Open Thread: Army-Rutgers

Granderson, Cano take home Silver Slugger Awards
Phelps has best start of winter in AzFL

In case you haven’t heard, Yankee Stadium will be hosting its third college football game since opening next weekend, when Army takes on Rutgers next Saturday (the 12th). Thanks to our friends at TiqIQ, we can help get you into the game at a 30% discount. Just click the image above or this link. I’m sure we’ve got some Scarlet Knights out there in our readership, so get out there and support your team while giving the Yankees some more of your hard-earned cash. Seriously though, I heard the previous two football games were absolutely amazing.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The 2011 Taiwan All-Star Series will resume tomorrow, so you’re baseball-less tonight. The Devils are the only local hockey team in action, but I’m sure you can find another way to spend the evening. You all know how this works, so have at it.

Discussion Question: Keeping it semi-realistic, what is your dream rotation for 2012?

Granderson, Cano take home Silver Slugger Awards
Phelps has best start of winter in AzFL
  • Tom Zig

    Not in any particular order after CC:

    CC
    Nova
    Garcia
    Darvish
    Burnett

    I’ve come around on Darvish these past few weeks. The reports on him have been really good. I really hope we can get him.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    Dream Pitching Staff of 2012?

    CC Sabathia
    Yu Darvish
    John Danks
    Ivan Nova
    AJ Burnett

    Have Hughes start the year in Scranton and Nova in the Bullpen. I guess I’d also like to see AJ traded, if that’s the case Hughes is the 5th starter.

    • Dave203

      How is Nova starting in the pen and as the #4 at the same time?

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Ahhhh…FREDDY in the pen, that’s what I meant to say, dunno how I did that.

        • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

          What good would he do in the pen? a long man? he’s not a strikeout guy, and he won’t go to the pen after the year that he had.

    • steve (different one)

      This would be awesome, I agree. Would settle for one of Danks/Darvish though.

  • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

    CC Sabathia
    Ivan Nova
    Yu Darvish
    Freddy Garcia
    Phil Hughes/Hector Noesi (ST competition)

    As we say with the Lowe trade, even the worst pitchers can be moved. The Yankees just have to eat AJ’s contract (which they can do)

  • RaeGun

    CC
    Cain
    Hughes (more of the early 2010 version and less of the 2011 version)
    Darvish
    Nova

    I guess that is still semi-realistic, right?

    • Dave203

      Definitely realistic — will take some work to trade for Cain, but think it could happen. Only issue is the cost of both Cain (since we’d have to get him an extension at fair market value) and Darvish. I wouldn’t want to be priced out of going after Kemp next year.

    • http://yankeeanalysts.com Matt Imbrogno

      Not really, no.

      • RaeGun

        Yeah.. I guessed so, switch Cain out for AJ?

        CC
        Hughes
        Nova
        AJ
        Darvish.

        Definitely think we could get Darvish this off season, and I think their is a legit chance that Hughes becomes more like his 2010 self, and thus, a spot in the rotation.

        • http://yankeeanalysts.com Matt Imbrogno

          Yeah, that’s much more likely in re: Cain/Burnett. Not so sure about Hughes anymore.

    • RaeGun

      …and I just realized it now. Rotation for 2012. Somehow, I was thinking about the possible rotation we could get during the 2012 off season. Eek.

  • Dave203

    CC
    Buerhle
    Nova
    Hughes
    Garcia and company

    While I’d love to see what Darvish can do, $100 million is a lot. If they can afford Buehrle and Darvish, game on. If not, I favor the known commodity that can essentially guarantee me 200 innings.

    I don’t care what we get for AJ as long as he isn’t pitching. Get a pole dancer for the club house for all I care — just make it happen.

  • Dan

    CC
    Nova
    Darvish
    Hughes
    Burnett

    AND NOT CJ WILSON!!!

  • D-Rob’s Great Escape

    Dream rotation of 2012, same as one of the above posters.

    CC Sabathia
    Yu Darvish
    John Danks
    Ivan Nova
    AJ Burnett

    I would rather have Hughes as the 5th then AJ but you said be realistic. I could take out Danks but I kinda think a deal with the CWS for him makes sense, and with Danks being on a one year deal plus AJ would going into his walk year after this season it would give you the option of either resiging Danks or pursuing Cain or Hamels if they become FA.

    • Sarah

      Plus one for this rotation.

    • RaeGun

      I could see this happening. Hughes takes on Bartolo’s spot, start the season from the bullpen and move into the rotation when the injury comes.

  • Rainbow Connection

    Remember when everyone’s list (a year ago) was:
    CC
    Lee
    Hughes
    AJ
    Nova

    LOL

    • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

      Yeah, and what was yours at the time?

      • Rainbow Connection

        CC
        Wakefield
        King Felix
        Oliver Perez
        Brackman

        • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

          Yep. That’s not LOL worthy at all..

          • Rainbow Connection

            Wow. Just wow.

            Wow.

            • Steve Jobs

              I have a copyright on those final words. Back off, buddy boy.

  • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

    CC Sabathia
    John Danks
    Ivan Nova
    Phil Hughes
    Freddy Garcia

  • Charles Hirsch

    CC
    Cain
    Nova
    Hughes
    Aj

  • Nightwing

    CC Sabathia
    Ivan Nova
    Yu Darvish
    Wei-Ying Chen
    Freddy Garcia

    Burnett gets traded imo. Hughes to the bullpen or DL. I wouldn’t mind Hughes as the #5 either, but he has to get back to form and prove himself. I think Wei-Ying Chen is an interesting possibility since he is young, doesn’t have a massive amount of innings on his arm, and he doesn’t require as posting fee. It will be interesting to see what the Yankees do this offseason regardless. However, I really hope they don’t sign Wilson. I don’t think he can handle New York. No way Buerhle signs here either. St. Louis or Chicago for him.

    • Rainbow Connection

      Some beat writer or analyst called into WFAN last night and said that Hughes pretty much just showed up to ST out of shape and it all fell apart from there.

      • Nightwing

        Well, like I said, I wouldn’t mind Hughes for the #5 spot. If he was indeed just out of shape, then he should get in shape and win the #5 spot in ST. No way I would just hand it to him. He has to earn it imo.

        • Rainbow Connection

          I don’t disagree with you. I want him to get in shape and kick ass. It would be awesome to have Phil and Nova destroying in 2012.

          I was just providing some quasi-evidence (?) against the ‘poor, poor Phil had dead-arm and there’s nothing he could have done to stop it’ theory, which is popular in these parts.

          • Nightwing

            I feel ya, bro. If I came off as offensive with my comment, I apologize. I’d love to have Hughes and Nova in the rotation with Garcia in the bullpen. I just hope Hughes can get in shape and win that spot.

          • steve (different one)

            He was pretty fat in ST, but I have no idea if that would have anything to do with dead arm or not.

      • SteveJ

        I didn’t hear the reporter/analyst, but I did hear Francesca’s interview with Brian Cashman earlier in the day. Cash never came out and directly said Hughes’ problems was conditioning, but he did say Hughes showed up a little overweight and went into Yankee “fat camp,” and that this offseason Hughes would be working out at the highly regarded Athletic Performance Institute in Arizona to maximize his strength and conditioning.

        So add it up: Came to camp overweight, lost velocity on his fastball that partially returned after the Yankees put him on a new training program, and this offseason they’re sending him to API.

        Hughes just wasn’t in shape in 2011. I don’t know why some people are having a hard time accepting this. He wouldn’t be the first young pitcher to learn the hard way that competing over the course of a full season on the MLB level takes a new level of conditioning and that simple youth and skills aren’t enough. Add in his heavy workload in 2010, and the two intersected to probably cause Hughes’ rough year.

        I no longer envision Hughes as a front-end starter, but I have hopes that in 2012 he can be a mid-rotation starter for the Yankees.

  • Ramondo

    CC
    Nova
    Darvish
    Hughes
    Burnett

  • RaeGun

    Not exactly my dream rotation, but I could also see this happening:

    CC
    Nova
    Hughes
    Darvish
    Jackson

    I think AJ could be traded somehow, we win the posting for Darvish, Hughes win the 5th spot out of ST, and we sign Jackson to a 4 year deal.

  • vin

    Mike Mussina
    Andy Pettitte
    Darrel Rasner
    Sidney Ponson
    Dan Giese

    Whoa… guess it was more of a nightmare than a dream. Good thing that would never happen.

    • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

      /2008’d

      • Rainbow Connection

        Nice catch. No one else would have figured that out.

        • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

          Yeah especially the guy who had King Felix, Wakefield, Perez, and Brackman in the rotation at the start of 2011…

          • http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

            You thought he was serious?

  • Tipsie

    best-case realistic rotation

    CC
    Darvish
    Danks (via trade)
    Hughes (expect better)
    Nova (expect worse)

    • http://TheOne JCYanks

      What makes you think Hughes is going to pitch better and Nova worse? I think Nova is definitely going to just keep getting better. Hughes on the hand is a hard call. I think our best choice is put him in the pen, try to get him back to that level of where he was pitching so well in the pen then trade him midway next year for a key piece. maybe Kemp is out there at that time?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Nova can definitely pitch worse next year. Anytime you allow that many balls in play and rely on your defense, you have a chance to run into some bad luck. Plus he finished this season hurt.

        • mustang

          “Plus he finished this season hurt.”

          His last game !!!!

          LMAO.

          Wow!!! just too funny

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that made it any better. Would it have mattered more if they made the ALCS and he couldn’t start?

            • mustang

              I’m sorry you knew for a fact that he wasn’t going to start in the ALCS?

              Please there been no reports that the injury is going to be issue so I don’t see the need to make an issue.

              Stop hating on the guy.

              • mustang

                Not everyone has to fit the “mode” to pitch well.

  • http://twitter.com/Carlosologist_7 Carlosologist

    I’m vying for a rotation of:

    CC
    Darvish
    Nova
    Burnett
    Hughes/Noesi

    Seems like the most reasonable one to me.

  • vin

    My “realistic dream” rotation for 2012:
    CC
    Darvish
    Nova
    Hughes
    Burnett

    6 Noesi
    7 Warren
    8 Phelps
    9 Banuelos
    10 Betances
    11 Mitchell

    for 2013:
    CC
    Hamels/Cain/Danks/Floyd/Healthy Liriano
    Darvish
    Nova/Hughes
    Banuelos

    6 Burnett
    7 Warren
    6 Noesi
    7 Warren
    8 Phelps
    9 Quintana
    10 Marshall

    traded for someone useful: Hughes/Nova
    moved to the pen: Noesi, Betances

    Not saying I want to see these guys traded or moved to the pen, but something’s gotta give in this scenario.

    Obviously Darvish is the wild card in all this. I really can’t see them spending big money (fully against the luxury tax) on CJ Wilson with all the available talent potentially available in 2013. If he’s posted, it is probably best to go after Darvish, since none of the other guys are guarantees to even make it to FA. And if a guy like Cain, Hamels, Danks, Floyd, Liriano is available, then the Yanks have to seriously consider adding a talent like that.

  • Dan

    CC
    Darvish
    Nova
    Burnett
    Hughes

    6- Noeisi starting in AAA til the big club needs a starter

  • THU

    CC
    Danks
    Darvish
    Nova
    Hughes

    Yu won by posting fee
    Danks traded for, Romine, Heathcott, Phelps and a lower tier prospect
    Burnett dumped off a la Lowe.

  • billysbartender

    CC
    Darvish
    Floyd
    Nova
    Hughes

  • mustang

    CC
    Danks
    Hughes
    Nova
    Darvish/ Garcia as back up

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      First one I’ve seen that looks realistic to me. I can see them unloading Burnett, though you won’t get anything back (as we just saw with Lowe). Danks is get-able, and shouldn’t cost too much. Williams is talking about rebuilding, so getting MLB ready talent in return is fine for him. This is his last year of arb, so you’re really only buying 1 year of Danks’ services.

      I’m amazed at all the Darvish stuff. I look at him as a AAA pitcher, many of whom have all sorts of trouble adjusting to MLB without all the cultural and baseball differences he’ll have to contend with. I know he’s better than Dice-K or Igawa, but I still think spending 100 mil on a AAA pitcher is utterly foolish, especially with all the added baggage that comes with importing. I know it’s just money, but the Yanks do have a budget, albeit a high one.

      I’d like to make a run at Gio Gonzalez before settling on Danks, but your list looks very solid to me.

  • Grit for Brains

    A lot of love around here for Danks…I like him too, but I don’t see the Yanks starting the season with him, I think KW wants a lot…but if it comes down to it at the deadline who knows…

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      Danks is a bridge to the 2012 FA list that shouldn’t cost too much in terms of prospects. It’s a solid move that should be an upgrade over Hughes or Burnett. I have a feeling Hughes will be retained, be given a shot at the rotation in ST and transitioned to the bullpen after he loses the “competition” with someone like Garcia.

      • Grit for Brains

        I like Danks a good bit…I just have a feeling they aren’t trading him for anything you’d want to give up…If I’m Cash, I’m not giving Montero or Betances for a year of Danks and I bet they’d ask for 1 of the 2….Maybe mid season the price tag would be a lot more realistic.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          See, that’s the thing. I assume it won’t take an A-level prospect for Danks, rather a collection of B-level guys. That’s why I like him as a stopgap.

  • CP

    CC
    Darvish
    Wilson
    Nova
    AJ (I would prefer Hughes, but I don’t think there’s any way AJ is not in the rotation)

  • mbonzo

    CC (3.10 ERA)
    Danks (3.70 ERA)
    Darvish (4.10 ERA)
    AJ (3.80 ERA)
    Hughes (4.10 ERA)

    Nova traded for Danks, Darvish won in posting, AJ is gonna have a big year (I’m calling it now), and Hughes for the comeback/breakout player of the year.

    This is my dream lineup because it’ll be a make or break year for Hughes, it’ll give Danks a look before he hits free agency, and AJ will be winding down his contract very soon. It’ll be a very strong rotation that will be very maneuverable for the mega free agent pitchers in 2013.

    Oh and lets do what it’ll look like the next year.

    CC (3.30 ERA)
    Darvish (3.10 ERA)
    Hamels (3.50 ERA)
    Danks (3.50 ERA)
    Hughes (3.70 ERA)

    Darvish enters the season as the #3 but quickly becomes the 3rd ace when he figures out his control issues. Hamels dominates in the AL East, but not as good as he was in the NL. Danks figures out hitters in the AL East a little better.

  • MannyGeee

    CC
    Yu
    Nova
    AJ
    HUghes

    realistically, a trade for any upgrade from that rotation is gonna cost you stuff you do not want to give away….

  • mike_h

    CC
    Danks (straight up for Betances)
    Nova
    Garcia
    AJ

    bullpen:
    Mo
    Soriano
    Robertson
    Joba
    Hughes (longman)
    Wade
    Logan

    Noesi, Brackman, Warren, Mitchell, Banuelos all in AAA

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      Brackman? There’s very little chance he comes back after being cut.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

    CC
    Darvish
    Nova
    Trade for Haren(12.75M 15.5M club option 2013)
    AJ

    Hughes to whatever inning girardi likes

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      I’m pretty sure the reason why we didn’t get Haren a few years ago was he wanted to pitch on the west coast. I love him as a pitcher, but I don’t think he wants to come here.

      • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

        Does he have a no trade clause? The angels gave a good package for him. Its not like he went there as a FA.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          Cot’s doesn’t have anything, but I thought he had a limited no-trade. But I could be wrong about that.

          BTW-The D-Backs got Saunders back, who will probably be non-tendered this year. That really wasn’t a good return, it was a pure salary dump. The team was very bad and rebuilding at the time, it could have been an accommodation where he quietly asked to be traded.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            The D’Backs got two great prospects in Corbin and Skaggs in that trade.

            • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

              “Great” is a stretch. The highest either was ever ranked by BA was Skaggs at #82 this year. Neither has made the bigs yet (both are still very young) so I think it’s more fair to say the jury is still out on both.

  • http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

    Do I see the birth of “Your Rotation Proposal Sucks”?

  • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

    CC Sabathia
    Gio Gonzalez
    Ivan Nova
    John Danks
    Freddy Garcia

    Hughes to the pen, unless he went in a deal.

    3 lefties, baby.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I just don’t get the Gio love. His walk rate has gone down every year since 2008 and it was still the worst in baseball in 2011.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        I’m thinking he’s more comfortable and aggressive in the strike zone pitching in YS3, plus will have a solid right side infield defense behind him (Lefty) for maybe the first time in his professional life. His FB/GB rates are solid, I see no reason why he shouldn’t be successful with a good offensive and defensive team behind him. I chalk up the walks to nibbling, feeling like he can’t give up any runs in Oakland. The stuff is certainly there.

        • mbonzo

          Don’t forget the Rothschild effect.

          • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

            It’s not like he’s overly wild. The times I’ve seen him pitch he was always around the zone. I haven’t seen any detailed analysis or heat maps but he passed the eye test for me.

    • Dave203

      I guess the bigger question I have is how we are trading for Gio and Danks? Are we dumping the farm? A’s are going to ask for a crapload for Gio and Danks will take at least Betances to get it done, I would think. I like the rotation, but don’t see it happening unless we dump the farm.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        I don’t think Danks will be all that expensive. Noesi or Warren plus a lesser Catcher (Romine/Cervelli)? Just thinking out loud, but I can’t see 1 year of Danks costing the moon.

        I know I’m in the minority, but I’d do Montero straight up for Gio. Not sure that Cash will, though.

  • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

    If Mike Axisa is around, I’d love to hear him weigh in on the chances of Brackman returning. Plurality over at TYA had it as pretty slim, myself included.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I dunno, I guess there’s a shot. I thought Humberto Sanchez was a goner, but two days later he re-signed to a minor league deal.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        From the Yanks perspective, yes. But as a FA (and Boras client) won’t he be looking for a fresh start? And won’t some team think they can fix him and view him as a low-cost/high reward signing? He’s not going to be that for the Yanks, here he’s a first round bust. I just can’t see him choosing to come back.

        • SteveJ

          I don’t think the Yankees cut Brackman for money (the major money has been spent and the additional investment only ranged from 500K to 1 million). I think they cut him because he was locking up a 40-man spot that they’re going to need in the coming months, and his current contract meant he had to be on the MLB 25-man roster in 2013. By cutting him, the Yankees can work out a new deal without the restrictions above, and with money actually being secondary.

          Who knows, they might even pay him MORE money just to rid themselves of those committments for 2012 and 2013.

    • mbonzo

      My name isn’t Mike Axisa, but its close enough.

      I have an issue with this whole Brackman deal. His lowest value was at the trade deadline this year, and I still think he could have easily drawn a type-B relief pitcher. The Yankees obviously didn’t trade him, and from that point he posted a 1.33 ERA.

      So if you knew Brackman had an option that’d you’d have to decide on, and you weren’t happy with his 2011 season, wouldn’t you trade him? He did nothing but improve his trade value after that by posting over 20 innings of incredible pitching.

      So if the Yankees don’t plan on resigning him, what the hell were they thinking by not trading him at the trade deadline for at least a relief pitcher to get them a draft pick?

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        Maybe theoretically he should have drawn a B-reliever, but nobody offered one up. Just a thought.

        • mbonzo

          Even if they weren’t offered a type B relief pitcher, they should have at least gotten something. If they were unsure about picking up the option, what more did Brackman have to do to make them sure? I get the feeling they’re at least planning to make an offer.

      • JohnnyC

        His contract goes with him. Would another team want to pay him potentially a million dollars if he makes the major league roster? I don’t think so.

  • Colin

    late to the party, but want to put my 2 cents it. dream rotation means the yankees find a taker for burnett

    cc
    danks
    nova

    and then 2 of darvish, hughes, colon, garcia depending on who starts well/gets hurt.

    i really like what colon did early last year, and think he can build on last year’s innings and not tire out at the end of the season. plus, after the red sox pitching fall apart, you can never have too much pitching

  • Thomas Cassidy

    I see a lot of dream rotations. Here’s mine:

    CC
    Halladay
    Verlander
    Kershaw
    Lincecum

    I can dream, right?

    I don’t see the Yankees trading for Danks, I don’t get why everyone gets hot in the pants for him, he’s not a great pitcher by any means.

    Sabathia
    Nova
    Darvish/Jackson/Garcia
    Burnett
    Hughes

    That’s probably as realistic as you can get at this point.

    • Midland TX

      1) Sign Wilson Betemit
      2) Flip Betemit and Jeff Marquez to Kenny Williams again–this time for Danks.

      Easy. Get it done Cash.

  • Thomas Cassidy

    On another note, did anyone check out the trailer for Grand Theft Auto V?

    It looks bad ass.

  • Chuck

    Hughes isn’t worth anything right now. I’d trade betances for something.. One of Nunez/laird and romine. If that can land Danks so be it. Keep montero. When the team doesn’t win watching homegrown talent like cano held my interest.

    Cc
    Nova
    Danks
    Burnett
    Banuelos/oswalt(scrap bargain)/wait til deadline

    I watched yu darvishes last game. Brother lives in japan. I don’t think it’s worth the money not with 2013 free agent class

  • Goosemania

    Sabathia-Ace
    Buerhle-Second lefty vet (like andy pettite)
    Nova-Young righty trying to put up similar numbers from last year (sophomore curse?)
    Darvish-Take a chance on a young and talented righty
    Burnett-In my opinion not awful as a number five.

    This would be an interesting rotation full of veterans, up and comers and talent.