Dec
06

Open Thread: Winter Meetings Day One

By

(Photo Credit: me, yo)

That’s the setup in the media room at the The Dolphin in Disney’s Complez in Orlando, where this year’s winter meetings are being held. Earlier today Padres GM Jed Hoyer sat up there and explained his reasoning behind the Adrian Gonzalez trade, and before that Pat Gillick thanked a laundry list of people after being announced as the newest Hall of Famer. Unfortunately Derek Jeter‘s press conference will not be held there tomorrow, the captain wanted to do it Tampa. All of the beat writers are driving out there in the morning, but us lowly bloggers are staying in Orlando. One of our perks, I guess.

Anyway, here’s your open thread for the night. The Jets are at the Patriots tonight in a game with some serious AFC East ramifications. If that doesn’t do it for ya, the Devils and Knicks are in action as well. You guys know the drill, so have at it.

Categories : Open Thread

273 Comments»

  1. Bryan L says:

    I really wish Cash would just make an offer to Lee already.

    Yeah, yeah I know, Patience is a virture…

  2. YankeesJunkie says:

    I was looking forward to the podcast today to help me get through my homework easier. Now I have not even started, well who needs to pass anyway.

    • I Voted for Kodos says:

      Yeah, passing is for suckers.

      I should be working on what is basically my thesis right now. Instead, I’m browsing a Yankees site that I’ve already checked about 15 times today for updates.

      Procrastination is awesome.

  3. I hope something big happens in re: the Yankees in Orlando and you guys (or other bloggers) get to break it first.

  4. bexarama says:

    Andy officially retiring is totally gonna break tomorrow and then it’ll be the Worst Birthday Ever. fml.

    #optimism

  5. FIPster Doofus says:

    I hope the Yankees go hard after Greinke if Pettitte retires. That probably puts me in the minority, though…

  6. ultimate913 says:

    I’ve been coming home, expecting something new about Lee for about a week now. I’ve been getting nothing. Hurry up, people. Sheeesh.

  7. Avi says:

    Quote of the day( by John Boggs, Adrian Gonzalez’s agent): “We’re not working in a spirit to get [the Red Sox] by the jugular or squeeze every nickel, or set a precedent-setting deal,”
    Hey John: We all knew you’re a sucky agent. But to come out and actually say it yourself??

    • A.D. says:

      Poor, figure such an easy line too: “Adrian has been looking forward to testing the open market, and a trade to the Red Sox hasn’t changed that”

    • ZZ says:

      Incredible.

      A player with literally no ties to the Red Sox organization under the spell that he should sign at a discounted rate. You are not dealing with the Padres anymore. The Red Sox can get squeezed dry on this deal and have no issue competing because of their revenue stream.

      Given Teixiera’s deal and the contract Werth just signed any discussion with Gonzalez should be focused around 8/200. And that is not at all an unreasonable or unfair proposition given his talent and his market value.

      • bexarama says:

        A player with literally no ties to the Red Sox organization

        Hey ZZ, he said it was his second dream to play for the Sox!!!

        I really don’t think the Sox got off too easy on this one. Padres got screwed, and if they really got offered Beckham++ from the White Sox and didn’t take that that is very sketchy, but the Sox had to pay double, effectively, for a player they would’ve signed out of FA anyway. They didn’t get some ridiculous like, 4/$60 discount.

        • ZZ says:

          I think people are overestimating the certainty that the Red Sox were just going to sign him anyway next season.

          On the open market Gonzalez could line himself up for a huge contract. He is the type of player where he really could break $200 if he has another great season.

          The Red Sox don’t have a great history of dealing with contracts that large or handling negotiations of that magnitude well.

      • Avi says:

        Absolutely 8/200M.
        How bad is Boggs gonna look when Crawford signs a bigger deal than what he just got for Gonzalez?

      • “Given Teixiera’s deal and the contract Werth just signed any discussion with Gonzalez should be focused around 8/200.”

        But the Sox aren’t bidding against anybody right now, Gonzalez is not on the open market. They probably will, and I think they should, get a bit of a discount if they sign him a year before he hits free agency. If Gonzalez wants to wait until he’s a free agent, he can go out and get teams to bid against each other and get a bigger contract, if he so pleases. But if he wants to sign a new contract now, he’d likely have to lower his financial goals just a bit, since the Sox would be giving him the big payday and financial security of a big money, long-term deal a year before he hits free agency and before they have to compete with anyone for his services.

        We all want the Sox to have to pay a premium, top of the market price for Gonzalez, but if they sign him during this offseason, they probably won’t have to. They’ll have to pay him well, but I don’t think you’re looking at anything above a Teixeira contract, and I think a fair deal will be something less than Teixeira received.

        • ZZ says:

          Gonzalez is in a very interesting situation though. On the one hand you could say that he is a year away from free agency so he has the Red Sox have leverage to push for a discount. On the other hand, Gonzalez can use the fear of him heading to the open market to leverage more money out of the Sox.

          If Gonzalez plays this right, Boggs should really be running the show in these negotiations. He has gone this far with basically no expectation he was going to get extended and now just a year away he was traded to a team where the ballpark fits him perfectly. The potential numbers he could put up in that ballpark and then taking those out on the open market should scare the Sox.

          Additionally, the Red Sox TV ratings were down some absurd percentage last season. I believe the number was 40%. The Red Sox are in a very precarious situation right now with their fan base. If they do not secure Gonzalez long term it is going to get very messy up in Boston. If they play hardball with him or do their typical line in the sand stuff Gonzalez does not have to deal with it and can leverage that potentially horrible situation against the Red Sox.

          I am not saying AGon should absolutely get 8/200. That is the type of number Boggs should be coming to the table with though. Even though he is a year away from free agency Boggs should be able to leverage this situation to the point where he can get between Teixiera’s deal and 8/200. At the very least it is crazy for him to settle for anything less than 8 years.

          If Gonzalez doesn’t want to play that game though, that is his prerogative. But he definitely has the chips in his corner to get a huge deal even a year before he hits the open market.

          • On a side note “prerogative” (which you spelled correctly) is a very, very weird looking word. It’s like the Christopher Walken of the English language.

          • “On the one hand you could say that he is a year away from free agency so he has the Red Sox have leverage to push for a discount. On the other hand, Gonzalez can use the fear of him heading to the open market to leverage more money out of the Sox.”

            Yeah, you can say that for any player who is negotiating a new contract prior to free agency. Not really a unique case.

            You’re right… There are positives and negatives (related to negotiating prior to free agency) for both parties in this negotiation. There’s a give and take. The Sox give him a lot more money in 2011, and get to lock him up. Gonzalez gives up some leverage by signing before he’s a free agent so he’s signing in a closed market without any competition, but he gains the security of getting his big payday a year early (so he negates the risk of suffering some unforeseen injury or other incident in 2011 that takes the huge payday off the table).

            To think that he’s going to get a top of the market contract – or to think that he should – under these circumstances, I think is unrealistic. I think, given what we know about how the Sox tend to operate, we can’t expect them to bid against themselves. If they look to give him a contract that is below his top, open market value, he’ll wind up at or below Tex’s deal (and I’ll stand by my prediction that it’ll be below Tex’s deal).

            We could go back and forth all day about what Boggs should or shouldn’t be doing. I’ll just say this… People tend to think that parties should always open a negotiation shooting for the sky and only coming off their ideal (or more than ideal) demands, but that’s not true nor is it the way the world works. Business negotiations like these are high stakes, complicated, and have a lot of moving parts and competing interests involved – both within each party’s mind and vis a vis the party across the table. Boggs may not be making a big mistake by not starting at a record-setting level – he might be taking the dynamics of the situation into account, he might be taking his client’s interests and goals into account, he might be taking his prior conversations with the people across the table into account, etc. In forums like this we tend to oversimplify these things.

            One thing is for sure… Whatever the contracts winds up being, there will be a substantial number of Yankees fans who think he should have gotten more from the Sox.

            • One more thing… Just off the top of my head, I can’t think of anybody (non-Yankee division) who re-signed with their team, prior to free agency, for a record-setting contract. Can you? (Not arguing here, it’s an honest question. My hunch is that we’ll find that just about all the record-setting, huge contracts have gone to free agents on the open market and not to guys signing with teams a year or two prior to free agency.)

    • (crosses out John Boggs off potential baseball agent list)

  8. Big Stein says:

    Mike and Joe, are you guys bored by the lack of news/action at the winter meeting?

  9. bexarama says:

    I turned on MLBN and got to hear about how Andy is “definitely” retiring and how the 2011 Red Sox are omgtehfavoritz!

    I hate you, television.

  10. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Allegedly the Rangers were only prepared to offer Cliff Lee four years at first…

  11. Squishy Jello Person says:

    I am never going to get tired of looking at the Jesus Montero-signed bat sitting on my window sill.

    Just sayin’

  12. JJ Putz signed with Arizona for two years. That takes a potential pen piece out of the race. I think we should get another high strikeout artist to go along with Joba (provided he doesn’t get moved to the rotation) and D-Rob.

    My friend thinks that Colby Rasmus isn’t among the best CF in the game. That raises the question, who is the best CF in the game right now?

  13. candyforstalin says:

    6:09pm: Fuentes is looking for $6-8MM per season, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter).

    i’m looking for anna kournikova naked on a waterbed.

    /mackey’d

  14. In the event Andy leaves, we should sign:

    PEDRO!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDnXkFVEQ0Y

  15. Steve H says:

    Anybody interested in Brad Penny? He looks primed for a big season.

    http://boston.3432.voxcdn.com/.....042010.jpg (SFW)

  16. mbonzo says:

    I have a mystery pitcher to replace Pettitte in mind.

    As a starter in the minors he posteda 2.45 ERA with a 13.8 SO/9, and in the major he’s posted a career 4.18 era over a slightly inflated .322 BABIP in a very hard division. He’s very young and very cheap compared to his upside. He’s had better numbers as a starter and arguably better in the minors than Hughes, but is a few months older.

  17. The news about Andy clears up the Yankee budget questions. We all wondered how the Yanks are supposed to sign Lee, Jeter, Mo, fill out the bench and come in around last year’s budget. Now we know.

    • vin says:

      It kinda does, doesn’t it? I have a hard time believing they will roll the dice on Ivan Nova though. They’ll probably have to take on salary in a trade to get anyone decent (Chris Carpenter scenario).

  18. Kiersten says:

    Not baseball related, but 1 vs. 100 is the worst show ever. The people on there are SO stupid.

    The question was how many states do not touch another state?
    The contestant said it was definitely Hawaii, but one seemed like too obvious an answer so she was sure one of the Great Lakes states was surrounded by all lakes so she picked two. So of course she got it right even though she’s a moron, but get this – TEN out of 60 mob members got it wrong.

    1 in 6 people in America do not know that Alaska and Hawaii don’t touch the rest of the states. I am very concerned.

  19. Avi says:

    If you can have any three players in baseball for the 2011 Yankees, who do you take?
    Assume Andy comes back and the Yanks sign Lee.

    • mbonzo says:

      I’m assuming you’re talking about available players.

      Upton, Greinke, Lee.

    • vin says:

      Felix, Halladay, and Mauer. Since its a fantasy… Hughes and AJ to the pen. I was tempted by the likes of Pujols, Hamilton and Votto, but Mauer slots in quite nicely behind the dish (although I can be talked into Hamilton).

      Of course the right answer is Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, and Raymond Fuentes.

      • Avi says:

        Mauer is an interesting pick. If he’s ’09 Mauer it’s a no brainer but if he’s 2010 Mauer I think Pujols over Posada gives you a bigger upgrade (at DH) than Mauer over Montero (at cather). I don’t think Target Field alone explains the difference in ’09 and ’10 for Mauer.

  20. bonestock94 says:

    Just read the last update for the Pettitte post…Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  21. Kiersten says:

    There are few events I despise more than Patriots-Jets games.

  22. Patriots: Suck the big one, just like your baseball team.

    /hates New England

  23. Pettitte retiring doesn’t bother me so much. He’s been a terrific Yankee, has hinted at it for years so it can’t come as much shock. If staying home makes him happy at this point of his life, then God bless him and I wish him well.

    The only part that bugs me is that we didn’t get a chance to say goodbye. Roger freakin Clemens (who meant about 1/10th to the franchise Andy did) got a long, drawn out goodbye. Moose said goodbye. Paul O’Nie-el, Paul O’Nie-el, Paul O’Nie-el.

    This is the same feeling I had with Bernie. A bit empty.

    • I have the exact same feeling. At least give us the privilege to give you a bigass sendoff. Maybe Andy can throw the first pitch on Opening Day and he’ll get his big standing O.

    • Kit says:

      I agree. I don’t think I would have been ready to say good bye (still not), but at least we would have gotten the chance to deal with it over the season, not get all hyped up about having him back and with the possibility of Lee in the rotation. I am beyond sad right now.

    • bexarama says:

      All of this. That, and he’s my favorite Yankee, and has been since I was about nine years old. It’s going to be really hard to realize I was at his last game and I didn’t even know it at the time, and we all didn’t really get to say goodbye as a fanbase. Watching Yankee baseball is gonna be weird enough without Andy, honestly; I really wish he could get a proper send-off for “catharsis” (it’s not that serious but you know what I mean)

      This post is lame and sappy. So be it.

    • Kiersten says:

      Andy would totally get an An-dy Pett-itte sometime in early November.

    • ZZ says:

      Don’t get too upset yet.

      That empty filling will be filled up in a couple weeks when Andy announces his return for one more year. He was pitching too well last year before his injury to hang em up now. He has too much left in the tank and is going to empty it out in 2011.

      Yankee fans will get their proper send off. Trust in ZZ :D

  24. bonestock94 says:

    Ok, so Pettitte leaves but they nab Lee. Who’s #5?

  25. Xstar7 says:

    Call me crazy but the Patriots are the only New England sports team that doesn’t piss me off. Or maybe I’m just sympathizing with them because they’re playing against the Jets who we all know is going to win because they’re lucky.

  26. 12:12pm: The Red Sox are interested in lefty relievers Brian Fuentes and Ron Mahay, reports Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald. The Sox clearly have a need for southpaw relief, and unlike Scott Downs, Fuentes and Mahay will not cost a draft pick. Both are also unlike Scott Downs in their ability get hitters to make an out.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....entes.html

    Fixed that for ya. I can’t wait for the Sox to sign both of them.

  27. Kiersten says:

    Padres signed Aaron Harang.

    It’s all over for the Yankees.

  28. mbonzo says:

    Yankees are meeting with Pedro Feliciano’s rep… I like it for the right price.

  29. Steve H says:

    Come on Pats, beat Fat (Ryan), Drunk (Edwards) and Stupid (Cromartie)

  30. This question might be best directed at someone like Ben, but does anyone have a rough idea of what a site like MLBTR would pull in at this time of year?

    I’m asking, I have no idea. Could be a lot or a little, but the winter meetings must be their peak week.

  31. pat says:

    Ugh, Gruden all game? Bleh.

    • Carcillo says:

      I like Gruden quite a bit.

      • pat says:

        His analysis? Spot on.

        His over the top antics? No thanks, he becomes a parody of himself about halfway through the game.

        • Carcillo says:

          Most color analysts in sports suck now a days. Think about it, with MNF, we’re criticizing Gruden’s antics. With their baseball coverage, we’re criticizing the fact that they are all fucking incompetents.

  32. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Allegedly the Royals could deal Greinke quickly if the Jays are willing to include Drabek and Snider.

    h/t MLBTR

  33. theyankeewarrior says:

    Give me Lee or give me death

  34. pat says:

    Are you shitting me with that spot?

  35. Jimmy McNulty says:

    WAT

  36. Dela G says:

    that spot was horrible

    good challenge

  37. OXXBOW says:

    I have a feeling that Lee is going to get 6 years plus a 7th year “creative option” from the Yankees. Total package of ~ 175-180 million.

    BTW, it’s not definite that Pettitte’s retiring. If he does hang em up, the Yanks should trade for Gavin Floyd.

    I know a lot of people are saying that the Yankees will only pursue Crawford if they fail to sign Lee, but don’t be too surprised if they end up with both. You never know…

  38. Dela G says:

    please cut nick folk please

  39. Avi says:

    Seattle signed the best player of this year’s international amateur free agent class today, Estelion Peguero. I was hoping the Yanks would sign him. He got a 2.9M signing bonus. He’s supposed to be a very good hitter who now plays SS but likely will have to move to 2B or 3B.

  40. Pasqua says:

    Folk is fucking cooked.

    • Chris says:

      That was a 53 yd field goal, so there’s really no shame in missing it, but man was that attempt pathetic.

      • Carcillo says:

        He missed the net and he didn’t even kick it far enough.

        That kick was full of fail.

      • Pasqua says:

        Forget the yardage, that was a duck-hook, WITH the wind. Something is wrong there, and it ain’t the distance. The man has been shell-shocked shince Cleveland.

  41. Call it hindsight and kitchen-chair defensive backing, but it looks like Smith could’ve made a play on that ball if he didn’t turn his head.

  42. Carcillo says:

    I’m not understanding some of this play calling.

  43. pat says:

    HAHAHAHAH awesome kick.

  44. Dela G says:

    damn you eric smith

  45. pat says:

    Dunno why they dropped everyone into soft coverage on 3rd and 22. The secondary isn’t that good where they can cover all those little recivers for 10 seconds.

  46. Pasqua says:

    To keep me from crying about the Jets performance like a 5-year-old, I’ll just say this: Tackling is a lost art in the NFL. If guys aren’t torpedoing the receiver, they’re not doing anything.

  47. pat says:

    Use your effing hands Braylon. Geez.

  48. Ivan says:

    The Knicks are so much fun to watch than years past. And Amare has been terrific for the Knicks granted his rebounding still isn’t great but he’s sure piling up points.

  49. pat says:

    Bart Scott vs Wes Welker? This is the matchup you were looking for?

  50. Carcillo says:

    I guess I’ll be watching Seinfeld and South Park after all.

    Thanks, Jets, for proving once again the Giants are the team of New York Jersey.

  51. Esteban says:

    That there is why the NFL’s challenge system is stupid. The college review system is much better and is there to get calls right, not to be some useless new part of strategy.

  52. pat says:

    Lol, Pats punter is getting into it. Haha.

  53. Anthony Murillo says:

    Lee will receive a seven-year offer, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. At least one club has suggested they’re willing to offer a seven-year deal.

  54. pat says:

    Welp, you knew that was coming. Can’t just pound the rock. Nooooooooooope.

  55. cano is the bro says:

    damn, jets are getting their asses handed to them.

    glad im a giants fan and got to see them kick the redskins ass this week

  56. Carcillo says:

    Turn out the lights…

    the party’s over.

  57. Having a computer problem. I’m trying to save things to a blank disc for a class. I insert the disc into the drive, select it on my computer, click it, a box flashes on the screen, then disappears. I try dragging files to it? Nothing happens. I try burning the files to the disc? Nothing happens. Help?

  58. Anthony Murillo says:

    Man, this isn’t looking good for the Yankees. At all.

  59. JeffG says:

    Who has that kind of money? Phillies? Tigers? I could maybe see the Tigers being the gamblers…

  60. Steve H says:

    Courtesy of @AlbertBreer: Brady from start of Steeler game thru 1st play of 4Q (15+ qtrs) vs. Jets … 90-122, 1196 yds, 13 TD, 0 INT, 139.9 QB rat.

    Randy Who?

  61. bexarama says:

    RT @Ian_OConnor: for Jets and rex, this is Games 4,5,6 and 7 of the 2004 ALCS rolled into one. #nyj #patriots

    o i c

  62. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Wow the Jets really looked like shit tonight. Weak schedule, overrated QB, stupid coach, and an over the hill feature back usually means bad things. I found it hilarious when Bellicheck was running it up.

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