Prospect Profile: Jose Campos

Identifying potential (ideally left-handed-hitting) DH trade targets
Phil Hughes' Fifth Starter Case
(Photo via SeattleSportsInsider.com)

Jose Campos | RHP

Background
The cousin of former big leaguer Kelvim Escobar and current big leaguer Alcides Escobar, Campos grew up in the Venezuelan port town of La Guaira. The Cardinals tried to sign him in late-2008/early-2009, but his parents refused to sign the contract. When the Mariners stepped in and offered a slightly larger bonus — $115k — he joined Seattle in January of ’09.

Pro Career
The Mariners assigned Campos to the Venezuelan Summer League in both 2009 and 2010, where he pitched to a 4.10 ERA with 82 strikeouts and 35 walks in 90 total innings. They brought him stateside in 2011, holding him back in Extended Spring Training before shuffling him off to their short season Northwest League affiliate. The 19-year-old Campos was the best right-handed pitcher in the circuit, posting a 2.32 ERA with 85 strikeouts (9.4 K/9 and 25.7 K%) and 13 walks (1.4 BB/9 and 3.9 BB%) in 81.1 IP across 14 starts. After the season, Baseball America ranked him as the third best prospect in the league.

The Yankees officially acquired Campos and Michael Pineda from the Mariners in exchange for Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi earlier this week.

Scouting Report
Listed at 6-foot-4 and 195 lbs., Campos is all about the fastball. He routinely sits 93-95 with life on the pitch and has run it up as high as 98 in the past. His breaking ball is still trying to decide if it wants to be a slider or a curveball, and a nascent changeup rounds out his repertoire. Both offspeed offerings have flashed swing-and-missability and have a chance to develop into above-average pitches down the road. Campos is an extreme strike thrower, filling up the zone with his fastball.

Like many of the prospects the Yankees have targeted in recent years, Campos has drawn praise for his makeup and poise. The Mariners tweaked his delivery just a bit in ExST last year, allowing him to get better extension and throw with his entire body, not just his arm. Here’s some video.

2012 Outlook
After dominating a short season league last year, Campos will join what figures to be a prospect-heavy Low-A Charleston roster this coming season. He’ll start the year at 19 and won’t turn 20 until late-July.

My Take
I didn’t even know Campos existed until the trade went down, and everything I know about the kid is in this post. He’s obviously years away from the big leagues and far from perfect, but a 19-year-old with command of a heavy fastball is already a strong prospect. Add in a big projectable frame and the makings of two very good offspeed pitches, and you’ve got a special prospect. I’m interested to see him in full season ball next year, particularly in the second half when he gets up there in innings and we can get some decent reports on the breaking ball and change. Campos immediately became the Yankees’ third best pitching prospect with the trade, ahead of the MLB-ready Triple-A guys because of upside.

email
Identifying potential (ideally left-handed-hitting) DH trade targets
Phil Hughes' Fifth Starter Case
  • Gerald Williams

    Fingers crossed!

  • jsbrendog

    i’m going to say it. in my opinion, i think that Jesus Montero might be a hall of famer if he gets over his maturity issues and stays healthy.

    NOW saying that, I believe campos/pineda will out WAR him after all 3 of their careers are done.

    • JMK

      I’m gung-ho about prospects, but c’mon, Campos is 19 and hasn’t even reached full-season ball yet. Let’s hold off on assuming he contributes any WAR; he’s so far away and it’s more likely he contributes little or nothing than has a very strong career.

      • Cris Pengiucci

        It would be extremely difficult for these pitchers to out-WAR Montero if he lives up to expectations. However, I could see the 2 of them providing more value to the Yankees. So far, I like what I’m hearing.

        • jsbrendog

          exactly, the whole point of making far fetched predictions is making them be far fetched…and predicting something.

      • Alex

        would you feel better if Campos was 27 years old and had been in AA/AAA for 3 years (thus basically losing “prospect” status)? Younger is BETTER, especially when your team is loaded @ the major league level like the Yankees are. Campos being 19 and already having command of a powerhouse fastball is a major positive, especially for a complimentary piece in a deal like this.

    • Opus

      If he ends up a DH, he’ll have to outhit Edgar if he wants even a chance at Cooperstown.

      • Ted Nelson

        I have a feeling HOF voting will change pretty significantly by the time Montero would be considered (if he works out). Become a lot of quantitative. That voters will be talking about career WAR rather than counting stats, for example.

        • I Live in My Mom’s Basement

          Because HOF voters by that time will be math sophisticates who will be completely comfortable with complex formulae that don’t simply divide one easily countable thing by another.

  • Cy Pettitte

    The more I read on this kid the more I like him. Power arm with plus control at his age is awesome. Good consolation prize for giving up Noesi in the trade.

    • Rick

      Not sure it’s fair to characterize him as a consolation prize. The kid is a legit prospect that, I find it likely, Cashman bargained for in order for the trade to be completed.

      • Steve (different one)

        Right, most of what I have read see this trade as dead even value-wise (although slightly more risky for the yanks). Campos was an important piece is evening thing out. In other words Montero is probably slightly more valuable than Pineda, but Campos is more valuable than Noesi, so all together things even out. The Yankees give up the 1st and 4th best piece, and get back the second and third best, with each team filling their specific needs.

        I have no idea how it is going to work out, but it is easily one of the most fascinating trades of the last 10 years simply because salaries played almost no part. Trades like this almost never happen anymore.

        • Brian Paul

          Only “slightly more valuable” at the major league level is much more significant than “slightly more valuable” in terms of upside.

          • jsbrendog

            the difference in prospect power between noesi and campos balances out the extra year of service time montero has over pineda

      • Cy Pettitte

        didn’t mean it as he has little value, just meant it’s nice to get something legit back for Noesi being included instead of a 2 for 1. Consolation prize probably wasn’t the best phrasing.

  • ADam

    How does NW SS compare to the NY Penn League SS?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      It’s the same exact level in terms of talent and everything, just a different league in a different part of the country.

      • Howard Cosell

        What’s impressive about this kid is that he pitched this well in a cold climate. Summers in Seattle are cold. It can be 80 on one of the street and the other side with no sun feels 58 to someone from the East coast. I can’t imagine what it feels like to a Latin Player.

        Good Start….

        HC

        • Bean Tooth

          Actually, summers in the NW are awesome. Sunny and 75 pretty much every day. It’s not like a desert where temps will vary that much from sun to shade. I see no disadvantage to him pitching there at all.

        • Back in the Saddle

          The NW League plays in a variety of weather scenarios. Everett, where Jose was assigned is in the Seattle area. Seattle summers are awesome with 75-80 degree weather. The league also has three affiliates in the Inland Washington State area where summer temps are in the 90-100 degree range with low humidity. The league is also in Boise, ID. and Boise is comparable to the Inland Washington cities. The only difference with what Jose will find in New York is the summer humidity. He would feel right at home in most of the Northwest League ballparks…

      • Rick in Boston

        Isn’t the NW a better hitter’s environment than the NYP, mostly due to the elevation?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Not sure, but that would make sense. NWL hitters averaged .255/.333/.371 last year, NYPL .250/.328/.354. That’s just a one-year sample though.

        • Bean Tooth

          Looking at the teams, there aren’t really any teams at significant elevation. Half are at sea level more or less, and the rest sit around 1,000 feet. Boise is the highest at 2,700, which I don’t think is high enough to impact the flight of the ball. Cool city, though.

        • DSThom

          Half of the cities with teams are basically at or just above sea level, being west of the Cascade mountains. Yakima and Spokane, in eastern Washington, between the Cascades and the Rockies further east, are at about 1000 and 1700 ft, respectively. The Tri-Cities team, along the Columbia River east of the Cascades (not sure exactly which of which of the towns hosts the ball park) plays at 350 to 400 ft. Boise is 2700, about half the elevation of Coors Field.

          Everett is right on the Puget Sound — sea level. Pineda did have a marked home/away split.

          • Rick in Boston

            Thanks. I was actually mixing up my Northwest and Pioneer League cities.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    *Not trying to post under two screennames intentionally today. Switched work PCs and didn’t realize that I had “Jumpin Jack Swisher” still auto-entered on other PC’s. Sorry.*

    I’ve got really high hopes for this kid. I hope he makes those scorned by Arodys’s being gone feel like they’ve found a new love.

  • vin

    An interview with Jose:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    I’m really excited about him… well, as excited as you can be with a guy who will start the year in Charleston. My first thought when I heard he was in the deal was that Cashman got a do-over on dealing Arodys. Any similarities besides being righties with power fastballs? Obviously Arodys reached Charleston one year sooner, but that probably doesn’t matter too much.

  • Jaremy

    Excited about him – just hope he doesn’t become another 2-pitch pitcher that ends up in the Yankee ‘pen. If so, then I’d take Noesi over him every day.

    • thenamestsam

      I keep hearing this since they made the trade for Pineda, like the Yankees turn all their starters into relievers. I mean is there someone you’re referring to other than Joba?

      • Kevin Winters

        Does Hughes count?

        • Cris Pengiucci

          Not yet. He’s still considered a start. Look at Nova, Noesi, and watch the AAA bunch. The fact that Joba ended up in the pen may be a somewhat isolated example.

          • Cris Pengiucci

            * considered a starter

        • thenamestsam

          They haven’t exactly buried him as a reliever. He has made at least 7 starts (basically a quarter of a season) for 5 straight years. He has had 3 out of 5 years being projected as a full time starter in the rotation. He has had plenty of chances to make it happen in the rotation. A number of things have contributed to that not happening, but I don’t think that implying that he has been forced to the pen is accurate.

          • Ted Nelson

            Good points.

  • JMK

    Here’s just a bit more of a scouting report on Campos from baseballinstinct.com

    http://baseballinstinct.com/20.....more-13274

    • coolerking101

      This is from August 2011 and differs pretty significantly from Mike’s report. This says Campos sits 91-92 maxing out at 94. That’s not elite velocity (though velocity obviously isn’t everything).

      I guess we’ll find out which report is accurate once the season starts.

  • Jesse

    Ha! I was actually going to ask on tonight’s Open Thread if you were going to do a Campos profile. Anyways, great post as usual.

    • RetroRob

      Okay, go to #2 on your list of profiles wanted!

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    I’m already planning a May vacation in Charleston & Asheville where I’ll be able to catch 7 Riverdog games (4 in Charleston, SC and 3 in Asheville, NC). Can’t wait to see that loaded team!

  • CJ

    I read somewhere that if he was draft eligible he would be a top 10 pick. That’s exciting.

  • DM

    “I didn’t even know Campos existed until the trade went down…”

    Ted still didn’t know Campos existed even after the trade went down.

    • Ted Nelson

      Wow is that pathetic.

      • DM

        Yes, you describing the trade the way you did below is certainly pathetic.

        “The Yankees just traded a potential once in a generation bat for a potential front end starter… And threw in a potential front end starter in Noesi to boot.”

        2 for 1? Where’s the reference to Campos? Apparently receiving a legit 19 yr old prospect with plus stuff in addition to Pineda was lost in the blinding glare of your Montero-love.

        • Ted Nelson

          It is pathetic that you have such a boner for me you randomly bring me up in threads.

          It’s also pathetic that you make things up to make me look stupid.

          • DM

            “…to make me look stupid.”

            You give me too much credit, Ted. You do that all on your own.
            And no boner will ever compare to the one you have for Montero.

            • Ted Nelson

              You are pretending I didn’t know Campos was included in the deal in a thread that listed him as included in the deal… what is the point of that? Obviously any fool could see he was included. That I didn’t mention him in a specific comment doesn’t mean I can’t read. He’s probably at least 3 or 4 years away… which is why I didn’t mention him in my comment. Because the comment you quoted out of context was referring to the immediate fall-out of the deal.

              Again… I was not that much of a Montero fan. Look at the archives here. You seem to be the only person alive who doesn’t think Montero is a very good prospect. What’s the point in pretending I have a view of someone that it is documented on this very site I do not?

              Is it really fun for you to make things up about me that are veritably false and post them on here?

              • DM

                I know you knew that Campos was in the deal as a statement of fact — but you dismissed him as though he wasn’t an important piece in the trade. Everyone seems to see him as a key aspect except you. Nothing was taken out of context. You were pissed that Montero was gone so you painted Noesi a brighter shade than before and acted like the inclusion of Campos was a non-factor. What does Campos being 3 or 4 years away have to do with it? If the Yankees traded Montero and Mason Williams for Pineda and Campos, you wouldn’t factor Williams into the equation because he would be years away??? You’d say the Yankees traded a “potential one in a generation bat” for a “potential front line starter” with no mention of Williams? Absurd. You’d be crowing about the loss of another top 10 prospect, not ignoring it. Check your own first reaction to Campos; it’s all in your own words — and all driven by knee jerk hatred of the trade — the same knee jerk that led to the silly “dynasty” ending comment.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Again, you aren’t actually reading what I’m writing.

                  • DM

                    On this subject, I have. And given enough time you’ll cover “can’t”, “might”, “won’t”, “will”, “some chance”, “probably”, “potentially” maybe-kinda-sorta-could be. But when you say everything you’ve said nothing at all. Do you think no one notices as you create strawman arguments as cover while you take a series of baby steps away from your original over-the-top claims to something more reasonable? Or the hypocrisy of jumping on so many others here then crying “waah, stop trolling me!” “waah, go away” when challenged?

                    I know you’ll say that you’re done responding to me for good — until you do it again — and again — and again.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Dude… I haven’t changed my argument at all. I still feel the same way right now as I did at the time of the trade. Exactly the same.

                  • DM

                    Really?

                    You said this the night of the trade.

                    “Trading more projected production for less is a bad move”

                    Then a few days later you called the same trade…

                    “a solid enough move”

                    Is it a “bad move” or a “solid enough move”, Ted?

                    Those two descriptions aren’t the same.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      That’s semantics.

                      “Solid enough” is not good. It’s not solid. It’s below solid. Where do you draw the line between solid enough and bad? It’s subjective semantics. Stop wasting my time.

                    • DM

                      Still sadly attempting to massage away the obvious. “Solid enough” isn’t more positive than “bad”, huh??? Only in Ted’s baby rattle mind where otherwise non-existent DMs multiply to torment him. Seek help.

          • I Live in My Mom’s Basement

            It appears you feed the unfortunate male tendency to bully the runt of the pack.

            • Ted Nelson

              Or the tendency to feel threatened by people who are smarter…

              • DM

                I’m sorry if I make you feel threatened. Relax.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Yes… I am threatened by someone who comes to this site only to make incorrect factual statements… or someone who changes their handle to make incorrect factual statements with more anonymity than an anonymous blog already provides…

                  • DM

                    What are “incorrect factual statements”?? And you brought up intelligence?

                    I changed my handle once months ago b/c there were many others with my same first name. Getting paranoid? You think there’s more than 1 of me now? Ted, don’t look outside. That’s not me standing across the street with binoculars.

                    Maybe there’s just others around that like to tweak you with the truth. But sorry, there’s only one of me. You’ll have to accuse someone else of multiple personas.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Below you claim Noesi didn’t emerge until AA. That is an easy example. You also claim that by omitting someone’s name from a comment I am undervaluing them… while ignoring the context I posted in (the immediate implications).

                      Do you understand what “or” means? Apparently not. If you don’t have two handles… that means you only post to mess with me… which I would say is a sadder statement on your life.

  • Hank

    Sounds a lot like a younger version of Pineda, no?

    • JMK

      Tall, Hispanic and with a big fastball?

      Sure!

  • thenamestsam

    It seems to me like the Yankees have done an extremely good job with their pitching prospects over the last 5 or 6 years of moving them through the system while enhancing their prospect status. While their struggles with breaking them in at the major league level has been exhaustively documented, they haven’t gotten much credit for moving most of the guys through the system effectively. They have developed a number of major league ready pitchers over that time, from Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy through Nova, Noesi, Warren and Phelps, with ManBan and Betances coming right behind them. The only notable flameout that comes to mind during that period is Brackman (though I’m sure I’m forgetting at least one). While obviously those guys haven’t all hit at the major league level, they’ve all gotten to AAA with their prospect status intact, and the Yankees seem to have learned some lessons from what happened with the Big 3 that they can hopefully apply to take that last step more effectively.
    I hope they can keep it up with Campos, because if they do it looks like they might have a really good one. I’m no scout, but a lot of things to like jump out at you when you watch him, and the control is a major positive sign for a guy that young.

    • STONE COLD Austin Romine

      Christian Garcia is a name your missing.

      Steve White while he was looked at as more of back end rotation gut is another name I’d throw in there along with Alan Horne who both could never get over the injury bug.

      J.B Cox is another one who couldve been productive but obviously had make-up issues. (I never understood the over hype this guy had).

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        I’m guilty of having an irrational love of J.B. Cox.

      • thenamestsam

        Thanks for the assist. There are definitely guys who have washed out, but all in all I think they’ve done a good job of developing guys through most of the process. It’s hard for me to judge because I certainly don’t follow any other systems with anywhere near the close eye I have for the Yankees, but I do think they tend to get unfairly disparaged for their failures to develop pitching because of some high profile failures at the upper levels. If Hughes and Joba had flamed out in single A instead of once they made it to the bigs, I think people would be overall significantly more complimentary of the Yankees pitching development, which is just completely backward.

      • RetroRob

        Did Cox have make-up issues, or did he suffer an arm injury that he never recovered from?

        I also had Cox envy (oh, wait, that sounds very bad) and thought he was going to be David Robertson before there was Robertson.

  • PinedaColada

    I agree I think Campos can become something very special if he just harnesses his offspeed stuff. It is exciting to dream of what this kid can become if he reaches his ceiling. If by some miracle he does get even remotely close to his ceiling the yanks will have another solid middle of the rotation power pitcher. Now if he fully realizes his potential we are talking about a future ace…heres to hoping it happens!

    • jsbrendog

      so cc is signed for what, 6 more years? and pineda is under team control for 5 more right? so, things break extremely well and we COULD POSSIBLY MAYBE have 3 aces in the rotation in 3-5 yrs? so campos somewhere between 22-25? blinded by the small percentage chance of this happening wrapped up in prospect love another boner in the night

      • Bean Tooth

        Is that last sentence a reference to “Blinded by the Light”?

        • jsbrendog

          fact

  • pat

    Sounds like a 19 year old Hector Noesi. Good stuff, wise beyond his ears, good frame, projectable.

    • CJ

      Was Noesi touching 98 at 19? Or ever?

      • Bizzle

        Nope…this kid has a MUCH higher ceiling than Noesi ever had.

      • Ted Nelson

        Velocity isn’t a great way to judge prospects, but yeah… there were reports that he was sitting 93-95 in DR and touching 97. He averaged 93.3 MPH in MLB out of the pen.

        I love the revisionist history. That Noesi got traded isn’t a reason to rip him. Guy is a good prospect. He received top 100 votes from BA last year as I recall.

        • jsbrendog

          He received top 100 votes from BA last year as I recall.

          and campos has already eclipsed that at 19

          After the season, Baseball America ranked him as the third best prospect in the league.

          noesi has never been a top 5 prospect in any league he has been in has he? at any point at any level. to compare the two seems a bit ridiculous

          • Ted Nelson

            To compare top 3 in a short-season league and top 100 in baseball is a bit ridiculous. Especially given Noesi’s rocky early road. Not sure when he was first even eligible for those lists. He didn’t throw 25 IP at a level until 2009. That year in 75.2 IP at Charleston he had a FIP of 2.09 and an ERA of 2.38…

            I do not agree it’s ridiculous to compare them in terms of overall value. Noesi doesn’t have Campos’ upside (he’s like 5 years older), but he’s for a ton more certainty. Noesi is MLB ready. He’s succeeded through the minors and has a good FB/change combo. Campos has succeeded for one short-season.

            • jsbrendog

              dude. you just shouldn’t bother anymore.

              • Ted Nelson

                I would say the same about you.

                • DM

                  well played, Ted. LOL

        • thenamestsam

          It’s really you who seems to have been more guilty of revisionist history. No one is “ripping Noesi”. He was a fine prospect. A fringe top-100 guy who had high certainty, but low projection. Saying that Noesi can’t throw as hard and isn’t as good of a prospect as Campos is more like a fact than a rip job. On the other hand, saying that Noesi is a “potential front-end starter” is revisionist history. I never heard you or anyone else say that before he was traded. People said he might be able to be Ivan Nova if things went right, and that’s what most people are still saying. That’s a nice guy to have around. Campos is better.

          • Ted Nelson

            “Saying that Noesi can’t throw as hard and isn’t as good of a prospect as Campos is more like a fact than a rip job.”

            He hits 97 and Campos hits 98… wow!

            I disagree that he’s not as good of a prospect. Prospect value isn’t all about upside. Certainty is also a big part of it.

            “On the other hand, saying that Noesi is a “potential front-end starter” is revisionist history. I never heard you or anyone else say that before he was traded.”

            If a guy is projected to be a mid-rotation starter… what is his potential?

            “People said he might be able to be Ivan Nova if things went right”

            No. People generally said he was a better prospect that Nova. See… this is the revisionist history I’m talking about.

            “Campos is better.”

            Campos is better than a guy who had 2.7 fWAR in MLB last season? Are you serious? You realize he’s never pitched in a full season league, right?

            Upside is great… but acting like low-A prospects are directly comparable to AAA and MLB guys is ridiculous.

            • thenamestsam

              In order: 1.I’m not going to argue about the velocity, because it doesn’t really matter, but it’s still harder, and Campos sits higher by all reports.

              2.You can disagree that Campos is the better prospect. That’s fine. Everyone who ranks prospects for a living disagrees with you. I’m inclined to side with them.

              3. Noesi isn’t projected to be a mid-rotation starter. That’s incorrect. For example, from KG’s prospect review from last year: “Perfect World Projection: Noesi has the polish to be a solid fourth or fifth starter.” And from his review of the trade: “His ceiling is just a number-four starter, but he’s already there”. Maybe he improves and becomes a mid-rotation starter. But no professional prospect-watcher I have seen has ever said that Noesi has front-rotation potential, or projects as anything better than back of the rotation.

              4.People did say he was a marginally better prospect than Ivan Nova…a year ago. Then Nova had a breakout year at the major league level while Noesi was a mop-up man. I certainly haven’t heard anyone rate him higher than Nova recently. Nova reached his projected ceiling as a back-end starter. Noesi could be that. Exactly what I said.

              5. Campos is better. Every person who gets paid to have an opinion about these things shares that opinion. I get that you don’t, but while you can argue that they aren’t comparable, people do compare them all the time. That’s one of the many challenges of prospect ratings, and Campos is a much more highly rated prospect than Noesi, in spite of what Noesi has over him in terms of certainty.

              • Ted Nelson

                1. I am not arguing 97 MPH is faster than 98 MPH. I’m arguing that it’s unimportant. And mostly I’m arguing that suddenly Noesi doesn’t throw as hard to Yankees fans here now that he’s not a Yankee.

                2. Provide for me a list that has Campos ranked higher than Noesi. Top 3 in a short-season league doesn’t mean anything about how he ranks relative to anyone outside that league.

                3. #4 is pretty damn close to the middle of the rotation. Let me know how Nova and Doug Fister were projected before 2011.

                4. People rated his stuff better than Nova’s. It’s not Noesi’s decision whether he’s the long-man or in AAA… You can’t penalize players for their role.

                5. Because you say so!!! He has a better ceiling, but that doesn’t make him a better prospect. Again… you haven’t actually shown a list rating Campos above Noesi. And it’s pretty rare that every single prospect rating would agree on something like this anyway… it’s not like one of them is Bryce Harper. Projecting a short season guy is not easy.

                • thenamestsam

                  1. I certainly didn’t say anything like that.

                  2. I’ll lump this in with 5.

                  3. Try re-reading those quotes. They say upside is #4 or #5. If you really think that is equivalent to saying he projects to be a mid-rotation starter with potential to be a high-end starter, I don’t know what to tell you. Nova and Fister have nothing to do with this. Even if both beat their projections, all that does is mean projections can be wrong. That fact alone doesn’t make Noesi a potential front-end starter any more than you or I are potential front-end starters. We could beat our projections!

                  4. Of course you penalize players for their role when measuring their prospect status. As you said above projection isn’t just based on stuff, but also results. It’s not Noesi’s fault, but a full-year of results as a starter at the big league level greatly enhanced Nova’s status. Noesi did not get a similar bump. Thus Nova is now the far more valuable asset. Surely you don’t disagree with that.

                  5.While I have no list, the consensus at the time of the trade seemed to be that Campos was superior to Noesi. I don’t have time to dig through twitter feeds as much as I’d like to, but that was my opinion. I personally think Campos will be around #5 or #6 on Yankees prospect lists not. I don’t think Noesi would be close to that if he still had his prospect status. Feel free to disagree with either of those.

                  • thenamestsam

                    Oh. Found one easily.

                    https://fr.twitter.com/#!/Kevin_Goldstein/status/157994504593473536

                    There you go. Satisfied?

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Do you really think one tweet proves your point that all scouts think Campos is better than Noesi?

                      1. Didn’t accuse you. That was the point you chose to respond to. Lots of fans are suddenly acting like Noesi was garbag.

                      3. If ou can look at Noesi’s stuff and performance and say his ceiling is #4… You don’t understand the term.

                      4. The goal is to measure independent performance. If a guy misses a year with TJS and you suddenly act like he never performed before you are probably going to look like an idiot when he comes back. Noesi basically had a year off last year.
                      5. Disagree with the premium most of those lists put on upside vs. certainty

                  • Ted Nelson

                    If you are on record saying his “upside” is a #4 or 5… You going to admit you were wrong if he becomes more?

      • DM

        No. Noesi was never touted that way. He was more of a dark horse type who emerged late in AA — and didn’t do much at AAA. And he had to be protected on the 40 man. He had TJ surgery a while ago as well.

        • Ted Nelson

          Why do you keep making up things that are factually wrong???

          In Low-A Charleston Noesi had a 2.09 FIP then he cruised for 80+ IP in Tampa to get to Trenton… and you claim he emerged in AA? What are you on?

          That you didn’t know who he was doesn’t mean he didn’t exist.

          Noesi didn’t do well in AAA? 3.2 FIP isn’t good? Again, what are you taking?

          • DM

            How many quality starts did Noesi have in AAA? How many innings did he pitch in total? It’s funny that Montero’s 1000abs of .288 with mediocre x-tra base hit totals is not indicative, but Noesi’s abbreviated AAA record that included a total of 8 starts, only 43 innings with a whip of 1.47, more hits than innings pitched and an era just under 4 is wrongly described as “didn’t do much” by me?

            I guess I’m on truth serum. But besides Xanax or Prozac, I have no idea what you’re taking.

            • Ted Nelson

              Stop. You didn’t say he had a small sample at AAA. You said he didn’t do well in AAA. That is demonstrably false.

              • DM

                I said he didn’t do much — and he didn’t — neither in volume nor indicative quality — which is why Cashman and Girardi said he had been wrongly rushed — and ticketed for AAA to start again this year.

                I can see you’re getting rattled now, Ted. First Montero vs Pineda — now Noesi vs Campos debates all over. Don’t worry. If Noesi doesn’t pitch well in Seattle, you can start creeping away from these statements to new ones — then if he starts to pitch well, you can creep back and deny the latter statements. You’ll cover it all before it’s over. You’re the revisionist historian on this board.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Right… the Yankees got way more than they gave up and the Mariners have no idea what they are doing. Do you actually think before you come up with these ridiculous arguments?

            • Bizzle

              Well put…but this guys is as blinded by Noesi as “Rich in NJ” is/was in love with Montero. No matter what you say, he will always believe he is right.

              • Ted Nelson

                Noesi has a FIP under 3.2 in his 50+ IP at the level… so, yeah, I’m always going to believe that he did well at that level. Because, you know, he did.

              • DM

                Ted only fell in love with Noesi after the trade. He has to rationalize and contort everything now b/c he hates that Montero was traded. Pineda suddenly became suspect; Noesi suddenly became front line; and Campos became a non-entity. All b/c he believes Montero is a one in a generation bat — whose loss will disrupt the Yankee playoff run somehow. Silly.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Again making up things… I think Noesi is a good prospect. My opinion on him hasn’t changed after the trade.

                  Apparently you also don’t understand the word “potential.” Might want to invest is a dictionary big guy.

                  • jsbrendog

                    apprently you don’t understand potential either since every single other person but you says he projects as a back of the rotation starter.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Projection isn’t potential. Try bringing your A game next time, son.

          • Preston

            When analyzing stats you need to also look at scouting reports. Noesi put up good numbers but was never considered the same level of prospect that Campos currently is. That isn’t to say that scouts are always right, or that stats aren’t more important it’s just an observation.

            • Ted Nelson

              You need to look at the context. At 19 Noesi wasn’t in the same situation as Campos. He had 7 IP that year. He had TJS and a 50 game suspension. He didn’t get a full season in until

              I still haven’t seen anyone back up their claims that Campos is an uber-prospect with anything besides a top 3 rating in a short season league. He’s a very exciting young prospect. That doesn’t mean he’s a can’t miss prospect. Noesi is a good prospect in his own right. I am not saying Campos is bad or Noesi is great. I am saying that they are both good prospects and time will tell who is better.

              • DM

                From a player not worth mentioning as a part of the trade b/c he’s only in A ball to…

                “He’s a very exciting young prospect.”

                You weren’t excited by him right after the trade.

                Do you see a difference between trading Montero and Noesi for a

                “potential front line starter”

                versus

                “potential front line starter” AND “a very exciting young prospect”

                Yeah, your views don’t change. Not much.
                Clueless and dishonest is no way to go through life, Ted.

                • Ted Nelson

                  What’s your issue? That I omitted him from a comment doesn’t say anything about how I felt about him. Do you really not understand that?

                  • DM

                    Referring to a 2-for-2 trade as a 2-for-1 trade isn’t indicative of how unimportant you think the omitted player is??? That’s priceless. Initial indifference to a now “very exciting prospect” didn’t mean anything, huh?
                    Like I said, if Mason Williams had been included rather than Noesi, you certainly wouldn’t describe the trade as simply Montero for Pineda — while omitting those “who knows??” Low A-ballers, Williams and Campos. You’d be screaming about Williams. You’d make sure no one forgot that they gave him up too. To support your dislike for the trade you tried to depict Campos as a non-essential after thought.

    • STONE COLD Austin Romine

      Noesi during his Age 19 season 7ip 11 K, 1 BB, 0.49 FIP with the GCL Yankees in 2006… Then he served a A 50-game suspension for violating the Minor League Drug Prevention and Treatment Program the following season… Then he had Tommy John surgery not to long after. Noesi really didn’t hit the ground running until he was 22 in 2009.

      • jsbrendog

        JUICER!!!!!

  • Fernando

    Agree with Ted. Duda is definitely a poor defensive outfielder.

    • STONE COLD Austin Romine

      Wrong thread. You just Lohud’ed the Prospect Profile.

  • Monterowasdinero

    I say we make this guy our #5 starter (CC was 17-5 as a 20 year old) and get rid of everybody else (insert who you like) hanging around plus $$$$ to get Montero back.

    /can’t let go….yet

    • LiterallyFigurative

      There there, dinero, there there……..

    • jsbrendog

      give it some time. you’re still in mourning.

    • nsalem

      Maybe you can just become a Mariner fan. People would understand.

      • Monterowasdinero

        Thanks folks. Friends are needed in times like these. I have added http://www.mariners.com to my daily baseball treats.

  • Preston

    The Pineda for Montero swap is a tough one, it’s a need based trade. It could go either way. The part I like about the trade is the Noesi for Campos swap. Sure Noesi is big league ready, but he’s a back end starter or middle reliever. The way Campos is throwing his fastball (hard and for strikes) he looks like even if his secondary pitches only develop into show me pitches he could be a late inning guy. If his other pitches do come around and he posts a good season in A ball then he’ll be another high end starting prospect like Banuelos and Betances. We can never have to many of those.

    • nsalem

      He’s not a back-end starter he’s projected as a back end starter. These projections are often not very accurate.

    • Ted Nelson

      Do people still claim there’s no revisionist history going on regarding Noesi?

      • nsalem

        f someone says so it must be true.

      • Preston

        I’m not saying Noesi isn’t a good prospect, his floor is substantially higher than Campos, but I would rather trade for a higher ceiling player than the sure thing.

      • jsbrendog

        no there isnt because that is how he was fucking profiled. since when has he been projected as higher?

        http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....esi-40596/

        • Ted Nelson

          No, it’s not. He was a middle reliever as a rookie. That’s not his ceiling.

          He has usually been projected as better than Nova.

          • Bizzle

            Wait….where the HELL was Noesi projected higher than Nova? Links???

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              I thought he was at this time last year. Nova’s year obviously changed that.

              • Ted Nelson

                I don’t think Noesi is obviously better than Nova. I just dno’t think Nova is obviously better than Noesi either. It was one season.

                Nova’s slider does change things, but Noesi did have better stuff and better results throughout their MiLB careers. I don’t think you can hold it against Noesi that the Yankees basically wasted his year. If he had matched his career 3.2 FIP at AAA or made some developments on that in AAA, he might still project as good as or better than Nova.

  • CNP

    “nascnet changeup”…ya learn a new word every day!