Jan
19

Here’s Soriano

By

He’ll wear jersey No. 29, which means Frankie Cervelli has to find a new number. Here’s a history of No. 29.

Categories : Hot Stove League

61 Comments»

  1. RR says:

    Uni number?

  2. Rey22 says:

    He looks happy to be there

    • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan says:

      lol :p

    • Mister Delaware says:

      Seriously. Edgar Renteria would make fun of his downtrodden look.

    • Mickey Scheister says:

      Dude should smile more, I mean he did just sign a ridiculously player friendly, record setting set-up man contract.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        He’s a closer, not a set-up man.

        • jsbrendog (returns) says:

          yeah not on this team he isn’t. so no, he is a setup man being paid like a closer

          • Mister Delaware says:

            He’s a top reliever being paid like a top reliever.

            • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

              And we all know all top relievers are worth it. Mo doesn’t count for obvious reasons.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Exactly.

            • bpdelia says:

              thank you. He’s a top 10 ML RP being paid like a top 10 ML RP. What role the yankees plan to use him in is incidental to his performance to pay ratio. I think Ted and I pretty much line up on this one.
              The signing isn’t some season save, but he will help, the contract isn’t out of line with what elite relief pitchers should make and the contract isn’t a big enough albatross to prevent the yankees form making any and all other moves that they deem necessary.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Exactly. I don’t think this was a good value signing, and acknowledge the risks. What drives me crazy, though, is people like Mike and JobaWockeeZ building a strawman out of/ignoring the positives and acting as if there is no way this deal works out.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

      He looks like Juan Miranda in this picture.

      • vin says:

        I would say that’s racist… but you’re 99% right. Perhaps if Juan Miranda and Jose Contreras had a baby, it would look like Soriano.

  3. DH says:

    I think a very interesting note in the Soriano signing is his increased use of the cutter. Having worked for the Braves throughout his entire time spent with Atlanta and getting to watch him extensively the past season with Tampa, his slider has always been a pretty devastating out pitch. However, last season according to Fangraphs while still using the slider at about the same rate, he decided to use a cutter a lot more (15.5% in 2010 compared to 3.5% in 2009 compared to no data in 2008). I had seen this pitch in previous seasons but it was sometimes only noticeable to me from my live vantage point by the change in velo on the stadium gun. I am just interested in how he uses and develops that cutter with the everyday companionship of Mo. It seems like it could be a very valuable weapon and today in the press conference he discussed his friendship with Mo…so anyway, I just thought this was an interesting development and relevant topic.

  4. SamVa says:

    he looks a lot different since the a-rod trade.

  5. UncleArgyle says:

    Since the Yanks brass seemed determined to add a high powered setup man this offseason, I’m very pleased we got Soriano for cash and a pick rather than, say, Jokim Soria for Montero and Nunez. Welcome aboard Raffy!

  6. Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

    Frankie Cervelli will still be able to wear #29 in Scranton.

  7. RR says:

    Also, no facial hair already.

  8. Deadhorse25 says:

    Welcome Rafi

  9. Bryan L says:

    Diggin’ his pose there.

    Maybe we’ll get rid of Cervelli and won’t have a problem.

  10. jsbrendog (returns) says:

    good to see he is following in the footsteps of great yankees such as kei igawa and andy stankiewitcz

  11. Fair Weather Freddy says:

    Can we end it now with the whole ‘ridiculous contract’ complaints and the lost draft pick? Fact is, he is here and he makes the bullpen that much better. Lets get used to it and hope he stays healthy and that being around Mo every day makes him even better

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      +a bajillion

    • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

      Spending Andy Pettitte money on Soriano frankly is very ridiculous.

      And we have no diea if he makes the bullpen better as per the volatile nature of relievers.

      Farnsworth, Marte and CHOP showed us that. The elite releivers too arne’t worth doube digits in the millions. K-Rod, Papelbon, Nathan and Lidge are previous elite and look now.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Soriano joins that list.

      • Big Apple says:

        get your point, but Soriano is much better than Farnsy, marte and chop…combined.

        • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

          Soriano is on par with K-Rod and the like and they still fell off a cliff.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Uhhhhhh….. K-Rod had a bad 2009 season, but when you bounce back the next year it is not called falling off a cliff. It’s called an off-year. His save total went down, but his actual performance was fine in 2010.

            http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=P

            http://www.baseball-reference......fr03.shtml

            • Fair Weather Freddy says:

              Leave it to good ole JobaWockee to always take the optomistic approach.

            • bpdelia says:

              Ted he keeps putting that list of relievers up there as if it proves his point.

              K Rod? STILL an elite reliever who had a VERY slightly down year.

              Nathan? Basically the best and most consistent reliever in MLB (non Mo division) who had the OUTRAGEOUS audacity to get injured ONCE!!! Nathan is basically a non argument as you cannotpick any non MO reliever to more demonstartye that NOT all relievers are volatile. Nathan is about as far from volatile as it gets.

              Papplebon? Ok he’s now had all of one bad season. ANd it was hardly a “fell off a cliff season.

              Matre? Farnsworth? Come on those are straw men arguments.

              Farnsworth had ONE good season before he got that contract and was not a consistently excellent pitcher.

              I won’t even dignify the idea of lumping CHOP and Marte into this conversation because they have nothing in comon with the issue.

              EVERY year that Soriano has been healthy he has been ultra elite. He has a career whip of 1.0 for gods sake.

              Make the argument hat his injury history means he may get hurt BUT DO NOT make the argument ath if he is healthy he is volatile.

              If he is healthy he is elite PERIOD.

              There is nothing in his track record to label him as anything aside form elite.

              His health is a concern. His talent and performance are not.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        “Spending Andy Pettitte money on Soriano frankly is very ridiculous.”

        Comparing Rafael Soriano to Farnsworth or Chan Ho Park is equally ridiculous.

        “And we have no diea if he makes the bullpen better as per the volatile nature of relievers.”

        So I guess we also have no idea if CC makes the rotation better, but I’ll take my chances that he does.

        “K-Rod, Papelbon, Nathan and Lidge are previous elite and look now.”

        -K-Rod performed like an elite reliever in 2010.
        -Papelbon fell off big-time in 2010, but was still a decent relief pitcher overall… he didn’t become terrible, just slightly above average. We can’t really say he “fell off a cliff” until we see what he does in 2011. One season does not make a trend.
        -Nathan has been elite and especially through his 31-33 year seasons (which are the ones Soriano is signed for), he just missed a season due to injury. That can happen to any player.
        -Like K-Rod, Lidge actually bounced back after a terrible season. Did you actually look at any of these guys performances before bashing them?

        • The Real JobaWockeeZ says:

          Comparing Rafael Soriano to Farnsworth or Chan Ho Park is equally ridiculous.

          Comparing releivers to releivers is ridiculous? Okay buddy.
          So I guess we also have no idea if CC makes the rotation better, but I’ll take my chances that he does

          Strawman. I said nothing about the nature of starting pitching as elite styarters have better track records than relief pitchers but I guess distorting arguments is okay too.

          -K-Rod performed like an elite reliever in 2010.
          -Papelbon fell off big-time in 2010, but was still a decent relief pitcher overall… he didn’t become terrible, just slightly above average. We can’t really say he “fell off a cliff” until we see what he does in 2011. One season does not make a trend.
          -Nathan has been elite and especially through his 31-33 year seasons (which are the ones Soriano is signed for), he just missed a season due to injury. That can happen to any player.
          -Like K-Rod, Lidge actually bounced back after a terrible season. Did you actually look at any of these guys performances before bashing them?

          I don’t have time but is it be a dick day because I disagree with the signing? Lide and his 3.80 FIP sure is great.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Comparing a very good reliever to an ok reliever and a 37 year old who had lost half his career due to injury… yeah, that’s as ridiculous as paying a couple mill more per than the accepted rate for an elite reliever. Absolutely.

            You’re complaining about a strawman argument when that’s exactly what your “all relievers will break down permanently” argument is? I’m not quite sure you understand what a strawman argument is anyway. Starting pitchers fall off cliffs and get injured too, and I could make a more convincing list to prove my point than your relievers list. It’s fairly analogous.

            “I don’t have time but is it be a dick day because I disagree with the signing? Lide and his 3.80 FIP sure is great.”

            Yes, exactly, it is you are being a dick because you disagree with the signing day. You are creating a strawman argument that all relievers always break down when the evidence is stacked against the very examples you use.

            I guess you admit you’re wrong on the other 3. Lidge was never that great for that long. He’s topped a 3.8 FIP once since 2005. Lidge and his 2.96 ERA, 1.226 WHIP, and 137 ERA+ did alright last season.

          • pete says:

            Comparing relievers to relievers is ridiculous? Okay buddy.

            Comparing elite relievers to crappy relievers is ridiculous, yes.

            People tend to generalize. Generalizing tends to lead to misconception.

            (cwidt?)

            still, though, I think it’s best to view all players as unique entities. Soriano is an elite reliever who has been consistently elite when healthy. He has been pretty healthy over the past five years, but was less so before that, so his health, while not a glaring red flag, is certainly a concern, making the decision to relinquish a draft pick AND pay $35 mil over three years for him, when his performance upside is limited by the inherently limited number of innings a reliever can affect.

            If you ask me, the best-case scenario – Soriano pitching all year and putting up dominant numbers – would make him worth the $12 million. If he then opts out and nets us two draft picks, he’ll have been more than worth the sacrificed 2011 draft pick. So in the absolute best-case scenario, he’ll live up to the value of his contract, and ultimately be worth slightly more than we gave up in total for him. But that is the best case scenario.

            Otherwise, that’s a big chunk of the budget, plus a first round draft pick in an excellent draft, all sacrificed for a reliever whose performance hasn’t been volatile, but whose health has. In other words, can he be worth it? Sure. Will he? There’s no way to know at this point. That’s one of the reasons why people are concerned/frustrated.

            There’s also the bit about how we have AJ, Nova, and Mitre in the rotation, and barring each of them reaching their best case scenario, adding Soriano still may not go far enough (at least, in some people’s minds) towards making us a playoff-caliber, let alone world series-caliber team. This,I think is the biggest issue on people’s minds: what if the team doesn’t even make the playoffs this season, even with Soriano? How can we justify having zero first-round picks in a season wherein we don’t even make the playoffs? That’s a pessimistic viewpoint, sure, but it’s not batshit crazy pessimistic.

            It all comes down to how you feel about the team as it stands without Soriano. If it’s a playoff or near-playoff team, Soriano’s probably a good add (especially if it means Joba’s in the rotation). If you think the team probably won’t make the playoffs or surpass the first round even with Soriano, then obviously it’s a pretty terrible move.

            That’s why I don’t like the move. The way I see it, it’ll either be a small net positive or a huge net negative.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “Otherwise, that’s a big chunk of the budget”

              6%.

              “In other words, can he be worth it? Sure. Will he? There’s no way to know at this point. That’s one of the reasons why people are concerned/frustrated.”

              You can say the same thing about any big-time free agent, though. It’s not unique to Soriano. There are tons of albatross contracts belonging to starters and position players, and many of them are for more than 3 years and $11.7 per.

              “There’s also the bit about how we have AJ, Nova, and Mitre in the rotation, and barring each of them reaching their best case scenario, adding Soriano still may not go far enough (at least, in some people’s minds) towards making us a playoff-caliber, let alone world series-caliber team”

              Unrelated. You don’t blame your CF if your infield sucks. Maybe that CF can get to some bloops the middle IF should or throw out/hold on some runners that never should have been on base, but it’s not his fault the infield is bad.
              The only way it’s related is if Soriano’s money cost(s) them a quality starter. They’re still well under 2010 budget, so I don’t think it has or will.

              “How can we justify having zero first-round picks in a season wherein we don’t even make the playoffs?”

              A. You can not make the playoffs any season. 8 of 30 teams make the playoffs, or about 1/4. 3/4 of teams will not make the playoffs, and can’t properly make all their free agent decisions in fear they won’t make the playoffs.
              B. They basically do have a first round pick from Javy.

              “The way I see it, it’ll either be a small net positive or a huge net negative.”

              Or anywhere in between… Losing one #31 pick is just not the end of the world.

              • pete says:

                All pretty good counterpoints, except the signing and the team’s prospects are very much related. Soriano is a complementary piece, not a foundational one. If he improves your playoff odds from 20% to 30%, is that really worth the sacrifice of a draft pick AND that kind of salary commitment?

                I really don’t know. I’m on the fence about it, kinda going back and forth between thinking it’s an overall good move to an overall bad move. I certainly think there are plenty of valid reasons not to like the move.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  I would guess the Yankees have a lot better than 20-30% chance at the playoffs. Not that I know the number. They’re basically returning a 95 win team that won the wild card by 6 games minus 1/2 a season of Andy Pettitte. They’re returning the best offense in baseball, and a pitching staff that goy 1/2 (48% really) of its starts from AJ/Javy/Moseley/Nova/Mitre last season. Tampa got appreciably worse. Maybe Chicago got better. The Yankees are right there with anyone to me, though.

                  I mostly think improving your team is worth a draft pick, since you’ve got a 20% chance he’s a ML player. And the chances he’s a real impact guy are a whole lot lower than that. I would rather not give up a pick or more every single season, but not the end of the world especially if you’re also getting some comp picks back or willing to make up for it by spending on IFAs. I don’t know exactly the conversion, but signing an extra $1 mill IFA would probably easily theoretically make up for the draft pick (in terms of chances of getting a ML impact guy).

                  To me the Yankees are firmly in the playoff hunt.
                  A couple of wins could make the difference between playoffs and sitting at home. For one, that’s worth a whole lot of money to the Yankees. More than $10 mill I’m sure. And a healthy Soriano probably means a couple of more wins than without him one way or another. Not necessarily just games where they would have lost with Joba instead of him, but games with some scrub instead of Soriano because unless they trade Joba that’s who he’s replacing in the pen. Everyone besides Mo slides down a rung so to speak.

                  I think there are valid reasons to not like the move, too. The thing that bothers me is people ignoring or making light of the positive and harping on all the negatives as if they’re a foregone conclusion. Which has been happening on this site quite a bit since the signing.

        • bpdelia says:

          ha. You just basically quoted my arguemtn. WE must have been typing these refutations simultaneously.

          JObawokee your lumping of CHOP and MArte in there is straight up intellectual dishonesty, the inclusion of Krod and NAthan actually MAKES our rgument and BELIES yours.

          And Papplebon has not “fallen off a cliff” he had ONE year where he went from all world to merely above average/good.

    • pete says:

      I agree to an extent. I don’t mind the money; there are two opt-outs, and the yankees have the money, especially this year. I don’t like losing that draft pick, though. Not in the superdraft.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        The Yankees lose one pick, but might pick up two later. I’ll take two shots in an average draft over one shot in a much hyped one.

        And your chances of getting a contributing ML player from 29-33 is about 20%, 5 or so years down the road before which time the Yankees can make up for the pick in a number of ways.

        Chances are also as high that the Yankees would pick a Cluver type who they may well have been able to pick up with a later pick.

        They lost a pick with Soriano and gained a pick from Javy… pretty much broke even.

        • pete says:

          True. I’ve said before, I think the best-case-scenario is actually a very positive one, but I don’t think it’s very likely to come to fruition:

          1. Soriano dominates in 2011, then opts out, netting us 2 picks, and “only” costing us $12m in a year in which we’ll probably still be a bit under budget.

          2. Soriano’s role as dominant set-up man means that the yankees move Joba back to the rotation, where he’s clearly more needed (regardless of whether or not people are confident in his abilities there)

          3. Joba is very good in the rotation in 2011, never leaves.

          If all of that happens, this was an excellent move. But #2 has about a 15% chance of happening, and #3 has about a 2% chance of happening. #1 seems to me to be about a 50% chance.

          I’d love that scenario, but I don’t like any of those (totally made-up and arbitrary) odds.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            That’s not the only situation where it works, though.

            He can also leave after 2, 3, 4… years as a Type A or Type B FA.

            He can give the Yankees 2, 3, 4… very good seasons in relief.

            The Yankees can find a pitcher mid-season–either via trade or prospect promotion–who is better than Joba would have been.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Again, though, you are implying some sort of a trade-off between Soriano and improving the rotation that I just don’t see. They’re largely unrelated in my view. It improves the overall pitching staff, but the chances of improving the starting rotation in the short-term are the same as before Soriano was signed.

  12. Big Apple says:

    he looks like Contreras!

  13. Big Apple says:

    i figured 29 wouldn’t be avaialble after it was retired in the name of Kei Igawa

  14. Brian says:

    What does Girardi do if they win the WS this year??? Bump Soriano to 30, skip 29 and take 30 himself, or just cut the gimick and stick with 28?

  15. Eric says:

    How common is it to have new player come in and take someone’s number?

    The Yankees are really disrespecting Cervelli by doing that. Eventhough Francisco is not a prominent player and he may not make the major league squad this year, he is still currently on the team.

    • Big Apple says:

      i like cervelli…seems like a nice feller…but he’s lucky to have a pinstripe uniform at this point.

    • bpdelia says:

      meh. In my opinoion Cerelli should still be wearing uniforms in the 70′s. Cervelli basically has a job for 2 more months.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Soriano may well have paid him for the number–which happens–so I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions about poor Paco Cervelli. Maybe he feels disrespected, maybe he willingly gave it up and doesn’t care, maybe he got my annual salary to give up the number…

  16. Kiersten says:

    If someone just handed me $35 million, I’d look a lot happier.

  17. bpdelia says:

    YEah but some peeps jsut aren’t happy dudes. Randy Johnson smiled about four times in his career. Whatya gonna do? Dude isn’t someone who has a sunny disposition that’s for sure.

  18. Fuck Face says:

    Count how many times Levine mentioned “we’re running a 5 billion dollar company.”

    They are going to sell this team sometime down the road.

    Also, Carl Pavano? Are you kidding me?

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