Open Thread: The Old Bullpen


That doesn’t look very welcoming, does it? That’s a picture of the bullpen (presumably the home bullpen) at the Old Yankee Stadium, a grimy place that looks more like a Penn Station bathroom than a place where million dollar athletes spend the big chunk of their day. I’m certain the New Stadium has state-of-the-art bullpen quarters, or at least I hope it does for the relievers’ sake. Yuck. The picture comes courtesy of Andy Gray, by the way.

Anyway, here is your open thread for this baseball-less night. The Rangers are playing, but they’re on the west coast and don’t start until 10pm ET. That’s it for local sports. What a depressing weekday evening. Talk about whatever you want here, have at it.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Mike Axisa says:

    What the hell am I supposed to do tonight?

  2. Brian S. says:

    I bet Yonder Alonso or Logan Morrison ends up in Tamapa Bay. Who would you rather our divison rivals get?

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      I don’t think it really matters. They both have about the same upside. I just hope the Rays trade Shields, even though they won’t.

  3. Craig says:

    Anyone predicting a big trade for the Yankees this offseason like 09?

    • Brian S. says:

      I actually don’t think we will make any significant trades this winter. We need a pitcher and a bench piece or two and those can be signed on the free agent market.

    • radnom says:

      What was the big trade in 09? Swisher?

      Easy to forget that was the same year with Tex/AJ/CC also coming on board.

      I think a pitching trade is very possible, depends on how things shake out though can’t predict this early.

  4. Jumpin' Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge) says:

    Love the old boombox, what looks like a mosquito-zapping light, and bag of Snickers there. For the love of David Wells, I hope there was a privacy door leading to that toilet.

    New stadium bullpen toilet probably has IPads loaded with toilet games.

  5. pat says:

    The SABR episode of The Simpsons is on right now.

  6. Jumpin' Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge) says:

    This has been asked before, but its open thread, so I’ll risk getting yelled at…..I actually really did just join Twitter (you three are great on it, btw.) Who would be on your ideal “follow” list?

    • Paul VuvuZuvella says:

      Go to Mikes account and check out who he is following. Add those.
      Go to your favorite public figure (Howard Stern? Keith Olberman? Dalai Lama? Katie Couric? IDK, whoever it is, you know) – Lather Rinse Repeat.

    • Sarah says:

      If you aren’t a Keith Law hater, follow him. He’s very snarky and awesome.

  7. bexarama says:

    I know it’s a dumb St. Louis/Rangers World Series but holy shit no baseball is awful. It’s gonna be a looooong winter.

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      Ehhh, I doubt it…lots of storylines:

      Albert Pujols
      Prince Fielder
      CC/Opt Out
      Theo in ChiTown
      What will Boston do to “restore order” (their words, not mine)
      Yu Darvish
      A lot of FO drama in multiple organizations
      There’s always trades that materialize

      Other story lines too, but those are just some off the top of my head. Some others will develop, obviously Cleveland will try to compete, SF will try to get better, and Detroit will probably do something dumb too.

  8. Brian S. says:

    So it’s a St. Louis-Texas World Series. I wonder if they will execute abortion doctors or beat up queers as pregame entertainment.

  9. Kevin says:

    For me, even though the signs were there all year for an early playoff exit it still stings. I stil feel that if we could have made it past the first round, the World Series Trophy was ours for the taking.
    But it is what is. I can at least pull out the 09 World Series Dvd to cheer me up.

  10. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Al Davis lives on.

  11. Jimmy McNulty says:

    So…Sabathia…anyone nervous about extending him? I mean, what will be the deal? I have a problem with signing him to a seven year deal after the opt out, he’s not Cliff Lee in terms of wear on his arm, command, and physical shape. Obviously, I want him back, but if it gets to be a bidding war…ooooh, could get ugly.

    • Jerome S says:

      Actually, in terms of long term durability, Sabathia > Cliff Lee.

      Come to think of it, I really can’t think of anyone else I’d rather have on a long deal; mind you, that doesn’t make this deal necessarily good. It’s just that CC’s track record of innings and injuries makes me believe he won’t break down anytime soon.

      Of course, I’m against a 7 year deal for anyone. But I see it as a bit of a necessary evil. Will we end up overpaying? Yeah. But I don’t care, really, as long as he’s not awful, and that’s something I doubt he will become.

      • A-Rod's Wingman says:

        He’s gained weight and had two knee surgeries. I mean obviously he’s been awesome and might have a Hall of Fame case in ten years but let’s not pretend like there’s no red flags.

  12. Thomas Cassidy says:

    Carlos Zambrano to the Marlins for prospects.
    Aramis Ramirez to the Marlins for 3 years.
    CJ Wilson to the Cubs for 5 years.
    Prince Fielder to the Cubs for 7 years.
    Albert Pujols stays in St. Louis for 8 years.
    Jonathan Papelbon stays in Boston for 4 years.
    Heath Bell to Philadephia for 3 years.
    Yu Darvish to Yankees for 4 years.
    Jose Reyes to Giants for 6 years.
    Jimmy Rollins stays in Philadephia for 4 years.
    David Ortiz stays in Boston for 2 years.
    Jorge Posada retires.
    Mark Buehrle stays in Chicago for 2 years.
    Bartolo Colon to the Red Sox for 1 year.
    Freddy Garcia to the Rangers for 1 year.
    Edwin Jackson stays in St. Louis for 3 years.
    Roy Oswalt stays in Philadelphia for 2 years.
    CC Sabathia resigns for 6 years.
    Jonathan Broxton to the Marlins for 2 years.

    That’s all I have.

    • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

      The Marlins won’t take on Zambrano’s contract, also I doubt they could afford Ramirez.
      The Red Sox would be CRAZY to give a reliever a 4 year contract.
      I think Garcia will either resign with the Yankees or go to the NL, same with Colon.
      Also, It will probably take more than a 4 year contract to get Darvish.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        Loria already said that they plan on spending a lot of money this offseason, Ramirez will probably get a low base high incentive deal because of his injuries.

        I could see 4 years for Papelbon, but more realistically a 3 year with an option.

        I’m not sure. I don’t think any team wants that big of a risk with a Japanese pitcher.

      • JohnnyC says:

        In 4 years Darvish will be 29…in prime position for another 4-5 deal at substantial dollars (especially if his first 4 years are successful). He’s younger than Dice-K was when he was posted (Matsuzaka is 32 in 2012). I’d be surprised if he signed for longer than 4-5 years. Also, factor in Darvish is already making 6.5 million USD right now.

    • radnom says:

      Hard to see Ortiz back with the Sox.

      I actually like the Zambrano to the Marlins prediction.

      I find it hard to believe that Theo would sign Prince and CJ for huge, long term deals in his first offseason. I don’t think the Cubs land either guy.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        I think they land Prince, but Wilson staying in Texas wouldn’t surprise me. The Cubs have a lot of money to spend, and they’re looking to win. Fielder would rake in that park, and he is already familiary with the pitching in that division.

        Should be a fun offseason.

      • A-Rod's Wingman says:

        Adding Wilson and Fielder is already adding about 12 wins.

    • Foghorn Leghorn says:

      I still think Papelbon leaves. The Sox are going to do something stupid and low ball him from the outset.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        Where do you think he goes? I guess Texas would be a possibility if they lose Wilson and convert Feliz into a starter.

        • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

          The Cardinals.

        • Foghorn Leghorn says:

          I don’t know but I’m pretty sure he won’t be in Boston. He’s always wanted to hit the FA market. He’s coming off a good year. The Sox are in a pretty desperate situation though because of Bard’s issues.

      • MannyGeee says:

        I have been saying this for years, the Sox FO has been ready to be done with him for YEARS. The fact that he has been cheap and (somewhat) effective is the only thing that has extended his stay at Fenway.

        I am predicting either the Mets or….. Tigers, cutting ties with Valverde.


        just happened

    • MannyGeee says:

      Dont think Boston will touch Colon (LOL, Boston is a bunch of Colon Touchers…) nor will TX touch Freddy. they are both candidates for NL West Jobs (Dodgers/Pads respectively…

      Ortiz is so outta Boston it almost hurts. Angels really feel like a fit to me, esp with Abreu’s 2012 season a team option…

      and in closing, I really think you are giving Loria too much credit in those kinds of signings… MAYBE Broxton to go along with the Savior Ozzie Guillen (that said, they willl be players for other guys… Reyes feels like a fit with Hanley moving over to 3rd, or vice versa)

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        Would the BoSox make a run for Reyes?

        • MannyGeee says:

          could… but they also have a nice cheap option on Scutaro. and they need at least a RF for next season (possibly a DH, C, & 5th Starter).

          and that doesnt even begin to touch the bullpen with Papelbon possibly on his way out and Bard doing his best impression of a dead bug this past season.

          and oh yeah, one more season of Dice K’s noodle arm.

  13. China Joe says:

    This from SI’s Joe Sheehan:

    “the Rangers have positioned themselves as the heir to the Red Sox’ throne as the dominant organization in the AL, not just financially, not just in the standings, not just in revenue, but in everything.”

    The Red Sox? Really? Did I miss something in the past 3-4 years?

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      “The Red Sox? Really? Did I miss something in the past 3-4 years?”

      What are you, an idiot? Have you ever heard of Jose Iglesias? Darnell McDonald? Ryan Kalish?

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      Yeah, well if the Cowboys are good there aren’t enough people in the Metroplex to really give a shit about the Rangers to give them sufficient revenue, whereas there’s 19M people in the NYC metro so there’s plenty of people to go around and support all the teams that the NYC metro has to offer, I’m unsure how the Rangers will fare when the Cowboys are Super Bowl contenders.

      • jay h says:

        not a problem, it’s the cowboys…

        • Jimmy McNulty says:

          The NFL’s pretty circular, it seems like every team has at least a shot at competing eventually. They have good pieces in place as it is, and Jerry’s gotta be on the verge of not being able to interfere eventually. When was the last time you saw a team with that kind of money and history in the NFL just go down the drain?

      • Sarah says:

        They will jump ship as soon as the Rangers suck. A town full of fair weather fans.

        • A-Rod's Wingman says:

          Fair weathered fans? Hardly. They say through three 5-11 Cowboys seasons, Dave Campo, Chan Gailey, and Quincy Carter yet they still pack that behemoth in Arlington. They can weather hard times in Texas. Look at the Governors they elect.

          • bexarama says:

            They’re pretty bandwagony baseball fans. Actually, that’s not true, indifferent is more accurate. They could win the World Series and most people would probably still care about the Cowboys more, no matter how bad they are this year. It’s just not a sport that’s really caught on there, ever. Granted the Rangers haven’t been very good for very long, but it just hasn’t, not like football.

            • Sarah says:

              Do you live here too? It’s a special place.

            • A-Rod's Wingman says:

              I agree in general, but UT’s baseball fans are as diehard as any and whenever they make the CWS they all travel to Omaha to support their team. Them and LSU are the best college baseball fans that I’ve ever seen.

              Granted some are just supporting their alma mater and UT is to universities as NYC is to cities, they have everything, but those are still people who follow baseball and support their team like none other. If the Rangers are able to get Longhorns fans interested in the Rangers then maybe they can get a sustainable fan base outside of the bandwaggoners they got.

          • Sarah says:

            The Ranger fans are fair weather.

            Cowboys fans are die hard.

        • MannyGeee says:

          LOL they’re like Rays fans with a better stadium. they show up in April and October. Let the Rangers be a .500 team in July and you will see Nolan Ryan’s “Get off my lawn” face in the stands and not much else.

    • JohnnyC says:

      Financially? Revenue? Sheehan is smoking something strong.

    • Zooboy says:

      Do they serve beer and fried chicken in Texas? Yeah, I can see them inheriting the Red Sox throne.

    • mbonzo says:

      Maybe for the next week they have. They’re losing CJ Wilson and the Red Sox are losing about 5 old guys on bad contracts. Red Sox have a better team as it is and will only become better. Remember that the Rangers only beat the Red Sox in the regular season by 6 games in a joke of a division.

      As for Revenue, Forbes predicts the Red Sox revenue sits at $272m this year and Texas is at $206m. The difference might not seem a lot, until you realize that the Red Sox have a much greater ability to lose money. The franchise is nearly worth $1 billion and the Rangers are worth a little more than half of that. This is exactly what the Red Sox did this year, posting a $-1.1m operating income, but they still made money. The Rangers ended up at $22.6m. So while it seems as if the Rangers could spend more money, when you look at their debt/value of 66%, which ranks second only to the Cubs, you see why a team like the Red Sox, who sits at 25%, can spend so much more. Basically, the Rangers can’t touch the Red Sox payroll, even if they win the 2011 World series.

      • JohnnyC says:

        Financially and revenue-wise, the Yankees blow both Texas and Boston out of the water. I don’t get what Sheehan’s talking about.

      • MannyGeee says:

        The Red Sox are losing 5 old guys but only one of them (JD Drew) is on a bad contract @ 14M. Varitek made $2M this season, $1m for Wake, Saltalamaccia was under 750K, Cameron was heavy at 7.5M, but Ortiz was actually a fair payout at 12.5M.

        • mbonzo says:

          Ortiz was worth the money this year, but the 2 years prior he was absolutely over paid, and I can safely say I would not give Ortiz 12.5m next year to be a declining 36 year old DH who never took care of himself.

          JD Drew was clearly not worth the money for next year.

          Mike Cameron, 4th outfielder at almost $8m, no thanks.

          Scutaro under performed his contract. I doubt they give him $6m to put up a 2ish WAR with average defense.

          They also lose, Wakefield, Varitek, Okajima, Wheeler, and Reyes who combined for a 1.7 WAR for $9.65m in 2011.

          In total they are losing 7.6 WAR from 2011 which they paid $49.4m for. Thats a lot of money, almost a third of their total payroll used for what ended up being 13% of their team WAR total.

          • Brian S. says:

            Half of their team is getting raises. After arbitration Boston will be around 150 million, and that’s without Ortiz, Papelbon, and letting Scutaro and Wheeler walk.

  14. jramey says:

    What happened to Marcus Thames after he signed with us this year?

  15. rally beer says:

    a grimy place that looks more like a Penn Station bathroom

    Big difference: you’re not going to find Mariano Rivera in a Penn Station bathroom.

    He instantly makes that a classy place.

  16. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    Mike…how did you get a photo of my apartment…for the love of God, this is embarrassing! At least I left the terlit seat down, ladies!

    Heyman had an interview today and said that the Bosox have all of the leverage with the Theo situation….I’ve read the same from numerous MSM outlets. I don’t see that at all. I feel like the Cubs could just tell the Sox to go suck it and move on. Am I wrong?

    • JohnnyC says:

      The answer is clearcut. You tell me if Lucchino really wants a lame-duck Epstein(whom he despises)to finish out his contract. They have no leverage…that’s why they asked for the sky at first. Doesn’t hurt to try, right? They’ll end up with a semi-non-prospect like Nutter. And like it.

    • Sarah says:

      Weird, everything I’ve seen says the Cubs are in the driver’s seat. The Sox don’t want lame duck/crabby Theo around, and the Cubs can look elsewhere.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        The Sox don’t want lame duck/crabby Theo around


        Tell that to the Sox fans that believe the FO would let Theo sit around for a yr and do nothing until his contract expires lol.

        • MannyGeee says:

          I sadi it yesterday, I will say it again today. the Red Sox will end up in one of three positions here:

          1) Forcing Theo’s hand, and give a disgruntled GM the keys to the castle (if you think the Crawford/Lackey deals are abortions, wait till you see the February Zambrano for Iglecias deal!)

          2) Paying him to go away for another year or 3 and not allowing him to take a job with another org until his contract expires, and paying for it financially

          3)cut bait, take the no name prospect, and start fresh…

          What part of ANY of that sounds like ‘upper hand’?

          • Foghorn Leghorn says:

            Door #3 sounds like the best option. what they hell do they care anyway? He’d be in the NL and the Cubs are far from being a good team.

            Luchino sounds like a stand up guy…

            • MannyGeee says:

              what gave that away…

              “Nomar is a quitter”, “Pedro is a Quitter”, Manny is a Quitter”, or “Tito had a drug problem and a shitty marraige that led to The Collapse…. and is a quitter”…

            • The Big City of Dreams says:

              what they hell do they care anyway? He’d be in the NL and the Cubs are far from being a good team.


              Exactly it’s not like he’s going to the Rays. He’s going to a different league. Ego has gotten in the way of rational thinking.

          • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

            I still can’t believe they thought they’d get Garza for Theo. Maybe next they try and trade Henry for tulo??

            • The Big City of Dreams says:

              Lol or the smart fans that believe anything less than two top ten spects from the cubs farm system is a rip off.

            • Ed says:

              They didn’t believe it. They believed that their first request would get rejected no matter what, so there was no reason to start with a realistic request.

              I imagine their strategy is simply to start with completely unrealistic demands and slowly lessen them until the Cubs say yes.

  17. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    34 yrs ago today, Reggie hit 3 bombs to beat LA!

    another interesting tidbit…when Reggie originally signed with the yanks he requested #42 in honor of Jackie Robinson but Billy Martin gave that number to Art Fowler. So if Reggie got his wish, I wonder what # Mo would’ve taken??

  18. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Hoyer might join Epstein in Chicago. What a scumbag, after letting AGon go for cheap he’s going to join his love interest.

    • Brian S. says:

      That Gonzalez trade was such bullshit. Maybe Oppenheimer will trade us Trout.

      • Kevin says:

        I have friends who are Padre fans that are still livid over that deal. They got junk in return for one of their star players.

        • Jose M. Vazquez.. says:

          Beware of trading with the Red Sox. The only good player they have given up in trades in the last few years is Hanley Ramirez and that was for Becket. In the meantime they have fleeced the Pirates an Padres.

      • Jesse says:

        I thought you wanted Borjous?

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        Towers should give us Upton for future HOF pitcher Andrew Brackman and future power hitting 3B Brandon Laird.

        But it won’t work like that because Towers isn’t in love with Cashman like Hoyer is to Epstein. What a horrendous trade.

        • mbonzo says:

          Really not that bad, they got BA’s #31 prospect and BA’s #75 prospect along with another player who was a first round pick in 2009 for 1 year of Adrian Gonzalez. That’d be equivalent to (Pre-2011 season) Banuelos/Romine/Culver for a year of AGon. If you ask me, Red Sox paid too much.

          • bexarama says:

            Yeah, I have to agree. I don’t think they paid too much but they gave up a bunch of their top prospects for a year of AGon. Obviously he wasn’t going anywhere but they didn’t get some crazy hometown benefit when they signed him to the long-term deal, either.

          • Foghorn Leghorn says:

            you’re right…I just get pissed about it b/c I feel its a total inside job. no other team was ever reported to be involved. that deal seemed to be in the works for 3 years.

            in reality, its like a free agent deal but even worse for the Sox b/c they emptied their farm.

            I still believe that Casey Kelly won’t amount to anything beyond AA.

            • bexarama says:

              I just get pissed about it b/c I feel its a total inside job. no other team was ever reported to be involved. that deal seemed to be in the works for 3 years.

              This much is true.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            Teixeira hauled Andrus, Feliz and Harrison to the Rangers for a half year for the Braves.

            Theo got lucky.

            • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

              That Tex trade was a total steal by the rangers.

              • mbonzo says:

                BA’s #36 (Saltalamacchia)
                BA’s #65 (Andrus)
                BA’s #90 (Harrison)
                2005 1st round pick (41) (Jones)
                19 year old unranked reliever 3.04 ERA in Rk ball (Feliz)

                It worked out for the Rangers because Feliz and Andrus flourished in their farm system, but I think it says even more about their player development than the trade itself. The main piece, Salty, was a failure to the Rangers.

                Kelly is similar to Salty
                Rizzo is similar to Andrus
                Fuentes is similar to Jones

                We have left a #90 BA prospect and a young relief pitcher who has decent numbers in rookie ball. Thats the difference between 1 year of Agon and 2.5 years of Tex.

                If we’re talking about value at the time of the trade, Padres got more. Hopefully they’re as lucky with their development of their prospects as the Rangers were.

          • Brian S. says:

            Casey Kelly is garbage.

            • Foghorn Leghorn says:

              This much is true. I’m very interested to see where he will show up on the prospects lists going into next season. He wasn’t very effective in AA.

              The idea that Kelly is going to end up as a top starter is just plain silly.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        that deal was a complete joke.

      • MannyGeee says:

        Shit I don’t care if they give us anyone so long as he takes the AJ abortion off our plates! Thank you Hoyer for setting precedent!!!

  19. Jesse says:

    I still miss the Old Stadium :(

    • Darren says:

      You’re not alone. It made such a better backdrop for baseball than the new one. clean lines, the black seats, the signage that actually fit in and didn’t obliterate the view. And so on.

      BTW, you know who was TrueYankee clutch in the Reggie 3HR game?

      Mike Torrez.

      Game 6s are huge. Look at the Pettitte tipped pitch game in 2001 to see how a poorly pitched Game 6 can ruin your chances.

      • Kevin says:

        ugh..I’d like to forget the fact it’s been almost ten years since we were so close to pulling off a 4peat and one of the biggest upsets in World Series history.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        yep…Torrez gave up 2 runs in the top of the first and ended up pitching a complete game.

        I just watched highlights of the Yanks/Sox ’78 playoff. What a great game. The Sox thought they had it in the bag to BFDent came to play!

        Reggie hit a mammoth bomb in that game and it proved to be the deciding run.

        And Gossage was throwing steam on that mound. He pitched nearly 3 innings.

        • Darren says:

          Yeah, 2001 was tough. The closest Mariano ever came to being a bad teammate, when he said Brocius “froze” in that ninth. Mo was right, but still. not to mention the throw into center. and stupid Torre not moving Jeter back to guard against the bloop.

          • Kevin says:

            Bottom line..and this is the cold hard truth..despite the fact Andy FAILED to clinch the series in game six..we were three outs away. And despite Brosius having a brain freeze and failing to complete an easy double play..the fact remains Mo blew it..plain and simple.
            There was no reason to try for a double play on a bunt..as is it almost impossible to do..and Mo knew that almost better than anyone.

  20. S says:

    Its begun, Darvish is going to request to be posted

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