Jorge Vazquez’s Chances
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You might have noticed this weekend, while watching the first televised Yankee games of 2011, that some pudgy dude was busy socking dingers. That was Jorge Vazquez. Signed out of the Mexican League prior to the 2008 season, Vazquez is in camp with the Yankees for the second time. Despite the display he put on this weekend, he stands about as much a chance of making the team as he did last year.
If you look through Vazquez’s history, you might wonder why he’s not a consideration for that final bench spot. He raked his way through the Mexican League, finishing with an OPS below 1.000 just once in his final four seasons there (and it was .988 that year). Then, in his first stateside season, he put on something of a display at Trenton, hitting .329/.357/.578 in 238 PA. The only thing holding him back, it seemed, was the injury bug. He missed 86 days in 2009 due to various strains and bruises.
Last year he, along with fellow former Mexican Leaguer Manny Banuelos, underwent an appendectomy and missed the start of the season. He hit .390 during his brief return to Trenton before heading up to Scranton. There he hit .270/.313/.526 in 316 PA, mostly as the team’s first baseman and DH. His discipline might be lacking, as he has drawn just 26 walks in 596 minor league plate appearances (4.4%), but his power remains prodigious; in AAA he produced a .256 ISO.
If Vazquez has displayed high batting averages and considerable power, then why is he nowhere on the Yanks radar? Why isn’t he under consideration for a bench spot? Why didn’t Baseball America write his name a single time in its writeup for the 2011 Prospect Handbook? Vazquez, it appears, is a case of scouting over stats. His style of play apparently won’t play well in the majors. We’ve seen this before with plenty of other players, but it reminded me of one specific player formerly in the Yankees organization.
When I first started writing about the Yankees, during the 2004 season, they had a guy raking in AA. Mitch Jones finished the season with a .246/.334/.548 line. The next year, in 2005, he moved up to AAA and continued to rake, .268/.347/.507. During that year I wondered why Jones wasn’t coming up to help. In 2006 I wondered even more. The Yankees outfield had suffered two major injuries, and they could have used a power bat such as Jones. They actually did call him up in late May, but sent him down after just a day on the roster. By year’s end they had designated him for assignment.
For the next few years Jones ambled around the minors, and even spent some time in Japan. In 2009, amid a torrid season in the hitter-friendly PCL, the Dodgers finally gave him his first pro plate appearances. He made 15 that season, going 4 for 13 with a double and six strikeouts. He was also hit by two pitches. But that’s basically the book on Mitch Jones. Vazquez could be headed for the same fate.
Chances are Vazquez returns to AAA this year and continues to produce quality power numbers. He might even flirt with a .300 average. But chances are, barring a crippling rash of injuries, he won’t sniff the bigs. Despite the numbers, the scouting report just isn’t there. Joe Girardi might have said it all, by saying really nothing at all, in response to a question about Vazquez. “If he hits a home run every day, I’m sure he’ll get the Grapefruit (League) MVP.” But he probably wouldn’t make the Yanks.
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The Mason Williams Watch
If Jorge Vazquez were to spend a full season in MLB, could he hit more home runs than Javier Vazquez allows?
that can’t be humanly possible
He probably would hit .220 but with 15-20 bombs. He’d probably hit most of those early in the season too as pitchers would probably figure him fairly quickly and stop throwing him fastballs.
And that would be valuable.
I don’t get why teams don’t use utility hitters like they do utility pitchers. Get a hot month or two out of a Shelley Duncan type, then demote him when the book gets out on him, and replace him with the next.
which means the Cubs would prob pay him $10M?
/Carlos Pena’d
I think him better choice than Chavy.
So what is his style, and why won’t it play well in the majors?
You asked a bunch of questions in the beginning of the post that you acted like you were going to answer, but never answered them.
What isn’t “there” in the scouting report?
This. I’m intrigued as to what kind of a scouting report can keep numbers this good out of the majors. Is it just injuries? Are there gaping holes in his plate approach (a la Pedro Cerrano in “Major League”)? It’s not like I’m saying your claims are wrong, I just want to know why you make them (unless you don’t know what the reports say, in which case you should make that clearer).
Me too.
What does,
a case of scouting over stats. His style of play apparently won’t play well in the majors.
mean? As written, it doesn’t say anything much.
I’m guessing scouts don’t look kindly on the 95K in ~300 ABs.
I’m guessing scouts don’t look kindly on the 95K in ~300 ABs.
He said “a case of scouting over stats”. Those are still stats.
I’m guessing they don’t like his swing/approach at the plate and see him as more of a mistake hitter who feasts on the back of the rotations in the minors but wouldn’t fare well against MLB pitching everyday.
Yeah, but the point is that even statistically there’s a reason to doubt Vazquez.
“see him as more of a mistake hitter who feasts on the back of the rotations in the minors but wouldn’t fare well against MLB pitching everyday.”
This can also be verified or dispelled pretty easily using stats… You would just have to look at splits against bad and good AAA pitching. Or against MLB pitchers in international tournaments.
Most things that happen on the field are quantifiable. If scouts hated his swing, but he was OPSing 1.200 in AAA I’m sure he’d get a shot. His lack of discipline does look like a big knock against him.
Is it me or does vazquez look like Ganon from the legend of zelda?
A question related to Vazquez’s chances…
Does Chavez & Belliard have opt outs if they don’t make the team out of ST, like Garcia & Colon?
I know every comment now is countered by “it’s only ST, etc.” but Vasquez has a very quick bat and a ton of power. If he can play 3B (he did today), I would prefer him over Chavez as well.
But I would also prefer Gardy over Jeter leading off.
Neither will happen.
Wily Mo Pena has a quick bat and a ton of power too. And Izzy Alcantara.
Wily Mo Pena had a couple seasons above replacement level and produced wOBAs in the .350s. I’m not sure that’s a good example of why Jorge Vazquez can’t be a 25th man in MLB. I also never remember hearing Pena referred to as having a good attitude or professional approach. He maybe could have been better than he was with a better attitude.
Alcantara at least got a few PAs across 3 seasons.
At some point I think you have to give the guy a shot, depending on circumstances. Maybe you wait till rosters expand, especially if the Yankees are pretty far ahead or behind. Maybe it’s if/when Chavez or Belliard gets hurt or struggles. Or if A-Rod goes on the DL. Maybe he loses out to Brandon Laird, but at this point I’d take a look at Jorge over Russo or someone.
Wily could also play all 3 OF positions, if Vasquez could, he might get a look. And Izzy was a much more accomplished minor league hitter who never got a real shot at the majors. I’m sure theres a reason the Yankees aren’t looking to promote him, nor are teams beating down their door to trade for him. He appears to be a classic AAAA player.
Wily was “20″ when he made his big league debut… It wasn’t that comparable. He had a ton of potential that he never lived up to. It’s probably more comparable to Pena going to the Nationals later, but at that point he was already a bust who’d gotten the chance and not really made it probably for non-baseball reasons as much as baseball reasons… so, again, not entirely comparable. Pena wasn’t really a AAAA player.
Vazquez can play 1B and 3B, so he’s got some positional value. If A-Rod or Chavez/Belliard goes down or the latter gets cut…
Izzy did get PAs across 3 seasons. At 27 he got 48 PAs and did quite well. At 28, though, he got 41 and stunk. At 29 he got another 32 and pretty much stunk again. I don’t know if that’s a fair shot, but it was a real shot. If he had hit the same way in his 41 PAs at 28 that he did at 27… he probably gets a better shot. He also couldn’t play 3B. I think all anyone would look for would be Vazquez to get the kind of shot Alcantara got.
I’m not saying Vazquez is likely to be a good major leaguer, but if he keeps hitting he may well get a shot with the Yankees or elsewhere.
funny thing is Jorge V went 2-2 today against the Tigers. In 3 game’s he’s 5 for 5 with 2HRs.
He’s also the one Yankee in camp that was already playing in competitive games in the Caribbean Series the first week of Feb, so I’m pretty sure that also helps.
I always like these underdog stories in Spring Training, just like Jon Weber last year, only Jon Weber was busted for PEDs for the third time in June and has since retired from baseball
Vazquez was the MVP of the Caribbean series, I believe. He was also the slugger on the Mexican WBC team a couple of years back as well.
Weber had also been around the block and was 32. Not a whole lot different, but Vazquez is with his first MLB org and 29 this season.
So if the scouting book is already written, signed, and sealed, why is he getting in-game at-bats?
Because baseball is so damn random sometimes. You never know, maybe Jorge discovers an ability to be patient at the plate over night.
Also the regulars can’t be playing all 9 innings yet.
Also, depth. He’s a phone call away should one of a few guys go down: A-Rod, Tex, Posada, and Chavez/Belliard could all be replaced by Vazquez. Especially if Montero and/or Laird are struggling or deemed “not ready”/better off getting regular at bats in Scranton.
And if he continues to rake all ST maybe the Yankees get some phone calls about him… At which point you have to decide how valuable he is to you vs. what you’re getting back.
if they mated:
oliver platt + shrek = vazquez
He kind of looks like Chris Britton
http://farm4.static.flickr.com.....929a04.jpg
meanwhile, Chris Britton looks like a rapist in that picture… or thats the WORST “Girls of the Big 10″ COVER EVER
Vazquez looks like Brian Bruney
He reminds me alot of Erubiel Durazo wen he plays for sum reason.
Probably because they’re both Mexican… Seriously, though, Durazo had good patience and Vazquez seems to have none at all. Durazo destroyed minor league pitching in his only full MiLB season to the tune of almost 1.200 OPS in both AA and AAA. Maybe a poor man’s Durazo who lacks patience and is a righty.
I think we should wait and see how he looks the rest of spring. He has just as much chance of making the team as any other young talent on the team, especially if he keeps hitting the way he is!
He’s not that young… 29 on March 15. I don’t think he has a great chance out of ST, since the Yankees can keep him in AAA with Chavez or Belliard getting a crack at a bench spot. If he keeps hitting at AAA, though, he could/should eventually get a shot. Some of it may also depend on how Laird is doing.
The patience is not there, but you could also compare Vazquez a little bit to Miranda. In the right org he could get a shot, especially if he works on the patience a little or is on a hot streak where his BA is carrying his OBP. In the Yankee org maybe he gets a shot should A-Rod or Chavez/Belliard go down if Laird struggles in AAA…
Last year, the Yanks had Cervelli, Pena, Thames and Winn as the 4 bench guys; only one extra infielder. With A-Rod being apparently healthier and more servicable, do we really need to use a bench spot for a 2nd infielder?
Also do the Yanks want an A-Rod caddy, a versatilty guy, a glove guy or a bat (lefty or righty) for the last bench spot? Doesn’t seem really obvious to me which direction they want to go.
The thing about Vazquez, compared to Chavez/Belliard or Winn in 2010, is that the Yankees can start him in AAA and then bring him up later if they want to. Chavez and Belliard can just walk rather than accept an assignment to AAA (I’m guessing anyway… don’t know the terms of their contracts). So even if they end up stinking like 2010 Winn and being cut, Belliard/Chavez may be preferable to a Golson/Curtis/Nunez/Montero/Laird/Vazquez breaking camp with the team from a roster management standpoint… not to mention that some of those guys might benefit from regular work in AAA more than sporadic appearances in MLB.
Good point. Vazquez has only been with us since 2008, so we still control and options on him going forward. Minor leaguers like Laird, Russo, Golson, Maxwell, and Curtis, as well as Nunez and Pena are already on the 40-man, so they may have leg up for a call up anyway. I can see clearing a 40 man spot for Chavez or Belliard, but I don’t see it happening for Vazquez.
Also, with Andruw pretty much a lock to make the team, Vazquez’s primary plus tool (righty power) is redundant.
well he is young compared to me….
Yeah Juan Miranda called…
But seriously, this team has an impacted ass-full of 1st Base/DH types… just can’t see him making the team under these conditions.
Damn shame too… he is outhitting @ 120M worth of ML talent at this point in the season… looking at you, #2
What is so bad about having a bunch of DH’s on the team? In 2009 we had a ton of DH types and we won the world series that year. You don’t always win with guys that you expected to win with or even thought would be a factor that year. Sometimes guys come out of no wear, and may be this year it will be Vasquez?….
“Hey this guy hits a ton, how come nobody else picked up on him?”
“That’s enough fastball, throw him some breaking stuff”
“Aye! (miss wildly)”
“Oh”
Ahem. on a more serious note, the realy issue is that he really doesn’t seem to walk much at all, he has sort of a right handed Robinson Cano type approach to the plate . that’s fine if you can hit .300 , but there’s little reason to believe that Vazquez is that kind of hitter. not to meantion the bar for 1B is higher.
Still, I think he’s a better player than Shelly Duncan, at least he hasn’t shown a propensity for high whiff rates. The real issue of course is that we have a star 1B and not really lacking guys to backup 1B/DH anyway.
The Mexican Summer League its known because of their off-speed pitchers, there are tons of “curveballers”, and Jorge batted a ton there, the Mexican Winter League on the other hand it is stronger pitching wise, with power pitchers racking up at 94+ MPH, and he also hit them pretty good, he has a good devastating swing and he makes most of it (too bad the pitchers in the winter league aren’t Dominican, Puertorican nor Venezuelan, otherwise they would be paid more attention by MLB scouts). His approach its kind of like the one Ichiro has (not comparing their stats, just their approach):
“if there’s a ball in the zone that i can hit, i’ll swing, either i get a hit or a strikeout”, but of course Ichiro makes more contact and fouls more balls than Jorge because he makes ‘softer’ swings, but their approach it is almost the same (one of the reasons why MLB Teams were a bit reluctant to look at Ichiro while he played in Japan… and also because the real big star has always been Hideki Matsui since his years playing in highschool baseball).
it’s more of a joke on the Pedro Cerrano reference than actually saying that he can’t hit a curveball, the walk rate is more of a concern and honestly speaking even in the best case he can’t really be an improvement over Teixeira…. unless the later gets hurt of course.
For those who don’t know him, Jorge Vázquez nicknamed “El Chato” or “El Superchato” (in english = flat face), was named this years Caribbean Series MVP, when his team, México, won this year tournament, he even had two big bombs to give México a pair of wins, one in the 9th inning of a tie game, and the other one a big blast that left the pitcher friendly stadium:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purHFfcJ-j0
and the other one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OYrhMJCxUU
If the yanks had Alfonso Soriano playing horrendous defense, lacking bases on balls, but racking up homeruns and producing… i don’t see how “El Chato” couldn’t be part time DH/1B/3Baseman.
Jorge sure is better than most of last year minor leaguers brought up by JoeG… but his fate might be the same of Jon Webber, last year MVP for the Yanks in spring training and never was called to the majors, but we saw Winn, and Thames (who had guaranteed contracts, Jorge and Webber not), and even Miranda.
Why do you guys keep saying…once they stop throwing him fastballs!?!?! If you have any idea, both HR’s were breaking balls!!!! And I am sick of hearing of his strikouts. An out is an out. I would rather have a strikeout than a double play. All winter he has been hitting HR’s off of pitchers with ML exp. They are all about average middle relievers, which is where he would be hitting, 6th inning on. And I believe he hit a home run the other day against Brad Lidge on a low, inside curveball!!! He will mash, I dont care who has the ball. Are you people really saying they would rather have Chavez? Are u kidding. Washed up for the last 5 years. Plus you will have to pay Chavez a mil +. Chato will play wholesale!! They also call him El Destructor in Mexico. He is to Mexico what Matsui was to Japan. Gatorade ads, etc. He is not Duncan. Duncan was only a pull hitter. Jorge is a pure hitter to all fields. He is not Durazo. On Mex National team Jorge hits cleanup. He is rated the best hitter in Mexico. Durazo never was. He is an RBI machine!! Every hr seems to be a tie, or go ahead HR. If you want to compare him, it is Nelson Cruz. I would take Nelson Cruz, I dont know about you. Exact stats in Winter ball every year, and in the minors. Jump on the Chato bandwagon, theres still room.
Def have to agree with Yanksfan1. I agree an out is an out but for the ppl who worry so much about his strike outs and lack of walks then this is for you. If we go back a couple years and look at what the batting coach did with Swisher and Gardner and then what they did last year with Granderson and now this year Jeter, then there is no way that they can not improve Chato. That said….. Look at his averages in the last 5 years and now what he is doing in ST. To not give Chato a chance after watching Tex struggle to hit the ball in the first 2 months of last year is just crazy. Plus with the couple pick ups that Boston made I feel that even if our pitching does well we are being hurt by not enough Power.
SRS, WHY NOT DISCUSS OR BOTH IF YOU CAN NOT RAISE A MLB THE SHOW IS GETTING IN THE FIELD OF PLAY, THE NUMBERS DO NOT LIE, until now NINUN PLAYER IS PLAYING IN THE GRAPEFRUIT TAKES THESE NUMBERS, IN EXICO IS HERE FULLEST BATADOR’S IN THE NEWS.
IF THE ORGANIZATION OF THE YANKEES DO NOT UPLOAD, Vendela AND THAT SHOULD GIVE OTHER TEAMS THE OPPORTUNITY.