter was Torre’s homeboy, so naturally he came off in that book utterly scott-free.

          C.) Doing steroids doesn’t even make him a dick. Damn near everybody was juicing, because an unenforced rule isn’t a real rule. Color me disinterested.

          (I assume you also think Andy Pettitte is a huge dick for taking HGH, btw.)

          D.) And no, ARod wasn’t a “slum lord”. ARod owned a few properties that he didn’t directly oversee; bad things happened while he didn’t know about it; when he found out, he rectified it. Nothing about that story makes him a “slum lord”, and the fact that you would even accuse him of such a thing is pretty indicative that you’ve bought the bullshit media demonization of him whole-cloth, which is ridiculous.

          • Hughesus Christo says:

            A) It’s not “our business” but it is INARGUABLY an asshole move to cheat on your pregnant wife with hookers 24/7. Are you serious?

            B) Torre is an unreliable narrator, sure. What about all the people being credited with the stories about ARod in Selena Roberts’ book? Did Tom Hicks deny saying ARod is a dick? Apparently anyone saying anything negative about ARod is a professional liar and ARod is just living, ya’ll.

            C) Illegally importing steroids to the United States, lying about it in a variety of ways, repeatedly to the public, lying about it in a new variety of ways after you get caught, then holding a hilarious press conference where you essentially blame your cousin for it: dick

            D) Literally any person in the world, other than ARod, is held responsible for the oversight of a property he or she owns. That’s a joke from you.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          Who cares if he’s a dick anyway? What does it matter? It’s completely irrelevant to my life and yours, just like yours and mine are to him.

          • Esteban says:

            Exactly this. I think ARod’s a dick, but he’s one of my favorite players anyway.

          • Hughesus Christo says:

            I’m responding to a discussion about Jeter/ARod being dicks. Thus, a post about their dickishness relative to one another. You can’t excuse ARod for being a horrible human being because his WAR was over a certain number last year, and then call Jeter a dick because he doesn’t want to have his pay cut. And then it goes a step beyond by equating the legitimately dickish things we all know ARod to have done (whether we “care” or not) to Jeter wanting a certain amount of money from his employer. The Yankees don’t owe Jeter anything, but Jeter apparently owes us, correct?

            The dicks are in or the dicks are out, but the dick will be exchanged fairly.

        • Dick says:

          HC, Mickey Mantle was also known to be a dick. What’s your pont?

      • bexarama says:

        As usual, you said pretty much what I would like to say in some sort of ideal world. Thanks.

        (I also don’t know why Yankees fans would be so quick to label either of them dicks.)

      • Esteban says:

        Oh A-Rod is a dick. My cousins are from Miami and are similar ages and one went to HS with him for at least a little while, and definitely knows him. As I said above, he’s a dick and a womanizer (according to them).

        • Kit says:

          Right. “According to them” is the important phrase there. It is entirely possible that they never spoke a word to each other. Not to call anyone a liar (there’s no attempt to insult anyone here, I’m just saying this generally), but I’d rather form my own opinion of someone than take that of someone else’s. I don’t know him personally, I’m not defending anyone, I just never liked the idea of using someone else’s experiences/words to formulate an opinion on someone I’ve never met. Some people are put off by something that might not bother me at all. No two people are alike and personalities don’t always mesh.

          • Esteban says:

            No, they’ve spoken for sure. You could be right about them not just getting along, but they have nothing but nice things to say about Mike Lowell, whom they also know.

            • Kit says:

              And I’m sure Mike Lowell is a lovely person but he doesn’t really factor into this at all. Like I said it is entirely possible that they’ve just never seen eye to eye or found common ground with Alex. He’s not exactly known for having a brilliant personality. He’s blatantly awkward and seems to have a difficult time getting his words/ideas across in an appropriate way, so it may have just been a statement or a word or an action that put them off. None of that screams “complete dickwad” though.

              • Esteban says:

                That’s certainly true, but everything I’ve heard about A-Rod points to him being a dick. I don’t care, and in fact, I think I might root harder for A-Rod than almost anybody else because of the constant criticism he gets.

                • Kit says:

                  I’ll be honest and say that I’m not the biggest A-Rod fan. Doesn’t mean I’m not a fan, but I’ve had my gripes about him, I’ve held massive grudges over things that I should have let go of years ago, but when he’s on that field, he’s playing for the Yankees, and I will forgive him for everything because he’s a member of my team and as long as he’s good and productive and contributing, he’s important to me.

                  • JGS says:

                    when he’s on that field, he’s playing for the Yankees, and I will forgive him for everything because he’s a member of my team and as long as he’s good and productive and contributing, he’s important to me.

                    This. Ty Cobb stabbed a guy /obligatory

            • Esteban says:

              So it’s not just ‘all baseball players are dicks’ thing. And I guess them praising Mike Lowell means nothing about their relationship with A-Rod. Haha, you certainly don’t have to, but I trust my cousins.

              • Kit says:

                No, I understand what you’re saying, but two players out of thousands on top of thousands of baseball players aren’t exactly great examples. I’m not saying your cousins are lying or insinuating that they’re just sensitive or whatever, I’m just saying that it’s entirely possible that comparing Lowell’s personality (who probably had only a fraction of Alex’s acclaim or success during HS or college or whenever) to Alex’s is somewhat pointless. Maybe he had bad days, maybe he was stressed, maybe he had a lot of pressure on his shoulders or was constantly guarded, maybe his home life wasn’t as pleasant as Lowell’s. My point is, in all of this, we don’t ever have the whole story.

        • Dick says:

          I want my name back.

    • bonestock94 says:

      Also, while we’re talking about Jeter’s demands, I thought this was a cool article from a player’s perspective.

      Still think the early demands were a absurd but whatever.

  20. mbonzo says:

    I know my trade proposal sucks and it wouldn’t happen but would you do it?

    Yankees get:
    Johan Santana
    Carlos Beltran
    Wilmer Flores

    Mets get:
    Brett Gardner
    Austin Romine
    Ivan Nova

  21. GG2010 says:

    Did Mr Moss get banned?

  22. mbonzo says:

    Cliff Lee won’t sign soon apparently.

  23. Jose the Satirist says:

    Brian Shouse announced his retirement. He first played in the minor leagues in 1990, and didn’t throw more than 15 innings in a major league season until 2003. That is dedication.

  24. Teh Comp Pick says:

    Listening to the podcast right now, love the delcarmen closer for NL teams line by Joe


  25. Slappy White says:

    This Kyrie Irving kid is really good

  26. Jerome S says:

    If you were one of the most elite people ever to grace your profession
    (coughA-RODcoughLEBRON), would you not be cocky at times? Would you not feel it appropriate to, at some points say, “f*ck off, I’ve got three times as many Home Runs as you”? Or “Does it even matter? Just let me play the game already.”

    The fact is, these men are paid to play a game, and some do it extremely well. There is no “media love” bonus, nor is there an incentive to not switch to a winning team or cheat on your wife, etc. On that note, they spend their lives playing a game, something most people stop doing regularly by the eighth grade. There are no desks, cubicles, dress codes, employee behavior rules, or anything that us mundane bureaucrats are familiar with. There is simply avg, obp, HR, SB.
    Ty Cobb was notoriously unpopular with the media, the A-Rod of the time. This stemmed from a deeper psychological issue, that Cobb simply felt inadequate at life. But when he got on a diamond he knew he was doing something well, and he showed it. Isn’t that all that we want?

    It is true that we do get Ruth’s, Gehrig’s, Dimaggio’s, Griffey’s and Jeter’s. They try to at least project the image of the kind, sociable, well-rounded sportsman. But for every Ruth there is a Cobb, for every Dimaggio a Ted Williams, for every Griffey a Barry Bonds, and for Jeter, their is A-Rod. Such dichotomy has existed since the beginning of baseball itself. And that’s the proof, isn’t it? That shows that since the beginning, all we’ve wanted is great players, not great people. That part’s usually a bonus.

    Is A-Rod a dick? I’m damn sure he is. Bonds was an arrogant sonofabitch, Ted Williams was just mean, and Cobb was an insecure bully. But I really, really don’t care. Because when you look at these mens stats, sometimes you find that Williams was better than Dimaggio, and that Bonds was better than Griffey (most likely), and that A-Rod is a way better baseball player than Jeter.

    And yet some people still care. Well I don’t; neither should you. I suggest you pick up a bat and dig in, otherwise, neither I nor the players give a damn what you think of character.

  27. Tarheel Yankee says:

    I know this is a Yankees site (bleed pinstripes). I have a question, if there is any true Jets fans here (most yankee fans I know are Giant fans). Looking back, now, and forward would we (Jet fans) be better off w/ Josh Freeman rather then Markie Franchize?

    • Guest says:

      Giants fan, but Ive watched my share of Jets games. The Sanchize looks like he has a pretty good shot at being great and a great shot at being at least pretty good. Looks like you guys hit with that pick.

      That said, Freeman looks like he is no joke. That’s a big boy with a strong arm that’s winning games with a very young team. A very young team not nearly as talented as the Jets. (By the way, as an aside, I can’t remember the last time I saw a team take so many risks on talented players with question marks and have it all work out. Tomlinson, Cromartie, Taylor, Edwards, Holmes–it’s all worked).

      In the end, I think the Freeman/Sanchez thing might work out live Rivers, Roethlisberger, Eli. You can make your arguments for whose better than whom (Im a huge Eli fan but would rank them Rivers, Big Ben, then Eli). But it doesn’t really matter whose better than whom because all three of them are elite QBs that you can win Superbowls with.

      Long winded way of saying too soon to tell on Freeman v. Sanchez; but both are pretty dang good so no real need to wonder who you’d be better off with. Both look like out of the park draft picks.

      • A.D. says:

        You can make your arguments for whose better than whom

        Pretty sure the vast majority of people would trade Eli for Rivers straight up right now

        • Guest says:

          Yeah, true. I and most think that Rivers is better than Eli. So I guess I was wrong to say that there is a true meaningful debate about how the pecking order should go amonst the three Class of ’04 QBs.

          But I think that my main point still stands: they are all pretty awesome so no team need pine for the other teams QB.

          If you have a delicious steak, there’s no reason to covet another man’s lobster. Bite the sh*t out of your steak and enjoy it.

  28. Slappy White says:

    Anybody else watching Duke-MSU ?

  29. nsalem says:

    It really bothers me to see the way Arod is portrayed as a human being and being put in the same class as people like Ty Cobb. He doesn’t have the social skills of a Jeter or Griffey. He also wasn’t blessed with the guidance that his other two contemporaries had in preparing for their superstar roles growing up. Even watching him in his time with the Yankees he has seem to grown up as a person and in his ability to deal with the press. Yes he is awkward with the press and somoe
    interpret this as him being a phony. Why can’t it simply that like many people he is not comfortable in front of a microphone. I always thought Matsui was incredible with the press and he wasn’t even speaking english. It’s a skill some have and others don’t It’s unfair to judge someone’s life when we really have a limited view of the individual.

  30. Avi says:

    Yanks resigned Mitre for $900k.

    • Guest says:

      Eh, why not? 900K is pretty reasonable for a serviceable slightly above replacement level back of the bullpen reliever/break in case of emergency starter.

      If the Yanks don’t accomplish their goals next year, it won’t be because something went wrong with Sergio Mitre.

    • MikeD says:

      For the same reason they had him last year and the year prior. He’s a MLB arm. During the course of the season, even under the best of circumstances, there’s always a need for Mitre-like player.

  31. nsalem says:

    George Weiss not Branch Rickey was the first GM of the Mets. Rickey retired in 1955. While Rickey was never able to defeat the Yankees in a World Series as a GM, he was able to take a good deal of credit for building the 1960 Pirates who defeated the Yankees in the 1960 World Series. The Yankees by the way outscored the Pirates in that World Series by something close to a 55-27 margin.

  32. Mike HC says:

    One more vote for the A-Rod is 100% a dick, and Jeter is not, side.

    • Kit says:

      Still don’t know why you care so much.

      • Mike HC says:

        Didn’t realize you were wondering that for so long. And I don’t care other than my curiosity for athletes I have been following since my childhood, or other people that interest me.

        • Kit says:

          I wasn’t, I just happened to refresh the page. I honestly don’t care if people think Alex or Derek are dicks. That’s their opinion not mine, more power to you, but one more person isn’t the whole world, so it matters very little.

          • Mike HC says:

            The whole world basically already acknowledges that ARod is a dick. Even he has seemed to embrace it, which oddly makes him a bit more likeable, ha. The people defending him here are even defending him by saying, “but everyone in ARod’s situation would be a dick.”

    • Dick says:

      I have to say. This thread clearly has been the most dick-ish I’ve read on RAB. I want royalties!

    • bexarama says:

      Yeah, see, I don’t get the whole “A-Rod is 10000000% a dick and Jeter is 100000000% not!” (or vice-versa) argument. It’s too black-and-white and media-narrative-driven.

      • Mike HC says:

        The media is not exactly a bastion of truth, but sometimes the evidence is so overwhelming from such a variety of sources that it is just undeniable. And you did hear the whole, “loosey goosey, I was lying to myself” interview right. Blame the media for that one too?

        • bexarama says:

          I do think A-Rod’s done dickish things, a lot of them. I don’t agree that he is 100% a dick and Jeter is 100% not.

          • Mike HC says:

            I get the feeling that if you knew someone like ARod in real life, you would be absolutely disgusted by his personality from knowing the very little I do about you from the RAB comments. Just my opinion though.

      • Mike HC says:

        That is basically a cop out too. Murderers are not 100% dicks and Ghandi himself probably had his dickish moments. ARod is more of a dick than not and Jeter is less of a dick than not, if that makes you feel better.

        • bexarama says:


          One more vote for the A-Rod is 100% a dick, and Jeter is not, side.

          That’s what you said though.

          • Mike HC says:

            I meant I’m 100% sure that ARod is a dick (and/or a douchebag … basically that entire Kanye West song, “Runaway”) and Jeter is not.

            • bexarama says:

              Speaking of “Runaway” I feel the need to self-promote.



              • AJ says:

                I’ll never fully understand the A-Rod hatred. It has nothing to do with the steroids admission because the hatred was there much before. The guy works hard, plays hard, won two MVPs with the Yanks, is supposedly Cano’s “mentor”, is a huge part of why we won in 2009. None of us know A-Rod or Jeter personally and it’s a ridiculous thing to say that you are sure that either is a dick or not. Both love the game and have contributed to MLB and to the Yankees. Monstrosity of a contract aside, I’m glad A-Rod is a Yankee.

                • AJ says:

                  And if anyone’s a dick in the Joe Torre book its Torre for breaking the Yankee rule of not discussing what goes on in the clubhouse, embarrassing Yankee players, throwing Cashman under the bus for not defending him(even though Joe did nothing to stop the Yankee brass from firing Mel Stottlemyre), and shortening his legacy to make a few million.

  33. Yo Quiero Montero (formerly LarryF) says:

    Just read through the open thread that I missed last night.

    I am ready to take the exam to become a board certified dickologist.

    Thanks for the prep course.

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