Jan
17

Open Thread: Clay Bellinger

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More World Series rings than Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, and Honus Wagner. Combined. (AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

One the best and worst things about baseball is the way we romanticize the game. It’s amazing how we end up remember events as more important than they actually were or players as being better than they were. Clay Bellinger is a perfect example, I remember him being a pretty damn good bench piece during the dynasty years. But you know what? He stunk, hitting just .194/.258/.365 in parts of three seasons with the Yankees while playing pretty much every position besides pitcher and catcher. He was also pretty old (in baseball terms). The Giants drafted Bellinger in 1989 before letting him leave as a minor league free agent, and he even made a stop in the Orioles’ minor league system before joining the Yanks. He spent two years in Triple-A before making his big league debut, and by that time he was already 30. The Yankees released Bellinger nine years ago today, and you know what? I’m still going to remember his as being awesome for no other reason than because I can.

And here’s your open thread for the evening. The Devils, Isles, Knicks, and Nets all played today already, so you’re left with no local sports tonight. I’m sure you’ll figure something out. Enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread
  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    Is the number 12 the symbol for mediocre bench players on the Yanks? Other than Fons, we’ve had Nunez, Bellinger, and I’m sure a whole cast of others wear the number.

    The number 24 is a different story, though.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Charlie Keller was anything but a bench player, as was Gil MacDougal.

        Trivia question-What was Babe Dahlgren most remembered for?

        Hint-Wally Pipp was the alpha and he was the omega.

        • MikeD

          That Wade Boggs guy was pretty good, too.

          I don’t remember Roger Clemens wearing 12.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          I guess I’ll answer this myself, Dahlgren took over for Lou Gehrig after he ended his streak and was diagnosed with ALS.

      • MannyGee

        LOL… thx for that…Andy Phillips Jumpin Cody Ransom also donned the number… and 1/2 season of Pudge’s corpse…

    • alfonse

      gilo mcdougal wore #12 and he played every infield position in the 50’s

  • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

    As much as I don’t look forward to Nova and Mitre both being in the rotation, I still the expect the Yankees to make the playoffs. With a move for a starting pitcher and a lockdown bullpen, this team is built for the playoffs. If you can head into the playoffs with CC/Hughes/Pitcher X/AJ, a great lineup and a stellar bullpen, that’s a tough matchup. As much as I want Pettitte to come back, I don’t think the #5 start needs to be addressed until closer to the deadline. I’d still like them to take a flier on an arm (Duchsherer my favorite), but if they can get to Ocotber (and TB will be worse), they’re built for success.

  • kenthadley

    Gorzelanny just went to the Nats. Cash didn’t seem particularly interested, but there isn’t anything better available (Freddie G, Millwood, headline the list of weak available arms). I think Gorz would have been better than most, particularly being lefty. OK, he’s not David Price, but compared to what’s out there, I think we should’ve taken a shot. Is there anything better left?

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      Gorzelanny costs more than just money though. If he is better than what’s out there, is it a big enough difference to give up prospects? I’d rather just a take a flier on someone who’s out there now and trade at the deadline if necessary, for more of a sure thing than Gorzellany is.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’m not sure I would have matched what the Nats gave up. Morris and Burgess are damn fine prospects. It’s like …Adam Warren and Melky Mesa. Plus they threw in a third guy.

      • kenthadley

        Well, it might be academic, but Warren and Mesa for somebody who slots into a 3/4 for a playoff contending team seems a reasonable price to pay. The third guy was a throw in from what I can tell. Warren is what, our 5-6 rated starting pitcher in the minors, and Mesa might aspire to be Willy Mo as a ceiling. It just seems like we just don’t want to make a trade. Now, it’s a different story if we think Warren can be something for us, but from what I’ve read here, folks aren’t even sure he’s a starting pitcher in the majors. Just trying to figure out what we are doing going this late with Nova-Mitre, neither of which is Gorzelanny.

        • whozat

          Gorzelanny would, in all likelihood NOT slot into the 3/4 hole effectively. There odds are that he’d be a disaster.

          • MikeD

            Agreed. I think that’s probably what Cash thinks, too. He’s not giving up a young arm for someone he thinks won’t work.

            I’m still not seeing any names come up who I think will be better than what Joba has given us as a starter. Even a reduced-expectations Joba has more value than most of these guys.

      • NJYankeeFan

        That would have been too much to give up for a 4th/5th pitcher type like Gorzellany. I think there is a pretty decent chance Warren will be at least as good as him in a year or two, plus he’s not exactly an innings eater.

      • MikeD

        The Nats did give up more than I thought it would take.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      Pitcher A (career): 4.68 ERA, 9.3 H/9, 1.0 HR/9, 4.1 BB/9, 6.6 K/9, 1.60 K/BB
      Pitcher B: 4.63 ERA, 8.2 H/9, 1.4 HR/9, 5.1 BB/9, 9.1 K/9, 1.79 K/BB

      Pitcher A is Gorzelanny. Pitcher B is Oliver Perez. The similarities are too great to make Gorzelanny a reliable asset.

      • kenthadley

        Yes, but one is trending up and the other is obviously trending to oblivion. I don’t buy the comparison, but I don’t think Gorz was THE answer, just an answer.

        • mustang

          Agree!

        • whozat

          I don’t buy that Gorzelanny was on the way up. Looking year over year, he seems wildly inconsistent, and nothing about his stuff makes me think there’s upside there.

          SOunds like you just want a move for the sake of it.

      • MikeD

        OMG, Oliver Perez. I hadn’t even thought about him. I mean, if the Mets just flat out relase him, do the Yankees invite the lefty to camp? I think they have to, just as a look-see. Just the slight chance he might contribute will drive Met-dom crazy.

    • mustang

      Agree.

  • long time listener

    I believe he’s now a firefighter in Arizona. His Wikipedia page mentions that he was the assistant coach of an Arizona Little League team that went to the 2007 LLWS. His real first name is “Clayton,” which makes him sound like someone who wears a white suit and hangs out with Colonel Sanders and Foghorn Leghorn. “I say I say I say, I won two WORLD SERIES RINGS!”

    • Craig

      this made my night

      • long time listener

        I live to serve. And make Foghorn Leghorn jokes.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

    Oh man, remember the Curse of Clay Bellinger?

  • http://yanksdraftsandprospects.blogspot.com/ Jake H

    I can’t wait for baseball.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      Only 27 days until we get to see five inning games.

      • MannyGee

        luckily for us, Mirte or Nova will be pitching those 5 innings…. so there’s that

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

    I came to an epiphany earlier today: I don’t hate the Angels nearly as much as I did last year. Maybe it’s my soft spot for a mediocre team, I don’t know. All I know is that the Angels could be considered my second AL team now.

    Since the opening of YSIII, the Angels are (including playoffs) 9-13. Maybe I like them because we can suddenly handle “ANGELS BASEBALL” now.

    • Jose the Satirist

      Weren’t the Angels the only team with a record above .500 against the Torre Yankees? I always felt like they were a thorn and I still dislike them. If we keep winning against them maybe that will dissipate. But not quite yet.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      All I know is that the Angels could be considered my second AL team now.

      BANNED

      It’s not even that they beat the Yankees, it’s all the stupid Scioscia heavy-breathing and that.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        Also, the Yankees never really had an issue with the Angels at YS, just Angel Stadium was generally like a nightmare

  • Squishy Jello Person

    The knowledge that I cannot take the Jeopardy audition test because I am technically a Disney/ABC employee is soul crushing.

    And I LOVE my job.

    • long time listener

      What is a “conflict of interest”?

      Seriously, though, sorry about that.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      I’ll take your spot.

    • Esteban

      I tried out for teen Jeopardy when I was in HS and made the first cut and got to do mock Jeopardy game and all. Unfortunately I didn’t make it to the the real thing, but one of my competitors (a blind girl) did make it, and she did terrible.

  • ZZ

    Just curious. Do RAB posters think that Joba would be a better starter than Nova in 2011?

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      I do, yeah.

    • The Real JobaWockeeZ

      Probably, yeah.

    • Jose the Satirist

      Unpopular opinion, but I don’t.

    • long time listener

      Yes.

    • mustang

      Probably the same, but It’s hard to tell with Nova’s small sample.

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      Yes.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Yeah, but I really don’t like Nova

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      I think he could be as effective as Hughes was last year. Over the last two years, he’s pitched 229 innings. His arm could get the necessary stretching out in ST and can be the fifth starter throughout April and be our guy (non-CC division) in 2011 like Hughes was in 2010.

      • mustang

        Who?
        Joba?

        Ok then.

      • Xstar7

        I don’t think Nova in 2011 is going to be as lucky as Hughes was in 2010.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Hughes wasn’t lucky. Yeah, the run support helped him get a bunch of wins, but his ERA, FIP, xFIP, the whole nine, were nearly identical.

          • Xstar7

            Were nearly identical to what?

            • The Real JobaWockeeZ

              ERA is identical to FIP, xFIP and all that.

              • Xstar7

                All right then

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              I’m not Mike, but I’d guess each other. As in his ERA, FIP, xFIP were all very similar.

    • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

      at least better. We all know that Joba has knockout potential that Nova just doesn’t have. Over a 30 start sample, the difference would be apparent

    • NJYankeeFan

      Yes. At least as good with a much higher ceiling.

    • Squishy Jello Person

    • Mattchu12

      I think Joba is a lock for a sub-5.00 ERA, so yeah.

      The thing that makes me desperately want to see him in the rotation, is that he has the potential to post a sub-4.00 ERA and build upon it in future seasons.

    • MannyGee

      he’ll be a push, which I can live with. He would be heads and tails better n’ Mitre, though. and I think that is everyone’s point of contention…

    • Total Dominication

      Definitely.

  • Monteroisdinero

    I’m with the unpopular opinion as well. Nova over Joba. I’m a sucker for a good changeup and good mechanics. Also like Nova’s mellow/cool attitude out there.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      Nova has no strikeout pitch or deception in his delivery. Sure he may throw 95+, but without a strikeout pitch it means nothing. It just means he’s going to get torched by the sixth inning.

      • ZZ

        What?

        Nova is not a strikeout pitcher. He can certainly get by the 6th inning without getting torched without a knockout strikeout pitch if he emphasizes groundballs and by mixing his pitches.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Emphasizing groundballs is easier said than done though. If it was easy, everyone would do it. I like Nova and think he’ll be a decent backend guy, but nothing more unless he can miss more bats. Hopefully Rothschild’s reputation as a strikeout pitching coach is legit, and not just a coincidence of having strikeout pitchers.

          • ZZ

            Why would everyone emphasize getting groundballs?

            Ideally you want a strikeout pitcher, but someone like Nova who doesn’t have that true strikeout pitch, yet a nice sinker can be a very good pitcher.

            • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

              Groundballs stay in the park.

              • ZZ

                Groundballs are also subject to defense and randomness of where they will go.

                Are you saying you prefer a groundball pitcher to a strikeout pitcher?

                • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

                  Of course not. But we know Nova isn’t a strikeout pitcher. While it would behoove him to try and increase his groundballs, it’s easier said than done.

        • MannyGee

          sorry, going to the tape on this one.

          he pitched 6 innings only ONCE last season, got into the 6th only 3 other times. so he could not get through 6IP in half his starts last season; that is a concern if he is earning himself a spot in the rotation, no?

      • Monteroisdinero

        Nova has excellent deception-same smooth delivery on all pitches. It ain’t all about strikeouts pitching and home runs hitting. Nova has 3 pitches. Joba has two. His offspeed curve/change is not as advanced as Nova’s.

        Joba has a longer history and a ring but I like Nova.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        You don’t necessarily need either a swing and miss pitch or deception to be successful in the bigs. His upside is limited, but he could be a nice pitcher who eats innings eater and wins loads of games on a team like the Yanks. Chien Ming Wang never had a swing and miss pitch or any deception, and he was our #2 at one point.

    • mustang

      “like Nova’s mellow/cool attitude out there”

      Me too.

      • whozat

        I love this. Sterling and Waldman decided this was the Nova meme after his first start, because he wiggled out of some jam. As more teams saw him, a few guys would get on base and he’d start to implode because he had trouble from the stretch — but the meme was already set in stone, DAMN the evidence!

        • mustang

          Nothing set in stone because of the small sample its an observation from the few time I seen him pitch. What does Sterling and Waldman have to do with it? Maybe if you stop following the “Sterling and Waldman” mashing herd you realize that they have nothing to do with it but of course that would be asking too much.

          • whozat

            What they have to do with it is being the folks who manufactured that narrative, because it certainly didn’t come from reality. I listen to most games on the (internet) radio because I live on the west coast. So I heard them call most of his starts last season and, despite him struggling whenever he put guys on base, they’d decided that he had Grace Under Pressure the first time they saw him.

            SO, since you’re parroting that narrative…

            • mustang

              So you didn’t SEE him pitch, but you can criticize the observation of people who have. Ok then that’s reality based right there argument over.

    • Xstar7

      “Nova’s mellow/cool attitude out there.”

      Except when he pounds his glove furiously after a big out or the pouty faces he makes after Girardi pulls him.

      • Monteroisdinero

        Oh please-as if Joba’s theatrics and loss of composure are not well known.

        • mustang

          Shhhhhhhh!

  • NJYankeeFan

    Pretty nice signings by the A’s adding Fuentes and Balfour on 2 year deals. They could be a tough matchup in the playoffs with a good bullpen and a good starting rotation, sort of like a poor man’s SF Giants from last year.

    • The Real JobaWockeeZ

      Except with a worse offense which is tough to do especially when they have a DH.

      • NJYankeeFan

        Despite their lack of offense, I think they’re going to give the Rangers a run for their money for the division.

        • Xstar7

          And I guess that means the Angels are going down the toilet?

          • NJYankeeFan

            One can only hope.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        The middle of their order should be pretty good after adding DeJesus and Willingham.

        • NJYankeeFan

          Didn’t they add Matsui also.

        • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

          Don’t forget Matsui. He might be a formidable weapon on the road, because he sucks at the Coliseum. He has a career line of .265/.316/.294.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Oh yeah, I forgot about Matsui. Some combination of DeJesus, Barton, Willingham, and Matsui should produce enough runs for them to win games, especially with good starting.

          • Xstar7

            Don’t forget the AL west’s other less famous Suzuki that plays for the A’s

  • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

    I just took a look at Gorzelanny’s career stats and there is nothing there that would make me want the Yankees to trade for him. Doesn’t strike out enough guys (though it has been increasing), walks too many and doesn’t eat many innings. All of that in the NL.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    I’m not sure if the question should be would Joba be better than Nova (I think he would); I think the question should be whether he’d be better than Mitre, and I think we can all agree on that one. I’ve got no real problem with giving Nova a shot at the rotation, but I do have one with giving Mitre (another) chance to shit the bed.

    • Jose the Satirist

      Does anyone think Mitre would be better than Joba in 2010?

    • Xstar7

      Try telling that to Brian Cashman who’s convinced Joba should stay in the pen.
      (FREE JOBA!)

    • NJYankeeFan

      That’s hilarious.

    • ZZ

      My question wasn’t mean to have any functional purpose as to the Yankee staff. I was just curious really how confident people are in Joba and to a lesser degree how little faith they have in Nova.

      If Pettitte does not return, I think Joba should get a chance to compete for a spot in the rotation, but it is just difficult for me to understand the level of optimism they have in him after watching him pitch last year.

      Joba would have to come to camp in shape and throwing the ball downhill consistently for me to think he would be better than Nova or worth moving him out of the bullpen again.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        but it is just difficult for me to understand the level of optimism they have in him after watching him pitch last year.

        His peripherals were good, and that’s definitely encouraging. He’s still young enough, too, that there’s upside left. It’s more than worth a shot. Even if Pettitte does return, he should still be given a shot at the rotation.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Yeah, I agree completely. One sinkerballer on the staff is plenty, two and you could have some pretty rough stretches. At least Joba has swing and miss stuff, so his ceiling is higher.

    • mustang

      “I think the question should be whether he’d be better than Mitre, and I think we can all agree on that one”

      Agree and worth repeating.

  • Avi

    According to Fangraphs Nova’s average fastball velocity was 93.1 MPH last year, good for 17th best among all starters. All 16 pitchers ahead of him are really good. Nova also has sink on the pitch, good control and at least a serviceable curve ball. Are we selling him a bit short?

    • NJYankeeFan

      I think he has some potential but he never really missed a lot of bats even in the minors and you have to think that’s only going to get worse in the majors.

      • Avi

        Wang was a front end starter without missing a lot of bats. Halladay also is an elite starter that was never a big K guy.
        If Nova can maintain an average FB of 93 and command his curve ball I don’t see why he can’t be a 3.75 – 4.25 ERA type of pitcher.

        • NJYankeeFan

          Bill James has him projected at 4.61 ERA and 4.22 FIP so I think you are a tad over optimistic.

          • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

            In 80 innings too. If he put that up over 175 innings I’d be pretty happy with that as a #5.

        • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

          Halladay struck out 219 batters last year. He had a K/9 of 7.83. He wasn’t Pedro Martinez, but he wasn’t Wang, either.

          • Avi

            My point was just that you can be a successful starter without “missing a lot of bats”.

            • whozat

              Generalizing from special cases is a classic logical fallacy. Sure, it’s POSSIBLE, but betting on it would be foolish.

              • Avi

                It’s not just Halladay. He’s an extreme example. Every year there are pitchers that are really good with a K rate about the same as Nova’s in triple A this past year (7.14/9)

                • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

                  And that was Nova’s best K rate, and it came in AAA.

          • RiddlemeThis

            he was also in the nl; that league is basically a bunch of free swingers….not hard to K them.

      • Avi

        Halladay’s K/9 in ’06 and ’07 was 5.40 and 5.55 respectively.

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      Velocity is just one of many facets of pitching.

      • Avi

        But based on what is everyone saying this guy is no more than a back end starter? Nova is much more than a finesse type. Also with the deception I remember reading last year when he came up how he was very deceptive because his delivery was so effortless. Funny.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Yeah, he’s probably nothing more than a backend starter, 93 MPH fastball or not. RHP’s right around Nova in velocity last year include Jason Hammell, Kyle Davies, Jeremy Guthrie. Others include Oswalt, Gallardo and Hughes. Nova has a much better chance to end up in the first group due to the whole repertoire of pitches. Again, velocity is not everything.

          • Avi

            So the rankings are an indictment on his secondary pitches?

            • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

              That, and despite good velocity on his fastball, it doesn’t necessarily make a a good pitch. A 96 MPH fastball, if straight and not consistently located properly, is not a good pitch.

              • Avi

                Well he has good control, it’s also not a straight FB, it’s a sinker. His curveball looked to me liked it had sharp break many times last year. Obviously he’ll need to work to be consistent with it but which rookie doesn’t need to work on consistency with their breaking stuff. I don’t see how someone can rank Nova as a back end guy based on a concern over control or location.

                • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

                  Considering every talent evaluator* considers him nothing more than a backend guy, I’m sure there’s enough to go on in both scouting reports and stats that peg him as a #4 or #5 guy going forward.

                  *hyperbole, but I haven’t seen anyone too high on Nova

                  • Avi

                    I know they all peg him as a back end guy, I read the same evaluators you do. I’m trying to understand why though? I’m wondering if Nova has had a recent spike in velocity and all the reports were based on lower readings.

              • RiddlemeThis

                “A straight, not consistently located fb”

                don’t we have a guy like that…..(cough)JOBA!!!(cough….cough)

          • Avi

            Other starters right around Nova’s velocity are CC, Greinke and Lester. There are a lot more good and great starters in the 93.1 range than the ok guys you mentioned.

            • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

              Yeah, and they are good because they have a lot more than a fastball with good velocity. They have good to great secondary pitches and not all 93 MPH fastballs are created equally.

              • Monteroisdinero

                and Nova (not even one full season in the bigs and just turned 24) has excellent secondary pitches-curve and change.

                What was Halladay doing at age 23/24? The same pitcher he has been from 28-33? Not saying Nova will be that good but the jury is still out. He’s a big guy with good health, good mechanics and a full repertoire. Confidence and experience takes some time.

                • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

                  Not that prospect rankings are gospel, but Halladay was a big time prospect, loved by talent evaluators. Nova is not. There’s a reason for that.

                  • Monteroisdinero

                    True enough. Nova was the triple A pitcher of the year-there is some potential there. Then again, Nunez was the allstar triple A SS and we all know nobody here likes him. A career utility guy-so deemed at age 23 by all the experts. This is all tough to predict but if Clay can get a few world series rings-anything is possible.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Yeah, this gets overlooked. I’m not sure if its because he was in mid-season form, or overthrowing the ball because he was so amped to get a big league call up. But his scouting reports said he sits in the low 90s, but when I watched him pitch the radar gun seemed to be 95-97 consistently. If his added velocity is for real, his upside could be close to that of Wang.

    • MannyGee

      not selling him short, would really love to see him get through a lineup 3 times without falling apart is all… didn’t see it much in 2010, hoping for more in 2011

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        It’s really tough to get on a pitcher for that in his rookie year. He may very well just need to learn how to make adjustments.

  • Russ

    I was a Clay Bellinger fan, but then I’m a sucker for those types of utility guys. Granted he was certainly no Andy Fox or Homer Bush but he is missed because we really could use a multi-positional bench guy right now.

    • Monteroisdinero

      He’s no Austin Kearns. I sure will miss that guy’s approach at the plate.

      /not

  • bonestock94

    Dodgers gonna sign Thames here. I’m really hoping for a Colletti overpay here, I can use some basball lols.

    • bonestock94

      ugh typos

  • PaulF

    I decided to tally up the 2010 WAR totals of the players that the Yankees have added and lost this offseason:
    Lost
    Pettitte 2.3 WAR
    Thames 0.6
    Wood 0.4
    Kearns 0.3
    Johnson 0.1
    Berkman 0.0
    Vazquez -0.2
    Total : 3.5

    Added
    Martin 2.1
    Soriano 1.6
    Feliciano 0.8
    Jones* 1.8
    Total: 6.3

    Net gain of 2.8 WAR

    This is obviously very rough and doesn’t account for changes in playing time, but it does suggest that this offseason might not be going as badly as it seems. Thoughts? Anyone I missed?

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      It really hasn’t been bad. The perception of “losing” Lee, along with the Sox picking up Crawford and Gonzalez gets the headlines, but it has not been a disaster offseason for the Yankees. If Pettitte comes back, that’s even better.

    • NJYankeeFan

      I think you have to knock off 1 WAR from Andruw Jones to be realistic but they would still come out ahead of last year.

      • PaulF

        I agree, I just didn’t adjust anything to keep it as simple as possible.

    • Avi

      I think the Yanks will add a strong starter sooner or later (might be Pettitte) and they’re then set up to have a ridiculous team. One starter is the last piece to the puzzle. That’s why I keep voting a 9 in the fan confidence poll. If the Yanks add Pettitte or a starter like him, is there any doubt they’re at least one of the top two teams in baseball on paper?

    • Jimmy McNulty

      It’s kinda unfair talk about the WAR added. There’s a good chance that Cano, Swisher, and Gardner decline. Hell it’s not out of the question that A-Rod and Jeter take another dip in production too. The Red Sox just had an incredible offseason, not to mention they’re likely to see a rebound from Beckett and Lackey and not to mention full seasons of Pedroia and Youkilis.

      • MikeD

        Yeah, but you’re an Oriole fan, so why do you care about either team?

        • Mike HC

          haha … Bret has possessed McNulty for the night

  • bonestock94
    • NJYankeeFan

      I saw him play a couple of games as a SI Yankee. He seems fairly agile behind the plate and made consistently hard contact especially compared to another young prospect on that team, Kelvin DeLeon.

    • Avi

      Well he’s top 25 right now according to most. If he destroys low class A pitching (at 18) and proves himself as a legit catcher he might be the best prospect in the game.

      • mbonzo

        If he destroys low A, I’m sure they’ll move him up quicker to a level he’ll struggle at. His slugging is ridiculous for a 17 year old, so I don’t know how confident we can be that he’s actually his age.

        • Avi

          Yeah I could see Sanchez finishing next season at high class A, ready to advance to double A in 2012. That would be sick. He looks young, almost baby faced in his pictures. Is there any test to tell someone’s age? it’s gotta be in the blood/DNA..

          • mbonzo

            The only way is to cut him open and count his rings.

            • Avi

              For the record I’m more concerned about Burnett than Nova. I have no faith that Burnett is gonna improve. I would take Nova over Burnett for this season at the same salary.

      • mbonzo

        Also, if he repeats what he did last year, I could definitely see him being ranked above Mike Trout. But the odds are very slim.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Not if Trout repeats what he did last year.

          • mbonzo

            I don’t know, I like .329/.393/.543 better than .341/.428/.490 when its coming out of a catcher who’s a year younger.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              Trout’s got like plus plus speed and a great glove. He’s ridiculous.

    • MannyGee

      TO

      DA

      ROTATION

  • Dale Mohorcic

    Sure hope starting Sergio meat tray turns out to be a bunch of baloney.

    • Monteroisdinero

      We all know he can’t cut the mustard.

    • Pat D

      I still can’t believe we traded Cecilio Guante for you.

  • mbonzo

    Fun Fact
    Nova, through the first 2 innings this year in the majors had a 0.64 ERA. He had a 2.57 ERA through the first 4 innings, and through the fifth he had a 4.76 ERA.

    • Avi

      I think that has more to do with focus and composure than anything. You don’t go to from that unhittable to that hittable because it’s the second time guys are seeing your stuff.

      • whozat

        Yeah, you do. That’s why guys get consigned to the bullpen for being two-pitch pitchers. You need that third pitch to turn the lineup over more than once or twice.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          To add on to what you said, it also has to do with this being a 14 inning sample size, with BABIP’s of .235 in the 1st and .150 in the 2nd.

          • mbonzo

            Oh sweet didn’t see the BABIPs. Thats pretty scary. Its .417 in the 5th innings too which is good news. I wish they had splits for his minor league games.

        • Avi

          There are and have been a ton of starters that had a lot of success with just two pitches. Clemens and Burnett are two guys that come to mind immediately (throwing a slider for Clemens or changeup for Burnett 5 times a game had very little to do with their success). Also Nova does throw a change-up.

    • Monteroisdinero

      So the answer is CC/Hughes/AJ and Nova 4/5 innings with Joba 2/3 innings. Our 4th starter is Novajoba. 5th starter hopefully if Andy comes back.

    • MikeD

      Nova to the pen!

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Oh and just in case you weren’t aware: Kemba Walker. That is all.

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      What’s his NBA potential?

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        I have no idea, honestly. I know nothing about how NCAA talent translates to the NBA because I don’t know enough about the NBA (though I totally called Thabeet sucking). He’s super fast, obviously, has decent handle, and can drive well. But, his shooting is kinda inconsistent and he isn’t all that big.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Sounds like a tweener. Probably end up picked in the 20’s and have a better career than at least half the lottery picks who don’t share the same ridiculous upside.

          • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

            Yeah, he’ll definitely be athletic enough to hang with the NBA guys.

        • Shaun

          99/100 if your a great college baller; your a great NBA baller….he sounds like a bench player.

  • Chief

    Clay Bellinger – the only thing I can remember about him is making a catch at the top of the left field fence off the bat of Todd Zeile in the 2000 World Series, game 2 I think?

  • YankeesJunkie

    Man I just reading the NoMass live chat…scary scary stuff and not in a good way.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      They draw a very eclectic bunch over there. Its more about comedy than analysis.

      http://nomaas.org/blog/wp-cont.....fptich.jpg

      But this pic they posted today was pure comedy gold.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      did several commenters at this site make “appearances”?

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        You and Joe P. did. Guess who.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      BTW-That ‘Sensitive RAB Guy’ has taken a bit and gone way, way longer than any normal person would have. It’s actually at the point where it’s kinda creepy how obsessed he is with the 3 authors over here.

    • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

      that almost sounded like the pick of Francesca’s craziest callers after a big loss.

    • Pat D

      I still go there once in a while, but I stopped posting long ago. The people who post there, quite frankly, are assholes.

  • http://bww.com Adam

    This site is f’n nerd central. Clay? WTF? If there’s no news, go out and do something. You f’n nerds.

    • Adam’s Mom

      Quit picking on the other kids honey and go to bed it’s past your bedtime!

      • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

        are you kidding? hahaha well done. well done. went a long way for it, but well done.

    • mbonzo

      Enjoy life without responsibilities and a job to wake up for while you can.

  • Xstar7

    Does anyone else think the Knicks are a tad overrated?

    • Xstar7

      No?

  • OldYanksFan

    Any guesses on what Pujols signbs with the Cards for?
    I say 8/$224m

    • Jimmy McNulty

      9/275

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    Joba For Pelfrey

    In the case of Pelfrey, the Yankees would receive a pitcher who just turned 27, is remarkably durable and consistent, and would immediately solidify the back end of the team’s rotation. With the 2011 plan clearly to get through six innings and turn it over to the bullpen, having a pitcher like Pelfrey- whose last three seasons are comparable to what the team received from Chien-Ming Wang- would provide a huge boost. And Pelfrey’s durability means the Yankees have a bulwark against injuries/ineffectiveness by everyone in the rotation not named CC Sabathia or Phil Hughes.

    As for Chamberlain, the new Yankee plan calls for him to pitch extraordinarily low leverage innings. Why not turn that spot into a strong rotation option instead? Furthermore, Pelfrey’s age allows him to slot in with Hughes and Sabathia over the longer term, and puts that much less pressure on the talented trio of Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances and Andrew Brackman. If all three pan out, great- the Yankees can deal Pelfrey. But that’s asking a lot of pitching prospects- more likely, at least one will not.

    http://www.baseballthinkfactor.....r_pelfrey/

    Ummmm…no. I’m not trading mediocre production with good peripherals for mediocre production with bad peripherals. Try again, Howard.

    • Xstar7

      That’s not going happen since Pelfrey is going to be a big part of the Mets rotation with Santana’s injury and all.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Meh, the Met’s know they’re dead this year, and probably for 2-3 more years. Best thing they can do is rebuild and pray for a WC.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Best thing they can do is rebuild and pray for a WC.

          Oddly enough, that sounds similar to the Yankees’ plan.

          • FIPster Doofus

            Not really.

        • Reggie C.

          Heh.

          The Mets need:
          1. Johan Santana to pick up where he left off and re-establish his ace-hood,
          2. Jon Niese to turn into Andy Pettitte,
          3. RA Dickey to regress but match one of those not-so-terrible Tim Wakefield campaigns,
          4. Jason Bay’s to re-discover his 30 homer power,
          5. Jenry Mejia to spend a full-season in the minors without interruption.

          I think the Mets will be able to scap together just enough offense in Reyes, Wright, Beltran, and yes … Bay. The huge question marks are with its rotation, and at the end of the day, the team is probably 2 years away.

          • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

            ..and when the sell off Beltran (and possibly Reyes) at the 2011 trade deadline, it could be even longer.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Seeing as how the Yankees need quite a bit of shit that they need to win the division, I don’t think we should be poking fun at the Mets.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              If we can’t poke fun at the Mets than the terrorists have truly won

              • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                then, even. I suck at then/than

  • http://twitter.com/AnthonyMartins Anthony

    When I was younger he used to be my favorite player. I would call him Clutch Bellinger. (turns out he wasn’t clutch at all)

  • Jimmy McNulty

    I think I hate Joba more than anyone here. Move that asshole to the fucking rotation.

    Yes, I know this is a dead horse, and no I don’t care. I’m a fan and goddamnit I’m going to bitch about dumb shit my favorite team does.

    • bakekrukow412

      Isnt McNulty the last name of the nasty babies from Rugrats?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Maybe?

        • bakekrukow412

          Haha I think they should try him one more time in the rotaton too, just for the heck of it. Maybe we’ll get lucky.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            He’s the seventh inning guy for the next two years, foreseeably. I don’t see what the risk is. Sure Joba’s life may be drastically changed because of this, but that’s not something I’m concerned with.

  • Pat D

    I just want to let everyone know this: if you’re having a problem with your cell phone, and the screen of your phone is cracked, it DOESN’T MATTER if that’s the problem with your phone.

    You broke your phone, your carrier ain’t gonna send you a new one unless you have insurance. And if you don’t want to pay the insurance fee, that’s your problem.

    • Xstar7

      That happened to me. It sucked and my phones warranty didn’t cover it.

      • Pat D

        That’s right. No warranty of any kind will cover physical damage.

        • Xstar7

          It’s ridiculous. They just called it “neglect of merchandise” and wouldn’t repair or send me a new one even though I generally took good care of my phone but accidentally dropped it on it’s screen and cracked it. I eventually just bought a new one but it still pisses me off.

          • Pat D

            Yea, that’s the way it works. I’m not trying to be un-sympathetic, but I’m speaking as someone who does tech support for a cell phone company and just had a call that really got on my nerves because the customer didn’t listen to me at all.

            The cell phone carrier is not the maker of the phone, but they’ll redeem the warranties because they move faster than the phone makers. But no phone warranty covers anything considered physical damage, which is basically cracked screen, broken pieces, obviously cracked plastic, etc. There’s no use arguing this point.

            Put it this way. If you call me, you have damage like that, but you don’t tell me and I replace your phone, you’re going to get an out of warranty charge that can be anywhere from about $80 to $300 depending on the phone you have.

            • Xstar7

              Interesting. That phone was a gift anyway but still.

    • MikeD

      I never buy insurance or the extended warranty on anything, with one exception: My Blackberry, which is now about four years old. I’ve had it fixed a number of times, so I’ll probably do it again when I finally replace this thing, which is rapidly approaching ancient technology by today’s standards.

      • Pat D

        I’d get it for a smartphone, considering the costs involved.

        Make sure you know if it’s just an extended warranty, an insurance option (which covers things a warranty doesn’t), or a combination of both, so you know exactly what coverage you have.

  • Avi

    For the record I’m more concerned about Burnett than Nova. I have no faith that Burnett is gonna improve. I would take Nova over Burnett for this season at the same salary.
    (posted this above by accident)

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      Burnett is likely to improve, at least to 2009 form. He’s not going to be historically bad again.

      • Avi

        No way I don’t see it but, from your mouth to Mo’s ears.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Likely to improve to atleast 2009 form? He dropped a K and a half per nine innings, his heat dropped a tick, and his curveball completely disappeared.

    • Reggie C.

      Whether Burnett flames out again to the tune of a 1.50 WHIP. My memory of Burnett’s help in the 2009 post-season has already dimmed to a flicker, but for many its altogether extinguished after 2010. I won’t write him off just yet. Hopefully he can shave the WHIP down to ’09 levels.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    Two things:

    The Cape, while nerdy as hell is awesome. Superheroes fucking rule.

    Pawn Stars is incredible, whereas Hardcore Pawn is just a couple of slimey sleezeballs taking advantage of poor people.

    Bonus Cantos:

    American Pickers gives me hope that no matter how hard I fuck up in life, if I’m willing to drive cross country with a guy who can’t negotiate his way out of a nutsack and root around through other people’s shit I have a viable future.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Pawn Stars is incredible, whereas Hardcore Pawn is just a couple of slimey sleezeballs taking advantage of poor people.

      I LOVE “Pawn Stars.” I watched “American Pickers” a few times, and wasn’t too impressed.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        I like the feeling of superiority I get from watching Chum-Lee and Big Hoss.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

    http://img207.imageshack.us/im.....urtis5.png

    From the Nomaas chat, Curtis Granderson is supposedly a pervert. Who would have thought?

  • Avi

    Jon Rauch for one year $3.5M with a 2012 club option of $3.75M seems like one of the best contracts given out this off season.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    yankees willing to include nova, mcallister and 2 prospects for dan haren, will not eat $ and give up joba. still talking.

    http://nomaas.org/2011/01/coul.....-shouldve/

    Would you make that deal (Joba, Nova+2 prospects) for Haren today? I would.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      In a heartbeat.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Hell…that could have been 28 then. Sigh…

    • Xstar7

      If this deal gets done and the Yankees sign Andruw Jones we can actually say the Yankees had a successful offseason. Who would have thought?

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        No, you misunderstood. That’s an old Tweet from last year’s trade deadline when Haren was available. He’s not available anymore.

        • Xstar7

          Well in that case Cashman made a mistake by not going through with this deal. (Forgot that Cashman dealt Zach Mcallister already.)

          • ZZ

            It says the Yankees were willing to do that, not that the Diamondbacks were willing to accept it.

            • Xstar7

              Cashman should have included Joba in the deal and one less prospect. I don’t know what Cashman sees in Joba. Maybe he wanted to keep him for future potential trades

    • ZZ

      How can you answer that without knowing who the prospects were?

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Since the headliners are named, the assumption is the other two would be lesser, b-level type prospects. Nobody in the top 5, maybe at most a Laird-type who breaks the top 10.

        • ZZ

          From what I remember Arizona wanted Banuelos. You also have to remember you are talking about these prospects from July. Top 5 guys now that the season is over were not necessarily well known guys then, especially to someone like Heyman who has no idea who these kids are.

          • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

            Maybe it was either Joba or Banuelos? Both sounds a little rich, especially considering what they actually got for Haren.

            • ZZ

              It is hard to compare packages in a trade like that and say the Yankees could have beaten that.

              It was an ownership driven trade to dumb salary and when ownership gets involved you never know what they actually want. Saunders was more of a brand name to bring back to sell to fans. Or it is just possible that Byrnes is a terrible GM who really valued Saunders and judging from his quotes after the trade this could have very well been the case.

    • Avi

      Assuming the prospects aren’t Montero or the B’s anyone would jump all over that deal. If it’s true it’s a bad job by Cashman for mis-evaluating Joba and not getting that deal done.

  • http://www.superkyle.tk Engelbert

    just noticed this: why does it say Jeter wore #42 in 2007?

    http://www.yankeenumbers.com/p.....=%3D%2C%2C (sfw)

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

      Jackie Robinson Day. Every player in MLB wears #42 on that day to honor Jackie Robinson.

      • Pat D

        Well, it’s fluctuated. Some years a couple players did it and I remember some years where everyone did.

        Personally, I think it’s being overdone at this point. What’s the purpose of permanently retiring the number if you keep unretiring it for one day? Surely there are better ways to honor the man.

  • ZZ

    One last thing about Nova.

    This idea that he can’t get through the lineup 3 times or pitch deep into games is very unfair given what actually happened last season. Putting aside that it was he first taste of the big leagues and it was only 7 starts, Girardi never gave Nova a chance to pitch deep into the game or get through the order again.

    His pitch counts were: 73, 88, 76, 91, 74, 74, 78, 81.

    Of course you are not going to pitch deep into games if your manager has that quick of a hook. The games were too important last year and at any sign of trouble Girardi would take Nova out.

    Give the kid 100+ pitches to work with and then it is fair to start making those kind of statements.

  • Avi

    According to Heyman the Yanks are thinking about signing Damon. Would they sign Damon even if they have Andruw?
    http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....1861059584

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Jon’s had a great off season so far, but I’ll still weigh in with my snarky ‘Damon’s a Boras client’ reply to that one.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        For those who haven’t noticed, Jon had the “mystery team” on Lee when nobody else did. He had Soriano to the Yanks when Cashman was flat out denying it, and stuck to his story.

        Credit where credit’s due, and I’m no fan of Heyman.

        • Avi

          Yeah, he’s gaining credibility, no question.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          He also specifically said the “mystery team” wasn’t the Phillies at first. But, yeah.

          • mbonzo

            He also said the Yankees would probably sign Lee. My problem with Heyman is that he predicts everyday team to sign a player so he’s right at some point. I don’t trust him.

      • mustang

        Agree on Heyman,

        Nice to see someone giving him some credit instead of just bashing the guy at very turn.
        Don’t care for the guy one-way or the other but the bashing/ no credit thing gets crazy here sometimes.

    • Xstar7

      The only reason I think the Yankees would get Johnny Damon is if they didn’t get Andruw Jones. And even that doesn’t make too much sense since the Yankees are looking for a fourth outfielder who’s right-handed. Maybe Heyman’s trying to tell us the Jones talks aren’t doing so well anymore.

      • Teh Comp Pick

        My first two thoughts are that 1. Heyman figures his tweet is more popular by throwing NYY into it and 2. The org trying to put a little pressure on Jones.

        That being said, Damon is a fit while a LHB himself, he hits LHP well

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      The only way that’s even remotely true is if they are going to trade one of their 3 starting OF’s and want to platoon Damon and Jones in LF.

    • MikeD

      Maybe another Levine move. Might explain what I saw earlier. I was driving by the Gateway Building in Stamford, and I’m pretty sure I saw Brian Cashman planning to repel down it again, but without any ropes.

    • MikeD

      Damon to the Angels would be interesting. They already have Abreu, so they’re rebuilding our poor defense OF. They also had Matsui last year. Wonder how longer before Bubba Crosy is their starting CFer?

  • bonestock94

    Uhhh is Prince Fielder really that skinny now???

    • bonestock94
      • MikeD

        Can’t be. I’m pretty sure he was still his tubby self in October, so no way he’d drop what looks like 100 pounds in a few short months. Photoshop? Illusion?

        • Avi

          Hey, it’s his walk year. Money talks. Every pound he loses is probably worth a million bucks.

  • mustang

    Ugly list:

    Brian Bannister,Jeremy Bonderman, Doug Davis,Justin Duchscherer ,Freddy Garcia,Braden Looper,John Maine,Pedro Martinez,Kevin Millwood,Jamie Moyer,Nate Robertson,Carl Pavano,Jarrod Washburn,Todd Wellemeyer,Chris Young and Jeff Suppan

    • mustang

      I would say to list them from best to worst, but in this case I’m not sure if that applies.

    • MikeD

      Nova’s looking better.

    • MikeD

      Just reviewed the list again. I should add:

      Mitre’s looking better.

    • mustang

      True enough!

      Although I hate to hear the beat over and over again I can understand why the Joba starter drum is beating so hard right now.

  • NJYankeeFan

    That psychopath Larussa is still messing with Colby Rasmus. There’s no way that situation is going to end well for St Louis and the Yanks should keep their number on speed dial. We should be able to put together a pretty competitive package for that future superstar when he inevitably becomes available.

    • long time listener

      The key is to wait until the Cardinals lose faith in him and are willing to take a lousy package for him, but not so long that LaRussa does permanent damage.