Yanks offer Lee variety of deals

Winter Meetings Day Four Chat
Yanks gamble on two in Rule 5 Draft

It appears that the Yankees have gotten creative in their pursuit of Cliff Lee. Jon Heyman reported this morning that the Yankees offered Lee a seventh year, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. Joel Sherman has the full breakdown of what the Yankees are offering their No. 1 off-season target:

The Yankee offers work on a scale in which the shorter the term offered the higher the annual average value. It is believed the bids work something like this: five years for $125 million, six years for $144 million and seven years for $161 million or $25 million a year, $24 million a year and $23 million a year.

Sherman goes on to say that these aren’t final offers, but rather starting points for negotiations. He brings up the possibility of Lee choosing the 5/125 deal, but working out one or two player options. Whatever the case, it appears that the Yankees are being as flexible as possible in order to accommodate Lee.

The Rangers are currently heading to Arkansas to make their final stand for Lee. I’m not sure they’ll match any of these offers, though. There’s a chance Lee could choose the comfortability of Texas over New York, but it’s tough to count on that. The Yankees have made it clear that they will do what it takes. It’s hard to not feel optimistic about landing Lee at this point.

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Winter Meetings Day Four Chat
Yanks gamble on two in Rule 5 Draft
  • Yea I said it

    WTF does he want ?

    • MikeD

      The most money and years possible.

      • Chris

        The most money and years possible.

        The years are only important because more years generally means more money.

  • MikeD

    Are the Yankees planning to fly out and meet with Lee? George would be there.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Can we please have a general moratorium on ever speculating what George would have done?

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        This. A million times this. Every time I hear “If George were alive” I want to stab kittens.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          Well if George was alive he wouldn’t want you to stab kittens.

        • MikeD

          George would bring kittens. George would bring money. George would bring flowers. George would close the deal.

          • Beantown Bombers Fan

            George would sign Gary Sheffield instead of an in-prime Vladdy. Stop with the “George would…”

            • MikeD

              George is not happy with you.

            • ND Mike

              George would sign Sheffield today.

          • Klemy

            George would’ve stabbed the kittens with the sharpened ends of the flower stems until Lee took the money? This deal is confusing to me.

            • Yank the Frank

              George would blame his baseball people if the deal fell through. If the deal went through George would make his baseball people swear that this is all they need to win the World Seriers then hold them to it, then shit on the kittens.

          • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

            Like he did with Maddux and Bonds?

            • MikeD

              Every one above, take a take a deep breath. That’s what George would recommend before unleashing hell.

        • JerseyDutch

          George is getting upset.

          • ROBTEN

            George on life without Lee: “Whatever we ain’t got, that’s what you want. God a’mighty, if I was alone I could live so easy. I could go get a job an’ work, an no trouble. No mess at all, and when the end of the month come I could take my fifty bucks and go into town and get whatever I want”

            • king of fruitless hypotheticals

              Weren’t you the one that brought us Bronte earlier this week?

              This is from Mice and Men, no?

          • Phishin’

            George likes his chicken spicy

            • MikeD

              I was heading toward a Seinfeld reference, with George likes spicy chicken, and George is upset, but got sidetracked, and it seemed like everyone else was getting upset with my “George should…”, so I let it drop before the punchline.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  • LunaticFringe

    As far as choosing the ‘comfortability” of Texas over NY? Anything’s possible but the MLBPA will go batshit crazy if the PRIMO FA takes a lowball offer.

    • BklynJT

      Seriously, people are blowing this Texas location BS out of proportion. The guy was there for what??? 2 months of his whole career. I’m sure he’s been drooling to be a Yankee for longer than that.

      • jim p

        He’s lived next door in Arkansas his whole life, iirc.

        • BklynJT

          Yes, but that doesnt mean the Rangers would get a hometown discount. It’s not like he came up in their farm system. Its really tough to accept a contract that is 1yr and probably at least 25 mil less to play for a team that you have no loyalties to, just because its in a neighboring state to your home. Shit, take that 25 mil and buy yourself a nice new house on the east coast. Plenty of hunting in Pennsylvania and Upstate NY.

          • king of fruitless hypotheticals

            For the non-aviators out there, this breaks down pretty easily:

            When you make a bajillion dollars, private jets go REALLY fast and can take you to an airport so close to where you want to be, your relatives will just pick you up. Or, a limo. Or, a rental car. Or a rickshaw pulled by a million shaved kittens.

            That’s what comes with this type of money. There is no difference between Boston, LAA, NY, Miami as far as transportation time goes. And to be honest, depending on where in AR he wants to go, there may not be a whole heck of a lot of travel time difference from there either.

            Planes are FAST and small airports are convenient.

            • ShuutoHeat

              The thought of a rickshaw pulled by a million kittens is both cute and cruel. The rickshaw might move at a snail like pace or not move a all, but it would be the cutest rickshaw in the world.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          Little Rock is 339 miles from Arlington. That’s about the same distance from New York to Richmond, Virginia.

          ZOMG NEXT DOOR

      • reginald cesar

        let’s remember he almost was a yankee back in july remember this the bottom line he’s looking to be paid also to when rings what team other than the yankee committe to doing this each and every year maybe the redsox let’s also remember they could of have arod back in 04 but they re did his deal and the union rejected that also in 08 they had texiera but refuse to go up from 170 to 180 million hence yankees came in & got him yes they did there thing with getting gonzalez & crawford all they did was replace them from beltre & martinez so now they are the team only way they become the team to bet is if the yankees don’t get lee also keep an eye out for the yankees pulling a a boston on boston by getting greinke & lee greinke has let it be known he wants rings also wants to go to a team that make the playoffs on the regular

    • Klemy

      I always wonder just how much the player’s association’s opinion actually matters in negotiations like this. To me, it seems overblown.

  • Joltin’ Joe

    To play basball in exchange for money

  • Joltin’ Joe

    sp baseball

  • Chris

    I wonder if Lee would want a deal like Sabathia’s with an opt out after 3 or 4 years.

    • Klemy

      Interesting thought, but at 32 I think he’d be safer with the guaranteed years, right?

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        It’s a player opt out though. Every player would want one, though I don’t know if he’d demand it.

        • radnom

          Yeah but in Lee’s case its probably not worth it to him. In a negotiation everything you get, you have to give a little. I would imagine he is going to go all out for money/years and not worry about having another chance at free agency at 35/36.

          • jayd808

            The TX angle always gets me, too. Who the hay would want to play in such heat? Seriously, 110 in the summers there, running hell-bent from 1st to 3rd can’t be fun. Long innings for a pitcher must be a near death experience. I don’t think you get that in Arkansas.

            Then again NY is dangerous in April with the occasional cold, sit down on the bench during a long inning and then go pull a hammy. The Octobers are beautiful though. And Jesus, you’re playing for the Yankees.

            On another note, I can’t believe Crawford is playing for Boston. What self-respecting black man would do such a thing? I used to tell all my liberal Boston friends “Oh, he’s black. He’s not going to play in BOSTON, for godsake.” It was such a powerful line, tore them up between liberal guilt and Sawks Nationhood.

            Does Pettite come along when Cliff signs? God, that is one helluva starting fivesome. We need a Kerry Wood figure back. Who is that BTW? KWood is too breakable for my taste.

            jayd

  • blur72

    why do you guys think granderson and swisher will be good next year? they won’t. granderson wasn’t even good this year. i can’t see them as justification for not signing crawford, trading one of granderson and swisher for a pitcher (since they’re SO GREAT), and then signing lee with the cleared up salary. then you have an improved outfield, and if pettitte comes back 3 quality starters in back of CC. it killed me to watch granderson at the plate. he had one full month where he batted over .266 – and that was .278 in september. majority of months between .200 and .230. obp constantly below .300. he sucked last year too, so i really don’t know why you’re expecting his magical return to form. his above-average defensive metrics mean nothing to me when you can sign comparable defensive utility outfielders for $3m. maybe jeter can hit .340 and teixeira won’t be batting .190 in july too.

    i’ll never get the love affair with granderson. every yankee fan i irl know despises his performance… i mean, all you have to do is watch every game and look at his stats. is it because he has a nice smile and he an ambassador to the game? i was hoping so much they would sign crawford and trade his useless a$$. i’d even prefer f*cking JD Drew to him

    • Klemy

      “why do you guys think granderson and swisher will be good next year? they won’t.”

      Turn that around and explain why they won’t. It’s opinion as much for you as it is for anyone expecting them to have a good season.

      “every yankee fan i irl know despises his performance…”

      People on this blog are not in real life? I was disappointed with his season as a whole, but September gave me reason to believe he’s trending back to better numbers. Any debating that is opinion on either side.

      • blur72

        yeah hitting .278 in september is REALLY GREAT. what a great sign to assume he’ll do well! this guy is Melky with more power, plain and simple.

        and since your attention span is too small to pay attention, I used both OBP and AVG in this. now please, offer me any offensive category that shows Granderson as more than an average player. it’s not even worth debating between who has more value, him or Crawford. Crawford will win games for Boston. Granderson loses them for the Yankees. look up to see how many wins/losses each contribute. you’ll be surprised!

        imagine an outfield of Gardner, Austin Jackson, and Crawford. beautiful! it would have been possible if not for Cashman’s idiotic moves.

        • steve (different one)

          Son, fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

        • Clay Bellinger

          Granderson had 3.6 WAR, solid, but not spectacular. Still he generated wins so your statement that he “loses” games for the Yankees is nothing short of idiotic. No one argues that he’s a better player than Crawford, but he’s also payed significantly less. As it is now, the Yanks have a nice and relatively cost-effcient OF that allows them to focus their resources on other things, like Cliff.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          Crawford will win games for Boston. Granderson loses them for the Yankees. look up to see how many wins/losses each contribute.

          Please show me the place where Granderson was worth negative WAR.

          imagine an outfield of Gardner, Austin Jackson, and Crawford. beautiful! it would have been possible if not for Cashman’s idiotic moves.

          It would also hit about … 25 home runs. Total. And 15+ of those would be Crawford’s.

          Gardner, AJax, and Crawford are all by themselves good to very good players (Crawford’s clearly a level up from Gardy and AJax). But an OF of Gardner/AJax/Crawford together just doesn’t have enough power, especially not for the Yankees. Swisher would probably outhomer that OF by himself, to be honest.

        • ROBTEN

          My new, shiny toy is no longer new.

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      If you use batting average to explain why you think Granderson sucks, this argument does not deserve my time.

      • blur72

        not just batting average. OBP and slugging, too. what other offensive statistics do you want?

        • MikeD

          Swisher’s OPS+ in four of the last five years has ranged from 122-130. Carl Crawford for his career is a 107. By comparison, last year Granderson was 109, and that’s with his injury and slow start. He (Crawford) is in his peak now, which means he might give a 115-120, but he’ll have to show increased power. Unfortunatelym his hitting style doesn’t lend itself to power, but he can probably be a Damon-like hitter, one year hitting 10 HRs, next year hitting 19, then back to 12. HRs are not part of his game. I’d like to have him, but 20-million per for that type of production is excessive.

          Granderson had a better year last year than Jackson. I guess you wanted to have nine HRs from your left and CFers last year, while watching Jackson strike out a league-leading 170 times for all that non-power?

          A Crawford, Jackson, Gardner OF would be great defensively (although you were focused on offense, so find it interesting you’re going down this path), but all three might hit a combined 17 HRs. Not happening.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      You get a post of the day sticker.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        Clearly you haven’t read the earlier threads.

        • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

          I’m not sure if I want to…

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals

      Why do I think Granderson and Swisher will be good next year?

      Cause off-topic, that’s why.

  • burbankbogey

    I think if Ryan leaves today without a deal then the Yankees will get him!

  • MikeD

    Yankees lost two players in the Rule 5, but also picked up two pitchers. Interesting, since they must think the two coming in have more potential than the two heading out. That, or they plan to trade them.

    We lost:

    1) George Kontos, RHP, who went to the Padres. Kontos turns 26 mid-season.

    2) Lance Pendleton, RHP, was picked by the Astros. Perhaps they liked his Rice University connection. Believe he pitched in AA last season.

    The two pitchers the Yankees picked up are:

    Robert Fish, LHP, taken from the Angels. He’s a 23-year-old lefty with a mid-90s fastball who won’t turn 23 until January. He pitched in A and AA last year. My guess is they’ll give him a look as a lefty-in-the-pen option, so maybe he just might have a chance to stick.

    Daniel Turpen, RHP, comes from the Red Sox. Since he’s a righty, be surprised if he isn’t returned to the Sox, unless they plan to trade him to some team who can hold him.

    I’m guessing Mike will have more about these two today.

    • Sweet Dick Willie
      • MikeD

        Sweet Jesus. Heading for the cliff.

    • steve (different one)

      The yanks saw Fish and Angels and they thought they were taking Mike Trout

  • Lisa

    Looks like Nolan’s Ryan’s approach to this isn’t working. I guess Ryan wanted Lee to name his price and apparently Lee’s agent is not working along those lines. Not saying this means the Yankees will get Lee but now it will force Ryan to make an offer.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/dall.....id=5902678

    “We have no interest in participating in the unconventional negotiating style the club has requested,” Braunecker told ESPN.com early Thursday morning. “For the player to submit an offer to the club … that’s not the way the process works.”

    • jim p

      Heh. When any potential employer told me what I want, I knew right away they were hoping I’d say something lower than they were willing to go. Prime athletes don’t have to do that.

      • AndrewYF

        Never give out your expected salary, or even a range, to an employer. They should know exactly how much they’re willing to pay you. If they insist, be sure to name a figure that’s at least 50% higher than what you expect.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals

      why not just go to them with the Yankees best offer and say ‘we need another $X in order not to take this offer by 5 pm’???

    • Eric Young

      There’s no denying that Boston has had an insanely successful week, so having Ryan look like he’s falling out of this thing is very welcome news. I would expect Lee to find the idea of being part of what is shaping up to be a greatly re-energized NYY-Bosox rivalry very exciting.

      Wish we’d give Rafael Soriano whatever it takes to be our 8th innning guy and Mo’s heir-apparent. We absolutely must have a lights-out guy in that role, and the insurance against a sudden decline in Mo (Hoffman went down awfully fast) would be wise to have.

      • Monteroisdinero

        Would be all over Soriano if we don’t get Lee. We win nothing without Mo all these years.

        • Eric Young

          What I’m suggesting is that we should be all over him now, regardless of the decisions of Lee or Pettitte.

          • Clay Bellinger

            There’s just about no chance. The guy’s a stud closer. He should get a closer gig on a team that pays him closer dollars. Why be anyones set-up man for less?

            • Monteroisdinero

              Canali?

            • Eric Young

              I’m not suggesting less money…the guy deserves closer $$$ and that’s what we should pay him.

              Personally, I’ve just never been a fan of the 9th-inning closer as the be-all and end-all. Games are just as likely to be lost in the 7th and the 8th (*cough*cough*ALCS) while our best reliever sits in the bullpen.

          • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig

            I know draft picks are long-term projects if not lottery tickets, but they are still important for the Yankees. Given the circumstances – RP with a bad injury history, loaded draft class (from what I hear) and the presumed loss of first a round pick – do we really want them just giving them up?

            • Eric Young

              …presumed loss of first a round pick …
              That’s the biggest question mark for me, but we’ve got an extremely limited amount of opportunity left with Jeet, A-Rod, Pettitte, Mo (and Lee, possibly, before his VORP goes to 1 or 2). Considering the money invested before the first two on that list begin just weighing us down, and the second two are gone entirely, I think we need to win this year and next – and that means filling the 8th inning hole. Would we have even made it to the postseason last year if Wood hadn’t been a miracle-worker in the second half?

        • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

          we win nothing? Eh, I’ll give you that the wp% would probably be a bit lower, but nothing drastic. We might still have won five championships, and hey maybe even 2001 O.O

  • Jimmy McNulty

    The Rangers are willing to offer any perk that Cliff Lee wants, if I were Cliff these would be the two perks I’d aks for:

    http://coedmagazine.files.word.....#038;h=400

    (NSFW, no nudity, but I wouldn’t liook at work).

    At any rate, I just want him signed at this point.

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      You consider that NSFW? Do you work in a church?

      • MikeD

        Yeah, really. My boss emails we worse stuff!

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          /Paladino’d

          • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig

            Nevermind the NSFW, is that really the best you could do as far as a perk?

  • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    Cliff Lee will sign on Tuesday. And it will be the best birthday ever.

    Book it.

    • radnom

      I thought he was supposed to decide over the weekend?

      Although I guess it could still be made ‘official’ on your birthday.

  • toad

    It makes a lot more sense to think of this as $25M/yr for the first five years, $19M for the sixth, and $17M for the seventh than in terms of annual average.

  • Johnny

    Even with Lee, the Yankees will need another starter. Does Cashman have something up his sleeve?

    • Eric Young

      With Lee, and even without Pettite, don’t you think that we can be competitive for three months? I see that kind of a move being made around the trade deadline. Better pitchers will be available and we’ll also have a much better sense as to what’s working and what isn’t.

    • Clay Bellinger

      Well we don’t know that yet. Maybe Pettitte returns one more time.

    • http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com mikebk

      Sherman is saying that if the Yanks have Lee Andy is more likely to come back cause we have a shot at a ring.

      • Xstar7

        If the Yankees don’t get Lee, Pettite should come back anyway because we’ll need him more than ever and he deserves a proper send-off.

        • Mike HC

          Personally, I am not a fan of the farewell tours. Just play, and retire at the end of whatever season you decide to retire. Plus, we have seen so many athletes change their minds and come back year after year anyway.

          • Xstar7

            Well we know if he does come back it will be the last time. And Pettite still has some game left in him unlike say Brett Favre.

            • Mike HC

              Why do you know it will be his last time? Even if he does say it, I wouldn’t even necessarily 100% believe him, and he should wait until the season is over to make any definitive statements anyway.

              • Xstar7

                Andy Pettite announced if he came back It would be his last time. And I’m going to take his word for it.

      • Eric Young

        I’m not disagreeing with Sherman’s theory but it’s just that – Sherman’s theory. He would have said he got that from Pettitte or from anyone someone that spoke with Pettitte if he had.

        I can easily see Pettitte sitting out the first 60 days of the season, though, á la Clemens. That would put us in a fairly good position heading towards the trade deadline and Pettitte could be confident he’d be strong through October.

        • MikeD

          Exactly. No way he knows that since he no one knows for sure if Andy is retiring or coming back. No way Sherman then knows what scenario it would take for Andy to return.

      • Clay Bellinger

        I’m sure that’s just Sherman’s take on it. He throws his opinion out there like crazy. What if Lee goes elsewhere? Doesn’t that make the Yanks a little more desperate and push them to offer AP more money?

        • Eric Young

          I think so, yes. I’m sure there’s a price at which Andy gets off the proverbial pot.

          And I continue to think we need to get seriously in the mix for Rafael Soriano.

          • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

            There’s zero incentive for Soriano come here.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

            I don’t think Soriano’s going to want to come here unless we give him ridiculous money (we’re already paying Mariano ridiculous money, no thanks to doing that to the 8th inning guy too). Barring catastrophe he’s not closing anyway.

          • Mike HC

            Definitely do not want to sign Soriano. This is not the last year the Yanks will be in existence. Lets save some money for the big time free agents in the next couple of the years while the Sox have little flexibility.

          • Eric Young

            Here’s next year’s class of FA relievers, per Cot’s (*=current contract includes 2012 option):

            Danys Baez PHI / Matt Belisle COL / Heath Bell SD / Rafael Betancourt COL / Jonathan Broxton LAD / Brian Bruney WAS / Tim Byrdak HOU / Shawn Camp TOR / Matt Capps MIN / Todd Coffey MIL / Clay Condrey MIN / Francisco Cordero CIN * / Lance Cormier TB / Ryan Franklin STL / Mike Gonzalez BAL / John Grabow CHC / LaTroy Hawkins MIL / Bobby Jenks CWS / Brad Lidge PHI * / Scott Linebrink CWS / Javier Lopez PIT / Ryan Madson PHI / Damaso Marte NYY * / Sergio Mitre NYY / Joe Nathan MIN * / Jonathan Papelbon BOS / Chris Ray TEX / Francisco Rodriguez NYM * / Takashi Saito ATL / George Sherrill LAD / Carlos Silva CHC * / Jose Valverde DET / Tyler Walker WAS / Michael Wuertz OAK / Joel Zumaya DET

            We can have all our eggs in Mo’s basket this year and next, or pick from one of them. Just a concern going forward.

  • Bulldozer

    Does anyone still think Braunecker is an idiot?

  • Xstar7

    Basically they just replaced the two bats they lost. And Ortiz isn’t going to be as good next year as he was last year. He was on the decline coming into last season and even though he had a good year it was probably just a fluke. And their rotation still has problems.

  • Jd

    “comfortability” … Think you found the idiot

  • Johnny

    Buster Olney just reported that Yankees are not confident about getting Lee. If this true, it could be tough hanging with the Red Sox. Even with Lee I think the Sox would be favored.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      I was in the middle of responding to this when the site went dead and dammit I am going to get my words in!!!!!

      I’ve heard tons of reports that the Rangers are not at all confident in keeping him, too. Also, Boston’s always favored – they were in 2009 and 2010. Didn’t do them much good.