Mar
20

ST Game Thread: Pineda’s Fourth Try

By

Changeup! (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)

I don’t think I’ve ever been as simultaneously excited and sick of hearing about a player quite like I am Michael Pineda. Well, that’s not true. The Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes attention was both exciting and gross at the same time, but it took them years to get there. Pineda’s been here for like, three weeks, and I already lovehate hearing about the guy. If it’s not about his changeup it’s about his velocity, or his weight, or his service time, or something else. Can’t we just enjoy watching someone pitch? Let’s try that tonight. You’ll be surprised at how relaxing it is. Here’s the starting nine…

CF Curtis Granderson
RF Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano
3B Alex Rodriguez
1B Mark Teixeira
DH Andruw Jones
C Russell Martin
SS Eduardo Nunez
LF Brett Gardner

RHP Michael Pineda

Available Pitchers: RHP Mariano Rivera, RHP Rafael Soriano, LHP Boone Logan, and RHP Cory Wade are all scheduled to pitch tonight. RHP George Kontos, LHP Clay Rapada, LHP Juan Cedeno, LHP Mike O’Connor, LHP Cesar Cabral, and RHP Branden Pinder are available if needed.

Available Position Players: C Frankie Cervelli, 1B Eric Chavez, 2B Ramiro Pena, SS Doug Bernier, 3B Jayson Nix, LF Bill Hall, CF Justin Maxwell, RF Colin Curtis, and DH Raul Ibanez will replace the starters.

Tonight’s game will begin at 7:05pm ET and can be seen on YES. Enjoy.

  • Pinstripes in Cali

    You guys watching the Andy presser coverage? You sometimes don’t think of him as a Texan, then you hear him talk- yikes!

    • Bryan__from NZ

      Arodys about to have TJ surgery.

      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....nt-2416508

      That’s the problem with FB-SL pitchers, Liriano, Arodys, Strasburg, Joba.

      Best not to jinx anything by mentioning TJ for other FB-SL pitchers.

  • CANO FAN #1

    I expect a 95 – 96 mph for Pineda tonight

    • Jesse

      I expect mostly 91 mph and everyone at ESPNNY to freak out again about his “v-lo”.

    • Pinstripes in Cali

      sitting at 90-91.

      • CANO FAN #1

        I saw one at 93 already

        • Bryan__from NZ

          Someone needs to substantiate Keith Law’s report that Pineda’s velocity was quote “93 – 96″ this time last year. I.e. links to Mariners message boards during ST last year.

          IIRC Riveraveblues did a study that showed pitching velocity to max out by mid-season.

          Plus Pineda’s trying to incorporate a changeup. Surely Pineda’s still getting used to the mechanics of throwing it at will, while maintaining a similar arm speed for his other pitches.

          Maybe long term, Pineda won’t be able to have both a mid-upper 90s fastball and a changeup. With his control anyways, I’d prefer Pineda to have low 90s heat and a good changeup in YS3.

  • Cy Pettitte

    91

    there’s an MLB lemon law right?

    • Samuel

      Why? It is not like Montero is tearing up the Cactus League/

      http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.....='ALL

      Oh wait, yes, he is.

      • Evan3457

        Actually, he’s not.

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          Huh? Take another look. OPS> .900 is a monster any way you slice it. We can debate the SSS/ST issues, but the numbers themselves paint one clear answer to the question of whether he is tearing it up.

  • Peter North

    Where will Andy most likely pitch once the season starts?

  • Johnny Nitro

    Can he be considered the black Phil Hughes yet?

    • hogsmog

      Pineda’s fastball and slider have so much movement that, unlike Hughes, I think he could be quite successful living in the low 90s.

      • Kevin Winters

        True but when the Yankees made the trade a low 90s guy is not what they thought they were getting?

        • Havok9120

          Very, very true.

          We just need to see where it tops out. He’s gaining about 1 MPH per start. We have to see where it plateaus.

        • nedro

          Oh, would everyone just shut up about trading Jesus? Just wait 6 years or so, and we’ll have them both! And neither will have reached 30 yet.

          • Kevin Winters

            Why would Montero want come back to the Yankees?

            • DM

              $$$$$$

              • split-finger

                LOL i betcha he will

              • Kevin Winters

                He can get money anywhere.

  • bpdelia

    I fully expect sitting 92 hitting 94-95. It’s time to start ramping it up a bit.

    • Havok9120

      Half the people who saw the game say you got just that. ~92 and consistent 93s. Touched 94.

      The other half say he was sitting at 91 and touched 93.

      Sigh. This is getting too partisan. We can’t even agree on the events of the game.

  • Andy

    Does anyone know if YES is going to be broadcasting games on YES.com again like in previous years? If so, do you know if that covers spring training games? I don’t see any place to sign up.

    Thanks,
    Andy

  • Chip

    2-0 fastball right by an all-star at 92. I’ll take it

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Axisa: Relax and enjoy the guy pitch.
    Everyone Else: OH MA GAWDZ WE SHOULDA KEPT DA MONTERO

  • thenamestsam

    I’ll be more worried once he can’t get the velocity going as he pitches deeper into games. As David Cameron pointed out low 90s was not unusual for him early in games in the 2nd half last year. He usually worked his velocity up as the game went along. I’m curious to see where he is in the 5th or 6th inning.

    I wonder if there’s some issue in how he’s warming up or something like that.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I’m assuming we’re not talking the British Premier here.

      • Havok9120

        I hear he’s a closet Yanks fan.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Bet he wonders what’s with the funny-looking rounded bats.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    I saw that tweet, Axisa.

  • STONE COLD Austin Romine

    This is disappointing.

    Yes its spring training and it looks as if the pirates hitters are late on his fastball.

    …But these 3-2 counts are maddening.

    • Chip

      Wow, maybe he is the black Phil Hughes, can’t put a batter away with 2 strikes

      • Cy Pettitte

        Hughes part deux: electric boogaloo

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Axisa jinxed it.

  • STONE COLD Austin Romine

    I’ll give him a mulligan for the first two innings.

    Hopefully he’ll finish strong.

  • Chip

    Wow, think he was sitting on that slider?

  • George king

    No velocity and lost his slider. I miss you Jesus. Yankees scouting ftw

    • Havok9120

      I laughed at the handle.

  • neo

    HR, thats it season over. :-)

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Mathematically eliminated in Spring Training. I thought that only happened in Kansas City.

      • Havok9120

        Been known to occur in Baltimore and Pittsburgh as well.

  • STONE COLD Austin Romine

    Oh well. Been looking forward to this start.

    Off to watch the knicks game instead.

  • Pinstripes in Cali

    I blame Andy. If he’d declared his intentions in December, our rotation could be CC>Kuroda>Pettite>Nova>Hughes, with Garcia as a backup and an RoY DH.

    • Needed Pitching

      nope.

    • Havok9120

      This is a joke, right?

      I’m almost certain you’re joking, but can’t tell after the last week.

  • George king

    Seatle gm is laughing so much right now.

    • Chip

      Yeah, he’ll be laughing all season while they lose 3-2 while Montero hits 2 homers

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Same reaction everyone gets looking at his roster.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Can we just out you as a troll now?

      • Havok9120

        I thought his handle said it all. I’m still assuming its parody for the moment.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    These Pirate radio guys sound like very bitter men. This is what years of losing must do.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    Granderson with a two-strike opposite field double, Swisher goes from 0-2 to a walk. Love it.

    • forensic

      Swishers first walk of the spring. Moderately surprising.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    Robbie’s not exactly having a banner spring.

    • DM

      Trade him for Montero — start Corban Joseph.

    • forensic

      Only 2 starters are. Hopefully they find themselves in the next two weeks.

  • Now Batting

    Spring training…results mean diddly

  • forensic

    If not for jeter, we could’ve seen the opening day lineup tonight. Oh well, still a nice sign that we’re getting closer and closer.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yeah, I think everyone’s starting to go a little batty with all the ST games.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Spring Training can/should be a blast. Players just working on their stuff, getting a chance to see young guys you know by name, etc. Somehow, it gets turned into mid-season baseball for some.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          It’s fun at first, but 2-3 win it starts to get stale for me.

        • forensic

          It’s fine at the beginning, but it can get old quick, more so if you know nobody, at least nobody young or new, is fighting for jobs.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    We’re going to hear this Piniella-A-Rod story every time he calls a game this year. Sigh.

    • Pinstripes in Cali

      Seriously. That’s the third time this spring. means I’m watching too much ST.

  • fin

    I’ll say this about MLB.TV the quality of the video gets better every year, its not at the level of HD TV yet but its slowly but surely getting there. The lock ups and stalls are less and less each year also. Its a really good product. Its a life saver for those of us that moved away from the NY/NJ area.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yeah, I’m pleasantly surprised by the quality this year.

      • fin

        Yea, I went with MLB.TV, I think 4 years ago becasue the MLB package on TV only showed like 2 Yankee games a week. It was a pretty rough product back then. The picture was pretty bad and it locked up and stalled all the time, had to refresh the page 10x a game. Every year it has gotten better to the point where this year, its pretty close to the quality of watching a game on TV.

      • Sarah

        I’ve hooked mine up via Apple tv (with an ethernet cable not wireless) and the picture quality is fantastic.

        • fin

          I’m watching on a 50″ tv with HDMI cable from my laptop, looks great.

  • Opus

    Kyle Farnsworth, now that guy had some velocity!

    • Rainbow connection

      Haha

  • Pinstripes in Cali

    Nevermind! 2 STRAIGHT K’S! CY YOUNG THIS YEAR FOR SURE.

    • Havok9120

      THREE!

      Jesus who?!?!??!!!1!1!!!one

      • fin

        Dont get too excited, none of his fastballs were above 92!

        • Havok9120

          SEND HIM TO THE MINORZ!

          • fin

            He does have options left!

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    That was a great inning even though two of the three strikeouts were Alvarez and the pitcher.

    • Bryan__from NZ

      The board on ESPN is freaking out about Pineda

      http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/.....=320320110

      Sucks living in NZ, baseballs during work.

      • Pinstripes in Cali

        jeez, that board is a zoo. Much more civilized discourse over here at RAB.

      • Havok9120

        Holy crap, that’s just silly.

        This is why I don’t go there anymore.

        • The Irony Guy
          • Havok9120

            Um? Our 5 posts parodying other boards and some of our more… transient posters here says what exactly?

            • The Irony Guy

              I would imagine irony. One who feels superior, or more educated about a community proceeds to make fun of others in an immature light which is comparable to the people you’re making fun of? Yes, irony.

              Don’t proclaim yourself as better when you do the same exact things.

              • Havok9120

                If mocking the narrative, a narrative that changes by the day and is based on something virtually the entire baseball community sees as pretty meaningless means I feel superior well then….yes, I feel superior. I wish I’d known I felt superior. It’d probably help my self-esteem.

                If thinking my opinion is right means I also view myself as superior well then don’t we all? I mean, all of us think our opinions are right, no? And if you want to go read that board, then tell that the average denizen of this board acts the same as the average there (or that I act the same as the average there), then I’d ask you to go take another look at that board. If you still think so, then we disagree. And that doesn’t bother me one bit.

                Anyway. You win(?). ‘Grats.

      • fin

        There are two boards to avoid at all costs, ESPN and MLB. Mainly a bunch of trolls or completely clueless fans.

        • Bryan__from NZ

          Good call, Lohud’s can be pretty depressing as well.

          • Havok9120

            LoHud’s is so disorganized and confusing that I don’t even bother. Most people don’t stay on topic and carry over conversations from 3 threads ago without missing a beat. I get a headache just looking at it.

        • forensic

          A group of us who posted at espn way back actually went to one of their rarely used boards to avoid that while still chatting about games and random stuff.

      • Havok9120

        Oh, and now that we’ve tied it up, the flaming of ARod has begun.

        One guy had a good, if oft used, quote though:

        “Beating the Yankees is like the World Series for every team’s fans even in Spring Training. This is just another Spring Training game for the Yankees. “

      • jay h

        I love seeing all of the angry penguins fans there.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    Anyone else’s MLB.tv feed acting up?

    • fin

      Mine is fine so far.

      • Pinstripes in Cali

        I’ll confirm that mine is working fine as well. That said, I had to upgrade my internet once I purchased MLB.tv this spring- I’m not sure what I was at, but it kept freezing up. Upgraded (and paid an extra $10/mo) and my internet flies (getting 2.5 Mb/s on bittorrent), and MLB.tv never locks up anymore.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          It’s just me. The feed was freezing up every so often. Working now, fingers crossed.

    • Chip

      It keeps jumping back in time for short periods for me

    • http://abovetheyankeedugout.com/ Carl

      Been that way for me since renewing my subscription 3 Saturdays ago.

  • Preston

    93

    • Preston

      And froze Andrew Mccutchen. I think people are going to have to shelve their v-lo panic and find something else to freak out about.

      • Sarah

        No way. Marchand is already stoking the flames of panic.

  • fin

    Man, I really dig how fast Pineda works. He gets the ball and throws.

  • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

    Pineda has K’d 5 of the last 6.

  • Karl Krawfid

    Fastball command is sick.

    Locking hitters up inside.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    Drag bunts don’t get much better.

  • Chip

    Now that’s what I want Gardner to be doing more this season, that was beautiful…….now steal second

  • Preston

    Only Gardner can go first to third jogging.

  • George king

    New article tomorrow unless I see 95.

  • DM

    1st = no command, breaking balls backing up, flying open

    2nd = less breaking balls, more fastballs, better command
    3rd = nearly all fastballs, even better command

    The raw stuff was the same — but the command changed everything.
    And he’s getting outs without his slider tonight.

    • Havok9120

      Yeah, he’s pitching differently than he has been. Which makes sense since they’ve had all the young guys go out with a goal in their first 3 starts. This time through it seems like they’re pitching as they may during the season in terms of selection.

      Or I’m just not paying close enough attention. Could go either way.

      • DM

        I don’t think it was by design to start the game. He threw over 35 pitches in the 1st inning alone. I think he just abandoned the slider b/c he didn’t have a good one. But he got through the outing by spotting the fastball. He adjusted. That’s good — even if the gun didn’t break 93mph.

        • Zanath

          I saw one 94. Only one, but there were definitely more 93s at least.

          • DM

            He threw the two best 4-seamers I’ve seen him throw all ST. And I thought there was one 94mph in there too but I wasn’t trusting my memory of the number — but I remember the pitch.

            • Havok9120

              I’ve heard about the 94 from a bunch of people, so the gun definitely reported it.

              Now…about that gun….

              No way to know unfortunately. I wish I could’ve seen the game to better gauge what his velocity was averaging though. If he was sitting ~92 with consistent 93s and a 94, that continues the same trend of progress we’ve seen so far. ~1MPH per start gain.

              • DM

                Slightly better — but that’s not the story to me. And most here aren’t distinguishing between fastball types either. He threw a lot 2-seamers, a few cutters, and some 4-seamers. But if you’re watching the game and see a 2-seamer down and in to a RHH, you shouldn’t expect that to read 94mph+. It’s not just his “fastball” as though it’s one fixed pitch you can monitor. There may have been only one 94, but I didn’t expect many others b/c he wasn’t throwing that many 4-seamers. The slider has been his out pitch in all the prior starts I saw — but he didn’t have it tonight — so he went to spotting 2-seamers after that long 1st inning. Plan B was about spotting fastballs down and in/away.

                And despite the label of 2-pitch pitcher — fastball and slider — he varies the grip and delivery on the former a lot. He even gets under the ball — like you’d see from a side-winder — on some up and away fastballs. I checked video from last year and it was the same thing. Lotsa variation on his fastballs. Maybe that’s how he still pitched well without a MLB-caliber third pitch.

                • Havok9120

                  Yeah, we got into FB types further down the chain. You’re absolutely right.

                  • DM

                    Yeah, I just noticed that. I posted an abridged version down there.

  • Pinstripes in Cali

    Swisher out, clutching his groin after a weird swing at the plate.

    Is it just me or are there more injuries than usual this year? Or maybe it’s just happening to bigger names this year…

    • Karl Krawfid

      Swish doesn’t count. He’s been hurt every year.

    • Preston

      I don’t feel like we’ve had to many injuries, Jeter, Swish and Kontos had strains plus Cano, Nunez and Garcia got hit on the hand with balls. That doesn’t seem to eventful. Maybe I’m forgetting something?

  • https://twitter.com/#!/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

    I was just gonna post what great shape Swish looks like he is in.

  • Havok9120

    How many pitches for Pineda? I can’t watch the game and MLB Gameday doesn’t seem to list it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      72

      • Havok9120

        Thankee.

    • forensic

      72

  • RetroRob

    91, 92, 93 mph . . .

    I’m beginning to think Rivera could pitch until he’s 50.

    • Havok9120

      5 pitches for 3 outs and a K….

      Sheesh. No wonder he may retire, he’s probably bored.

      • RetroRob

        Shhhh…quiet. That’s just a rumor. He’s going to sign another two-year contract.

        • Havok9120

          My only realistic expectation of him staying at this point is if he say’s he’ll stay until Jeet’s contract expires.

          Which would freaking ROCK.

        • fin

          LOL, now if he wanted to sign another 2 yr deal, that would really throw a wrench into the 2014 plan. I dont think they have 15m budgeted for a closer. I would really like to see what happens if he decided he wants another 2 year deal.

          • Havok9120

            The plan would get pushed back a year, methinks. Or we’d lose another position player.

            I mean….people would burn down the stadium if they said “Now, Mo, we really think you should take one year. We don’t really have room on the team for you passed that.”

            • fin

              I would like to think they would make accomadations for him but I’m not sure. I personally think the Stiens want to sell the Yankees and getting under that tax and getting a windfall in money in 2014 and 15 is the perfect time to do it. I hope I’m wrong as I would like the team to stay in the Stiens family, and I’m afraid of the type of buyers that could afford the Yankees. Mainly corporations.

              • Havok9120

                Ehhhh. I don’t see them selling. Hal seems to have taken to it more than he thought he would, at least publicly. You’re right to fear potential buyers though.

                Oh Christ.

                Mark. Cuban.

                That’d just be too funny.

                • Mike HC

                  I would love Cuban actually. It is the bumbling corporations that I would be worried about.

                  • Havok9120

                    Oh, I’d love Cuban too. He’s like the Boss minus the worst of the micromanagement.

                    The Corps….well, I’ve heard enough stories about the pre-Steinbrenner days to know that that is a losing proposition.

          • MannyGeee

            Fuck it… If its a financial thing then trot out Romine & Dickerson in place of Swish & Russell and keep MO… There’s your 13M, and no I’m not joking. That’s how good he still is.

            • Havok9120

              I think most of us here would make that trade.

      • Chrisis

        Actually took him 9 pitches though, 8 strikes.

        • forensic

          You’re right, I was thinking of the strikes they were mentioning, so my correction was still wrong, I’m an idiot.

        • Havok9120

          Stupid Gameday. I may go back to ESPN’s.

          Oh, wait, they don’t do it for ST.

          Boooo.

      • forensic

        8 pitches, but still awesome.

  • tyrone sharpton

    why r ppl questioning pineda’s velo? cc’s was also down in his last start. doesn’t matter yet people

    • fin

      MOst of us are just joking.

      • tyrone sharpton

        dont agree…a lotta ppl aint jokin to me.

        • neo

          There is a weird dynamic going on here. Some people are really serious about complaints about Pineda, probably because they still feel the pain of the Jesus deal.

          As a reaction to those folks who are serious, others are making absurd comments to illustrate that it is only spring training.

          I’ve given up trying to figure out who is really worried and who isn’t.

          • Havok9120

            Probably for the best.

  • Havok9120

    Hey, hey, Robbie took a walk.

    Nice to see that he remembers how.

  • Bo Knows

    Pineda

    1st start- upper 80′s topping out at 91
    2nd start- 90-91 topping at 92
    3rd start 90-92
    4th start 91-93 topping at 94

    Seems to me he’s getting arm strength and velocity as he goes about ST…who would have guessed?

    • Havok9120

      Is that an accurate summation of his velocity this game?

      Not being able to watch stinks.

      • Bo Knows

        Yes, note that the 94 was hit only once; but his velocity had more than a couple of 92′s and 93′s

        • Havok9120

          The 93s are interesting. We didn’t see any of those last time even after accounting for that darn gun the Nats had working.

          I’m on the side of seeing progress as enough of a positive to not worry as yet.

  • Samuel

    Just saw where Arodys Vizcaino, who the Yankees traded for Javier Vazquez, had season ending Tommy John surgery.

    http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-b.....w-surgery/

    He also had elbow problems in 2010. He had head issues in the Yankee minor leagues.

    Although the Braves turned Michael Dunn into Dan Uggla, Boone Logan and Vizcaino are only players still with either team from that 2009 trade.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Considering that Melky got released and was free to sign with any team, Logan has been the most productive player in that trade.

      • Samuel

        That is correct.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Of course Arodys could come back and turn into Felix Hernandez, but this is his third major injury in the last four years. As I’ve been saying, you always trade the kid in short season ball for the guy that was a Cy Young contender.

          • Samuel

            With his prior attitude issues, highly unlikely he puts the time in for serious Tommy John rehab.

  • Wrong

    1st start – 89-91
    2nd start – 90-91 topped out at 94
    3rd start – 90-92 topped out at 93
    4th start – 90-91 topped out at 94

    Same crap he’s been throwing all Spring

    • George king

      My article will be up tomorrow. Read it or I will start covering other sports.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        OK. Not a troll at all. Well played, son.

        • Havok9120

          +1

    • Your Wrong

      Wrong he threw many balls at 92 and 93 topping out at 94

      • You’re* Wrong dummy

        I kept a spread sheet, he hit 94 once, 93 7 times, and average 90.5
        No improvement.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I haven’t been keeping track at all, but how does the frequency of his hitting 93-94 compare to the other outings?

          • Havok9120

            From what I’ve read, he hit 93 a lot more consistently this time.

            I mean, we barely saw 93 at all his last start, even adding an MPH or three to that wonky gun. 7 times is nice.

            Without any PitchFX data, we just have no way to know much more as yet. I think he’s improving incrementally, but without knowing exactly what type of FBs he’s throwing when he hits a given velocity, theres no good way to quantify it beyond the eye test.

          • You’re* Wrong dummy

            He topped out at 94 in his second start, so this is nothing new.

            And he had more 88′s and 89′s than 93′s.

            • Havok9120

              See, earlier you were reporting something marginally different and I believed you. Now you’re totally off the grid from everyone else and that makes me question previous data.

              Sigh. I hate Spring Training.

        • CP

          What are you counting as fastballs?

          He looks like he’s throwing a lot of cutters that are 89-91 with good movement. Then there are a lot of fastballs (generally up in the zone) that were 92-93.

          • You’re* Wrong dummy

            These weren’t cutters, they had tailing action. His fastball still sucks, I’m disappointed.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Whatever dude. If you can’t be disappointed on March 20th, when can you be?

              • You’re* Wrong dummy

                In a couple weeks when he’s throwing the same speed.

                • Havok9120

                  Yes, if that happens then we’ll pretty much all be worried, or at least ticked that we didn’t get what we paid for.

          • Havok9120

            And now we’ve hit another problem. We’re judging what a pitch is from the eye test. I KNOW I’m unreliable at that, and I’d bet most of us here are as well. Unless we get a show just as he’s releasing, we don’t know what type of FB he’s throwing. And it matters quite a bit unfortunately.

            Yet another reason the season needs to start. PitchFX date, more reliable guns, etc.

            Either way, we can all agree its still low. We just don’t know HOW low and can’t agree on whether its improving as ST goes along.

            • You’re* Right

              amen

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Can you stick to one handle please? You’re working on three in this thread alone. Makes the conversation tough to follow.

          • DM

            Yes. He’s got a few fastball variations. I think some are expecting 94+ from cutters and 2-seamers. You can’t act like it’s one pitch called “his fastball”. When I see him throw a 4-seamer from the belt up, I look for the high reading — not on cutters or 2-seamers that he’s trying to paint down and in or down and away. You need to follow more than the gun.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Arguing over a 2mph difference in his fourth ST start.

            • Havok9120

              Hey, does it at least generate click traffic on the site? That can be useful.

        • I’ll indulge you,

          His first start was registered at 88-91

          source Ken Rosenthal

          2nd start came March 10th

          he hit 93 once or twice but was within the 90-91 range mostly

          source Bryan Hoch

          3rd start he was mostly 90-92 hitting 92 several times but not breaking higher

          This 4th start he in 91-93 range, and if he threw 72 total pitches that roughly equates to 11% of his total pitches were at least 93. I did not count how many FB he threw but I’m going to estimate that around 43 were fb’s ( this equates roughly to about 60% of his pitches, which is close to his average FB usage of 2011) so that breaks down to about 18% of Pineda’s fb’s were at least 93 mph. That’s a big improvement, and doesn’t disprove my statement that he was in the 91-93 mph range topping at 94.

          suck it.

          • You’re* Right

            When you ignore his 89′s and 90′s you’ll get a higher average but you won’t get the facts. Thank you for indulging me.

            • We’ll agree to disagree

              We should be looking at whether he’s capable of hitting those upper marks. Pineda would often throw an 88-89 mph fb even last year when he was averaging 95 and reaching hitting 99. That variation in speeds is just who he is as a pitcher, the fact of the matter is that his velocity is steadily increasing (albeit slower than some would want)

              • You’re* Right

                I don’t see that it’s increased much at all. And if we’re going by hitting those upper numbers than I’m VERY concerned that he’s 4mph slower than last year. The closer we get to the season the more likely it’s pointing to a possible underlying injury.

              • DM

                I’m sure Cashman will push the fact that he hit 94 tonight — even if it was only once. That’s the plus line. The difference between 92 and 94 is more significant than the difference between 94 and 96.

                • You’re* Right

                  Meh, sounds more like something Girardi would hang his hat on than Cashman.

                  • DM

                    Nah, Girardi’s mantra is “compete” and “get outs”. He’s not a v-lo guy.

  • Alex S

    “Yea Ju No”

  • RetroRob

    Grandy seems in mid-season form tonight.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    It’s going to worth tuning into the Pineda postseason interview. I really wish he’d mention how much he loves to cook more. Nice recovery tonight after some early troubles.

    • RetroRob

      His fastball, even at reduced velocity, has good movement, and hets lots of swings and misses with that slider. If he can get back up to mid-90s he’s going to be very tough.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Even at 93-95, that changeup is going to, um, change things up a lot.

  • https://twitter.com/#!/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

    Already tired of Lou.

  • Ethan

    This has to be the most idiotic thing I’ve ever seen on ESPN. Seriously, Lin is more beloved in NY than Jeter? What is wrong with espn voters!

    http://espn.go.com/newyork/bracket/mostbeloved

    • RetroRob

      Is Lin even still playing? After that burst of publicity, I haven’t heard anything about him. What’s he been doing? And, yes, this is a serious question.

      • Ethan

        I don’t really follow basketball but my roommate does. Players adjusted to him and he has just been average. Last 10 games- averaging 15 pts per game. Still good, nothing amazing.

        • RetroRob

          Thanks. I’m the same. I follow it only during the playoffs, or when something interesting happens, like Lin, but that wore off. Hadn’t heard anything about him, one way or the other, so I figured he was probably doing okay, but not spectacular.

        • Bo Knows

          For a point guard 15 pts is actually very good, if he gets the assists up a little more and keeps the TO’s down he can be a top PG; not Derrick Rose Elite but that next tier like Rondo, or Chris Paul.

          note I do not consider Russell Westbrook a PG, he is a shooting guard faking at the PG position.

          • Bo Knows

            Also it’s going to be very hard to drop more than 20 if your playing with Carmelo, Amaury, and then dish the ball to guys like Davis who likes to shoot as well. That’s a ton of hands and only so many shots in a game.

          • Mykey

            Westbrook is not a real point guard but Rose is? Ok.

            I also like how Chris Paul is a “2nd tier” point guard in this scenario.

            I pretty much always appreciate your comments Bo, but this is way off. Averaging 15 points and 6 TO’s is not conducive to winning basketball, especially in a system that is so friendly to point guards (there’s a reason Raymond Felton kind of sucks now).Granted, I just made those numbers up, but they’re based on what you mentioned.

      • A.D.

        He plays, still has some good games, but has enough games where he turns the ball over a ton and it doesn’t get the coverage.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

      “This has to be the most idiotic thing I’ve ever seen on ESPN.”

      I’ll take “things people always say before linking to ESPN.com” for 1000 Alex.

    • Rainbow Connection

      Who cares what people voted? It means nothing, just like the confidence poll on RAB. Why do people get so perturbed about dumb polls?

  • Samuel

    I also saw where Roy Halladay went 6 innings, 3 hits, zero walks and 5 strikeouts in carving up the Baltimore Orioles today.

    Guess his velocity issues are no longer relevant either.

    “He (Halladay) got his command in the second or third inning,” manager Charlie Manuel offered. “He had good command of his pitches.”

    Which is always more important than velocity.
    See also: Michael Pineda.

    • Havok9120

      Most of the more reasonable people (which includes most of Pineda’s “detractors” [can't think of a better word, but that sounds harsh] here), are saying more that, even if he’s effective at 91-95, it isn’t what we paid for. And they’re quite right. The guy could still be dominant at 93 or 95, but we were sold a bill of goods that hasn’t arrived as yet.

      I still think it will. *shrug*

      • Reggie C.

        I hear you. We want to see Pineda sitting pretty at 93-5 but he only went three innings). Give the man 5 innings next time out and we’ll see the velocity stay in the mid 90s.

        • Havok9120

          To be fair, he only went three innings, but he threw 72 pitches. Your arm is as warm by then as its going to get.

          I really do think we’ll see improvements once he’s allowed 100 pitches though. I just don’t know how much.

          • DM

            Not to dissect this even further — but he had a horribly long first inning — 39? pitches to start the game. I think they might’ve pulled him if it went much further. That type of start doesn’t lead to the best measure of a typical outing.

      • CP

        The difference between 91-95 and 91-97 (which he was last year) is basically nothing.

        • Havok9120

          But people see it as “we understood we were getting this, and we got something lesser,” which is understandable given the amount of love there was for Montero.

        • Voice of Reason

          The difference between averaging 94.7 and averaging 90.5, however, is huge. No reason to express it in such a misleading way.

          • BeanTooth

            Cashman on ESPN radio yesterday said that Pineda came into camp 20 lbs overweight, not 10, and that he suspects he didn’t pick a baseball up all winter. Basically, he said Pineda is using Spring Training to get into shape and he’s not worried about his “velo”. Is he telling the truth? Who knows. But it’s plausible.
            http://espn.go.com/espnradio/n.....id=7705066

    • JobaWockeeZ

      That’s a poor comparison. Pineda can throw as low as he wants if he has Maddux like control like Halladay. Two completely different pitching styles…

    • Reggie C.

      Zach Britton facing season ending surgery probably took some air out of that Orioles team.

      • Havok9120

        But now they have Dontrelle Willis!

        I didn’t know about Zach Britton though (don’t keep up with other teams in ST). That stinks.

      • Samuel

        All reports say there are no shoudler tears (MRI on Feb. 8), just soreness. He was on strict pitch counts and innings caps last year, too.

        Pitch counts and innings caps never works. Didn’t work for Stephen Strasburg either. Let the kids throw the ball and get deeper into games.

        • DM

          Nolan Ryan and Jim Kaat agree.

          • Samuel

            I loved it when Kaat was in the Yankee booth.

  • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

    Sucky trade proposal of the night.

    Yankees acquire Alex Gordon

    Royals acquire Dellin Betances

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

      Should add, Yankees would likely have to include some low end prospects along with Betances corner-stoning.

    • Samuel

      Sucky for which side?

      Even if the Yankees “have to” throw in some middle of the road or better prospects, I make that trade for Gordon in a nanosecond.

      Gordon would be a stud hitter in Yankee Stadium and supplant Swisher in right field after this season.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

        Considering he’s a passable 3B too, he would fit well into the team. What gets a deal done though? Though the AL Central is weak, I don’t see the Royals being heavy competitors until at earliest his final contracted year.

      • Jesse

        Sucky for the Royals, big time.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Why are the Royals trading their best player?

      • Needed Pitching

        because Yankee fans want them to

        • Samuel

          Ha. Great one.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

        While the Royals have plenty of young prospects coming up soon, the 3 years of team control left on Alex Gordon doesn’t exactly lineup perfectly with their window to compete. I think they’d be better suited to find some pitching prospects. Also, it possible they’re selling high on Alex Gordon.

        • Samuel

          According to Cot’s, the Royals only have two years left with Gordon, who probably would command a five year deal ($10-12 million per?), if he has another very good 2012 season.

          Anybody on table except Manny, Mason Williams, Bichette, Sanchez and Phelps.

          • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

            Yup 2 years, my bad. I know the Royals are trying to work out an extension but if that doesn’t get done, he has more value to a competing team, no?

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Anybody on table except Manny, Mason Williams, Bichette, Sanchez and Phelps.

            How exactly do you plan to get him then? Have Derek Jeter woo Dayton Moore with his good looks?

            • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike E

              I was under the impression that Banuelos and Williams were untouchable because they’re part of the future Felix Hernandez trade.

            • Samuel

              The Royals have not had anything close to their young pitchers coming through for them. Guys like Montgomery, Duffy, Hochevar, Lamb are all OK or hurt, nothing great. And Aaron Crow and Felipe Paulino might be in this years Royals rotation. Yikes!

              They have several good, young hitters, but need pitching. Yanks have three guys at Triple A in Warren, Mitchell and Betances, but the big fish in the majors.

              I would headline a deal for Gordon with Phil Hughes, add Betances and another arm plus a minor position player (maybe Missouri product Shaeffer Hall and Corban Joseph/Tyler Austin) OR another Triple A arm of Warren/Mitchell.

              Hughes goes right into the Royals rotation, with Betances a possible mid-or-late season call up. If you add Warren/Mitchell, they are also potential mid-season call ups.

              Garcia gets the fifth spot until Andy is ready, then Freddy goes to the pen.

              No way Hughes is staying with the Yankees once he hits free agency. Get value for him now, especially when he “looks good” this spring.

              • Havok9120

                For one, you just traded a third of our pitching depth/prospects for 2 years of a single young player. The Yanks hang up right there.

                As for the Royals…What’s in it for them, exactly? A bunch of arms that won’t suck but won’t win them anything of note? I know very little about their roster, but the return you’re offering is a pair of non-MLB proven starters with ceilings as 4/5s, Betances, who half of the scouting world thinks is better off as a reliever, and Phil Hughes, an enigma so complex that even his most rabid supporters have trouble selling him as more than a question mark. Sure, Betances can be sold as a high-upside lottery ticket, but even the AAA arms are gambles. They’re young pitchers with zero meaningful MLB experience. Where’s the guaranteed upside for the Royals? Hughes? That’s no guarantee, much as I love the guy.

                • DM

                  I confess that I’m not a big Gordon fan — and I’m not a fan of most of the players offered either. But I’d make that deal in a heartbeat if I’m KC. I know they have a lot invested in the name “Alex Gordon” just like the Yankees do with “Phil Hughes” but I’d sell the former while his value is high. They might not be interested in Phil b/c it doesn’t help with the $ (and he’d leave anyway) so I don’t see it from that standpoint. But bottom line — I’d dump Gordon for a prospect package, and build around Hosmer/Butler instead. I’d never extend him either.

  • jay destro

    nope

  • Karl Krawfid
    • Havok9120

      Mo to centerfield!!

  • Chuck

    Being a failed pitcher myself I know the easiest way to end your season is to go out there and throw 96 after not throwing. You get tendinits. He showed up fat. Wait till may.

    • DM

      Yep. And you don’t expect to see much more on the radar gun after that exhaustive 1st inning. And in a ST game, the last thing you do is try to over throw after that long inning. He dialed back, gave up the slider — then spotted the fastball in and out. I’m glad he’s not getting sucked into lighting up the gun and blowing hitters away b/c every non-pro baseball person wants to see that. He pitched instead.

  • split-finger

    Every spring, players come back for spring training rusty. Let Pineda take his time, He’s just a kid. He’s not an ace. He hasn’t been in the major leagues for 5-10 seasons. You cant expect anything other than trying to get back in tune. Hence the point of spring training. Just be happy baseballs back…