Open Thread: Don Zimmer
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(Photo via USA Today)
If you’re my age, then you don’t remember Don Zimmer as anything more than the Yankees bench coach during the early-Joe Torre years and a current special advisor in the Rays front office. That’s just the tip of the iceberg though, the man has lived a baseball lifetime.
Zim started his playing career with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1954, but only after a pitch to the temple nearly killed him in the minors. He spent what amounts to 13 days in a coma in 1953 before recovering to earn a cup of coffee the next year. He spent six years with the Dodgers (four in Brooklyn, two in Los Angeles), two years with the Cubs, half a season with the Mets, half a season with a Reds, another half a season with the Dodgers, two and a half years with the Washington Senators, and one year in Japan. A .235/.290/.372 career hitter, Zimmer played in the 1961 All-Star Game and was primarily a utility player before retiring after the 1966 season. He won a World Series with the Dodgers in 1955 and was part of the 120-loss Mets in 1962.
Once his playing days were over, Zim joining the coaching ranks. He did his time in the minors, then joined the Expos as their third base coach in 1971. He served the same role with the Padres and Red Sox before become the manager in Boston in 1976. The Sox went 411-304 during Zim’s 4+ years at the helm, which included their infamous 1978 collapse. He managed the Rangers in 1981 and 1982, did some coaching for the Yankees and Giants from 1983-1987, then managed the Cubs from 1988-1991. Zimmer coached with the expansion Rockies in the early-90′s before joining Torre’s staff in 1996. That is a lot of baseball.
Today is Zimmer’s 81st birthday, and 2012 will be his 64th year in baseball. He’s written two books and is the last former Brooklyn Dodger still working in baseball in some capacity. I’ll remember him for the helmet you see above (after Chuck Knoblauch hit him with a foul ball) and for the Red Sox brawl during the 2003 ALCS, when Pedro Martinez threw him to the ground. That’s just me though, there is no shortage of reasons to remember the guy.
* * *
Here’s your open thread for this evening. All three hockey locals are in action tonight, but I sure hope you weren’t planning on watching any of the games if you’re a Time Warner customer (Update: The Rangers are on NBC Sports, formerly Versus. Hooray for that.). Still no MSG. Anyway, you folks know what to do, so have at it.
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Hard to believe that I can remember Zimmer playing for the Mets…short term.
Do we have any interest in Teahen?
His Topps baseball card reads Reds but he’s clearly wearing a Mets cap! Zim, baseball’s real-life Forrest Gump. Without the idiocy, of course.
Also, he was present and in uniform for all three Yankees perfect games in the Bronx: Don Larsen in Game 5 of the 1956 World Series, David Wells in ‘98, David Cone in ‘99. Zimmer was there for the first as a Brooklyn Dodger, the latter 2 as a Yankee coach.
Pedro didn’t really throw him down, he kinda stepped out of the way and pushed. Don Z charged Pedro, that was the best part of the incident.
Manny Banuelos was named by MLB.com the 2nd best LHP prospect after Matt Moore
Time to trade him.
To Seattle for their new DH.
Link
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
As much as I like the Montero/Pineda trade, I still think I’d rather they just bid 55 mil for Darvish and lock him up with a 5/60 type deal. Keep your stud hitting prospect. Hang on to your young, cheap #6/7 starter (depending on if they still sign Kuroda). And get the young top of the rotation pitcher you desire.
Perhaps that would preclude them from getting below 190mil for 2014, and that’s why they didn’t. Or maybe Cash isn’t comfortable going big in the posting system for a relative unknown (AKA Igawa Syndrome). I do also wonder if this trade (or if they got Darvish) would take them out of the running for Hamels/Cain/etc.
I pretty much agree with this. I would add the Pineda/Montero trade and getting Darvish aren’t mutually exclusive. They could have done both and had probably the best rotation in the league.
But with Darvish in tow, it’s much less likely they trade Montero… unless if Cashman really felt Jesus was being overvalued in the market. Which we’ll never really know.
I would still make the trade. The trade didn’t add any money to the payroll. The Darvish signing would have prevented the Kuroda signing. They still would have needed another pitcher. The same pluses and minuses would apply to the Montero/Pineda trade if they had Darvish or not.
But whatever, I’m just rosterbating.
“But whatever, I’m just rosterbating.”
It’s what we do best this time of year.
But the trade DID add money to the payroll since we need to sign a DH replacement
A so so DH is alot cheaper than even a so so starter. A platoon DH even more so.
And so the rangers will sign Yu Darvish and prince fielder
I can’t tell if you are trolling, or just posted in the wrong spot, or you think it’s connected to what I said.
It’s possible the Rangers sign both. They said the wouldn’t sign both, but maybe that’s just a negotiating tactic.
Not trolling just watching Tyler kepner and curry on YES say they want to sign both. Oh and kepner says Texas is the “class of the American league”
Let Tyler Kepner think they’re the class of the American League. It won’t affect my enjoyment of Yankee baseball next year.
You mention Prince Fielder so much I’ve accidentally read it to be Jay Fiedler on more than one occasion. There’s one nightmare I don’t want to relive.
Ah, but is it gym class or math class?
Spend an extra $12 million a year on a guy who doesn’t even have PINEDA’s MLB experience, plus the posting fee. The epitomy of “not my money.”
LOL, that is true.
But, by paying the money, you get to keep Montero, in theory anyway. Which eliminates one need from the lineup. And the added inventory of having Noesi around.
I personally think the Yankee brass isn’t crazy about going out on a limb for a Japanese pitcher. Getting Darvish only required money, something they have. Not prospects, or draft picks or players already on the big league roster. And Darvish is the best pitcher to come out of Japan… better AND younger than Dice K. At some point a young Japanese pitcher is going to come stateside and become a top of the rotation stalwart.
The yankees can’t just go out and spend money willy nilly on good players. Who do you think they are? The Marlins?
/MMY’d*
*Mid Market yankees
If I’m gonna spend $110M I’d rather give the money to Prince Fielder and trade Montero for Pineda. Pineda, Prince >> Darvish, Montero
How would you get Prince Fielder to sign a 110MM contract? Unless it’s for 3 years. I doubt he would sign 4/110.
Yeah I agree. But to me Prince at 6 years/$140M + Pineda >> Darvish @ $110M + Montero.
And for the record Montero + Cole Hamels for 6/$140 >> Pineda + Prince for 6/$140.
What about Pineda and Hamels?
I thought you hated the Montero trade.
I do hate the trade. I was saying it in response to Vin’s post about signing Darvish and keeping Montero. I was saying that for similar I’d prefer Pineda+Fielder to Yu+Montero.
There’s this spry youngster named Kuroda about to take New York by storm.
He doesn’t have Pineda’s experience because he was busy dominating NPB for the last 5 years.
If you can think of a reason not to like him that is performance based, fine, but the argument you presented is akin to discounting Josh Gibson’s career because he never played in the majors.
Carl Crawford having wrist surgery. I would never wish harm on anyone, but BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....?track=rss
Vmart down for the year with an ACL. Brutal for the tigers
The Yankees have been exceptionally lucky with injury concerns the past few years, especially in the rotation. Let’s hope that continues. I have a feeling A-Rod will miss half the season and announce he’s decided to inject himself with tiger blood daily.
He’s already tried that. This time it would earn him a 50 game suspension.
http://tigerblood.com/testblood-propionate.html
I always had a soft spot for Vmart. He always looked like he wanted to be ON the Yankees instead of playing against them.
That was the entire dugout except for Youk Pedroia and Beckett you were seeing.. But I digress.
Jack Curry on Yes just said the Yankees don’t force the young guys to holes on the major league team.Must be Joba and Hughes don’t count.
He is truly a YES man.
And he said they will give JoVa a look at dh and keep all 7 starters. There is no real reporting, they know what we know. With all the technology ie twitter, they offer nothing
its been 5 years, and they had no pitching depth then. Most people now complain that they coddle their prospects too much.
the biggest issue that i have with the Yankees is that they need to stop this starting to the BP back and forth .Pitchers need time to build up Ip .when you go from 80 IP to 180 90% of pitchers will struggle the next year.
Well lets hope Curry was just giving his opinion and not echoing the thoughts of the FO when he said Hughes looks the one that will end up in the pen when they break camp.
And that’s why they’ve refused to call up Betances and Banuelos before they have the innings built up. They are both being coasted along in a similar manner to how Nova was developed, and how Warren and Phelps have been. They learned from the Hughes and Joba debacle’s when it comes to young pitchers
This is the way to go…. they each threw about 130innings last year let them build that up to 150-160 in AA while focusing on developing their secondary pitches and let them compete for a spot next year if they merit a shot. Then they can throw 190 innings which is pretty much a full year for a first year starter.
Kuroda’s likely gone, Freddy’s gone, Aj might be dumpable with just one year on the contract so there will be at least one, possibly 2 spots in the rotation… winner gets the job, loser is the 6th starter stashed in AAA.
Hopefully they don’t do the end of the season bullpen crap…. I don’t think it’s necessarily the physical impact on the arm, it is getting used to throwing only 2 pitches, having to get each batter out just once (not multiple times) and thinking if you put up 0 runs it’s a successful inning even if you had to throw 20-30 pitches.
they had no pitching depth then.
—————
Whose fault was that?
Cashman’s fault .Jaret Wright,Kevin Brown,Javy V ,Kyle Fransworth if he doesn’t bring these guy’s in there is no reason to rush these guys.I an sick of all the Cashman love.He has only developed 3 useful players during his tenure as GM.
He’s only had total control of the team since 2005, until he then he was at the whim of The Boss (RIP), and his shiny toy syndrome.
and do you mean 3 useful players that are still on the Yankees or in the MLB in general?
Because there are a lot more than 3 former yankee prospects in the MLB being productive
I’m curious to hear who these 3 useful players are…
Robertson,CMW,Cano
What about Gardner, Joba, Nova, IPK, Melancon, Soriano, Nick Johnson, etc?
Not to mention young guys like Montero, or traded guys like Arodys, or up-and-down guys like Hughes and Melky. “Useful” can mean Juan Rivera.
You’re right to a degree though… the Yankees didn’t focus on player development for awhile because they had a relatively successful formula of having great core players, expensive free agents and veterans looking for one last shot at a ring.
You forgot Jackson, and Tabata
Russ Ohlendorff anyone? Clippard? Aceves counts as much as Wang does… So should Jose Contreras then too.
O and Shelly Duncan has proven himself useful, in a Cleveland Indians sorta way.
Apparently “useful” means “All-Star while a Yankee.”
Oh and you’ve forgotten all the good trades/signings such as
Kerry Wood
Nick Swisher
Lance Berkman
Garcia
Colon
Andruw Jones
Marcus Thames
just to name a few
Lance Berkman was a good trade?
/minor quibble’d
He was probably their third most productive hitter behind Cano and Granderson is the ’10 playoffs.
But we traded the Red Sox closer for him!
You mean their primary set up guy (and even thats assuming Bard sticks in the bullpen).
But I agree. I’m dissapointed in way Melancon’s transition to the majors was handled was. I felt so at the time, and feel even more confidently about it now that he is a relative success.
Berkman was a positive addition, but I really don’t see that trade as a big win. They sold when his value was the lowest.
that’s a poor defense
Swisher was a great deal that any of us would have made
Wood looked good for 2 months then signed for peanuts with chicago the following year
Berkman looked like he was heading to the glue factory in NY then bats cleanup for the WC Cards
Garcia and Colon were lucky shots in the dark 50/50 with Millwood, Prior
Andruw Jones and Marcus Thames are 4th outfielders
So, really it’s Swisher and Granderson (solid and fair for all 3 teams)
And 28 other GM’s didn’t make. Guess Cashman was just lucky.
Him signing cheap after playing with the Yankees is a total red hearing if you’re arguing Cashman made a good or bad trade.
He hit pretty well in the post season, which is what the Yankees traded him for.
Lucky? Yes. Shots in the Dark? No. Yankees scouted them and knew they had some upside. What other teams had that much luck on the scrap heap?
Actually, Cashman had a hand in creating the whole team, the one that had the best record in the American League last year.
And you can argue that many of the bad signings were due to bad luck because they were productive prior to the deal and after leaving the yankees. If a deal works its good if it doesn’t its bad, whether or not you deem it lucky or unlucky is not the point
Sorry… Bo doesn’t know shit.
Shouldn’t you be yelling at kids to stay off your lawn or something, old man?
Do you comment on anything else, or is this just “Yanks bad pitching Cashman suck” all the time?
i am just sick of this blind faith in this team.By the way Cashman is not that good of a GM.There are 10-15 GM’s that I would rather have running this team.
Go ahead, name them.
1. Ben Cherington
2. Ben Cherington
3. Ben Cherington
4. Ben Cherington
5. Ben Cherington
6. Ben Cherington
7. Ben Cherington
8. Ben Cherington
9. Ben Cherington
10. Ben Cherington
11. Ben Cherington
12. Ben Cherington
13. Ben Cherington
14. Ben Cherington
15. Ben Cherington
16. Peter Gammons
17. Jose Iglecias
lmao
I believe Theo still ranks number 1.
who?
Ha.
And bear in mind they’re going to be the Yankees GM. Not the GM of the Rays making moves for the Yankees.
Daniels
Friedman
Sabean
Towers
Schuerholz
Dombrowski
Daniels
Amaro
Epstein
Byrnes
Beane
Jocketty
There may be 10 that if they were available free agents, you may fire Cash
and Anthopoulos
Oh oh oh and Moreno and Alderman and Wade Phillips and Gary Bettman too!
And the one that was fucking fat chicks when he was running the Mets. Gimme that guy too!!!!!
Dude, the haterade is making me sick
Daniels is so good he got picked twice. Also Sabean might be one of the worst GMs in the game. I disgree with everyone of these except for Friedman. I would also like Alex Anthopoulos.
Brian Sabean? Really? What in his track record would you want that he does well?
And didn’t Cashman out Epstein Epstein the last 5 years or so?
He did help draft/sign Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, and Mo. Also he’s a terrible GM.
Robert said 10-15 GM’s better than Cashman. I listed 13 in no particular order. Some old school types some of the new breed genius types. Billy Beane may drive you crazy, especially in NY but I wonder what he could do with $187-210 million. Same goes for some of the other guys. Amaro is super aggressive.
But also, assume you got to interview these guys for position, this is a talented and/or experienced group.
CJ:
Thanks for responding to my question.
Did you really just say you would rather have Brian Sabean over Cashman???
Dude, look at all those arms he developed! A whole three starters and only two were top ten draft picks!
And I mean that offense, it’s world class.
CJ loves him some Sabean style veteran presents apparently. Aubrey Huff for DH!
I listed 13 guys to be considered over Cashman. These GM’s haven’t had 200 million payroll.
Theo is underrated? C’mon it’s easier to say now that he’s in Chicago but he did the impossible. If Cubs win a championship under him, he will be the best of all time (choking, but true)
Aubrey Huff won SF a championship.
Sabean, Amaro, Byrnes and Jocketty have made plenty of boneheaded moves, so…not a chance.
You said Daniels twice. I also don’t think he, Towers or Dombrowski really have better track records.
Schuerholz has been retired a few years.
Theo is overrated. He’s made good trades, but almost all of his free agent signings have been disastrous.
Friedman and Beane would be the only two I might consider.
I would take Anthopoulos, Daniels, Epstein, Friedman, Beane for sure. So that’s 5, another 7 names to consider.
Also, it will be interesting to see Cashman perform for another team (at some point it’s inevitable) with a small budget. I’m not sure he’d know what to do. Like a spoiled filthy rich kid getting a job as a waiter.
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
This has to be fake
and ned colletti
Just when I thought it couldn’t get better, you surprise us all, and finish with the coup d’etat – Ned-freaking-Colletti.
Now I just know you’re trolling.
Epstein, Amaro, Friedman, Bill Polian, Jerry Reese, Jerry West, Ted Thompson, Gil Brandt, Red Auerbach and Pat Riley.
There’s your 10.
To be fair, Cashman has $200 to spend.
See what Cashman can do with two-hundred bucks.
he’s trying to sign a DH for 200 bucks
By gawd, that’s Homer Bush’s music they’re playing!
that’s a great advantage, but it can be somewhat of a curse at times as well. Without that, probably no Soriano, no paying ARod 20-30M/year into his 40′s, no aging SS for 17M, no 7th starter for 16.5M
It’s difficult to compare Cash to other GM’s because the economics/expectations are so different
good point. It would be really interesting to see what a GM who learned the ropes on a tight budget (Beane) and had to be creative and innovative, could apply those skills to a $200 million payroll
Theo Epstein gets far too much credit for 04. Dan Duquette put together much of the 04 team before he was fired and the Sox getting Curt Schilling had more to do with the Diamondbacks owner wanting to stick it to George than anything Theo said or did.
Actually, history has shown us that BALCO put together most of the 2004 Red Sox… But I digress…
“that’s a great advantage, but it can be somewhat of a curse at times as well. Without that, probably no Soriano, no paying ARod 20-30M/year into his 40?s, no aging SS for 17M, no 7th starter for 16.5M
It’s difficult to compare Cash to other GM’s because the economics/expectations are so different”
You do realize that Cashman is only truly responsible for one of those deals right(Burnett) The other three were Ownership/Randy Levine driven deals. Cashman lobbied against Soriano and giving AROD more that he was already owed, and ownership stepped in to add money and a player option for Jeter’s deal.
You confuse “support” with “blind faith.” We may not be happy with everything they do but, at the end of the day, we will root for the 25 men they put out on that field. What other choice is there?
Well, maybe for you there might be…
Before 2005 or 2006, Cashman didn’t have final say on most of the non-MLB decisions. And was often overruled on even the MLB decisions. Once he was able to assume full control over the baseball operations (or almost full control as Soriano proved), the farm system suddenly rebounded and began to supply talent. It takes time for a farm system to develop – and you can see the fruits of that work now. It just wasn’t ready by 2007/2008.
Regarding the arbitration numbers, assuming they arrive about the midpoint between ask and offer, than the Yanks have a payroll between $210-211MM. The Soriano contract (not to mention Burnett’s) make the situation much worse than it should be.
I remember watching the Pedro incident. Good thing he tipped his cap and called the Yankees his daddy
FYI, the Rangers are on Versus/NBC sports, so those of us with time warner can actually watch them tonight!
You know, with how well the Rangers have been playing since October, and hearing of how bad the Knicks are since Christmas Day (I have not watched a single NBA game since their season started), right now the Rangers seem much more deserving of being on MSG over the Knicks on nights when both are playing. You could say this if you (and Axisa) still had MSG and MSG+. Would you?
I absolutely think the Rangers should be shown over the Knicks if for nothing else other than the fact that the Rangers play hard (and win) whereas the Knicks seem to be completely out of sync when the play. Unfortunately, the Rangers will never get the same respect as the Knicks
Is Darvish worth 23 million a year though? In the end, it would cost 115 million over 5 years, which is a bit extreme.
Sorry, that was meant as a reply to Vin.
It is definitely a bit extreme for a guy who’s never pitched in the majors. But if you think of the opportunity cost of acquiring Darvish versus not getting him.
In my post, I wondered if it made more sense to keep Montero and sign Darvish. So it’s 115 mil plus maybe 32 mil for 5 and 6 years of Darvish AND Montero respectively. This obviously ignores the luxury tax and the fact that the posting fee is paid up front, rather than over time. It also ignores Campos and Noesi.
Instead, they chose to fill the void in the rotation by dealing Montero, which now puts them down a hitter (and a good one at that). This was definitely the cheaper route, unless they go crazy and sign Fielder. Perhaps it leaves them in a better financial position to go after Hamels next year, and that’s why they did it.
I don’t really have a definitive opinion on it yet, because I don’t really know just how serious they are about remaining under 190 mil in 2014. If they’re serious about meeting that number AND signing a premier starter next year, then they couldn’t also get Darvish.
SS in the system (Prospects only)
MLB
Jeter
Nunez
AAA
Jose Pirela
AA
Non-Prospect (Walt Ibarra?)
A+
Non-Prospect Jose Mojica? (Carmen Angelini?)
A
Cito Culver
A-
Claudio Custodio
A bit of a weak position for the Yankees. It is weak for most teams, though. Culver doesn’t wow me and Custodio was old for the level. The only positives in the system are far away. Nunez is still young though, so they don’t have nothing.
Please tell me where I goofed (as always.)
forgetting to label them all as “Non-Prospect”
Pirela isn’t great, but SS numbers across all levels of minors and majors aren’t great. He’s 22 going into AAA and has spend a year at each level. He’s not a great prospect, but he’s not nothing.
Culver isn’t great either, but he’s certainly a prospect. Custodio raked last year but he was old. If he sucks this year, it was probably an age based advantage or statistical blip. I’m comfortable calling him a prospect until he shows he isn’t.
We’ll have a better idea of Culver’s hitting abilities now that he’s slated to start in a full-season league (low-A). Can’t. Wait. Really rooting for this kid (though i utterly hated the selection a couple years ago).
True. All 3 of the SS “prospects” we have could quickly become non-prospects with a shitty season. Culver would probably keep his luster with a down year, but I doubt Custodio or Pirela (as marginal a prospect as he is) would.
Bright side, no way both Texas can afford Elvis Andrus in a few seasons, so we got that abortion to look forward to.
You forget that Cashman is the worst GM in the history of baseball, thus every minor leaguer is a non-prospect.
from Tampa-Scranton, how many position players have a chance to become major league starters? Austin Romine.
Sanchez, Williams, Bichette, Murphy, Austin look promising but are so far off
On those teams last year?
Not many. Austin Romine, Brandon Laird, Jose Pirela, Corban Joseph, Dave Adams, Zoilo Almonte, Melky Mesa, Rob Lyerly, Cody Johnson, Slade Heathcott, JR Murphy, and Rob Segedin are the names I came up with.
MLB starter is a high bar, especially position players on the Yankees. Nunez would have been a starter on half the teams in the majors. So would Montero.
developing a big league starter is the highest bar but it is also the objective
Brandon Laird, Jose Pirela, Corban Joseph, Dave Adams, Zoilo Almonte, Melky Mesa, Rob Lyerly, Cody Johnson, Slade Heathcott, JR Murphy, and Rob Segedin
I don’t think any of them will be big league starters for any team
I like Romine and Nunez more than most and I think both could be starters, Montero – of course
Given any minor league name, I would say they won’t be major league starters. Some of them do though. That’s what’s so cool (and frustrating) about minor league baseball.
If presented with every name I listed, I would say each of them would not become a major league starter. Some of them will though.
You wanted which players from A+ or up had a chance to become a starter. They all have a chance. I would bet someone in their system I didn’t list eventually becomes a ML starter, too.
possibly CoJo, Adams, maybe Mesa (unlikely)
but yeah, the upper levels are pretty thin
Custodio is just there to serve as the mop-up man.
It took me an hour to get that.
Jeets wants 4K hits and he will play SS until that 10th grader is ready!
No worries.
I can’t imagine baseball without Don Zimmer somewhere.
My favorite memory of Zimm was when Joe Torre had on a mic in the dugout and was doing an interview with the booth and Zimm walked by and said something like “hey, we’ve got a game to win here”.
I want to say it was something less serious like an All-Star game, though I’m not sure.
Happy 70th birthday to Muhammad Ali
Manning a new handle? Nice. Giants gave me some comfort after a rough Montero weekend but, in the end, no matter what…..
baseball>>>>>>>>>>>>football
Maybe in the Bizarro world but as great as baseball is, Football is KING!
How can you be on this site 365 days a year (slight exaggeration for that 3 day stay in the ICU) and not feel baseball>>>>football?
Because there is no football site even close to RAB.
Meh. For me Baseball >> Football
Baseball is ten times better than football. People who try to tell you that football is America’s game are wrong.
In terms of popularity, surely football has exceeded baseball in this country. Football number 1, baseball 2, hoops a distant third, and hot on the NBA’s heels is hockey, despite the fact that hockey is hard to appreciate on TV.
We are a nation of morons and hooligans with short attention spans and alcohol-infested tailgates. I’ve been to a few Raider games….
Football has its place but…only once a week.
Baseball >>>> Football >>>> Hockey >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NBA
What’s football?
assholes call it soccer….
-Rafi bombed
In what world?
For me it’s:
Baseball>>>>>Basketball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Football.
Hockey died a long time ago.
He’s kind of a piece of shit, if you really look into it.
I’m not even talking about the not serving stuff, either.
Lol I forgot opinion = fact.
I’m really impressed with how “stealth” the Yankees have been able to be. It creates good leverage for them. Think of Boras with Ejax, Jack Z with Pineda , Kuroda’s agent.. They all had to feel like at any second the Yankees could pull the trigger on literally anything and be left out in the cold. They had no feel for which way the Yankees were leaning. A month ago Yu Darvish, CJ Wilson, Mark Buhrle, Gio Gonzalez and Edwin Jackson were really possibilities for the Yanks. The Yanks deserve credit for this.
Check out this clip of Pineda. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......8;c_id=mlb
At the 18 second marker there’s a shot of a Pineda fastball from the camera behind the plate. It really gives you a feel for what it’s like to try and turn around his heater. Watch it and imagine yourself as the hitter. It’s amazing how “quick to the ball” you have to be.
Jesus who?
This Penada trade still fucks my mind. All sore from thinking about it. Well, time to preaach to da choir
Montero and Noesi for Matt Moore and a Rays top 5 pitching prospect (or whatever Campos was in Seattle)
Do you do it?
I’d do that even without the extra prospect.
Yes.
Any day of the week.
Moore >>>>> Pineda
I’m not sure I agree with you guys. I know Moore’s ceiling is higher than Pineda’s but there’s more certainty with Pineda. Moore could be a league average pitcher for couple of years before he puts it all together (not likely but possible).
Perhaps the Moore and Pineda divide isn’t as wide as “>>>>>” , but the bottomline is that Moore’s #1 ceiling makes him a better prospect than Montero. Cashman does that trade 10 times out of 10.
However, Friedman doesnt do that trade 10 times out of 10.
The fact that they’re basically the same age, but Pineda has a full season of success at the major league level would basically balance out the difference in ceiling.
I would have. Yes.
Matt Moore yes. I guess hellickson too. Pineda or Hellickson?
Happy Birthday, Zim! You know, if memory serves, Randolph took Zim’s place in 2004 & the rest is history. Torre never seemed to be as much in the game after Zim left, and we know what happened…just saying
Anyone know what Prince Fielder’s WAR would’ve been as a full time DH last year? Is there a way to calculate that?
In roman numerals, it would be NOYANKEE.
for a rough approximation using fWAR, Prince’s 5.5 fWAR, equated to 51.8 RAR, broken down as: 51.5 runs batting, -5.4 runs baserunning, -5.1 runs fielding, 23.1 runs replacement level adjustment, and -12.3 runs position. At DH, the batting, baserunning, and replacement level would remain the same (assuming the same playing time), the fielding would go to an even 0, and the positional would drop slightly (rough guess, it would fall to about -16, given that David Ortiz was -14.8 in slightly less playing time. So his RAR would be about 53.2 (51.5 batting, less 5.4 runs baserunning, plus 23.1 runs replacement, less 16 runs position). So his WAR would have been slightly higher, maybe about 5.7.
It’s a 5 run difference between DH (-17.5runs) and 1B (-12.5) for 162 games.
thanks, I just found that before your post. That makes the calculation much easier.
Though its impossible to DH 162 games in a season, but I guess being forced to play 1B in interleague games, the negative defense would still be negated by the positional adjustment, so it would still come out even.
Ahh…. good point.
Of course both of us have way too much time on our hands figuring out the last 0.1-0.2 WAR when the stat is nowhere near that accurate to begin with.
lol … very true
Just trying to pass the time until opening day.
If you got to Fangraphs you can take his total WAR, subtract out the positional adjustment difference between DH and 1st (5 runs, so subtract off ~0.5 WAR) and then subtract out the fielding value. If you believe UZR he’s roughly a ~-6 run fielder over his career (-5 last year) so that actually pretty much offsets the positional loss shifting from 1B to DH.
So basically his WAR would be approximately the same as he is a below average fielder which pretty much offsets the positional gain he gets for playing 1st over DH.
Thanks guys. Great stuff.
Just a thought, if the Yankees had let CC walk and didn’t sign Kuroda, The Yankees would have been able to get under the luxury threshold this year. Would that be preferable to anyone than 2014?
NO!
Pineda
Nova
Hughes
Garcia
Burnett
Plus the AAA guys. Plus they would be untethered next offseason.
This plan sucks and the 2014 plan sucks, but I don’t think this one sucks significantly more.
MAYBE!
I guess it would have been cool because they wouldn’t have been investing in a big fat ticking time bomb.
It would be pretty close even with those cuts the thrsehold is 178mil (I think) this year. the 189mil is a new threshold that starts in 2014. I’m not sure it’s a given they would get there even with those 2 guys gone.
Depending on arbitration raises cutting CC and Kuroda (~33mil) and replacing them with 2 min salary guys (0.96mil) would be right around that level. Also you have a DH to find, which is at least a league min guy (0.48mil). So it would also probably mean another small cut somewhere along the way (jones, Garcia)
Also not too excited about having the same rotation they had last week except with Pineda instead of CC (Pineda, Nova, Garcia, Hughes, AJ)
Yeah, I had a whole thing about trading one of Hughes or Burnett to save a few million and starting a mill of AAA guys, but it seemed unnecessarily long.
There are a lot of small moves they could have made to get under the threshold if they didn’t have CC or Kuroda.
yeah, quick rough calculation, I have them about 183-184 (luxury tax payroll) now without CC and Kuroda. It would put them within reach if they really wanted to do it, but I think this would be a rough season.
At least it would be one year only. Quick like a band-aid.
No. Then you’d really be banking on either Pineda quickly developing into an ace, or being able to acquire an ace in the near future. Neither is a sure thing.
Also, they won’t save as much money this season. Luxury tax rate is 42.5% this season vs. 50% starting 2013. And the revenue sharing large market disqualification rebates don’t start until 2013, and are phased in (big market teams receiving revenue sharing would lose 25% in 2013, 50% in 2014, 75% in 2015, and 100% in 2016).
So they’d lose an ace they may not be able to replace, and wouldn’t receive as large a financial benefit.
Where did you get those percentages?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....labor-deal
Thanks.
Re: revenue sharing refund
The only team I could see getting a refund from is Washington. The only one I’m not sure about is Toronto. I would imagine they either do not receive revenue sharing, or are close enough to the median that the amount is trivial.
I don’t think the austerity plan makes sense to do in any year, but I don’t see getting the refund from Washington or not to be a significant enough barrier to do it in 2014 and not 2012.
Looking at this, it reaffirms my original thought that there is no way the Yankees are really going to slash payroll just to save a few million in revenue sharing to Washington and around 15MM in luxury tax.
Oakland’s lucky to get that exemption. They would be royally screwed without it.
Nope. It would mean sucking until 2015 rather than remaining competetive during the attempt at a gradual decline in payroll. Just my opinion though.
Carlos Pena called to say the 2014 plan has repercussions in 2012 and 2013 as well.
Well, I’m older than you, so I remember Zimmer in Boston with the Sox when I was in college up there and sat in the Fenway stands for dozens of games (student ticket – $1.50 – free entrance after 7th) and watched old Zim manage the local lads to 163 games, and most of all remember being in the right field stands for Bucky’s immortal pop-up to left. It was the only time in my life I cheered at a funeral,
a deal cash couldn’t refuse, but the sweet swing of jesus has me wishing it were someone else going for the big righthander; i see montero with as much chance to be miggy two as i do pineda to be sabathia two…hoping campos is sweet dessert