Open Thread: What?!?

Report: Yankees show interest in Raul Ibanez
Kuroda speaks for first time since joining Yankees

With all due respect to the people who put this photo gallery/slideshow together, there is absolutely no chance that David Robertson‘s bases loaded, no outs escape act in the 11th inning of Game Two of the 2009 ALDS is the FOURTH most clutch moment in team history. No chance. None. Nada. I’m not even sure that would make the top forty clutch moments in team history, and hell, that wasn’t even the most clutch moment of the game. That would be Alex Rodriguez‘s game-tying, two-run homer off Joe Nathan in bottom of the ninth.

Sorry, I just caught that thing being passed around Twitter this afternoon and it blew my mind. We all love Robertson, but that’s nuts. Here is your open thread for the night. The Knicks and Nets are both playing tonight, but talk about whatever you like here. Enjoy.

Report: Yankees show interest in Raul Ibanez
Kuroda speaks for first time since joining Yankees
  • Rebecca

    Fourth? Probably not.

    But 40? Could be. That was a pretty freaking important inning.

  • Mike R.

    Not to mention how lucky Robertson was to not give up a run.

    Was that the inning with the bad no-double call?

    Oh well, it was still pretty important.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      It was badass. I’ll never forget it, regardless of where it should be ranked.

      • Preston

        I don’t know why we have to make it a Robertson moment. It was definitely a team defense moment.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I don’t know why you’d exactly give that much of a shit.

    • pat

      The bad double was a non factor anyway. If Mayer hits a 2b there’s no way they don’t ibb kubel with the empty base. Would have ended up with the same situation.

  • Mike HC

    Jon Barry hosting, with Chris Broussard, Magic and Wilbon, as the studio guys for NBA on ESPN.

    Are they actively trying to put together the worst, most boring foursome possible?

    • Rainbow Connection

      Not enough guffawing shucking and jiving idiot former athletes for you?
      I bet you love TNT, right?
      Do you love Terry Bradshaw and Shannon Sharpe laughing at their own shitty jokes on Sunday mornings, too?

      • Craig Maduro

        Well CBS and FOX trail behind ESPN on pre-game shows anyway, but TNT’s studio team on Thursdays is hilarious. Let me guess though. Lou Holtz and Billy Packer rank as your top two sports voices/personalities.

        There are definitely some annoying idiots out there – Skip Bayless for example – but what’s the deal with getting worked up over pre/post-game and halftime teams?

        As far as MikeHC…I guess I can see Jon Barry and Magic being a little bland, but Wilbon is always solid at worst and Broussard is the NBA’s answer to Shefter/Mortenson and Olney/Kurkjian. That’s gotta count for something, right?

      • Mike HC

        TNT has by far the best studio show. I like to be entertained.

        And as for Craig, I see what you are saying about Broussard and Wilbon, and its not really their fault, but I guess I don’t like reporters on those shows. personally. I’m more a fan of “guffawing shucking and jiving idiot former athletes.”

        • Craig Maduro

          Haha…sometimes the TNT halftime show is better than the game.

  • John

    No Chambliss, really?

    • Bryan G

      Was just thinking this. His HR only sent them to the WS. Not a big deal.

  • Robert

    A possible name for DH Russ Canzler,AAA MVP last year,Only 25.

  • ThrillHouseMD

    Gordon: The 3-1.. and a high drive… Oh my… Way back and..
    Gladden: He got him.
    Gordon: ..tie game.
    Gladden: He got him John, he got him!


    • Jorell

      Oh, I love the despair in their voices SO SO MUCH.

      And I really think Robertson should be referred to as “David Houdini” much more from now on. Don’t know why that never caught on.

  • TomH

    Is this really offered as a “team history” list? The Yankees’ world series experiences began in the 1920s, and this is all they could come up with?

    If so, it’s another example of how seriously challenged, historically, people can be. Recall the omission of Stan Musial from that “all time” team some years ago, when Selig et al had to intervene.

    There are so many other of these dopey lists and polls. I recall one for “greatest all time” college teams, that seemed to get no further back than the early 1970s. None of those devastating post-war Notre Dame teams of Leahy’s made the cut.

    What matters in these things is the average age of the compilers (of lists) or the average age of the voters (for polls). Imagine (it’s really easy) a “Greatest Albums of All Time” list with no Sinatra, no Ella, no Miles Davis, no Armstrong, et al. You could then calculate the average age to be some sort of baby-boomer-or-after generation. (Hell, I’ll bet the damned poll exists!)

    • Steve S.

      Tommy Henrich was nicknamed ‘Old Reliable’ for a reason.

  • Kevin

    There’s no way it’s even more clutch than Chris Chambliss’ pennant-winning walkoff homer.

    Also, Jeter’s catch against the Sox diving into the stands was amazing and one of my favorite Derek moments ever. But, Paul O’Neill’s AB/BB in Game 1 of the 2000 World Series is also more clutch. It set the tone for the win and the rest of the series.

    • Monterowasdinero

      Ok-it was great. Big pressure/clutch etc etc. But really-when the ball was caught, how far was Jeter from the stands?

    • Plank

      Do you mean the time Jeter caught the ball on the grass, then ran across the warning track, then dove into the stands?

      • radnom

        Please don’t tell me you watch that video and think that he could have made that catch and avoided diving into the stands. I mean, he could have slid into the wall, but that would have been much worse.

      • Craig Maduro

        Yea, when you say “caught the ball on the grass”…he only has one foot on the grass once he catches the ball and he is moving full speed. I’m with random on this one. To look at it from a different POV, he wouldn’t even be in bounds if this play was made during a football game (assuming the warning track is out of bounds).

        • Plank

          It was a good catch. I just read what I wrote and I guess it was too harsh. It wasn’t a historically great catch or anything. It wasn’t even the best catch of a popup in that area of the field by a shortstop in that game.

          That play happened at the height of dinosaur vs. statisticians and that play and The Flip (TM) were used as counterexamples of Jeter’s horrible D during that era.

          Regarding your comment, faster SSs could have gotten there quicker so they wouldn’t have to be running full speed by the time they got to the landing spot. From that video, I can’t tell if others could have gotten there, but I think other players would have made that play seem more routine.

          • Monterowasdinero

            It was a good catch. I’m sure not one other team’s fan base or announcers would have dramatized it the way Yankee fans and announcers did. if Nomar makes that catch…..

            This is never a good place to be rational when it comes to Jeterian lore….

            • RetroRob

              Oh I don’t know about that. Ever listen to MLB Networks highlight replays through the season where they use the home-team announcers? Let’s just say you should be thankful for the guys we have on YES. Michael Kay even seems slightly sedated compared to some of the others.

              • Monterowasdinero

                I meant that other teams would not think Jeter’s catch was that great.

          • Craig Maduro

            I can see what you’re saying. Even a highlight play like that should not be someone’s argument that he’s a good fielder. Isn’t Jeter pretty fast though? He’s no Jose Reyes, but he’s not exactly Jeff Blauser* either.

            *I can’t actually remember if Blauser was fast, but shit, when was the last time anybody ever mentioned Jeff Blauser?

            • Plank

              Wow, a Jeff Blauser reference. I didn’t see that coming.

              His 65 SB speak to his running prowess (Ignore the 41 CS)

          • RetroRob

            That was a fine catch. He scored bonus points from players because he was willing to give up his body on the play, where other players (I won’t say all) would have pulled up in fear of injury.

            Saying faster SS’s would have made the play is an assumption. It’s possible, but we don’t really know because the ball wasn’t hit that high up, so even a faster SS would have been running at full speed, and your assumption is he’d be standing there waiting to catch the so him momentum wouldn’t pull him into the stands. Hightly questionable.

            Jeter’s greatest weakness has always been on groundballs to his left. His crossover step has never been great. He generally rates better to his right, and rates highly on balls in the air, which is one reason people thought he’d be on OFer.

            Anyway, not trying to be a pain here, but that was a fine play, no need for Yankees fans to try and minimize it (plenty of Red Sox fans around for that!) since it was excellent. Clutch? Nah. Fine play, Yes!

            • Plank

              I’ve heard that he’s much better to his right and is good at catching popups for 10 years. You say he’s rated better, do you have anything to back that up other than 10 years of dinosaur columnists saying that while complaining about nerds in their parent’s basement? I doubt it.

              He was consistently rated among the worst SS during that time by ever metric and nothing I saw watching the games gave me reason to think it wasn’t accurate. Saying a SS is good at catching popups is grasping at straws.

              Can’t turn left? Who is he, Derek Zoolander?

              • RetroRob

                Hmmm, you seemed to have grasped on to Jeter’s dive into the stands, as well as his flip play against Oakland as the focal points of dinosaur columnists vs. new-age stat guys, since that’s popped up in two of your responses. To use your words, do you have anything to back that up? Or is that just your belief?

                Just because a player is not a great fielder, does not mean that player also doesn’t make great plays. It’s the aggregate. Do I have a spreadsheet that will show it was a great play? No. Do you have a spredsheet that shows that it wasn’t a great play? No. And I won’t ask you to produce it because it doesn’t exist!

                What we have here are just opinions. I say Jeter’s dive was a fine play. You say less so, offering the opinion that a faster SS would have caught it without diving into the stands. Okay, fine. I questioned that, although certainly not insultingly.

                Other than that, I have no interest in what seems to be a strawman you’re trying to build, intentionally or not. Certainly not when it comes to Jeter’s defense, which is not what this discussion was about.

                For the record, I’ve been part of the sabermetric crowd since 1980 longer than many posters on this board. I say that because I find many people seem to think it all started in the last few years, or that before MoneyBall it never existed. Nope, it did. I know, I’m part of the Bill James, Rob Neyer, Pete Plamer generation. Before WAR there was TPR and many others. I’ve seen more new theories disappear than exist today, and each one was defended as if it was gospel. I love all this stuff, study it nonstop, have for a generation, but I understand more than ever the weaknesses as well as the strengths. Yet because of that, you’ll never find me defending Derek Jeter’s defense! Yet you will find me defending why the Yankees were correct in leaving Derek Jeter at SS at these years and not moving him to the OF.

                But anyway, it was a fine play!

                • BigDavey88


                • Plank

                  I wasn’t trying to insult you. Sorry if it came off that way.

                  You stated quite surely that Jeter was highly rated going to his right and going back for popups. I don’t see it when I watch him play, and especially didn’t back in that era. I was asking if you had anything to show it was true that he was superior in going either right or back. I wasn’t asking for “a spreadsheet that will show it was a great play.” Who is making the strawman? You should know better since you have studied this stuff non-stop for a generation.

                  My previous post said I thought it was a good play, that other players could have made the play too, and some could probably have done it without diving into the stands, but I’m not sure about that last part.

                  Sorry if that’s not enough for you.

          • NDR

            While Jeter’s range on grounders is limited, fielding pop-ups is a different skill – one that he seems to do very well. So I am not sure your assertion that another player makes that play easier is true.

      • Guns of Navarone

        Regardless of where he caught it, he was running full speed and had two steps, maybe two-and-a-half, before he hit the stands. He had no time to react and slow down. It’s an amazing play.

  • Dan

    I was at that game… wow. The most exciting game I have ever been to and it isn’t even close. It is not a top 5 Yankee moment for Robertson to throw out of that jam, but still great. Wast sitting right next to the Yankees’ bullpen and as soon as A-Rod hit that ball I almost jumped on my brothers shoulders. I don’t think I have ever yelled so loud at a game.
    Just AWESOME

  • Rey22

    Damn I miss that version of Alex Rodriguez.

    • Preston

      When he’s truly healthy that’s still who he is.

  • Pinstripes in Cali
  • CJ

    Of all the available aging veteran dh candidates, I’m pushing for Vlad Guerrero. Of Damon, Matsui, Ibanez, Vlad has the best chance of improving in 2012 over 2011. 2010 in Texas he was a beast. In NY he stands a chance of being pumped up playing for a winner in a stacked lineup. Much more motivating than Baltimore. Vlad was born to hit.

    • nsalem

      ‘Vlad has the best chance of improving in 2012 over 2011″ What are you basing this statement on. It seems like a subjective opinion to me. Contrary to what you saying I believe Vlad has the worse chance of improving, because aging sluggers frequently retain their ability to have a high OBP which is a skill Vlad never had. Vlad had a great half season with Texas. The second half of 2010 he hit about .260 with an .OBP around .300. His OBP over the last year and a half has been about .310. I’d rather have our own veterans occupy the DH spot and rest half a day then acquire someone as ineffective as Vlad’s been the last year and a half.

      • CJ

        I’m only comparing him to the already aging flawed veterans Damon Matsui ibanez

        • radnom

          And he still compares poorly, particularly to Damon (and Ibanez, to a lesser extent).

    • FIPster Doofus

      Vlad is toast.

  • Peter


    • CJ

      Minor league deal only. I really like connor Jackson on a minor league deal. Then teahen (minor
      League deal)

  • P

    I say we trade for denard span. Left handed, can play all of positions, young, and cash man already tried to trade for him a few years back. Hughes/Williams for span?

    • Craig Maduro

      No thanks. If the Yanks are going to deal with the Twins, I’d rather them roll the dice on Morneau.

      • Thomas Cassidy

        Morneau’s career is probably over, which is sad. I’ve always liked him, except in 2006.

      • CJ

        Has there been any real talk that Morneau is available?

        • Craig Maduro

          Not that I’ve heard.

          The way I see it though, the Yankees don’t seem to make trades that have been preceded by any “official” talk. Because of that I think we should all be able to throw out any names (within some reason) that we want.

          • CJ

            Well Morneau will not be an AJ salary swap.

            • Craig Maduro

              No, I wouldn’t anticipate that.

    • Thomas Cassidy

      No way. Span would be nice to have, but not for Hughes or Williams. Now Phelps and Murphy I’d do, but that’s the highest.

      • P

        I think you are seriously undervaluing span. The Yankees would be happy if Williams turns into span, and that’s no guarantee. As far as including Hughes, you hav to give something to get something right?

  • Craig Maduro

    So part of me can’t help treating the “Tropicana Field is tough on lefties” bit is a meme that’s been going out of control thanks to the Damon to the DH supporters. Never have I heard anything mentioning the Trop as a tough place for hitters (specifically LH) to produce. Anybody care to toss some links at me?

  • CJ

    Logan Morrison on Sirius radio on cespedes “”…you don’t need to catch balls behind your back in games, and you don’t need to jump 100 feet in the air and leg press 20,000 pounds, or whatever the heck he’s doing.” Man, he is NOT going to get along with Ozzie Guillen. Rumors are that Miami is seriously pursuing cespedes and Morrison says this? LoMo may be traded after all.

    • Thomas Cassidy

      He also said that if he can translate those skills onto the baseball field he’d like him to be there. He didn’t say anything wrong.

      • Steve S.

        In every sport there are workout warriors and great physical specimens who have no aptitude for the game. Conversely there are guys who look like they just rolled off their couch who can perform at a high level. That’s the point he was making, and its very solid.

    • Craig Maduro

      I have to agree with Cassidy…you gotta take the whole statement into consideration. Who knows though. LoMo seems like he might have a strong personality (maybe that perception is aided by media coverage) and obviously Ozzie Guillen can be a nut. I think we’d all love if LoMo became available, but probably not something to get our hopes up about.

      Btw, anybody else think the Marlins are a third place team in that division? I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see them finish fourth to be completely honest.

      • Thomas Cassidy

        Phillies, Braves, Nationals, Marlins, and Mets. That’s how I see it for 2012 right now. Reyes can’t really stay healthy, and Buerhle isn’t an ace like everyone makes him out to be. They’re definitely better than last year, but have to make some improvements. The Nationals look like they might be the best team in that division in two years, especially if they can land someone like Cain, Hamels, or Votto soon.

        • CJ

          Mets are more of a lock for last than the Phillies are for 1st.

      • Bryan V

        With the Phillies and Braves, 3rd place would be good for them. Not sure about 4th in 2012, but Washington could be really tough in a few years.

      • CJ

        I don’t know he’s gone off on ownership before about arbitration conspiracy to limit years. Uses twitter a lot too. I heard him in wfan, he’s at least a character. But he may have worn out his welcome in Miami.

  • Dave M

    I at that Robertson game, and It was AMAZING..I remember being outside the stadium after we won and I was talking to my dad on the phone and telling him how the atmosphere was. I knew the Yankees were back and we would win the WS. Its hard to decribe but we all were celebrating in such a way that we all knew we were on our way

  • Johnny

    Somebody call the front office and tell them to make preparations to hire this Joesph Votto character when he hits free agency. That kid’s alright. Cole next year, Joey in two.

    (Pretty please?)

    • RetroRob

      Where’s he gonna play? I like Votto (what’s not to like?), but there needs to be a logical opening, and Tex is not going anywhere. There’s a better chance that Tex’s replacement is somoeone like Eric Hosmer or mayber, gasp, Jesus Montero, who should be well into his career at 1B by then. : -)

    • Steve S.

      Votto will be traded before he hits FA, and the team that gives up talent will have strong incentive to extend him.

      • CTRob

        Though power seems to be moving to the AL, you gotta figure the Mets or Dodgers could be a landing spot for Votto. They should both have their ownership issues worked out, and both will want to make a splash.

  • Joe

    So the Flip is #2 which is good. But the site says that the Yankees held on to win the game 1-0 en route to a 3 game sweep. That is wrong. They were down 2-0 in that series and managed to win in 5. Shouldn’t they fact check? Something?

  • Matt J

    Where is Chris Chambliss’ 1976 pennant-capturing homer against KC in this “top” list?

  • Tim HJ

    Having looked at the list, it’s clearly ridiculous. How on earth can they put together a list of the ‘top 20’ all-time plays and have only about four of them that took place prior to 2000?

    The other point I would make is that in many cases, the incidents listed are not ‘plays’ as such but rather performances over an entire game. How to Reggie Jackson’s three home runs count as a ‘clutch play’?

    Whoever put the list together is clearly an idiot.