Cashman: We’ll talk to C.J. Wilson

Rough day for Yankees farmhands in AzFL
Mailbag: Working The Count

Via Dan Martin, the Yankees will talk to C.J. Wilson at some point this offseason according to Brian Cashman. “We haven’t talked to him yet, but we will,” said the GM. “They have won a lot and he’s been a big part of that, so we’ll certainly talk to him.”

This shouldn’t be a surprise at all. The Yankees need pitching and Wilson is the best starter on the market, so they’d better at least put in a phone call to see what’s up. There’s no harm is asking, it’s just due diligence more than anything. I took a detailed looked at Wilson earlier this week, listing both the good and the bad.

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Rough day for Yankees farmhands in AzFL
Mailbag: Working The Count
  • Billion$Bullpen

    Is he really better than Beuhrle? Most likely if you look at regular season stats from the last year I would assume it shows he is, but is there a way to look at how better hitting teams hit against him and Buehrle?

    I would rather sign Buehrle for a few reasons and the main one is I think it would be a shorter and cheaper deal but I am not sold on CJ Wilson being anything great.

    Also if we can not get rid of AJ (or dont want to, or would have to eat too much of the money on the deal) I would prefer to sign Garcia and another risk reward guy to a one year deal and go after Cole H. and/ or whoever is around next year.

    • Billion$Bullpen

      One thing I forgot is if he can be had at their price I am not against Yu, just have not seen much other than Youtube so I am not sure I am a good judge on how good he would translate here.

    • Dave203

      I’d rather have Buehrle than Yu and CJ to be honest. While CJ may have better numbers in recent years, Buehrle’s track record and consistancy holds value. He will keep you in every game he pitches.

      I don’t think he’ll be much cheaper than CJ though. He’ll take a year or two less though, but AAV may be higher or about the same. It would be hard to justify not paying him AJ type money. I’d try for 3/45 plus a vesting option on the 4th, know the salary could go up a tad if necessary to not guarantee the 4th year.

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        I don’t mind Buehrle in general, but I definitely think the Yanks should stay away from him. The price is probably going to be significantly higher than what he’s worth.

        He’s definitely had a nice career in Chicago. He’s been onsistent and like you said, has kept his team in just about every single game. I’m just not excited to add a soft-tossing lefty to the rotation at that price.

        • Dave203

          The other options are just as flawed.

          CJ has pitched 2 seasons as a starter. Yes, he’s been good over those years, but seriously, a 5 yr deal? That has a lot of risk to it.

          Yu seems to be the favorite and has a lot of upside, but can just as well turn out to be another DiceK. You can quote all the difference noted previously between the two you want, it doesn’t absolve the fact that he has never pitched in MLB let alone the AL.

          If we’re going to spend the the equivalent of 15-16 million/season, the best option out there is Buehrle. I’d rather take a B+ than take the risk of getting an F on someone else. We have our ace in CC. While it would be nice to catch Yu and find a A+, he could easily turn out to be an F.

          • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

            They don’t HAVE to sign someone though. I agree that C.J. and Yu have their own flaws, but that doesn’t mean the Yankees should go out and spend $15 million on Mark Buehrle for the simple fact that he’s safer.

            • Dave203

              The rotation is pretty weak without signing someone though. They would be putting a lot of pressure on Nova to repeat last season as their #2, Hughes would actually need to stay healthy for a change, Garcia would need a repeat of the 2011 performance, and then there’s AJ.

              If you’re going to spend 200 million/season, you need to put out better than that to start the year. I know we have people in AAA, but none of them can reliably eat 200 innings at the ML level.

              • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

                I agree. The Yanks are not likely to be as lucky with the rotation as they were in 2011. Mark Buehrle at $15 million is not the answer though. I’d rather see them roll the dice on Yu Darvish or work with what they already have instead of shelling out that kind of dough for a guy that isn’t a No. 2.

                • Dave203

                  That is exactly what you’d be doing with Darvish, rolling the dice. Of all the options out there, he is the one with the best track record of success in the AL East (unless you want to argue for us to sign Wilson). Darvish has upside, but he could also be a bust.

                  You don’t want to spending $15/season on Buehrle who is a known commodity, but will risk $100 million over 6 on Darvish who hasn’t pitched in MLB. It’s not my money, but I would be taking the known commodity with a “B” grade vs the player who may be an “A” but may just as well be an “C/D/F”.

                  • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

                    My biggest issue would be giving Buehrle $15 million. Maybe I’m just a bit harsher on Buehrle than you are, but I consider him more of a B- going forward. And I’m probably just more of a gambler when it comes to Darvish. Sure, he could bust, but he at least has a chance to eventually fulfill that No. 2 role for the Yankees.

    • steve (different one)

      Buehrle is interesting, but hasn’t he been pretty upfront about not beng comfortable in NY?

    • S

      what is so special about Beuhrle besides his 200 innings and being left handed? He’s essentially a southpaw version of Sweaty Freddy with an even slower fastball (averaged 85 mph on the year) and even almost 2 fewer K/9.

      • Dave203

        You throw around 200 innings like its nothing. Freddy hasn’t thrown 200 innings since 2006 and likely won’t ever again in his career. Sure, if you compare them both in 2011, they look similar. However, I don’t think you can count of Freddy for another 2011. Buehrle is consistent and controls the run game. He’s never been a power pitcher so I’m not sure why you’re complaining about his fastball speed. To reasonably argue they are the same pitcher is ridiculous.

        • S

          garcia’s 2011 fb is still half a mph faster than Buehrle in his youth. He’s a junkballer with a comically low K rate and a gb rate that while good at 45% is not anywhere near well enough to offset not being able to strike anyone out. I’ll be the first to admit it worked with Garcia, but you don’t go looking for those type of pitchers unless you have no options.

          If Cash is not able to post the winning fee for Darvish, go ahead and look into him but even then I still will not see the appeal for him.

          • Dave203

            Just b/c you don’t have electric stuff, does not mean you can’t be effective. Buehrle has been pitching the same way for 11 seasons now with over 200 innings every year. He has a consistent track record of success which is more than any of these other FA options can say. He’s never injured and gets the job done. There is value in that which is exactly why he will get $15 million/yr.

            Garcia is injured all the time and we got real lucky in 2011. I have no issue with resigning him, but have the same expectations as we did before 2011. He can back up the rotation or be the #5. He’s not throwing 200 innings of quality ball. If luck strikes twice and we get another 150 innings of decent ball, so be it. I don’t see that happening though.

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    Why not? Drive up the CJ price for other teams and make stealth bid for Yu.

    • Billion$Bullpen

      I do not think anything about the Yanks or any other team being interested in Yu would be a stealth move. He is one of any a few interesting high end options that might be available.

      I am also not mad at doing a pump and dump on CJ Wilson, but not really to drive the price up but to get one of their rivals to have to take them out of the game for Yu or Buehrle, and maybe to keep them out of the game next year if Hammels makes it to free agency.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com GT Yankee

      BINGO! I know the Rangers have not seemed as though it was life or death to sign him, but after losing their #1 starter in 2010 and now to lose their #1 starter in 2011 would be VERY tough. The Rangers were clear about chasing C.C. Now it’s time to pay. $$$$

  • IB6 UB9

    Wilson won’t be worth what he gets but Cashman has to make sure no team gets him cheap.

    I agree with the notion that Wilson should be avoided to leave room for a 2013 addition

  • UYF1950

    It never hurts to keep the lines of communication open and a simple phone call can’t hurt. I like the fact that there isn’t as much wear and tear on his arm as you might expect considering his age. But I’m not that thrilled about have another soon to be 31 year old locked up for 5 or worse yet 6 years. I’d rather go out on a limb with Darvish, considering from everything I’ve seen and read he seems to the real deal and not the typical pitcher coming over from Japan. We’ll see.

    I still would prefer Danks via a trade. Then hopefully he can be signed to a long term deal. But that’s just me.

  • Andy E

    ‘due diligence’ is Mike Axisa’s favorite phrase. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

    They should speak with him, and he’s worth a reasonable offer. I don’t necessarily think bringing on buys like him and Darvish, who are the cream of a thin crop, are a bad idea. I just don’t the team should pay an inflated price for them when there’s going to be better years for pitching out there AND we’re hoping the team develops at least one more solid mainstay from the current crop of prospects. Patience has always paid off for this team, while the team has paid for a lack of it in the past. It took four years, and correctly setting their eyes on Sabathia, to recover from the debacle of Wright/Pavano.

  • tbord

    I think you are incorrect on this being a mere courtesy call. If Wilson’s asking price is reasonablw, he would be in Pinstripes for sure. It’s more about the money IMHO.

  • Holy Ghost

    I think Yankee fans are more biased about free agent pitchers because of the Wright/Brown/Pavano/Burnett experiences. The only free agent pitchers who have worked out for the Yankees in recent years has been Sabathia and Mussina.

    I still like Wilson at a reasonable price(under 5 years and under 100 million)

    • Rookie

      I agree with you on all counts — especially about Wilson being a bargain at less than 5 years and less than $20 million per year. Only I don’t think the Yankees are serious on Wilson because it would take them out of the Darvish sweepstakes — if not for monetary reasons, then for political ones.

    • Billion$Bullpen

      I think Freddy and Colon are free agent pitchers that have worked out very well. They have given us more value for the buck than any fee agent pitcher in years and we hit on both. Both great signings if they did not work out, but thankfully they both did.

    • toad

      It’s only bias if it’s wrong.

      Maybe it’s just learning from experience. While there have certainly been some successes, big money free agent pitchers haven’t been a great bet in general.

  • Alfredo

    WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS GIVE UP FOR MATT CAIN OR LINCECUM?

    • Yu aint Matsuzaka

      Why all caps ?

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Anyone on the Yankee organization for Lincecum. Betances and Romine max for Cain.

      • Alfredo

        I wouldn’t do cano for lincecum.

        • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

          One for one, I wouldn’t trade Cano for anybody in baseball. Troy Tulowitzki I would have to think about, but I’d ultimately keep Robbie.

    • JMK

      I would give them many keyboards where you can’t disable the CAPS LOCK key.

    • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

      I’m in the minority here, but I wouldn’t go after either one. I’m not the biggest Matt Cain fan – not in a deal for Jesus Montero at least. Tim Lincecum is obviously a beast, but the price will understandably be pretty crazy. I’d rather see the Yankees address pitching without compromising too much of their future.

  • steve (different one)

    I believe there is genuine interest there, but the yankees are going to be connected to every single pitcher that is moving teams this winter. Keep in mind that the best organization on earth, the Red Sox, are also short on pitching. Yanks will be in on everything, at least to drive up the prices, and they will likely make one big deal this winter for a starter.

    • Rookie

      I don’t believe there’s genuine interest — again because I think it would take them out of the Darvish Derby. But I agree with what you say about the Red Sox also being short on pitching, the Yankees thus being in on everything, and Cashman being likely to pull off one big deal this winter. He’s certainly got no shortage of chips. And he can be much more aggressive with those chips if, as is highly likely, someone else wins the rights to negotiate with Darvish.

      • steve (different one)

        In general I also prefer Darvish, but technically there is no Darvish derby yet. Until he is actually posted, Wilson is the best FA available. There is a non-zero chance he doesn’t get posted, the Yanks are going to explore every avenue.

  • http://none Favrest

    Would you trade Granderson for Lincecum?

    • Rookie

      That’s a great question, Favrest. It’s actually a deal that could make sense for both teams — especially given Granderson’s favorable contract.

    • Dave203

      If that was it, probably. Lincecum and CC would be a nasty combination and we can find another OF in this market. Sure, they aren’t going to be Grandy, but Cuddyer or Beltran would bridge it enough. What we lose from Grandy to Cuddyer/Beltran we would certainly gain in Lincecum.

    • Kosmo

      Buehrle or Danks .You have to like the fact Danks is 6 years younger and a better pitcher.I might add neither pitcher has had a great deal of success pitching against the AL east.
      C.J.Wilson in the 2 years since he´s become a SP has pitched very well against the AL east.

      • Dave203

        Laughable. Danks is a better pitcher than Buehrle? Please do explain… (I can’t wait to see this…)

        • FIPster Doofus

          Danks since 2008: 3.77 ERA/3.89 FIP/4.00 xFIP, 15.6 fWAR
          Buehrle since 2008: 3.88 ERA/4.07 FIP/4.24 xFIP, 15.2 fWAR

          Neck and neck.

          • Kosmo

            2008 was Danks first full season, Buehrle´s 7th full season. Danks is 26 Buehrle 32. Danks could be coming into his prime years while Buehrle is probably heading into his down years. I´m not a big fan of either seeing that they both get knocked around facing the AL East.

          • Dave203

            It’s funny how some people do stats, way to include Danks’ great 2008 that he hasn’t been able to replicate. Additionally, from your name you appear a stats guy, you should know you can’t just average all of the season ERA’s together to get a multi-year ERA. Real stats are:

            Last 3 yrs (2009-2011)
            Buehrle — 3.91 ERA, 10.5 fWAR
            Danks — 3.92 ERA, 10.4 fWAR

            While those stats give only a slight edge to BUEHRLE, not Danks, they don’t remotely tell the whole story. The previous post insuiated they both stink against the AL east, far from it. Danks does, but not Buehrle. Over the past 3 seasons:
            Buerhle:
            Including the Yanks — 8-9, 3.99 ERA
            Excluding the Yanks — 8-6, 3.42 ERA

            Danks:
            Including the Yanks — 10-9, 5.03 ERA
            Excluding the Yanks — 9-7, 4.55 ERA

            Still yet, you are leaving out the fact that in that same 3 years, Buehrle has taken home the GG every year, has given up only 13 SB (out of 30, .433%) vs Danks 39 (out of 60, .650%), and picked of 32 compared to Danks 16.

            Spare me the comparison. I like Danks too, but he’s far from better than Buehrle and will cost prospects to obtain.

            • FIPster Doofus

              U mad? I never said Danks > Buehrle. I said it’s neck and beck between the two, and it clearly is. Cry more about the facts, though.

              • Dave203

                It was a combined response to you and Kosmo. You are your interesting way of calculating 4 year ERA and both completely ignoring major points like the ability to pitch in the AL East and fielding his position.

                Not so “neck and neck” when Buehrle has an ERA a full point lower in the AL East and takes 3 consecutive GGs.

                What you call “crying”, the rest call proving you wrong.

                • FIPster Doofus

                  You’re proving me wrong with irrelevant stats? OK, bud.

                  • Dave203

                    Why of course… How well they have pitched against the teams they will face most often is of course irrelevant when it doesn’t suit your perspective. Likewise with the ability to field the position and hold base runners — just completely irrelevant…

                    • FIPster Doofus

                      AJ Burnett had Cy Young-caliber numbers against the Red Sox, Rays, Blue Jays and Orioles before signing with the Yankees (20-5, 3.29). Care to tell me how that’s gone since he joined the Yankees?

                      Fact is, Danks and Buehrle have been neck and neck since 2008, Danks’ first full season. You can either accept that by looking at their nearly identical important stats during that span (ERA, FIP, xFIP, fWAR), or you can put your faith in nonsensical data that doesn’t really tell you anything. You seem intent on doing the latter, so have fun with that.

                      See ya.

                    • Dave203

                      LOL. So now you try and bring an AJ comparison into the conversation. There is nothing similar to the pitching styles or consistency between Buehrle and AJ. It’s simply comical you would draw the connection.

                      When comparing two players, why would not you compare how well they have pitched against similar teams. It’s an apples-to-apples comparison. It’s not prediccting the future by far. However, it’s not meaningless stats when you are using it to compare one pitcher to another. Are you going to argue that Buehrle will suddenly be terrible against AL East hitting and suck at fielding and Danks will have a sudden turnaround from his past 3 years? Laughable you are…

                      Fact is, on paper, Danks and Buehrle have similar stats only when you cherry pick which stats you want to look at. You pick and choose the stats that work for you instead of looking at the entire picture which includes their ability to pitch against AL East hitting and fielding.

                      You’re lack of insight is boring to be honest. Moving on…

                    • FIPster Doofus

                      You’re clueless.

        • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

          I think the biggest difference here is that the Yankees would have to trade for Danks and they could just sign Buehrle. I’m definitely not on the John Danks train. He’s good, but I would give up less than what most RAB readers would be willing to.

    • LiterallyFigurative

      Yes!

    • FIPster Doofus

      Yes.

    • FachoinaNYY

      In a second.

  • LiterallyFigurative

    Never hurts to make a phone call.

    I’m not fan of CJ Wilson. but if the price is decent, I’d take the chance.

    I’m still a fan of signing Yu AND trading for Danks.

    • CP

      I’d much rather have Wilson than Danks.

    • steve (different one)

      Agree with your last sentence. If that was their entire offseason, I would think they’d be odds on faves going into next season.

    • Rich in NJ

      I’m still a fan of signing Yu AND trading for Danks.

      As am I.

      I’d look at Wilson in the extremely unlikely event he’d consider a three year deal.

  • Matt DiBari

    Buehrle might fall under the old Arthur Rhodes philosophy. He does the Yankees more good facing them then he would pitching for them.

    I’m mostly kidding

  • M-Three

    Cashman is wasting his time if he talks to Wilson. The guy is a #3 starter at best and is not worth the kind of money he wants. Plus, Wilson is a type A free agent. If we signed him we would lose our 1st round pick. CC was worth losing a pick 3 years ago but Wilson is not.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Okay, lets stop pretending like this is true. Wilson has been one of the ten best pitchers in all of baseball since becoming a starter. If you want Cole Hamels next year, there’s no reason to not want Wilson this year. Wilson’s past two years were better than Hamels’ and lets not forget that Wilson was pitching in the AL and Hamels in the NL.

      • Brian S.

        Plus Wilson pitched half of his starts in the second most hitter friendly ballpark (behind Coors)

      • FIPster Doofus

        Wilson is three years older than Hamels. That’s significant.

        • Dave203

          Not to mention Wilson has only 2 years experience as a SP while Hammels has 6. Hard to predict how someone will perform over the next 5-6 years based upon only 2 years of stuff.

  • Alfredo

    The only guy I do not want the yankees to even talk to is Buehrle he just does not fit with this team. He will get crushed in the A.L. east.

    • FIPster Doofus

      Why’s that? It’s not as if Buehrle is a fly ball machine. He induces plenty of grounders and has been consistently effective since 2001, lack of strikeouts be damned. I’d take him for the right price.

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        It would all depend with Buehrle. If I remember correctly, he wouldn’t cost a draft pick which is always a plus. However, he isn’t really the No. 2 type we’re looking for. If a potential contract reflected that then maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the Yanks to bring him aboard. He’s just not a guy that they should be throwing money around for though.

    • Dave203

      I love you’re generic “he will get crushed in the A.L. east” statement without any statistics to back it up. I’m not reposting his stats vs the AL East so scroll up.

      With the stats to back it up, you remain scared that he will get crushed in the AL East. However, you are likely an advocate for Darvish who hasn’t even pitched in MLB, let alone the AL East.

  • Bronx Byte

    If I’m Cashman, I’d take C.J. Wilson to a high end restaurant in Manhattan similar to what he did with Crawford in Orlando.

    Due dilligence ……. no real offer.