Yanks made a hefty offer to Pavano

2011 Draft: Cape Cod League Standouts
The RAB Radio Show: February 23, 2011
(Kevork Djansezian/AP)

Perhaps the oddest moment of an odd winter came during the Rafael Soriano press conference. Speaking to the press after Soriano’s introduction, Brian Cashman revealed that he had discussions with Carl Pavano. There was an offer, and Ken Rosenthal’s sources indicated that he was on the verge of a pinstriped return. That didn’t work out, though, as the Twins wooed him back with a two-year, $16.5 million deal. Still, he stood to make a decent sum from the Yankees.

Today SI’s Jon Heyman reported that the Yankees offered Pavano one year at $9.75 million plus incentives. That base salary would have trumped Pavano’s annual salary with the Twins, but there’s no chance that the incentives would have brought him anywhere near that $16.5 million guarantee. Still, I wonder what the situation would have been if the Twins only offered the two years and $13 million that the Pirates did. Might he have come back to New York for up to, say, $12 million in incentives?

The issue really highlights the fan divide on the subject. Despite question marks in the Nos. 4 and 5 rotation spots, many fans wouldn’t have wanted Pavano back under any circumstances. The emotions of seeing Pavano, flat-out accused by some fans of stealing $40 million from the Yanks, for some outweigh the positives he could bring to the mound. My stance runs counter to that; I mocked Pavano as much as the next guy, but on a one-year contract he made more sense than perhaps any other non-Lee pitcher this off-season.

The point is moot, of course. We’ll never get to see Pavano write his redemption story. Instead he’ll start on Opening Day for the Twins. The Yanks did make a significant effort, though, offering Pavano the highest average annual value. But in the end more money, and a less hostile environment, won out.

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2011 Draft: Cape Cod League Standouts
The RAB Radio Show: February 23, 2011
  • vin

    I give Cashman major credit for making an offer to Pavano. It would be so easy for Cash to just write him off because of what happend from ’05-’08. Offering Pavano a contract really shows that Cashman is willing to take the public backlash to help the team. He must feel pretty secure in his place in the organization.

    • Corky Romano

      agreed vin…Also, if people were watching, in Pavano’s final season here he actually pitched pretty well for a while.

      • MannyGee

        the knock was NEVER that Pavano pitched bad at all, as the contrary was true. His numbers in pinstripes were not HORRIBLE, they were right around at career average for him.

        It was the time off the field and proposed alleged non-chalantedness and the Porsche/stripper/car wreck thing that killed him for us…

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          somewhere between his hurting his own ass and breaking ribs in a porsche, i pretty stopped caring about his stats.

          i recognize how unfortunate that is, but it was just tough to watch…

  • YanksFan

    Makes as much sense as bringing Vasquez back. It doesn’t!

    • Joe R

      Really?

    • Mike

      The amount of fans that lambast Cashman over the Vazquez move is puzzling to me. In 2009, the Yankees were fortunate enough to make it through the WS with a 3 man rotation. The schedule for the WS allowed for an extra day of rest making that 3 man rotation feasible. Another guy was needed to solidify the back end of that rotation, and Vazquez was just coming off a year of 200+ IP to the tune of a 2.87 ERA with a 1.026 WHIP. Cashman traded Melky & Dunn for a guy who finished 4th in CY voting that year. Vazquez just had arguably one of the best years of his career. It was a no brainer at the time, give him a break.

      • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

        I can agree that Cashman did well by giving up very little in return for Vazquez, but I never liked the idea from day one. I just think he’s had more mediocre years than good ones, especially in the American League.

        • NJYankeeFan

          You hope he gave up little in return. Arodys Vizcaino would be the Yanks #1 or at worst #2 pitching prospect if he were still in the organization.

          • J

            I’d take all of the Killer B’s over Vizcaino at this point.

            • pete

              that.

              Arodys has Betances’ injury concerns with Banuelos’s stuff except he’s a righty. Still an awesome prospect, but he’s not the physical freak (with physical freak stuff) that Brackman and Betances are, and he’s neither the control freak nor the lefty that Banuelos is.

            • Thomas

              As shown by the fact the killer B’s were all ranked over Vizcaino in the BA top 100. Vizcaino was ranked 93, essentially equivalent to Romine (98), not many would care if they traded Romine for a solid back end starter.

              • fire levine

                a) most had him higher than BA (I think klaw had him in the 60’s) and they all agree he’d be in the top 20 if not for the recent injury

                b) I forgot what my second point was…

                • Thomas

                  most had him higher than BA (I think klaw had him in the 60?s

                  Still he was consistently at the back end of the Betances, Brackman, and Baneulos pack or below.

                  they all agree he’d be in the top 20 if not for the recent injury

                  But he did have that injury and it is a major thing. If Betances didn’t have an injury he might be top 10. If Brackman hadn’t needed Tommy John he would probably have had a better season last year and be ranked higher. Vizcaino did have an injury and may never be the same, may take a couple years to recover, and/or may continue to have injuries. These are why most teams are willing to trade young, high-upside arms in the low minors for what you expect are above-average regulars, because the regular will likely be better than the prospect in the long run.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    They’re prospect lists… They are not even all that predictive of future success let alone 100% predictive.

          • MannyGee

            please… while the Javy thing blew up in Cash’s face, I think he still makes the deal 100 times out of 100. Do not feed me the “prospect value” bullshit WHEN YOU WERE WALKING INTO 2010 WITH A 3 MAN ROTATION!

            • Klemy

              Wait, when did this become something to be angry about?

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              The 2010 rotation without Javy was gonna be CC/AJ/Pettitte/Joba/Hughes. Joba and Hughes were not sure things, and I totally understand why Cashman did it, but that’s not a “three man rotation.”

      • NJYankeeFan

        Fair or unfair, Cashman can only be judged by the end results which were atrocious. Besides, he shouldn’t have been fooled by Vasquez career year in the NL in 2009. His numbers in the AL with the Yankees and Chisox were mostly mediocre and his own manager (Guillen) had questioned his ability to pitch in big games. Javy 2.0 should have never happened.

        • whozat

          You’re exactly wrong. Fair or unfair, you can only be judged on the information available at the time you made the decision. Vazquez was coming off many consecutive seasons of durability and was expected to do nothing more than consume about 200 innings at a league average rate.

          They gave up a very far-away young prospect with promise who wound up getting shut down with elbow problems in 2010 for a guy with a history of durability and at-worst league-average performance who lost three mph off his fastball and as a result struggled.

          • Ted Nelson

            I don’t totally agree. You have to be judged on the information available at the time, yes. However, not all people will draw the same conclusions based on that information.

            For example, say we both look at Freddy Garcia with the same info… we might still draw different conclusions. I think he can be x good and you think he can be y good. If he is ultimately x or y good, does the correct one get no credit?

            So, you have to look at how things turned out. Unless you think all people have the same opinion about every single player.

            That’s in general, though. As far as getting a historically good pitcher (not historically good, but good historically if you know what I mean) for an awful OF and a promising pitcher in the low minors… I tend to agree Cashman made the right decision. I wasn’t thrilled to see Arodys go for a one-year rental, but maybe Cashman was confident the Bs and co would make that somewhat irrelevant. I don’t think any reasonable person would have predicted that season from Javy.

        • Louis

          Yea man, the Yankees should hire you as their gm. I mean you would of seen right past vasquez’s stupid national league numbers. Too bad cashman is no where near as smart as you.

          • NJYankeeFan

            Maybe the logic behind the Javy trade was sound but no reasonable person could argue that trade worked out well with the way Javy pitched. At one time investing with Madoff was considered a smart move too.

        • Klemy

          Hindsight much?

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          Fair or unfair, Cashman can only be judged by the end results

          Hint: unfair.

          Also Ozzie Guillen is insane.

      • fire levine

        the trade wasn’t dunn and melky. it was vizcaino and pieces

  • squishy jello person

    I’m going to file this one under “things I would have been okay not knowing”

  • http://twitter.com/j_yankees J_Yankees

    When first we heard about the Pavano/Cashman talks i thought the amount of support (if that’s the right word?) for a Yankee/Pavano reunion was fairly high.

    I don’t exactly follow the Yankee crazies on twitter and i certainly don’t face the nutcase emails that you RAB guys get but after the immediate mocking of a potential Pavano return, most realized it would be a good thing.

    And had Pavano come back to NY and pitched well, all would have been forgiven. That’s how things go.

  • Yank the Frank

    This redemption thing doesn’t seem to work out, just ask Javy. As bad as the back end of our rotation has the potential to be (and who knows, maybe we catch lightning in a bottle), I’m glad this didn’t happen.

    • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

      One big difference is that Vazquez looked good only in the National League. He was not very effective at all in the American League outside of 2007. Pavano proved he could get AL hitters out for two years now…plus do it in the postseason. Javy has NEVER pitched well in the postseason. I don’t see the comparison between the two holding up.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        Javy has NEVER pitched well in the postseason.

        Yeah, none of it’s good but it’s a 15.2-inning sample size. CC Sabathia was pretty bad in the postseason before 2009 too.

        • MannyGee

          Gorden Edes and Peter Gammons made sure to point that out the day he signed with the Yankees… FN haters

      • Ted Nelson

        “One big difference is that Vazquez looked good only in the National League. He was not very effective at all in the American League outside of 2007.”

        His FIP and WAR were as good in 2006 and 2008 as 2007.

        His first go round with the Yankees he was an All-Star, and then suffered a mid-season injury. Last season he lost 2.5 MPH on his fastball.

        It was just not predictable that Javy would become a below-replacement pitcher in 2010. He wasn’t below 4.8 WAR in his 3 seasons in Chicago.

        “Javy has NEVER pitched well in the postseason.”

        That’s a true statement, but 15 innings is not a sample size you can project anything off of.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          I don’t think it’s that outrageous to say Javy is pretty frequently like Ricky Nolasco – a guy who’s going to underperform his peripherals.

          That said, his 2010 below-replacement-level performance clearly came out of nowhere, even if you weren’t expecting him to be as good as in 2009.

      • Louis

        Just my opinion, but Javy vasquez is, was, and always will be a better pitcher than Carl pavano. His national league seasons were better than pavano’s as well. And javys definitly pitched at at least pavano’s level in the AL.

    • Ted Nelson

      “This redemption thing doesn’t seem to work out, just ask Javy.”

      Because one example is a great sample to base a rule on, right?

      • MannyGee

        I was gonna use Tino as the example here, but I guess Javy works…

        • pete

          tino was way old and way shitty by his second go-round. Pavano’s been a solid back-end pitcher the past two years.

        • Ted Nelson

          One or two examples just does not prove a rule. Today there is snow on the ground so every day there is snow on the ground. See why that is not logical?

          I don’t really get what you mean about Tino… Why did he need redemption? He was good his first go-round–gpt MVP votes 2 separate seasons–and pretty good his second go-round considering he was 37.

  • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

    After what happened with Cliff Lee, I didn’t think it was a bad idea to bring back Pavano. It could have been a good situation for both the Yanks and Pavano. The Yanks get the next best starter on the market after Lee and strengthen a weak rotation. Pavano gets a chance to redeem himself in New York and get paid well for that second chance. I think it’s too bad it didn’t happen. I felt confident it would have turned out well this time.

  • NJYankeeFan

    Cashman sure has some guts (though poor judgement)trying to bring that guy back. He’s been a pretty good pitcher the last few years and possibly could have been a solid #4 starter especially on a 1 year contract. Problem is if he got injured or started slowly, the vitriol he would have faced from Yankees fans would have been off the charts so I’m glad he had enough sense to go back to the Twins.
    In other news, looks like Wainwright needs TJ surgery. That pretty much finishes the Cards chances of contending this year so it might benefit the Yanks by making Carpenter or Westbrook available later in the season when the Cards are inevitably out of the race.

    • Mike

      I’m not sure Carpenter is the slam dunk everyone is looking for. He’s 35, owed 15 million per season over the next 3 years, can’t manage to stay healthy for extended periods of time, & has spent the duration of his career in a very weak NL central. I would only be interested if the asking price is very, very low. Problem is, I feel like the Cardinals are going to be looking for starters if Carpenter is unloaded. Especially with the Wainwright news. If I were Cashman, I would not be willing to deal one of the Killer B’s, only guys that project to be back end starters like Noesi, Phelps, or Warren.

      • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

        He’s owed $15 mil this year and has a $15 mil option for next year with a $1 mil buyout.

      • Ted Nelson

        “He’s 35, owed 15 million per season over the next 3 years”

        Where’d you see that? This is his last guaranteed year.
        http://www.baseball-reference......ch01.shtml

        “has spent the duration of his career in a very weak NL central”

        Again, where’d you come up with this? He’s had at least 28 starts 5 of the last 7 years, missing 2 consecutive seasons. Started at least 27 7 of the past 10. He hasn’t been a model of health, but the trend is towards health a whole lot more than towards injury.

        “has spent the duration of his career in a very weak NL central”

        Unless you have his splits by division, against good and bad hitters, or against good and bad offenses… this doesn’t mean too much.

        “Problem is, I feel like the Cardinals are going to be looking for starters if Carpenter is unloaded.”

        Asking price is an issue with any trade. The Yankees have very good minor league depth, so they are in a good position.

        Basically, Carpenter is a quality pitcher making a lot of money for a team that may fall out of contention and may be looking for money to re-sign its star and is 35… He could become very available at some point. His contract flexibility also works nicely for the Yanks. If they are in a similar position again next season they can keep him around as a placeholder. If they don’t need him they can trade him or pay him $1 mill to leave (his buyout is $1 mill).

        • Ted Nelson

          ““has spent the duration of his career in a very weak NL central”
          Again, where’d you come up with this? He’s had at least 28 starts 5 of the last 7 years, missing 2 consecutive seasons. Started at least 27 7 of the past 10. He hasn’t been a model of health, but the trend is towards health a whole lot more than towards injury.”

          Meant to quote the health bit at the top… “can’t manage to stay healthy for extended periods of time”

        • Mike

          “He hasn’t been a model of health, but the trend is towards health a whole lot more than towards injury.”

          Carpenter’s injury history over the last eight years:

          •2002 – Only pitched 73.1 innings due to shoulder problems.
          •2003 – Missed entire season after shoulder surgery.
          •2004 – Missed postseason after nerve problem in biceps.
          •2005 – Healthy.
          •2006 – 15-day DL with back injury.
          •2007 – Pitched only one game before injuring elbow and eventually undergoing Tommy John surgery, as well as another surgery on his elbow to trim bone spurs.
          •2008 – Pitched only 15.1 innings after returning from elbow surgeries.
          •2009 – Missed 30 games with oblique injury.
          Carpenter has missed most or all of four of the last eight seasons. He has had major surgery on both his pitching shoulder and his pitching elbow, and he turns 35 in April.

          Carpenter is an injury risk, plain and simple. I don’t know where you come up with the idea that the trend is towards health given his age & history. There also has to be some concern about a guy pitching in the AL East when he hasn’t done so since 2002…but we can agree to disagree on that one.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            He is a health risk, buuuuut

            2009 – Missed 30 games with oblique injury.
            You’re reading something wrong, because he pitched 28 games. Unless he was going to start 58 games… /Old Hoss’d

            I wouldn’t be concerned about him in the AL East, he’s quite elite. His injury risk is real, though.

          • Ted Nelson

            “I don’t know where you come up with the idea that the trend is towards health given his age & history.”

            5 of the past 7 years he’s started 28 MLB games or more. 70% healhty, 30% unhealthy… is the trend towards healthy or unhealthy?

            ” There also has to be some concern about a guy pitching in the AL East when he hasn’t done so since 2002…”

            If you look at his numbers against good offenses/batters or in inner-league play and draw that conclusion… we can agree to agree. If you just say “he pitches in a weak division so he can’t pitch in a strong division” with no evidence to back you up… we cannot agree on anything. Tim Lincecum and all the Giants starters pitch in a weak division, does that mean you don’t take any of them? Dan Haren pitched better in the AL West than NL West, does that mean every pitcher in the AL West is worse than every pitcher in the NL West?

            Main point is that Carpenter is about as likely to be available as any quality starting pitcher. There’s a chance his asking price will be relatively low since he’s 36 and well paid. 2012 being a team option also provides nice flexibility for a rich team like the Yankees with lots of prospects on the way up but short-term questions about their rotation. I definitely think this is a guy who needs to be on the Yankees radar.

          • Ted Nelson

            Basically, no matter how injury prone you think he is, over the past 7 seasons Carpenter has been 25.1 WAR. Or an average of 3.6 WAR per season. Certainly at 36 I don’t expect him to bounce back and have a 5-6 WAR season–though we’d probably know more either way by the time he’s available in a trade–but the Yankees only had one starter over 2.4 WAR. I’ll take an expected 3 (annualized) WAR at the right price and plug it into the 2 spot in the rotation.

    • Ted Nelson

      “Problem is if he got injured or started slowly, the vitriol he would have faced from Yankees fans would have been off the charts”

      You really think Cashman should make personnel decisions based on fan reaction?

      “That pretty much finishes the Cards chances of contending this year so it might benefit the Yanks by making Carpenter or Westbrook available later in the season when the Cards are inevitably out of the race.”

      Definitely hurts, but I wouldn’t put the nails in their coffin just yet.

      • MannyGee

        You really think Cashman should make personnel decisions based on fan reaction?

        sure he does… he reads NoMaas!

      • fire levine

        he should. in this particular case the reaction would have been so strong it would have become a major distraction

        • Ted Nelson

          “in this particular case the reaction would have been so strong it would have become a major distraction”

          If Pavano had come in, pitched well, gone say 15-9 it would have become a major disaster? It would have only become a major disaster if he had pitched poorly. If you expected him to pitch poorly there are other reasons not to give him $10 mill besides fan reaction. So performance and winning not only trump, but also drive fan reaction.

      • NJYankeeFan

        The brewers, reds and cubs all should be better than the Cards I would think.

        As for Pavano, I don’t think Cashman would be putting him in a good position to succeed because the pressure on him would be extraordinary because of his history with the Yanks is so bad. I don’t know how old you are but I remember Ed Whitson for a while was only pitched on the road.

        • Ted Nelson

          “The brewers, reds and cubs all should be better than the Cards I would think.”

          Should be is not will be. They finished 9 games ahead of the Brewers and 11 games ahead of the Cubs last season. Hard to count out a team with Pujols, Holliday, Molina, Rasmus, Berkman, Carpenter, Garcia, etc. A bit of good luck for them and bad luck for some other teams and they could easily be at least close enough where they’re not motivated to move their ace.

          I think Carpenter is one of the most likely quality pitchers to be available, but all I’m saying is that it’s not at all written in stone.

          “I don’t think Cashman would be putting him in a good position to succeed because the pressure on him would be extraordinary”

          Pavano was a free agent and would have been putting himself in that position. Clearly if he made that choice he would have been willing to deal with the “pressure.” When you’re pitching in front of tens of thousands to the best hitters in the world there’s always pressure. Was there not pressure when he went up against the Yankees in the 2009 ALDS and pitched 7 innings giving up 2 ERs? If he pitched well there would be no more pressure on him than on anyone else. Again if you think he’s going to stink and get booed, why are you guaranteeing him $10 mill? You’re only doing that if you think the chance of him stinking is relatively negligible.

    • Louis

      “when the cards are inevitably out of the race”
      – am I missing something here? Did they already trade Albert Pujols?

      • Ted Nelson

        I don’t think the Cards are out of it before the season even begins, but that’s not just about Pujols. 1 player only means so much in baseball. The Rangers never won over 73 games with A-Rod even though he was an 8 WAR player for them. The season after trading him they won 89 games.

  • YankeesJunkie

    The only reason that I would want Pavano back for is for a public execution at Yankee Stadium.

    JK

    Not really

  • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

    Is there any reason to think Pavano can have a third straight healthy season?

    • whozat

      That’s why they held the line at one year. If he couldn’t stay healthy, then fine, he’s gone at the end of the season.

    • pete

      Rafael Soriano.

      • pete

        I feel I should explain this – the concept of “due” is a logical fallacy; it’s something we feel, but it doesn’t play out in results

    • Ted Nelson

      Is there any reason not to if you haven’t researched the question enough to know the approximate answer?

    • MannyGee

      /AJ Burnett

  • Monteroisdinero

    PavaNO

    Liriano-Yes

    • pete

      there is nothing analogous about these two cases

      • Monteroisdinero

        No analogy implied. Don’t want Pavano. Would like a quality lefty and he happens to be on the same team. It has been a thread in the recent past.

        • pete

          ah, I see what you were saying

  • pete

    CC, Hughes, AJ, Pavano, Nova >> CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Garcia

    I don’t think anybody could argue reasonably against that point.

    • Ted Nelson

      I would argue that it is likely CC, Hughes, Pavano, AJ, Garcia >>> CC, Hughes, Pavano, AJ, Nova.

      Pavano and Garcia were not mutually exclusive. Garcia is in camp on a minor league deal.

      • pete

        I dunno if I agree with your assessment of Nova vs. Garcia, but either way, 2011 rotation with Pavano >> 2011 rotation without Pavano

  • Crashman

    All this time spent towards failing to sign Lee and Pavano, pathetic. Cashman needs to exit. I dont understand how we didn’t make an offer for Brandon Webb. Yes, he was injured – so was Colon, Mitre, and Garcia, and they are not better options.

    • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

      1. Mitre is already on the team and when was he injured? 3 years ago?
      2. Colon and Garcia are on minor league deals.

    • Ted Nelson

      Webb has pitched 4 innings in the past 2 seasons. Unless you’re a doctor who has examined all of them or a scout who has watched Webb throw recently, pretty hard to say he’s a better option than a guy who threw 157 innings last season. There’s also the small matter of Webb being guaranteed $3 mill and Garcia and Colon being on minor league deals that guarantee them no money.

  • Mike Myers

    I would have given pavono a chance…about 2 innings worth. I hope everyone realized with wainwright getting tommy john there is almost 0 chance we get carpenter now….thats the bad news of the day.

    • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

      Really? I see it as the opposite. Once they fall out of contention by June without their ace, they’ll have no need to keep Carpenter.

      • Mike Myers

        No need for him for a few months. But who knows what they will get in 2012 with wainwright. They have an option to use. I just cant see them taking a chance in 2012 without those 2 a possibly Pujols.

        • Ted Nelson

          I also think it’s the opposite. They have no reason to give Carpenter away–unless they’re desperate for money to re-sign Pujols and everyone knows it–but Carpenter is 36 this season. Picking up Carpenter’s 37 year old season option for $15 mill is a risk under any circumstances. They could easily get a package they feel makes their team better in the short and long-terms. Short-term maybe they get some depth and plug some holes (if Theriot doesn’t do much Nunez could have some value, for example, as well as one or more of the Yankees AAA starters) while also freeing up money, and long-term you can’t necessarily expect to get much from Carpenter from 2013, 2014 on so prospects would have a higher expected value.

          If they lose Pujols as a free agent and Wainwright gives them nothing in 2012… is it really worth keeping Carpenter around for his 37 year old season to probably field a mediocre team, or would you rebuild?

  • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

    I’m sorry, but no. Just no. It’s not like Pavano just sucked as a Yankee (a la Vazquez) or was just not a fan favorite. He straight up stole millions of dollars from the Yankees while he sat on the DL for four years.

    I know you can’t really make comparisons between baseball and real-world jobs, but it wouldn’t matter how good I was at my job, if I was out sick four out of five days a week, my company would fire me and not bring me back.

    Yes, it’s a moot point, but it disturbs me that it was even considered.

    • pete

      that, or he was just actually hurt and couldn’t do an extremely physically demanding job.

      • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

        And being able to stay healthy is part of the game. He wasn’t.

        • Ted Nelson

          That’s a pretty huge deviation from what you say above. You saw that he “stole money.” If he was legitimately hurt it’s pretty hard to argue that he “stole money.”

          If you got cancer and had to spend 4 years in the hospital would you then expect no employer to hire you because you were a liability to relapse and “steal money” from the company? If you got cancer on day 1 of a new job and fought it off missing a few years along the way, wouldn’t you try to go back to that company if that was your dream job?

          Your points about “stealing money” and “it disturbs me that it was even considered” both lie on a foundation of Pavano not really being hurt and faking or overstating his injuries. I have no idea whether he was really hurt or not, but if he was your points go out the window.

          • http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

            Yes, I do think it was a combination of actual injuries, fake/exaggerated injuries, and mentally not caring.

            I know most people here disagree with me, but oh well.

            • Ted Nelson

              I don’t disagree, I just have no idea and see no value in speculating. I see no reason to draw definitive conclusions about whether Cashman–who actually interacted with Pavano and his doctors, coaches, trainers, etc.–should have “even considered” Pavano based on my gut feeling about whether or not he was faking injuries when I’ve never talked to the man, have no medical degree, and never physically examined him in his first Yankee tenure even if I had a medical degree.

    • Thomas

      He straight up stole millions of dollars from the Yankees while he sat on the DL for four years.

      While the Yankees still had to pay Pavano, I suspect a large percentage of his contract was insured.

  • MannyGee

    guys, have some respect for your 2007 Opening Day Starter!

    jus saying is all

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    Would he have helped the team? probably.

    But I don’t think I could root for the guy. It was a disaster of a relationship, not fully his fault, but at least partly. I just cringe at the thought.

    The Yankees would have gotten less backlash if they hired Isiah Thomas to be the manager.

  • HolyGhostClaw

    Pavano’s still alive?!?!?!1

  • Yankee2123

    Even though Pavano is a yellow bellied sissy, Joe Torre’s clubhouse did nothing to welcome him back from his many injuries, and basically ostracized a guy who was making 10 mil a year, and who could have possibly helped the club. It’s right there in the Yankee Years.

    • Poopy Pants

      But Jeets is a true leader!?!?!?!

  • Sean C

    I would have taken Pavano on a one year deal. He’d have been better than some, if not most or all, of the other guys the Yanks signed this offseason to pitch at the back end of the rotation. Pavano would’ve been more expensive, but that doesn’t really matter for the Yankees, they couldve more than handled it.

  • AndrewYF

    Pavano’s a 3-WAR pitcher. The Yankees have exactly one person on their staff who exceeded that total in 2010.

    Then again, the Yankees only had one pitcher on their staff exceed that total last year, and they won 95 games and made it to Game 6 of the ALCS.

  • J. Scott

    As is said about a previously divorced couple who re-marry [one another]…

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    One big thumbs down to a Yankees – Pavano re-marriage.

  • Jerry

    I still find it amusing that there is so much hostility towards Cashman about Cliff Lee, I would have been pissed if the Yanks missed out on him based on the money, but they didn’t, Cashman’s job is to put the best deal on the table, he did, the player didn’t take it, not in his hands. I think a one year offer to Pavano was a good idea given the circumstances, the Yanks need to bring along some of their top end young talent a bit more slowly and Pavano would have been a good one year band-aid.

  • bonestock94

    It would’ve been funny to see him walk out the first time in Yankee stadium to deafening boos.

  • Yanko

    If Carl signs with the Yankees and then goes down with an injury, Cash gets murdered by the media. No one likes Carl around these parts, but the dude has pitched well enough to start behind CC. Yet, he has not had an injury in a few, so he maybe due. Props to Cash for not throwing a 2 year contract at him. CC, Pavano, Phil, AJ* is a heck of a 4 though….

  • Mister Delaware

    I have to imagine the Pavano shirtsey I gave to goodwill would have been available for a buyback had this happened. Would have welcomed it. Pavano > Nova/Garcia/Colon/Mitre/others.

  • Kurt

    To paraphrase a popular phrase, if you can’t learn from your past mistakes, you’re bound to repeat them. Even after Vasquez and Nick Johnson blew up in his face, Cashman tried to get more American Idle? Can Kevin Brown be far behind?

  • LEOLUCCA RANDISI

    If the Yankees would have signed pavano I think it would have been a good deal. It would have only been for a year and if he got hurt then we would have been in the same boat we are in now so what would it have mattered. it would have been a low risk high reward kind of signing.