Apr
01

Mailbag: Banuelos, Walk Year, Pitchers in the OF

By

Three questions this week and I tried to be concise with my answers, but I failed. Remember to use the Submit A Tip box in the sidebar to send in your submissions.

(AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Williard asks: Since spring training, Manny Banuelos has been praised highly by many writers and scouts. But what can we actually expect out of him in terms of ceiling and probability?

There’s no hype quite like New York hype, so sometimes it can be tough to read through the garbage and figure it what is and what isn’t true. I’m certainly guilty of over-hyping prospects, we all are. It comes with the territory, and there’s nothing we can really do about it.

As far as Banuelos, he certainly got a lot of exposure and generated a lot of buzz this spring, and the Yankees didn’t help matters by keeping him in big league camp until the very last day. The good news is that we were able to watch him pitch some in Spring Training, so we could see if the goods matched the reports. And yes, they did. Banuelos legitimately sits 92-94 with his fastball and generates that velocity with surprising ease for a dude on the wrong side of six foot. His curveball is progressing and at times it looked unhittable, and other times it was meh.

What makes Banuelos stand out is two things. One, he’s got a dynamite changeup, and that was on full display last month. That gives him a weapon to get out right-handed batters, and finding a way to neutralize batters of the opposite hand is a common obstacle for young pitchers. He’s already taken care of that. Two, the kid really does look like a veteran up there. Very poised, he’s always got the game face working, and he never seems to get overwhelmed. Granted, it was just Spring Training, but we’ve been hearing that about him since the day he signed.

Left-handers with that kind of velocity and a knockout secondary pitch are at worse, mid-rotation starters. Add in the makings of a strong curve, the willingness to throw strikes, and the ability to not crap his pants on the mound, and we have a true ace caliber pitcher. Banuelos isn’t a finished product even though the general consensus seems to be that he could hold his own in the majors right now; he still needs to refine that curveball and just work on command in general. But he’s legit, there’s true frontline potential and he should find his way into the Yankees rotation before long. There’s always risk, but having the control and changeup down already means his probability is much higher than most 20-year-olds.

Clark asks: Other than empirical evidence, is there any data that supports that players perform better in contract years?

The definitive study on contract years was done by Dayn Perry and can be found in Baseball Between The Numbers. I recommend reading the entire book because it’s incredibly informative, but Perry found that from 1976-2000, the top free agents tended to be about 10% more productive in their walk year that either the year before or the year after. To put numbers on it, the average WARP during a contract year during that time was 5.56. The average the year before was 5.08, and the year after it was … 5.08.

Perry notes that this has a lot to do with player aging and not just trying harder to land that big contract. The average age during the walk year was 31, which is pretty close to when a player starts leaving his prime and entering decline. Just under 38% of players in the study peaked during the walk year while 34% peaked the year before and just 28.3% peaked the year after. It’s not really a surprise that performance tends to decline after players land that contract; the players are simply get older.

There’s definitely a very real impact from players trying harder during their walk years – don’t we all work a little harder the month or two before our companies conduct performance reviews? – but there are other factors at play. It’s not all because of greed.

Oswalt played some outfield last year. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

Charley asks: So, I had this dream last night where Red Sox were playing the Yankees and they were tied in the bottom of the ninth. The Yankees had runners at 2nd and 3rd and Tito put 3 pitchers in the OF. A ball was hit to Beckett and he threw a laser to home plate. You think this could ever be a scenario; even just one pitcher in the OF to start the inning? Sounds like a Joe Maddon move.

True story. A few years ago I had a franchise going in MVP 2006 NCAA Baseball, and I was in Game Three of the best-of-three Super Regionals. So winner goes to the College World Series. I had a one-run lead in the ninth but there was a man on third and one out. Might have been bases loaded or first-and-third, I forget, but there was definitely a guy on third and one out. I wasn’t taking my regular center fielder out because he was my best player, but I put pitchers in left and right for this very reason. Granted, I cheated a little because they were two-way players capable of hitting, fielding, AND pitching, but still. Anyway, there was a fly ball to the right fielder, and he ended up throwing the ball to the backstop to allow the run to score. I ended up losing that game in extras, which sucked.

I can’t imagine any big league manager, even Joe Maddon, trying something like. I think the fear of injury (not necessarily the actual injury risk, just the fear of injury) is too great. It’s takes quite a bit of effort to throw a ball from the outfield to the plate, and you don’t want a pitcher to do that without properly warming up. Plus throwing mechanics for pitchers and outfielders are different. It would be a ballsy move, and I think I’d prefer to take my chances with a real outfielder instead of take a pitcher out of his comfort zone. But that’s just me.

Categories : Mailbag

15 Comments»

  1. Ted Nelson says:

    Good analysis on Banuelos.

    I haven’t read the book or the study, but how does Perry define “the top free agents?”

    “Plus throwing mechanics for pitchers and outfielders are different.”

    Not saying I put a pitcher in the OF, but most pitchers do throw long-toss.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      He just called them “212 prominent free agents” selected from those years. By no means is it the be all, end all piece of walk years, but it’s the best we have right now.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        The thing that struck me–again having no idea about his study–is that teams tend to overrate recent performance in free agency. So the “top free agents” in terms of contract value are usually going to be guys coming off good years. So in those cases it could be luck rather than effort on the players’ part (very hard to differentiate in an objective way, of course), and just a systemic problem on the organizations’ end. It’s very likely Perry addressed this in his study and tried to control for it, it’s just where the “top free agents” part led me.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          It’s not just the team, fans do it too. We all want to think the guy just figured something out and turned the corner…

          • Ted Nelson says:

            For sure. And of course there is definitely an argument for generally weighting the most recent season’s performance a bit higher than previous seasons. I’m just wondering if this plays into the study’s results… i.e. the good season causes the status as a “top free agent” rather than the status as a “top free agent” causing the good season enough of the time that the findings aren’t very meaningful. I’m just not sure about limiting the sample to “top free agents”… both how he does that and whether he actually should do that.

  2. Avi says:

    Re: Pitchers in the outfield, I can envision two scenarios where an SP gets put in the field.

    1) An expendable athletic guy like Kyle Lohse past the 13th inning (happened in that game against Mets, could happen any time LaRussa gets drunk).

    2) Dusty Baker putting former two-way star Mike Leake.

  3. pete says:

    I pitched in high school, and my arm felt, at worse, a little sore after throwing 100+ pitches, but usually just tired. Every single time I made a throw from the outfield, though, whether it was to second, third, home, or just a cutoff man on a single, I threw my arm out.

  4. Opus says:

    Davey Johnson used Roger McDowell and Jesse Orosco in the outfield in a wild game against the Reds in 1986. It went into extra innings after Dave Parker dropped the final out, allowing two runs to score. Ray Knight was ejected after fighting with a Reds bench player and Davey only had 7 fielders to use. He moved Gary Carter to third base and had Orosco and McDowell switch between pitcher and right field. The game ended after a 3 run homer by Howard Johnson in the 14th and McDowell was on the mound to get the last out.

    Davey said he tried it because he’d seen Whitey Herzog do it with Todd Worrell and another left reliever.

  5. mike says:

    I remember ( or think I do as I was a small kid….) a time when Billy Martin did it for a game involving his bringing into the game someone to face one batter, and I can remember the announcers wondering if Martin would put the soon-to-come-back pitcher at 1B or LF for the one batter he wasn’t going to face ( I think he went to left) – so apparently the announcers had a feeling as to what he was going to do as he likely had done it before.

    I have tried to research it one or twice in the past as i thought it was a brilliant move- but again my mind just misremember…

  6. the Other Steve S. says:

    Check out some highlights of Rick Ankiel throwing home from the OF. Talk about a laser. He’s still got the 100mph arm, and he knows it.

  7. Jay T says:

    One other factor to consider with ManBan, his mechanics. They are almost flawless, so he can constantly repeat his motion. Never say never with arm injuries but he is not a candidate for one. That’s what makes him special.

  8. er says:

    oh yea I remember the yankees putting ron guidry in cf one night In the early 80′s.

  9. thurman's stache says:

    Guidry was in CF for the continuation of the Pine Tar game.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....1983.shtml

  10. king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

    mmm…the Cards or one of those west coast NL teams put a pitcher in the OF last year. It was a reliever who faced the first batter, then went to LF while another pitcher came in to face the second batter, then he came back to the mound to face the third. I thought it was genius, but you burn an OF. Is Joba getting a break from Logan worth swapping Swisher for Jones? On the other hand, would you ever put Joba in right???

  11. Alex says:

    Roy Oswalt started an inning in the OF for Philly when the game went to extras, because Howard was ejected and Ibanez had to play first. Oswalt went on to catch a fly ball, but then struck out to end the game.

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