Feb
02

Open Thread: Johan Santana

By

(AP Photo/Charles Krupa)

It’s been a long, long time since we campaigned to Save The Big Three. That was three offseasons ago, when the Yankees (and Red Sox) were talking to the Twins about acquiring two-time (shoulda been three-time) Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana. The rumored package was Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Mitch Hilligoss, and Jeff Marquez, though Minnesota was supposedly holding out for Ian Kennedy. Think the Cliff Lee or Andy Pettitte stuff is too much this winter? That was nothing compared to the non-stop Johan rumors, around the clock coverage of a trade we never wanted to happen. Three years ago today, it all came to a merciful end when the Mets officially acquired Santana for what amounted to a package of spare parts.

We were happy, many were not. The Yankees were in clear need of pitching help, moreso than they are right now, and there was Santana, an ace in his prime waiting to be had. Brian Cashman gambled that he could keep his prized young players (though four of those five guys are long gone) and simply buy CC Sabathia as a free agent the next offseason. It was a ballsy and absurdly risky move, but that’s exactly what happened. Less than two years after the Johan non-trade, Sabathia, Hughes, and the rest of the Yankees were parading down the Canyon of Heroes, world champs for the 27th time. They took their lumps along the way, missing the playoffs in 2008, but here they are today with both Sabathia and Hughes headlining their rotation while Johan recovers from major shoulder surgery across town. I don’t think Hollywood could have written a better script.

Here’s your open thread for the evening. The Isles, Nets, and Knicks are all playing, but talk about whatever you want. Go nuts.

Categories : Open Thread

177 Comments»

  1. I’m recently eligible to upgrade to a new phone at discounted pricing on Verizon and pre-orders for the Verizon iPhone start tonight. Right now, I’m rocking an LG enV3 and I’m looking to upgrade to a smartphone and replace the iPod Nano that I lost in September at the same time. The problem is that I’m torn between the iPhone and the many Android phones that are currently available on Verizon.

    So, this is your opportunity to influence my decision. Give me your best arguments for and/or against the iPhone and/or Android.

    Go.

    • Xstar7 says:

      Buy the IPhone. It was here first. The Android is an imitation IPhone. And you can get the IPhone for verizon now.

      • SamVa says:

        That would have been the basis of my argument as well… And should be the reason why you pick the iPhone.. It’s the original… And with Verizon service it is the best combo of phone/provider available.
        I don’t think there is any reason at all to consider the android UNLESS they practically give you one… and you have to pay upwards of 200 for the iPhone.. then you might have an argument.

      • radnom says:

        Richard, you haven’t provided enough information for me to give you a recommendation either way but do not listen to this guy. The Android is an imitation IPhone. is nonsense.

        • Esteban says:

          Give me open app stores or give me death. Also good luck customizing your Iphone without jailbreaking it.

        • SamVa says:

          how is it nonsense? what came first? the iPhone started it all.. Verizon needed an equivalent= thus we have the Droid.

          • radnom says:


            how is it nonsense? what came first? the iPhone started it all.. Verizon needed an equivalent= thus we have the Droid.

            All of what you’re saying is. Verizon did not create the droid as an equivalent to the iPhone…actually Verizon had next to ZERO to do with creating Android at all.

            By your logic he should get a rotary phone since it came first all future things were really just copying that.

            • SamVa says:

              So you are denying the fact that the iPhone came prior to the droid and the droid was a byproduct of such creation?

              • Your argument is that Ford came before Chevy and that Chevy was created as a response to Ford.

                Although it’s true, it doesn’t tell you anything about which is the better product.

              • radnom says:

                So you are denying the fact that the iPhone came prior to the droid and the droid was a byproduct of such creation?

                You don’t get it. iPhone was the first consumer targeted smartphone but that doesn’t mean everything that came after is an “imitation iPhone”. They are two wildly different platforms with their own unique advantages/disadvantages.

                What I’m saying is it doesn’t matter which one came out first.

        • Bob Stone says:

          The Motorola Droid or Doid 2 are much better phones than the iphone 3 or 4.

      • pat says:

        Droid has a slide out keyboard. That’s the most tangible difference. I got the Droid when it first came out and I’ve loved it since then.

    • Esteban says:

      I just got a Droid X and the huge screen is fantastic. Comes with 24 gb total of space and I’m pretty satisfied overall. Given that my previous phone was the god awful Blackberry Storm, almost anything would be an improvement. The Android app market has almost everything the App store, with netflix and hulu apps coming this spring.

      According to Gizmodo, it’s not a great idea to buy an Iphone4 now because Apple unveils a new Iphone every year and you’ll be getting last year’s phone when the new Iphone should come out in June. If having the latest technology doesn’t bother, then it’s probably a matter of aesthetics, and if you want a physical keyboard or not (the Droid 2 does).

      • radnom says:

        I actually just made the same move you did, from Storm to Droid X.

        But yeah. Holy shit wasn’t the Storm bad? I’m loving my new X too.

        • Esteban says:

          See the Storm was a real reaction by Verizon to get a touchscreen phone to compete with the Iphone and holy shit did they (and RIM) mess that up. 128 MB Internal storage for applications are you kidding me?

          • radnom says:

            I think I averaged 8 battery pulls a day when I had that phone.

            And it took like 15 minutes to boot up after a crash too.

            • AndrewYF says:

              I happened to like the clicky touchscreen. And it was a fun novelty if you couldn’t get an iPhone.

              But yeah, its big improvement over the iPhone (being able to run apps in the background) was its ultimate demise.

              • Esteban says:

                Yea, I thought I liked the clicky touch screen too, but since I’ve switched to a Droid, I haven’t missed it at all.

            • Esteban says:

              I missed way too many phone calls when it froze and had to wait 5 minutes to reboot after a batterypull. The quickbatterypull app didn’t even work on my phone. Worst phone ever.

      • I’m actually looking for a phone with a touchscreen keyboard. It’s hard to text or tweet in class with the noise of a physical keyboard.

        I’m also not obsessed with having all the newest tech — I just want to replace the piece of junk I have now and be able to listen to my music again while also having access to Twitter and the Internet on the go.

        • radnom says:


          I’m also not obsessed with having all the newest tech — I just want to replace the piece of junk I have now and be able to listen to my music again while also having access to Twitter and the Internet on the go.

          As an Android user myself, go with the iPhone.

          You would probably be happy with either though, to be honest. If the price of the iPhone is too much, don’t hesitate to get a (well reviewed) Android phone instead.

        • If you get an android phone you will love the swype way of texting.

    • Chris says:

      I don’t own an iPhone nor an Android (although I do have an iPod Touch). I would recommended the iPhone because of its simplicity. Androids seem to be great phones, but the iPhone seems to have the same capabilities (or more) with a much more straightforward user interface, etc…At similar prices, I would go for the iPhone.

      However, it is all a matter of personal preference, so I would do some research on various Androids and the iPhone and determine which one seems more practical for you.

    • radnom says:

      You have to tell us a little bit about what you’re looking to do with the phone for a good argument. What kind of user are you?

    • mbonzo says:

      I’m in the same situation as you, I have the Dare. I have been eligible for 6 months now, but I’ve been waiting for the iPhone because it gives me the option to buy one and it’ll bring android prices down if I choose not to. My current phone is starting to not take a charge (I’ve replace the battery many times) and its getting really slow and torn up. I’ve personally decided to go with an iPhone for a few reasons. I don’t like Android phones. There are so many of these Android phones coming out I feel like the new ones are obsolete within a month. I’ve also seen plenty of problems with OS because of its customization. Many phone carriers, especially verizon edit phone operating systems to include their own programs, bloatware. I also happen to think the iPhone syncs easier with computers, and makes it very simple to transfer music.

      The Android phones big plus is the apps, which are generally free or cheaper in comparison to the iPhones. I don’t like the quality of the Android’s apps though, I think Apple does a good job of editing through crappy apps to prevent clutter and possibly buggy software on the phone. I’ve played around with plenty of friends iphones and android phones, and I just really can’t believe how slick the iPhone is in comparison. I hate just about every Apple product, but they really hit the nail on the head with this one. Go iPhone.

      • I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I’m kind of worried about the extensive variation between different phone models and OS versions, as well as those awful customizations that Verizon has a habit of including in phones. I feel that with the iPhone I would know what I’m getting and not have to worry about being left behind the curve when there’a another OS update or about the phone being completely obsolete due to a new model every other month.

        • radnom says:


          not have to worry about being left behind the curve when there’a another OS update or about the phone being completely obsolete due to a new model every other month.

          Don’t let that sway you to one or the other. Just because the iPhone has a small number of major releases and the Android has many, small improvements doesn’t mean your phone will be obsolete faster. Actually as an Android user you will find that OS updates are pushed onto your phone automatically giving you new features where an iPhone user would have to wait and buy the latest version to experience any real upgrade.


          as well as those awful customizations that Verizon has a habit of including in phones

          I have a Verizon droid and you can remove almost everything. The only Verizon based applications I still have are some games which came with my phone (and I use) and backup assistant, which is actually useful.

    • Jose the Satirist says:

      You should really do research and use them in person because everyone is different.

      That being said I’m excited for the HTC ThunderBolt coming out on or around Feb 24th. The major benefit that I am interested in is it is a 4G phone. That means faster speeds for data hungry people like me.

      It is supposed to also feature ability to Skype people without being on a WiFi network. It is bringing communication to a new level. As an added bonus for you since you mentioned the music, it is supposed to sound great. It even has a kick stand with built in stereo speakers for a mini music player. It comes with over 32 GB so it is plenty big enough.

    • KRM says:

      I just went to the verizon store to discuss this very same topic. I was 99% sure I wanted the Iphone, until I heard about the Thunderbolt. It’s a new Verizon 4G (Iphone is 3g) and comes standard 32 gig (Iphone you have to upgrade for that). Also, you cannot insure the Iphone. I will be going with the Thunderbolt, which will be released the same day as the Iphone. Basically it’s an HTC droid, so you have the market, but it has the same touch screen interface as the Iphone so it’s just as smooth. I recommend going to your nearest verizon store to learn more.

    • Ryan says:

      Get the iphone for the At Bat App that supports live game video.

    • whozat says:

      Disclaimer: I work at Google

      I have a Nexus S from work and an iPhone 4 I bought myself. There are things I love about each.

      Android:
      1) The gmail app for Android is GREAT. On my iPhone I read my gmail with Mail and it works fine. I use the web-based gmail too, and it works fine. If you’re a GMail user, this is a big point on the Android side. If you’re not, Apple’s Mail client is probably a little bit nicer.

      2) Maps on Android > Maps on iPhone. You get spoken turn-by-turn directions on one, not on the other. The Android version is also more responsive.

      iPhone:
      1) iTunes integration. That’s where I keep all my music, where my podcast subscriptions are, etc. I have no interest in trying to shoehorn that onto my Android phone.

      2) The Apple address book is way nicer than Android’s, which syncs with Google Contacts. Contacts is broken and crufty and generates duplicate entries all the time.

      3) Mobile Safari is just better than the Android Browser. The UI is simply more polished.

      In the end, the decision was kind of made by the fact that I’m grandfathered into the uncapped 3g data plan on AT&T and have a cheap family voice plan. If not for that, I might very well have made the jump to the android phone. I spend more time in GMail and my RSS reader app than I do browsing at this point, so the experience on my Nexus S is really good in a lot of ways.

      So it kind of depends. If you’re not a GMail user, you have a lot of content that you manage in iTunes, or you expect to spend a lot of time browsing the web (as opposed to doing gmail/facebook/RSS-reading in a dedicated app), definitely go iPhone. if you’re a heavy GMail user, mostly just have MP3s, and every website you like has a nice mobile interface…give the Android phones a long look.

      • Esteban says:

        Oooh Mr. Smarty Pants works at google.

        Haha, your points seem very reasonable and accurate. One thing about Android is the cut and paste function doesn’t seem that well developed/ easy to use.

      • Wow, thanks for this.

        Gmail form and functionality is very important to me. I use Gmail exclusively to manage several personal and college email accounts, so this is definitely a contributing factor to my decision.

        I don’t drive, so I can’t imagine that the turn-by-turn directions could be a deal-breaker.

        Regarding the iPhone points, I keep all my music in iTunes. There are probably better options, but I’ve always used it and I don’t plan on changing. I’m also a heavy web-browser so the browser functionality is very important to me.

        Regarding the data plan, Verizon has said that new iPhone users will be able to sign up for unlimited date plans. I don’t think (I may be wrong) Android users have that option. This is obviously also a big factor.

        • whozat says:

          I can’t speak to the VZW specifics :-/

          Re: the multiple gmail accounts, though, the Android gmail app does great with that (and it does all the gmail threading stuff, and starring and all that).

          The Apple Mail client integrates pretty well with Gmail, but it’s not amazing. I think it’ll do multiple mailboxes on different accounts, but I’m not positive.

          RE: the browser…I’m a heavy web user myself. But, between RAB, Fark and the Onion adding solid mobile sites and my RSS reader…I find myself consuming lots of web content without really noticing that I’m in a web browser. It used to be that I did a lot of zooming (an area where safari kicks the android browser’s butt) on pages, because they weren’t sized for my screen, but now…I just don’t do that all that much.

          Anyway, my decision was mostly governed by contract terms, and it sounds like yours will be too. I think you’ll be pretty happy no matter which way you go. Like someone said above, when I got my first smartphone it was like my life was different. It was glued to my hand in a matter of weeks:-P If you do get an Android phone, do your due diligence and get a nicely reviewed one. There’s been fragmentation in the market, to the point that not all phones can run all apps, some use a totally different UI, and some have more crapware than others.

          • If the unlimited data plan isn’t an option for Android phones, then I will definitely be going with the iPhone. If it is, I’ll check out the reviews of the Android phones before making a decision. At this point, though, I think I’m leaning towards the iPhone.

            • Andy in NYC says:

              OK, so I’m late to the party here, but I’m writing this on my unlimited-data-plan Verizon Droid X- which I love. Try one before you decide.

    • David says:

      I’ll give you my own experience. I have an iPhone 4. It is an awesome little computer. The operating system is beautifully integrated. It does everything very well, and I have access to what I want to sync from my large iTunes collection. However, it is not good as a phone. My wife and I travel a lot, and the AT&T coverage is very spotty, resulting in lots of dropped calls, some of which are serious business calls.

      My strategy is to wait for iPhone 5, buy that, and switch to Verizon at the same time. This would likely be in June.

  2. @TheDog_man says:

    At the time I remember comparing that trade to being offered Pedro Martinez for Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera in 1995.

    A lot of people would have been for that trade at the time. (The same people who were for this deal!)

  3. Jose the Satirist says:

    Mariano Rivera got more first place votes than Santana did in 2005. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Santana deserved to win the Cy Young three years in a row.

  4. Teh Comp Pick says:

    If Joba panned out…that woulda made for a better script. Not saying he won’t be an elite reliever (crosses fingers), but his days as a starter in the Bronx are done.

  5. Avi says:

    I don’t think Burnett for Johan is a terrible idea.
    If you include the $5M buyout for 2014, Santana’s contract is $8M more than Burnett’s in average annual value (if my math is correct).

    • Jose the Satirist says:

      Santana still owed: $77.5M
      Burnett still owed: $49.5M

      Santana status: Hurt shoulder
      Burnett status: Healthy

      • Avi says:

        Burnett: Sucks (replacement level)
        Santana: Still effective

        If the Mets throw some money which I don’t think is out of the realm of possibility, it makes it even more realistic.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          We have no idea if Santana is still effective. Shoulder surgery changes everything. And why would the Mets do this? To save maybe $10M?

        • Avi says:

          If you look at Burnett’s career he’s just as likely to get hurt and spend substantial time on the DL as Johan is, over the next 3 years.

          • Zack says:

            Johan has had 2 surgeries to his pitching arm in the last 2 seasons.

            AJ hasn’t been on the DL since 2007. Where he had a shoulder strain, that Toronto rushed him back from and ended up missing more time. Before that it was a scar tissue issue in 2006, from his 2003 TJS.

        • Jose the Satirist says:

          That is a risky bet that he will still be effective. He already is missing half of 2011. Rotator cuff surgery is serious stuff for a pitcher.

      • radnom says:

        If we are in the end of July and Santana looks healthy and AJ performs to 2010 levels……I’d do it. I think.

        • Avi says:

          Yeah you can’t trade a player that’s on the DL anyway. So this isn’t relevant till he gets back. This also means the cost difference is narrowed slightly too.

    • jay destro says:

      this makes zero sense and you should stick to ps3

  6. bexarama says:

    Am I the only one who hates churros? #TOTALLYRANDOM

  7. icebird753 says:

    This Santana story makes me hungry. Quiero un burrito. How’s Taco Bell, any good?

  8. NJYankeeFan says:

    If the Mets were willing to salary dump Santana and eat lets say 50% of his contract and not ask for any of the Killer B’s, Montero, Sanchez or Stoneburner back in return and Santana was throwing effectively, I’d take a chance on him. The Mets would never trade him to the Yanks though because of all the heat they’d take if he pitched well.

    • vin says:

      They’d have no real reason to trade him. I presume “throwing effectively” means he’s worth at least 12-13 million dollars, which is what they be giving the Yankees to take him away. Also, they wouldn’t be getting any of the Yanks’ best prospects.

      All that plus Mets-Yankee trades are pretty rare.

      • NJYankeeFan says:

        Who knows what’s gonna happen with this Madoff business. If the Mets are really financially strapped or if the Wilpons are going to sell controlling shares, they may want to get payroll down to rock bottom. I agree the Yanks would be the last place they’d send him.

        • Big Apple says:

          this madoff thing is getting worse by the minute. i don’t think the mets will care where they send players.

          • NJYankeeFan says:

            Yeah hopefully. I love to see the Mets suffer. Too bad John Henry didn’t get sucked into the deal.

            • Esteban says:

              Ha I don’t hate the Mets, and I feel bad for them most of the time. Their fans on the other hand…

              • NJYankeeFan says:

                Nah, I hate em. I hope they have to cut their payroll back to Tampa bay’s level. I hate them and their ballpark with that ridiculous Jackie Robinson Rotunda. I must have missed the part of history when Jackie Robinson was a Met.

                • Esteban says:

                  I don’t begrudge them for honoring Jackie Robinson. He was a big part of NY baseball and the Mets claim the legacy of the Dodgers/Giants as the NL’s NY representative.

  9. SamVa says:

    Random, but has anyone seen/heard

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvNQWQSwmow

    (sfw)

    Kind of a cool song baseball wise.

    • Xstar7 says:

      Being a Mariners fan must suck in reality though. Their best players all left them. Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr. (although Griffey did come back.) Even though they won that playoff series in 1995 against the Yankees the Mariners ended up losing in the ALCS. And the very next year the team they eliminated threw a no-hitter against them and wound up winning the World Series. I mean sure they’ve got Ichiro who is probably going to be a first-ballot hall of famer, and Felix who is the best pitcher in the American league, but they still managed to be the worst team in the american league last year. And’s let’s not even mention 2001 when they had the best regular season ever only to lose to the Yankees in the ALCS.

    • Esteban says:

      I don’t like that they mention the ’95 ALDS

  10. How did I go 24 years without ever watching Groundhog Day? Watched it last night for the first time and it’s an instant favorite.

  11. bonestock94 says:

    Buying an iphone at 3 am tonight. I know I’m gonna get screwed when all the sweet 4g dual core androids and iphone 5 come out. My current phone is completely busted though, and I can’t fight the smartphone itch anymore.

    • Esteban says:

      Buy a cheap phone to get you over until June and the Iphone 5

      • bonestock94 says:

        I can’t do it anymore, I really need the convenience of being able to check my email and shit right now. If the 5 is that dramatic of an upgrade I can always sell the 4 for a good price, they seem to hold value pretty well.

  12. Big Apple says:

    i just got an iphone 2 weeks ago. my old phone was over 4 yrs old.. a flip LG. I was happy with it as my goddamn figners are too big to type with and i’m not that crazy about seeing videos/pictures on a small screen.

    the iphone is the shit…it is as advertised. very easy to use..almost too easy. i’ve had it two weeks and i would say I can’t live with out it. the setup was easy and it psynchs perfectly with outlook…i’m sofa kind connected now I don’t know what to do with myself!

    i don’t know anything about the droid, but you can’t go wrong with the iphone…i think the only issue is it doesn’t have the flash player.

  13. Esteban says:

    Those new NBA commercials with the stars as High Schoolers are fantastic.

  14. Esteban says:

    Hey look, NYC has banned smoking in public parks and beaches. As someone who has never smoked and hates smoking, I think this is ridiculous.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....-and-parks

    • Sean C says:

      So, is there anywhere people can smoke in NYC now? I’d ask my cousin that lives in the city, but then he’d go into an hour long “social engineering” and “government over-regulating” rant. I’m not a fan of those.

      • Esteban says:

        I guess your apartment or house, but I heard of a lawsuit where somebody was suing a neighbor in an apartment building because the smoke (or the smell) at least traveled between apartments.

        • Sean C says:

          Sadly that lawsuit doesn’t surprise me. When I watch games on YES at my parents’ house, I see all of these rough NY anti-smoking ads. We don’t really have ads like those here in IL (or at least downstate IL anyway). We have the restaurant/business/bar smoking legislation here, but there are handfuls of bars that you can still smoke in without any trouble. Our police have better things to do than write people tickets for smoking.

    • bexarama says:

      Totally agreed on all points.

    • pete says:

      meh. anything that hurts the cigarette industry is fine by me

  15. Esteban says:

    Knicks are falling apart in the game wtf. Score a basket please.

  16. Esteban says:

    Bieber mania at the Knicks’ game. He’s sitting next to Henrik Lunquist. Little girl is crying after seeing him. Crowd gave him a mixed reaction.

  17. Cy Pettitte says:

    MLBTR says yankees still in the mix for Millwood

    this is like Pokemon for Cashman with shitty pitchers, gotta catch em all

  18. Jerome S. says:

    Since we seem to be doing a lot of random shit tonight:

    WE MISS YOU TSJC

    does anyone keep in contact with him? when’ll he be back?

  19. bonestock94 says:

    Screw it, bring on Millwood for a minor league deal. Who cares lol.

  20. Rey22 says:

    Any White Stripes fans out there? Sad to see them go.

  21. Alex Taffet says:

    For all of you talking about phones, here.
    http://www.pomegranatephone.com/

  22. A-rod#1fan says:

    I see edwardo nuñez as every day Yankees short stop by 2013.

  23. A-rod#1fan says:

    I see edwardo nuñez as every day Yankees short stop by 2013…..

  24. PaulF says:

    I miss baseball so damn much. I hate winter.

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