Yanks offer Lee seventh year

2010 Rule 5 Draft Liveblog
A bidding war for a backstop

Sports Illustrated’s Jon Heyman reports that the Yankees have added a seventh year to Cliff Lee’s offer. There aren’t more details, but I presume this happened last night after the Crawford news broke. Last night Ken Rosenthal reported that Lee would make his decision before the end of this weekend.

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2010 Rule 5 Draft Liveblog
A bidding war for a backstop
  • teddy

    not cool, but this off season is way off the charts

    • Gerald Williams

      I’m really upset the Yankees let Crawford go…and to Boston of all teams! That Werth deal really screwed up the market for the Yanks off-season. I think Lee is great, but not for SEVEN YEARS! I was almost hoping we didn’t get Lee, signed Crawford and then traded Gardner + for an ace. Now the Yanks are forced to go all in for Lee because without Pettite and Lee, our rotation is pretty scary. CC and Hughes can’t pitch every game. I do have a funny feeling though that Burnett is going to bounce back in a big way! Where’s IPK when you need him?
      (just kidding about that last part)

      • Sayid J.

        If Yankees could trade Gardner + for an ace, I imagine they’d still consider it.

    • Sal

      The last two years of his contract he can be used as a ball park greeter if he is no longer effective as a pitcher.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    As long as it’s less than CC’s contract I’m okay with the 7th year.

    • Pasqua

      We can re-visit this thought in about five-to-six years. If Lee is on the shelf because of injury (or ineffectiveness) by then, the fact that his deal was less than CC’s will be little consolation to the team, the fans, and the media.

      • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

        And if we win 2 championships in those 5-6 years? I’d say that’d be consolation enough.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          And if we don’t win….

          • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

            Then his and every other big contract on the Yankees apparently wasn’t enough.

            • Scout

              No contract, of course, ever guarantees a championship. Deals such as this are about increasing the likelihood of success deep into the post-season, before core players are too old to be effective.

        • Pasqua

          We can certainly hope.

        • John Maddon

          coulda done it without lee, much like they almost did this year.

  • Beantown Bombers Fan

    Fingers crossed that this doesn’t turn out to be a disaster.

  • Tom T

    Shoot first, ask questions later. Gotta do it. Red Sox lineup weakness may be vs left handed pitching (ellsbury, gonzalez, craw, ortiz, drew).

  • Johnny

    I guess the Crawford deal put a little pressure on Cashman. Lets face, if Yanks don’t land Lee and Pettitte retires the current rotation is scary.

    • http://aol.com Alex

      completely agree. If the Yanks can’t sign Lee, they must make a trade for a #1 pitcher (I would love to get Wainwright).

      • Klemy

        I doubt you’d be able to obtain him at any type of decent cost. The only pitcher they’d part with right now is probably Carpenter.

      • morgan.733

        King Felix! King Felix

    • mike o

      cashman is the worse GM in baseball,he can not get it done,he is sending the yanks down the toilet,he can not get a front line anything unless he has a blank check as when he overpayed for tex and aj

  • Sheepmeister

    So, Cash says that the 7 year offers does not affect them, but then Crawford signs, he still says it won’t affect their plans. Now Heyman says 7 year offer. Does not compute.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Wait, you mean that GMs don’t always tell the truth? Fuhgedaboudit!

  • Pasqua

    Yeesh. There’s going to be a lot of crossed fingers in this town for the next seven years.

  • mbonzo

    Thought it would come down to this. Yankees do have good experience signing pitchers past their prime. Hopefully this doesn’t bite them in the ass, they seem to know what they’re doing.

  • Randy

    Unfortunately they were forced to adjust to the market. I don’t think its the end of the world if they give a seventh year. Having a strong rotation trumps whatever lineup additions the sox have made.

  • Doug

    so much for the yanks not changing their stance due to other signings and offers

    • The Big City of Dreams

      So much for the Yankees drawing a hard line in the sand when it comes to FA’s unless it’s their own players

      • Doug

        their own 37-year old, past their prime players

        • CS Yankee

          Be fair, Pettitte after the ’03 season was kicked to the curb along with Wells.

          However, The BoSox lead all sport teams with regards to poor treatment of current stars/heros.

          • ChrisS

            I don’t lose a whole lot of sleep over how millionaires perceive they are treated by their bosses.

            • CS Yankee

              I don’t use any sleep over anything.

              However as a fan you grow an attachment to a players performance on the field and when he conducts himself well in his private life you like for that to continue.

              When it doesn’t and they get a player like Shef’, it takes some of the luster out (for me at least). I still cheer and watch, but it is not the same. Can you relate?

              • pete

                not really, tbh. All i care about is on-field production.

  • Mark

    Maybe there will be performance bonuses and option(s) past 5 years rather than guaranteed 7 years. No matter what: 7 years guaranteed for $20+ MIL is stupid and bad business. I hate this.

  • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

    Predictable panic move but you can’t really say his market value doesn’t warrant it. I don’t see how Lee doesn’t sign with the Yankees now, no way the Rangers can match that.

    My question is do the Yankees lower the AAV slightly to compensate for a 7th year?

    • Doug

      7/161 sounds about right

    • Pasqua

      I would think they’d lower the AAV. They’re responding to an increased need, but not a direct offer challenge. Keeping the AAV the same and adding a year might be overkill.

  • Yea I said it

    This is givin me constipation..we need to sign Russel Martin and then trade Jesus+ for Upton and then trade Swisher/Grandy for Harren/Weaver..its just my knee jek reaction.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Jesus+ doens’t get it done. Russell has been a lack hole for 2 years straight, and without Crawford Haren and Wever are staying.

      • http://bronxbombersreport.com Craig

        Well I’m glad you’re not our GM. Since when does Russell Martin offer the Yankees anything close to enough production to warrant moving Jesus Montero?

        • JobaWockeeZ

          Reply fail? I haven’t said anyhting about moving Montero. I just argued that Maritn is not a solution.

    • Jonathan

      wow…great plan. Except it would take a ton more than Montero for Upton and also a ton more for Haren/Weaver. I’m guessing our top 10 prospects would all be gone for those two. You could still just sign Martin/Lee and have better team in 2011 and keep all your prospects. this is just ridiculous.

    • http://twitter.com/astrophunq Dax J.

      Your knee jerk reaction is killing you. We don’t need Upton right now. We need pitching.

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      Your trade proposal sucks.

    • pat

      Your trade proposal sucks.

    • http://aol.com Alex

      Unless they’re getting a top player, such as Pujols or Hanley, the Yanks should never trade Jesus. Montero poses all of the tools to be a star in this league. The second potential deal you mention I like but idk why the Angels would ever do that.

  • Mickey Scheister

    Cliff Lee making 23M in his age 39 season, my one year old will be 8 and my 6 year old will be 13 when this deal is off the books, for perspective. Amazing for a pitcher who’s 32. He went under the knife for bone spurs (in his foot/ankle) or something before the 2010 season with the M’s. I pray this doesnt look as bad as it sounds years 4-7, if the reports are legit. A left handed Greg Maddox, we hope!

    • Pasqua

      Which begs the question, will your 13-year-old be able to pitch for the Yanks by then? Get on it, please.

      • Mickey Scheister

        He’s a righty, doubtful. The 1 year old is supposedly a lefty, he’s the one! He watches every game with me, he’s gonna be the next Mitre? Maybe I should aim higher.

        • Pasqua

          I have a two-year-old who’s showing lefty tendencies. My heart races everytime he winds up with the left arm. It’s so, so sad…

          • Mickey Scheister

            We have the next 2028 prospects!!

            • Jimmy

              Scheister and Pasqua’s kids will be duking it out to pitch the eighth in 2028 behind 60 year-old Mo.

              • http://bronxbombersreport.com Craig

                If/when I have a son, he’s throwing lefty. Buy him a glove that goes on his right hand and he’s got no choice.

          • Klemy

            Same thing here. lol

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          Mitre, if he could get that high, would be fantastic!

          how many of you would trade what you’re doing for a living right now to pitch, at more than league minimum, for a few clubs and then the New York Yankees?

          That’s a great aim point if you can hit it.

      • RobC

        my 13 y/o is a lefty, natural cut on his FB, working on the change up

    • Ace

      That is scary. And hasn’t he had a back problem in the past too? A monstrous seven year deal for a 32 year old pitcher. WTF is going on.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    Ugh

  • BklynJT

    Blame the stupid GM of the nationals!!!!

    • Doug

      true enough. werth’s deal blew up the market

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Blame the Yankees

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R.- Retire 21

      I blame A-Rod.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        I blame Bush.

  • Jonathan

    Damn. I always thought we should have traded for Halladay but now i wish we did even more. Do you think the Yankees had any idea he’d take only 3 years?

  • GermanYankee

    I don’t buy that. I still think Cash will not offer more than 6 years.

    • BklynJT

      I’m not that surprised really.

  • http://yanksdraftsandprospects.blogspot.com/ Jake H

    I can’t believe that they would go to a 7th year.

    • Reggie C.

      i’d like to think Cashman is immune from knee-jerk reactions. adding a seventh year clearly qualifies as one.

      oh well…it’ll be worth it when Cliff Lee whips 1.20 for the next several years!

    • Chris

      I can. Cashman has said before that you target the players and pay them what the market demands. It means that you’re going to overpay players some (maybe even a lot) of the time, but it also means you’re going to win a lot of games.

  • Mickey Scheister

    I know why these albatross type contracts are being handed out like soup at a free soup kitchen…the world is gonna end Dec 21, 2012 anyways so in reality these are all one year contracts.

    /ikid?

  • mac1

    It’s a nutty contract, but I get it, the Yanks need him and the reality probably is if they don’t get him and have a down year or two it will probably cost the Yanks financial empire alot more in $ than his decline years will.

    Personally, I want him and Greinke (nothing against Andy, but maybe its time to move on), sign Russell Martin take the chance on Scott Downs (forgo the draft pick) and get ready to play in October the next 3 years.

    I also think the 7th year on Lee was inevitable since Sandy Alderson signed Carrasco AND Paulino – lets face it, there’s a new Sheriff in town and that made Cash blink – damn those Harvard lawyers…

    • http://bronxbombersreport.com Craig

      No, don’t forgo the draft pick to sign Scott Downs.

  • Gonzo

    Wait! Does this give Jeff Passan enough time to change his tune about 7 years?!?

  • mike

    Get Lee at all costs!!!!!!!!! If he wants 10 years give it to him, we need lefties to neutralize the Red Sox lineup

  • Reggie C.

    sad sad day.

    Looks like we blinked.

  • TopChuckie

    Again, I don’t really understand why the Yankees make offers at all. If I was Cashman I’d say, “Look, I’m interested in your player, you know I have the most resources, if your player is truly interested in playing for the Yankees, for the most money, go get your best offer, bring me their offer sheet, and I will tell you if I’m willing to top it. If I do top it, you will be expected to sign immediately. The Yankees will not be shopped.”

    THAT is the leverage the Yankees have, but they waste it.

  • Reggie C.

    Red Sox 3, Yankees … 0?

    RS achievements these past 4 days:
    1. Adrian Gonzalez
    2. Carl Crawford
    3. Offering Lee a 7th year, on low AAS, but forcing Cashman to go that extra year.

    • China Joe

      then it should be Red Sox 2, Nationals 1, Yankees 0…

      the Nationals made the Red Sox go to 7 years on Crawford with their crazy Werth contract, even though speed guys tend not to age well.

    • TopChuckie

      The Red Sox 7-year offer to Lee is irrelevant, it was already exposed as not a serious offer due to AAV and withdrawn. The 7-years given to Werth and Crawford, the other two of the Top 3 FA’s is what gives Lee the ability to expect the same, and Theo certainly didn’t give Crawford 7 because it would force the Yankees hand, he did it because his hand was also forced.

    • Chris

      Gonzalez and Crawford replace the production of Martinez and Beltre, so they’re basically just standing still. Same deal with the Yankees and Jeter/Mo. Neither team has significantly upgraded yet – although Lee could change that.

      • boogie down

        I think AGon is a definite upgrade over Martinez, both offensively and defensively. And though I don’t see Crawford OPSing .919 like Beltre did last year, I do expect him to get a modest — but noticeable — boost from playing in Fenway 81 times a year. All told, while I don’t think that they’ve become a clear-cut favorite (yet), I do believe that the Sox have become appreciably better.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          cc falls in steals this year because he won’t face Red Sox catchers…

      • Joe R

        While thats half true, they were also missing Youk, Pedroia and Ellsbury for most of the year. So their offense is pretty freakin good.

    • theyankeewarrior

      The Red Sox lost Vmart and Beltre… did you include that in your scoring?

      • Russell NY

        The Red Sox are spending a potential 44 million a year on 2 players for the next 7 years – one who just came off shoulder surgery and one whose sole attribute is speed. That needs to be included as well.

        Short term though they are a beast. Until Crawford tweaks something.

        • FIPster Doofus

          That’s a terrible and biased assessment of Crawford. He brings a great package of offense and defense to the table in addition to speed.

          • Sayid J.

            His offensive and defensive package is largely tied to his speed.

            • pete

              That. He has mediocre power and OBP for a corner OF

    • theyankeewarrior

      Oh, and the Yankees helped drive up the price on Crawford as well

    • Pounder

      The Red Sox had to trade 6 prospects to get them back to square 1 on their flubbing on Texiera.If the Yanks signed Crawford,it would be for more than 20+ per season.Not when you have a cheaper,though not quite as talented LFer yourself.The Yanks have a reasonably cost effective,and performance effective, OF now.If Carlos Gonzalez ever goes on the market,I expect the Yankees would go all out for him.
      But I dream.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals

        Call this statement what you will now, as long as you’re willing to judge it again in seven years:

        Brett Gardner will have higher rate states and higher counting stats over the next seven years, and will be a much better value given his salary.

  • Enoch44

    Have faith in the Ninja…..

    • Gerald Williams

      Ninja Ca$h needs to go get us Cain or Wain!

  • China Joe

    If you’re gonna give money to a pitcher up to that age he better be 1. a lefty and 2. have good enough command and pitching smarts that he can effective at and advanced age.

    Luckily, Cliff Lee is both those things. I think he’ll age better than, oh, let’s say Josh Beckett.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Or even Sabathia.

      • CS Yankee

        CC is more of a proven warrior, to me at least…

        less time in the minors, less injuries, more innings, will pitch whenever, and seems to gel better with the players of the teams he has played for.

        Both are aces for sure, I’ll take both please.

        • FIPster Doofus

          Lee doesn’t gel with the teams he plays for? Explain.

          • CS Yankee

            I didn’t say that.

            When CC was traded from Cleveland, I recall how his teammates were bummed and mixed with the public statements of the Milwaukee’s owner on how well he was liked and wanted him to stay. Also when CC became a Yankee, he took his teammates to basketball games and such.

            Cliff Lee departure was strange from Philly but I haven’t heard anything negative nor do i precieve anything negative with him.

            CC seems to go of his way compared to everyone (or most everyone) else.

            • FIPster Doofus

              What about Ian Kinsler lobbying Lee to re-sign?

  • http://aol.com Alex

    The Yankees have to offer Lee 7 years and sign a deal ASAP at this point. The Red Sox’ strategy of signing players is turning into that of the Yankees, and the Yankees need to show that they are still the kings of the AL EAST. Also, in addition to getting Lee, the Yankees must upgrade their RF position and likely trade Swisher, since the lineup looks a bit weak now (especially compared to Boston). Look, I know he had a great season last year, but Swisher’s trade value is at its peak and two bad years in the playoffs won’t cut it in NY. A couple guys I really like to potentially be in RF who I would like the Yanks to acquire: Juston Upton (if the price doesn’t require Montero), Matt Kemp, Andrew McCutcheon (if available), and shall I even say, potentially Carlos Beltran.

    • Guest

      Why, on G-d’s green earth, would the Diamondbacks trade Upton to the Yankees without getting Montero (plus a whole ton more)?

      Really. Why would they do it?

    • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

      That guy earlier with the bad trade suggestion? He’s off the hook. You win.

      Also, for all the Red Sox additions, they gave out 300 million dollars in contracts, 3 of top 10 prospects, and Crawford/Gonzalez give them an upgrade of 1.1 fWAR over what Beltre and V-Mart produced last year. Forgive me if I don’t crown them champion yet.

      • RuleroftheBone86

        IETC.

      • Not Tank the Frank

        Nice.

    • pat

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • CS Yankee

      Whoa, let’s not reach for the panic button but rather the fact sheet;

      1) Crawford is now the highest paid OF (OF ALL TIME).
      2) Sox played like 11 different OF’ers last season.
      3) This signing actually helped the West teams against the Angels, which may just help the Rangers by letting go of Lee and realizing they have a mortgage to pay first.
      4) The Yankees payroll has been steady for about 6 years now. They won’t let the DeadSox have a higher payroll (ego & finance based), they can go to 250M$ if/when their competitors warrant such a thing.
      5) The Sox needed this…Theo promised them that they were going big this year (“bridge year” of 2010) and the chump deal with SD almost made them eat heavy crow.
      6) The real small market teams are gonna wakeup and see that Theo signings to avoid luxary tax is hurting them and I’m sure that first day signing crap goes away.

      Drew won’t/can’t play everyday, Els was limited when he was healty, Cameron is old and is breaking down and will move to the 4th spot. Having a 8-9M$ guy as your fourth OF has to suck but it does give them solid depth, but they are likely to need that depth.

      They are better, but also lost big WAR guys…have some deep money invested with 4 starters while only two of them are adding any value.

      Keep Swish, sign Lee and visit Pettitte and his family.

      • Yank the Frank

        Thank you, I’m starting to breath normal again.

        • CS Yankee

          27-6 should do that for as well.

          • CS Yankee

            err, left out the you.

            27-6 should do that for you as well.

      • rek4gehrig

        Me like. Me like very very much.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals

      I stopped when you said upgrade RF.

      you do realize Nick Swisher is an awesome cost controlled player right?

      I mean, if he were a switch hitter he’d be perfect…

  • Guest

    Baseball, like everything, is about leverage.

    Right now, Lee has leverage. The Sox have a totally left hand dominated lineup and we have…a hole in our rotation. Lee’s people know the 2011 Yankees need him.

    So this is going to be expensive. But if someone wants to toss out a realistic alternative to signing Lee that will give the Yanks a good shot at competing with the Red Sox, I’d like to hear it (if you’re thinking about writing Montero+ for Greinke, just stop it unless your “+” includes the rest of the farm system).

    *Crickets*

    • TopChuckie

      Again, the only leverage Lee has is the next best offer. If I’m Cashman I insist Lee comes to me if he wants what he knows will be his best offer.

  • RobC

    Pujols most be salavating over all these signings and offers

    • China Joe

      Pujols is crying in is beer…the Yankees and Red Sox are both locked in at first base for the long term

      • YankeesJunkie

        Nah, the Cards are going to have to pay huge! For guy like Pujols an 8/240 deal would not surprise me.

      • RobC

        He is Albert Pujols.
        Find spot for him.
        Locked in finacially is more a blocker than the positions on the feild.
        Both he and Teix have already changed positions once.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          Great we can spend 30 mil for Lee and A-Rod, 40 mil for Pujols, and 20 mil for Jeter, Teix, and CC.

        • FIPster Doofus

          Pujols to the eighth!

          • Klemy

            I don’t know. Does he have that grunt and fart mentality that’s needed for “teh 8th!1ONEwon!”

        • the Other Steve S.

          For Albert, Tex can sell popcorn.

    • Luis Sojo the Pasta Eating Machine

      Washington will sign him for 10/300. You seen it here first.

      /internetexpert’d

  • Craig

    I’m fine with offering Lee the seven year deal we NEED him and the market has blown up this offseason so he is going to get a mega deal now…. I still feel the yankees should sign Russel martin and Trade jesus+ for Grenkie… Let the sox sign these big hitter and we will get the big pitchers.. Good pitching > good hitting

    • YankeesJunkie

      The seventh year is worrisome, but Lee does have a better skill set that ages than say…Carl Crawford. In any likely case Lee will need to put up about 25 WAR throughout his career to be worth the contract, a little more or less depending on playoff performance.

      • http://bronxbombersreport.com CraigMW

        Damnit…this bootleg “Craig” just made me change my name on here. I don’t want to be associated with anyone who is willing to trade Jesus Montero – the NO. 1 OFFENSIVE PLAYER IN MILB – just because the Yankees sign bum-ass Russell Martin. C’mon man!

        • CS Yankee

          We need Jesus to watch and develop while we win #28 and to help us win #29-33 in the future.

  • Johnny

    This is the year of seven year contacts.

  • ND Mike

    The one solace that I have with locking Lee to a long term deal is that it worked out when they signed Moose to his long term deal. Here’s hoping he’s a lot more Moose than Barry Zito.

    • AndrewYF

      Thing about Moose was that he was a year younger, had a much longer track record of health and success, and he had just pitched right smack dab in the middle of the greatest offense-oriented period in the game’s history.

      I’d say Lee is a bit less now than Moose was then.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Moose debuted with the Yankees at the age of 33. Lee won’t be 33 until August.

        • FIPster Doofus

          Correction: Moose was 32 when he debuted with the Yankees. Lee will be too.

    • CS Yankee

      As long as the drought that arrive when Moose came doesn’t return.

  • Luis Sojo the Pasta Eating Machine

    Meh… the FA market kinda forced Cashman into this.

    Cliff Lee >>>>>>>> Werth or Crawford

  • Craig

    Hate to say this but Pettitte is kinda starting to annoy me… Wish he would make up his mind or at least tell Cash where hes leaning so we can make other moves nessicary to put together a rotation

    • Luis Sojo the Pasta Eating Machine

      The word is he’s told Cash that he’s leaning towards retiring. Cash has said it himself. Maybe this is why the Yanks were willing to go 7.

    • TopChuckie

      I thought the report was he called Cash yesterday to make sure his indecision wasn’t hurting the Yanks and Cash said, paraphrasing, “everything is fine, take your time”. I admire that and I really think it means he is eventually coming back. Cash also said regardless of what else the Yanks do, if Andy wants to come back, going to Hal for some more money for Pettitte will not be a problem.

    • TopChuckie

      Cash quotes on Pettitte yesterday:

      “If I had to bet at some point, I think he’ll play,” Cashman said. “But he’s telling me right now he’s leaning the other way. He just doesn’t want to hold us up.”

      “I never have a problem knocking on Hal’s door and asking for more money,” Cashman said. “I have a problem sometimes with Hal saying yes. I know my title is general manager, but I consider myself the director of spending for the New York Yankees. I don’t make it. I spend it.”

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      Wouldn’t it be more annoying if he were hedging between retiring and considering other teams as a free agent. I have no problem with that Pettitte is doing, it could be worse. A ton of other free agents haven’t signed anywhere yet, Pettitte is a free agent who luckily is deciding between retiring or the Yankees, rather than deciding between 10-12 teams if he put himself out there.

    • Johnny

      Agreed, didn’t Pettitte say he wouldn’t drag this process out.

    • rek4gehrig

      Andy has to keep mum until we sign Lee or else Yanks will be offering Lee 10/240

  • LunaticFringe

    The seventh year is the price the Yankees are willing to pay to avoid being put in a position where they HAVE to trade Montero for a less than elite [Halladay/Lee] caliber pitcher. If they fan on Lee, I think Montero’s gone. I also suspect that Lee will be a better pitcher at 40 than Burnett will be in any year of his present contract.

    • pat

      Gotta rob Peter to pay Paul

      • Klemy

        Peter is not going to be happy with this. Why does no one ever rob Paul?!?

    • Craig

      Even if they land lee and they think andy is leaning towards retirement id like them to trade jesus+ for grenkie… CC/Lee/Grenkie/Hughes/Burnett HAS to be the best rotation ive seen in LONG time

  • vin

    Does anyone else think that maybe all the “we won’t go to 7 years” talk was a, ya know, negotiating strategy? When it comes to a guy the Yankees have coveted, like Cliff Lee, when Cashman says “we will not add a 7th year,” he really means, “we will not add a 7th year unless we have to.”

    I highly doubt the RS signing Crawford has anything to do with this extra year. I’m willing to bet it was a wildcard that Cashman has been keeping in his back pocket, should he need it. And now he feels like he needs it because other teams may actually be offering that extra year.

    • mbonzo

      Of course it was. Cashman is a smarter man than we give him credit for.

      • vin

        It just drives me crazy when people act like Cashman is operating like a chicken with its head cut off. The guy has a plan, and he’s very good at what he does.

        I also love how everyone deems 6 years to be perfectly acceptable, while 7 is WAY too much. At the outset, if Cash had said, “we will not go to 8 years,” then I’m sure everyone will be acting as though a 7 year deal is just as reasonable as a 6 year deal.

        Fact is, every FA pitching contract over 1 year in length is risky. But that’s the nature of the beast. People need to have faith in Cashman.

        • mbonzo

          He’s done well especially signing pitchers late into their careers. There were only a hanful of pitchers over 38 that had what I’d consider bad seasons. Don’t remember the exact numbers but I think there were about 3 bad and 10 good. 1 from Mussina, Brown, and Johnson (who went 17-11 in his bad year). Again, I don’t remember exact numbers but Yanks had about an 80% success rate from 38+ pitchers in the last 10 years.

  • RuleroftheBone86

    Who the hell are we bidding against? Has the elf/ninja lost his edge after one horric signing (Crawford deal has made the Cubs Soriano deal look smart at this point)? Brian don not be scared, stand tall and strong- stick to six years and 140, no one will exceed those figures.

    If we get Lee, we easily jump ahead of the Red Sox, significantly, again. Yet, these sudden developments on a 7th year, is utterly ridiculous.

    Most sources say this mysterious seven year offer team was the Red Sox in what now is meaningless point. I simply can’t belive it was the Rangers, the only legitmate threat, but what all this really means is this: Lee doesn’t want to sign with the Yankees in basic principle.

    I believe if we offered him an equal contract with the one made by Ryan he would definitely choose the reigning AL champs over us. Heck, even if we had a slightly higher offer
    (let’s say 6yrs/140 mil vs 6yrs/120 mil) he wouldn’t sign with us. In the end, these developments concern simply because it reveals Cliff will only come here for the utmost money not to pitch for the Yankees, his buddy and peer CC and propspect of going for WS every year.

    Do we really want that? In a way I somehow feel like the Nats in having to overpay/guarantee someone to entice their services…aren’t we better than that?

    In conclusion, I am confident in proclaiming 6years to be the max and offer as much of a superior salary increase, that the Steinbrenners will allow, to win over Cliff. If he demands one more year to be the difference i.e. six over five or seven over six then I say nay on getting him. Like some have said before, we’re the Yankees not the effing Mets for Mo’s sake!! We will not be blackmailed into poisioning our financial situation for the foreseeable future for anyone. Never forget the dreaded A-Rod deal Brian Cashman- in this rare case a trade might be a better option.

    Who here agrees its time to truely start thinking about trading for Josh Johnson or Zack Grienke? For the latter pitcher, I truely think our farm is rich enough not to sacrifice Montero. 2 or all 3 of the Killer B’s, Laird and Romine should be enough for Grienke in this age where Casey Kelly is highly thought of to gardner Adrian Gonzalez.

    • Fair Weather Freddy

      forget Josh Johnson. He is n’t going anywhere. Marlins just signed him to a reasonable long term deal last year. Grienke is gonna cost a ton, especially once Lee goes off the market

      • RuleroftheBone86

        What about the Yankees standing firm at six? Is there really a team to challenge the Yankees’ original offer?

        Sorry, but I’m inclined to believe he is terrified and has lost his perspective on the situation. The Yankees shouldn’t be blackmailed into bidding against themselves.

        Seriously, has someone actually come up with a seventh year? Can’t believe its the financial prudish Angels or Teo’s somewhat spent Saux, so I think we are at the mercy of his idiotic agent. Stand firm at six and outbid everyone. If we give up the seventh, we lose the war… of financial sensiblity and freedom!!

  • http://bronxbombersreport.com CraigMW

    The Yankees need to get Cliff Lee. Period, end of story. There will be a lot of long faces in the Bronx if Cash doesn’t get Lee in pinstripes.

    • RuleroftheBone86

      And I’ll bet those faces Yankee Universe will make in five years when you witnessed how cash-strapped and binded this team will be more frightening than you can imagine.
      Semicolon, the neverending story ;o/

      • CS Yankee

        Let’s review the math a little…

        45,000 +/- @ 81 home games, paying $150 +/- avg equates to just under 550M$ per year. Add in laundry sales, signage, endorsements, other events and a phat network along with a new park with little debt.

        They Yankees have taken extreme heat for having the only 200+M$ payroll in baseball for at least the last six years. Once the 160M$ “poor” BoSox start spending, the Yankees will respond.

        250M$ per year is not far for the NYY, if the market dictates that it needs to spend that to keep pace with the lesser teams. Those lesser teams are every other team in the East, the AL, MLB and the world.

  • dan genovese

    300 million or so for two players which team is the evil empire now!

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      300 million and top prospects.

      • RuleroftheBone86

        Whose the the evil empire?

        Well, us of course. Doesn’t evil empire does translate for greatest of all time in the “Loser-ese” dialect? Yes we are evil like America is the Great S#@^^#. Neither is the truth except in the minds of radicals and bums.

  • Yank the Frank

    CC’s wife needs to talk to Lee’s wife and assure her living in NY is bliss, minimal spitting. It’s up to the wives to get this done.

  • JerseyDutch

    If we sign him, I’m going to be standing on my desk with tears streaming down my face, shouting, “Oh Phifer, my Phifer!”

  • Johnny

    With Boston signing Crawford, they took away the Angels prime off season target. They could become very big players for Lee. That is something Cash has to strongly consider.

    • AndrewYF

      The Angels are never big players for any major free agent – their GM and owner are far too cheap. Like bexy said in a previous thread, the Angels’ offer to their ‘top priority’ Carl Crawford was $104M.

      • Johnny

        True

      • RuleroftheBone86

        IETC

        +33

        Hell, Yes!!!!

        I agree, indubitably.

        The Angels will never ever outspend us. Don’t buy the bluff, Brian. They have never competed against us here and do you really Arte Moreno is going to the mat for an eventual 39 year old pitcher at around 25 mill?!?

        We won’t be fooled again!

        • boogie down

          YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

  • Tom

    I want Cliff Lee but like many of you I don’t like the 7 years. CC/Lee as a 1/2 punch is the best in baseball. Add Pettite, Hughes, and AJ and you have a very strong rotation.

    I was hoping the Yankees would aquire Zack Greinke and Carl Crawford this season.

    Either way I trust Cashman and we will have a great team. Let Go Yanks!

  • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

    Anybody who bothers to read this will just dismiss it (the polite word). But the NYY need to have a clause about Lee’s hunting. He falls out of a tree blind or gets his arm gnawed on, there goes the old ball game. Cash-mahoney better have Lloyds of London on speed dial.

  • peteypabs

    Didnt want to have to go to 7 to get Lee but if thats what it takes then so be it. Now trade Hughes and Montero+ for King Felix. Get Pettitte back in the fold and go with:

    CC
    Hernandez
    Lee
    Pettitte
    AJ

    • mbonzo

      Don’t think Cashman will be contacting Mariners too much with offers including Montero. Unless they come to NY and offer that stupid deal, I don’t think we’ll be seeing much business between the Mariners and the Yankees for a while.

    • Tampa Yankee
      • peteypabs

        more wishful thinking than anything but its nice to dream. if the mariners would accept it i would do it. if cashman can offer montero for lee then he should offer montero plus a combo of 2-3 other studs for felix.

        • mbonzo

          It would probably take Montero, Sanchez, Benuelos, Betances, Brackman, and Gardner to land him… I am serious.

          • mbonzo

            Knowing the Yankees they would send this offer to the Mariners and the Mariners would ask for Nunez too and the Yankees would hang up.

            • Klemy

              Not sure about Nunez, but Cervelli, they definitely hang up.

          • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

            Montero, Sanchez Cano, Benuelos Hughes, Betances, Brackman, and Gardner.

            Any deal that would land us Felix is a deal that is light years too expensive to take.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Your trade proposal sucks

  • Mike HC

    Everyone is overpaying this season, so Cliff Lee will be no different. Overpay for Cliff Lee, pull off a “I didn’t know that player was available” move and/or convince Pettitte to come back, and the Yanks have as good a chance as any to win it all. Plus, tons of prospects to pull off a mid season trade if a need becomes obvious.

  • nyyankfan7

    Anybody else worried if we sign Lee for 7 years and more money than CC that will cause CC to opt out and look for a bigger deal? I know I would if I was CC.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Yes in the sense that I could see him using the optout to renegotiate the end of his deal to get some more, but I believe him when he says he has no interest in leaving.

    • JerseyDutch

      CC keeps claiming that he won’t opt out but you never know. I think he must be tempted.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
        • JerseyDutch

          Isn’t it always?

          • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

            Yup. That’s why I don’t really believe CC when he says he won’t opt out.

  • Rod

    The Crawford signing is unimpressive. Meh OBP fast guy whose defense is neutralized by the Monstah. Lee will be good for a long time. A control guy who pitches smart ages well.

  • mbonzo

    This is what I think happened.
    Cliff Lee is aware of the taxes in NY and takes this into account.
    Red Sox and Angels offer Lee 7 years with low amounts per year.
    Rangers offer 5 years around $23.5 per
    Yankees offer 6 years around $23.5 per
    Rangers counter with 6 years $23m per
    Red Sox drop out with Crawford, Angels get more serious
    Yankees counter with 7 years $23m per

    As long as the Yankees offer more years to Lee, they are the better option for him regardless of taxes.

    • RuleroftheBone86

      I guess it probable, but it bothers me greatly that we have a superior offer than anyone to convince anyone to come to the Bronx. Are we not offering him a more than fair price at 6yr/140?

      We’re not the effin Orioles, the fact the Yanks want you should be enough if we offer an equal contract against the competition.Also, I contend to believe the Angels at the moment of truth will not come up with a seventh year.

  • AndrewYF

    Reading reports that Lee simply wants to go to Texas, but can’t leave money on the table, so that’s why Texas is going out to meet with Lee to see if there is anything they can do to get Lee to come to them.

    If I were a betting man, I’d bet that Nolan Ryan hammers something out to Lee’s liking. Ryan hates to lose.

  • Not Tank the Frank

    Why not offer him eight years just for the fuck of it? If you’re a free agent, and the Yankees want you, you’ll get anything and everything you ask for. Very unimpressed by Cashman right now.

  • Januz

    I would actually say no to Lee. They are not beating Boston even with Lee (Keep in mind, they will also have a full season of Pedroia & Yukolis). Boston is better at every position except closer, SS, CF and maybe 3rd. Yes that includes 2nd: I am taking Pedroia over Cano (And I can’t stand Pedroia). The biggest difference is the starting pitching with Buchholz & Lester (Who are probably the 2nd & 3rd best starters in the AL (Only Hernandez is better)). The one advantage the Yankees have is the depth in the farm system (Particularly starting pitching), which over the next five years will manifest itself. They don’t need to be locked into a Burnett-type contract with Lee in 2014 and beyond. Better to take the lumps now, get ugly contracts (Posada, Igawa, etc) off the books, and have the future built around the “Killer “B’s”, Heathcott, DePaula, Stoneburner, Romine, Sanchez & of course, Montero.

    • Ray the Anti-Handle

      Did you seriously just call Buchholz the 2nd best starter in the AL?

      • Januz

        Lester is 2nd followed by Buchholz, CC, then Price.

        • Ray the Anti-Handle

          Insignificant distinction. It’s still batshit insane.

        • Not Tank the Frank

          Well yeah that makes sense.

        • FIPster Doofus

          Quit while you’re … way behind.

      • RuleroftheBone86

        How the hell is Robinson Cano not better than Bilbo Pedoria?
        Please, enlighten us- I need a good laugh.

        And furthermore, do you realize who Cartsen Charles Sabbathia is? He’s one of the best pitchers in the game and just a TAD better than Buckholtz, just my, and every baseball expert’s, opinion.

        Oh, and how is JD Drew better than Swisher?

        Also, how about that bullpen advantage doesn’t it matter?

        And one more thing, how the hell is getting Cliff Lee not enough of a difference maker against the BoSox? How? Two of the best big game pitchers in the rotation is not a significant edge,Januz?

        Care to explain? Or should we just shudder at the thought of Facing such viable threats like Beckett, Lackey, Wakefield and Dice-BB? Hmm, sorry still don’t see four aces, hell I barely see two good pitchers out of that bunch. Face it, all they have is Lester and maybe, Buckholtz (who is arguably inferior to Hughes).

        On the other hand, a rotation of two aces, Andy and Hughes is practically unmatched by anyone let alone the BoSox.

        • Not Tank the Frank

          While I agree with you and agree that Januz gives way to much credit to the Red Sox; you’re giving too much credit to the Yankees rotation.

          At this point in their careers:

          Lester > Sabathia
          Buchholz > Hughes
          Beckett > Burnett

          These are only slight advantages in some cases, and some could go the other way at any point b/c these are all VERY talented pitchers, but this is the truth IMO.

          • RuleroftherBone86

            I appreciate the opinion but I’m curious to hear why in the immediate future (next 2-3 years)Lester will be better than CC? In recent times, the last two, CC has had a slight, but still a significent, advantage over him.

            Personally I think you underrate CC because his value goes way beyond even the most advanced statistic. His leadership and prescence has transformed and carried this ballclub to tremendous success. Lester only until last year has ever had the real pressure of being their number one, for Sabbathia the target has always been on him since the moment he signed. Few pitchers can compete with CC’s heart and Lester comes very close.

            On Hughes vs Buckholtz, I think that is a tossup and the advanced stats says Buckholtz was not nearly as good as his basic stats reveal. Going foward, I really think each fanbase can believe each of their guys will be better because of how evenly matched they are. So, as a Yank fan my choice is Phil.

            Finally, Burnett v.s Beckett, I can’t say I wouldn’t take Beckett over Burnett mostly but the one exception would be in a head to head matchup. I hope tank not Frank understands that Beckett has frighteningly bad numbers against the Yanks since he arrived in Boston and they have only gotten worse over time. Thus, Beckett, while superior against the rest of the league, is in my opinion inferior or at the very best equal to our 4th or 5th pitcher.

    • Xstar7

      There’s no way in hell Pedroia is better than Cano. Cano is better in almost every way. It’s close though I’ll give you that.

      • Rob in CT

        They’re pretty much even. I’ll take Cano’s bat & Pedroia’s defense. Both are great players. That’s a push.

        Lester is that good. Buchholz isn’t. He is good, mind you, but he’s not THAT good. Beckett will be better. Lackey is probably going to do basically what he did last year. Dice-K is a total wildcard.

        Also: Igawa’s contract is not ugly. Dude makes $5MM/year. Sure, in AAA, but $5MM a year is freaking pocket change for the Yankees. Burnett, now that’s ugly.

        • FIPster Doofus

          I think you’re giving Dice-K too much credit to even call him a wild card. He’s just flat-out awful.

        • Januz

          I am certainly no fan of Burnett’s contract. However, Game 2 of the 2009 offsets quite a bit of it. However, guys like Giambi, Igawa, Pavano & a few others that did not help them win can only be regarded as failures to a much larger extent than Burnett

        • RuleroftheBone86

          Why will Beckett improve? Why does everyone keep furthering this weak opinion? Are we not mature enough to understand the real Beckett is not the pitcher he was in 2007? The truth he’s much closer to AJ Burnett than anyone dares to believe.

          And no matter if bouncebacks in any level- it is a proven scientific law that Josh Beckett will never ever intimidate the Yankees again. The guys numbers against us ever since he arrived in Boston are simply a joke and I adore our Batting practice sessions, er, I mean matchups against him every year. So, no Beckett’s satus is pointless cause he’s as viable threat against his chief opponent, the Yanks, as Burnett is to the Red Sox in fenway.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      So your suggestion is to…punt the season because there is no way they can beat Boston?

      • Januz

        Sometimes punting is not bad strategy. This is what Cashman did when he said no to Santana, and instead got CC & Tex the following year (Plus kept Hughes).
        What I expect, is to see Boston to be excellent in 2011 (And maybe 2012), but going forward, the Red Sox will feel very sorry about that Crawford contract (Most speed guys, not named Rickey Henderson, have their career fall apart real quick. Seeing Boston saddled with ugly contracts (Like Beckett’s is looking now), can only help the Yankees in the future.

        • Not Tank the Frank

          The Yankees have more resources than any team in baseball and an embarrassment of talent both in the big leagues and in the minors. The Yankees don’t need to punt the season.

          Stop it.

        • FIPster Doofus

          The Yankees didn’t punt the 2008 season. They won 89 games despite missing Posada and Matsui for a combined 180 games, losing Wang in June and getting less than nothing from the Hughes/Kennedy duo. You really think the Yankees planned on running Ponson and Rasner out to the mound to start at all, let alone regularly (36 total starts)?

          As for giving up on the 2011 season, worst suggestion ever. New York won 95 games last season and is primed to sign one of the best pitchers in the sport. Knock off the ridiculousness.

    • Rob in CT

      Maybe. It depends on what the 2011/12 free agent class looks like. If it’s crappy, I think they gotta get Lee now.

      If there are some good FAs hitting the market next year, yeah you could use 2011 as a “bridge” year, shooting for the Wildcard while biding your time to get better & younger.

      Remember, if 1 of the “killer bees” ends up being a good ML pitcher, the Yankees will have done well. The attrition/failure rate on young pitching is ridiculous.

    • Not Tank the Frank

      Yeah they replaced Beltre and VMart with Gonzalez and added a career 107 OPS+ player for $20MM. Might as well give up now. I mean, of course they’ll get a full season from Youkilis, Pedroia, hell ALL their players!! Because their team has proven how durable and healthy they are.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      No words for this one.

  • Jorge

    These comments are just painful. You should need to pass a basic civic literacy test to comment on Yankee 2010 hot stove threads.

    #teadpartie’d, #Tancredo’d

    While I maintain that we can win #28 without Cliff Lee and without trading Jesus Montero for some Grienke/Felix test tube baby, I’m honestly not afraid of adding on years as long as our rich old men of 2015 are a bit staggered. Give him eight years, for all I care, as long as he’s the only old man on the pitching staff we have to find a spot for those last two years.

    • Mike HC

      I’m with you here. The 7th year is really not a big deal. And trading Montero would be an awful idea at his point.

      • Not Tank the Frank

        Yup. At this point just stockpile the riches. Sign only the best free agents on the market (i.e. not Crawford, Carl; Werth, Jayson) and keep your top prospect to watch him mash over the next few years.

      • Mike

        I agree. Until his defense improves, we won’t get maximum value by trading him. Can’t use him at DH with Posada blocking the way either.

        • Not Tank the Frank

          I would absolutely love it if the Yankees would learn him some 1B skillzzz. The more positions the Yankees showcase him at the better.

      • JerseyDutch

        Agreed. Trading Jesus would be very disappointing. I really want to see how that guy develops.

  • Mike

    This was Cashman’s plan all along. Force Theo to pay 20 million for a 35 year old Crawford at the end of his deal. Now he can grab back the spotlight by paying a 39 year old Cliff Lee 20+ million at the end of his deal. Love it.

  • Monteroisdinero

    6 years as a starter, 7th as a lefty out of the pen at 39.

    Get it done!

    • Not Tank the Frank

      This is why I’m “pro steroids.” If we could pump him full of HGH in his old age we wouldn’t even have to worry about it. I say let these players put as much horse steroids as they want in themselves while we sit back and watch the fun happen.

      • Mike HC

        This is essentially already happening.

        • Not Tank the Frank

          Nah… I’d rather see a bulked up A-Rod hitting 50 bombs at 36 than watch him clutch at his hip rounding the bases.

          HGH FTW.

          (I’m joking with all this BTW)

          • Mike HC

            I know you are joking, but I’m not. All of these professional athletes are pumped up with so much shit, legal and illegal. And we are just sitting back and enjoying.

  • Hughesus Christo

    I don’t really care because we are the MFY, but I do I want to bring up a question…

    Why do people keep talking about his profile projecting a “good” decline? When did we decide that certain kinds of pitchers decline better?

    • Not Tank the Frank

      The simplest answer is pitchers who display great command. Inevitably losing your velocity is countered by having command. Cliff Lee has impeccable command.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Confirmation bias based on seeing high velocity guys fall of a cliff and get lit up when they lose a tick or two on their fastball.

      I don’t know if there has actually been a real study of it. Would be interesting to see.

  • Jeremy

    Why in the blue hell do people keep saying they want Greinke? The guy had a nervous breakdown while playing in Kansas City, and you want to bring him to New York? Do you people even read what you write before posting it? If you cannot handle a small market like KC, you have no business coming to New York, you would be eaten alive.

    • FIPster Doofus

      People who are totally ignorant of Greinke’s condition always seem most willing to opine on it.

    • Hughesus Christo

      People hit a point on certain issue where defying conventional wisdom becomes a selling point rather than an irrelevant side matter. Proving stupid beat writers wrong on KC to NY with SAD is helping push this.

      See:

      Manny Ramirez
      Adam Dunn
      Vazquez Rd. 2
      Greinke

    • djh

      That was before he got serious help and came back and won a Cy Young. Greinke has said he would waive his no trade to go to a big market team so people should trust that he can handle it.

      Anxiety disorders are so common I believe they are quite a bit over 50%. The odds are the Yanks have plenty of players already that suffer from some sort of SAD.

      Anxiety is at it’s worst when you are thinking not doing, so if the thought of going to NY isn’t making Greinke say no then there is no reason to expect him to fail anymore then Cliff Lee or someone else.

  • Anthony Murillo

    I’ve been saying for a while that he’s not coming to New York and I’m sticking to it. I just don’t see it happening.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      So then what do the Yankees do to improve?

      • Jorge

        “Improving” can be done without getting the absolute best, most expensive pitcher on the market. The team has two solid starters, a question mark, and an enigma. They need to get to four solid starters, and enough to back up the enigma. At this point, I return to my day job and let the Yankees handle that.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Fair enough

        • The Big City of Dreams

          I guess the can go for some low risk high reward type pitchers

  • pete

    Mike Mussina was great at 39. I’m not really that concerned about signing pitchers with incredible command and pitchability who are currently among the top five pitchers in the world to long-term contracts.

  • hogsmog
    • The Big City of Dreams

      Right on cue

    • ItsATarp

      i didn’t know the rangers were prepared to give jeter 6 years 130 + mil

  • burbankbogey

    I think today is the day. If Nolan leaves without a deal then I think we get him. I also assume Cash will get the final chance to beat the Rangers offer. Whoever blinks….

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