Jan
12

Edwin Jackson and falling prices

By

(AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

Word got out late last night that Hal Steinbrenner met with Scott Boras during the quarterly owners meeting in Arizona, specifically to discuss free agent right-hander Edwin Jackson. The Yankees owner told Boras they would “think about the right deal” for Jackson, indicating that they “want to keep deals short.” Given all this talk about the 2014 austerity budget, that’s not a surprise.

Pitchers and catchers will report to camp in just five weeks, so the offseason clock is running out for teams that want to improve and players that want to be employed in 2012. We’ve already seen some prices drop in recent days, specifically that sweetheart one-year deal Ryan Madson (another Boras guy) took from the Reds. Paul Maholm also signed for less (one-year, $4.25M) than what he probably could have gotten earlier this winter, a contract that pales in comparison to what some comparable pitchers (Aaron Harang, Chris Capuano, Bruce Chen) received. It’s still a sellers’ market, just not as much of one as it was a month ago.

At this point, I’ve kinda resigned myself to the fact that the Yankees will end up signing Jackson. The parallels to Rafael Soriano last year are pretty staggering, and all the increased chatter over the last week only fuels that fire. He’s a fine pitcher and will undoubtedly help the team, so my only significant concern is the contract, and specifically its potential to hinder a pursuit of Cole Hamels next year. There’s no guarantee the lefty will even hit the market — right now the two sides are only talking about a one-year deal for 2012 — but I want them to be prepared if he does. Like CC Sabathia back a few years ago, Hamels is an elite arm that you have to prepare for in advance, not just someone you pursue because he just so happens to be the best guy on the market, kinda like Jackson now. A one-year deal for Roy Oswalt or Hiroki Kuroda both fits the Hamels plan and improves the rotation this year.

The report of ownership getting involved both does and doesn’t scare me. Obviously bad things tend to happen when owners play GM, but at the same time this doesn’t sound like an instance in which Hal sought out Boras. The agent showed up to the owners meetings to do his job, and that’s really it. Boras did meet with the Nationals’ owners about Prince Fielder yesterday, so it’s not like this trip was specifically designed to unload Jackson on the Yankees. Or maybe it was, we can’t be sure, but for some reason I feel more comfortable with this type of thing in Hal’s hands than I do some of the other higher-ups.

Everything we’ve heard over the past week, about the Yankees reevaluating their budget and this last stuff with Boras, sure makes it sound like something is go down with Jackson before long. All the evidence is pointing in that direction. I’ve made it no secret that I’m not Jackson’s biggest fan, but he is a worthy add to the rotation under the right terms. With prices starting to drop around the league, the chances of the Yankees getting him under favorable terms is going up just a tad, and every little bit helps.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Darren

    I don’t want Edwin Jackson primarily because he has a boring name.

    • Dropped Third

      E-Jax aint doing it for you?

      • MannyGeee

        Birth Name: Edwin Jackson
        Nickname: None
        Born On: 09-09-1983 (Virgo

        Per B-Ref… boring name FTW

    • Rainbow Connection

      Like I wrote in another thread, think of him as:
      Edwin Jacksoff

    • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

      I said it before — he changes name to Win. And if he comes here—just take the ball and do it. BUT don’t overspend — those Yankee dollahs r 4 Coleraptor .

  • Thomas Cassidy

    2/26 with a 3rd year option for 14 million or a 2 million buyout. Take it or leave it.

    • Flying Choppers

      Yeah, he’s not signing for less than Soriano got.

      • Thomas Cassidy

        Then he can leave it. It doesn’t look like he has a market right now, so 28 million guaranteed for two years isn’t bad.

  • Billion$Bullpen

    I HATE THIS. Please somebody else sign this kid. If I could speak to the owners I would scream save the $ and flexibility for once make the move about the long term and not the short term gain. They are so shook that if the Yanks are not in first place nobody will pay to sit in the moat and YES rating will dive that they make dumb moves almost every year because of it.

    • Flying Choppers

      This. If this goes through, Cashman has no credibility. None. And don’t give me this nonsense that he’s not in control. He could have demanded no repeats of Soriano as a part of his extension exactly because it limits their flexibility when they really want to go get a guy.

      He took his extension willingly even after what happened with Soriano. He’s just as responsible for what happens as anybody else. He can’t both stand aside when an awful decision is made, trash that decision as if he had no part in it, then willingly sign an extension for more of the same. He’s just as culpable as anyone at this point.

      • Steve (different one)

        Culpable to whom? Cashman does NOT report to the fans or even the media, something we always seem to forget.

        If Hal decides to sign Jackson and Jackson doesn’t work out, Cashman is not “culpable”, because his boss, Hal Steinbrenner, knows he made this particular decision.

        All of the gnashing of teeth on the internet won’t change this.

        • Flying Choppers

          And yet he makes very public pronouncements about the future of the team – from how they are re-devoting to young pitching to they have no interest in Soriano. Who exactly is he speaking to then if not the fans or the media?

          If he has no final say over personnel decisions, why just shut the f up and do your job? If he doesn’t like it, he didn’t have to sign the extension. Or he didn’t have to sign it without the guarantees that guys like Levine would be allowed to meddle.

          See, Cashman can’t have it both ways – say they don’t have the resources for the moves he’d prefer then sit back and watch as they blow those resources on borderline upgrades. He signed his extension this winter long after the Soriano debacle. Of course, it’s hard to argue Soriano was a mistake when you’re the one who pushed hard for Pavano, Burnett, Teixeira, Marte, and Feliciano.

      • Ted Nelson

        Huh? Cashman isn’t in control. He’s an employee.

        When you tell your boss not to do something and they do it anyway, is that your responsibility?

        • Flying Choppers

          “When you tell your boss not to do something and they do it anyway, is that your responsibility?”

          Yes, when you publicly bitch about it after the fact, disavow any involvement, then sign a lucrative extension without addressing the gap in decision making.

          Cashman could work for any team he wants. He chose to cash paycheck for this one. Either he supports his boss’s decisions or he goes to work elsewhere.

          • MattG

            It’s true. Everyone does this. If you don’t agree with your boss, you immediately walk into his office and quit, regardless of how many millions you make, where your family wants to live, and numerous other concerns.

            • Flying Choppers

              Yeah, cause “everyone” signs an extension for millions after they very publicly rip their boss and their decisions. “Everyone” also signs that extension when they could get that same job almost anywhere in the country and very likely in the same city.

              • MattG

                Hey, I was agreeing with you. I could spend all day listing names of executives that have walked away from their jobs due to philosophical agreements with the corporation’s owner. If there is one thing we know for certain about all executives, it’s that they don’t care about money at all–all they care about is integrity and honor. Cashman is clearly the first executive in the history of humanity to sell his soul for a buck.

                • jsbrendog

                  mommy, what’s a golden parachute?

          • OldYanksFan

            Dude… are you serious or just on medication?
            Have YOU ever had a Boss?
            Do you really think someone should just up and quit whenever their Boss makes a stupid decision?

            If so, nobody would have a job.
            Get real Dude.
            It’s Life.
            Cashman has to live with it, just like EVERYONE else.

            • Flying Choppers

              Yeah, Dooode, he signed an extension this winter so he could just deal with it. He dealt with it just fine last year too when Soriano was signed, right. Nary a peep from him.

              I bet you regularly bitch about your boss’s decisions to the press, too, Dude. How’s your employment contract looking, Dude? Ready to sign an extension yet?

              • Ted Nelson

                Your argument is made up. When did Cashman bitch? Stating that you didn’t agree with a decision is not bitching. He specifically said he would not bitch because every other GM in baseball would kill to have owners who spend more than they want them to.

                Get your facts straight.

                • Flying Choppers

                  Oh, yeah? He did it at the press conference.

                  http://online.wsj.com/article/.....02238.html

                  Then he signed an extension.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    Please point out to me where he bitches.

                    I do not consider stating you disagree with a decision bitching. Do you? If you are disagreeing with my comments as we speak, does that mean you are bitching?

                    Is this bitching?
                    “”I didn’t change my mind,” Mr. Cashman said of his opposition to Mr. Soriano’s signing. “My recommendation stood. It was received, it was heard, it was dissected, and then Hal had to do what Hal’s job as owner is: he had to make a difficult decision, and he made one.””

          • Ted Nelson

            It’s his job. He’s not a fan. He probably doesn’t care as much about the team winning as he does about getting paid… you know… providing for his family.

            • Flying Choppers

              Ah, yes, a guy who could get most any job in baseball is worried about providing for his family over any shred of principles. Meanwhile, per Cot’s, he’s made $16M in the last ten year. Pity the family!

              • Ted Nelson

                I didn’t say pity them or they were struggling. I am saying that he is trying to provide for them. That he can provide more for them than the vast majority of other parents doesn’t mean he should walk away from a job he may enjoy at a great salary over minor disagreements with his bosses. Some level of disagreement is healthy in any organization. It’s going to be very, very, very rare for any two people to see eye to eye on every single investment decision.

                • Flying Choppers

                  This result is now happening every single off-season. Cashman makes pronouncement X. The team promptly goes in direction Y. It used to be the case that Cashman defenders claimed he wasn’t in control. Now you pretend he’s mostly in control, except when he isn’t. How convenient.

                  He signed an extension based on what happened last year. He’s made a bunch of noise to the press (and so fans) about how they’re budget limited. Now the “team” going to make him a liar again? But for credibility he’ll need to “disown” the decision, right? Riiiiiight.

                  As for your other lame argument, he can have any position in baseball and likely making more money and with more control (see Epstein –> Cubs). No, this pretile knows exactly what he signed up for.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    It has happened once…

                    If you own a business, you are in control of it. Does Cashman own the Yankees? Is this really that hard of a concept to grasp?

                    Epstein is not in control of the Cubs, either.

      • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

        When you have a boss, that boss will sometimes go above your head and do things. Even people in high places have bosses. It happens. The higher you’re up in the food chain, the more you have to answer to someone else.

        Love,
        Someone with a boss

        • Flying Choppers

          Go bitch to the press about the last awful decision your boss made. Tell me how that works out for you. If you want to use everyday examples, don’t ignore the details that matter.

          Then, when offered to sign a lucrative three-year extension if the boss’s awful decisions really mean something to you, don’t sign the extension unless you address those decisions first. Because, if you’ve very publicly criticized those decisions, and they still want to give you that lucrative extension, chances are you can get a job pretty much anywhere you’d like to.

          • Ted Nelson

            When did Cashman bitch? He said he disagreed with the decision. That is not bitching.

            Obviously the 3 year multi-million dollar extension meant more to Cashman than occasionally having his bosses spend more than he wants them to. And it would mean more to me as well, and probably 99.9% of other people. Signing the extension is evidence that he wants to work for the Yankees in that role for that salary. It is not evidence that he believes his bosses are perfect.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Furthermore, Hal told him to speak honestly at the press conference. It didn’t come out of nowhere. There’s a credibility thing here, Cashman spent the majority of the offseason telling agents he wasn’t going to do a three-year for a reliever.

              • Flying Choppers

                RIiiiiight. Speak “honestly” then sign an $9M extension. He’s a little errand boy. No matter what he says can’t be believed. Really, people, this is goign to be the game we play every off-season. Cashman says one thing, the “team” does something else, then Cashman maintains credibility by publicly disowning the decision? How convenient…

                If Cashman had a problem with how decisions are being made in Yankeeland, he didn’t have to sign the extension. Then he uses the lack of resources to argue for non-moves.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  My goodness are you predictable.

              • Ted Nelson

                Good point.

  • Brian Paul

    Hopefully he doesn’t block or stunt the development of Noesi, but I’m sure he will. If the yanks want to sign Hamels, and hit their budget goals for 2014, this is going to have to be one sweetheart of a deal.

  • kenthadley

    If Yanks are re-evaluating their budget, and Hal is now getting involved, there must be some concern about either ticket sales or YES ad-sales. EJax doesn’t represent a significant uptick in the quality of the team (unless they feel that they can move some of the other pitching for something of significance after they sign him).

    • CP

      If Yanks are re-evaluating their budget, and Hal is now getting involved, there must be some concern about either ticket sales or YES ad-sales.

      Except the reevaluation seems to be in increasing the budget. Which would imply that the ticket sales or ad sales are ahead of their expected pace.

      • MattG

        Not necessarily. There might be advertisers complaining about the Yankees’ inactivity.

        • kenthadley

          this

        • Flying Choppers

          Soriano and Jackson mean nothing to advertisers when you have guys like Jeter and Mo on the roster. If that was the worry, why not an agressive bid for Darvish? He at least brings with him a whole other country.

          Two years for Jackson plus the luxury tax == Darvish’s posting fee.

          I hereby declare that the hot dog vendors pushed Hank to sign Soriano so fans would all want to mimic how much he blows. Since the Yankees won the concessions – PROFIT$!

        • Mister Delaware

          “SIGN EDWIN JACKSON OR WE’RE PULLING OUR ADVERTISEMENTS FROM YOUR GAMES!!!” – The CEOs of every major company

          • Flying Choppers

            LOL. Personally, I liked the idea of hot dog vendors picketing for Soriano.

      • Rainbow Connection

        Nothing sells tickets like…Edwin…Jackson???

        • Mister Delaware

          Without him, Edwin Jackson Night in the middle of July is fucked.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          “Let’s go to the ballpark, Edwin Jackson’s pitching!”

          — nobody

    • Flying Choppers

      Seriously, you really think the Yankees go year to year on decisions like this based on revenues? That’s the height of naivete. A major investor in YES is Goldman Sachs (also an advertiser on this website it seems). They’re all about the Benjamins. YES guarantees the Yankees a profit and if you have any doubt about how much the Yankees should be making on their local TV deal, read the Fox-Dodgers stories now being reported.

      • kenthadley

        then explain Soriano

        • Flying Choppers

          Explain what? They had another $20M burning a hole in their pockets and they chose to spend it…for three years. This cry of poverty has no bearing in reality. Goldman Sachs would never stand for no yearly ROI. The YES piggy bank is always open, and the beautiful thing about the arrangement is that the Yankees can hide their profits there from MLB revenue sharing.

          • kenthadley

            We differ in our opinions of the Soriano deal. My take is Hank/Hal were told that either ticket sales and/or Yes advertising needed a new face to charge up the benjamins.

            • Flying Choppers

              We differ in how many pots of gold are at the end of the rainbow. Go read about the Fox-Dodgers TV contract then go find ho much the Yankees are making each year from YES.

              Soriano doesn’t mean squat to advertising. Darvish maybe could have. But don’t let your opinions get in the way of reality.

              • kenthadley

                Since you seem to be so familiar with investing and Goldman Sachs, you also know that it doesn’t matter what you made last year, it matters how much growth you are getting in the current year. And as far as reality is concerned, go read about what Fox will communicate to the Dodgers each year about now if the advertising they are selling isn’t growing over the past year. You will see the Dodgers all of a sudden active in bringing in new faces for Fox to market their product.

                • Flying Choppers

                  Do you understand the concept of a “multi-year contract”?

                  • kenthadley

                    apparently better than you understand marketing a product.

                    • Flying Choppers

                      Apparently not, if you think wished for changes in marketing can dictate changes in an existing contract. Or that advertisers can dictate roster moves for the Yankees. Or that Soriano and Jackson are involved in any advertising decision by anyone, anywhere.

    • Ted Nelson

      What would be the second best SP on the team by a pretty wide margin doesn’t improve the quality of the team?

      • kenthadley

        That’s your opinion of him, Ted. Mine is that he’s the second best on the team if Hughes doesn’t bounce back, if Nova isn’t as good as he was last year, if Noesi isn’t Nova2012, and if AJ isn’t as good as his playoff start was. With all those if’s, I’d prefer somebody as my 2 who was better than EJax.

        • DERP

          Jackson is better than 2010 Hughes and 2011 Nova. Also, AJ’s playoff start last year was nothing special. Those are really big ifs you have.

          • kenthadley

            And if he’s signed and wins 13 games, he’s Garcia…what’s the chances of him winning 13 games? That’s pretty close to his typical year.

            • JobaWockeeZ

              Lol wins.

              • Rainbow Connection

                LOL!

        • JobaWockeeZ

          You’re complaining about ifs when your counter argument is all ifs. Pegging Hughes anywhere better than league average is a complete optimistic guess. Edwin out FIp’ed, out xFIP’ed, and out SIERA’s Nova so that’s a funny argument. Noesi is a complete unknown and AJ is one of the worst starters in all of baseball.

          Ejax would by far be the second best starter on this team.

          • kenthadley

            If it is by far (like a Cliff Lee would be) then why are they only interested in a one year contract? I would think that if they thought Ejax was by far the best 2 they would have, they’d be more aggressive in going after him.

            According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, the Yankees are only interested in a one-year deal for Edwin Jackson or Hiroki Kuroda.
            Related: Yankees, Hiroki Kuroda
            Source: Joel Sherman on Twitter Jan 12 – 12:58 PM

            • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

              “Better than the rest” of the non-CC staff, and obviously so, doesn’t make him worth the financial/year commitment he may require. Nor does it make him Cliff Lee. Sheesh.

              Even a marginal improvement can be obvious. That doesn’t make it the right thing to do. Especially when there are dramatic improvements (e.g. Hamels) potentially coming down the pike, and making the marginal move now may prohibit the dramatic move later. A one year deal gets us an incremental and obvious improvement and doesn’t hamper us going not 2013. What’s hard to understand about that? Why do you equate him being an obvious improvement to the club with an assumption that we’d want him for a long time?

        • Ted Nelson

          Exactly… that’s a lot of “ifs.” I am not saying he will definitely be their second best starter. I’m saying that he is projected to be their second best starter based on historical performance. There is no way to guarantee future results.

          In the most likely case he is an upgrade… and that’s what you’re looking for in projecting the future.

  • Rich in NJ

    At the very least, dumping AJ’s contract should be a condition precedent to any Jackson deal.

    • Bronx Byte

      Can’t do one without the other. Burnett has to be gone first and Cashman hasn’t had any takers.
      Might be stuck with the lemon for another year and witness more crash and burns after the 3rd inning.

      • Rich in NJ

        I think there could be takers if they were willing to eat an amount between the Braves’ subsidy of Lowe’s contract and the Cubs’ subsidy of Zambrano’s contract.

        I really don’t want this rotation:

        CC
        Nova
        Jackson
        Burnett
        Hughes/Garcia/Noesi (if they are the ones to compete for one spot)

        In fact, it’s hard to imagine that Garcia won’t start to begin the season, so it could force Hughes into the pen.

        Of course, a willingness to put AJ in the pen, if necessary, might change things.

  • nucchemist

    He is definate upgrade over Garcia and Burnett. How surprised would you be if Garcia either gets hurt or regresses significantly from last year? I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

    • jsbrendog

      freddy garcia had a much better year than edwin jackson last yr for 1/8th the price

      • JobaWockeeZ

        Bullshit. A sub 6 K/9 pitcher and a 38 GB% pitcher Ejax is not. Don’t even go there.

        • jsbrendog

          freddy garcia 2011 – 3.4 bwar for $1.5 mil and 2.2 fwar, 122 ERA+

          Edwin Jackson 2011 (remember, most of this was in the pre cards days, he sucked on the cardinals)
          3.1 bwar (0.8 after the trade in ~75 innings) at $8.75 mill
          3.8 fwar and a 106 era+

          now freddy makes 4 mill plus incentives and jackson wants 15+ mill

          all things considered, for a team looking for a short term fix, edwin isnt an upgrade over freddy garcia. freddy is old but has been solid 2 yrs in a row, much better last yr than 2010, and how do you know edwin jackson isnt the pumpkin he was in St Louis that DIDNT pitch in the playoffs he was so bad?

          • Mister Delaware

            Using bWAR going forward is saying the underlying inputs to the ERA don’t matter, just the ERA. That’s not going to work.

            • Mister Delaware

              (That was poorly phrased. What I’m saying is everything pro-Garcia you referenced, ERA+ and bWAR, is strictly ERA based. Past ERA doesn’t predict future ERA and Jackson has the much better underlying numbers. There. That felt better.)

      • Mister Delaware

        A “much” better year if you exempt raw SO numbers and rates, SO/BB, isoP against, GB% and bulk innings, yes.

  • Legend77

    1 year 15 mil take it or leave it Mr Boras. Next year let him and Garcia both go, shify Hughes back to the pen and sign Hamels and bring up Noesi and Man Ban. Gives us three lefties and 2 righties in the roatation.

    1) CC
    2) Cole
    3) Nova
    4) Man Ban
    5) Noesi

    9th)Robertson
    8th) Joba
    7th)Soriano
    6th) Hughes
    LR/MR Wade&Kontos
    LOOgy) Logan

    Trade Betantes and Warren for a RF, pay 75% of AJ’s contract and trade him to anyone who will take him and lets win another World Series!

    • Legend77

      Of course if Mo doesn’t retire he still closes shift everyone one inning forward and keep Kontos in the minors.

    • Thomas Cassidy

      I’ll pass on almost all of that.

      What RFer do you think you can get for Betances and Warren? You can’t get anything even close to Swisher for that, you might as well resign Swisher or just wait for Mason Williams.

      Why is Hughes going back to the bullpen, and if he does, why is he a mop-up reliever? Chances are he’d be the set-up man assuming that Rivera is retired (which I think he won’t be).

    • Thomas Cassidy

      It’s also not a video game. You can’t just sign Hamels. Remember Cliff Lee? He was on my Yankee team in MLB the Show, but in real life he was on the Phillies. If I had to guess the 2013 Yankees’ roster, this would be it:

      Sabathia
      Hamels
      Nova
      Hughes
      Banuelos

      Rivera
      Robertson
      Soriano
      Wade
      Kontos/Joba
      (Insert shitty LOOGY here)
      Betances

      Jeter
      Granderson
      Cano
      Tex
      Montero
      A-Rod
      Swisher
      Romine
      Gardner

      Nunez
      Cervelli
      (Insert random infielder)
      (Insert randon outfielder/Andruw Jones)

      • Legend77

        You like Hughes more then I do and I like Joba more then you do. Joba is a future closer while Hughes will struggle with any role he is given.

        • Mister Delaware

          Joba isn’t a future closer and Hughes will not struggle with any role he is given. Cancelled out!

        • Thomas Cassidy

          I like Joba, too. But he isn’t a future closer. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year is his last year with the Yankees.

          Did Hughes struggle in 2010? In 2009 in the bullpen?

  • Flying Choppers

    Boras is plying his media partners like a fiddle. First we read about Jackson’s availability. Then we read about Boras meeting with Hal. Hmmmm, I wonder who’s leaking these details?

    All I ask is one consider the sniff test. If Jackson is as good as claimed, AND prices are dropping, why are the Yankees the ones connected to him? Where are the Red Sox? Or Rangers? Or Orioles? Or Nationals? Or, hell, even the Mutts? Plenty of teams need a decent starter…

    Jackson won’t be heling much with paring down that 2014 budget. He won’t be signing for any less than three years.

    • jsbrendog

      the mets are bankrupt.

      • Flying Choppers

        The Rangers were when they got Lee…

        • jsbrendog

          they were bankrupt in the midst of an ownership change. the mets are just bankrupt

    • John Ya Ya

      Sounds like a classic Boras “leak” to me. He’s always trying to use the Yankees to drive up the asking price for his clients using a phantom market. Did Jon Heyman break this big “story”?

  • Jose M. Vazquez..

    Regression is the word. Many pitchers that have passed through the able hands of Dave Duncan have made good while they are in his hands. After they leave, they seem to undergo a metamorphosis to what they were before, e.g. Pineiro, Marquis to name a few. I hope if signed that Prof. Rothschild can get the same value out of him.

    • Ted Nelson

      Jackson didn’t suddenly put it together under Duncan, though. His FIP and ERA+ were both significantly worse after arriving in St. Louis last season.

      • Mister Delaware

        Part of that was La Russa’s decision to leave him to die in a few games.

    • Flying Choppers

      Where does he teach, Hogwarts?

      • Jose M. Vazquez..

        Do you mean hogwash or hogworts?

      • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

        Dave Eiland was last seen as an adjunct in Hufflepuff House. True Story.

  • Dave

    Assuming the Yankees do sign Jackson, what I don’t get is why the Steinbrenners continually tell Cashman that he’s got to stick to a budget, then blow up the budget when the prime free agents are already gone? Instead of panicking after everyone has already made their move, why not tell Cashman he has an extra 40 million to get Lee or Darvish?

    • Rich in NJ

      Because they can?

      Seriously, it’s not rational in terms of maximum utilization of available funds.

  • Mike Spags

    Can someone please tell me how a career .500 pitcher, with an ERA of 4.4+ and a WHIP of almost 1.5 is an upgrade???

    • Mike

      Compared to AJ. .. its an upgrade

    • Foghorn Leghorn

      I’m not a gynocolgist, but I’ll take a stab at it…

      when your rotation includes A J Burnett, anything is an upgrade.

      • BK2ATL

        I agree, but do we need another 4th or 5th starter at $10-15 million per?

        • Foghorn Leghorn

          the reason to sign jackson is that there is little faith in Burnett, hughes, nova and garcia and the kids aren’t ready yet.

          • BK2ATL

            So 2 AJ Burnetts on the staff inspires faith or confidence???

    • thenamestsam

      It’s also not really fair to use the career numbers for someone who entered the majors at age 20and bounced around a lot before putting it together the last 3 years. His last 3 years are each better than either Nova’s 2011 or Hughes 2010, and better than Garcia or Burnett have been in a number of years. That is an upgrade.

  • mike_h

    there is no guarantee the Hamels will be a free agent next yr (Phillies get 1st bid to re-sign, and who knows if he’ll give them a hometown discount). Jackson will improve the rotation, no question.

    I’d offer two contracts. 4yr/$52 or 3yr/$41 (with an opt out and end of 2012)

    • game watcher

      U must work for the Mets.

    • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

      Ugh! So the price has “come down” and you’d want to push it back up?

      I’d be OK for 2/28, but otherwise why do it? There are pitchers of Jackson’s caliber available every year. Why lock yourself in?

      People can argue using crap stats like FIP and WAR that Jackson would be the second best starter on the Yankees. (Personally I think he will get crushed in the AL East).

      Fine.

      That said, no one can make the argument and there are no stats to support that Jackson is a legit #2 starter or has the upside to be one. At this point in his career best case scenario is that he continues to do what he has done the past two years.

      With Kuroda or Oswalt at least you have the potential upside of them being an ace or true #2 starter. And the financial commit is much less significant.

      The only way that Jackson makes sense is if you really think you need someone to eat innings and that the rest of the staff (Hughes, Burnett, Garcia) is going to implode and there is going to be a huge void. While I don’t like the Yankees rotation, I just don’t see that happening.

      • thenamestsam

        There are actually lots of very simple stats to support him being a #2 starter. He is 20th in baseball over the last 3 years in fWAR, right behind guys like Matt Cain and Cole Hamels, and right in front of guys like Shields, Beckett and Gallardo. He has been one of the better, more consistent pitchers in baseball the last 3 years, whether everyone on here can believe it or not.

  • CJ

    The Yankees can never get a sweetheart signing like madson.

    • Foghorn Leghorn

      Teams just don’t deal with the Yanks like they do with other teams. Even the Red Sox….they always seem to pull off favorable trades. Yanks always get asked to put in more than others.

      Finally, Cashman is not participating.

      • BK2ATL

        Cashman’s not, but the Yankees are.

        The Yankees’ best strategy at this moment, is the one that Cashman is trying to employ. Pretty much stand pat offensively, since we have ample firepower for now.

        Pitching-wise, lock up the ace (done) and lock down the bullpen (done). Find another quality veteran to stabilize the rotation (Garcia). Possibly find another quality starter at reasonable cost (still pending). Fill in the rest from the farm system (Montero, Cervelli/Romine, Nunez, Noesi, Kontos/Warren/Phelps) and quality low-cost FAs (Jones, Wade, Garcia, possibly Chavez).

        It’s the best way to get the payroll under control, build value in prospects for trades (if needed) or for the ballclub’s future, compete for the WS, and lower expectations from other GMs and the FA market, since Cashman wouldn’t be desperate.

      • Jose M. Vazquez..

        Amen to that!

    • Billion$Bullpen

      Why would the Yankees get a great free agent deal when they always let somebody run in the back door? Their hand is always tipped. If we had unlimited roster spots and / or were willing to let loose a bad contract killing a roster spot and in effect hamstringing the chances of us winning rings (like how Jason Giambi should have been cut loose several times for example) then ok, no problem with doing longer term higher dollar deals to get through the year.

      Field the best team moving forward this year on one year deals. Tell Boras to come back when he has an ace in pocket and he will get a deal worthy of an ace. Or come back with a bargin bin guy at bargin bin prices. But keep that #2 starter money but really a bum in ace clothing mess for some boob of an owner/ gm. We need none of that here. Give Cashman the support to back that germ down.

  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

    I’d take him on the very short-term. Even two years is a stretch for me, and that third option year being thrown around would be a dealbreaker. He’d serve the same purpose for me that Oswalt/Kuroda would, and that’s holding down the fort until the team finishes playing “Is This Anything?” with the guys in AAA.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    This must be the only site where a 3.55 FIP is worse than a 4.12.

    • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

      FIP is POOP

      • Mister Delaware

        xFIP is where its at.

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    Two Bits and a Bag of Golfballs.

  • Rich in NJ

    Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman

    But seems unanimity this time that funds limited, not desperate (like with Soriano to counter Redsox). Will be 1-yr or nothing #Yankees

  • OldYanksFan

    I don’t get it.
    Yeah… he’s young and has some talent.
    However…………

    AL: 103 ERA+, 1.466 WHIP
    NL: 84 ERA+, 1.505 WHIP
    ALL: 97 ERA+, 1.476 WHIP

    This is worth $28 million?
    Oh… and 3.7 BB/9

    Are we really THAT desparate?
    Colon isn’t better then this (for $4m!!!!!!!)

    • Mister Delaware

      Availability and upside/stuff are a pretty rare combination. If he were a finished product, he’d cost $100MM.

      • Flying Choppers

        He’s got 1000 MLB innings under his belt and has been in the league since he was 19. Seven different teams have tried working with him, four in the last three years.

        He’s a finished product. That’s the problem.

        • Billion$Bullpen

          +1

        • Mister Delaware

          He’s not a finished product. He’s a guy who has underperformed his stuff and is a better bet than not to continue underperforming his stuff. Not disagreeing. But he could (I’d argue “should”) be better. And that he’s a better bet, in the short term, than a guy with the exact same career numbers and mediocre MLB stuff.

          • Billion$Bullpen

            I would be with you if we are talking a one year deal at low $’s, but no way that happens. How many teams have already given up on this guy? There is a reason for that. I am not saying he can not get better, but what proof is there that he will? Not enough to do a multi year with him.

            • Mister Delaware

              There is no “proof” of anyone improving or even staying stable throughout a contract. No disagreement that he’s a gamble, but its not in lieu of sure things. Pretty much agree on the terms, although I really don’t care if its big money as long as its only a year or two and doesn’t lock a roster spot.

      • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

        I’m unclear what Jackson’s upside is.

        He’s pitched five full seasons. We don’t know exactly who he is already? Do you expect that he’s going to get better? Consider that he was truly ugly 3/5 years he was a starter I think it’s more likely that he regresses in the AL East.

        I just don’t get the excitement over a someone who has the next AJ Burnett/Carl Pavano written all over him.

        When you have to really go searching to come up with peripheral stats to get around a bad ERA and a bad WHIP in easier divisions, that’s not the type of pitcher you want to commit to long term.

        • Mister Delaware

          I didn’t “go searching”, like it was a 45 minute quest to find some singular positive about Jackson then told you he is great at limiting triples in night games. Peripherals are what a lot of us look at because they’re better predictors of future ERA than past ERA is. That’s not opinion, that’s fact. And while its not quite fact, its pretty close to fact that having ERAs under 3.80 in two of the last three years isn’t “bad”. Its actually pretty “good”. A 3.79 ERA for us in 2012 would be just fine with me. Pretty much what we saw from Nova last year.

        • thenamestsam

          His FIP has imrpoved dramatically each of the past 3 years. That sounds like a guy who is still reaching his upside, not someone who can’t get any better.

    • CJ

      I agree that Edwin Jackson is goin to be a regrettable signing.
      But stop with colon, he’s done! It worked, it was lucky it won’t happen again. That’s $4 m to piss away.

      • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

        It doesn’t look like it will take $4 million to sign him. Could be much less than that.

  • Mike Myers

    he passes the “better than AJ” test.

    • Flying Choppers

      A guy who hadn’t hadn’t started 20 games in year since 2006 passed the “better than AJ” test.

    • Billion$Bullpen

      No he really does not. AJ has two years left on a deal that is already signed. This dude will require too much money and too many years and on the real buddy we dont need just better than AJ. If better than AJ is all we are looking for, we might as well skip spring training and cancel the season and hold some concerts in the stadium this summer.

      • Mike Myers

        I was being sarcastic. A guy on the DL is better than AJ because he doesnt provide negative value.

  • Billion$Bullpen

    I am not trying to hijack this thread but I would rather our team be the one talking to Vincente Padilla and not talking about anything like Jackson. I’m sorry miss jackson, I’d give you no deaaaaaaaaaaaaaal.

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      Any particular reason you’re excited about a known headhunter who has beef with our first baseman?

      • Billion$Bullpen

        Because he has also been a pretty good starter and is suppose to be healthy now. He would cost nothing and I really do not have a problem with a guy that will hit somebody when needed. If anything we need more of that here.

        I really also do not need all the guys on the team to be best buddies, friends, or even talk to each other off the field. It is nice that most of the guys on the team seem to deal with each other well. But I do not need that.

        We need low cost high upside pitching options that will do one year deals. He fits the profile.

        • Mister Delaware

          He did kill a dude. That’s a bigger deal than Gary Sheffield being surly.

    • Mister Delaware

      Because he’s got a ton of baggage and you don’t take on baggage with a guy who just walked 5 per 9 as a freakin’ reliever.

  • YanksFanInLA

    Signing E-Jax doesn’t necessarily preclude them from signing Cole if he becomes available. If they can, sign him to an afforable and tradable contract without any no-trade clauses and then trade him at the winter meetings next year for some useful pieces if they need the cash to go after Hamels.

    • Billion$Bullpen

      Right it might not make them not able to sign Cole, but it would stop them for signing the next good pitcher that becomes available or address some other future need.

  • LarryM.,Fl.

    Maybe the signing on a short term contract (2 years) coupled with the unloading of AJ and paying 16 million of his contract leaves 8 million per year toward EJ and the luxury tax is 40% on the remainder over 8 million. This would give us a rotation of CC, EJ, Nova, Hughes and Garcia.This is slightly better and cheaper with Nova, Hughes and Garcia. If Jackson proves to be a good sign after 2 years then we have an oppt. to sign him. Hamels is our oppt. after 2012.

    The key to me is unloading AJ. Back in Dec. I took a wild guess at Jan. 15 as a day for a lefty arm gift wrap to the Yankees fans. Maybe a righty arm instead. I like Jackson and maybe the Bx. appeals to him more than the other stops on his tour of the big leagues. He could be a good 15/17 game winner for us with this club.