Rays smack Colon around as Yanks lose again

Nova, Betances dominate for SWB and Trenton
Mailbag: A-Rod, Rehab, Waiver Deals, Expansion

You know things aren’t going well when Bartday sucks. The Yankees lost their series opener to the Rays because the couldn’t hit or pitch, and that pretty much tells you everything you need to know. Thursday’s game was about as uninteresting as losses get.

Death by Zobrist.

Bad Bartolo

For the first time all year, Bartolo Colon got absolutely rocked. Just about every ball in play was hard hit, so it’s not a surprise that he gave up ten hits in 5.2 IP. After walking just 18 men all year, Colon walked four in this game, including John Jaso and his sub-.300 OBP twice. His velocity was fine but his command wasn’t, and he wasn’t getting any help with pitches at the corner. It was the first time we’ve seen Bartolo be really helpless on the mound, when he had absolutely nothing working and the hitters were all over him. Considering it’s July, that’s not too bad. Shake it off and do better the next time, Bart.


We’ve seen this game before, right? Do I really have to recap it? The Yankees had men on the corners with one out in the first, but didn’t score. Then they had men at second and third with one out in the second, but didn’t score. Jeff Niemann then retired ten of the next eleven men he faced before Robinson Cano hit a solo homer with two outs in the sixth. The Yankees were down by five at that point, so it didn’t matter. Niemann escaped those first two innings unscathed, then completely shut the Yankees down through the next five-plus innings. Stop me if you’re heard that before.

Right in there for #2,998.

Two Away

Derek Jeter wasted no time continuing his pursuit of 3,000 career hits, doubling to center on Niemann’s first pitch of the game. It was his third straight game with a double, the first time he’s had an extra base hit in three consecutive games since late-May of last season. Jeter didn’t hit the ball out of the infield in any of his other four at-bats, but he is hardly the only one to blame for the lack of offense. The Cap’n is two hits away from the milestone, and he better do it tomorrow, when I’ll be at the game.


It’s good to know the Yankees have Hector Noesi around for important situations like this game. Those 3.1 scoreless innings were really, really important, and winning takes priority, right? Seriously, please just send the kind to the minors so he can start while some veteran schmuck sits in the bullpen for two weeks between low-leverage relief appearances. This is ridiculous.

Mark Teixeira drew two walks but he’s one hitless at-bat away from a sub-.240 batting average. Russell Martin, Brett Gardner, and Jorge Posada each had a hit, and Cano had two. That’s pretty much it, the trio of Curtis Granderson, Alex Rodriguez, and Nick Swisher went a combined 0-for-12 with five strikeouts.

The Yankees have now lost two in a row and four of their last five since that seven-game winning streak. They’ve scored three or fewer runs in each of those losses.

WPA Graph & Box Score

MLB.com has the box score and video, FanGraphs the nerd score.

Up Next

The second game of this four-game series will be played Friday night, when Freddy Garcia gives it a go against rookie Jeremy Hellickson.

Nova, Betances dominate for SWB and Trenton
Mailbag: A-Rod, Rehab, Waiver Deals, Expansion
  • ItsATarp


    • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat


    • Frank is Tanked

      So now Colon gets a cute name, huh? When he breaks like a pumpkin on November 1st, how long will the cutesey names last?

      • http://riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Who cares about November 1st? That’s a perfect time for him to break down as far as I’m concerned. The World Series ends in October this year.

        Seriously, of all the dates you could have picked, that’s the one you went with?

        • Frank is Tanked

          The day after Halloween. Pumpkins smash easily when they’re rotting.

          Okay, run Colon into the ground. That can just as easily happen in the pen. They did start him there this year. And with Hughes in the rotation, he’ll get regular work. Why does Nova get the benefit of the doubt in April but not July?

          Between Nova, Noesi, then Warren and Phelps, then Yankees need to be giving these kids innings. Trusting Ponson in 2008 because IPK had a rough start was just as myopic.

          • mbonzo

            Unlike Colon, Ponson didn’t lead the league in xFIP after 3 months of baseball. That could be one reason why that idiot Girardi keeps playing him, because he’s been one of the best starting ptichers i 2011. Why don’t you ask Girardi to get rid of CC when he gives up 5 runs in 5.2 IP? I think you’re forgetting that Colon used to be one of the most dominant pitchers in the game before his injuries, now that he’s healed he’s back to dominating. Everyone has their weak starts, but you have to have the memory of a goldfish to not remember why he’s ranks so high statistically. Have seen him pitch before tonight? Serious question.

            • Frank is Tanked

              At which point do we say Colon doesn’t have it any more? How many starts of him spitting the bit? Three? Five? Ten?

              The point on Ponson was with how much berth the Yankees gave him. For him to have more starts in one year than Kennedy’s Yankee career is disgusting on every level. Colon may not be that bad, but he’s also not under team control next year or for five more years. They need to invest in the resources they have, not try to pump up value on guy with no long-term benefits.

              If anything, now is the time to trade Colon and/or Garcia.

              • David, Jr.

                Funny. You weren’t saying this stuff after Bart’s previous start, or most of his starts all year, for that matter.

              • Yank The Frank

                If you need to put a number on it, I would say 5 in a row. Definitly not 1.

                • Frank is Tanked

                  I say 3. Then you move him to the pen. You do not want to depend on Colon being healthy all year. There’s no precedent for it.

              • Jim S

                You are the most reactionary Yankees fan on these boards right now, and that’s saying a lot.

                IT WAS ONE START.

                • Frank is Tanked

                  The guy hasn’t thrown this many innings in how many years? When do you cut bait?

                  • Ted Nelson

                    The guy has been a very good starting pitcher for the New York Yankees… when are you going to learn about baseball?

                    • Frank is Tanked

                      Seriously? Three months means more to you than the last three years?

                    • Ted Nelson

                      YES! Because he’s pitched for the Yankees for the last 3 months, and not the last 3 years.

                      Because the last 3 months have been part of this season.

                    • Frank is Tanked

                      And there you just lost all credibility.

                    • jsbrendog

                      dude, you never had any.

                    • Frank is Tanked

                      I’m still waiting for you to tell me the last HoF starter the Yankees have developed.




                    • Ted Nelson

                      Is developing a HOF starter a useful measure of organizational competence? I’m pretty sure it’s not.

              • jsbrendog


              • Ted Nelson

                It’s not that Colon “isn’t that bad.” He’s flat out very good. One bad start is definitely not enough to change that. How ignorant are you? Did you really already forget about how many people decided Gardner, Swisher, and Jorge were all done forever after rough starts?

                Kennedy wasn’t given away. He was traded in a package for Curtis Granderson: the best CF in the AL so far this season. Granderson has more fWAR this season than IPK has this season and last combined.

                They aren’t trying to pump up Colon’s value… they are trying to win baseball games. Trying to get into the playoffs and then win the World Series. As the second best pitcher in their rotation, Colon is a big part of that.

                • Frank is Tanked

                  Until Colon utterly breaks down. What’s the backup plan when that happens? They’re going to throw Nova into the middle of a pennant race? Or Gordon?

                  There’s also the problem with relying on a never has-been like Hughes and a junkballer like Garcia. This rotation is a house of cards. Burnett sucks for his price.

                  They’re also paying for Granderson’s value. They also held Joba and Hughes out of that trade (and the one for Haren). The Yankees have no frickin’ clue. This season – from Colon to Garcia to Gordon – shows that. If they’re not willing to give the kids a chance now, when will they?

                  • Ted Nelson

                    “Until Colon utterly breaks down. What’s the backup plan when that happens? They’re going to throw Nova into the middle of a pennant race?”

                    Your argument is that Nova is better than Colon… yet you think having Nova as a back-up plan is a bad thing?

                    I really hope you are a 10 year old kid and not as stupid as you come across in your comments.

                    “If they’re not willing to give the kids a chance now, when will they?”

                    They are giving the kids a change you buffoon. Phil Hughes just turned 25 two weeks ago… he is a kid. Nunez is a kid. Joba is a kid. Cervelli is a kid. Nova and Noesi are both kids who have gotten plenty of MLB innings this season. Cano and Gardner are both starters who the Yankees gave a chance.

                    What price are they paying for Granderson? Do you not realize his fWAR is higher than IPK, AJax, AND Coke’s combined fWARs?

                    “They also held Joba and Hughes out of that trade (and the one for Haren).”

                    Because you were involved in the negotiations? Or because everything you read under ESPN.com’s “rumors” section is not actually a rumor and really a cold, hard fact?

                    “The Yankees have no frickin’ clue.”

                    Yet they make the playoffs every season and have a top 5-10 farm system in baseball. Yet they have the second best record in the AL so far this season. Great point. You know everything and the Yankees are a bunch of morons.

                    • Frank is Tanked

                      Hmm, let’s see. Hughes sucks. He’s at least 20% worse than league average in over 60 career starts. Joba is finished. Nunez rides pine. Cervelli can’t catch or hit. Nova is dominating in AAA. And Noesi has 25 innings to his credit this year.

                      Great argument.

                      As for Haren and Oswalt, Joba and Hughes had more value then than anything those teams got in return, especially if packaged with Montero who will never see regular playing time in the Bronx.

                      Spending $200 Million every year certainly helps in making the playoffs. Their starting infield makes more than half the teams in baseball. The problem is October baseball is about talent, not dollars. It’s why they’ve gone home early 9 of the last ten years.

          • jsbrendog

            dude are you kidding me? did you see that statistic they put up yesterday? bartolo colon is one of only 3 pitchers in BASEBALL to have struck out at least 8 and walked 2 or less in i believe every start

            • Frank is Tanked

              You mean like last night?

              • Jim S

                One. Fucking Start. You’re the guy touting Hughes’ whole career over his last outing, and now you want to blast ONE FUCKING START.

                Good day sir, I won’t be talking to you anymore.

          • David, Jr.

            They likely saw IPK as somebody with value, but not somebody that they saw as a core future Yankee.

            As to whether that was correct or not, would you trade Granderson in a deal right now where IPK was the key piece coming back? I know I wouldn’t.

            • Frank is Tanked

              It’s not about that deal. It’s about how the Yankees develop and evaluate their talent. Kennedy got less of a chance than Ponson. The same is happening now with Nova and Noesi. So if they trade both for Hafner and Bell, we should ignore the process?

              • Ted Nelson

                If Hafner and Bell produce 4.8 fWAR in just over half a season like Granderson has… you don’t ignore the process, you applaud it.

                You still keep ignoring that IPK got hurt. He had a change… he was AWFUL (ERA of 8) and he was hurt. They didn’t give him away. They traded a mid-rotation starter and useful CFer and lefty reliever/fringe starter for one of the best CF in baseball.

                Clearly you are not against trades, since you say they should have traded Jesus by now.

  • Mike c

    Is it just me or do the Yankees always look lame after travel days?

    • Frank is Tanked

      No greenies.

  • http://procrastinationperfected.tumblr.com/ BigDavey88

    As long as Tex keeps hitting homers, drawing walks and scoring runners I’m happy, but what is the deal with his batting average? It’s rather off-putting when your three hitter is hanging around .240.

    • Thomas Cassidy

      The shift has a lot to do with it, I believe. But it really is irritating. He hits a home run or pops the ball up, it’s all he does when he puts the ball in play it seems like.

    • ItsATarp

      his BABIP is severely lower than his career numbers….even much lower than it was last year

    • Brooklyn Ed

      he’s been very pull happy at home.

    • Mike

      His OBP is pretty unremarkable, too. There’s no reason a guy like Tex should have an OBP under .350.

    • Monteroisdinero

      110 points below AGon. No big deal.

  • Foghorn Leghorn

    hate the loss, but whenever Colon loses the headline opportunities are always creative…Rays pound Colon!

    • Yank The Frank

      Tampon in the Colon?

  • China Joe

    Damn, this was the game with probably the most favorable pitching matchup of the whole series. Now it’s Hellickson, Price and Shields. A series split would look pretty damn good right about now.

    • jsbrendog


  • duzzi23

    Tex is def sucking when its not a homerun. I HATE tht shift theres no excuse its an easy double everytime if he used it to his advantage plus theyd go back to playing more traditional defense. It’s an ego thing to not use it. Giambi would drive me crazy with it too.

  • Jimmy McNulty
    • Oscar Gamble’s ‘Fro

      Wow, that’s just awful. Watched the video and apparently his little son was right next to him. Tough for Hamilton too. I’m no expert, but that has to make it harder to stay sober.

      • Dino Velvet

        all that bible study and praying and Hamilton still can’t catch a break

    • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

      Wait… AGAIN? Wasn’t it in Arlington where the guy fell last year?

      • Oscar Gamble’s ‘Fro

        Yes, it was. It was one year and one day ago. The PI lawyers in Arlington must be in full stampede mode.

        • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

          I just saw the video. That’s brutal. They could do a “1,000 Ways To Die” episode about that shit. And the worst part may be that the Rangers broadcasters were laughing about it before they knew he was seriously injured.

          • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

            Actually it was the Oakland A’s broadcasters. My bad.

          • Oscar Gamble’s ‘Fro

            Eh, it’s unfortunate that the announcers were originally laughing, but you can’t kill them for it. They obviously didn’t know that the guy was seriously injured and ultimately would die. The fall doesn’t look that high and things like that frequently make people laugh. I would think once they realized it was serious, they laughing came to an end. It really is just tragic though. That’s apparently his kid in red right next to him when he falls. Just awful, awful, awful for that poor kid. Really bad for Hamilton too. Horrible situation.

            • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

              Right. I don’t blame them.

              Shit happens

  • http://facebook.com/andrewjcalagna Drew

    is it me or does anyone else see Giambi in Tex’s future? He’s way better defensively but come on with the batting average being .240 already!

    • Frank is Tanked

      You’d think they would have learned about giving a huge contract to the easiest position on the diamond to fill.


      • Ted Nelson

        You literally make me laugh out loud.

        • Frank is Tanked

          Their treatment of Montero has me screaming out loud. They have no place for him because they sign overpriced, past prime players. DH is clogged for the next three to five years. 1B is too. And since they won’t dare displace Martin, they might as well have traded Montero last year for Haren or Oswalt when Lee fell through.

          • Ted Nelson

            Montero is 21 and not hitting all that well in AAA this season… have some patience. This is how it works with young players, especially catchers.

            DH is not clogged. A-Rod is having his best defensive season at 3B. Jeter will not DH. C is only clogged this season and next.

            You need some perspective. Jorge didn’t make the bigs fulltime until he was 25 and only played in 60 games that season.

            • Ted Nelson

              And you are saying the Yankees should not have traded the great IPK for Granderson… but they should trade Montero? The number of times you undercut your own points just astounds me. No need to disagree with you, because you’ll just disagree with yourself…

            • Frank is Tanked

              Montero isn’t a catcher.

              • Ted Nelson

                What’s that little C I keep seeing next to his name stand for?

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Matt Imbrogno

      If Tex turns into Yankees-era Giambi, but keeps his good glove, he’ll be very valuable.

      • Frank is Tanked

        ORLY? Defense at 1B is the most meaningless on the diamond.

    • jsbrendog

      jason giambi was extremely productive for the yankees offensively and if that is what teix “deteriorates” into then it is not a bad thing at all if he keeps his defense above average

    • Ted Nelson

      Is this a joke? Tex is an above average defender, while Giambi was a defensive liability his entire career… so that’s a big difference right there. Tex is also at a .376 wOBA this season… batting average tells you a small part of a much bigger picture. Tex has the 5th highest fWAR among 1B in all of MLB so far this season.

      • Ted Nelson

        But Giambi had a wOBA above .400 3 seasons on the Yankees, 2 over .420, and another at .377. If you think Giambi wasn’t a great player for the Yankees… I don’t know what to tell you.

      • David, Jr.

        Right on it. They chose to commit to him as a core Yankee long term, and it was the right decision. Justin Morneau (pre concussion) would be a better comparison than the Giambino.

  • duzzi23

    Yea tex had the monster first year just like giambi did in 02. Both are pull happy guys affected by the shift. Giambi was a big time avg guy too I think he hit 336 in his MVP year. But he also had a lil help with the roids.

  • Frank is Tanked

    It’s good to know the Yankees have Hector Noesi around for important situations like this game. Those 3.1 scoreless innings were really, really important, and winning takes priority, right? Seriously, please just send the kind to the minors so he can start while some veteran schmuck sits in the bullpen for two weeks between low-leverage relief appearances. This is ridiculous.

    See, that’s your problem right there. You think that’s the solution. I see how Noesi and Nova have both been very good for their experience levels. I see veteran schmucks (and an ineffective non-prospect) clogging up the rotation. It’s really as simple as pulling two of Colon and Garcia and Hughes. If the kids stumble, and they will, you ride it out until decent evidence shows they can’t help. This team is winning nothing – not now or next year or the year after that – by relying on Colon and Garcia. They’re pumpkins. And Hughes is a never-has-been.

    The template here is Atlanta. None of their guys 25 and under had more than 200 innings in AA/AAA. Not Hanson. Not Jurrjens. Not Minor. Not Teheran. Not Beachy. You know who will be a major leaguer next year? Arodys Vizcaino. He will have lapped everyone in the Yankee organization in two plus years. That’s how you develop pitchers. They either have it or they don’t. The only way to know is to test them against the only guys that matter. And keep testing them. The answer isn’t giving them little margin for error and then giving all of their starts to the Ponsons and Garcias and Colons of the world.

    I’ll say it again because it bears repeating: Sidney Ponson got more starts with the Yankees than IPK ever did. The same is about to be true of Colon and Garcia relative to Noesi and Warren and Phelps. If those guys don’t get their shot this year and next, they never will, not with this organization. So they’ll go and be effective backend arms for six controlled years for the Padres and Pirates of the world. Meanwhile the Yankees will bring back guys like Nady and Kearns and get nothing.

    • BigBlueAL

      “I see how Noesi and Nova have both been very good for their experience levels.”

      You do realize Nova is only 6 months younger than Hughes and has thrown over 230 more innings in the minors than Hughes. He has done so to an ERA barely below 4 with a WHIP close to 1.40 and barely striking out 6 batters per 9 innings. Compare that to Hughes’ numbers in the minors where his ERA is barely over 2, his WHIP is below 1.00 and he has struck out 10 batters per 9 innings while walking 1 batter less per 9 innings than Nova.

      The difference in their peripherals in their major league careers is just as drastic as their minor league stats. This with Hughes breaking in at a time where it was still a huge hitter’s league compared to now, hence the fact that even with a slightly lower career ERA Nova’s ERA+ is actually a point lower than Hughes.

      Im not one to get into all these statistical comparisons and its obvious you arent either with your insane comments but all the facts prove that Hughes has/is/always will be a much better prospect and major league pitcher than Ivan Nova.

      • Frank is Tanked

        Sure, I have no interest in stats when all day I pointed to Hughes’ vastly inferior numbers.

        The plain fact is Nova has been better at getting MLB hitters out. He’s also been healthy. Those two facts matter most when building a MLB rotation.

        As Hughes has shown, minor league numbers mean very little for MLB success. Hell, IPK was the best of the three in the minors. Did that influence what the Yankees thought of him?

        • jsbrendog


        • Ted Nelson

          Newman is on record saying the Yankees still thought very highly of IPK… they just thought even higher of Granderson. So far they have been right. I was luke-warm on the deal at the time, but the deal is looking really good for the Yankees right now.

          • Frank is Tanked

            Bullshit. They gave Sidney Ponson more of chance.

            What is Newman going to say? We didn’t like his attitude?

            Nah, let’s keep throwing the Coach’s Son who sucks.

            • Ted Nelson

              Is it that you don’t realize Kennedy got hurt? Or that you don’t realize his ERA was above 8? Both?

              Or is it that you don’t understand how a trade works?

              Does Sidney Ponson’s dad coach for the Yankees? What on earth are you blabbering on about?

              • Frank is Tanked

                IPK got hurt in 2009. In 2007 and 2008 he was barely given a chance, like Noesi and Nova and Phelps and Warren now. But Ponson got his chance! Next year will be too late for them when Banuelos and Betances deserve a shot. But I’m sure Smoltz will be ready for a comeback then, so no worries.

                And Hughes’ ERA has been above 10 this year. He’s the Coach’s son. No matter how much he sucks they keep throwing him out there.

                Kennedy will have been the best of the bunch. Now watch as they trade away decent pitchers for much less than Granderson – like Vizcaino and Dunn and McCutchen and Clippard and Melancon.

                • Ted Nelson

                  IPK was diagnosed with bursitis in May of 2008… get your facts straight.

                  IPK was only drafted in 2006… Warren in 2009. That a guy isn’t in the major league rotation a year or two after he was drafted is called “normal.”

                  In 2008 IPK did get a chance, and his ERA was 8. He got a chance to start the season, and then another one when Joba was hurt.
                  In 2007 he started the year in A ball and got 3 MLB starts… how much faster could he have been moved through the system?

                  “And Hughes’ ERA has been above 10 this year.”


                  “Now watch as they trade away decent pitchers for much less than Granderson – like Vizcaino and Dunn and McCutchen and Clippard and Melancon.”

                  The fact that they trade so many decent pitchers and still have so many decent pitchers would seem to point to a great ability to acquire and develop amateur pitchers.

      • Jim S

        Don’t try with him. Unless you want an exhibition in lack of perspective.

    • Ted Nelson

      Hughes is only 6 months older than Nova, and he’s done better at every level. How is he a veteran schmuck and Nova a great young prospect?

      “The answer isn’t giving them little margin for error and then giving all of their starts to the Ponsons and Garcias and Colons of the world.”

      Continuing to lump Colon and Garcia in with Ponson makes you look so stupid that it’s ridiculous.

      “Meanwhile the Yankees will bring back guys like Nady and Kearns and get nothing.”

      Meanwhile, the Yankees have been to the playoffs 15 of the last 16 years and are in-line to get there again, while the Pirates haven’t been in the playoffs since 1992 and the Padres have been twice since 1998.

      • Frank is Tanked

        Hughes had done less with three times as many chances. He gets hurt. Which part of that don’t you understand?

        Meanwhile the Yankees have spent $2 Billion to get to those playoffs in the last decade and they have one title to show for it.

        • Ted Nelson

          The sad thing is that I really think you are an adult now.

          Conversation over. I thought you were a kid with a lot to learn… since it seems like you’re just a really stupid adult now I’m not really interested in discussing anything with you.

          • Frank is Tanked

            The sad thing is you think you’re using facts when all you have is your opinion.

            How many years of schooling did you finish? Ever learn the difference between evidence and anecdote?

            • Ted Nelson

              Where have I used my opinion?

  • forensic

    This is the first time Colon got rocked? So 9 hits (2 HR, 1 triple), 1 walk, and 5 runs in 4.1 innings against Texas doesn’t count? Nor does 7 hits (1 HR, 2 doubles), 4 walks, and 6 runs in 6 innings against Toronto? And I’m not even counting his first appearance of the year since it was in relief and the Tigers were already in the zone after teeing off on Hughes.

    Anyway, I can’t stand how Cano can sit there and stare at his homer down 5-0 and after having not hit one in 76 AB’s.

    I was so close to being able to give Jeter credit for seemingly hitting more balls hard in the last four games than in the last 3 months, but then he has to go and hit four grounders to the left side of the infield and kill all that good will.

    And, Tex is one of my favorite players but boy is his pretty much downward trending the last couple years getting aggravating.

    Oh, and A-Rod, hit a damn HR already. It’s nearing 100 PA’s now. And nearing 50 PA’s with only one XBH. Very Jeterian.

    Russell Martin? I don’t even want to get into his issues right now.

    Ok, had to get that all out.

    • Frank is Tanked

      Would any of us be surprised to see Colon go out in an ALDS and do the same damn thing? Then what have they gained?

      • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

        That is, if Colon lasts that long. Which would be great. Nobody expected ANYTHING from him, and the period of dominance he recently had has already made Cashman signing him worth it.

        • Frank is Tanked

          Sorry, but there’s the opportunity cost. Nova in AAA because Colon hasn’t sucked is not a trade off I feel good about.

          Sidney Ponson once looked like he’d contribute. Then they missed the playoffs and what had they gained?

          Tampa Bay is now 3 back of the Yankees.

          • mbonzo

            How many Cy Young awards did Ponson win? The only similarities Colon has to Ponson is that they were both overweight. Colon was the Sabathia of his day, and he’s been that good this year.

          • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

            What the Yankees have right now is an excess of starting pitching. (Which is a good problem to have.) The rotation currently looks like this: CC, Colon, AJ, Hughes, Garcia

            Nova has pitched well, but wasn’t exactly lights out. Colon has pitched MUCH better than Nova this year. In fact, everyone in the rotation has except for AJ, who has been roughly at Nova’s level FIP wise. And Hughes doesn’t count because of all the time he missed. And Nova isn’t in AAA because of Colon anyway. It’s because of Phil Hughes (who has a higher ceiling and more success at the Major League level than Nova does.)

            • Frank is Tanked

              “he’s been that good this year”

              Except when he hasn’t.

              • http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

                Colon has been that good this year. 1 shitty start against the Rays doesn’t change that. His 2.88 ERA, 2.97 xFIP, and 8.32 K/9 before today’s start speak for themselves.

            • Frank is Tanked

              Sorry, my other reply belongs to bonzo.

              Hughes most certainly “counts”. He’s in the rotation, isn’t he? And at the expense of Nova?

              Worse, you’re assuming Nova won’t get better. He may. he may not. But he needs experience to figure that out, like IPK and Hughes point to their futures.

              AJ is what he is at this point – a guy who never learned a third pitch to keep hitters off-balance. Now when he’s off with the curve, the fastball gets crushed. Or when they’ve seen the curve once or twice, the fastball gets crushed in the third at-bat.

              Garcia is a junkballer. His fastball is averaging 87.1 mph.


              He’s exactly the “veteran schmuck” Mike is saying should be in Noesi’s role. So why is he in the rotation? Because the league hasn’t adjusted to his junk yet?

              So we’ve got AJ being no better than Nova, despite their differences in salary (What did Cashman once say about spending money on free agent pitchers versus developing youth?). Garcia and Colon are waiting to blow up. Then you rely on the youth? Without any backup? And Hughes deserves nothing at this point. He’s gotten his chances.

              The real problem is CC is the only sure thing and yet he’s looking at a huge raise this off-season. After that, not one of the guys in the rotation now is assured of a place next year. Well, AJ is but only because of his salary. THAT is exactly why you take Atlanta’s approach to developing pitching. You commit to testing it in MLB each and every year. There’s always another scrapheap pickup you could try. But the kids have a chance of being better than that.

              • V

                You’re really, really, really whining that Bartolon Colon is in the rotation and Nova isn’t? Really?

                Nova had a few decent outings, but he’s more likely to turn into a pumpkin than Bartolo is. Sure, he’s young. But he doesn’t get swinging strikes. And pitchers who don’t get swinging strikes don’t tend to survive the AL East for long.

                Nova is a 5th starter. He’s not someone to whine about not pitching in the majors.

                • Frank is Tanked

                  So everyone demands “patience” with Hughes because he’ll “develop”, but Nova who’s show he can be league average, if not better, has his future set?

              • Sweet Dick Willie

                THAT is exactly why you take Atlanta’s approach to developing pitching.

                And what advantage has that approach given Atlanta?

                Last year was the 1st year they made the play-offs since 2005. That’s right, 4 consecutive years with no play-offs. See how that plays in the Bronx.

                And they are so good at developing pitchers that they had to sign a 35 year old Derek Lowe to a 4 year $60 million contract after losing out on AJ to the Yankees.

                And even when they did have 3 of the best pitchers in baseball (only one of whom they drafted and developed, btw), how many titles did they win? ONE. One in 4 tries.

                You can go root for Atlanta; me, I’ll stick w/ the Yankees and their methods. Why? Better results.

                • Frank is Tanked

                  And they’ve also spent $2 Billion in the last decade?

                  Lowe was a stopgap, nothing more.

                  They’ve developed two HoF pitchers in last 25 years. Smpoltz was brought in very early. How many have the Yankees developed in the last 50 years?

                  The Yankees are clueless when it comes to developing pitching. This season shows exactly why.

                  It’s easy. Watch what happens with Vizcaino next year Banuelos and Betances are still in the minors. He will have lapped them. Meanwhile, Atlanta is currently developing 5 starting pitchers on the major league roster who are 25 and under.

                  • jsbrendog

                    they developed 2 hall of fame pitchers? glavine and smoltz? i hope you realize greg maddux was not “developed” by the braves. but you probably dont based on your knowledge of baseball

                    • Frank is Tanked

                      Ummm, Glavine and Smoltz were developed by them. That’s the two.

                      Let’s test your knowledge of baseball: Who’s the last HoF starting pitcher developed by the Yankees?

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Um… Smoltz was not developed by the Braves. He never pitched below AAA for them when they acquired him from the Tigers.

                      And is Glavine any more a HOF candidate than Pettitte?

              • Monteroisdinero

                I agree with alot of what you have been saying. I prefer Nova to Phil as I think he has better command of 4 pitches than Phil does. That said, Hughes will get a few more starts to see if his issue is “building arm strength’ or not. He’s either got a dead arm or he’s building arm strength or he is just not as good as we thought he would be but we will soon find out. The Sox have 3 of their 5 starters out with injuries and who knows what type of lingering effects Bucholz and Lester’s injuries will have the next few months. We shall see.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Pretty rough when you’re the voice of reason on prospects… but seriously, Hughes is all of 6 months older than Nova.

                  • Frank is Tanked

                    He’s also been much worse in the majors as a starter and can’t stay healthy. What’s your point?

          • jsbrendog

            no one cares how you feel. especially about nova.

          • Ted Nelson

            Stop lumping Colon in with Ponson… it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about the game of baseball. Colon has been one of the best starting pitchers in the major leagues this season, Ponson was truly awful for the Yankees.

            • jsbrendog

              ponson was also never even close to half of what colon is now let alone what he was in his prime

              • Frank is Tanked

                And yet he got more of a chance in one year than Kennedy ever did in his Yankee career. What’s that say?

                • jsbrendog

                  that kennedy was in single a when ponson pitched and wasnt an option. and that when kennedy did get a chance he got shelled and got hurt. seriously, i pray for the day you get banned to prevent you form hijacking threads with your doomsday ignorant nonsense

                  • Frank is Tanked

                    Not true at all. 2008 Kennedy was clearly ready. They just sent him back down when he struggled – and got a 5.85 ERA from Ponson instead.

                    Hell, IPK was clearly ready in 2007. He was a college arm who needed to face MLB hitters to learn. And he has finally, just not with the Yankees.

  • JohnC

    I don’t understand why Tex stubbornly refuses to take the ball away to the opposite field. Last night in the first inning with Jeter on2nd, he got a slow breaking pitch on the otuer half of the plate that if he just went with it, he’d have had an easy rbi single cause the entire left side of the infield was wide open. If he did that once in a while, teams wouldn’t be so quick to overshift the way they do. Big Papi does it, so do AGON and even Travis Hafner. Why is Tex so thick headed?

    • Jim S

      Big Papi almost never does it. A-Gon does it very rarely, and thanks but I’ll actually take Tex’s stats over Hafners.

      Teams still overshift, even with the occasional bunt/slow roller down the 3rd base line.

      • JohnC

        Big Papi has on more than one occasion dropped a bunt down third to beat the shift. AGON does it quite frequently, so don’t tell me they almost never do it cause I’ve seen them do it. My point is, if Tex would try it once in ahwile, teams wouldn’t be so shift conscious

        • Jim S

          Oh well, if you’ve seen them do it, they must do it all the time.

          I’ll take the box-scores and game recaps though, as proof of how often it happens.


          Show me his bunt singles. Thanks.

        • Jim S

          Hafner has ONE bunt single. One. Adrian Gonzalez(if my interpretation of spray charts is close) has at MOST 6.

          They try it once in a while(once in Hafner’s case, he was a WEIRD example to use as proof), and guess what. Teams still shift.

  • Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan

    Mark Teixeira’s batting average bothers me.

    • jsbrendog

      132 ops+ and and 2.7 WAR (last yr he finished with 3.3)


      (this doesn’t mean i dont necessarily agree but still, BA is not the biggest deal when youre producing like he is in almost eveyr other facet of the game)

      • Hester Prynne

        People complain about A-Rod’s lack of power but then complain about Teix’s low BA, they just want something to complain about.

  • Hester Prynne

    I thought we’d take 3/4 coming into the series but now I think we’ll lose 3/4. We won’t beat Price and Shields. Best case scenario is win tonight and split the final 2. Get Jeter’s 3,000th over tonight. We’re now 2-9 vs the Rays and Sox.

    • jsbrendog

      because david price is undefeated this year and didnt just lose his last start to a team not as good as the yankees….

    • V

      So, before game 1, you thought they’d go 2/3 in the next three games. After game 1, you think they’ll go 1/3. That makes perfect sense.

      • Ted Nelson


      • Hester Prynne

        Nobody’s hitting. We’re going to be facing better hitters now and Freddy and AJ could get rocked just like Bartolo did.

        • Ted Nelson

          It’s the complete swing in confidence based on one game that seems completely ridiculous. It was one game. If they score 10 runs tomorrow… guess what? Everyone will be hitting. You’re cold until you’re hot and hot until you’re cold.

    • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

      How could you have such a smart comment above and then such a dumb, panicky one right here?

  • LarryM.,Fl.

    Much of the conversation appears to be about Tex. and his awful average. Watching him at the plate, the conclusion that I draw is his attempt at lifting every pitch. He could hit .300 in a heart beat with just hitting and outside pitch to the shortstop hole. I know it sounds ez as proposed but there are situations in a game when the 5 rum HR is not available and runners on base are meaningful.

    He’s a professional hitter and can hit an outside pitch to the left side, once or twice a week in 25/30 AB’s.

  • TonyO

    Is there a way we can see Tex’s spray chart prior to arriving in NY and while he has been with NY? Did he hit the ball the other way? Its ridiculous that our #3 hitter is batting .240 its a joke.

    Now I’m glad we took Nunez out of the lineup, I mean honestly he wasn’t hitting or anything? So you can’t play him at short because we have to play a 37 year old aging star with no range and no pop and no speed, but what about letting the kid at least DH I mean ride his bat for a few more days? They have Pena on the bench as an infield backup. I’m not buying the hammy injury, I think that was more of NY allowing that Jeter transition to come much easier. I might be way off base on this but I am sick of this punchless offense, and yes there is more to blame than Jeter and Tex but prior to Jeter’s arrival from the DL, the offense was rolling……

  • Ted Nelson

    Maybe I’m being paranoid… but ESPN.com’s headline this morning is basically celebrating the Red Sox taking over first place: “With the Yankees’ attention elsewhere, their rivals in Boston hit six homers to leap over them and into first place in the AL East.”

    It seems like a blatant shot at the Yankees/Jeter, and… do they announce it with the homepage headline every time the Yankees take over 1st from the Sux?

  • Kramerica Industries

    The Yankees always seem to struggle against Niemann. Difference is, it was somewhat acceptable in 2009, when he had a very solid season. Not the same in 2011, when he friggen sucks.

    I look at this as a huge series because, unlike the Red Sox at the moment, games against the Rays determine the margin in which the Yankees currently hold a playoff spot. The division would be nice, but the wild card would suffice, since the biggest objective is to get to the playoffs first. Hell, in the case of 2010, it might’ve been the difference between an ALDS or an ALCS exit (though I think a LDS matchup against Texas certainly could’ve gone another way).

    And just from the start last night, it seemed like a Rays night. It’s never a good thing when the 2nd pitch of the game results in a triple. And then the RISP failings of the first two innings, which seemed so predictable, but faint optimism for success left feelings of disappointment anyway.

    The Rays are 9-10 at the new ballpark, but it doesn’t feel that way. For God knows what reason, when they win in the Bronx, they win easily. Five of the nine wins have been of the relative ease variety, while the Yankees have had, I believe, three that I would give the same classification.

    The previous two seasons, the Rays were not so much of an annoyance to me because I expected big things from them (WS in ’09, ALCS exit in ’10). This year, I did not expect them to be as capable of hanging with the Yankees or Red Sox, and yet here they are, hanging in the race very much, and Casey Kotchman is a microcosm of that team, somehow still hitting well above .340 after nearly three months.

    I’m probably going to sit out of the next three games, for the most part, and the Yankees play in the past five games has nothing to do with it. Watching the Rays is actually becoming harmful for my mental health. And once a team becomes a strain on one’s health, baseball isn’t quite worth it like it should be.

    Such an annoying fucking team.

    • first time lawng time

      Yeah, thr Yankees have sucked against TB since like the last series of 2009.

      They’ve won what? 1 series? Kind of a joke.

      • Kramerica Industries

        And the last series in ’09 was worthless – it was the final weekend with everything under wraps for both teams.

        But since then, we’ve seen the Yankees blow 5+ run leads against them a couple times (managing to win one of those games in spite of that), get their asses handed to them time and time again in the Bronx, and basically gift-wrap a division title for them with their wretched play down the stretch last season, not having the killer instinct to win either September series despite being in position to do so.

        Based on my St. Pete locale, the Rays recent domination is even more painful to deal with. Gloating about Yankee victories is beneath me – I expect them to win, so I don’t brag when they do. But, knowing the number of Yankee (and Red Sox) fans that live here, you can bet that Rays fans like to give the others friggen hell when the Rays beat either of them.

        Hope they bounce back and manage at least a split in this series, which would at least keep intact their four game margin with four head-to-heads knocked off the board. Not that it will be easy given they’ll be facing Price (top five pitcher when at the top of his game) and Shields (top five pitcher in ’11) in the process. Granted, they faced both in May and should’ve won both games.

        When it comes to four game series, I always look at them where the team that wins the first game now only has a three game series ahead of them, and a success in three game sets is always two of three. Well, if a teams wins the first and then has the nominal three game series success, they’ve won three of four.

        The Rays are certainly capable of winning two of three in the Bronx. That would be especially bad here given what happened in the preceding game to all of that.

        Hope it doesn’t happen. Rather, hope the Yanks kick their friggen asses.

        • Stan the Man

          When is Montero coming up? I am done watching Russell Martin hit soft grounders all game. Guy has been absolutely dreadful since mid-April.

          • jsbrendog

            yeah cause he didn’t crush a ball to the oppoiste field last night that was an inch away form being a hr. nope.

            • Frank is Tanked

              Ummmm, look at his stats since May 1st.

              Martin isn’t a starter. By forcing him to be one they get much less out of him.

              • David, Jr.

                Listening to your trolling garbage, you apparently believe that the Yankees will win maybe 85 games, due to the incompetence of their management. I have them at 94, while at the same retaining the key pieces of an elite level farm system. We will see what happens.