Buster Olney ranks the ten best everything
ByNothing will start a debate quite like a national baseball writer ranking the best anything, and Buster Olney went nuclear on the baseball faniverse by publishing a series of top ten lists this week. The Yankees didn’t place among the ten best rotations, which shouldn’t be all that surprising, but they ranked second in bullpen (behind the Braves), third in infield (Rangers, Reds), second in outfield (D’Backs), and third in lineup (Red Sox, Rangers).
All the links are Insider-only unfortunately, but the Yankees relevant stuff is here. I generally agree with Buster’s rankings, though I’d have the Yanks ahead of the Reds on the infield (who’s their shortstop? what was Scott Rolen’s OBP last year?). That’s just a minor quibble though, I don’t think there are any egregious mistakes where the Yankees were multiple spots off the mark. The Rays didn’t appear in the outfield list though, not sure how that happened.
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The Mason Williams Watch
Rangers’ lineup is full of health risk
I think the Yankees outfield is better than Arizona’s too.
i think so
Did Olney count the age of the outfields? The average age of AZ’s OF is under 25. That’s insane. I would trade ours for theirs right now.
If it’s based on their performance last year, I would go with the Yankees, if it’s based on their performance going forward, I would go with the Dbacks.
All I know is that if you had to put an NBA team together out of Yankees fans, you could start with Lebron James and Kobe Bryant. Pretty impressive.
The Yankee starters may not make the top ten in Olney’s view just because we only have one big name on the staff. However, they were pretty good taking into account they pitch in the most powerful division in baseball. I agree that our outfield is better than Arizona’s, and we finished second to Boston in runs scored. Taking all of these factors into account, we have the best team in baseball as it is now.
I think he ranked our pitching staff not in the top ten because it’s not one of the 10 best.
I think the Yankees feel their starting pitching and depth is better than MSM and many Yankee fans feel about it.
Is this about pitching depth or starting rotation? How many pitchers do you expect to be league average or better? 3? It could just as easily be 1 or 2. How much of that pitching depth is prepared to be league average?
Reasonable people can disagree on which rotation will be better this season.
crawdaddie said starting pitching and depth… which I take to mean starting rotation depth. That’s very important. If some teams lose a SP or two, their season could be ruined. The Yankees have the depth to have a good chance to make up for an injury or implosion.
Obviously no one knows exactly how Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Betances, Banuelos will fair in MLB, let along how Hughes will look, whether Nova can repeat or best 2011, how Garcia’s stuff will play this season, and whether AJ can overcome his meatball HR problem. That doesn’t mean that all of those question marks will be answered negatively. The Yankees could wind up with 4 or 5 above average starters and a couple of studs pushing for spots from AAA just like they could wind up pinning their hopes entirely to CC.
Thanks for explaining how disagreements work.
I was asking about how Olney ranked them. I wasn’t making a point. I’m not debating this on crawdaddies specifications. If Olney used the same guidelines, then fine. Did he?
Is that fare?
I responded directly to your comment. Instead of getting into semantics, why not discuss the issues? The guidelines are who has the best rotation. crawdaddie and Olney are both using those guidelines.
These are the same answers I gave above, but I’ll break them down for you…
“Is this about pitching depth or starting rotation?”
The interrelation between the two makes them effectively one and the same.
“How many pitchers do you expect to be league average or better?”
Different people will have different projections… the original point crawdaddie made. There is no one right answer.
“It could just as easily be 1 or 2.”
Same can be said for every team outside the top 4 or so on that list.
“How much of that pitching depth is prepared to be league average?”
Again… there is no right answer. crawdaddie’s point was that it appears the Yankees are more bullish here than Olney and the MSM.
If the Yankees think their AAA arms are ready to be league average in the majors, which seems to be your assertion, they would either start them or trade them. No team in the league would keep more able pitchers in the minors for a second round of AAA if they have worse pitchers in the major league rotation.
Again, was Olney’s list based on starting 5 or based on all pitchers that could possibly pitch this year? I assumed it was starting 5 when I read this article. Did Olney mention any AAA players who may join the team in any of the write-ups?
Just like the Yankees would start Cano in MLB if they thought he was a capable 2B instead of signing a Tony Womack for depth to make Cano earn his spot? Or start Jeter instead of Tony Fernandez? Or Montero instead of Martin and Posada? Or give Nova a spot instead of making him earn it in spring training? The Yankees bring in veteran depth ahead of prospects all the time. That they think a prospect has a good chance to excel at some point doesn’t mean they know he will to a point they don’t want to cover their bases.
Again, depth is part of your rotation. You can’t rationally talk about a rotation while ignoring depth.
Just like the Yankees would start Cano in MLB if they thought he was a capable 2B instead of signing a Tony Womack for depth to make Cano earn his spot? Or start Jeter instead of Tony Fernandez? Or Montero instead of Martin and Posada? Or give Nova a spot instead of making him earn it in spring training?
No, not just like those times. What I’m talking about is like the time in 2011/2012 when the Yankees didn’t use Phelps or Warren because they aren’t good enough/ready to compete in the majors.
Side Note: You think Jeter and Cano were brought up too late? Not given substantial roles? Yikes.
Remember all those times people mentioned how you strawman their views? This is one of those times. Even if your strawmen are weak ones.
Even using your assumption that the Yankees are brimming with major league average pitching stored away in AAA, does that appreciably change the rankings? They still have 2 pitchers reasonably projected to be below average and 2 pitchers reasonably projected to be average. Of course, they could all pitch better, but that goes for every pitcher in the world.
I presume since you ignored where I asked if Olney referenced minor league pitchers anywhere in the article that he didn’t, which leads me to believe he was just ranking starting 5, in which case Sidd Finch and Steve Nebraska down in Scranton don’t apply.
Or does starting rotation mean something I’m not aware?
*fair
/some jackass that corrects minor grammar mistakes
I resemble that remark.
A lot of teams are phelps Warren betances deep as well, At least 5 other teams have a banuelos too
Which teams?
OK. So we don’t have Halladay, Lee and Hamels but we still managed to win 97 games second to the Phils in MLB. The starters won about 60 or more of those games and I expect about 70-72 from them this year.
Team wins and pitcher wins correlate poorly with performance or ability.
That is true but at one time or another your pitchers have to give up less runs than the other team in order for you to win.
Have a Happy New Year Plank, Ted, Montero is dinero Axisa Mandel , Joe, Koestler, et al. May the Yankees win it all in 2012. A happy one to all Yankee fans everywhere!
Happy New Year.
The rotation rankings do seem really volatile to me. You’ve got 4 or 5 starters who all theoretically start about the same number of games (with the 5th spot close behind even if you skip it where you can). There are a whole lot of question marks and speculation in the second half of the rankings. After the top four or five the Yankees could easily end up as good as the rest. They finished with the 10th rotation xFIP is baseball last season and the 6th fWAR to go with the 14th ERA despite a hitters park in the AL, so if AJ figures out the HR problem and the young guys develop they can make up for losing Colon’s 150 innings and be a top 10 rotation again this season.
I don’t take any exception to the Yankees not being in the top 10 with their question marks… I just think that there’s a huge margin of error resulting in a lot of overlap. A lot of assuming career years will be repeated and young pitchers will get better for other teams, which ironically is exactly what the Yankees need to end up a top 10 rotation again this season. (Fister is going to be as good and Porcello is better based on the postseason… Arizona’s young guys will be as good… Texas’ unproven guys will work out… That’s 5, 6, and 7 in the rankings right there.)
Texas is better.
Olney had 2,teams tied for 10th best rotation and then mentioned the Cardinals and Brewers so apparently the Yankees weren’t even in the top 13 best starting rotations.
Add Kuroda. Where would Yanks rank then?
11th
I thought that was funny.
Not sure how you rank the Red Sod lineup as better than the Yankees. Their lineup has no top, no depth, and who knows what they’ll get from Youkilis. At least is A-Rod duplicates last years substandard performance in 2012 the Yankees won’t be hurting too bad.
Red Sox better at:
1B, DH (I know, I know), 3B
Yankees better at:
SS, RF (both by wide margins)
Push or really close:
C, 2B, LF, CF
I’d rather have the Yankees, but not enough to complain about the Red Sox getting ranked higher.
And you’re going injured Youk over injured A Rod? Typically don’t disagree with you but damn dude…
At this point I would. I’m at the point of expecting 100-120 games of declining performance each year from Arod. He’s 36, his best days are behind him. I’m guessing he has one more year out of the 6 when he stays reasonably healthy and puts it all together. I’d rather have the 32 year old Youkilis even though as you said, he has injury concerns himself.
He’s my favorite Yankee, so I don’t like saying it, but I just don’t see any indication that a 36 year old player with his history suddenly finds the fountain of youth.
I think that’s a pessimistic take. It may be correct, but just as easily wrong. There are a number of elite players that posted fine numbers in their late 30′s. Is Thome in better shape they ARod? Was Aaron?
If ARod has lost a lot of power, will he adjust, and still be a .300 hitter will a bunch of doubles?
Sure, he’s at an age where .950 OPS years don’t look too probable. But this is a guy who works like a dog, and has a lot of pride and motivation. I would not count him out yet.
Thome and Aaron are two of the most gracefully aging players in the history of the game. Arod has already shown decline for a few seasons both in terms of production and health. What reason do you thing Arod will up his game and follow in their footsteps instead of the other thousands of players who have played the game and shown similar aging patterns.
You could be right, I just highly doubt it. I don’t think my views on Arod would be seen as pessimistic on a non-Yankees site.
depends on his knee, at this point. Remember that ball of fire last spring? He coulda OPSed 950, but his knee put the fire out. If it has healed from hs arthro surgery, he could slug it again, vitally.
I have to agree with your assessment Plank.
I think our OF out hits Boston’s any day of the week, if based on last season. Granderson is the best of all six and right now I would take Swisher over any of their OF past Ellsbury.
It certainly wasn’t close in LF last season. Crawford gave the Red Sox 0.2 fWAR for the low price of $14 million.
Yeah, that’s fare (or is it fair?)
I made that list in 30 seconds. The other thing I would change is saying Jeter will be better by a wide margin. I think he’ll be better, but not more than the other positions on the list.
Scutaro’s pretty steady. He had a 2.9 fWAR last season in 113 games compared to Jeter’s 2.4 in 131.
bWAR has him at 1.1 vs. Jeter’s 0.7, so too close to call with WAR.
Yeah, if you wanna say Scutaro is better going forward than Jeter, that’s fair. I would still take Jeter even though he’s gonna be 38 (yikes!)
As long as we’re ranking things, Tripping Olney > Buster Olney, and it’s not even close.
lol…ietc
A little surprised by the Reds infield ranking so high, is that all the Joey Votto Effect? I’d take the Red Sox and Yankees infields over the Reds.
though I didn’t read the article I would imagine that defense rightfully so weighed heavily in Buster’s decision making process. As dreadful as Tex’s season was last year and as great as Votto’s was Tex still managed to out homer and drive in more runs than.
Thats true, since offense has it’s own category in lineup. Good point.
Is your name about Rafael or is it about Alfpnso because he lied about his age?
I don’t have Insider, so forgive if this question is well answered, but what EXACTLY are these lists ranking? Defensive? Offensive? Both??
Kind of off topic, but this is from Olney’s bio on the linked page:
Buster Olney is a senior writer at ESPN The Magazine.
It never struck me until now how awkward that title is. Why isn’t it just ESPN or ESPN magazine? The name of the magazine has ‘The’ as the second word. Just awful.
Why would anyone give a shit what Buster Olney thinks? It literally has no bearing on real life.
Buston Onley has taken the lead role from Gammons as a documented Boston “homer” as Gammons ages.