Series Preview: Kansas City Royals

Fan Confidence Poll: August 15th, 2011
2011 Draft: Yankees sign 20th rounder Dan Camarena
(Photo Credit: Flickr user daveynin via Creative Commons license)

Kauffman Stadium is one of the nicer parks in the league I hear, especially after they renovated the place a year or two ago. Ben will be there for all three games this week, but alas, I’ll be watching on the ol’ idiot box. These two clubs met in New York earlier this season, with the Royals taking two of three. They won the first game in extra innings thanks to Buddy Carlyle, and the other by pounding Ivan Nova.

What Have The Royals Done Lately?

Yesterday’s loss to the White Sox was their second straight loss and their sixth in their last seven days. They’ve also lost eight of their last ten. The Royals are 50-71 overall with a -55 run differential, occupying the bottom spot in the AL Central.

Royals On Offense

(Photo Credit: Flickr user Keith Allison via Creative Commons license)

Kansas City has a pretty legit offense, though the lineup is top heavy. Alex Gordon (.298/.372/.480) is their best all around hitter (and player) and leadoff guy, and former Yankee Melky Cabrera (.311/.343/.478) has settled into the number two spot. Billy Butler (.284/.363/.445) bats third and rookie Eric Hosmer (.275/.328/.425) cleans up. Hosmer hit his first career homer in Yankee Stadium earlier in the season, and he’s hitting a stout .293/.354/.469 over the last six weeks or so. Jeff Francoeur soaks up the fifth spot with his .272/.323/.460 batting line. Those five are the only players on the team with double digit homeruns, and all of them except Hosmer have either 14 or 15 (Hosmer has ten).

The rest of the lineup is pretty iffy. Recent call-up Johnny Giavotella is guaran-damn-teed to be that pain in the butt player this series, and he’s hitting .289/.325/.474 in limited time. Third baseman Mike Moustakas is having trouble after making the jump from hot shot prospect to big leaguer (.184/.242/.232 in a small-ish sample), and another recent call-up (Salvador Perez) has taken over behind the plate (.264/.250/.333 in four games). Alcides Escobar is in the lineup for his glove (+8 UZR, +11 DRS), not his bat (.251/.288/.332).

That group of players up their represent their regular lineup, and like the Yankees, the Royals only have three players on the bench. That’s backup catcher Brayan Pena (.262/.302/.364), backup infielder Chris Getz (.256/.315/.285), and backup outfielder Mitch Maier (.253/.364/.360). Kansas City is one stolen base behind the Yankees for the AL lead, and they have five players with at least ten steals (Getz, Escobar, Gordon, Melky, and Frenchy). It’s a better offense than you may realize.

Royals On The Mound

Monday, RHP Felipe Paulino (vs. A.J. Burnett): Claimed off waivers from the Rockies earlier this season, Paulino (a former Astros) has quietly performed like a borderline ace for the Royals in a dozen starts. His strikeout (8.23 K/9) and walk (2.90 BB/9) rates are very good, and although 44.8% grounders isn’t great, it’ll get the job done with those walks and whiffs. Paulino brings the heat, legitimately sitting in the mid-90’s with his fastball and throwing his slider in the high-80’s. He’s also got a changeup and curveball, but they’re distant third and fourth offerings. Unsurprisingly, he does have some trouble with lefties. The Yankees have never faced Paulino, and he’s allowed more than three runs just four times as a Royal. He’s sneaky good.

(Photo Credit: Flickr user Dinur via Creative Commons license)

Tuesday, LHP Danny Duffy (vs. Nova): Another guy the Yankees have never faced before, Duffy was one of nine top 100 prospects the Royals boasted coming into the season. He’s been below-average in 15 starts since being called up, walking too many (4.41 BB/9), getting too few ground balls (39.4%), and throwing too many pitches (averaging 97 pitches and just 5.1 IP per start). Duffy’s a hard-throwing lefty, sitting in the 92-94 range with his four-seamer and a touch below that with his two-seamer. A big-breaking mid-70’s curveball is his bread and butter pitcher, and his low-80’s changeup is a decent offering as well. Duffy certainly has the ability to shut the Yankees down, but I’d like to think that they’ll punish a rookie pitcher with walk and fly ball issues.

Wednesday, LHP Bruce Chen (vs. Bartolo Colon): For some reason I thought Chen shut the Yankees down last year, but he made just two starts against them and neither was all that great: 6 IP, 5 R and 5 IP, 3 R. He’s having a similar season to last year but is just a bit worse across the board, with underwhelming strikeout (5.59 K/9), homerun (1.16 HR/9), and ground ball (37%) rates. His walk rate (3.28 BB/9) is fine though. Chen is a total soft-tosser, sitting 84-88 with a variety of fastballs (four-seamer, two-seamer, cutter). A low-80’s slider is his top secondary offering, and he’ll also mix in a high-70’s changeup and low-70’s curve. Chen’s been pretty good since coming off the DL in late June, allowing three or fewer runs in six of nine starts. He did cough up ten runs just three starts ago, though.

Bullpen: Three men on the bench means eight guys on the bullpen. Closer Joakim Soria has dug himself out of an early season rut, pitching to a 2.22 ERA with 27 strikeouts and just four walks in 28.1 IP since the calendar flipped to May. His primary setup man these days is righty Greg Holland (2.56 FIP), though Aaron Crow (3.85 FIP) will also get some late-inning work as well. Louis Coleman (3.69 FIP) is a side-arming righty without much of a platoon split, but that’s because he hasn’t been up all that long. Tim Collins has gaudy minor league numbers but also some major walk problems (6.66 BB/9 and 4.74 FIP). Blake Wood (4.13 FIP), Nathan Adcock (4.45 FIP), and Everett Teaford (7.13 FIP in a small sample) fill out the rest of the bullpen, doing everything from long relief to middle innings work. Collins and Teaford are the two lefties.

Recommended Royals Reading: Royals Review

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Fan Confidence Poll: August 15th, 2011
2011 Draft: Yankees sign 20th rounder Dan Camarena
  • Melky

    according to oWAR: Granderson > Melky > Swisher > Gardner this season. I know Gardner has defensive value and all, but defensive metrics suck. So offensively, Melky would be nice to have.

    • Bum Rushed

      Agreed, especially since he’s been better than Jones and Dickerson too.

      • Jim S

        Sure, but at this point why would he want to be a 4th outfielder?

        • Bum Rushed

          Who says it’s a do-over? The kid is establishing himself.

          It always made sense to me to alternate Melky and Gardner based on who’s hot. They gave up that option (plus Vizcaino and Dunn) for absolutely nothing.

          • Jim S

            I’m not defending the trade. I’d love to have Vizcaino, but I’m agreeing with Mike. Giving up Melky was never what bothered me.

    • Jim S

      Don’t bother with the actual metrics then, but you can’t just take out the defense completely. That’s the opposite extreme.

      You can have Melky, I’ll gladly, gladly have Gardner.

      • Melky

        It’s hysterical how Yankee fans overvalue Brett Gardner. He’s not playing a premium position (CF) and he’s not producing offensively at an elite level. Melky Cabrera is a far more proficient hitter.

        If this was a debate between John McDonald and Hanley Ramirez we would take Hanley in a heart beat. The oWar extreme is about the same.

        • Jim S

          You’re only citing oWar. There are like, 800 million other statistics that disagree with you.

          • Melky

            Melky has a better wOBA too.

            • Jim S

              Not by NEARLY the gap you’re implying. .357 to .351

              Again, it’s not like scouts disagree with the metrics on Gardner. He’s a fantastic defensive outfielder. If you’re going to deny that has any value, I can’t keep having this discussion with you.

              • Melky

                Defense certainly has value. But there are premium positions (CF,SS,C,2B) where defense holds a much greater value. You can find light-hitting LF with sensational defense around major league baseball.

                I do not agree with any defensive metric out there because they often disagree with themselves on a year-by-year basis. There’s nothing concrete out there.

                So to give Gardner a jump of about 5 WAR because of his defense is absolutely silly.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Are you serious? They could stick Gardner in CF no problem. He’s not stuck there because of his defense. Both he and Melky play their positions because of the teams around around.

                  • Melky

                    This is an absolutely speculative statement. If I remember correctly, Gardner was absolutely vilified for his inability to read balls hit to center field. He would poorly read balls and his speed would not be enough to compensate for it.

                    Might he have improved? Maybe. But you can’t simply make such a speculative statement with little to no evidence to support it. There’s a reason he’s in LF and it’s not to save Granderson’s ego (one of the most humble players in the league).

                    • pat

                      No it was definitely to cater to Granderson to make his transition to the NY easier.

                    • Melky

                      Foolish propaganda for the Gardner fan-boys to convince themselves he’s an elite CF.

                    • CP

                      Gardner was absolutely vilified for his inability to read balls hit to center field.

                      You have this backwards. It was Melky that was vilified because he couldn’t read balls hit to center field.

                    • pat

                      He only has about an 18 UZR in CF for his career. Make of that what you wish.

                • Jim S

                  This year he’s been worth ~2.5, not 5.

                  And to give him no credit at all is sillier.

                  Also to completely ignore last year offensively is silliest.

                  Also, defensive metrics have not disagreed on Gardner, ever. Nor have scouts.

            • Guns of the Navarone

              This season. He has a (slightly) better wOBA… this season. It’s hysterical how much weight you’re putting into not even one season’s worth of data.

              Over the past three seasons, Brett Gardner has been the better offensive and defensive player. Period. Melky is currently rocking the highest BABIP of his career by leaps and bounds while still holding a below average BB%. Yet his wOBA is only .357 compared to Gardner’s .351. and Gardner didn’t hit at all at the beginning of the season.

              Gardner’s wOBA since May: .387 in June, .359 in July, .384 thus far in Aug.

              Gardner > Melky. Come back next season if/when Melky keeps this up and then you’ll have a case.

              • Melky

                Melky’s BABIP < Gardner's BABIP
                Melky's K% < Gardner's K% at any point in his career

                And despite Gardner's hot streak Melky has still been better.

                And Melky is younger.

                • Guns of the Navarone

                  Because it’s unusual for a player with elite speed to have a high BABIP…

                  Good stuff.

                • Jim S

                  K%, alone, is a terrible measure of offensive value.

                  Fun fact: Brett Gardner had a .340 BABIP last year. This year it’s .338

                  Melky has never been above .309 in a full season.

                • Guns of the Navarone

                  Melky’s BABIP is well above his career averages while Gardner’s BABIP is right in line with is career. He had a .340 BABIP all of last season.

                • Brian S.

                  No sh*t Garnder has a high BABIP, he’s one of the fastest players in baseball! And it lines in with his career norms while Melky’s is better than it has EVER been by leaps and bounds.

                • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                  “Gardner’s hot streak”? You mean the good hitting he’s kept up since the beginning of last year that destroys the production of any LFer outside of Braun, Holliday and Hamilton?

                  Get outta here.

        • CP

          Over the last two seasons, Melky has been worth a total of 6 runs above replavement offensively. In the same time, Gardner has been worth 26.6 runs.

          In his career, Melky has been above replacement level offensively twice: 2011 and 2006. Gardner has done it each of the last 3 seasons, with his rookie season in 2008 being the only time he failed.

          Melky is having a better season at the plate than Gardner, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he will keep it up. His track record has been pretty mediocre to bad.

          • Melky

            Melky Cabrera is younger than Brett Gardner. Melky Cabrera’s track record includes age 20,21, and 22 seasons while Brett Gardner was in college and an age 23 and 24 season when Brett Garnder was in the minor leagues. Age 25 he was traded away and was obviously devastated by the trade considering the news articles that came in once he left. He got back in shape this season and is producing extremely well.

            I just can’t fathom the Melky hate and the Gardner love.

            • CP

              I understand that Melky’s young, but you’re suggesting he’s a better hitter than Gardner.

              That’s not true based on the evidence.

              It’s possible that this is a breakout year for him. It’s also possible that this is a fluke and he’ll revert to his past level next year. Why can’t you accept that?

        • jsbrendog

          melky cabrera 2011: 3.8 war

          this is the first time in his career he has ever been above 1.7. he has been a fulltime player for many seasons.

          brett gardner 2011: 4.3 war.

          last year in his first full year he was at 6.2.

          and in 09 he was at 2.4 in 108 games.

          so, yeah, you can keep melky and i will gladly gladly gladly take gardner.

          but hey, stats mean nothing

          • Melky

            Or war inflated by defense means nothing.

            • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

              WAR is not “inflated” by defense. Defense is a part of WAR.

              What the fuck are you talking about?!

              • Jim S

                He left.

    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

      Fuck no, not ever never never never.

      Gardner is an elite defender, metrics be damned. He also can run, which is worth something.

  • The blond chick from Die Antwoord

    As long as they (Yankees) take 2 out of 3 I’ll be satisfied.

  • Bum Rushed

    Wow, could that Vazquez trade get any worse? First Melky finds his peak, then Vizcaino has been filthy in the majors, and even Michael Dunn has a 10 K/9.

    Worst. Trade. Ever.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Well, Melky got released after being paid $3.1M to be one of the worse players in baseball last year. He’s the last person in that trade I’m upset about losing.

      • Melky

        Melky Cabrera was always treated like an over-the-hill veteran. It’s absolutely ridiculous to judge Melky Cabrera based off of his poor season. He was 23/24 years old.

        Melky had potential (Tony Franklin loved his hitting ability and raved that Melky would win a batting title one day) and simply because of the Gardner hype, his lack of top prospect status, and the frustration over his poor season the fans hated Melky. He was a major loss. Cost-controlled and producing like an all-star.

        • Bum Rushed

          This.

          Of course, Mike loves to use small samples when it suits his purposes. One year? Sure, why not!

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            .321 OBP and an 84 OPS+ from 2007-2010. Try another straw man.

            • Melky

              That’s an absolutely unfair assessment of a baseball player. OBP is a great statistic to show, well, how often someone gets on base. But Melky’s OBP fluctuated plenty throughout his tenure in NY and Melky’s value is in batting average and slugging over Gardner.

              Also, you neglect to mention how old the guy was. I bet if Gardner had put up those numbers at that age you would’ve said “young player, rushed to the big leagues, in over his head, patience.”

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Of course Melky was young, they had him up way before he should have been (especially in 2005). Had a very nice year in 2006, didn’t build on it at all.

                • Melky

                  It’s mind-boggling how impatient prospect junkies are/were with Melky Cabrera and how absolutely inconsiderate of his age and development as a player and a hitter.

                  • Guns of the Navarone

                    It’s not about being impatient. It’s about not crying about losing a young player when the Yankees have a better young player to take his place.

                    Because Gardner > Melky.

                    • Melky

                      Right because you say so?

                    • Brian S.

                      Because statistics, math, and facts say so!

              • Bum Rushed

                Bingo. Good for you for calling him out for being inconsistent. With Hughes it’s always been a lack of experience and just needing more patience. With Melky, he was the player he was always going to be at age 24.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Right, because Melky getting five years of 450+ PA is totally like Hughes having two injury interrupted years and one full season as a starter.

                  • Melky

                    Melky was 20,21,22 and 23 years old with little to no time in AAA. Let’s be serious here. He was developing as a player. Is it that hard to accept? You accept it for everyone else.

                  • Bum Rushed

                    Right, cause an injury prone starter is one to depend on.

                    Power develops late. Melky is showing that now.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      That’s great, what about his inability to get on base via something other than a hit?

                  • Melky

                    He’s done it at an 8% rate throughout his career and over a 10% rate in the minors. It might simply be the Royals preaching a more aggressive style, or lesser protection in the lineup forcing him to expand the zone.

                    Also, he walks very little but he strikes out very little as well. So it’s a plus. You can’t value every offensive player simply by his ability to draw walks. That’s incredibly ignorant.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      It’s not a plus. Striking out less does not make getting on base less okay.

                    • Melky

                      Actually it does. It’s a testament to your ability to put the bat on the ball and make something happen. I rather Melky ground out to second base and advance a runner instead of staring at strike three like Gardner.

                      Making contact is better than striking out.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      This.

                      Keep it coming Melky. It’s about time this crowd ate crow.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Making contact is better than striking out.

                      Not when the trade off is getting on base at a lesser rate. Melky’s cute little ground outs will be completely negated by Gardner getting on base more often.

                    • Melky

                      Brett Gardner BB%: ~10%
                      Melky Cabrera BB%: ~5%

                      Brett Gardner K%: ~17%
                      Melky Cabrera K%: ~13%

                      Let’s not pretend that Gardner walks at some ridiculous rate here. Melky also walks at an 8/9% rate in his career btw.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      Getting on base >>> all you bitches.

            • Bum Rushed

              Nice of you to discover Melky’s development. That still doesn’t explain how he’s peaking now. And they gave that away for literally nothing.

              • Jim S

                To get this upset about a 4th outfielder(on this team) is silly.

                Why would he come here to split time with Gardner(even if the Yankees were willing)? Clearly both of them are good enough to be starting OF’s.

                The trade wasn’t good, but Melky would be a luxury, not a necessity, on this team.

                • Melky

                  Because luxury is always a bad thing. Gardner would be a pinch-runner/4th outfielder on this team if Melky was here and would be brought in for late inning defense. Our team would be better for it.

                  • Jim S

                    This is just not true. If Melky had his season last year in NY, he would have been run out of town by people like you.

                    Gardner was so, so, so much better than Melky last year.

                    .358 to .294 wOBA.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      You assume all else being equal. Problem is, nothing was.

                    • Jim S

                      What does this even mean?

                      If I’m making that assumption, it’s only because you and Melky(the poster) have done the same thing in this thread, assuming he would have developed and hit like this in 2011 if he were with the yankees, when it’s much more likely that he would have been relegated to 4th OF given last year.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Right, Melky was worse than Gardner at everything last year, and was being paid almost 8x as much of him. There’s a reason a contender released him and he’s now on the Royals.

                    • Melky

                      Again, the lack of consideration over the kid’s circumstance is absolutely and utterly ridiculous. But I’ll agree to disagree and let his play do the talking.

                      When Eduardo Nunez is a solid contributor on a big league team and when Melky is an all-star I expect apologies from Mike on both counts.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      Nunez is a solid contributor on the Yankees, and I believe Mike wrote a good piece explaining how he had failed to see that coming. He doesn’t need to “apologize” for anything, though.

                    • Jim S

                      Yeah this is quite ironic since Mike basically wrote that mea culpa re: nunez last week.

                      Wouldn’t have taken much work to find it.

      • Bum Rushed

        Except he’s just hitting his peak now. Two mistakes don’t remove that fact. He always had upside. As 3rd/4th OF, he had value that they pissed away for a pitcher who was a downgrade.

        In fact, that trade represents every thing wrong with the front office that has only been amplified this year – an overwhelming tendency to trust experience rather than upside. It explains Nova, Noesi, and Montero.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Except he’s just hitting his peak now.

          His peak: career high strikeout rate, career worst walk rate, career best BABIP. I’ll be impressed when he does it again.

          • Bum Rushed

            And he’s still only 26!

            What did they get for him again?

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              So if they had re-signed him again this winter, would that have made a difference?

              • Bum Rushed

                Does that bring back Vizcaino and Dunn?

                Worst. Trade. Ever.

                Sincerely,
                Objectivity.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  When did I say it wasn’t a bad trade?

                  Strawman: 0
                  Bum Rushed: 2

                  • Bum Rushed

                    Two weeks ago you and your minions were defending it as the right move at the time.

                    Vizcaino being filthy makes that version snort-worthy. Melky being excellent makes you all look Kool-Aid drunk.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Liked the trade at the time, didn’t work out. Never defended it through hindsight because you can’t.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      If you liked the trade at the time, then nothing outs you as biased more than that. It was an awful trade to anyone who had eyes. They gave up significant upside for nothing in return. Moreover, it was obvious that trade would forever relegate Joba to the pen.

                      Worst. Trade. Ever.

                      Arodys is going to burn…Melky merely stings.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Funny, I remember the argument being that it would relegate Hughes to the pen long-term.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Funny, then you have Alzheimer’s. It was obvious that Hughes was always going to win that “competition”.

                      Vazquez was just plain awful. It was Cashman saying F-U “I’ll do what I want, to hell with evidence” just like Pavano and Burnett before him. Not surprisingly he’s defending Burnett now just like he did with them too.

                      Two years running they’ve had a chance to develop pitching and they’ve stuck with inferior arms. And people still hope for Banuelos and Betances?

                      Fool me once…

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      The foolish thing would have been to put Banuelos or Betances in the rotation to start the year instead of Garcia/Colon because of how they looked in ST.

                    • jsbrendog

                      sooo, him accusing you of having alkzheimers and throwing personl insults around is terms for banning right?

                      i mean, honestly i have family members with alzheimers and he has offended me

          • Melky

            (1) I know BABIP is unique to every player, but Melky made significant changes to his body type and it’s not unheard of to maintain a .335 BABIP.

            (2)You ignore a 20.6% LD% which is the second best of his career. And a 10.9 Hr/FB best of his career. And a 13% K rate is still better than anything Gardner has ever done in his career.

            (3) You’re clearly biased

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              I am biased. Nothing in Melky’s track or skill set suggests this is the real him. He was projected to be a fourth outfielder and he played like a fourth outfielder for the first five years of his career. He’s young and the breakout might be real, but I’m willing to bet it’s not.

              • Melky

                People need to stop pigeon-holing players into their projections. Simple because scout.com says Melky is a fourth outfielder does not mean his is.

                Melky Cabrera is a better hitter than Gardner and he has always been a better hitter.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Except for last year, when he was one of the worst players in baseball. And the few years before that.

                  • Bum Rushed

                    Actually, you know who was one of the worst players last year?

                    Javier Vazquez.
                    AJ Burnett.

                    But, nah, let’s pick apart the 25 year old adjusting to a new team and league.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Strawman: 0
                      Bum Rushed: 3

                      When your argument defending Melky is that Javy Vazquez sucked, you lose.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      When your argument is Melky was and always will be a 4th OF, you lose. He’s proving you wrong right now. Of course, the same was said of Gardner. See, you bow to conventional wisdom only when it suits you.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      Let’s remember, Melky Cabrera is a starting outfielder… for the KC Royals.

                    • Jim S

                      Melky is a 4th of if he were on the Yankees. Because the Yankees have a ridiculously stacked outfield.

                      Melky can start basically anywhere else. You’re taking Mike’s words(and mine) out of context.

                    • CP

                      Interestingly, Melky was considerably worse than either Vazquez or Burnett last year.

                    • Jim S

                      We aren’t allowed to use last year in this argument, apparently.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Yeah, he’s proven me wrong for 500 plate appearances. I didn’t think Gardner would be much more a fourth outfielder, but he’s doing it for the second year in a row now. When Melky repeats it, I’ll give him credit.

                • Jim S

                  I can tell you with 99% confidence that Mike is not using scout.com

                  You saying flat out that Melky is and always has been a better hitter than Gardner doesn’t make it true.

    • bonestock94

      It was usually either Melky or Gardner in the lineup. I’m happy with the Yankees’ choice.

      • Melky

        Why? Because Gardner is fast? Because UZR says Gardner plays great defensive? The oWar difference between the two: 4.4 /1.6. And Melky steals bags too. I’d take Melky over Gardner.

        • Jim S

          Why are you completely ignoring defense?

          • Melky

            Because he plays a corner OF position and light hitting corner outfielders who play good defense grow on trees.

            • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

              So do power hitting elite defending CFers.

            • Jim S

              But he’s not light hitting. He’s just not.

              .363 OBP players with speed and amazing defense to not grow on any trees.

        • Jim S

          And only siting oWar is intellectually dishonest.

          Use other stats too, wrc+ it’s only 124 to 119.
          His wOBA advantage is only .357 to .351
          Gardner has a .020 point OBP advantage.
          Cabrera as stolen 16/23 bases, Gardner 36/47.

          In what world would you actually want Cabrera over Gardner? The offensive values are so close that to ignore defense is just silly.

          Look, I like what Melky’s done, but you’re ridiculously underselling Gardner.

          • Jim S

            Melky(the poster): If you can give me a well-reasoned, evidenced proof of why we should use oWAR over any other statistic, and why defensive metrics(and scouts) should be ignored when evaluating talent, and why making contact(and more outs) is better than walking(and making fewer outs), I will concede this argument.

        • bonestock94

          I don’t give a shit about oWAR, nobody uses that for a reason. Melky is having his career year I’m not gonna lose sleep about it, he’s sucked most other years. Gardner has been awesome the past two years, with 4 good to great tools.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Arodys is fucking up already? Holy shit this fucking sucks.

    • Jorge

      Bum Rushed: Not old enough to remember Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps.

      This was a bad trade, and it’s a bad trade that, so far, means zilch to this team. I still wear my Melky shirt to the stadium, yet the team’s outfield is not missing a beat without him (and he went through another team before having this good season.)

      Who really gives a crap about a middle reliever like Mike Dunn? I hope Vizcaino succeeds, and I hope Betances and Banuelos do too, since you then realize that you can’t keep every prospect.

      It’s time to let go of the Javy Vazquez trade.

      • Jim S

        This. A million times this.

        I loved Melky. I still root for him, I’m glad he’s having a great year.

        That’s not blinding me from recognizing that this team still has a LOOGY, still has probably the best OF in the major leagues, and still has some great, high-end starting pitching prospects in the minors.

        We can acknowledge a trade was poor(in hindsight) without being unreasonable about Melky.

      • Bum Rushed

        Vizcaino will be better than Banuelos and Betances. He’s pitching in a pitcher’s organization. The Yankee, by contrast, have no fricken clue. Hector Noesi says hello. As do IPK, Hughes, and Joba…

        Ain’t no letting go of that trade. It’s going to haunt this organization. Arodys is filthy and they got nothing in return.

        • CP

          IPK seems to have done pretty well after being developed by the Yankees.

          • Bum Rushed

            Um, except he wasn’t “developed” by the Yankees.

            • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

              Yeah, he was.

              • Bum Rushed

                You mean the 12 games started in MLB over three years? He surpassed that in his first year in Zona.

                Hughes and Joba similarly show what it means to be “developed” by the Yankees.

                IPK is already far better than both.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Gonna ignore the aneurysm that keep off the mound for most of 2009, are ya?

                  • Jim S

                    Come on Mike, you really think the Yankees didn’t cause that aneurysm with their mishandling of Kennedy’s development?

                  • Bum Rushed

                    And 2008? When Sir Sidney got how many starts?

                    Funny that folks here think you’re developed if you pitch through AAA. That about aligns with the Yankee program too.

                    Good thing Hughes has been developed! Joba too! And Noesi! And Phelps! And Warren! And Mitchell!

            • Jim S

              So please humor me, what definition of “developed” are you using?

            • CP

              He pitched his entire minor league career (parts of four seasons), plus made his major league debut for the Yankees. Just because they dealt him to get an MVP caliber CFer doesn’t remove the fact that he was developed by the Yankees.

              • Bum Rushed

                By your definition, Hughes and Joba were “developed” by the Yankees.

                Nope!

                • Jim S

                  At least we have a definition of “develop”.

                  You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

                • CP

                  They were developed by the Yankees.

                  Their success (or lack there of) is irrelevant to defining what team gets credit (or blame) for developing them.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          No mention of Arodys’ injury troubles but always bring them up with Hughes, eh? And I’m the one that’s inconsistent with my arguments.

          • Bum Rushed

            His injury troubles? It was one year. Ah, but of course! One year means everything to you!

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Do you mean 2009 when he only made ten starts then finished the season on the DL with a back strain? Or was it the partially torn elbow ligament in 2010? Or perhaps it was the little hamstring issue this year?

              • Bum Rushed

                So, being “injured” when you’re 18 or 19 is the same as being injured when you’re 21, 22, 23, and 24. Good to know.

                Of course, if you’re arguing against Arodys, then the same applies to Betances and Banuelos. Whoops!

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Holy shit is this funny. You’ve officially become a parody of yourself. Bravo.

                  • Bum Rushed

                    And when you’ve got nothing left you resort to insults. That speaks more to your intelligence than mine. Bravo!

                    • jsbrendog

                      i hope yoiu get banned

                    • Jim S

                      “Funny, then you have Alzheimer’s.”

                      –Bum Rushed August 15, 2011 at 1:17 pm

                • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                  wut

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  And just for the record, I’ve been saying Betances’ injuries have been a problem for about three years now. Banuelos had a blister and an appendectomy, only one can re-occur.

                  • jsbrendog

                    phew, so we’re in the clear for any future blisters?

                  • Bum Rushed

                    “And just for the record, I’ve been saying Betances’ injuries have been a problem for about three years now. ”

                    Ya think? Wow, please continue to share these “insights” with us.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      In Communist China, they ask you to prove that you aren’t a dissident.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Hey, you keep coming back.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      And I will. Someone here has to keep you honest.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      “keep you honest” what is this, the New York Times?

                      You’re on a fucking baseball blog! They give you free, high-quality content that leaves room for serious discussion… and you want to “keep them honest?

                      Are you fucking kidding me?

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Well, I am known to lie and cheat. The stats I use are not factual recordings of past events, but numbers I literally make up to fill my need. I figure all of you are too lazy to confirm.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Pretty much explains how you use statistics – selectively and to buttress your preconceived opinions.

                      Thanks for being honest!

        • Jim S

          Why would you use Noesi as an example of poor pitcher development? They may not be handling him well right now, but it’s not like he’s awful or injury plagued.

          • Bum Rushed

            “They may not be handling him well right now”

            Ummmmmmm…..

            • Jim S

              Development: not only the present. Includes the past. I see a solid middle reliever/potential #4/5 member of a solid rotation.

              • Bum Rushed

                Development does not equal 60 innings pitched in your age 24 season, not if there’s any hope him being a starter.

                • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                  There’s still hope for him to be a starter.

                  • Bum Rushed

                    Oh yeah? Based on what?

                  • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                    Based on the fact that 99% of all pitchers spend time in the bullpen, that he’s still healthy, and that he’s still effective.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Funny, but you ignore the organization, their patterns, and their results. Noesi is done starting for the NY Yankees.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      You have no support for this. “Patter”? Like what? Like transition Joba to the pen because he couldn’t handle starting? Is this one incident what you are basing everything off of?

                      Joba was a case of health. He never had the endurance for 200+ innings, IMO.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Joba couldn’t “handle” starting?

                      That shows how much you know.

                      One incident? Try the last 15 years. There’s Wang’s luckfest and Hughes’ injuryfest.

                      What else you got? Nova? To use Mike’s refrain, let’s see him repeat it.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      Wang: Injury. Not attributable to the org.

                      Hughes: Went a mile over the innings limit, directly attributable to the Yankees. He’s not “finished” though, and he’s been getting better.

                      That Joba has always been unhealthy (since before his signing) was not the Yankees’ fault, though they certainly did not help. This has nothing to do with Noesi, however, who is healthy and effective and could probably start tomorrow if need be.

                • Jim S

                  Yet again, I ask you, what definition of development are you using?

                  The kind that a lot of fans use that only includes steps forward? Or the kind that also allows for some small steps backwards either due to injury, effectiveness, or circumstance?

                  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                    You won’t get an answer. “Development” has to remain vague enough so that the Yankees are wrong all the time.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Reading is FUNdamental!

                    • Jim S

                      Sometimes I wonder if fans of all teams are as reactionary as Yankee fans.

                    • Jim S

                      You never defined development for me.

                      Still waiting.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      Red Sox fans are pretty bad, from what I’ve heard.

        • Jim S

          And nice job ignoring Nova since he doesn’t fit the narrative.

          • Bum Rushed

            You mean like how they sent him down for no good reason?

            • Jorge

              Your opinion: Not shared by everyone.

              He was sent down in order to remain stretched out when a regular member of the rotation returned from injury. Most people actually think it worked.

              • Bum Rushed

                Most people ignore that his best work occurred just as they were sending him down for no good reason.

                • Jim S

                  Say what you will, but to use Nova as an argument against pitcher development is ridiculous.

                  The Yankees have had to balance the needs of 6 pitchers this year. Nova had options left, and by all accounts developed his slider during that time he was sent down.

                  I’m not seeing the issue there.

                  • Bum Rushed

                    Hughes has options. Colon started the year in the pen. Burnett sucks.

                    That they chose how they did says everything about the current management.

                    • CP

                      It was 3 starts in AAA.

                      It’s not like he was sent to Siberia.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      You haven’t been watching the season, have you…

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Sure I have. Up to the 10 K start they were going to send Nova down again. His performance hardly support their ignorance.

                    • Jim S

                      “It’s not like he was sent to Siberia.”

                      Hey, I’m sure plenty of nice people live in Siberia!

                      Don’t forget, once you’re sent down to AAA it means your career is over and you were mishandled.

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      And after Nova struck out ten, they didn’t send him down!

                      So, let’s be logical here…

                    • Bum Rushed

                      They had no choice there. As it is, Cashman had to take to the FAN to defend a signing even worse than Pavano (who he did the same for).

                    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

                      The Pavano signing was a thousand times worse than Burnett, and besides, what does that have to do with this? Every time you start losing the argument you change the subject. I hope you get banned, troll.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      Ah, I see now why you all respond as Mike does. When you have nothing left, you resort to insults. It says much more about your intelligence than mine.

                    • Jim S

                      You told Mike he must have Alzheimer’s.

                      Pot, kettle.
                      Kettle, pot.

                    • Bum Rushed

                      First three years:
                      Pavano: -0.1 fWAR for $30M
                      Burnett: 3.4 fWAR for $49.5M

                      Ok, you got me!

                • Jorge

                  They/us/whoever didn’t ignore it. Even the team admitted that it was a tough break for him at the time. It was what it was. It broke my heart to see him sent down at that time. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t the right call.

        • Jorge

          My god, you have a crystal ball. What ARE the winning Pick 3 numbers tonight?!

          The trade is already, as we speak, not haunting the organization, and that will hold even if Arodys Vizcaino goes on to have a 300-win career. Talk to me when this trade causes the New York Yankees to fall into a malaise in which they finish at the bottom of the division for ten years…..all because of Arodys F’ng Vizcaino and his current cup of coffee in the big leagues.

          • Jorge

            Also, didn’t Jo-Jo Reyes come up through this “pitcher’s organization?” Didn’t Kyle Davies?

            This might predate you, Bum, but didn’t Steve Avery?

            • jsbrendog

              millwood. marquis. so many average to below average ml pitchers.

              • Jorge

                But it’s obviously a “pitcher’s organization,” so none of these guys could have ever not reached their potential. No no no. Not in Atlanta, and not on Bum Rushed’s clock.

                The Yankees, of course, don’t even know how to point a young pitcher towards the mound, which explains how Phil Hughes and David Robertson have made the All Star Team the past two seasons.

              • Jim S

                Millwood was actually good for a while.

                Averaged 3.9 WAR from 98-2009 if you take out his shortened 01 seasons.

                • Jim S

                  And 5 seasons of 4+ WAR(fangraphs style).

                  Yeah, I dunno, maybe don’t include him in the list of average to mediocre pitchers.

                  Overall point stands though.

                  • jsbrendog

                    not to mention the fact that they didnt draft or develop maddux either. and smoltz was obtained via trade (although he could be considered developed by them)

                    what do you have, smoltz, glavine and millwood? in how man years? 3 decades?

                    • Jim S

                      Yeah. People don’t realize how damn hard it is to develop an ace-caliber pitcher. Felix Hernandez/Justin Verlander et al don’t come a long every day.

        • CS Yankee

          If Vizcaino is better than the B’s & the Yankees have no clue in regards to pitchers or trades…why shouldn’t they have traded him?

          If he can’t be developed by this organization, as you state, why not get rid of him and any other pitching prospect when they have value?

          Joba was drafted injured and he returned to form…get over it. Hughes & IPK had their injuries and issues as well. IPK led to Grandy; who is a MVP-type player on & off the field.

          The NYY front office bats around .300; this equate them to always be in the top 5 teams every year (less ’08)…no other team is close to that.

    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

      Let’s not forget what Melky did to Cano, too!

      /NotSerious’d

      • Jorge

        Do you realize how much better tail Robbie is getting now that he hangs out with Alex? No more “hey, let’s see who we can impress driving by the bodega and leaning back.” Seriously. Robbie has to have nailed a couple of rejects from Playboy’s Online Backup Centerfolds by this point.

    • Jim S

      Dunn has a 4.88 bb/9.

      Boone logan has a 9.4 k/9 and a 3.34 bb/9.

      Yeah I’ll take Logan, thanks.

  • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

    No pitcher with a 1-8 record can be “sneaky good.” It’s just not possible.

    Sincerely,
    Michael Kay

  • Kilgore Trout

    If Ozzie says Bruce Chen ain’t any good then he ain’t any good. We should be able to take at least 2/3 from these bums and hopefully take over the lead in the division. Burnett got a stay of excution and he would be wise to show something tonight against a poor ballclub.

    • JohnC

      Remember last year and what Brian Bullington did to Yanks in KC. Now he is unemployed

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        He is employed, just in Japan.

  • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

    Don’t think I didn’t see that September schedule post!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Grumble grumble. Premature publish. A lot of bloggers my age have that problem.

      • jsbrendog

        icwudt

  • Jorge

    I love how, every year, by the time we face the Kansas City Royals this time of year, the pitchers we faced at the start of the year are no longer there.

    2 out of 3, which will include one frustrating loss which will bring about game thread apocalypse.

  • Virgina Wolfe

    Obvious troll be obvious

  • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

    why the fuck is this about Melky. Who cares.

    • Jim S

      Because people realized it was a really easy topic to troll the rest of us with.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Yeah really, done with that argument.

        • Bum Rushed

          You’re only done with arguments where you’ve been proven wrong. The others you just beat to death.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Hah, look in the mirror brainiac.

            • Bum Rushed

              And see someone good looking AND smart? I already know I’m both.

              • Jim S

                I think you win. Troll mission complete, you definitely got everyone up in arms over nothing.

                Well done.

            • Jim S

              Please don’t encourage him, at least as far as bandying insults is concerned.

              • Jim S

                Jim S: Not listening to his own advice est. 1987.

    • Rick in Boston

      It gives the anti-Cashman crowd something to talk about.

    • Jorge

      Because it’s a bad thing to some when the guy you trade winds up having a good year. These guys are supposed to know their role, shut their mouth, and suck no longer they’re New York Yankees.

      I’m incredibly happy for Melky. Love the guy. Always have. I’ll love him even if he signs with Boston one day (note to Melky: NEVER DO THAT.) He was going to get squeezed out of this lineup eventually.

      But you’re right, and I just re-fell right into that trap by talking about Melky.

      Like I said, two out of three, including one mind-numbing loss during which you probably won’t want to read the game thread.

      • Jim S

        Learning to avoid the game threads: good for your sanity.

        • Melky

          You’re doing a good job at avoiding game threads.

          The holier-than-thou attitude is incredibly discouraging. If you can’t engage in a discussion and come out of it gaining knowledge you need to go back to school and learn how to be an adult.

          It was a very enlightening discussion and I learned a lot from those involved. It’s not a matter of being right or wrong it’s a matter of talking Yankees – whether it’s something as asinine (according to some) as Melky Cabrera, or as important as Burnett’s hairstyle.

          • Jim S

            This is umm, not a game thread.

            • Jorge

              He’s also not the real Melky. Could be Mesa.

              • Jim S

                *Light bulb turns on*

                Genius.

                • Rick in Boston

                  This whole thread is a swing and miss, so it could easily be Mesa.

                  • jsbrendog

                    ::golf clap::

          • Jim S

            And for the record, if you enter the madness that is a game thread, you won’t find discussions like this.

            This is light years above a game thread discussion. Which says a lot about game threads.

            • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

              I can’t wait for tonight when Burnett collapses in the fourth and the Yankees get shut down and everyone is instantly in an uproar about The Yankees offensive inconsistency/Burnett’s shittiness/Girardi’s stupidity/How Melky would have won this for us.

              • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

                don’t forget how Russell Martin called ALL TEH WRONG PITCHES!!!11!1

          • jsbrendog

            this is batshit insane.

            a) you cant tell anyone about knowledge when you completely disregard defense and other statistics.

            b) name calling and saying someone else isnt an adult makes you the child.

            c) whether you participated in constructive discourse or not your point is extremely damaged by point a and your association with bum rush (which is no fault of yours for him having the same opinion, just saying) who has proven to be unable to grasp reasonable thought.

            im gla you feel you learned soemthing. lets try to keep the insults out and be able to engage in positive convo.

            and seriously, the longer you’re here the more you’ll hate and learn to avoid game threads

        • Jorge

          Nothing more fun than endlessly needling one of our resident boo-birds during a game thread sometimes, though.

    • Melky

      Obviously everyone involved in the conversation. Running away from discussions is also mature.

      • Jim S

        Logical consistency and fact based arguments are good bases for discussion.

        “Melky is and always has been a better hitter than Brett Gardner”, in the face of conflicting evidence, is not a good base for a discussion.

        • Melky

          According to their LD/GB Hr/FB rates Melky has always been significantly better at hitting baseball. And the much maligned eye test shows more of the same.

          Gardner is a slap hitter, Melky isn’t.

          • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

            So?

          • Jim S

            Lets use your favorite stat, oWar.

            2010 Melky Cabrera: .2 oWAR.
            2010 Brett Gardner: 3.3 oWar.

            • jsbrendog

              pwned.

              but last year doesn’t count cause melky is hitting his prime now!!!! so they shouldve kept paying him $3+ mill to be one of the worst players in the entire league knowing he would break out

              CASHMAN SUCKS!

            • Jim S

              Melky salary 2010: 3.1 million.

              $15.5 million per oWar.

              Gardner salary 2010: 453,000.
              $137,272 per oWar.

          • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

            I don’t give a shit how Melky hits the ball, because Gardner gets on base on more. In the world of run value, walks~singles. And Gardner, overall, has a way, way better chance of getting on base than does Melky.

            Also, Melky is kinda slow. This is fine if you’re Robbie Cano and you drive the ball four hundred feet, but he’s not, so it doesn’t help. Gardner’s speed is an almost unquantifiable asset that helps the team that Melky doesn’t and never will have, not to the extent that Gardner does.

            Speaking of unquantifiable assets, defense. Melky isn’t even average; He can’t get to the ball, and he can’t get it back. Gardner, on the other hand,gets to balls that no one else can get to, and the fires them back with such consistency he is rated as an elite defender. He saves this team countless runs. Do you honestly watch baseball?

  • steve s

    As to the Melky debate, I think it is naive to think that jettisoning Melky was purely a baseball decision. Perhaps Cashman will shed light on that decision one day when he writes the definitve book of his Yankee years.

    • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

      “Baseball, Bread and Bitches: The True Story of Brian Cashman, Yankees GM 1998 – 2156″

      • Rick in Boston

        Well, it’s “GM 1998-2012″, then “Emperor 2013-2156″ after he gets Jeter, A-Rod and CC to buy out the Steinbrenners for him.

    • Rich in NJ

      Even if he leaves the Yankees, the Brothers Steinbrenner could offer him a golden parachute tied to a confidentiality agreement.

      /partial sarcasm

  • CS Yankee

    I’ll be making my first visit to Kaufman this Wednesday and would be honored to but Ben a beer if he has time. Plan on seeing the N/L HoF on Thursday as well.

    • Laurie

      I’m there too! Were are your seats and what’s your name?

  • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

    Most interesting series preview ever? Most interesting series preview ever.

  • Jonathan

    Sorry Mike, you heard wrong. The ballpark is lame and highlighted by the most annoying wannabe strip club announcer guy and the dumbest fans who think they know EVERYTHING about the game. The people working there are total dicks and if they weren’t my only shot to see the Yankee’s 3 times a year i’d be praying for contraction.

    • Jim S

      But it looks pretty on TV!

  • bonestock94

    Just looked at Melky’s wRC+, in his entire 6 year career this is the first year he’s had one above 100. Impassioned Melky defenders are likely to look stupid in the future.

    • jsbrendog

      seriously. we’re all just waiting….

      • Jim S

        He left. Once your one talking point gets exposed as nonsense, you cover your eyes, shout “LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU!” and run away.

      • Jim S

        And I enjoy how Bum Rushed completely gave up the Melky argument because he realized how silly it was, and switched to arguing about something else completely ridiculous.

        I’m not even sure anyone knows what the argument’s about anymore.

        • https://twitter.com/TheRealJeromeS Jerome S.

          Fear and Loathing on RAB 2011

        • jsbrendog

          i hope he gets banned. in fact im shocked he hasnt. this is the 10th thread i feel like hes carpet bombed while lobbing insults around

          • Jim S

            He’s the literal definition of a troll.

            And apparently telling someone they have Alzheimer’s is…funny? Hip? Apparently he’s never had a family member go through that.

            • jsbrendog

              for that i hope he gets banned as well. he deserves it

  • Crime Dog

    Melky and Bum Rushed will have won the 2011 hindsight World Series in the year 2014. Sheesh, the amount of anger over losing a guy who was going to be non-tendered and was pretty bad last year is amazing.

    • Jim S

      The worst part is I loved Melky. I want him to do well! I really do not enjoy getting into discussions where I’m forced to point out his flaws.

      Sigh.

      • Betty Lizard

        Right there with you. Loved Melky; was sad to see him go; want him to do well (just not necessarily in games against the Yankees).

        I lost intelligence just glancing at this thread, and that’s just sad because usually RAB makes me smarter.

  • Nigel Bangs

    Wow. Trolls + succumbing to them has made this post’s comment section completely unreadable. Very lame.

    • Sayid J.

      I don’t think they are trolls though. That’s unfair. They just legitimately think Melky is better than Gardner and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Even if it’s somewhat irrational or not backed up by all of the data, they aren’t trolling.

      • Jim S

        You can still be a troll if you refuse to consider any opposing viewpoint.

        Or if you resort to “haha im better than you and whatever you say is irrelevant to me”

        Bum Rushed is a troll, whether he believe it or not.

  • Laurie

    To Ben: I will also be at the last two games of this series. I am flying out of Denver tomorrow morning. Maybe we could up for an hello. Anyone else who’s friend of the blog going to be there? A get-together might come in handy if they get a big rain delay.