Fan Confidence Poll: November 28th, 2011

Open Thread: Cody Ransom
Inside the best-pitched game of the Yankees' 2011 season

2011 Record: 97-65 (855 RS, 657 RA, 102-60 pythag. record), won AL East, lost to Tigers in ALDS

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Please take a second to answer the poll below and give us an idea of how confident you are in the team. You can view the interactive Fan Confidence Graph anytime via the nav bar above, or by clicking here. Thanks in advance for voting.

Given the team's current roster construction, farm system, management, etc., how confident are you in the Yankees' overall future?
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Open Thread: Cody Ransom
Inside the best-pitched game of the Yankees' 2011 season
  • Jack Cross

    My confidence remains at 5. I feel the Yanks are 50/50 to win the division.

    I don’t understand the rush to resign Freddy, has Cashman given up on getting a better pitcher already?

    • Rich in NJ

      Garcia provides back of the rotation pitching depth at a reasonable price, so it makes sense to get it done early, and no, they will still look to add a starter, but now they don’t have to risk being held up for one if the prices are ridiculous.

    • pat

      Nothing wrong with penciling in 150 or so innings of league average pitching early in the offseason.

    • ADam

      ???
      No rush to sign him at all, but what exactly is negative about adding starting pitching depth? There are 3 months left in the off season, who did you want them to sign? Or Trade for without seeing how the market develops.

      I’m at an 8, They do need to add another arm, but there is no rush right now to overspend money or prospects at this point

  • dean

    Love the overall direction of the organization……I think they are currently trying to find the balance with player development and how that fits into this new world where teams are locking up their young good players.

  • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

    Eight. There are some interesting options available on the market – both on the mound and in the field – and the Yanks also have several trade chips to work with.

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    Mariano Rivera may need surgery on his vocal cords.

    This is exactly how Metatron got his original gig.

  • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

    I love the Garcia signing, perfect #5.

    Interested to see what they do with Darvish, great post the other day about it as well.

    I still want to see them go after Cepedes, put him in AAA for a year (at RF? or CF?), develop him, and be able to make a decision between him and Swish.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    8, I think it will be a 10 if they go in on Darvish and Soler and make a great deal for Nunez with the Braves.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I’m geedy. I want the Yankees to sign Darvish, Soler, Cespedes and Armando Rivero.

      • pat

        Might as well go out with a bang.

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona

          Costanza would have it done by now.

  • Joseph Cecala

    If they sign Darvish, I would be pretty happy with him over Wilson/Jackson. I would like to see them add a pitcher though because right now I am not confident in the roles of Burnett, Hughes, and I am not completely sold on Nova (Sophmore Slump). Noesi provides depth and Garcia is a solid 5 but right now it looks like CC with a bunch of 4-5.

    • MattG

      I’m with you. This is a very boring off-season:

      1. Sign Darvish
      2. Improve on the margins if possible
      3. Go to tanning salon to get a base

      Note: thanks to cell phone apps, can probably do 2 & 3 simultaneously

  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

    10 since CC re-signed, and 10 I will remain. Nothing I see with this team which won’t be worked out, whether it’s before the season or, if the situation dictates, as we roll along. This team will remain a championship force for a long time to come.

  • Sean C.

    I like the Garcia signing. I don’t expect him to replicate his 2011 campaign, but I’ll gladly take a bunch of league-average innings from a SP for $4mil + incentives. Anything better than that is great. That being said, I won’t feel better about the team going forward until a better-than-average starter is added, whether that’s through trade or $$$. If the Yankees are going to spend on a pitcher, I’d like to see it be for Darvish based on upside.

  • Kosmo

    Maybe a 6. Yanks have nothing in terms of what one could consider blue chip prospects outside of Bellin and Manny above A ball and they both have to show something far better than what they did in 2011.

    Montero I don´t consider a prospect anymore. I see him as the ROY frontrunner.

    SP is still a huge ? mark. CC is the only one with a proven track record. Nova, Garcia ,Hughes and Burnett don´t exactly sustain any confidence level I might have.
    I hope AROD bounces back and Jeter still hit around .285
    IMO Granderson will never be better than he was in 2011.
    Right now I´d say without improving the SP this team as currently constructed is no better than a 88-90 win team in 2012.

    • Ted Nelson

      You state that they have replaced a poor spot in their 2011 line-up (DH) with what you yourself consider to be THE ROY front-runner… and then conclude that they will be 7-9 wins worse in 2012 than 2011… interesting.

      How many blue chip prospects do you want a team to have?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Well in fairness to him, what if Garcia and Nova have mediocre years? 4.6-7ish ERA and Hughes pitches worse than Colon did? Granderson can still be the best CF in the league and have a worse season than he did last year and CC probably won’t repeat that season either. Include that with a DH upgrade, that’s about seven wins worse or so. Right?

        • Ted Nelson

          I believe that their offense can sustain mediocre pitching and still win better than 90 games. Since 2005 they’ve averaged 95.7 wins and their starting ERA is 8th in the AL over that stretch with a 4.44 ERA (granted, the run environment hasn’t necessarily held constant over that time).

          I also don’t think looking for a bad case scenario from everyone is the way to project the most likely number of games a team will win. No more so than if I say “what happens if the whole roster has a career year… clearly they’re a 115 win team.” They could win 110 games or 88 games… but I don’t think either is the most likely scenario as of today.

          Most likely the down years will be balanced by some up years and/or reinforcements. If the SP is awful there’s Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Mitchell, Betances, and Banuelos waiting right in the wings. Mid-season trades can sure up weaknesses. Nunez, Cervelli, Chavez/Jones/replacements, Ronnie Mustelier, Corban Joseph, Romine, Brandon Laird, JoVa… they’ve got some bats that could step in and not be totally awful. They had a strong bench last season that could be as good or better next season. And, they’ve still got a whole lot of off-season left to play with.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Yeah, I agree…I can see where they’d be seven wins or so worse, it’s hard to imagine when taking everything in context. Cano, CC, Nova, and Granderson will probably all be good next year, yet worse than their 2011 selves but it’s hard to imagine all of them regressing with out a few of Jeter, Swisher, Montero (for Posada), Garnder, Rodriguez improving a lil to pick up some of the slack.

      • Cris Pengiucci

        I’m guessing (and not saying I agree or disagree with this opnion) that Kosmo doesn’t beleive that Garcia will be as effective in ’12 as he was in ’11 and that he doesn’t see a replacement for the production Colon brought in ’11, combined with a drop in production from Granderson and a possible loss of production from Nova and possibly no gain in production from Teixera, a slight drop in production from Jeter enven when combined with an increase in production (hope for) from ARod and much better production from the DH slot with Montero over Posada, equeals a team will be 7-9 games worse than last year’s team.

        Like I said, I don’t necessarily agree with that, but it’s an opinion.

        • Kosmo

          Good guess ! Just about spot on.

        • Ted Nelson

          I just don’t think that’s a reasonable most likely case, let alone to say they can be “no better than” that. I think that’s a pessimistic view which is little more helpful as a most likely case as me saying everyone will have a career year and they’ll win 110+ games.

          I do think Garcia will have worse results. I don’t think that means the Yankees won’t find help mid-season if their rotation falls apart. With mediocre (middle of the AL) starting I still think the line-up and bullpen and bench and farm make this better than a 90 win team in the most likely case. Of course it’s possible they fall flat and have a bad season, I just don’t think that’s the most likely case.

          I also take exception to Kosmo’s logic. They’re improving their line-up, but they’ll get worse. They have a bunch of good prospects… but not enough. Romine, for example, may or may not be a “blue chip” prospect depending on your definition of the term, but he has value as a guy who could step in from day 1 and be expected to contribute at a decent rate if need be. Same with guys like Cervelli, Nunez, Dickerson, Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Mustelier, Nix, CoJo, JoVa, Laird, Mitchell, Betances, and Banuelos.

          This is what Kosmo said: “Right now I´d say without improving the SP this team as currently constructed is no better than a 88-90 win team in 2012.”
          “No better than…” really? What if Granderson and Garcia are as good in 2011, Tex regains his LH swing, A-Rod is healthy, Nunez cuts down the throwing errors, Hughes regains his stuff, Burnett has a good year, Nova improves on his 2011… Looking at a bad case scenario and saying they can’t be better than that is just odd to me.
          The team was about the same last season and won 97 games… how can they not possibly be about that good in 2012?

      • Kosmo

        If you want to consider Betances and Banuelos as blue chip prospects, then 2 and barely. From A ball to the bigs is a long road to travel.
        Do you expect Nova to go 16-4 next yr ? Can Garcia be any better than he was in 2011 ? Granderson to have an MVP caliber season ? AROD and Jeter are both a year older what do you expect from them ?
        …interesting .

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          If you don’t consider Banuelos and Betances blue-chip prospects, then there’s no team in baseball with more than two blue chip prospects above Double-A.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            I’d probably agree with the then clause, but I consider Banuelos at least a blue-chipper. I’d say 30-40 blue chip prospects in all of baseball is about right.

          • Kosmo

            Visciano, Teheran and Delgado or don´t you consider them prospects ?

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              If you don’t consider Montero a prospect, them those guys certainly aren’t either.

              • Kosmo

                OK you win ! give the man a beer.

            • YanksFan

              You don’t think one of them will be the NL ROY front-runner and not deserving to be in the list, a la Jesus?

              • Kosmo

                Of course if they find a place in the SR. Jesus is at least on paper the 2012 DH backupC. It´s his to lose. They have to win a spot.

          • Ted Nelson

            This is my point. Relative to the rest of baseball, the Yankees have a strong farm. Relative to perfection? No. Relative to reasonable expectations? Yes.

            Prospects also don’t have to be above AA to help the team. Look at the Haren-to-Angels deal. Didn’t end up helping, but the Yankees got Javy for Arodys when he was a teenager in short-season.

        • Ted Nelson

          “If you want to consider Betances and Banuelos as blue chip prospects, then 2 and barely. From A ball to the bigs is a long road to travel.”

          As Mike says below, most teams aren’t brimming with top 10 prospects in the high minors… since, you know, there are only 10 prospects in the top 10.

          Low minors guys can still help the team immediately through trade. Arodys could have helped the Yankees through Javy (though that obviously didn’t happen). Tyler Skaggs was a huge part of the Haren deal for the Angels.

          And the whole “blue chip” thing seems odd to me anyway. Noesi, Romine, Phelps, Warren, Mustelier, CoJo, JoVa, Laird, Nix, Mitchell, etc. might not be “blue chip” prospects but they might make acceptable fill-ins or even have strong MLB careers.

          “Do you expect Nova to go 16-4 next yr ? Can Garcia be any better than he was in 2011 ? Granderson to have an MVP caliber season ? AROD and Jeter are both a year older what do you expect from them ?”

          You’re looking only that the guys who had career years in 2011. That’s 5 guys on the 25 man roster that you listed. Those guys may or may not repeat 2011, but their slack might be picked up by a Tex, Cano, A-Rod (who I know is one of the guys on your list, but is an easy candidate for a better season if he stays healthy), Martin, Montero, Gardner, Swisher, Nunez, Chavez/Jones/replacements, Hughes, Burnett, Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Mustelier, etc.

  • MannyGeee

    As always an 8. things are fitting to get exciting within the next two weeks, but no one around us has done anything to make me think we are in worse shape…

    I like the value singings of Garcia and Nix, and housekeeping of Swisher and CC are no-brainers.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    It looks like the rotation’s going to suck again next year, but on the bright side it looks like Cashman will avoid making stupid signings or trades that could hurt the team down the road.

    • Ted Nelson

      There’s still a lot of off-season left.

      • Ted Nelson

        Also… the rotation didn’t “suck” at all last season. They were 3rd in the AL in xFIP, 7th in FIP, and 5th in ERA.

        • Cris Pengiucci

          Agree with all of this. Plenty of time. If they can manage to be as good as last year, that’s still well above league average!

        • Jimmy McNulty

          Okay, it looks like the rotation’s going to be filled with pitchers with a lot of question marks and little upside after CC again. Is that better?

          • YanksFan

            It’s much better. Now tell me which pitching staff in the AL doesn’t suck outside of T.B. & Oakland.

            Place their rotation in context with the rest of the league.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              LA’s is pretty solid, Seattle has some pretty nice pitchers at the top end, Boston’s with Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz isn’t really all that bad on paper, Detroit with Verlander, Fister, and Scherzer, so there’s some other nice rotations out there.

              • Ted Nelson

                There are a lot of question marks for some of those teams, though. Angels I’d agree with. Seattle… doesn’t really matter because they’re also in the can’t hit camp until further notice. Boston’s is good on paper, but has a terrible health track-record on the field. Fister and Scherzer have as many question marks, to me, as most of the Yankees’ starters.

                Point, to me, is more just that there are a lot of question marks in most rotations so the Yankees are in the mix with most teams. Some teams will get a lot of positive answers to those questions during the season, some will get a lot of negative. Some teams will add top-end starters through free agency/trades.

                • YanksFan

                  A whole lot of this.

                  Bucholz is a HUGE question mark but Jimmy loved him last offseason also. He sucked for a month and was very good for a month in 2011. His 2010 peripherals do not match his stellar ERA. He’s also never pitced 200 innings ANYWHERE. 2009 & 2010 he pitched 191 & 177, and he’s now 27. Beckett was great for most of the season. Where was he in Sept? His career stats before last season do not match his perception.

                  I would like to see LA staff in the ALE and see how great they truly are.

                  The NYY have CC and interchangeable parts. They’re not great but they don’t suck either. Porcello? Let’s see Fister for more than 2 months.

          • Cris Pengiucci

            But there’s still a lot of time left for Cashman to make stupid signings and/or trades that could hurt the team down the road. :-)

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Yeah, I know that, but I remember reading some scuttlebutt how the Yankees won’t go big for Darvish. He’s pretty much the best known option at this point, right? I know you can’t read too much into the stuff that’s said about any big free agent at this point, but at least he’s giving the right impression on the guys you’d want to stay away from. CJ Wilson at the price that the best FA pitcher on the market typically gets is a non-starter for me, and Jair Jurrjens fucking sucks. Sometimes folding is the best play to make. (Not that this team ever folds, but you get what Im saying)

        • Cris Pengiucci

          In regards to their desires for Darvish, that’s what we should expect to hear. No point in tipping your hand and driving up the price.

        • Ted Nelson

          I was just saying that there’s still a lot of time to improve the SP and/or make some moves we’ll all regret.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            When Cashman categorically dismisses Jair Jurrjens and CJ Wilson has to ask to visit NY I think that’s pretty indicative that he’ll avoid the bad ones that we can see coming up.

            • Ted Nelson

              I still think it’s premature to say that. It’s also hard to say who we, as fans, will regret. At Burnett money CJ Wilson might earn his keep, while Darvish might be a big bust. Even Edwin Jackson, who a lot of people seem to think will be overpriced, is a solid start who us fans might not actually regret in hindsight.

              Cashman also doesn’t make all personnel decisions according to most reports, so we might well see Levine go out and sign some above-market deal with Fielder, Pujols, Heath Bell, Edwin Jackson… whoever. Maybe he’ll bring in Jimmy Rollins on a 5 year $100 mill deal to replace Eduardo Nunez… (only half joking)

      • Kosmo

        As the above article states “current roster construction“ not “still alot of offseason left“.

        • Cris Pengiucci

          But it also includes “farm system, management, etc.”, which changes the meaning a bit (especially the “management” part, in my opinion).

        • Ted Nelson

          Jimmy’s point wasn’t about the current roster construction. It was about whether the Yankees will or won’t sign a huge free agent deal.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            And to their credit avoiding a bad move is about the next best thing to making a good move.

            • Ted Nelson

              Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And Cashman seems to have been pretty careful to avoid the big blunders recently, with the large exception of Burnett (assuming that was Cashman’s call).

  • Plank

    I went with a 6.

    The starters are:

    One lock (CC)

    Two starters who seem league averageish (Nova and Garcia) Nova could swing either way based on age based improvement or the league figuring him out. Garcia could decline based on age.

    Two starters are good bets to suck. Hughes could show improvement next year but I doubt it at this point. Burnett is Burnett.

    The left side of the infield is just straight up old. Maybe they’ll keep it together for another year, but it’s not a great bet. Ditto Rivera.

    Everyone else, I’m happy with.

    I have no doubt they’ll improve this offseason, so the 6 is based on players currently under contract, but right now I would go with a 6.

    • Ted Nelson

      What’s your scale?

      • JobaWockeeZ

        Why are you asking him individually? Just because he voted a 6? He already explained why he feels that why. I mean shit who cares that someone doesn’t vote the team an 11 out of 10?

        • YanksFan

          His 6 may be my 9. 6 sounds negative but when compared to his scale may actually be a positive.

          • JobaWockeeZ

            True but since there’s the official poll above I’m assuming he’s asking about the scale because it’s negative and it should be dismissed.

            • Ted Nelson

              I’m asking about the scale to see what it is.

              My scale is relative to the entire league. Meaning a top 3 team is a 10; 4-6, a 9; 7-9, an 8; 10-12, a 7; 13-15, a 6… It would seem Plank is using a different scale, unless Plank feels that the Yankees are a league average team. So, I asked in a perfectly simple and respectful way what scale Plank was using to come up with a 6 out of 10.

        • Ted Nelson

          Yes, because on my scale a 6 for a team returning a 97 win squad is beyond ridiculous. So, I assume we are using different scales.

          Also because we’ve had a bunch of disagreements, and I was trying to be respectful. Obviously that didn’t work, and Plank is just a raging douchebag. So be it.

          And, no, he didn’t really explain his scale at all. He pointed out a few flaws with the roster.

          • Plank

            The only thing I did was tell you the scale of the poll. Who is the ranting douchebag?

            • Ted Nelson

              You do not seem to be in touch with reality.

              You took a swipe at me in this thread on a discussion with another commenter. You seem to take things extremely personally… it’s an anonymous blog… chill out.

              It was obvious to several other commenters that I was not asking for you to repeat the 1-10 scale for me, but asking what your scale is in terms of criteria for voting. Either you are so dumb that you didn’t understand, or you were being a douche… I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

              • Plank

                Yes, I’m out of touch with reality. That’s clearly what’s going on here.

                I was definitely wrong when I said:

                When did I ever say that? You are going to the point of lying to make my words sound absurd so you can win an argument you started.

                Are you Ted Nelson’s other handle?

                You’ve proven me wrong with this well-reasoned post.

      • Plank

        1-10

    • Jimmy McNulty

      To Jeter’s credit he did finish the year awfully strong. Great players typically age differently, and Jeter’s definitely one of the greats. It looks like he actually fixed something while on the DL. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like .300/.360/.430 from him next year.

      • Plank

        Re: Jeter, I just don’t see that kind of improvement at the age of 38. That’s really old for a baseball player.

        • Cris Pengiucci

          Yeah, but he was on fire after returning from the DL and produced better than what is being suggested (not sure on the SLG). He may be able to maintain a high level of productivity for another year or so.

          • Cris Pengiucci

            Jeter’s 2nd half slash: .327/.383/.428 In line with his career norms. Seems to support the thinking that he figured something out and may, in fact, be able to offer very good production next season.

            • YanksFan

              Could also be that he was stressing over 3K and led to a short decline. Not saying he’ll be his .315 avg. self but I could see .300.

              • Plank

                Again, it could be, but it could just as easily be an increase in BABIP from .294 to .388 in the first and second halves.

                Looking at his best stretch and assuming that will be his performance going forward doesn’t make sense to me.

                • YanksFan

                  So the bad stretch is more realistic than the good stretch?

                  He’s a career .355 BAPIP. In 2010 it was .307 and he hit .270. You don’t think he can BAPIP .333 and hit .300 like in 2008. 2008 was also similiar to 2002 & 2004 for BAPIP and avg. which are his worst seasons.

                  Yes, he’s older but he’s also a HOF who can age better than the norm. This is down for him but a still top-10 SS.

                  • Plank

                    So the bad stretch is more realistic than the good stretch?

                    When did I ever say that? You are going to the point of lying to make my words sound absurd so you can win an argument you started.

                    Are you Ted Nelson’s other handle?

                    • YanksFan

                      No, I asked a legit question.

                      You state his best strecth may not be realistic, which I agree with. But you implied that the .294 may be realistic. All this is is trying to get at his true value.

                      I originally said he can hit .300 which is nowhere near his best strech from last season. You responded with the above comment which I turned around on you.

                      I believe you & Ted both make great points on this site but each of you can sometimes take things a little too far.

                    • Plank

                      The only implication is in your head. I can’t control that.

                      I state quite clearly that smaller sample sizes have less validity.

                      If you want to look at his performance last year, look at his last year performance. Not the last part when he got half. It would be just as meaningful (that is, not very) to look only at the first half when he sucked.

                    • YanksFan

                      So my implication is in my head, but I’m lying about what you said to prove a point?

                      I am not Ted Nelson. The moderators can attest to that. Leave what is between you 2 between you 2. I asked a guestion, which you don’t seem to like. We were having a discussion, or so I thought. And I don’t beleive we are that far apart on this matter.

                    • Plank

                      You didn’t just ask a question. You asked a question with a false assumption in it.

                      You said:

                      So the bad stretch is more realistic than the good stretch?

                      That’s clearly false, and easily refutable.

                      As I said, they are equally unrealistic and his true value last year was likely somewhere in between the two figures; which, by the way, is what his final season line looks like.

                      I’m saying based on his age, 38 next year, even maintaining his last season’s production is less likely than him declining. Not impossible, but less likely.

                      Sorry if I compared you with Ted Nelson, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          I’m not saying “pencil him in for that,” I’m merely saying that I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he continued to stick it to father time.

          • Plank

            I wouldn’t be too surprised if one of Jeter or Arod performed at their career norms either. I would be surprised if both Jeter and Arod performed at their career average though. Even that is possible, but seems unlikely, which is what I said in my original post.

  • LarryM.,Fl.

    Even with the signing of Garcia I remain at 8+. His signing adds backend of the rotation depth not necessarily improved playoff position. We could have stayed with Noesi in the 5 spot and my 8+ remains. Until the Yankees sign or improve upon the pitcher who fills in after CC. Then I believe we remain a very good team with potential for the playoffs. The no. 2 pitcher and bench personnel are imperative.

  • JonS

    I’m at a 7 right now and it can change quick by some things going right here

    1. if we signed Darvish I’m at an 8 right there
    2. Great signing of Garcia but i rather use him if necessary and not because he’s our 5th starter so maybe a buehrle
    3. Arod needs to come into spring training healthy (even though he did last year and it didn’t go to well)
    4. Hughes comes into spring training in shape because he was fat this season and thats unacceptable
    5. Jesus stays with the team
    6. bring one of the two cuban outfielders in because I’m just not sold on the outfield depth since most of the talent is in low A and plus they r not power guys or 5 tool guys, they are mainly speed guys.
    7. Finally when ever we get (which we will some day) a guy like King feilx, or a timmy lin or who eve then we would be at a 10

  • YanksFan

    My usual 9.

    While I would love an upgrade in the rotation, i don’t believe it matters much. I do believe Hughes will bounce back and be a solid #3. As I mentioned above, who’s rotation scares you? T.B. and Oakland are the 2 best IMO and neither team can hit. So the NYY rotation is representative to go w/ a Top 3 BP & Offense.

    Add the fact of the 2nd WC and the NYY should breeze into the playoffs and once there, it is a crap-shoot. Texas and St. L didn’t light the world on fire pitching wise in the playoffs but were in the WS. One hit in any of 3 games and the NYY would have been playing Texas.

    • thenamestsam

      This is my basic feeling. With the exact roster they currently have I feel that if the season started tomorrow they would be among the favorites to win the world series. They will certainly have a great chance to make the playoffs and with the rotation they currently have they would have a better chance of winning it than STL did this year. Add one more starter who is better than anyone they have but CC and they’re immediately at the front of the pack of favorites. Combine with an above-average farm system and I’m at about an 8.5 right now. Add the #2 starter at a fair price and I go to 9.5. Fail and I go to 7.5.

    • Ted Nelson

      Good points.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      The Yankees should be looking to improve every year which is what they do. They don’t look at other teams and say “oh their rotation doesn’t scare me so I won’t do anything.”

      I’m so glad Cashman is running this team. Never does he say wow we’re good enough I won’t actively look for ways to improve.

      • JobaWockeeZ

        And it’s cool that you think Hughes is a number three, but why? Can you explain why we shouldn’t be worried about him? See it’s your opinion which I respect but I find it hilarious how you get away with it where someone above says I don’t believe in Jeter keeping his numebrs up or if the rotation isn’t good enough and this place goes apeshit.

        Why sin’t anyone screaming for tangible evidence? Or what absis they ahve for the statement? Or some other annoying question asked when soemone isn’t overly positive?

        • JobaWockeeZ

          And excuse these damn typos.

        • Ted Nelson

          I think it’s a matter of tone.

          Jimmy and YanksFan merely stated their opinions on what they wouldn’t be surprised by and believe, respectively. Hard to disagree with what someone wouldn’t be surprised by or believes. Easy to disagree when someone just throws out a players’ age to discredit what someone wouldn’t be surprised by.

          • YanksFan

            Agree. However, the written word does not always reflect intent & can lead to problems.

        • YanksFan

          It’s a belief. He’s 25 and should be getting into his prime. I believe a part of his problems last year were a result of the huge innings increaase from 2009 to 2010.

          For all the bithcing about his 2010 second half, I think it wasn’t as bad. How many times during the recaps was it said that Phil tired in the 5th or 6th and gave us 3 runs to end w/ an ERA of 4.5 instead of 0 or 1. I felt the next step would be to pitch a little more efficiently and finish the team off.

          Last years 2nd half was also much improved. He had 11 starts, 7 of which were Quality. He got bombed in 2 Oakland games, once in Boston and his first game back he pitched 5 giving up 2. He wasn’t great but he kept the team in the game & gave up minimal runs. To me, that is encouraging.

      • YanksFan

        Cash should be looking to improve every year, totally agree. I also mentioned that I would love an upgrade. But barring an upgrade this rotation is good enoough to get to the playoffs & take their chances. Now it comes down to what potential uprage you’re getting relative to cost.

        Is CJ at 18M/yr. going to win you 15 more games than Hughes at 4M/yr. Is EJ at 12M/yr. worth the upgrade?

        Cash looks at the whole pitcher and he has to look at the opposition also. Where am I in relation to them? Where can I improve? Is the cost worth it to improve by 2 games?

    • Bob Stone

      I am my usual 9 as well and agree with your reasons.

  • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

    One thing that I’ll say regarding starting pitching is that the Yanks’ rotation needs to be built to win the division. I doubt that goal is different from previous years, but it should just be stressed. I don’t want the Yanks to have to win a one-game playoff just to make it to the ALDS.

    Part of me wants to see the Yanks create a starting pitching logjam through a trade and/or free agent signing or two and then sort it out in Spring Training.

    • Plank

      I’d take quality over quantity. If the Yankees have a lot of decisions to make in Spring training, they are probably in a bad spot.

      • Ted Nelson

        With several MLB ready-ish SP prospects they already likely will have decisions to make.

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        I hear you there and I agree that quality is almost always superior to quantity. I’m not talking about bringing in a bunch of scrubs and choosing the one or two that produce the least shit though. I’m talking about some combination of Darvish/Wilson/Buehrle/EJax/trade acquisition. In that hypothetical scenario they may only need to compete for one more spot, but at least you’d have a real competition for it instead of someone backing into the rotation.

      • YanksFan

        I’m not so sure. See Boston last year. They are minimal depth and it ended up costing them in Sept. Hell, they were looking to trade for Bruce Chen on the last day of the season.

        You should have at least 7 pithchers, if not 8 or 9. They don’t have to be great, just serviceable.

        I would love to have a 1, a 2, 3 number 3’s and a bunch of 5 options.

        • Plank

          They already have a lot of quantity.

    • Ted Nelson

      I agree with the point that it needs to be built to win the division, but would point out that it needs to be built for 2012 and beyond. They’ve already got a log-jam in the starting rotation. Noesi spent 2011 in the bullpen, while Phelps and Warren are pretty much MLB ready in AAA. I’m not trying to prospect hug or say that these guys will all work out… just that they have to allow for these guys to earn spots. At some point trading high-upside young prospects, for example, to further block these MLB-ready prospects can be counter-productive. Or trading the better ones right before they’ve had a chance to break-out (say they had traded Nova before last season for Liriano or someone… could have really regretted that last season).

      Again, I’m not saying to hug the prospects or not to acquire a veteran starter if the right value emerges… just that they should be looking at a comprehensive picture which might involve leaving some breathing room for their prospects if the right value acquisition doesn’t emerge.

      This is a big part of why I like the Garcia re-signing. It’s a good value in an of itself. It also puts a fungible placeholder into the rotation… if Garcia falters and/or a prospect dazzles, Garcia isn’t necessarily locked into his spot. Worst case, Garcia falters and no prospect steps up, they can explore the mid-season trade market. Best case, Garcia repeats 2012 and a prospect dazzles, you have a good problem (and between two or three of Burnett and/or Hughes and/or Nova you probably have at least one rotation spot for a stud prospect anyway). Even if Garcia sticks out the year in the rotation (for better or worse), he’s gone in 2013 and the rotation spot is available for Banuelos, Betances, Noesi, Phelps, Warren, or an acquisition (and there might be quite a bit of free agent talent next off-season).

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        True, flexibility is important moving forward. There is already a logjam developing between Triple-A and the bigs with all of the prospects. This is the main reason why I think we’ll see some sort of blockbuster this offseason. It’s not like the Yanks will be able to fit each of those guys into their plans anyway.

        There are just so many directions the Yankees could move in right now. I’m looking forward to seeing what Cash and Co. have up their sleeves.

        • Ted Nelson

          Yeah, I think that a move is possible. I also think patience is possible, though.

          • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

            As 2011 showed us, sometimes patience is the best move.

        • YanksFan

          Agreed. Not saying you can trade for a stud but trade 2 of them for a number 2(not straight up, but part of a package). Or trade 2 of them for a potential lottery ticket. Opp & Eppler have done a great job of finding guys capable of helping this team.

  • Hornets686

    I’d trade Montero, Nova, Betances, and Noesi for Felix Hernadez

    Re-sign Swisher at a cheaper price…Make him the DH

    Make a 3-Way Trade…
    Mets get: A.J. Burnett
    Dodgers get: Jason Bay and Prospects from Yankees
    Yankees get: Ted Lilly and Andre Ethier

    C.C.
    King Felix
    Lilly
    Garcia
    Hughes

    LF – Gardner
    SS – Jeter
    3B – Grandy
    1B – Tex
    2B – Cano
    3B – A-Rod
    DH – Swisher
    C – Martin
    RF – Ethier