Oct
17

Open Thread: No Baseball

By

Jerry Jr. had a sad last night. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Man, nothing sucks more than a night without baseball. Game Seven of the NLCS was supposed to be played tonight, but the Cardinals had to go and ruin it by clinching the pennant yesterday. Now we’ve got no baseball for not one, but two days, a harsh little reminder of what lies ahead starting in about ten days. Oh baseball, don’t leave me.

Here is your open thread for the night. The Jets and Dolphins are the Monday Night Football Game (8:30pm ET on ESPN), and that’s pretty much it for local sports. Sigh. Talk about whatever you want here, anything goes.

Categories : Open Thread

93 Comments»

  1. Brian S. says:

    So what would it take to pry Cory Luebke and Joe Thatcher away from the Padres?

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      Why would they need to? They already have the best bullpen in baseball.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        Not to mention they both suck ass.

        • Brian S. says:

          Luebke is actually awesome (he’s been a starter his whole career except for the first half of 2011) and Thatcher is a left handed reliever that can actually get lefties out (unlike Boone Logan).

          • Thomas Cassidy says:

            Unlike Logan? Logan did a decent job this season, and was great in the ALDS. Look at Thatcher’s stats this season, they’re shit. And he pitches in the NL West in PETCO. He would be worse than Felix Heredia.

            • Mike Axisa says:

              Thatcher threw ten innings this year because of shoulder surgery. I think it’s safe to say his performance in 2011 is meaningless. He crushed lefties last year.

              • Thomas Cassidy says:

                He was good last year, but I just wouldn’t want the Yankees to give up too much for another LOOGY when he’s only played in the NL West in PETCO.

                I think it’d be smarter to go after Randy Choate or just keep Logan.

            • Brian S. says:

              Thatcher threw ten innings this season in the majors because he was injured. TEN INNINGS. In his career he has a 2.62 FIP against left handed hittes. And Boone Logan sucks agaisnt left handed hitters, he has a reverse platoon split. It would be better to trade for a LOOGY than sign Javier Lopez to a two year ten million dollar contract with a club option like I know Cashman is going to do.

              • Thomas Cassidy says:

                That wouldn’t be Cashman, that would be Levine or the Steinbrenner’s. Choate or Logan. Or they can be smart and just forget about a LOOGY, because that’s another way of saying a half talented pitcher.

                • Brian S. says:

                  Cashman is the one who handed out the contracts to Marte and Feliciano. And I KNOW he is going to waste more money on middle relief this season with the likes of Javier Lopez or Jeremy Affeldt. That’s why I think trading for a LOOGY like Thatcher would be better, because he’s just barely arbitration eligible and would cost less than a million.

                  • Thomas Cassidy says:

                    I think he knows not to do that now. They don’t need to go out and make any bullpen moves right now, their bullpen was great this year, and it should be better because Soriano will probably rebound. They need to worry about their rotation, and look for 1 or 2 bats.

                    • Brian S. says:

                      I think our everyday lineup is already on the team. Unless by 1 or 2 bats you mean some bench players, in which yes I think that will be addressed this winter. I hope they can bring back Andruw Jones and maybe Eric Hinske.

              • Sarah says:

                Why give up prospects for middle relief?

                Lopez and Affeldt are perfectly decent LOOGYs, and won’t cost a prospect. Neither one is going to be horribly expensive (Affeldt is going to re-sign with the Giants anyways, they’ve already said they are committed to keeping him), and regardless the Yankees can afford to pay for one of them. Better to overpay in cash and keep the prospects.

        • Angelo says:

          How does someone with these peripherals suck?

          9.92 K/9 2.84 BB/9

          3.29 ERA and a 2.93 FIP

          • Mike Axisa says:

            I like Luebke, but I don’t think that accurately represents his true talent level.

          • Thomas Cassidy says:

            I’m talking more about Thatcher. Luebke is alright, but he’s also 27 years old, plays in that division, in that ballpark. Not impressive at all outside of his 9.9 k/9. That ERA is suddenly a 4.5 in the AL East.

            • Brian S. says:

              I doubt his ERA would jump to 4.5 in the AL East, that’s silly. How is a 2.93 FIP not impressive?

              • Thomas Cassidy says:

                Because he plays in a shitty division and the best pitcher’s ballpark.

                • Angelo says:

                  So does every pitcher that pitches for the Padres inherently terrible? You have absolutely nothing to support this stance.

                • Mike Axisa says:

                  He actually pitched much better away from Petco this year.

                • Brian S. says:

                  He does have to face other teams outside of the NL West too ya know. I could definitely see a spike in his HR/FB rate pitching half of his games in Yankee Stadium but he strikes out a lot of batters and limits walks. His career high IP is 139.2 so he would probably have to be on an innings limit but I was just throwing out this idea to start a conversation, that’s all.

            • Angelo says:

              He’s not necessarily a product of Petco Park. That’s taking the easy way without analyzing the numbers:

              Home 8.61 K/9 3.16 FIP 3.37 xFIP

              Away 11.21 K/9 2.70 FIP 2.68 xFIP

              Luebke actually pitched much better away from Petco.

              This could also be the product of a sample size of only 139 innings, but to suggests that because he pitches in Petco, he’s not a good pitcher, is a poor way to analyze a player.

              • Thomas Cassidy says:

                Sorry, I’m never wrong. Didn’t know he was that good away though. I would still pass because their problem isn’t in the bullpen. It’s the rotation.

                • Brian S. says:

                  Luebke would be in the rotation yo.

                  • Thomas Cassidy says:

                    It depends on what the Yankees give up for him. Obviously no Montero, Betances, Banuelos.

                    Looking at his stats, I’d say Warren, Phelps, and Joseph.

                • Angelo says:

                  Luebke would be a starter, not a reliever.

                  My argument isn’t for the Yankees to trade for him (because I don’t see the Padres letting him go), but it is that Luebke, 26 was a valuable commodity last season.

      • Angelo says:

        Luebke was a starter in the later half of the season. And is probably a starter long term.

    • Angelo says:

      Why would the Padres trade Luebke? It’s nice to dream, but if we’re being realistic, it’s just not going to happen.

    • Jumpin' Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge) says:

      A GM who continues to have a hard-on for meaningless relievers, maybe?

  2. Thomas Cassidy says:

    Any chance the Yankees go after Oswalt next year if the Phillies let him walk?

    Sabathia
    Oswalt
    Nova
    Burnett
    Hughes

    Looks pretty good to me.

    • vin says:

      There’s bigger fish to catch after next season. But if he’s the only one left… maybe?

    • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

      I don’t know, I’m not sure how well a career NL pitcher (albeit a very good one) would handle the AL East in the later parts of his career. Plus, he was injured for much of the year and probably would want a multiyear deal.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        I think a 3/36 would get it done. I think Oswalt would be alright. I’d rather they sign him than Wilson or Darvish. Unless the price for Darvish is low, of course, which it won’t be.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Oswalt’s kinda scary. His back problems were so severe earlier this year that he was talking about retirement.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        Aceves had some back issues too. I’d take the risk on him. I don’t like Wilson, and I’m not sold on Darvish yet. The only problem is Oswalt’s age. What is he, 34?

        • Mike Axisa says:

          One data point of a pitcher overcoming back trouble doesn’t mean every pitcher. You’re talking 3/36, there’s a ton of risk associated there, which is kinda funny because you wrote off some Padres pitchers because of Petco so quickly earlier in the thread.

          • Thomas Cassidy says:

            But Oswalt is better than Luebke. I’m not saying the Yankees SHOULD go after him, just wondering if they should or not. I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking. 12 million a year isn’t too bad. Maybe 8 million base with 4 million in incentives. But I don’t think he’d want a contract like that.

    • MannyGeee says:

      I like Oswalt as an option but not at the price he’ll command. 3/36 sound about right to me for a guy of his caliber, but at his age that seems like a gamble for the seasons of straight decline

  3. Mantle28 says:

    Baseball ended on October 6th.

    • Keeeenny says:

      Remember, fellas, that Roy Oswalt was the ace of the Astros for a good amount of time. Just because he’s a diminishing 4th starter for the Phils doesn’t mean he doesn’t have another 2-3 years left in him until his back falls off. Price? A tad high, perhaps, but if there isn’t anyone else left I wouldn’t mind netting him with a two year deal

  4. David N says:

    Yeah, I feel bad for Jerry Jr.

    But I feel good for Lance Berkman moving on. Hope he tears up Texas.

  5. Brian S. says:

    So what do you guys think will end up happening with Montero? Not what you WANT to happen but what you think actually WILL happen? I predict that Montero will have a Victor Martinez/Mike Napoli role on the team, splitting time at catcher and DH. I really hope they decide to let Montero play a position because while the DH spot may be open for the next two years, in 2014-2015-2016 Alex Rodriguez will be 38-39-40 and making 26-22-21 million dollars. Likely too old to play the field everyday and too expensive to become a bench player.

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      I think the problem with A-Rod playing the field will be his health, not his glove. If he can stay healthy, they won’t need him at DH. Unfortunately, he probably will never be healthy for a full season again.

      I think Montero will be the DH with some time behind the plate, and Cervelli backing up Martin once in a while, too. Assuming that Martin is back, of course.

      • Brian S. says:

        I think A-Rod will be fine at third base this year and the next but he will be 38 (turning 39 halfway through the year) in 2014. I think that’s the year he may need to become the DH.

        • Thomas Cassidy says:

          I think it depends on the health. Some old players can still field (Omar Vizquel). I hope he stays healthy. If he does, he is still capable of putting up a .305/40/125. That changes the line up completely. And I think he sucked this postseason because he was hurt.

          • MannyGeee says:

            His days days of .305/40/125 went the way of Kate Hudson I’m afraid… Now we’re stuck with Cameron Diaz & .285/30/90 with a great glove when he’s right (read: still not horrible for athe common man, BUT I think we would all rather Kate Hudson than Cameron Diaz….)

      • Keeeenny says:

        How does a Montero DH vs. LHP/ Backup catcher hybrid sound? Not saying I support it, but I’m trying to get opinions

    • Angelo says:

      I don’t really know where he would play. Teix isn’t going anywhere. Nothing says that Montero is capable of playing third base or any other position for that matter. I’d love for him to work out at catcher, but there’s been questions about his ability to catch, for several years.

      He’ll either be traded to team that believes he can learn first base or play catcher. On the Yankees he’s a DH/C, that will hopefully be able to play 100 games at the catcher position (even if he’s a below average defensive catcher) for the next few years, followed by taking over first base once Teixeira’s contract is up.

      That’s the best case scenario in my eyes. This season I expect him to catch 40-50 games, and DH about 90-110 games. There’s a decent amount of value in that if he hits well.

  6. Steve S. says:

    What do you guys think about Gio Gonzalez?

    Plus-Young, lefty, throws hard, misses bats.

    Minus-Walks too many, H/R splits are scary.

    • Steve S. says:

      Sherman says Beane wants “Ace return” but away from the Oakland Collesium, he’s more of a #3. Maybe he’d be better in YS3, or maybe the AL East will chew up his unwillingness/inability to throw strikes.

    • Angelo says:

      Maybe I misread recently, but I believe I read that Oakland wants an ace pitching prospect in return, and Gio Gonzalez is not an ace if you ask me.

      • Steve S. says:

        You may be right, but I took “ace return” to mean a package of prospects one would expect an ace to bring back. I don’t think Beane wants an actual ace who he’d have to pay.

      • MannyGeee says:

        Beane just might be fucking insane if he wants an ace return for Gio… And I REALLY like Gio… But sme asshole will give it to him. Some asshole always does.

  7. Grit Storage says:

    I’m kind of enjoying all Red Sox fanboys slowing coming to the realization that no, Theo going to the Cubs is not going to bring back Starlin Castro and/or Matt Garza as compensation.

    And a Red Sox organization “with all the leverage” is not going to convince the Cubs to take on $100+ Million of Crawford contract or take Lackey off their hands. Red Sox are probably going to end up with a couple of middling prospects and if they get lucky the prospects will have some upside.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Meanwhile, the Red Sox have ZERO leverage, because the alternatives are to either:

      1) bring back a disgruntled GM to drive a very large market team into flames even further, or
      2) Buy Theo out so that he can sign as the Cubs GM next off season anyways.

      No win situation, take your two shitty prospects and start fresh.

  8. Steve S. says:

    Do the Cards pick up Wainwright’s option? 9 mil, so it ain’t cheap. If not, I’d LOVE to work out a Jon Leiber deal with him or maybe even do a sign and trade with the Cards.

  9. Joe says:

    Just wondering if anyone knows the contract situations of a few players? R.Pena,Cervelli,Golson,Russo,Maxwell,Kontos,Wordekemper,Whelan,E.Nunez,Colin Curtis. Thanks!

  10. Craig says:

    So, according to MLBTR– the Red Sox wanted Matt Garza for Theo.

  11. a.hinds says:

    there is something so. surreal/ludicrous about all of this baseball money talk in the middle of the wall st. protest. ive been drinking the koolaide tho, the “we are the 99%” koolaide, and to read the comments about weather CC will get more than 5 years and 140 million dollars is kinda painful.

    i wish i had no idea how much money is involved in baseball. there is something not right about the money being spent here, im not sure what it is tho… i love baseball and the yankees more than just about anything outside of the fam and friends but their is something fucked about about the business side of it…

    of course they resigned arod for 300 million after he opted out… the steinbrenners dont have to pay for it. we do. the fans do… ticket prices… mlb tv package… we end up paying for all of this shit somehow. im sure the steinbrenners make a profit from arod’s contract or not they are not doing it.

    why not pay cc at 7 years 148 million or w/e. they dont have to pay for it, WE DO, the fans do.. and if your a fan and you cant afford it. well dont come to the baseball game go buy a yankees hat. or have the city council and rudy giuliani take your tax dollars. the payroll taxes and social security that they TAKE to finance the stadium that you cant afford to buy a beer in.

    so when we shell out the money to cc. (i hope we do) remember its YOUR money. this is why you should be upset. the steinbrenners get to pay arod because they know its not really going to hurt them. its going to hurt me and you when insted of being able to see 20 games a year we can only see 10.

    i guess my point is that we should occupy yankee stadium. yes to get our 1.5 trillion dollars back (imagine how that would help,… lets say the school systems, imagine using a fraction of that money to renovate neighborhood baseball fields, so more inner-city kids like myself could play baseball growing up)

    but we occupy yankee stadium to let the stienbrenners know. to think twice before they do something dumb like signing a 34 year old shortstop to a 10 year 270million dollar deal. maybe if hal was on the REALLY risking HIS money and HIS COMFORT he might think twice before going over brian cashmans head…. this is why we should occupy yankee stadium!!!

    imagine if hal stienbrenner was REALLY on the hook for the 100 milion or so the yankees(really us taxpayers) owed arod back in 2007. would he had done it. No F*ck Way! we would probably have a better baseball product on the field…

    • Jumpin' Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge) says:

      ….or you could just go root for the Rays and kid yourself into having a clear conscience.

      • a.hinds says:

        but i can’t, baseball is my escapism. its what i do. i come to this website about 10 times a day. i love this team. i have an emotional bond with this team. it might just be pathetic… im an emigrated to new york from barbados when i was 4 years old i didnt fall in love with the game and the yankees until 2000 when i was 13 years old. i can’t pick up and go root for the rays. or the mets or the pirates. im a new yorker.

        im a yankee fan for life… ive drank the koolaide and im fine with that. but it dosnt mean i cant think critically about the franchise and all the shady shit their doing financially to screw fans over. when they do screw fans over….

        signing soriano to a 30 million dollar deal is fucked up/dumb but what allows them to make bad
        financial decisions is that their not on the hook. WE are.

        so as die hard yankees fans…. who wants to go occupy yankee stadium?

        • Jetrer says:

          “what allows them to make bad
          financial decisions is that their not on the hook. WE are.”

          Not true. If they waste money, it affects how much they profit. They set prices based on what people are willing to pay, not based on what they spend. Spending less won’t make them charge any less, it will just give them higher profits. Soriano’s contract has virtually zero impact on how much people are charged at the Stadium.

          • a.hinds says:

            okay. your comment is a hard pill for me to swallow, i dont have any evidence saying that because they have such an expensive product on the field they charge more money for it. so ill let it go.. until i can figure out why what you said seems so wrong…

            but my question to you Jetrer is should be we regulating their profits? i mean taxpayers payed 1.4 trillion for the stadium…. we funded it but they get to keep about 99 percent of the profits from the stadium…. obviously corporate wellfair…

            now should we be asking for our money back?

            and all of this…

            Of $1.5 billion sought for the stadiums, city and state taxpayers would pick up half the tab for construction, $800 million, along with $390 million on extra transportation.[14] The plan also said that the teams would be allowed to keep all parking revenues, which state officials had already said they wanted to keep to compensate the state for building new garages for the teams.[15] The teams would keep 96% of ticket revenues and 100% of all other revenues, not pay sales tax or property tax on the stadium, and would get low-cost electricity from the state of New York.[15] Business officials criticized the plan as giving too much money to successful teams with little reason to move to a different city.[15]

            • Midland TX says:

              Don’t worry. Former Deputy Mayor Randy Levine is now set for life with the team that benefits from the sweetheart deal you mention that he negotiated with Doctoroff, interpreting the revenue-sharing and luxury-tax agreement he negotiated, and of course Guiliani has his lifetime hall pass for the playoffs.

  12. Steve S. says:

    And I expect Sabathia to be a hard-line bargainer again whether he likes it in New York or not – and the way I hear it is that he and his wife, Amber, really do like living in New Jersey/New York; but that the cold winters are not something that the whole family is crazy about. Also, in Greg Genske, Sabathia has an agent that one GM Sunday described to me as a coldly effective operator who he does not imagine giving discounts. I fully expect the Sabathia camp to make two points:

    1) When A-Rod opted out of his 10-year, $252 million deal, the Yankees went over that total with a 10-year, $275 million deal. They did this though A-Rod had turned 32 the previous July, had not delivered a championship to New York and was viewed at that time as a divisive force in the clubhouse. So why shouldn’t the Yankees give Sabathia more than the seven years at $161 million considering that he only turned 31 in July, has delivered a championship and is viewed as a uniting force in the clubhouse.

    2) The Yankees offered Cliff Lee seven years at $146 million last year after he had turned 32 and done nothing yet for the Yankees. Sabathia again is 31 and has done plenty for the Yankees, and why should he accept an offer that is one penny less than seven years at $146 million?

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....z1b5h04Puw

    CC aint coming cheap, or he’s hitting the market.

  13. a.hinds says:

    and a conspiracy theory…

    arod opted out with about 90 million left on the table from the rangers… right? thats a pretty chunky subsidy… right? but why did he do it? why would the owner of the yankees allow him to do that? why would arod help the rangers out like that? i mean the yankees supposidly were willing to sign him to a 150 million dollar extension.. but he opted dispite of media reports like this…

    “George Steinbrenner’s oldest son, Hank, told the New York Times on Sunday night that the team is planning to cut ties with Rodriguez. “It’s a shame,” Hank Steinbrenner said. “But we are all in agreement: myself, my dad, my brother, all the baseball people. If you don’t want to be a Yankee and paid what you’re being paid, we don’t want you, that’s the bottom line. You’d be hard-pressed to argue that point. If you don’t understand the magnitude of being a Yankee and understand what that means, and being the highest-paid player in baseball, I think it’s pretty obvious”

    “If we’re going to make you rich and we’re going to give you the privilege of being a Yankee,” he added, “you’ve got to show us you want to be here.”"

    we later found out that they were willing to give him the farm. i think the knew all along he was going to opt out then they were going to pay him a ton of money. and one of the reasons was probably to help tom hicks with his financial woes ….

    remember they are all the 1% and are in the club together, maybe they sat around and decided to help tom hicks out… is this at all possible?? and if not, whats an alternative reason for arod leaving 90 million dollars of ANOTHER TEAMS MONEY on the table… knowing fully well that HIS OWN TEAM would benefit from that.. the payroll break he, the rangers and his contract was providing…

    • Jetrer says:

      “and if not, whats an alternative reason for arod leaving 90 million dollars of ANOTHER TEAMS MONEY on the table”

      ummm, maybe because Yankees offer of 150M ext in addition to the 81M 3years he had remaining is much less than he ended up getting (275M-305M depending on HR’s)

      And he didn’t leave $90M from Texas on the table, Texas would only have been responsible for about $21.3M of the remaining 3 years had ARod not opted out

    • Accent Shallow says:

      Or, A-Rod thought he could get a better deal than what he had, because he was on the market.

      • a.hinds says:

        this makes sense, good point. thanks for refuting my garbage conspiracy theory. sometimes one cant see how silly they are. i appreciate this. what do you think about occupying yankee stadium… as a way to put political pressure on the city and the yankees to start paying back some of that fucking money? honestly, how do you feel about that idea?

        • Steve S. says:

          I like you bro. You fly off the handle, then come quickly back down to earth.

          • Steve S. says:

            BTW-’Occupy Yankee Stadium’ is a hilarious idea. I’m going to forward that to NoMaas.

            • a.hinds says:

              i like to think of myself as the most reasonable man in america so yeah, i come back down pretty quickly… but i dont think Occupy Yankee Stadium is hilarious, im dead serious. and im gonna propose it to the “general assembly” tomorrow in person!, i think its something that needs to be done, but the march to the bronx from wall st. would be epic… and its not just the yankees its all the nyc sports teams playing in fancy buildings….

              im gonna do this. im gonna try my hardest to make occupy yankee stadium happen i just hope if it works(gets some atttention, gets 300 people up there) it doesnt stop the yankees from throwing a ton of money at cc safatia. (he’s really fat) and not like nfl center or tackle athletic fat. he’s like…. really fat… but we need him. i need him or not its gonna fuck up my summer in 2012.

            • JohnnyC says:

              He read it in today’s Phil Mushnick column in the Post. It was the last item in his piece. And they say that originality is dead. Pshaw.

      • Steve S. says:

        Too simple. There must be a grand, elaborate plot somewhere that everyone has managed to keep quiet, even after Hicks went through bankruptcy proceedings and all his assets and liabilities were made public.

  14. Jesse says:

    At the most random time of the day today, I realized the most random thing about the Yankees.

    The Yankees have played an AL Central team in the ALDS every year except for 2005 when they played the Angels and 2008 when they missed the playoffs (sadface).

    2003: Twins
    2004: Twins
    2005: Angels (N/A)
    2006: Tigers
    2007: Indians
    2008: No playoffs
    2009: Twins
    2010: Twins
    2011: Tigers

    Now, just because seven of their last eight ALDS’ are against AL Central opponents doesn’t mean if they make the playoffs next year they’ll play an AL Central opponent in the first round. But don’t be surprised if they do.

  15. Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

    Reverse lock:

    http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/.....-six-games

    I mean, last year Chuck Greenburg said the Rangers would come back and win in 7, and they promptly lost game 5. In 2009, Jimmy Rollins said the Phillies would win in 5, maybe 6 games “if they’re lucky” and the Phillies pretty much got destroyed that series. You’d think they’d learn…

  16. insert something witty here says:

    test

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