Jan
13

Yankees trade Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi for Michael Pineda and Jose Campos

By

(AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

According to multiple reports, the Yankees have traded Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi to the Mariners for Michael Pineda and Jose Campos. Jon Heyman, Greg Johns, Larry Stone, and Jerry Crasnick all deserve some level of credit. Heyman says the Yankees asked about Felix Hernandez before pulling off this deal, but were told he is off limits. That’s not a surprise.

I wrote this mailbag about Pineda back in November, so you can check that out if you’re unfamiliar with the young right-hander. He turns 23 next week and finished fifth in the AL Rookie of the Year voting last year thanks to his 9.11 K/9 (24.9 K%) and 2.89 BB/9 (7.9 BB%) in 171 IP. He is a fly ball pitcher (36.3% grounders last year) and kinda homer prone (0.95 HR/9), so that is a concern. As a fastball-slider pitcher with a show-me changeup, Pineda also has a bit of a platoon split. Plenty of time to work on that though, the guy’s got exactly the kind of power stuff that can play in the AL East. He is under team control for another five years, the next two for the league minimum. Here’s some video.

Campos is a 19-year-old right-hander with enormous upside according to Ben Badler and Kevin Goldstein. Apparently he’s related to the Escobars (Kelvim and Alcides), so he has baseball bloodlines. He checks in at a healthy 6-foot-4 and 195 lbs., and was considered Seattle’s fifth best prospect according to Goldstein (subs. req’d). “Campos had one of the best fastballs in the short-season leagues in 2011,” said KG in his write-up. “It’s plus and more in terms of velocity, sitting in the low 90s with plenty of 95-96 readings every time out. Campos also throws the pitch with the kind of command usually found only in big-leaguers; he works both sides of the plate, paints the corners, and comes at hitters with a strong downward angle.”

In 14 starts and 81.1 IP in the short season Northwest League, Campos struck out 85 and walked just 13. Just dominated the level. Goldstein does caution that he can become a one-pitch pitcher at times, as his changeup and slurvy breaking ball need work. At his age, that’s not much of a surprise. It sure sounds like the fastball is elite though, and that’s a good thing. Here is some video. It’s worth noting that the Yankees and Mariners are the two biggest spenders in Latin America year after year, and all four players involved in this trade were acquired as international free agents.

Losing Montero obviously hurts, especially since the regular lineup isn’t getting any younger. Despite all their work to help him over the years, it was pretty clear that the Yankees didn’t consider him a long-term catcher based on how they used him in September. A few years ago they were willing to trade him for three months of Cliff Lee, and now they got five years of Pineda. They certainly ended up getting better value in return for one of the best position player prospects in baseball, even if it cost them a shot at the 2010 World Series.

I liked Noesi more than most, but he was just a notch above the Adam Warren/David Phelps level in terms of long-term value. He can miss bats and can step right into a big league rotation, but the Yankees have the depth to cover the loss. Noesi’s inclusion in the trade is essentially the cost of doing business. The Yankees will end up with an open 40-man roster spot as a result of the trade, but that will eventually go to Andruw Jones. It hurts to lose Montero, no doubt, but Pineda fits the team’s needs better. This could easily end up another Josh Beckett-Hanley Ramirez situation, where both sides are happy with their return.

Categories : Transactions

514 Comments»

  1. Claudell says:

    I’m still mad at the Mariners for the Cliff Lee (non-)trade. We’ll see what happens.

  2. keithr says:

    This is terrifying.

  3. Paul VuvuZuvella says:

    Wow

    • Jon G says:

      Talk about WOW – check out the line on campos (below). Yanks needed more lower level pitching depth and this guy is a 19 yr old phenom with a high-90′s fastball. Will he start in Tampa? This guy will be fun to watch…

      Jose Campos – Everett Aquasox: 8 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 SO
      One night and about 60 miles north, Everett’s young phenom Jose Campos may have outdone Ramirez as he flirted with perfection. In the longest outing of his pro career (8 innings), the 19-year old Campos allowed only two hits and no earned runs while striking out seven. But more impressive, the 19-year old righty from La Guaira, Venezuela was perfect for 6 1/3.

      Campos is relying primarily on his mid to high 90s fastball right now, but the right-hander also throws a changeup and slider that are generating swinging strikes in the Northwest League. The victory lowered Campos’ ERA at home to 0.95 in six starts, and increased his strikeout-to-walk ratio at Everett Memorial to 40-to-three. In his last six starts (including two road games), Campos has a 1.46 ERA, a 42:4 SO:BB and a tidy little 0.78 WHIP.

  4. Erica says:

    I HAVE BROKEN OUT INTO A COLD SWEAT. NO.

  5. Zanath says:

    I’m not sure I like this.

  6. Jon in CUO says:

    NO!

  7. mko says:

    Boy, I hope not…

  8. Plank says:

    “young impact hitter” = Eduardo Nunez?

  9. Countryclub says:

    It’s happening. Come to grips with it. Sucks to lose Jesus but they got their #2 pitcher. Now sign oswalt or kuroda

  10. Craig Maduro says:

    Definitely not a fan.

  11. Brooklyn Ed says:

    1 WORD: EWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    If that indeed does happen, Fielder for DH?

  12. Sam says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  13. DERP says:

    Is anyone on board for this if it is straight up?

    • Tyler says:

      I think it’s fair value if he’s a DH long term. Putting aside my attachment to following Montero come up the last few years.

    • LarryM.,Fl. says:

      Now that the air is back in my belly. I can go for it without too much issue. Montero is a potent bat, a DH is most likely all he’ll be. A good one is most certain. The Yankees need pitching giving up Noesi is no big deal. Gaining pineda is a big deal. he must have a few years of control and is a big time power pitcher. CC,Nova,Pineda,Garcia and Hughes not all that bad. If we can unload Burnett and about 16 million in salary. We have money to get Oswalt, Jackson or Kuroda. I like it.

      • JU says:

        They have young pitchers on the cusp. Explain to me where they have a young hitter anywhere on the horizon. They just traded away a once in a generation hitter and I hope he sticks it up their asses for the next 15 years. Hope UR happy now Yankee fans – you got the other kids toy! It’s always brighter and shinier than URs! Get back to me when Pineda turns into AJ Burnett.

        • pete says:

          “once in a generation hitter”

          that really depends on what your definitions of “once” and “generation” are. I think it’s much more fair to say that Montero has the potential to be the best hitter in a lot of lineups for a few years, but let’s not crown him an MVP candidate before he’s played two months in the big leagues, mkay?

  14. seeking28 says:

    Please God no. Keep @YankeesJesus in pinstripes.

  15. Max says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  16. Ricky says:

    heyman confirms

  17. keithr says:

    I don’t understand this. Isn’t the system mostly devoid of “impact hitters” but relatively well stocked with young pitchers, specifically with two high ceiling guys in AAA. What’s the rush?

    • Craig Maduro says:

      That’s what concerns me, but maybe Cashman has a plan that we haven’t discussed yet. I guess one thing we do know is that the search for pitching will soon become the search for a big bat.

  18. DERP says:

    It’s done.

  19. DZ says:

    NOOO, IT BETTER BE FOR FELIX

  20. Danny says:

    JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
    montero is traded for pineda

    Guess its done

  21. keithr says:

    what the FUCK

  22. Erica says:

    WHERE IS MONTEROISDINERO

  23. Robert says:

    No Michael Pineda is overrated.

  24. Chris says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

  25. MeGustaMontero (JM) says:

    No ;_;

  26. MeGustaMontero (JM) says:

    No ;_;

    • JM says:

      I guess it’s back to this username…

    • Chelo says:

      One of the saddest day for me as a #Yankee fan. Can’t and won’t root against my team but I am going to miss #Jesus we have been following him since he was a teenager . I don’t understand the trade honestly. Yes it makes us better but we are stocked in pitching. #Pineda is no sure thing. He doesn’t have the concern of #Betances and #Banuelos.But pitching is just to volitile and he’s a power pitcher.

  27. Anthony says:

    You guys are nuts this is a great trade for the yanks

    • Bizzle says:

      Thank you….this fills a HUGE need for this team right now. & it doesn’t add any significant payroll. WIN WIN

    • A-Rod's Hip says:

      Exactly!

      The only people complaining are doing so out of emotion right now. Pipe down from the emotional attachment and analyze the situation.

      Montero was PUTRID behind the plate, and most likely will never develop as a defensive catcher, which lowered his value as a prospect. An unknown remains as to what position he will play.

      Pineda is a guy with #1 potential, and will turn 23 years old next week. The Yankees just traded a guy who would be nothing but a glorified DH for a guy with the potential to be a #1 or at least #2 starting pitcher. It’s a no brainer trade if you’re thinking rationally.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        How long before they fuck up Pineda. Hughes and Joba were suppose to be aces too right.

      • WayneD says:

        You make several somewhat indefensible statements:

        “Montero is PUTRID behind the plate . . .”

        Really? And how many times have you seen him catch? Posada was never a gold glove catcher, but his bat helped us win 4 rings, and Montero’s bat projects to be much better than Posada’s.

        “Pineda is a guy with #1 potential . . .”

        Maybe or he may be nothing more than a #4 or #5 starter:

        He had a 3.74 ERA pitching about half his games in the best pitchers park in the AL, which means his ERA could easily be in the 4.50 to 5.00+ range in the AL East. His home/away splits also indicate he benefited from pitching in Seattle.

        The following facts are more disconcerting, however, against:

        Boston (1 start): 14.54 ERA, .381 BA, .619 SLG, 1.028 OPS (impressive, huh?)

        Angels (1 start, but sans Albert): 12.60 ERA, .619 SLG, .967 OPS (got a woody yet?)

        Tigers (2 starts): 5.56 ERA, .413 SLG, .746 OPS

        Yankees (1 start): 5.40 ERA, .681 OPS (an HR cost him dearly, pitched well otherwise; but that AJ’s problem, too.)

        Texas (3 starts): 4.74 ERA, .465 SLG, .735 OPS

        Toronto: (3 starts): ERA: 5.30, .432 SLG, .750 OPS

        So, who did Pineda have great success against???

        Inter-league (4 starts): ERA: 1.71. (Oh, what a surprise: he beat up on the AAA league.)

        Twins (2 starts): ERA 1.64

        A’s (2 starts): ERA: 2.00

        Padres (1 start): 0.00 ERA (Now that’s truly impressive, nobody shuts down that powerhouse!)

        In all, he pitched really well against 2 (!) really good teams: the Rays, who are know more for their pitching than hitting, and the Phillies, who had an off year at the plate.

        So, where do you see a “#1 potential” in the above shitty pitching?

        This could go down as the worst trade in Yankees’ history!

        I hope to hell I’m wrong, but the evidence to the contrary isn’t impressive at this point. And think back to the last guy we gave up on and shipped to Seattle. Uggggggggh!

        • Montero is not a catcher.

          • Andrew 518 says:

            To be fair Pineda was pretty lights out for first half of season, faded pretty hard the second half, but it was uncharted territory for him workload speaking. This is certainly not uncommon amongst young pitchers.

        • Soxhata says:

          Thanks for the in-depth info.I was already sick after hearing about this trade.Now I’m suicidal.Our lineup needed a boost from the best young hitter we have produced since probably Jeter.As far as catching,Napoli didn’t look too bad for Texas last year,Piazza wasn’t a gold glover,and with the addition of Kuroda,we still had Hughes,Banuelos,Betances,Nova to fight for the other position.If Pineda sucks Cashman is gonna be a Pinata.

  28. candyforstalin says:

    they better be taking burnett too. ugh.

  29. The Big City of Dreams says:

    What the fuck

  30. John R. says:

    You’ve got to be kidding me. Cashman falls asleep at the wheel all season then wakes up for THIS? The only way montero should be going to the mariners is if Felix is coming to us. The mariners shouldn’t expect to contend in the next century and we’re giving away the top prospect. This is RIDICULOUS.

  31. Robert says:

    I HATE Hal so much

  32. Steve says:

    Time to start disparaging that DH only scumbag amidoingitright?

  33. JLevs says:

    Uh, What??? Could this be any worse??

  34. Geo says:

    Sad panda.

  35. Countryclub says:

    Have to assume noesi is in this deal too

  36. Erica says:

    Oh my GOD, I’m so pissed. At least I got to see Montero hit that boomin’ home run in that game vs. the Red Sox on 9/24.

  37. teddy says:

    brian cashman as a general manger is a loser, fire him please, who the hell is the dh

    • A-Rod's Hip says:

      you’re seriously worrying about who the DH is gonna be? lol

      unless we think Nova’s gonna duplicate his ’10 season, we currently had no #2 or even reliable #3 starter.. Pineda is worth the risk for a future DH..

      • Guillermo says:

        Montero can hit and he will continue to hit for years after choke-Rod and pop-up Tex are done. The Yankees need young hitting talent. He was the only hitter in the system traded for a guy with 1/2 a good year who faded in the second half.

        • Andrew 518 says:

          I agree wholheartedly that they Yankees need young hitters, and I have my concerns here, but really how much are you taking advantage of youth if Montero is full time DH? Really seems like kind of a waste for someone that young. If he was lining up to be catcher or if they were planning on moving him to another position it might be one thing but it was becoming aparent that wasn’t in the plans.

        • Andrew 518 says:

          I agree wholheartedly that they Yankees need young hitters, and I have my concerns here, but really how much are you taking advantage of youth if Montero is full time DH? Really seems like kind of a waste for someone that young. If he was lining up to be catcher or if they were planning on moving him to another position it might be one thing but it was becoming aparent that wasn’t in the plans.

  38. JUN says:

    Who did this deal?

    Cash or Hal?

    • Robert says:

      Most likely Hal see Soriano

      • Louis says:

        I dont think Hal is educated enough to know who micheal pineda is anyways.

      • WayneD says:

        This trade has Cashman written all over it. Not Hal. (I agree with Louis’ post: I doubt Hal knew who Pineda is.)

        Prediction: This is the trade that will evetually get Cashman fired.

        As I said earlier, I hope to hell I’m wrong, but this looks like a disaster!

  39. Fred says:

    This deal would make Jay Buhner look like Tony Womack.

    We finally have a stud who hits like he is not scared as he showed us when he was called up in September and has better right center power than anyone in baseball and the idiot Cashman would trade him for a guy that the league started to catch up with at the end of the year.

    Trading Montero would be the worst trade in the History of baseball and only a moron like Cashman would do it.

    If you want a stop gap pitcher go get Oswalt or Jackson for one year and then go get Hamels or Cain next year as free agents.

    I hate Cashman. Go climb another building in Stanford and fall off moron.

  40. Nathan says:

    I’ll admit it: I have no idea on who Michael Pineda is. Can someone fill me in?

    I’m surprised that the Yankees trade Montero for a pitcher with one year under his belt considering how high they held Montero. I was certain they would have only parted with him for Felix.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      I’m surprised that the Yankees trade Montero for a pitcher with one year under his belt

      Not saying I like the trade, but Pineda has 5 remaining years of team control.

    • Steve says:

      Don’t you think Mariner fans are saying I can’t believe we traded Pineda for a hitter with 70 abs und his belt

  41. Mister Delaware says:

    I’m thinking if I’m a Mariners fan, I’m upset about trading a 6’5 kid with a rocket for a righty, no-position power bat. Who knows. Could be a perfect needs swap.

  42. pat says:

    There’s more to come.

  43. teddy says:

    it all comes to down to yanks being unsecured bitches

  44. mko says:

    Oh man, I really wanted to see Montero’s career in pinstripes. And for who? A young pitcher with a track record of one decent season in the AL West? I hope this works out or I am gonna stay pissed forever.

    • And what exactly is Montero’s MLB track record? Don’t cry about Pineda lacking one as a reason to be upset. If it’s an emotional response, it’s an emotional response. Don’t pretend otherwise.

  45. maeby says:

    Why? Just why? This is so unfortunate and so out of nowhere. So upset

  46. Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

    Friday the 13th’d

  47. JohnnyBGoode says:

    I don’t get it. Pineda has a high K rate.
    I love Montero, and am proud to say I saw his first two MLB homeruns in person.
    I know position player>pitcher.
    But Pineda was the #2 prospect in baseball last year.

  48. DERP says:

    Bye Hector

  49. Mykey says:

    I’m so God damn sad. Way too attached to Jesus to put any rational thought into analyzing this. Ugh.

  50. Ray Fuego says:

    I would laugh if we got Smoak also.

  51. Justin says:

    It makes me sad. But Pineda’s a 23 year old who Ks more than 9/9 and doesn’t walk too many. We’ll have to see for the rest of the deal.

  52. Mister Delaware says:

    Klaw had Pineda #20 in his top 50 under 25, Montero not listed.

    (But I bet he’ll flip-flop them now because he hates the Yankees!!!)

  53. Max says:

    Seriously, Cashman haters, this deal has Hal and Randy written all over it.

  54. whyyyyy says:

    Omg they traden noesi too omgggg i hate this

  55. Angelo says:

    I love Montero and like most fans, I love the farm system, but why do people hate this trade so much?

    Pineda is a young cost controlled pitcher that had a 9.11 K/9 last season along with a 3.42 FIP.

    The logical fan in me thinks this is a good trade, but the irrational prospect lover, says “NO NO NO.”

    Either way it should be interesting to see if there are any other prospects/players in this trade

    • Pasqua says:

      People were going to hate any trade involving Montero. And, I’m willing to bet all those clamoring, “Only for Felix!” would be bitching if the trade was, in fact, for Felix, if only because more pieces would have been involved and everyone would say we gave “too much.”

  56. Adam says:

    Objectively I really, really, really want to like this trade. It is hard to turn off what my heart feels and that reaction. A lot will depend on the other parts of the trade.

  57. Cy Pettitte says:

    Montero and Noesi?

    /blowsbrainsout

  58. Mister Delaware says:

    I hate seeing Noesi in this one. Which I admit is weird.

  59. Tom Zig says:

    Im really upset right now.

  60. Plank says:

    The Yankees have just shattered my worldview. I need a few hours to digest this and see if I like the move or not.

  61. BigBlueAL says:

    OMG, the Yankees traded a young player who can only DH for a top pitching prospect who has already proven himself at the MLB level!!

  62. Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

    Now that I think about it, CC-ManBan-Pineda could be a helluva 1-2-3.

  63. Chilibacca says:

    russell is muscle

  64. JLevs says:

    So starting rotation is:

    1. Sabathia
    2. Pineda
    3. Nova
    4-5. Burnett/Garcia/Hughes?

    Odd man out to the bullpen?

    • radnom says:

      It should be Burnett, but I have little to no faith that it will be.

      If Hughes goes to the bullpen, we may never see him in a starting role again.

    • Kiko Jones says:

      CC / Pineda / Kuroda / Nova

      Free for all for no.5 btwn AJ, Garcia and Hughes, w/ Hughes probably going into the bullpen.

  65. John says:

    All the hate for this trade is ridiculous. Montero has no position besides DH and we need that spot for arod and tex. Pineda is young cheap and already siccessful. His addition to the rotation is a more significant addition than Montero’s to the lineup.

  66. seeking28 says:

    Ok – reading more about this and settling down, young pitching talent is important. but damn I love home grown players and this one hurts.

    • whozat says:

      Any trade that nets you high-upside talent is going to hurt. Especially if that talent has a favorable contract situation.

      The homer in me wanted to see Montero stay in pinstripes. I saw him hit bombs in spring training the first time I went with my father a couple years ago. I saw him play in his first season and hit bombs. I think he’s going to be a really good (possibly great) hitter for a while, and I wanted to see him grow up and hit 3-4 with Cano through the middle of this decade. But…I also realize that he was probably a DH/backup C at _best_ for the Yanks, and that limits his value a bit. And I know that Michael Pineda is a huge arm that has already succeeded in MLB and is under contract for 5 more years. Given the presence of Warren et al in AAA, Noesi was very expendable. So…honestly, this trade is probably fair.

      I’m still a little sad about it, but that’s just me being irrational.

  67. whyyyyy says:

    mike..who dh’s for the yankees? jones?

  68. Nathan says:

    I wonder if this takes the Yankees out of the Oswalt/Kuroda/Jackson talks.

    I personally would have preferred to sign one of those two to one year deals, let Banuelos/Betances mature and call them up as needed while holding onto Montero.

    I mean just looking at Pineda’s stats quickly he looks good but for such a small sample size, the Yankees are gambling.

  69. BigBlueAL says:

    Apparently this Jose Campos kid the Yankees also got is pretty good too. Only 19 yo.

  70. Tyler says:

    Jose Campos and Noesi included in the deal.

  71. Robert says:

    This trade shows this ownership knows NOTHING about baseball

  72. jay h says:

    who is jose Campos?

    • Rainbow Connection says:

      Not even google knows.

    • Need Pitching says:

      pretty good though very young pitching prospect
      http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2012

    • boogie down says:

      From Mariners Trade Review (not sure how good the site is, TBH):

      Jose Vicente Campos
      Position: RHP | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
      Born: 7/27/1992 | Height: 6’4? | Weight: 195
      Hometown: La Guaira, Venezuela
      Acquired: IFA signing on 1/15/09 (Emilio Carrasquel and Patrick Guerrero)
      MFR #20 Mariners Prospect
      MiLB.com Stats Page | FanGraphs Stats Page

      Grades (Current/Future Potential)
      Fastball: 55/65
      Campos brings a solid power pitcher’s frame to the mound, with a long and strong frame that looks to have room to add strength, and hopefully velocity with it. Even without adding another couple of ticks, Campos already has above-average fastball velocity, pumping it in in the low-to-mid 90?s, and occasionally flashing higher when he reaches back for gas. Some reports even have him hitting 100, but I have yet to confirm that with anyone I talk to who have seen him.

      The fastball can get movement, but on an inconsistent basis right now; when it moves, it gets a little heavy, with a little bit of gloveside run. It’s not a ton of movement, but when he can do that while whipping it in at 93 MPH, that’s a hard pitch to square up on, especially in the lower minors. An encouraging sign for his future fastball is his excellent arm speed and the ease he achieves it with; that will make it much easier and more likely to add velocity as he matures physically.

      Curveball: 45/60
      Campos’ curve is only decent right now, serving well enough to keep low-level hitters off-balance, but it gives tantalizing flashes of something more. Most of the time, the curve is on the slurvy side of things, but when it’s on, it’s a nasty, snapping, power curve. No one is sure if Campos can get that thing working consistently, but it’ll be a sonofabitch of a pitch if he can. Either version can be thrown for strikes, which can certainly help him out at times.

      Changeup: 40/55
      Another pitch for Campos that shows up OK consistently, but occasionally gives you glimpses of more. It’s probably not going to be as good as the curve can be, but Campos is already showing a pretty fair feel for the pitch for an 18 year old (19 at the end of this month), and that’s the most important part of developing a changeup at this stage of a pitcher’s career.

      Command: 40-45/55
      Campos is never going to have the command that Felix Hernandez does, or that Michael Pineda demonstrates at times, but he should be able to be OK in that department. He’s still young and developing a consistent feel for his pitches, especially the fastball as it’s gained velocity over the last couple of years. At this stage, his control (pure strike-throwing) is probably better than his command (control plus pitching smarts, put simply), but he is demonstrating a slowly developing feel for the mound, which is a great thing to see at his age.

      Mechanics:
      Campos comes out with a roughly three-quarters arm slot, generally sitting just a tick below a “true” three-quarter delivery. The delivery is sound, without major hitches, and he doesn’t show the ball overmuch in any particular stage. He sometimes lets his arm drift down a bit on his secondary pitches, which leads to the slurviness of the curveball, and makes the change easier to differentiate from the fastball. Campos tends to get a little loose in his delivery as the game goes on, worsening his control, but that’s not unusual in a teenage pitcher. The Mariners’ staff are working with him to stay sound and finish off his pitches better, which should help that issue in the long run.

      Overall:
      Campos is a very, very impressive young man. While he doesn’t have the upside that Felix or Pineda did at his stage, he still shows a lot of things that you like to see, especially in what he flashes for future development at his age. His body type is almost picture-perfect for the type of pitcher he is, which only adds to the excitement and feelings of plus projection.

      If I had to throw a future projection on him, I’d say Campos has a good shot at holding down a third or fourth slot in a rotation in fine fashion, with a chance at being a number two if his command improves sufficiently. If his command doesn’t progress enough, however, he could still have solid enough value as a late-inning reliever with his stuff. This is a kid to keep an eye on, and be more than willing to get excited about.

  73. Landry says:

    Oh, for the love of God….

    (I’ll be rational after I grieve)

  74. Bizzle says:

    @Buster_ESPN
    Strong reaction so far from other teams: Some execs from other AL East teams believe Yankees just made an incredible trade.

    I think I will take the opinion of multiple team executives over the idiots on this board any day. I agree, GREAT trade for the yanks.

  75. Countryclub says:

    Yanks got campos too…great prospect.

    Buster says other al east teams love this deal for Yanks.

  76. Karl Krawfid says:

    Pineda will end up in the bullpen.

    • whozat says:

      That’s the (non-injury) worst-case scenario, I think. In which case the Yanks lose the trade, but…you have to take risks at some point. This could give the Yanks a dynamite top-two for the next 4 years.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      With Joba and Hughes

  77. Johnny says:

    Please tell me this is an f’ing nightmare.

  78. pat says:

    FWIW Campos had a nasty year in A ball last year 9.4K/9 1.4 BB/9. 19 y/o 6’4″ 195 lbs.

    • Mykey says:

      From what I understand, Seattle fans are not happy about losing him in this deal. High ceiling type guy, he’s just young, so you never know.

  79. David N says:

    I hope that eventually, logic will take over and I will be able to see that this is a fair trade.

    But right now, I’m pissed. I never minded giving up Montero to the Mariners, but we’re getting the wrong pitcher back.

    • The Fallen Phoenix says:

      The Yankees were never getting Felix Hernandez for just Montero. It was always going to be Montero+Banuelos+Betances as a starting point most likely.

      …and at that point, is Pineda much worse? Given performance, age, upside, and team control, you’re getting the absolute maximum value I think you can get out of a pitcher in him.

      • David N says:

        If you look at what the Yanks problem was this past year (and particularly in the DS), it wasn’t pitching.

        Not that means they shouldn’t look to improve pitching, but not at the expense of trading your #1 offensive prospect, especially when you’re getting back someone who doesn’t have much of a track record (and yes, I know that Montero doesn’t either, but that’s where the whole “where is the team weak” question comes in – if the team’s weakness was pitching I’d feel a lot better about this one).

        And I’m aware they probably weren’t going to get Felix for him. So don’t trade him.

        But what’s done is done, so I guess all I can do is wish him the best. Bye, Jesus, hope to see you back here eventually. :(

  80. The Fallen Phoenix says:

    This is, like, impossible to process. Pineda definitely has all the goods: stuff, performance, youth, and team control. If you’re going to approach a one-for-one swap of Montero for any other asset in baseball, can you really do any better than Pineda?

    That said, damn, I was so excited for Jesus Montero. But if he’s going to be traded (and he has been), realistically, who else could he be traded for? Maybe Matt Moore, if the Rays were not in the AL East?

  81. joe says:

    It hasn’t been said, so ill say it. The ninja strikes again. This must be cashman. This is his m.o.

  82. Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My heart is broken tonight.

  83. Rainbow Connection says:

    I approve.

  84. Nathan says:

    I think the other AL East teams love the deal for the Yankees so they won’t have to face baby bull Montero anymore.

    Meh, we’ll see. If anything it moves everyone down a peg on the rotation.

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    Garcia
    Burnett/Hughes

    I guess this takes them out of Oswalt/Kuroda/Jackson.

  85. waka flocka says:

    Curry is calling this a Cashman move. stop blaming ownership because you’re in love with Cash.

    • Robert says:

      Curry works for the Yankees of course he is going to put a positive spin on this.

    • whozat says:

      Trading a (possibly) very good hitter with 6 yrs of control who might be stuck at DH forever, for a (possibly) very good starter with five years of control with a chance of regressing into a power reliever.

      And it happened out of nowhere. It definitely has a Cashman feel to it, and that’s not a bad thing. Taking emotion out of it, I think this is a fair trade. Cash absolutely rolled the dice, but I think this is something that makes sense.

      • Craig Maduro says:

        Not a chance Pineda ends up in the bullpen without some sort of injury forcing him there. The Yanks didn’t trade one of the top prospects in baseball to add a fifth option to the ‘pen.

    • Steve says:

      You aren’t playing by the rules. It’s only Cashman if Pineda does good. Otherwise it was that scoundrel Randy Levine

  86. jake says:

    My GOD, I hate this deal. Cashman=Judas!!!!!

    Somewhere when I’m sane, I might be ok with this deal, but dealing Montero is just sad right now.

  87. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    sad to see Montero go…wanted to see what he would do in pinstripes but I can admire from afar.

    Yanks problem for years has been pitching…they never seem to have enough. Now they are set for awhile and younger….and they have youth coming up through. This takes pressure off the prospects so they can focus on developing. In one year, no more Freddy, in two years no more AJ and we are then left with a roation of

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    Hughes
    ManBan

    me likey!!

  88. Bon Scott says:

    Time to fit Prince for his large pinstripes!

    • Joe says:

      I don’t know about fielder, but there’s another deal coming from somewhere

      • Craig Maduro says:

        I agree. Prince would be nice, but I don’t like the chances. I saw Montero as the bridge between Teix/Granderson/Cano and the next wave of offense. I’ll be curious to see if the Yanks try to “construct” a new one.

  89. teddy says:

    who needs jesus montero when you have nunez

  90. Rainbow Connection says:

    2013:
    CC
    Hamels
    Pineda
    Nova
    Killer B

    I’ll take that.

  91. Plank says:

    What is the Mariners’ motivation here? They get rid of a young cost controlled starter and a decent prospect with a similar profile. They pick up 2 young players. They got worse in pitching now and in the future for an upgrade at DH/C. Are they buyers?

  92. CS Yankee says:

    Oswalt available for 8M$, Kuroda available for a couple more…
    and they trade a power bat & young arm for a 1st year starter that has mostly pitch in big yards, hmm?

    Doesn’t make sense, Arod & Teix are fading and expensive and quite a few thought Noesi would turn out better than Nova. If Jesus turns out to be serviceable behind the dish while cleaning the plate this could be the worst trade in Yankee history. BTW, I’ve been middle ground with Jesus, but to not trade him for a sure thing is just piissing on yourself (farm). I would hate to be in player development for them only to see my work sold off on every whim.

  93. Bo Knows says:

    I love Montero, but this is trade I’d do in a f’n heartbeat…Yanks get an ace in the making mariners get a big bat.

    damn I’m happy

    Don’t worry jesus we’ll meet….again in free agency

  94. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    it could be worse…the big headlines in boston today are:

    1. Varitek is getting invited back to camp
    2. Wakefield is waiting for his offer

  95. Cy Pettitte says:

    Yankees get Kuroda too

    what in the hell?

  96. DM says:

    Looks good to me. They sold high. Montero didn’t fit the scheme; he has no position. And you don’t keep players based on a few ABs in Sept. I think they had this in mind the whole time. Russell Martin is the catcher — and the DH spot isn’t nearly a full-time gig on this team of veteran players.

    • Rainbow Connection says:

      I feel the A-Rod contract bought Montero’s ticket out of town.

      • Joey from Jersey says:

        That certainly is part of it. A lot more room on this team in the next few years for a potential top shelf pitcher than a potential top shelf bat. Also, a lot easier to find a cheap and productive DH than a cheapnhigh end starting pitcher.

  97. The Fallen Phoenix says:

    The amount of underselling for Pineda in this thread is comical. Dude had a K/9 over nine while walking less than 3 in his first full-year as a major-league starting pitcher. As a 22-year-old. With a huge arm. And he was a top-15 prospect just last year, so it’s not like he came out of nowhere (he was right behind Matt Moore).

    • Need Pitching says:

      absolutley

      It seems like a reasonably fair trade to me, but its always difficult to give up homegrown talent with high expectations

    • Rookie says:

      But he had a very ugly Home/Away split in his only full year in the majors — with a 3.03 ERA in cavernous Safeco Field and a 4.40 ERA elsewhere. And he got schooled by Boston and the Yankees with a 14.54 and 5.40 ERA against them (SSS warning) and a 5.42 ERA against teams with a .500+ winning percentage.

      Looks iffy to me, but Cashman and his crew are more likely to know what they’re doing than I am.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        but Cashman and his crew are more likely to know what they’re doing than I am.

        —————————–

        When it comes to pitching they are clueless so they don’t get the they know more than me meme.

  98. Carl says:

    And now they get Kuroda too. With Pineda. Holy fucking shit.

  99. Mister Delaware says:

    Taking a step back, if we traded a guy who established himself as a #2 with #1 potential for a near certain DH, wouldn’t we lose our minds?

    • Bizzle says:

      THANK YOU…..somebody with some common sense around here.

    • Bo Doesn't Know but is excited as F#$^k! says:

      Love Montero, but this is the deal we as yankee fans should love to see we got the young cost controlled monster, and a very good pitching prospect that can become another monster ready for the rotation in two-three years.

      the yanks are rapidly solving a problem we’ve had for the past decade…true topside pitching

      CC, Pineda, Nova, Hughes, Burnett with Banuelos and Betances maturing hopefully to the point of being able to take two rotation spots early next year, we are set for the next decade with the rotation.

    • Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

      I’m waiting to see the pitcher who established himself as a “#2.” All I see is the team acquiring a guy with a year’s experience.

      It’s youth for youth. Both teams may wind up winning. One may wind up really regretting this. For everyone’s sake, I’d rather see both teams come out winning here.

      • Mister Delaware says:

        His 2011 established himself as a capable #2. He can regress from that. Where he stands right now is proven #2 results and stuff.

  100. randym says:

    The talking heads all seem to think this a great deal for the Yanks.

    I still hate it. I like Montero, dammit.

  101. BLAKE says:

    CC PINEDA KURODA NOVA FREDDY/AJ/HUGHES…I REALLY LIKE THIS..JESUS WHO??

  102. Rainbow Connection says:

    WOW.

  103. Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

    Michael Pineda, if you don’t anchor this rotation for the next five years, I will break both your legs. Welcome to NY.

    Fuck it. Sign Fielder.

  104. Plank says:

    King George would only be upset that they didn’t spread these moves out so they could dominate the back pages longer.

  105. whitey says:

    I don’t like losing Jesus or Hector, but Pineda was lights out till he tired later in the year. I don’t know much about the other guy coming over.

  106. JM says:

    CC Kuroda Pineda Nova Burnett/Garcia/Hughes… Not bad

  107. Mister Delaware says:

    “Was told SEA wanted Nova instead of Noesi but Yanks wouldn’t give. SEA eventually agreed on Noesi.”

    I want to go on record saying we’re going to wish we’d given Nova instead in a couple years.

    • randym says:

      Figures.

      I know I’m wishing traded we Joba or Hughes instead of IPK.

      • Mister Delaware says:

        No, opposite of figures, IPK was the obvious worst talent of those three at the time. This time Nova is proven, I just like Noesi’s stuff better. I’m the early minority, not the annoying second guesser.

  108. Ghost says:

    Good trade!

    Montero Has a stud bat but no position so no defensive value, and Pineda is a Stud pitcher with only two pitches. Campos is essentially a younger Noesi with some more upside perhaps. The deal is incredibly fair for both sides and it plugs a big need for both teams.

    We’ve been following Montero since he was 16 back in ’06. Its a very bittersweet moment to see him go but its been great to see him develop into the player he has. Hope he mashes in Seattle and makes us proud!

  109. whozat says:

    …but signing Kuroda too makes it super weird.

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    Kuroda
    Burnett/Hughes/Freddie

    Unless they’re moving Hughes or Burnett in another deal…?

  110. JCYanks says:

    One Word…

    Prince

  111. RaeGun says:

    So can we compare (to some extent) Campos to Arodys (back when he was traded)?

  112. j says:

    Reports that we went hard after Hernandez – offered Banuelos, Betances and Montero. They didn’t even come back with a counteroffer.

    • Reggie C. says:

      Where have you seen this report? That’s an amazing offer … but it does feel “short” simply bc half of every scouting reports peg Betances a future reliever. Mariners werent coughing up Felix for anything less than two sure-fire starters + Montero.

      I wonder if a Banuelos, NOVA, montero package would’ve made a difference …

    • MidlandTX says:

      The Ms already had a glut of young pitchers and MLB-ready pitching prospects. Last thing they needed was to trade their ace for another dicey arm with upside.

      They needed a huge bat for less than Prince would cost and they got it. Both sides’ fans sound pissed off; I think that confirms my feeling that it’s a fair trade.

  113. BigLovin says:

    If this has Cashmans signature on it I will resent him forever. The buzz around Montero hasn’t been matched since DJ came up. And honestly with a bat like Montero has I could bear some poor defense behind the plate or just A DH.

    Any other organization and Montero would have already had 2 years of 1b under his belt…..but oh wait thanks Cashman we get to watch Teixeira pop out to left field 4 times a game for the next 5 years…..AWESOME!!!

    • Chip says:

      Remember in 2009 when we won the WS and Tex was a beast at first? I’ll never complain about that move

    • Craig Maduro says:

      C’mon now. I’m disappointed that Jesus Montero is gone as well, but it’s not Teixeira’s fault.

      • BigLovin says:

        I am not saying it’s Tex’s fault. I am saying its Cashmans fault for Montero being blocked bc he handed out that bonehead contract to Tex. Like many scouts have said before…..in almost every other organization Montero would have been moved to 1b years ago.

    • Guillermo says:

      Exactly! Montero’s bat is too good and should have been mashing with Yankees all of last year. Instead they fall in love with swing for fences on every pitch Martin and trade away only hitter in the system.

  114. pat says:

    Bad boys move in silence.

  115. Mike Myers says:

    WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  116. Hall and Nokes says:

    So if I’m AJ, I’m not getting in a car or stepping into an elevator tonight, right?

  117. Reggie C. says:

    I’m absolutely floored.

    Who saw this coming??? Nobody.

    I will miss Montero, but we root for laundry. The pinstripes have a rotation of CC, pineda, kuroda, nova, and AJ.

    We’re set up for a run at Prince now, and if not, Cashman has set us up for a rotation of :
    CC, Hamels/Greinke, Pineda …. Wow.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I mean a potential future rotation of CC , Hamels/Greinke, and Pineda in the 2012 offseason.

      Anyways, i’ll retract the run at Prince statement. THat doesnt make sense. There are far cheaper options and a platoon option is always on the table so long as Andruw Jones is motivated and handles most of the at-bats.

      • Mke says:

        This is a great trade for the Yanks 22 yr old power pitchers don’t grow on trees guys Montero is a DH and will never have a position Campos is a 19 yr old power pitcher Noesi is replaceable. The Yanks have another move coming. I love this deal and the signing of Kuroda makes it even better. I will be shocked if Hughes remains a Yank very long. Would love to see a deal with the Mets for Wright and move ARod To full time DH

  118. Jamey says:

    I think after you get past the attachment to one of the more hyped Yankee prospects in some time, they DID sorta just acquire one of the more talented young starters in baseball. Montero could turn into Pujols or Cabrera, but let’s face facts this deal was burning for a while just the return changed. They were going to deal him for Cliff Lee whom may or may not have even wanted to stay in New York. He was seemingly a willingly moveable part of a potential deal for Jimenez until Rockies balked at letting him take a physical. There was the hesitation to to play him last year, even when Posada was on the verge of forced retirement. I hate to see him go too, but I’m kind of bowing to the fact that the organization just didn’t seem to think as highly of him as we did. No aces were on the block so they swung him into, again, one of the more talented young starters in baseball. Sure I may spend a lot of nights drinking angrily in the dark if Montero clubs 40 homeruns & drives in 100+ RBI’s next year, but if he was burning such a hole in the team’s pockets I’m glad they were at least able to get a potential future ace for him.

  119. JFED says:

    Anyone who doesn’t love this trade for the Yankees is f’n stupid, Pineda is a 6 FOOT 7 inch monster who could be a younger right handed CC, he’s 22… look at his stats they are unreal and he has control, Montero, whom I like a lot, just doesn’t fit on the Yankees. We don’t need a 22 year old DH, sorry folks we just don’t. Noesi is a reliever at best and Jose Campos is a potential stud pitcher also, read about the players involved before you f’n comment on things you don’t know shit about

    • Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

      No offense dude, but shove it up your ass.

      I hope Pineda does great on the Yanks, but all I see is a guy with one year of MLB experience. Let’s see him do it again. We have the right to feel an emotional connection to our players, especially ones we were looking forward to watching in pinstripes for days to come. Let people go through whatever emotional response they have to go through. We’re all going to be here tomorrow rooting for the team.

    • A-Rod's Hip says:

      +100000000000

      the only people complaining are doing so out of emotion, and aren’t thinking rationally

      i love Montero just as much as any Yankee fan has who’s watched him develop since day zero. but the reality of who he is and what he is as a player is what it is folks.

    • TCMiller30 says:

      Noesi a reliever at best? Really? I’m not a huge follower of his as many seem to be, but calling him a reliever AT BEST is a pretty huge stretch, especially when you say the 19 year old is a potential stud pitcher as if that’s the surest thing in the world..

    • Craig Maduro says:

      He’s actually 6’5″. And I could put together a Hall of Shame of tall pitchers so I’d hone your scouting report construction before calling other people “f’n stupid”.

  120. nydhgod says:

    trade jesus on friday the 13th??/ they better sign prince to dh now eh this is killing me

    • Jamey says:

      Unless A-Rod & Jeter can turn back the clock a few years I don’t know that Hal will okay a deal as fat as the one Prince will command to have to sit him 20 or more games. He can play 1st, but then they’re sitting Tex & his big contract too. About the only way they’re signing Prince is if Tex suddenly decide he wants to/can play RF. So, no.

  121. dennis says:

    Dont like a giving up Montero. Pineda faded in the second half after teams saw him again. our offense was the reason we lost in the playoffs and with the aging lineup he was the one bright spot, now we have to wait at least 3 years to see if Sanchez will be montero. Will cheer for u jesus every time you come to town and destroy the yankees ala cabrera.

  122. Mike Myers says:

    is it april 1st? Arod to DH? whats going on?

  123. Karl says:

    4.40 road ERA and 5.12 ERA post all-star break.

  124. Operation Slade says:

    My two favorite prospects gone…I like Pineda but no way in hell is this a good trade for the Yankees, no way!

  125. Joseph Cecala says:

    Dudes I love Montero as much as all of you, but you always make this trade. Pitchers are way harder to come by than power bats. We didn’t get fleeced at all this is one of the most fair trades if not we won it.

    • A-Rod's Hip says:

      Especially power pats that are positionless.

    • Nefarious says:

      This bears repeating. You can get a power bat alot easier then a power arm these days. I’ll miss Montero and dream of what might have been but I’t not like we don’t have a few other stud catching prospects.

  126. Kulish says:

    Completely stupid move.

  127. bwolfsohn says:

    I just saw the Kuroda confirmation.. AJ or hughes has got to be going away…

    Hughes to the bullpen probably

  128. Stratman9652 says:

    I’ll take this over gutting the farm for Danks any day.

  129. Mike Myers says:

    Sheeeeeeeeeeeet.

    this website is about to explode!

  130. BigLovin says:

    So I guess Pineda or Kuroda will be the ones who will deliver that clutch hit in the playoffs and actually be able to protect Cano in the lineup right?

  131. Chip says:

    I’m still processing this but a few thoughts:

    Pineda is going to have a hard time being a fly ball pitcher in Yankee Stadium. The nice thing is, he does have a changeup that was actually above average and he’s only 22 so he could develop that pitch a bit more and suddenly enter beast mode.

    I would not at all be surprised to see Garcia put in the bullpen now. He’ll be pissed but it just makes sense. Now that Hughes looks like he doesn’t have a spot, maybe he goes down to AAA to start the year? Noesi just opened up a spot in their rotation. Sure that leaves AJ as your number 5 but it also allows you the ability to move him into the bullpen for 2013 if you can’t get rid of him.

    I’m super upset about losing Montero but can get over it. I’m actually more upset about losing Noesi than I thought I would be. I think he has a chance to be a really decent number 3ish starter in the majors. That being said, it’s nice to see us get another high impact arm that isn’t in AAA already. If you look at the system, we’re a bit top heavy right now outside of Marshall so this could balance us out a bit. And really, we traded from a position of strength. We just have to cross our fingers now that Sanchez has a big season and lets us forget about Montero (who will be a FA in only 6 seasons!)

    • CP says:

      Pineda is going to have a hard time being a fly ball pitcher in Yankee Stadium.

      That was my original opinion, but I’m not sure that he’s truly a fly ball pitcher.

      In the minors, he was consistently below the league average for FB% – generally sitting between 30-35% fly balls:

      http://mlsplits.drivelinebaseb.....nfo/501381

      This year, he started off giving up a ton of fly balls, but by the end of the season he had dropped back to a more ‘normal’ FB%:

      http://www.fangraphs.com/graph.....;type=full

      The bottom line being that I think the high fly ball rate at the start of the season makes him look worse than he really is.

  132. Dale Mohorcic says:

    Rumors that Nova is involved.

    http://prospectinsider.com/vie.....r-montero/

  133. Mike Myers says:

    you guys should check the marieners blog site…they are just as pissed…hahah. guess its even.

    • Reggie C. says:

      Which blog site? Can you provide a link? Thanks.

      I imagine Mariners fans think Montero an “overrated” prospect given his one-dimensional game. Oh well … Montero will at least now teach Smoak how to hit properly.

  134. Harris says:

    I’m hoping they sign Johnny Damon and then bring back Posada. Damon would be the starting DH with Posada playing 2 or so games a week. Posada said he’s retiring, but it looks like they now have a role for him on this team.

  135. Guns of Navarone says:

    Noesi is expendable in this sort of trade and Montero simply didn’t have a position with the Yankees with the emergence of Martin. There is still a lot to hope for with Romine and Sanchez at catcher in the future.

    But you can’t argue that there are some warning signs that Pineda probably won’t duplicate his success at Yankee Stadium. There’s a lot of upside left with him and plenty to dream about.

    If Pineda progresses at all and stays healthy, and one or two of Banuelos/Betances/Hughes (assuming Hughes gets a crack at the rotation again in the future) hit close to their ceilings, the Yankees could have the best rotation in the AL in two or three years.

  136. Improvident Lackwit says:

    Initial reaction: disappointed. I think Pineda can be a top of rotation pitcher, but it’s disappointing that the Yankees have now given up on 2 of their top prospects (Austin Jackson being the other, though that is more understandable as he’s shown no development of power and Granderson has been a stud).

  137. Chas131 says:

    This is a good trade for the Yankees. The thing to do was acquire more young high end pitching without giving up banuelos. done. I will miss the Jesus but he is a first baseman and we have one. Get over it. Now we can develop a 3rd baseman or SS and have some place to bat the old farts.

  138. forensic says:

    I have no problem with Montero being traded because I had no faith in Girardi using him, but geez, you couldn’t get anything better than pineda???

    And apparently a utility infielder with five years of control is too much for cliff lee but a starting pitcher with 5 years of control is fine for Michael pineda.

    Everyone still think jack z is an idiot? He got both guys he wanted now and only for the price of pineda.

    • Guns of Navarone says:

      “He got both guys he wanted now and only for the price of pineda.”

      He traded Cliff Lee AND Micheal Pineda for Justin Smoak and Jesus Montero.

      Not the best returns if you ask me.

      • forensic says:

        And Hector Noesi.

        That’s something like 15 years of control of 2 top offensive prospects and 1 topish pitching prospect for 5 year of 1 pitching prospect (and 3 months of Lee if you insist). He even got Noesi over Nunez which is certainly an upgrade on potential.

        Plenty good returns if you ask me.

  139. Ted Nelson says:

    I was so happy with no activity… This is exactly why.

    Sure Pineda is promising, but I have a feeling that we will remember today as the end of the Yankee dynasty.

    • Plank says:

      It’s good to see no one is jumping to extremes.

    • Need Pitching says:

      what dynasty??? they’ve won one championship in the past 11 years. That’s not a dynasty.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        The dynasty where they make the playoffs every season. That is extremely impressive whether spoiled Yankeea fans realize it or not.
        Pitchers are far more volatile than hitters. The Yankees just traded a potential once in a generation bat for a potential front end starter… And threw in a potential front end starter in Noesi to boot

        • Need Pitching says:

          “And threw in a potential front end starter in Noesi to boot”

          that’s a bit much, don’t you think? Noesi projects as a #3-5 starter (Campos, on the other hand, apparently has front end potential)

          oh, and 2008 says hi

        • Plank says:

          Why do you think Noesi is a potential front end starter? Have you read any scouting reports or statistical profiles that give you that impression, or is that just blind homerism?

        • CMP says:

          Yeah trading a DH for a front of the rotation starter age 22 under control for 5 years is a tragedy.

        • DM says:

          I guess Montero is the reason they’ve made the playoffs all these years — or was it PITCHING.

          And for somehow who killed Cahill and Gonzalez, you have a bizarrely high opinion of Noesi (who’s the same age or older than all of them, with none of the track record). You like to pick apart the stats. Do that with Noesi and tell me how that spells “potential front end starter” more than those other names that you dismissed.

        • tyrone sharpton says:

          you, boy, are a moron. they’ll make the playoffs, i guarantee it

    • Yankonymous says:

      Or the beginning of the next…

    • TinoBambino24 says:

      I kind of sorta agree with you, Ted. I was very content with the quiet offseason. Then this happens and now I got the “oh shit” jitters shaking through my body.

    • nsalem says:

      Emotionally I hate it also. Logically it maybe what we need. FO apparently felt there was no defensive position for him and we couldn’t afford to have him locked down in the DH and depriving everyone else of rest. I will miss Montero and think he will be a great offensive force, but we have really improved our staff in one night and my thoughts are already in 2013 with a potential staff of CC Hamels Pineda Nova and a liong line of solid prospects to compete for the 5 spot. We have a great bullpen and we still have a solid offensive. It is disappointing but we were great ithout him and we really did improve our staff tonight. doesn’t feel like the end to me. be patient wait and see.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        What they need in the short term… But this wa a move with HUGE long term implications. Hitters are far less volatile than pitchers, and the Yankeea may have just traded the best young bat in baseball

        • Need Pitching says:

          and they may have acquired 5 years of a young ace

          • scooter says:

            … AND a guy (Campos) Jim Callis says now ranks as the #5 Yankee prospect:
            http://twitter.com/#!/jimcalli.....6461256704

            As Reggie said earlier, you have to give up something to get something. We’ve all followed Montero since he signed – and after a cup of coffee last summer, he’s traded away.

            Pineda simply pooped out in the 2nd half of the season. He’s just about to turn 23. There’s a lot to like here in the package coming back.

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            Pineda is an ace now?

            • Need Pitching says:

              no, I said he may be. He does have that kind of upside, though I don’t think he will be. I expect he’ll settle in as a strong #2. I was responding to him saying “and the Yankeea may have just traded the best young bat in baseball” Montero may be the best young bat, he may not be. Pineda may become an ace, he may not. Both players have huge potential.

            • Esteban says:

              They may have acquired 5 years of a young ace.

        • nsalem says:

          No argument about both your points (Montero’s future and the risk involved with young pitchers). However in most cases it is pitching that does bring home the rings and if Pineda reaches his potential it maybe what the Yankee’s need more than the great offensive force that we believed Montero MAY become. There’s no doubt that this is a very risky move. Only time will tell.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            There is a ton of doubt pitching brings home rings more than hitting

            • nsalem says:

              I’m of the belief that it was our great pitching (in the regular season and especially the playoffs) that was the Yankees greatest attribute in the late 90′s. Besides this year solid pitching was also a key ingredient for most World Series winners in this century especially 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2010 those 4 winners were especially offensively challenged. Will just have to see how this plays out. Wouldn’t be shocked to see another bat coming our way. Long evening I’m out. Happy and Healthy New Years to you Ted

    • CMP says:

      Are you nuts? What “dynasty” are you talking about? 1 WS in 10 years is a dynasty?

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Making the playoffs every year but one since what 1995 is a dynasty. Yes. Are you nuts to say it isn’t? This is an historical era for the Yankees. An incredible era to have been a Yankee fan. We are extremely lucky

        • CMP says:

          Check your definition of dynasty. 1 WS in 11 years is FAR from a dynasty.

          • Kiko Jones says:

            5 WS Championships, 7 AL pennants and a post season appearance every year but one since 1996. Ask the old timers who were fans of the 1964-1975 or think back to the ’80s to early ’90s teams and get back to us.

            • Need Pitching says:

              dynasty ended after 2003 really. 1996-2003, playoffs every year 4 WS, 6 pennants
              2004-2011, 1 WS, 1 pennant, 1 missed playoffs. Playoffs in 7 of 8 years is still great, obviously, but that period doesn’t rise to the level of dynasty. Not complaining about the performance, but it wasn’t dynasty level.

        • DM says:

          Yes — and what does Montero — with no position — leaving have to do with that?? His departure ends a dynasty that he didn’t contribute to??? Absurd.

        • Need Pitching says:

          “Making the playoffs every year but one since what 1995 is a dynasty”
          No, its a great run of success, but dynasty means championships.
          96-2000 = dynasty
          2001-2011 = great team (not dynasty)

    • DM says:

      “Pineda is promising”

      And a position-less Montero on a team that doesn’t want a full-time DH is somehow more than that? And with less of a big league track record? Montero was always on the block. Cashman did a smart thing. He pulled the trigger while Montero’s defense was hidden, and his few Sept ABs make him look better than he showed in AAA.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Who cares about position? Trading more projected production for less is a bad more

        • Pasqua says:

          Disagree. You have to care about position with guys like A-Rod and Jeter still around. And, no matter who is projected to do what, there are no guarantees. Think of it from the SEA side…they just traded a potential front-end of the rotation arm for a nearly-certain DH. Could Montero be great? Yes, and I hope he is for his sake. Could Pineda be great? Yes, and I hope he is for his AND our sake.

          Like Mike said above, this seems like a fair trade. Now we have to wait and see with Pineda…just like we would have had to wait and see with Montero.

        • Need Pitching says:

          what are you talking about? what projected production? If Montero is a DH or lousy defender, it absolutely impacts his overall value. It’s much easier to find a bat who can DH than to find a top end starter.

        • DM says:

          Well, don’t you need to play to produce? And I’m sure you’ll hear Cashman mention Martin as well as the lack of full-time ABs available at DH aspect of this when he talks about the deal. Girardi rotates the regulars into the DH hole now. That will only increase with A-Rod and Jeter — and they both hit right-handed like Montero. And with Russell Martin as your number one, where does all this production show up? Easy — in Seattle, where they can DH as much as they want.

      • A-Rod's Hip says:

        ^^winner

    • Ted Nelson says:

      This is my opinion. I do not like the trade. If you like it, great. I’m done arguing with people who want to tel me my opinion is wrong

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        c’mon Ted..where’s the fire in your belly?? you are never done arguing with people who tell you your opinion is wrong.

      • DM says:

        Calm down. It’s not like you jump on everyone else’s opinions that clash with yours on this board. Never you, right? Right. LOL.

  140. mustang says:

    I was calling this for a while now I didn’t know who they were going to trade him for, but it was just a matter of time. No matter how great his bat is if the Yankees believe that Montero can’t catch everyday there is no spot for him on the Yankees. They traded strength for a weakness plain and simple its what you do with prospects.

    WELL DONE!!!!

  141. Montero Misses NY says:

    Montero had the chance to be the “next true yankee” . He could have been part of the next big 2, 3 4 or whatever. Thats what hurts. Now I wonder what they will do with the lineup. Does this bring Prince into the mix? Might the Yankees go after Damon now on a 1 year 3 or 4 mill deal?

    Things just got interesting, and at a good time too. This close to spring training, people are getting antsy to get contracts.

  142. Buck says:

    Where the hell is this team going to get offense? ARod, Tex and Jeter are in serious decline. I dont see Granderson repeating last season’s numbers.

    Cash must have a short term memory, because it was the Yankee bats that disappeared in the playoffs.

    Terrible, terrible trade.

    • Chip says:

      You are away that you’re dealing with small sample sizes and that they had probably the second best offense in the game last season right? Dominant pitching wins in the postseason if you ask me.

    • Need Pitching says:

      second best offense in baseball last year without Montero… yeah where the hell are they going to get offense?

      • Buck says:

        Yeah, you’re right – ARod, Tex and Jeter’s numbers have been improving the last 3 yrs – oh , wait, what?

        • Chip says:

          They haven’t but Cano and Granderson’s numbers have

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            And they’ll carry the offense again until it fails in the PS.

            • Esteban says:

              The eternal optimist. Montero is a sure fire HOFer that will never make an out in the playoffs.

              • dennis says:

                we don’t know that but what we do know is nick swisher is an auto out. and besides Cano this team gets owned in the playoffs.

              • The Big City of Dreams says:

                Just like now Pineda is a no doubt number 2 despite his second half struggles.

                • Need Pitching says:

                  That’s the whole point. Nothing is guaranteed with either Montero or Pineda. Montero is a hitter with tremendous upside. Pineda is a pitcher with tremendous upside. How this trade ultimately is judged will be determined by which player taps into more of their upside.

                  • The Big City of Dreams says:

                    I think the safer bet is Montero. Not saying he’s HOF bound but the kid will rake no one disputes that. Pineda might end up in the pen

                    • Need Pitching says:

                      Pineda in the pen is pretty much worse case scenario barring significant injuries. He’s probably as likely to end up an ace as he is to end up not being a viable starter. It’s still possible Montero just ends up as a good to very good instead of an elite hitter. I agree Montero is probably a safer bet, but considering it is much more difficult to find a top end starter than a DH who can hit, I think the risk is worth it. Hopefully it works out.

                    • The Big City of Dreams says:

                      Hopefully or Cashman will get killed for it and rightfully so.

        • Need Pitching says:

          they don’t have to improve for the Yankees offense to be very good, they just can’t fall off a cliff

          They were the second best offense despite ARod, Tex and Jeter
          Tex is young enough to bounce back. I’m not saying there aren’t long term concerns about the Yankee offense, but their is no reason to think they will be any worse than a top 4 offense for 2012 (which with their improved rotation and strong bullpen, is plenty good to get to the playoffs again)

          • Reggie C. says:

            I agree with this post.

            However should Teixiera continue to decline in 2012 at the plate then lets re-visit the part where NYY fans shouldnt be concerned. Teixeira is young and seemingly healthy enough to return to 2009 levels. Fingers Crossed.

  143. billbybob says:

    Count me in the minority, but I like the deal. Considering that the Reds had to give up four players to Mat Latos, I think the Yanks paid a fair price.

  144. Buck says:

    This trade will haunt this team.

  145. TinoBambino24 says:

    I’m shocked about this move. We’ve got aging players in their mid-30s barely hanging on to whatever magic they still have. Montero would’ve been a nice compilment to Martin on his off days. I don’t see the logic of trading him for a FLYBALL pitcher in a hitter friendly Yankee Stadium. Geez, a Little Leaguer can belt one over the 314 ft. sign. But seriously, I would’ve expected something better in exchange for the Monty Python. I don’t know, but, I guess I’m like the many people that are on this site: I love homegrown players. They have a special mystique and ambience to their names. Jeter, Posada, Williams, Tino; that’s how we rolled in the 1990s. I would’ve expected at least King Felix and then a couple of good minor leaguers in exchange for Monty. He’s a once in-a-while great hitter, and in the Yankees minor league system; they come very rarely. I don’t guys, I just don’t know…

  146. CJ says:

    I’m starting to worry about. Monteroisdinero..did you change your name?

    Weren’t there some suggesting montero for Latos? I like Pineda better than Latos.

    • Chip says:

      You know what, that’s exactly what I thought.

      I think Latos would have been either the same or more expensive to get yet he’s probably about the same equivalent of a pitcher. The difference is, he doesn’t have 5 years of control left. Also, Pineda has some time to adjust to the league and get even better if he can sharpen up his command more.

  147. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Im crying

  148. forensic says:

    Also, I wonder how many more spots they can sacrifice potential young offense with most of the team getting very old and already punting some offense at C and LF, not to mention whoever replaces the guys who will be DHing now.

    But it’s ok, I’m sure pined a and his extremely impressive 103OPS+ were no product of his home stadium. Its not like he had almost a 4.5 era on the road.

    It just keeps getting better…

    • forensic says:

      Sorry, ERA+ obviously, not ops. Pined a is iPad enjoying it’s autocorrect…

    • Need Pitching says:

      and it’s not like he had a 3.37 K/BB ratio, 0.86 HR/9, 3.26 FIP and 3.55 xFIP on the road either (compared to 2.93, 1.05, 3.62, and 3.51 at home)

      and it’s not like he was pitching in his first major league season at only 22 years old

      • forensic says:

        I get that people here love FIP, when it fits their argument. But I’ll care more about it when the team joins the theoretical major leagues. Until then, I’ll care more about what actually happened on the field, not what may have or could have happened.

        • Need Pitching says:

          what is most important is what is likely to happen going forward. The numbers I cited are just an indication that he could be capable of pitching very well on the road, and his numbers aren’t completely a product of pitching at Safeco. As far as what actually happened on the field, he actually had a 3.37 K/BB ratio on the road, and he actually gave up 0.86 HR/9 innings on the road. He actually had a lower LD% and higher GB% on the road than at home, while actually maintaining a nearly identical FB%. All of that actually happened on the field, and all of that actually happened in the actual Major Leagues, not the theoretical major leagues. Your grasping at ERA as if it is the one and only valid measure of how a pitcher pitched. It’s not.

        • thenamestsam says:

          Yeah, that’s not the point of FIP. What actually happened has nothing to do with it. FIP,is about isolating the part of what actually happened that the pitcher actually controls. You can agree with it or not, but at least understand it first.

          • forensic says:

            For both, I don’t buy that pitchers have no control over # of hits. I just don’t agree with the whole concept of choosing to ignore things that actually happened.

            • Need Pitching says:

              not ignoring ERA, adding more information to help judge if that poor road ERA is more likely to be an aberration or a sign of bad things to come. By focusing only on ERA, you are ignoring a lot of things that actually happened.

  149. Pasqua says:

    Please don’t be a fash-in-the-pan. Please don’t be a fash-in-the-pan. Please don’t be a fash-in-the-pan. Please don’t be a fash-in-the-pan.

  150. A-Rod's Hip says:

    The Yankee homers need to take their bias for Montero out of the equation and look at this rationally.

    As many others have already mentioned. The guy didn’t have a clear cut future at a position AS A YANKEE. He just didn’t. Blame him for that. Not the Yankees. They did the right thing after analyzing the scenario.

    To be able to get a 6’7 monster manchild at 23 years old with the ceiling of an Ace #1 starter for a young, promising, glorified DH is a move that you make 10 times out of 10.

  151. Brad V says:

    This is a good trade for the Yankees. Period.

  152. Coolerking101 says:

    I’m still digesting….though what scares me more than anything is Pineda’s 5+ ERA from Jul-Sept.

    • Rookie says:

      That scares you more than his 4.40 ERA away from Spacious Safeco?

    • Bo Knows says:

      his peripherals were actually better than his start, his gb% was up into the mid 40% range for the final three months, his excellent walk rate stayed steady throughout, his BABIP was good, the only problem was strangely high homer rate (although he only gave up 10 homers in the last 3 months)and a low LOB%

    • Rookie says:

      That scares you more than his 5.42 ERA against teams with a .500+ winning percentage?

      • Coolerking101 says:

        Sure. He’s a rookie. I expect him to get eaten up by the big dawgs. However, when you see a guy fading for 3 straight months, you start to worry that the league figured him out and that he can’t adjust back.

  153. Donny says:

    Let’s assume that the other prospects even out for argument’s sake and we just look at Montero for Pineda If you are the Yankees, you just watched Martin have an excellent season, as verified by all the pitchers claiming what a great receiver and game caller he is. On top of that, you still have him under team control for another year. Even if he leaves after next season, Romine still looks to have more upside defensively than Montero. I don’t think that is even debatable. I think anyone that follows “Down on the Farm” would agree that Sanchez is about 4 years away from being our everyday catcher. So if you use that logic as the basis for evaluating this trade, what did the Yankees really give up? We gave up a guy that put up numbers that are basically his ceiling as a professional. What did he hit? .380? I think his pace would put him at over 40 homers for a season? I’m sorry, but I am in the minority here – Despite the fact that I have been pining for some homegrown talent, you always have to value pitching over hitting. Especially over someone who doesn’t even have a true position. That is just my view though.

  154. TinoBambino24 says:

    And I hope that this Campo kid is worth it…

  155. jon says:

    I cant wait to dave cameron to now gush about how good of a hitter jesus is

  156. dennyneagleshooker says:

    i don’t understand why the mariners kept king felix over pineda.

    king felix would have gotten them 3 more top NY prospects, saved them 20 million plus a year for for a few years. short term, are they going to be any better with felix as opposed to pineda. don’t think so. mariners should have dumped felix.

    i love this move for the yankees though, pineda steps in and immediately will make NY’s 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation formidable for the playoffs.

  157. Troll Hunter says:

    Jack Z F’d us on Lee and now he just royally F’d us again. I’m so ashamed!

    • Foghorn Leghorn says:

      you do realize that this trade never happens if Jack Z accepts the first one.

      And thank God he didn’t b/c Lee would’ve bolted at the end of that off season AND the yanks wouldn’t have diddly to make a deal like this.

    • Jon in CUO says:

      No

  158. FIPster Doofus says:

    This is stunning, and I don’t know if I like it. But I do know that I now want Prince Fielder.

  159. Chip says:

    I just keep thinking this:

    2013 rotation
    CC
    Hamels
    Pineda
    Nova
    Banuelos

    That could be an amazing rotation with three of the guys being prearb and all of them under team control for at least 4 years.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I guess you’re assuming Cashman is able to dump AJ Burnett at some point this off-season or next. After getting Pineda (a potential Cy Young contender in ’12) for Montero (a potential top 3 DH in ’12) , i think Cashman has got the motivation to free up AJ’s rotation spot before the great post-2012 FA season commences.

  160. Pasqua says:

    I am still freaked out, but essentially, there’s no reason to hate this trade, at least on the Montero-for-Pineda side of it. It’s one “uber-high-ceiling” guy with a minimal MLB track record for another. And, WE got the pitcher.

    I’m giving it a tentative thumb’s up.

    • Chip says:

      I think we got the best of the secondary pieces too. I mean from the Yankees perspective they’re giving up a guy who will almost surely be a number 4ish with a ceiling of a 3 for a guy with a ceiling of a number 1B with a chance of being nothing. I think this is the type of return the Yankees need to start getting more often.

  161. Mike says:

    Hate getting rid of Montero, esp for this return.

    This move will haunt CASHman.

  162. Danny says:

    Well … Charleston’s rotation should be interesting. Campos,Mitchell, Morton, Guys from 2011 draft. Thats cool, got a #2 starter too & we signed Kuroda. Now maybe we sign Prince … or Posada comes back. And that Jesus guy, I mean he wasn’t really that special right ? Interesting night ….

  163. Troll Hunter says:

    Now its being reported that the Yankees are sniffing around Carlos Pena to fill Montero’s shoes! (facepalm)

  164. Bedford says:

    Honestly it works.

  165. Dave says:

    will people stop saying “ohh maybe posada will come back”…why on earth would any rational person want him back? and dont say the playoffs, i dont care about a 5 game sample

    • Sayid J. says:

      Just for the sake of being rational, he did hit righties pretty well last year (.814 OPS). Not saying I want him back, but it’s not THAT crazy.

  166. Yankee Homer says:

    What a move. to trade a DH for 5 years of cheap control for a premiere young pitcher is a move you make 7 days a week…you can always find hitters, and as the yankees have show for 8 years, finding pithcing is hard. Add Kuroda to ease the “pains” of moving to the AL East…Cashamn just KILLED it. If I wasnt a dude, Id give him a handjob for his moves today. amazing day for yankees fans.

  167. 45yearyanksfan says:

    haven’t been this sad since the day thurman died……..had a chance to watch a career develop that included fucking lightning in his bat…who cares if he can’t catch….posada couldn’t either, and we won four with him…terrible, terrible day…. you NEVER give up a one day a week guy for an everyday guy

  168. forensic says:

    I know how they’ll solve the rotation log-jam.

    Do the words “His stuff plays up in the pen” mean anything to anyone? He’ll be the best 5th inning guy in baseball.

  169. Tom says:

    And the Yankees fascination with 2 pitch pitchers continues…. while the Ian kennedy’s (and eventually I think Hector Noesi’s) of the world tend to be undervalued, as they don’t have the same “stuff” but have a lot more balance and just need more polish.

    If Pineda doesn’t figure out how to throw a changeup (less than 3% last year), he’s not going to get lefties out and we will see another AJ Burnett, Phil Hughes type guy… he’ll be good so long as his fastball still gets by people. When the league catches up to him he won’t be able to finish people off. On the plus side given his age his fastball shouldn’t be tailing off anytime soon, but a guy throwing >30% sliders is a scary proposition (is his elbow going to hold up throwing that many sliders?)

    Nova looked like he turned the corner when he committed to a 3rd pitch (slider); and I hope this is an eye opener for the Yankees to use the minors as a development system as opposed to a promotion system. I’d like to see Banuelos throwing 25% curveballs for the first 2-3months next year simply to get work on the pitch (even if his #’s fall off a bit). Betances is in the same boat with his changeup.

    I think this is a good short term move for the Yankees, but I would not be stunned if 4 years from now Noesi is as effective a pitcher as Pineda.

    • Chip says:

      Other guys who are primarily two pitch pitchers: Clayton Kershaw, David Price, Alexi Ogando, Mat Latos (I don’t consider sinkers to be different), Ricky Romero

      Also, Pineda had an above average change last year. Give the kid a chance here.

      • Tom says:

        Kershaw was not as extreme as Pineda (~90% FB/slider, 10% other)

        Ogando is a good comp…. and is a problem (would you trade Montero/Noesi for a pitcher like him?)

        Latos throws ~10-12% curveballs and 8% changeups (in addition to two fastballs and a slider); not sure how you even lump him into this comparison.

        Romero throws ~10% curveballs (in addition to 2 fastballs and changeups)

        I’ll give him a chance, but he needs to break the Phil Hughes and AJ Burnett mold (with a slider instead of curve)… it may work for a couple of years but he’s going to need to throw more than 4-5 changeups a game to get out good hitting teams long term. 2 pitch starters do not typically sustain success in the majors no matter how good those 2 pitches are.

        Pitch f/x had him throwing curveballs 2.9% of the time last year; he had a barely above average run value on it (0.28 on a per 100 basis) – with a pitch thrown that infrequently though it’s near impossible to quote effectiveness.

        • Tom says:

          Oops… that last sentence should say 2.9% changeups (not curveballs).

          If he can get that closer to 10%, I think he could become a top tier pitcher (even with just an average change).

          He doesn’t need an above average 3rd pitch but he still needs to throw a 3rd pitch (especially to help against lefty hitters)

  170. CMP says:

    Great day for the Yankees. I hate to see Montero go because I thought he could be another Frank Thomas but the fact is its a lot easier to find a DH than a front line starter and now with Kuroda, the rotation should be a major strength plus the Yankees got to keep Betances, ManBan, Sanchez and Willams.

  171. e mills says:

    don’t forget the yankees have Sanchez in the pipeline!

  172. bonestock94 says:

    I loved and still love Montero, but let’s face it he’s a DH. On the Yankees he’d be one of 3-4 DH’s pretty soon. Pineda is a fucking stud and directly addresses a weakness, while the offense is still a powerhouse.

  173. Greg says:

    Pitching wins championships and to get a young one like Pineda is very interesting

  174. bankers hours says:

    If the Yanks feel Pineda is a legit no. 2 and Montero is only a DH then this trade is good for the Yanks. No. 2 pitchers are more valuable than DH’s. The Yanks also need the DH spot to rotate the aging dinosaurs on the left side of the infield. If they don’t eventually DH Arod and keep playing Jeter the path between short and third will look like the runway at JFK International. I think this opens about 400 at bats for E Nunez.

  175. Pat D says:

    I can’t help but thinking that signing Fielder would be a good move…give him that 6 year with an opt out after 2 or 3 if you want, too.

  176. Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan says:

    I love Montero but I kinda dig this deal.

  177. TinoBambino24 says:

    I like Pineda, he is a good pitcher, but I just don’t see the logic behind this one at all. I understand he has tremendous upside, but so does Montero. Montero imo had the capability to become a part of the next Yankee dynsaty. I just don’t see the logic in this. As a Yankee fan, I am sick to my stomach on this move. Like I said before, if it was Montero, Noesi, Nunez possibly for Felix, Campos and another B prospect, I would say OK. Not Montero, Noesi for a flyball pitcher with upside and a kid that we might not see in 3 years. He might just get traded too. I’m not bashing Cashman for this move, I respect a lot of the moves he makes, even this one. However, I don’t see the logic in this at all. Now, I wonder if the Yankees look at the 2 options at DH: keep the revolving door open for the likes of the AARPs (Jeter, AROD) or sign Prince (which doesn’t make sense to me at this point)

  178. thenamestsam says:

    Clearly shocking. Most unmentioned thing on this board is :

    Cashman’s huge huge balls.

    This is the kind of trade that is going to be remembered for a long time, and when you trade youth for youth, there is always the chance that you get burned…badly. This has the potential to be remembered as one of the worst trades in Yankee history, or one of the best. Either player could realistically turn out to be a complete zero, or a HOF level stud. Neither would shock me for either of them. It’s just insane variance for a trade and GMs rarely make that kind of trade because if this blows up in your face it tarnishes your name forever. For that reason I say:
    Kudos to Cashman for taking the risk given that he (clearly) thought this was right for the team. There are lots of GMs who I suspect wouldn’t do this even if they thought it was the best move just because the risk is too high. Cashman at least showed guts. I’m too emotional and too biased to offer any reaction on the actual trade itself.

  179. Chen Meng Wang says:

    Wow, I read through just about everyone of these comments just because I knew the unintentional humor would be worth every word. Thank you guys, it was. I know everybody here was high on Montero, I was too. However we’ve been talking about how badly we want a young stud number 2 for the Yankees for how long? And with the signing of Kuroda, Pineda slides to the 3 spot in his first year in NY, which is good because of all the pressure that’s going to be on him for replacing Jesus. When I first heard about this I texted my friend back one word “Bullshit” when he texted me the link and it started to settle in I realized how OK I am with this deal. Pitchers aren’t hitting the FA market the way they used to, and the ability we now have to use our DH to give “half days” I’m ok with this trade

    If on the other hand with all the ML level pitching we still have I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t another trade in the works for a 3rd baseman so Alex can DH full time.

    • Dropped Third says:

      This, This, and more of this

    • Dave says:

      thank you! i was def pissed it was Montero, but only because ive invested so much in him the last 3 years.BUT yankee baseball wise, its a great move…I cant think of another pitcher this young with this much upside that we could have gotten basically straight up..and lets face it with the killer B’s coming up, Noesi was never in the yankee rotation plans..

      not to mention, we got this kid on the cheap for what ? the next 4-5 years!! if he blows up, its a steal for us because like you said pitcher like this dont hit the market often

  180. Total Dominication says:

    I think this is good.

  181. Jerome S. says:

    AHHHHHHHHHH
    AHHHHHH
    ok ok.

    Yeah, this is… alright. Of all the realistic trades Cashman could ever swing for Montero, you have to think this is probably the best, right?

  182. Greg says:

    Everyone is also forgetting another point.

    Montero in Safeco.

    That park will rob him of some of his power

  183. Dropped Third says:

    I was pissed at first now, now I’m pretty overjoyed. Montero was a DH, it is not hard to find a bat off the scrap heap that can provide a decent offense at the DH postion, it is however alot harder to find a #2 type pitcher that throws 97mph and is under team control for 5 years. They also get a great high celling arm in campos to add to the 2 B’s and chances are 1 of the 3 stick and reach close to potential. Romine and Sanchez although not as great with the stick as montero, have the ability to actually catch and we have depth at that position.

    This also opens up roster flexibility with aging Arod and aging Jeter to be able to DH once in a while. I really really love this move for the yankees. I LOVED montero but this move makes so much sense i love it. Cashman is a great GM.

  184. Chen Meng Wang says:

    Just did some research on Pineda’s IP… I think it was Verducci who came up with the idea of an increase of no more than 30-40IP over the pitcher’s previous career high? In the Minors his highs were 138.1 in 2008, and 139.1 in 2010. He then went up to 171.1 this season, his first full in the Majors. After having a year of that under his belt, and understanding how to prepare his body for the longer season, I think if anything we will see a small innings boost and an improvement from Pineda this season.

    • Dave says:

      ya..and I think thats why he fell off second half of last year, it was due to the “verducci Effect”. He prob got tired and was overcompensating someway.

  185. Greg says:

    And another point that has come to my attention.

    Offensive support.

    Pineda had to pitch under the pressure of only giving up 1-2 runs a game with an anemic offense behind him. Now, that pressure can be lifted somewhat

  186. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    I wonder what Tebow thinks about this trading of Jesus.

  187. Rod says:

    This is an awesome deal. Cashman owns. Sign Carlos Pena and set up a Jones/ Pena DH rotation.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      Pena smh excuse me while I vomit

      • Need Pitching says:

        Pena makes sense as a platoon DH. He rakes righties .892 OPS, .383 wOBA, 140 wRC+ in 2011, .881/.376/ 133 career. The only Yankee with better numbers vs. RHP last year (Yankee offense was much better vs. LHP than RHP last year) was Granderson (.902/.388/142)

  188. DZ says:

    I think along with a lot of people, when I first heard this deal, I was upset. Now, I’m kind of indifferent. A flyball 2-pitch pitcher isn’t all that appealing for an insane upside bat like Montero, but Pineda also has a ton of upside. Whenever a big time trade is made, you have to look towards how it will affect future moves.

    Does this trade mean they go after Prince this year? And/or, how does this affect what they do next off season in regards to hamels/cain. Lets say they get similar production from Pineda as he performed last year, and same for Nova, and hughes bounces back. Does that eliminate them from going after one of the big pitchers, knowing they have bans/bets looking in? Or, do they go for the safe, guaranteed bet, and make their pretty good rotation one of the best and youngest in the league.

    Imagine in 2013

    CC
    Hamels
    Hughes
    Pineda
    Nova
    Banuelos
    Betances
    Warren
    Phelps

    I know it’s costly, but I think this is the direction you have to go…

  189. Joe D. says:

    Just one man’s opinion:

    Absolutely awesome deal. A “F***ing A” trade, to use the words of Billy Beane.

    I’m surprised at the level of backlash, as I’m firmly in the “excellent move by Cash” camp.

    We’ll be able to tear this one apart in five years, I suppose, to get a better handle on who “won” the deal…

    But for now, given Tex is entrenched at first base, we give up a young stud with no positional value whatsoever for a young stud at a position we desperately needed to bolster. I love it.

  190. dc1874 says:

    Dont worry..Yanks will get back Montero when Mariners cant afford him…and he will be only 28…

  191. Guns of Navarone says:

    Key steps to accepting this trade:

    1. Watch video of Pineda
    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......8;c_id=mlb

    2. Get excited.

  192. RollingWave says:

    uggggh

  193. JMK says:

    It’s funny, when I first heard about this I was abhorred and confused. Montero? For two-pitch Pineda in a pitcher paradise? And Noesi is gone too? What! How could you do this to me, Yankees?

    But then I poured myself a glass of Scotch and really thought about it.

    I’ve long been an unabashed fan of Jesus Montero – the idea of a cost-controlled Frank Thomas or Miguel Cabrera for the better part of a decade is a beautiful thought. But let’s be honest – he doesn’t really fit very well on the team. Could he fit? Sure, with enough force you can shove a square peg in a round hole. Any number of combinations could have gotten him some playing time in the field and maximized his value, but there’s quite a bit in the way of complexities and nuances to any approach they’d employ given the roster construction.

    There’s of course the greater idea, one I believe is the critical takeaway point here – with both Pineda and Montero we’re still dreaming and projecting. At the heart of it – as many others said – we’re dealing with needs and team value. A team built like the Yankees gets more out of a potential (not guaranteed by any stretch) number 1 than a dynamo DH/C combo player.

    Could Montero turn into a hitting machine putting up pinball numbers while Pineda is an inconsistent great-stuff-not-great-results enigma? Oh yeah, don’t kid yourselves. But the opposite is also true. If Montero really can’t even fake defense, his ceiling as a total player is really diminished. Acquiring a DH that would put up 70 percent of what Montero could do is far easier and cheaper than acquiring a top-level (cost controlled!) pitcher. Hitting on this team is simply not an immediate concern, even with Montero’s departure. Yes, core players are aging and declining but there’s still a lot of talent at premium positions.

    I have some lingering concerns about Pineda. Sliders on the elbow worry me; I hope the flyball rate is a fluke, as his minor league numbers suggest is possible; and he can develop and throw a changeup with consistency to at least minimize lefties tagging him? Unknowns, but shit, he’s 22! It’s really unlikely he won’t improve.

    The other trade pieces to me are something of a wash. I like Noesi and see a lot of value in a possible mid-rotation starter. But let’s err on the side of caution and say he’s a #4. The depth the Yankees have leads me to believe several guys could match or better him. As Mike said, cost of doing business.

    But if the reports are to be believed, this Campos kid is a great get: plus-plus stuff with fastball command at his level and (wait for the shocker!) iffy consistency of breaking pitches. Remember the new CBA? Acquiring top-ten talents is far more difficult to do than it was a few months ago. His potential, to me, offsets the probability of Noesi.

    We’re dealing young high-end talent from a position of strength for young high-end talent in a position of weakness. It’s a risk and I’m really disappointed on many levels, but Pineda and Campos simply fits the team better than Montero and Noesi.

    /TLDR
    //more Scotch on the way!

  194. Rainbow Connection says:

    The Yanks get a good, young pitcher AND I don’t have to constantly read corny ‘Jesus’ jokes anymore?
    Win-win!

  195. WarriorHal says:

    Over his final 17 starts, Pineda was 3-8 with an ERA of 4.74. Great. Sounds like the league figured him out.

    Montero will likely be a 40+, 100+ RBI guy for years and years. So what if he’s poor defensively. Posada could barely catch the ball half the time.

    • Rainbow Connection says:

      lol!

    • Need Pitching says:

      interesting how some people here are basing their judgement of this trade by comparing what Montero is projected to do, but not what Pineda is projected to do, instead relying on half of a season as a rookie to make judgements. Both players are still developing and both players have huge potential upside.

      • CJ says:

        True. For example, I would have traded Montero for Matt Moore in a second. Each have the potential to be stars, each comes with risk. Pineda was rated as top stud starter going in to 2011 with a larger MLB sample than the stud power bat Montero.

    • Dave says:

      or..it sounds like a 22 yr old kid, who was getting past his professional innings high of 130 innings or so and was getting tired.

  196. kevin w. says:

    The more i’ve had time to think about this trade, the more it makes sense. Pineda has shown something over a season in the majors and has enormous potential. He has a great pitchers build and is exactly the kind of pitcher we needed to build around. I am as big of a Montero fan as anyone, and I hate it that he won’t be hitting in our line-up. However, pitching is the greater need and Montero really was going to be a burden to fit into the line-up with Teix and A-Rod under contract. I also like Noesi a lot, but he was no more than a 4 starter and we can absorb the loss since we now have about 10 guys who could hold their own in the majors starting. The wild card in Jose Campos. I like him a lot, and at that young with that command, one has to wonder if he could become a better prospect than Betances by the end of this year. If anything, I think he is a better bet to reach his potential than Betances. Regardless, we have three top of the rotation potential pitchers in the minors now and a 23 year old ACE potential pitcher behind CC. It is going to take a while to evaluate this trade, but I think the Yankees have a slight edge in overall potential from this deal, and I think both teams will be happy with this deal in the end.

  197. Hamburger says:

    For a team that badly needed pitching, trading a DH for a potential #1 starter that’s 23 years old is a pretty good deal. I can deal with losing Noesi and I’m intrigued by Campos. Sad to see Montero (and Noesi) go, but I think ultimately it’s a smart move.

    And the Kuroda signing is great.

  198. sciota says:

    stop crying people. Jesus was never more than trade bait. He proved that behind the plate this year. He may turn out to be a great hitter, but that is never worth more than a potential 15 game winner. good trade.

  199. okyankee24 says:

    Okay you guys are a bunch of tools. Right handed power bats are a dime a dozen when you have the funds to go out and replace em. A 22 year old power pitcher with 5 years of control is hard to come by. This guy is better and more proven then the guys in our system everyone is crying for. Everyone of us Yankee fans are hoping for the next coming of homegrown talent so we dont have to hear the go out and buy argument, but lets face it, this is baseball today. The Yanks have to overvalue their prospects because they are big market and as soon as a prospect has a decent year they are the second coming. See Kevin Maas. Good pitching season in the big leagues> good several seasons in the minor leagues. I loved the guy as much as the next but he was a hitter and no more. Young pitching trumps all.

  200. Rich in NJ says:

    Thiis sucks.

  201. JoeyA says:

    If Pineda was a Yankee prospect/rookie pitcher, he would be untouchable in the eyes of RAB blog.

  202. Jeremy says:

    Why make this trade if your planning to sign kuroda for 10 mil? How many pitchers do u need? Doesn’t make sense.

    • Dave says:

      bc you can never have enough pitching AND bc Burnett sucks…Hughes is a GIANT ? and Garcia cant really be expected to reproduce last year or start 30 games

  203. Joe D. says:

    Y’know, I really like Jesus Montero, and I was also absolutely ecstatic about watching him develop, hopefully into a potent middle-of the-order bat.

    That being said, and even understanding the tendency of fans to overhype their prospects, I find myself floored by how crazy people are getting about losing a DH who OPSed 840 over the last two seasons in triple-A.

    Montero is a great prospect — an outstanding prospect, even. But also one who hit for moderate power with mediocre patience the last two seasons, including regressing in his second go-round, the one in which he was supposed to tear AAA a new asshole. Somehow, there’s an assumption Montero has without a doubt proven he’s going to be an absolute beast on offense.

    Michael Pineda thoroughly demolished every minor league level en route to posting 171 innings of number-two starter ball in the majors last season, featuring more Ks than innings pitched, and more than three strikeouts for every walk, and somehow he hasn’t proven anything.

    I’ll make clear that I **fucking love Jesus Montero** one last time. That being said, the Yankees made an excellent deal here, and Cash deserves a ton of credit.

    • Rich in NJ says:

      Impact bats are harder to find than pitchers, especially one who was rushed to the ML and is currently a two pitch pitcher. And if you think the appreciation for Montero is about two weeks, I suggest you find another straw man to knock down.

      • “Impact bats are harder to find than pitchers,”

        What?! There’s an impact bat named Prince Fielder on the open market right now. If Montero is any good the Yankees will sign him to a massive deal when he hits free agency anyway.

        I can’t believe the amount of bitching going on about this trade. As an outsider I think it’s a great move for the Yankees. Montero can’t catch and as a DH his value is limited unless he hits like Miguel Cabrera or a juiced up David Ortiz. Pineda fills a big need for the Yankees and Campos is valuable as a long-term chip. Noesi is easily replaceable, especially now that the Yankees added Kuroda.

        Must be nice having an ownership committed to winning.

        • Rich in NJ says:

          Fielder cost $20+m a year. The discussion is about young cost-controlled players for a team in an austerity phase. Sorry if that wasn’t more clear.

          The idea that the Yankees are going to continue to hand out massive contracts is a fallacy.

          Not only are they spending less money, but as you can see (or should be able to see), teams are locking up great young players.

          Bitching? Nah, it’s called reality. You’re the one bitching.

          Cashman compared him to Cabrera tonight.

          If ownership was committed to winning, at least committed to winning the right way, they wouldn’t have permitted Montero to be traded, unless it was for Kemp or Justin Upton. And they’d spend $100m for Darvish which would have enabled them to keep Montero.

      • Joe D. says:

        Speaking of straw men, who said anything about “two weeks”?

        “Impact bats are harder to find than pitchers”

        Says who? The Yankees had far more of the former than the latter, at least if you mean starting pitchers, which I assume you do. What’s your proof or argument for this point?

        “especially one who was rushed to the ML”

        I don’t know how you can claim that coming off a season in which he posted 9.0+ K/9 and 3.0+ K/BB rates…

        • Rich in NJ says:

          That’s actually misreading of the passage below; it’s late. My bad. The overhyped stuff is still strawman nonsense.

          “That being said, and even understanding the tendency of fans to overhype their prospects, I find myself floored by how crazy people are getting about losing a DH who OPSed 840 over the last two seasons in triple-A.”

          Says reality. Can you get Kemp or Justin Upton or Longoria? No. Where do you get Cabrera-like bats (Cash’s words) who are in their early 20s?

          I can say because it’s the truth. He should have been in AAA mastering a 3rd pitch. Let’s hope the league won’t adjust to him before he does. His second half ERA wasa 5.12.

          • Pat says:

            I just knew you’d be upset with this trade

          • Joe D. says:

            “Says reality. Can you get Kemp or Justin Upton or Longoria? No. Where do you get Cabrera-like bats (Cash’s words) who are in their early 20s?”

            Yeah, and Cash was perfectly comfortable with Bubba Crosby in CF going into 2006 (Cash’s words).

            Cash’s words mean doodley-squat when it comes to his own guys; that’s part of his job. Of course he’s going to say Montero is a Cabrera-like bat when he’s running around trying to trade the guy for Felix Hernandez or Michael Pineda.

            At age 21, Miggy Cabrera was busy playing the field and posting an 880 OPS in a full season in the major leagues with 33 dingers, in a pitcher’s park.

            Jesus Montero will be DHing, and atage 21 managed an 815 OPS in 420 ABs in AAA before his brief (albeit successful) Major League audition.

            I love me some Montero, but there’s a massive difference there, and one that can’t be wishcasted away with a sloppy comparisons.

            Hell, Montero might well wind up hitting like Miguel Cabrera for all we know, but we have no good reason to believe that will be the case.

            You focus on Pineda’s 2011 second-half ERA. This serves to:

            1) Limit the discussion to 58 IP and exclude the previous 436 IP that make up his professional career.

            2) Completely ignore the fact that over 58 innings, ERA is not nearly a reliable indicator of present or future success, especially given that:

            3) Even over the 58 innings that have been cherry-picked, Pineda still had over 9 K/IP and a K:BB ratio over three.

  204. Dale Mohorcic says:

    Not having to hear sterlings lame “Jesus is loose” call is one plus.

    • Rich in NJ says:

      Worse than his French sh!t with Martin?

      Martin, Cervelli, and Romine after being spoiled for 15 with a HoF catcher like Posada. Freakin’ A.

  205. El Duque26 says:

    Now we focus on a3rd Baseman! DW from the Mets or Sandovol from the Giants or Prado from the Braves!

    Lets go Yankees

  206. Dorian says:

    The one name that I haven’t seen ONCE in this thread, who will have a great imPact on how this is viewed in the future…GARY SANCHEZ

  207. billbybob says:

    Sorry folks, but I’d drive Montero to the airport in this deal. The Yanks definitely won this deal…and trading Noesi for Campos is the cherry on top.

  208. Mike HC says:

    I sure hope this works out.

    • Mike HC says:

      Like you say in the post, my initial reaction is that the deal is almost too fair. I only want to rip other teams off, ha.

      • billbybob says:

        Campos for Noesi makes it a win for the Yanks in my book. The Yanks got two potential front line starters in this deal…hard for me to complain.

        • Mike HC says:

          Yea, adding that second pitcher with great stuff is definitely flying under the radar a bit. The shock of dealing Montero is clouding everything right now. But Noesi is a major league ready pitcher, and while he is just surplus for the Yanks right now, he is a legit addition for the Mariners.

  209. Mike HC says:

    Trying to be objective here because I was becoming a huge Montero fan. I actually checked the date twice to make sure it wasn’t April’s fools day or something like that.

    I guess I am a big Pineda fan now, ha. The guy is a cost controlled young ace who throws flames, maybe the most valuable piece in today’s game, and we got a second high level pitcher back too. Giving up Noesi was meaningless considering all the pitching surplus we now have.

    CC
    Pineda
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Garcia

    Mo
    Soriano
    Hughes
    Joba
    Robertson

    You know our lineup is going to be stacked. The league could be in trouble this year if things fall right.

  210. Rob LaDuca says:

    I think this deal was more urgent for Cashman given the upcoming change in playoff format. As previously constituted the Yankee rotation was probably good enough for the team to make one of the two wild card slots, but not a mortal lock to be AL East Division winners. Having Pineda (and Kuroda) on board increases the chances of avoiding the one-game complete-crapshoot wild card ‘play in’ Russian Roulette affair in 2012. Also, in the event that they do end up with one of the wild card slots in upcoming years, and have to burn CC in the play-in game, they have another near ace to go in Game 1 of the ALDS.

    Cashman’s also thinking long term, needing to free up the DH slot for A-Rod (for whom the A is shortly going to mean ‘Arthritis’), getting the payroll under $189M by 2014, and stockpiling 11 years of control of very high-ceiling pitching.

  211. Jose M. Vazquez.. says:

    No trade is final until the last chapter is written and the book is closed. That said, I’ll wager that Noesi, who is not that far from Pineda in talent, will pitch better for Seattle than Pineda will for N.Y. And Montero was gift to the Seattle GM who has been so gracious with us in the past. If I lose, I will eat my 1927 replica cap. Now we are more vulnerable to left handed pitching and a catcher who cannot hir his weight and no young bats in the horizon.

    • Jose M. Vazquez.. says:

      What’s done is done. I will have no recourse than to pull for Pineda and hope that he pitches according to last season’s first half and not the second.

  212. Monteroidinero says:

    I am Cashman.

  213. DZ says:

    I think along with a lot of people, when I first heard this deal, I was upset. Now, I’m kind of indifferent. A flyball 2-pitch pitcher isn’t all that appealing for an insane upside bat like Montero, but Pineda also has a ton of upside. Whenever a big time trade is made, you have to look towards how it will affect future moves.
    Does this trade mean they go after Prince this year? And/or, how does this affect what they do next off season in regards to hamels/cain. Lets say they get similar production from Pineda as he performed last year, and same for Nova, and hughes bounces back. Does that eliminate them from going after one of the big pitchers, knowing they have bans/bets looking in? Or, do they go for the safe, guaranteed bet, and make their pretty good rotation one of the best and youngest in the league.
    Imagine in 2013
    CC
    Hamels
    Hughes
    Pineda
    Nova
    Banuelos
    Betances
    Warren
    Phelps
    I know it’s costly, but I think this is the direction you have to go…

  214. Paul VuvuZuvella says:

    I’m looking forward to the next fan confidence poll. Bact to 8 for me.

  215. David K. says:

    Hate to tell you all but I’ve got a bad feeling about this. The trade happened on Friday the 13th on a terrible windy weather day in New York. Looks like we traded a sure fire great hitter for a question mark flame throwing young pitcher. If it was up to me, I’d have kept Montero as the sure thing. Our lineup needs great young hitters like him. Now we’ve got a big question mark as our supposed number two pitcher. Pineda’s only got two pitches. Not very promising.

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