The Clifton and Carsten comparison

The RAB Radio Show: December 6, 2010
Yankees checked in on Harden
(AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Stop me if you’ve heard this before.

One of the game’s preeminent left-handed starters is a free agent, and he’s very much on the Yanks’ radar. In fact, it’s been an open secret for nearly a year that the Yankees have wanted to pursue this pitcher once he hits the open market, but there are fears that another team could step in. Rumors are that he enjoys playing close to home. Rumors are that if his home town team gives him the right contract, he’d gladly take it over a similar offer from the Yankees. Rumors are he wants more years than the Yanks want to give him, and that could be the so-called dealbreaker.

It’s beginning to sound a lot like CC, isn’t it? Clifton Phifer Lee and Carsten Charles Sabathia have been good friends since their days on the Indians. While the two didn’t come up together, they were teammates from 2002 until 2008, and if Brian Cashman and the Yankees have their way, the two lefties will again don the same uniforms.

The similarities in their free agent storylines are uncannily similar, and that’s no coincidence. In each case, the Yanks made it known that they wanted the pitcher in question, and in each case, the player’s side is playing it coy. Ultimately, it will come down to the dollars. If the Yankees overwhelm every other offer, as they have the resources to do, Lee will be in the Bronx come April. The pressure from the Players Union as well as the allure of the dollars is too strong to overcome whatever ties Lee built up over just three months in Texas.

But as the back of my mind is a question about the Lee and Sabathia sagas: Do we want them to end the same way? Do we truly want Lee to sign a six- or possibly seven-year mega-deal for Sabathia bucks?

For starters, a few key years separate Sabathia from Lee. When CC signed with the Yanks, he had just finished his age 27 season. It was the ideal time for him to hit free agency, and he signed a contract that could cover up through and including his age 34 season. Lee, on the other hand, just threw his age 31 season. A six-year deal would lock him up through his age 37 season and a seven-year deal through age 38. In baseball years, that’s a significant difference.

In Newsday today, Ken Davidoff opines on the Yanks’ choice. It’s quite the conundrum, he says:

Common sense tells you that the Yankees, who appear increasingly desperate to sign the lefthander, will be the team to step up to six. In doing so, they’ll ensure that Lee turns away the Rangers, for whom he enjoyed playing so much.

And baseball wisdom tells you that the Yankees, by doing so, again would be sacrificing long-term viability for the sake of a short-term gain. It’s a practice they’ve exhibited too often, even since Brian Cashman took full control of the baseball operations after the 2005 season.

On the one hand, the Yanks have been willing to let players go. Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon were both dispatched from New York amidst fan outcry, but the team didn’t suffer without them. On the other hand, though, the Yankees are saddled with A-Rod‘s monster contract, with A.J. Burnett‘s right arm, with three or four years of 37-and-counting Derek Jeter at 27-and-counting dollars. The team is paying more and more now to win later without focusing too much on the downside of that strategy.

One day, it’ll come back to bite the Yanks. Maybe in 2013 or 2014, we’ll suffer through a mediocre year of aging players who must play out the final few years of their careers and mega-contracts. Maybe we’ll regret this spending spree. Will another World Series make it all OK? That, said Davidoff, is “tomorrow’s problem.” Today, we worry about what it will take to land Lee, misgivings and all.

The RAB Radio Show: December 6, 2010
Yankees checked in on Harden
  • Monteroisdinero

    I know Texas plays most of their home games at night. Over a 6 year period, is this an unlooked at factor in terms of Cliff’s performance, preference, family?

    /strange thought?

    • Accent Shallow

      All teams except the Cubs do that.

      • Monteroisdinero

        not weekends.

  • B-Rando

    Yes Lee costs big dollars, but the Yanks need him. If its not him, they are going to have to give up prospects to land someone worthwhile, and then eventually pay them big dollars to keep them around.

    6 years is acceptable to me, 7 is outrageous. Lets hope the Yanks can get him at 6 years – 23-25mil per and go from there.

  • John

    I’m willing to have 1 or 2 mediocre years in exchange for World Series title(s). I think sometimes people on this site get caught up too much with the team’s finances and forget that we are fans. Every dynasty has lean years and this version will be no different. All we can do is to trust the front office that they have the ability to bounce back and start a new dynasty.

  • Jamal G.

    One day, it’ll come back to bite the Yanks. Maybe in 2013 or 2014, we’ll suffer through a mediocre year of aging players who must play out the final few years of their careers and mega-contracts.

    When Brian Cashman gained full control over baseball operations, he cited that he was fearful of the direction the organization was heading towards. With aging stars signed to long-term, expensive contracts and no emerging talent from within, the organization’s future was definitely not of the brightest. In 2008, we saw a bit of those fears when both injuries and possible age-related decline (A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Matsui, Wang, Chamberlain) just sank that team.

    However, with what is likely a top 6-8 farm system right now and players that will still be in their prime in the next 2 to 3 years (Cano, Chamberlain, Gardner, Hughes, Montero, Robertson and Sabathia), I don’t think the Yanks are at as much of a risk as they were in the mid-200’s of crashing and burning under the weight of their roster inflexibility.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      It’s really all dependent on how the Yankees use the farm. Will the prospects be shown patience or will they be traded and or demoted at first signs of struggle? We have some quality young players as you mentioned but Cano, Hughes and perhaps Gardner are all of it depending on how Montero develops. It’s a good starting core but with all our aging stars in 2013 or 2014 I don’t know if the younger players can carry the entire team.
      The risk of being like the mid 2000’s aren’t that great but it’s all dependent on how the Yanks utilize this farm. Call me crazy or irrational but I don’t have faith that patience will be shown when these guys get their chance.

      • Chris

        Trading the prospects is fine as long as they’re traded for guys on the right side of 30 – line Granderson and Swisher. The problem with the strategy of the mid-2000’s is that the Yankees traded prospects for guys like Randy Johnson.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          Not to disagree but they were on the verge of giving a large package for Lee who too is not on the right side of 30.

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            I’m not sure the distinction really matters, but he’s drawing a distinction between signing a guy as a free agent or trading prospects for a guy. He’s saying he doesn’t want to trade prospects for players over 30.

        • A.D.

          Agreed, basically the Yanks can have a larger but somewhat inefficent (in that getting greater production from the cheap kids and less from expensive vets) payroll in ’13 & ’14 if the kids can step up. So if you’re overpaying Burnett to not be a serviceable 5th starter that can be okay if a killer B has stepped up to be a front of the rotation guy at well under market value (or packaged for something similar).

  • Justin

    The most important info I get from this is…. Phifer?!?!?!

    It reminds me of, circa 1994…. “COSMO?!?!?!”

  • Hughesus Christo

    Did The Empire worry about long-term debt financing for the Death Star?

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Perhaps they should have. As I quote “Do you have–do you have any idea what this is gonna do to my credit?”

      /robot chicken’d

    • Jorge

      The Yankees are not the empire. This isn’t the Death Star. I know it makes for a quick laugh, but it doesn’t make it true.

      They should worry. Does that mean they currently SHOULD be worried? I tend to be in the Jahmel camp that the team will be able to balance the veterans with youth in those years and remain a solid contender.

    • Kevin G.
  • EVH 5150

    I’ll take the bad years for a WS title. I could use a new championship hat, maybe a nice WS sweatshirt!

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      “I’ll take the bad years for a WS title.”

      I think this false choice is far too prevalent in this discussion. The Yankees aren’t precluded from winning championships in the near future if they don’t sign Lee, the team even without Lee is a serious contender.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Not really. Their rotation last year wasn’t good enough for the post season, and that’s with Pettitte being tough as nails in his starts. They might not even have Pettitte. What’s this team at right now? 88 or a 90 win team? Christ, they’re not even the division favorites let alone a “serious” contender.

  • Johnny O (no alias)

    You don’t pay free agents just to pay them (see: $61M for Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright). But you do open the vault for Cliff Lee.

    • OldYanksFan

      Yup… cause there is no way, when you have 4 or 5 $100m contracts/$20m+/AAV guys, that guys like ARod, CC, Lee or Teix can get injured or underperform.

      • Johnny O (no alias)

        Was there a point in there somewhere? This has to do with Lee, not those other guys.

        What’s your plan, do you not sign any free agents? Spend your money on elite players, not middling players. So when the Yanks need a SP, they go all in on Cliff Lee rather than throwing $30M-$40M on Jorge De La Rosa and Ted Lilly and Carl Pavano just to fill a hole.

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          “Was there a point in there somewhere? This has to do with Lee, not those other guys. “

          No reason to be a douche. His point is that the Lee contract doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and it’s wise to consider the effect it’ll have on the payroll and the team’s flexibility moving forward, when considered in the context of the payroll-framework the Yankees have already created for the coming years.

          • Johnny O (no alias)

            I was responding to sarcasm with sarcasm. There’s also no reason to call me a douche if you really want to be the manners police.

            I know the Cliff Lee signing is not in a vaccuum, but Cashman’s free agency philosophy has been to sign the absolute best players and pay them as such, rather than just throwing money around to mediocre guys and overpaying them because they are free agents. I’d rather worry about CC and Lee underperforming than worry about Pavano or Kuroda or Lilly or Garland performing at all.

            If you don’t think that adding Lee at 5/$125M (and having two of the three best lefties in baseball) is worth having an inflexible roster, then say so and provide an alternative theory as to how the Yankees should approach free agency.

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Oh there was reason to call you a douche: your response to OldYanksFan was douchey. I’m not saying you can never be rude to someone, I just think you could hold back the rudeness until it’s called for. If you thought it was called for, fine. I thought it wasn’t, but I thought it was called for in my response to you. We’re all happy (and assholes).

              “If you don’t think that adding Lee at 5/$125M (and having two of the three best lefties in baseball) is worth having an inflexible roster, then say so and provide an alternative theory as to how the Yankees should approach free agency.”

              I’ve participated in this conversation here before and have posted a number of comments in this very thread about what I think about this issue, it’s not like I’m not putting my thoughts/concerns out there.

              • Johnny O (no alias)

                I’m hung over and cranky.

                Sounds like we both want Lee for 5 years, so if you have a guitar then I’ll sign Kumbaya.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Yeah… I’m still concerned about the payroll moving forward, but, understanding that the Yanks want this guy and think it’s a top-priority, if they have to go 5 years, I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with it. 6 or 7 years, to me, is just too much, I’d be very concerned if they went to that extent.

                  I’m being a bit vague, I guess, but that’s what happens when you’re concerned about signing an awesome player. I mean… Yeah, the guy’s great, and he’d improve the team, so it’s not like anyone can be totally against something like this. The years/dollars give me serious pause though, especially when viewed in the context of the other payroll commitments down the line.

                • king of fruitless hypotheticals

                  I’ve got a guitar, now sign kumbaya.

                  or watch these Japanese kids learning English sign it here:

                  Lee could blow out his shoulder the day after we sign. Or Jeter could rebound. Or Mo could…keep being Mo. Who knows.

                  Cashman Ninja Elf is good at economics AND finance, lets let him roll on this.

                  In the meantime, click through on some of these ads here at RAB so these guys can eat, youknowwhati’msayin?

  • SNS

    They definitely need him for 2011 but it would be hypocritical and foolish for Cashman to commit six years to him (god forbid the seven I saw on twitter yesterday). This is exactly what he was preaching in 2008, developing starting pitching. He needs to have confidence in developing starting pitching for the long term gain, rather than the short term benefit. Lee definitely deserves to be paid like one of the top starters in the league but at 32 years old the length of the contract should be 3-5 years. If Texas is willing to make that mistake and he wants to go to Texas all things being equal, then you live with it. Its time to let younger guys fill the roles, even if that means you have to let Nova start 30 games and sign a lesser starter to a short term one year contract. If you believe you can develop Banuelos, Brackman and Betances by 2012, then adding to Lee for six to seven years becomes foolish.

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      I tend to agree with you. I’m not in love with a 5-year deal, but if it must be done, I’d like to draw the line there. Load up that 5-year offer if you have to make it as competitive as possible, but going to 6 or 7 years just seems like too much to me.

      • CS Yankee

        Everything you both say is correct. However with Andy as doubtful for 2011, I feel we need at least 3 solid proven SP to get out of the East. CC & Hughes are two…AJ is a basket case & Nova/etc are not proven warriors.

        If they miss out on Lee, they’ll need to trade and pay a big premium. An extra 25M$ to the Lee camp for another year could be considered as what your saving on Pettitte and farm hands, couldn’t it?


        • JobaWockeeZ

          Gavin Floyd especially with kenny Williams may not be expensive. Hes been reported on being on the market too.

          • CS Yankee

            I would of thought that the owner would have ordered Kenny not to talk to cashman after he got hood-winked on the last deal.

            What did Floyd do (or not do) to get on Ozzie’s trade list?

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          If they don’t get Lee I’m not totally convinced they need to go out and throw a lot of prospects into a trade for another SP. You have to see what happens with Pettitte and what else Cashman has up his sleeve. I still think Pettitte’s coming back, I’m not too concerned with the recent noise on that topic. To me it just makes more sense to think he’d come back for one more year than to think he wouldn’t. With Pettitte back in the fold, you’ve got the same rotation going into 2011 that you had in 2010. I’m not saying I think that rotation will make it through the whole season intact nor that I want it to, but going into the season with that rotation, or with some lesser-option thrown into the mix, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. This isn’t Winter-’08 when the Yanks absolutely needed to add pitchers.

          • CS Yankee

            The Pettitte “noise” is at a bad time to hit publically though, as the need will appear larger than it is.

            The Javy pickup (at the time) seemed really solid as it took pressure off of having a couple kids play bigger roles (thinking back to the IPK, Phil & later Joba as SP in ’08).

            Cashman (& Theo as well) have done well when other teams need/want to dump salaries. This year it doesn’t seem to be such the case. The Nats are trying to play big and I would think the O’s will want to counter and get someone worth something one of these days.

            The 250M$ payroll is not far off, i believe.

    • John

      You can believe you can develop the The B’s all you want, but when the ability to sign Cliff Lee presents itself you have to do it. I’d rather not see them empty the vault and give Lee a lifetime contract, but if they do there’s really nothing the fans can do. At the end of the day, I just want the Yankees to win and and not worry what happens in 2013.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        “I just want the Yankees to win and and not worry what happens in 2013.”

        I want the Yankees to win and worry about what happens in 2013, and beyond.

        • John

          I meant I didn’t want to worry about 2013. They should because it’s their job.

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Ok I’ll amend my response:

            I want the Yankees to win in 2011 and I’m also concerned with the long-term outlook.

      • SNS

        See I just don’t think Cliff Lee merits that at age 32. CC I could understand, at the time he was 28 years old. Not to mention, when you signed CC, there was no CC on the staff already and Phil Hughes wasn’t at his stage. My point is that Cliff Lee at six or seven years is a very bad investment and there should be some alternative that they can explore. They should not be in a position where the only solution is a $175M investment in a 32 year old pitcher. With the amount of money and resources they have at their disposal, there should be internal or external options that may not be as easy or obvious as Cliff Lee, but balance out the needs for now, as well as for the next three years.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          But wasn’t a zomgAJ in the picture? Turns out it was just regular AJ.

          Who knows which Dustin Mosely we’re going to get next year. ZOMGDUSTIN or…hey…we didn’t resign that guy? Which guy? You know…Dusty-what’s-his-name.

  • CS Yankee

    Offering Lee 5/125 is legit and sound business. It should keep Texas away from the table and whatever the crazy Nats do needs to be a moot point.

    Lee’s choices should be something like…
    Stay in Texas for 4/100M$ and have a WS shot or two in that time.
    Go to NY for 5/125M$ and have a good WS shot every single year.
    Go to Nats and get 7/175M$ and visit the monuments and crack heads.

    Seems though a 6/150M$ deal might have to be made to close the deal. In having Andy retire, they could plug that into the equation and have Nova as the fifth starter until Brackman is ready (maybe August).

  • Luis Sojo the Pasta Eating Machine

    I think this is why the Yankees really need to sign Lee. If they miss out they’ll have to trade prospects for a starter to fill out the rotation and will have fewer possible homegrown options in the future. I would much rather the Yanks overpay for the occasional top tier free agents than have to try to pull off trades to fill those needs.

    • AndrewYF

      “If they miss out they’ll have to trade prospects for a starter to fill out the rotation and will have fewer possible homegrown options in the future.”

      If they trade for, say, Gavin Floyd, they wouldn’t be giving up one of the ‘Killer Bs’, they’d be giving up some options that project to the bench like Laird, and/or back-of-the-rotation Yankee starters like Warren, Nova and/or Noesi.

      Especially if Pettitte comes back, the Yankees will basically have their rotation from last year, and that was certainly good enough to give them a deep playoff run.

  • FIPster Doofus

    Jon Heyman just tweeted: “#nats “very much” in on cliff lee. Rumor is they may throw out 7 year offer.”

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Natinals have to be drugged or drunk right now.

    • OldYanksFan

      Yeah… 7 years, $98m.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Apparently their 85-year-old owner is desperate to win, so he might pay through the nose. We’ll see.

  • mko

    I think Cliff Lee may still be very good when he’s older. With the control he has, even diminishing stuff won’t stop him.

  • OldYanksFan

    OK… if you know the answer to this one, raise your hand.
    In 2004, when the economy was OK and unemployment was not an issue, how many of you thought we were just 4 years away from a near depression, 10% unemployment, and a decade or so needed to recover?

    It’s easy for fans to say “It’s not our money… SPEND BIG!”. But if you owned a big business, would you not consider the future impact of large, long term commitments?

    In the age of free agency and with the money the Yankees are worth, it’s hard to imagine a 1965 type collapse. But if you WANTED to make that happen, the formula would be: lots of long contracts where AAV values end up costing more then $5m/WAR.

    I’m not panicing, but ignoring sound financial planning never seems to be a good idea.

    Again, offer Lee 5/$118m and see who tops it.
    And if anyone does, Lee will come back to the Yankees, and give them an opportunity to make him even richer.

    • CS Yankee

      10% unemployment is what is listed but it is believe that another 5-10% don’t qualify do to underemployment, quit, benefits expired, etc.

      But if you look at it the other way, don’t you think 20% of the eligible population are unemployable?

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        that’s a horrible, caustic thing to say.

        i feel so bad for laughing at it–i blame you.

    • JerseyDutch

      An old Yankees fan by definition should not be using WAR to prove his argument. :)

      But I agree with the gist of what you’re saying.

      • OldYanksFan

        Lots of old guys use ‘Warrents Another Run’ to prove a point.

  • mark

    I disagree with this statement: “On the one hand, the Yanks have been willing to let players go. Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon were both dispatched from New York amidst fan outcry, but the team didn’t suffer without them.” The Yankees were complete unable to get a big hit during September and the playoffs. Both Damon and Matsui thrived in those situations. Both were extremely clutch hitters.

    • Matt Imbrogno

      This is parody, right?

    • JerseyDutch

      2009 version, true. 2010 version, not so much.

      Hard to say if the team would have been any better with them this year.

      • Johnny O (no alias)

        Gardner, Swisher, and Granderson all outperformed Matsui and Damon on bWAR. Maybe they would’ve had slightly better numbers playing half their games at YS3, but probably not. It was fun while it lasted, but very very glad we didn’t have to watch Damon in LF this year or had Matsui clog up DH.

  • Louis

    Nats are offering 7 years

    • AndrewYF

      Good thing they didn’t trade Montero+ for Lee.

      • CS Yankee

        Good thing they didn’t trade Montero for ring #28; as he will help them get their 33rd as well.


  • nathan

    I think Yanks need to show discipline, for all I care Cashman can offer 27 M per, but dont go over 5 years.

    I am scared to look at the committed money for the 2013 and beyond. And somewhere there Cano’s contract needs to be reupped too.

    Cash$$ needs to be smart, we cant sign them all, do something innovative. If Nats really offer 7 or even 6 for that matter he should walk away. This is not an ego issue, we cant have them all.

    • JerseyDutch

      Agreed. More money but not more years. No more albatross contracts should be Cashman’s motto.

      • CS Yankee


        Arod’s is the mother of all Albatross’s
        AJ’s is a Albatross
        Teix is a Raven
        Jete’s is a Goose (they soar higher then they should)
        Cano’s is a bluebird (sweet singing)

        I would like to see Cashman extend Hughes (like he did with Cano) while he is still cheap.

  • ChrisR

    What’s with Washington offering these huge deals?? It better not affect us getting Lee. I hope he prefers 6 years of New york and not 7 in Washington.

    • nathan

      Think abt it, they play in NL (NL East is a little tight). The team has promising youngsters like Harper, Strausberg and Soren. They have the Zimmerman. They can sell a vision. This cannot match what Yanks can sell, but with a 7 yr contract and already 2 trips to the WS I think he is more concerned with total money than anything else.

  • OldYanksFan

    No one answered me!
    Who goes higher then 5/$118m?
    Texas can’t afford that, can they?

    • nathan

      I dont see why Angels cant match that or Texas for that matter. If you are talking 6+ then those 2 may drop out.

  • kosmo

    Some of you seem to suggest trading prospects is a sin .Where the hell are these guys going to pitch? The Yanks have maybe 2 starting roles to fill .If they sign Lee longterm then it´s down to one.CC,Hughes and Burnett are not going anywhere anytime soon.Lee would make it 4.If Pettitte resigns then the Yanks are sitting on at least 6 SP prospects.Brackman,Noesi,Nova,Warren,Phelps and Banuelos and perhaps Stoneburner.Some of these guys will ultimately be trade bait.In 2011-12 if Pettitte retires then there´s 1 job for 6 or 7 .Most of these guys are one year away.

  • Not Tank the Frank

    Regarding Ken Davidoff’s article:

    I think people are getting a little too carried away with worrying about the big contracts and older players. I think these concerns have become amplified recently because of Jeter’s new contract, the reality that the Yankees will have a very old left side of the infield in the coming years, and the seasons that left side just had.

    However, I don’t think that the Yankees are in any serious trouble in the future. I think guys like Teixeira, Sabathia and Lee are precisely the kinds of players you want to give these types of contracts to; if you’re going to go that route. Jayson Werth, for example, not so much.

    I just hate it when people act like the Yankees will be nothing but aging, declining players in a few years. Teixeira will be 36 when his contract EXPIRES. Look at what Konerko just did in his age 34 season. I think Teixeira, with his skillset, will probably have another nice payday coming to him after the Yankee deal is done. Sabathia is a true horse who has shown no sign of injury as of yet and that contract has been worth every penny. He’ll be 35 when his contract expires. The point is that by the time these contracts are coming off the books, the Yankees (I believe) will only have paid for one, possibly two years of actual decline. AJ Burnett will be long gone by this time. As will their $18 million closer and (towards the end) their $15 million, 40-year-old shortstop.

    As these mega contracts come to a close, the Yankees will have two Cy Young winning pitchers in their rotation either entering their decline or perhaps a couple years into their decline, an all-time great slugger who will most likely be the team’s DH, and a first baseman who will most likely (again, my opinion) still be giving the team good production both offensively and defensively.

    That’s four positions. Four positions that will no doubt be eating up a huge chunk of the Yankees payroll, but who’s to say what that will be in 2015-2017? And, as I’ve stated with my points previously, if there are players you give these kinds of contracts to, these are those kinds of players.

    I’m also very encouraged by the strength of the Yankee farm system, not just this year but in years past as well. I think it’s a huge asset because of the way the Yankees are run. This team will need contributions from their farm. They’ve already had some great contribution from the farm on the field AND via trade. I believe they’re in a position for this to continue for a long time. I don’t think Cashman’s an idiot. I think he knows he has a lot of years and a lot of money locked up in only a few (elite) players. He knows he’s going to need cost-controlled contribution from the farm. He knows he’s going to need to fill the other positions with younger, cheaper talent via trade. He’s done all this. I’m happy with the way the Yankees are being run and I’m very confident about their future.

  • virginia yankee

    Maybe in 2013 or 2014, we’ll suffer

    we will suffer at once — Cashman is comfortable buying free agents, he is unable to make meaningful trades and it does not appear anyone in the Yankees org can help him other than by establishing a budget

    The Yankees do not need another aging player, pitcher especially – history they were beaten by youth P – Rangers (not so much Lee see Lee vs Giants) Marlins, Tigers, Angels, Tampa, Toronto, and nearly by Oakland —

    The team is aging faster than the fan base can appreciate — it is statistically more likely that Posada, Jeter, ARod, will have less than standard years – they will get worse as Lee and CC age. Cashman needs to spend money by upgrading the OF since he can do nothing about Jeter and ARod yet – the OF needs to carry the transition of SS to someone and ARod to DH and they need to add young P to CC, Pettit, AJ to make that transition —

    Get creative — Look at the years 2002 to 2008 and 2010 or worse the Orioles 1996 – 2010

    The GIANTS may have been the WORST position team to make it to the WS much less win one since – well perhaps ever; yet they had no trouble with Lee — he is not worth the $s, the years, or more importantly a continuation of the Cashman approach — anyone could spend the Yankee money on thenext available free agent. Fans want to give Cash credit for Tex, ARod, Damon, CC — these were obvious

    • kosmo

      Worst position teams that come to mind :
      1965 Dodgers
      1969 Mets
      1988 Dodgers

      to name 3.