On hit No. 3000 and owing taxes
ByChristian Lopez found himself a lucky guy on Saturday afternoon. His tickets were a gift, and he found himself in the right spot as Derek Jeter improbably and majestically launched a home run into the left field seats for his 3000th career hit. The ball — a potential $200,000 lottery ticket that could help pay off Lopez’s $100,000 student loans — was his.
Of course, Lopez decided instead to do what he felt was the right thing. He gave the ball back to Derek Jeter in exchange for some signed balls, bats and jerseys and four season tickets in the Champions Suites. Now, as The Times noted last night, he probably owes taxes on those items.
“There’s different ways the IRS could try to characterize a ball caught by a fan in the stands,” Andrew D. Appleby, a tax lawyer who specializes in prized baseballs, said to The Times. “But when the Yankees give him all those things, it’s much more clear-cut that he owes taxes on what they give him.”
Now, this story has made the rounds today, and people are outraged! How could the Yankees let Lopez incur more debt for his generosity? Now, of course, it’s not that simple; when it comes to the tax code, it never is. Lopez would have owed taxes on the any amount of money he received from the ball, and the Yankees can certainly cover Lopez’s taxes as well. Second, if the items given to Lopez from the club are gifts — given out of generosity and not because Lopez wanted them in exchange — he wouldn’t be taxed on them. The IRS would bill him for the jerseys and balls but not the seats.
Ultimately, the story isn’t as scandalous as it has been made out to be today. The Yanks could cover Lopez’s taxes or he’ll owe less than is being reported or he’s just paying taxes he otherwise would have owed had he chosen to sell the ball. Such are the pitfalls of winning the lottery.
But the story still got me thinking: What would I do had I caught the lucky Number 3000? As powerful as karma — or at least the good feelings associated with it — might be, it’s hard to resist the allure of easy money. And so let me open the floor to you. What would you do? Be honest.
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The Mason Williams Watch
I would be nice and charge him for one day of work. 15MM/162 = $92,592. That seems fair.
That would be the minimum of what I’d ask DJ to fork over. Ive got just under 50k in student loans and a mortgage. You best believe I’m selling that ball , preferably to DJ.
someone needs to post an article addressing the hypocrisy of the national media in their attempt to villify Jeter (and Jeter alone) for not going to ASG.
I don’t feel the need to validate that stupid argument really. Writing about it only serves to give it more attention.
The only issue with the Yankees giving him money to cover the taxes is that that money could potentially be counted as income – thus leading to more taxes!
There’s a way to avoid that called a tax gross up. Basically, if the Yanks wanted to pay him $100 and wanted to pay his taxes, they would just pay him $100 + money to cover the marginal tax rate. If it’s 25 percent, they would pay him $133.33. He would owe taxes on that total and still walk away with $100.
100k in student loans ….
Lopez could be living debt free right now. The taxes on the seats and merchadise are a pittance to what he’s likely going to shell out in INTEREST alone on that debt. This story is just bad. I wish he had someone with some brains and foresight in the room.
DJ is blameless. I just wonder if the Yanks aren’t wishing right now that lopez had tried to protect himself better than he did. Its lopez who’s about to get ridiculed .
If only Jeter had smashed #3,000 into monument park a la A-Rod. Then this conflict wouldn’t exist.
Whole damn media is pissed they can’t kiss jeter’s ass. Also, the idea that the Yanks swindled the kid for the ball is just dumb.
I would give the ball right to Jeter. Why should I keep it? Sure, something like that can fetch a lot of money but as Lopez has stated, Jeter worked hard to get that 3000th hit. Who am I to take that away from him?
It’s about doing the right thing. Thankfully, Lopez took that route.
I will never understand why anyone would try to sell the ball. Greed is disgusting (and not “good,” as Gordon Gekko believes.)
I agree for the most part, but I would be more hesitant if I thought the Yankees were going to be scrooges about giving the ball pack, but $44,000 worth in tickets and crap is pretty damn good. If I were I would be selling those tickets on stub hub and start making some cash. If he is lucky maybe he got some playoff tickets because those will go for a pretty penny as well. Honestly, it is up to the person to do what they please with the ball, but I would have handed it back for the stuff that he got fairly quickly. IMO, he did something that was win-win, no one is going to hate on him for giving the ball back and he got a lot valuable stuff that he can get quite a bit of money on.
I voted to give it to Jeter. That was actually the first thought that ran through my mind when the ball landed in the seats.
Funny thing is… what if it were Ichiro’s 3,000th hit, or Pudge, or Damon? For all the reasons I’d return the ball to Jeter, I’m not sure I wouldn’t be a complete hypocrite and sell the ball hit by any of those guys.
That’s the interesting thing to me… take out the fact that I’ve followed and rooted for Derek for the last 15 years. What would I do for a guy I’m more ambivalent about (perhaps a guy like Biggio)?
Well if he sold the ball, at least he would have some money to pay for the taxes.
Now he has to resort to selling the seats on RAB Tickets for below market price.
Still better than $0.
This is the way that I look at it.
If Lopez wanted to give it to Jeter for free because he is a big fan of his, he should have given it to him until one day the Jeter family decides to sell it and it should then revert back to his family.
The Jeter’s have more money than they could ever spend for generations so why should the family be able to sell the ball in 35 years for another $1MM.
However, since Christian did not do this and Jeter had allocated $250K to pay for it, then I feel that Derek Jeter should take half of his All Star bonus, yes $250K and donate it to the family of Shannon Stone who died trying to catch that ball in Texas last week.
That would be a noble jester but will never happen.
Any true Yankee fan would give that ball back to it’s rightful owner and ask nothing back in return.
Wouldn’t a “True Yankee Fan©” just keep the ball to remember the day?
Absolutely not. It’s Jeter’s ball and it should be given back to him with nothing asked in return. Any other option is dishonorable.
Maybe a True Yankee Fan© would act like the Yankees and try to maximize his profits.
Insane. The ball is not Jeter’s.
I respect that you would give it to Jeter, but it certainly isn’t “wrong” to keep it. It’s no different from any other foul ball or Home run. Belongs to the person who caught it.
Also, people are acting like Jeter has worked for free all these year with the “he earned the ball” argument. No, he earned about $250M.
Yup. He earned the 3000 hits, and he’s got the 3000(+) hits (and the money and everything else). He didn’t earn ownership of that baseball.
For those saying that Jeter worked hard to get that 3000th hit. He has also will have made $256 million over the course of his career. So I would think that a man in 100K debt giving Jeter the ball for free is a bit much.
I definitely give it back, but I’d probably ask for a job with the Yankees. If one wasn’t available, I’d ask them to cover my loans and call it a day. Oh, and some autographs. And I’d make them bother Pettitte to write me a handwritten letter saying how awesome I am, or something. ;P
That was exactly what I was thinking, a job with with some sort of guaranteed contract would probably be the best thing you could gain long term. I doubt the Yankees would ever offer money straight up, at least they wouldn’t do it publicly. If I couldn’t get any of that I would want season tickets for life, doesn’t have to be legends seats, could be where I caught it.
Btw I was about 50 feet from where the ball landed, anyone else closer?
“I definitely give it back, but I’d probably ask for a job with the Yankees. If one wasn’t available, I’d ask them to cover my loans and call it a day.”
Offering the ball back in exchange for a job or money isn’t ‘giving it back.’ Kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.
You ask for a job, they say no. You ask for them to cover your loans, they say no. Do you hand over the ball anyway, with zero promise of any reward?
I get what you’re saying, but honestly I’d probably give it back. Can’t say for sure, but likely. I just meant some people wanted to keep the ball for themselves or sell it and I’m not really that interested in doing that.
But would you give it back with zero promise of reward, like this guy did?
I don’t ask again to attack you in particular, I just think this is interesting… I think there are a lot of people out there saying they’d give it back that really wouldn’t when it comes down to it. This guy gave the ball back in a heartbeat, with no thought of reward. He caught the ball, was whisked away by security, and said ‘here, it’s Jeter’s, give it to him.’ No ‘I’d love a job with the Yankees’ and no ‘it’d be great if someone could pay-off my loans’ and no ‘gee it’d be nice if I gave the ball to Jeter and then he or the Yanks did me a solid.’ Just “here you go, it’s his.”
You’re holding a lottery ticket in your hands. You figure it’s gotta be worth maybe a couple of hundred thousand dollars. You just handing that over to the guy with $200 million dollars, for nothing?
Honestly… I think that guy is a super nice guy, but I can’t imagine I’d have done the same thing. That’s a TON of money to just hand over to someone. That’s a college fund for your kids, that’s paying off your own loans, that’s putting down a payment on a house and having a few years of mortgage payments sitting there in a bank account.
I think it’s hard to look at this objectively, now that we know that the Yanks gave this guy a lot of stuff as a reward, but in that moment, without time to think about the situation and having no idea that there’s any reward for being “nice”*, I think an overwhelming majority of people would keep the ball and see what it could do for them, whether they think that’s what they’d do or not.
*Or dumb, depending on your point of view, of course.
I get what you’re saying and I know you weren’t trying to attack me. I was actually out and missed the actual 3000th hit when it happened – by the time I was back and caught up on everything the game was almost over – so I don’t have the “I would do THIS” reaction from the moment itself. But no, I don’t think I could be like that guy where I’d just hand it over with nothing. I remember thinking he was a really nice guy, but completely batshit crazy.
On the other hand, I think you have to bet your ass that the Yankees had employees everywhere in the Stadium, and weren’t going to let anyone who caught the ball just leave without trying to get it back.
“I think you have to bet your ass that the Yankees had employees everywhere in the Stadium, and weren’t going to let anyone who caught the ball just leave without trying to get it back.”
Yeah, for sure. Even then, though, I’m not sure I’m making that deal. If they offered me what they gave this guy – merchandise and tickets – I’d probably say “thanks but no thanks.” If you handed me that much money there’s no way in hell that’s what I’d be spending it on.
You just wrote up the definitive post of the thread.
Money and fandom don’t always mix well , but lopez found himself in a situation where he could have had both and still have done the “right” thing for himself and DJ.
From my p.o.v, only DJ made out well from a situation in which he had no control over. Man lives a charmed life.
I definitely give it back …
But it seems like you would give it thought and negotiate. Some on this board have little concept what its like in the real world when there’s debt hanging over ones head. At the end of thr day, if you don’t pay the bills, the lights get shut off.
I agree 100%. That was what I told all my family when we were talking about what we’d ask for. It’s really all I’d ask for in terms of compensation…especially if your favorite team is the Yankees.
As mentioned in the post, that the tickets and the rest was a gift from the Yankees. It was it is firmly established on TV that Christian asked for nothing at all for the ball. You can’t get taxed on receiving gifts, especially ones that were not requested. If the gift giver gives more than $10,000 worth of cash or materials, then the gift giver has to pay some taxes AFAIK.
The whole article in the Times is crap, another dig at the Yankees and DJ.
It’s just stupid that he gave up the ball, when he had that much debt. He mentioned that maybe family members can help him out. Why the hell would any family member want to help him out, when he got more money than he needed and threw it away? There is Yankee pride and what not, but when you are in debt, you are in debt, and he threw away a golden chance to get out of debt. He’s going to come out of this looking like an idiot, gf who got him those tickets probably dumps him too.
Derek is going to take care of everything for this kid. I am guessing he will pay off the kids debts and be his friend for life, and we will never hear about it. If you ever have the opportunity to interact with Derek, you do the honorable thing just as he would.
Yep. This kid did the honorable thing and so will Jeter. Derek Jeter- True Yankee. Christian Lopez- True Yankee.
http://tinyurl.com/5tskq9k
Amazing how you guys can predict the future.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he paid off the money, b/c to Jeter $10K is the equivalent of about $10 to the rest of us.
But the idea that Derek Jeter and this guy are going to be “friends for life” is so over-the-top hilarious I don’t even know what to say.
I’d give it back to Jeter in exchange for him promising not to pick up his player option in 2014
I would give it back, for sure. I just think it would be unfair to keep it from him, especially that big of a milestone. I would definitely ask for payments for my student loans because God knows I could use some help with them, like most people
That’s selling it. Asking for money in exchange for giving it back is selling it or at least offering to. What if they refused your request for loan payments? Would you still give it back?
I meant if they asked me if I wanted something that’s what I’d say. If they refused than okay, its not a big deal to me, personally. It would be cool just to say “hey I caught a piece of history”
There seem to be a lot of very generous people who would give away their prized possession*.
*(for a generous reward)
Just amazing that the 3000th hit was a HR and there is a money ball involved. Also that of the 5 hits in one game, the HR was the second hit. An incredible longshot in every way. I was surprised last year to see one of DJ’s gold gloves for sale at Mickey Mantle’s sports bar on CPS-35K IIRC. Jeets has got tons of stuff to sell. I agree that he will take care of young Mr. Lopez.
I would hire Scott Boras and tell him to tell them my important message “Go Fuck Yourselves, I dont pay taxes”
Wow, hes got four champs seats to every game and a bunch of one of a kind merchandise. Where is he ever goin to raise the money to pay the taxes? Even if he doesn’t want to sell any of it, he can donate a few games to boys and girls club or someone and balance the taxes via write off. At least that’s what I would do.
I just called up the irs ans cursed out those ignorant fucks
I consider myself a baseball fanatic, someone with a love affair with the game – probably in some ways because it is such a father-son connection for me or maybe because I have always been enamored with the tradition, the statistics, etc. etc. Heck I’ve been to Cooperstown about 15 times (living 4 hours away). That being said I get constant reminders of what big business baseball is – whether I am paying $35 to park or shelling out $150 in concessions for the kids (that $5 bottle of water); or maybe it was the instant commercials on YES and 880 for DJ3k merchandise after the hit. With that as much as I respect his decision (because it was his decision), one word came to mind…”sucker”.
Personally I keep paying for tickets, parking, etc. because I love the game and the Yankees so I have no one to blame but myself. But if that ball fell in my lap, I’m not giving it up for free. I would actually loan it to the baseball hall of fame for a period of time until I either 1) needed the money or 2) felt like holding onto to it even further would hurt the value tremendously.
Whoever said giving the money to the family of Shannon Stone is stupid. If anyone should be doing anything about that, it’s the Rangers. The Yankees, or Jeter have nothing to do with that. And besides, money isn’t gonna bring that kids dad back. I frickin’ hate it when people have “foundations” and “charities” when loved ones die. Aside from funeral costs, its merely hush money to satisfy the greed their loved ones have.
Very true. I’m assuming his kid didn’t want to go to college anyway.
Hire Scott Boras and let him take care of it from there.
I think this all depends on perspective. Yes, he has huge student loans. But he’s only 23 and he has a job and a girlfried. He’s likely pretty carefree right now (whether he SHOULD feel carefree is another story). He’s probably making minimum required payments and 30 years of paying off loans at this rate doesn’t feel like THAT big of deal to him…right now.
Now, if he were 29 with some grad school loans piled on top of the college loans, a wife, dreams of owning home not “someday” but “soon”, and a kid on the way… he’d have a completely different perspective on the whole matter.
Not saying he would be a prick, but he would probably ask the Yanks for cold hard cash rather than accepting in-kind gifts.
Neither stance is particularly wrong in my book. Just depends on where one is in life.
Sorry but you can’t trivialize 100k debt especially in light of the fact that lopez works as a Verizon rep. Not knocking his job, but that don’t pay well enough to live care free.
You’re totally right. He should not sneeze at a debt level that is that high. But my point was not about what he should think, but rather what he is probably thinking. As wrong as it maybe, it is understandable for a 23 year old to trivialize 100K in debt.
That debt is probably the only major financial concern in his life right now, and it manifests itself in small minimal monthly payments that he can more than cover on the basis of his job with Verizon.
My point is that he, like many unmarried, young, child free young men probably doesn’t think he needs the money he could make from selling Jeter’s ball. If this is the case, that doesn’t mean he’s right.
It’s just given his age, he probably doesn’t recognize the gravity of his debt. I haven’t met many gainfully employed 23 year olds who are worried about their college loans if they can meet their minimum payment requirements.
Let’s say that it is easy to establish the market value of that ball at $200,000. If it’s true that someone catching a valuable ball owes income taxes on the value received, then Lopez owes taxes to the IRS on $200,000 of additional income. If you earn taxable income of $200,000 in a tax year, you can’t avoid the taxes simply because you give your $200,000 earned income away (unless you give it to an IRS-approved charitable institution). So, what does this mean? It means the Federal government is even a lot worse than everybody already thought.
Nice try to rope politics into the thread.
Unfortunately for you, the IRS has already ruled that if you catch a baseball at a game and give it right back, it’s not a taxable event.
Rod, LaDoosh here, does he actually owe tax on the ball or is it because of the “gifts” the Yankees exchanged (all having clear and established values) triggering the burden. If he just put the ball in a safe deposit box and forgot about it, I don’t think tax burden is created until his estate sold the ball after his death.
I would sell it without a doubt. I WOULD offer Jeter the first opportunity to buy it from me at market value, and if it wasn’t important enough to him to buy it, I’d happily sell it to someone else.
st00pid
The accomplishment (3000 hits) is Jeter’s. The ball, however, is Lopez’s. Those are the rules. The ball NEVER belonged to Jeter and was never in his possession.
Lopez did what he felt was right. He gave his property, the ball, to Jeter. In doing so, Jeter accepted an item valued upwards of $250,000. So my question is if Lopez is going to be taxed on items the Yankees gave him, why won’t Jeter also be taxed on the item Lopez gave him?
Yes, and so if he got a good lawyer and challenged why he is taxed, the answer would probably be “you have gained a valuable asset, traded it for other valuable assets, and need to account for this windfall.” If I strike gold in my back yard, is the tax accounting consistent? If I find valuable fossels on my property, is the tax accounting consistent? If the answers are yes, you will lose, if not, you may have a chance.
So then, why is Jeter not taxed? Ridiculously great question…but does Jeter get any value in the ball itself? Won’t it go to Cooperstown? If it goes for free, he will not pay taxes, but if he charged Cooperstown a boatload of money for it, then Yes! As soon as he sells it for a profit (the whole price since he paid nothing for it), he does have to report it to the IRS.
I would simply say “I am a lifelong Yankee fan, do not want to profit from my good fortune and know that this ball is merely in my possession, it never was and never will be owned by me, but I simply need to consult with my accountant to ensure I can get this to where it needs to be without resulting in any personal tax liability.”
\Next morning you cut a deal, accountant present, and simply agree that whatever they want to give you would be great in addition to tax coverage. They will certainly agree and cover your downside.
Throw it back.
you have to treat this like business, maybe he has to sell 1 or 2 of his 4 season tickets and/or one of the jerseys to pay the tax burden, he still keeps everything else…
I would demand a sexy, sexy night with Laura Posada.