ST Game Thread: Robertson Returns


(AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Eighteen days ago, David Robertson slid down some steps while carrying boxes at his house. Yankeeland collectively freaked out as the setup man extraordinaire showed up for work the next day with a limp and walking boot, but thankful the injury was nothing more than a bone bruise. After two weeks of rest and bullpen sessions, Robertson will return to game action today with plenty of time to get himself ready for the regular season. All things considered, it could have been worse. A whole lot worse. Here’s the starting lineup…

SS Derek Jeter – scheduled for five innings
CF Curtis Granderson
2B Robinson Cano
3B Alex Rodriguez
1B Mark Teixeira
C Russell Martin
DH Andruw Jones
RF Eduardo Nunez
LF Brett Gardner

RHP Michael Pineda

Available Pitchers: RHP Mariano Rivera, RHP Rafael Soriano, RHP David Robertson, and RHP Manny Delcarmen are scheduled to pitch after Pineda. RHP George Kontos, LHP Clay Rapada, RHP Phil Wetherell, RHP Branden Pinder, and SwP Pat Venditte are all available if needed.

Available Position Players: C Jose Gil, 1B Eric Chavez, 2B Bill Hall, SS Doug Bernier, 3B Brandon Laird, LF Jayson Nix, CF Dewayne Wise, and RF Chris Dickerson will replace the starters.

Today’s game starts at 1:05pm ET and can be seen on YES. Enjoy.


  1. Mike HC says:

    Pineda looks like he dropped a few already. Probably went on a diet for 3 days, ha.

  2. Rey22 says:

    Are those 88mph fastballs? I mean….damn.

  3. nedro says:

    getting guys out…

  4. Greg says:

    This is going to be a gasol for kwame brown type of deal. Hold your ankles yankees fans.

  5. ROBTEN says:

    That’s a pretty good way to rest one’s calf muscle.

  6. teddy says:

    so mike going to triple a, gotta fiqure and cashman should be fired

  7. Rainbow Connection says:


  8. nedro says:

    I know, ST gun and all, but still haven’t seen anything over 91…

  9. small sample size says:

    So seatle traded a starter throwing 95 with six years of control for a dh for no reason. Gj cashman.

  10. Big will says:

    God you guys overreact! Seattle averages like 3 runs a game, they badly needed montero, that is not a reflection on pineda. He will be fine. It’s march 25th

  11. Chuck says:

    Yeah I was doing my best to with hold judgement but cashman coulda done better through craigslist

  12. DM says:

    How’s Below’s velo?

  13. CS Yankee says:

    Waited all morning & couldn’t get the DirectTV feed from YES. A phone call later, added YES full-time (which last year they wouldn’t do), dropped MLB TV @ 35/mth…they call back & I explain NY baseball is all I need, they say YES won’t have all, I say I know that…they pause and offer me MLB for 19/mth. Bottom line, all Yankee games plus YES for less money.

    BTW, they connect it and the first image is Jeet going yard. 2012 should be great!

  14. Brandon says:

    Just turned the game on…

    But yikes, just read on twitter that Pineda is at 88-91 so far, according to Anthony McCarron, who also RT’d Frankie Pilere who has Pineda at 87-91 with one pitch at 92 so far. Wasnt Pineda sitting at 93-94 his last start? If he was still around there, with one or 2 pitches touching 95, I wouldnt be concerned. But now he is back down to high 80′s low 90′s and is barely touching 92? Yeah, I am very concerned about that…Now I know velocity doesnt mean alot, but thats if you have pin point location on your pitches, like Moose or Pettitte. Pineda’s claim to fame is power pitching with a fastball sitting 97-99. There has to be something up with him. The kid is 22!

    • You're* Right says:

      He sat 90-91 last start.

      When are we allowed to be concerned?

      • Sweet Dick Willie says:

        If he’s sitting at 90-91 at the end of April, it would be a legitimate cause of concern.

      • Brandon says:

        Im pretty sure I remember him hitting 93 and 94 multiple times last start…

        I am concerned right now. I was concerned at the beginning also when it was first noticeable that his FB is way down. There is something wrong here with Pineda, there has to be…

        • You're* Right says:

          He hit 94 once, 93 seven times. He had more 89′s.

          • Havok9120 says:

            Last starts 89s and 90s seemed to generally be 2 seamers. You know, the one’s that he’s always thrown in the low 90s.

            This I can’t watch. But it sounds like we’ve taken a step back.

            • You're* Right says:

              What does pitchFX say about his two-seamer last year?

                • You're* Right says:

                  Negligible difference in v-lo. I’m gonna throw this theory right out the window.

                  • Havok9120 says:

                    And you are quite right to do so. Interesting.

                    I mean, am I the only one that’s seeing two different pitches at in two different places at two different (relatively consistent) velocities?


                    • You're* Right says:

                      He definitely goes to a FB with more two-seam action inside lefties (which is an excellent approach). I doubt that’s knocking 2-3mph off his fastball. When I do see the lower velocity it’s usually starting off an at-bat trying to get ahead in the count. Once ahead he dials it up a bit as that’s when I see the 91-93.

                • DM says:

                  “All Pitch IDs have been manually assigned by the THT Staff by using a variety of techniques. Errors or issues should be reported on the forums.”

                  Oh boy.

                  I checked April of last year. The guy who needs to learn the changeup threw 35 of them in the first month of the last season?? — and they averaged near 90mph?? — and no 2-seamers at all?? In fact he didn’t throw a single 2-seam fastball until June??

                  Hmmm… I smell fantasy stat wonkdom. I wonder if watching the pitcher actually throw the ball is one of their “variety of techniques” for pitch identification.

                  • Mike Axisa says:

                    I get your point, but television camera angles are exactly conducive to identifying pitches, particularly different kinds of fastballs.

                    • DM says:

                      are or arent?

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Aren’t, my bad.

                    • DM says:

                      That’s what I thought — but I disagree. It’s not like the umpire and catcher but the CF camera is pretty good — you can usually confirm with a replay if you have a doubt. I’m watching the pitcher as much as where the ball winds up. I think that site is dividing up fastballs into 4-seam, sinker in a faulty way — and probably labeling some as changeups when they arent. And from what I’ve seen from Pineda this ST, he has variations on his fastball beyond this is my 4-seam — this my 2-seam. I saw one 2-seam fastball today that he tried to turnover like a screwball. And much more frequently he cuts his fastball (not like Pettitte — just slightly) I have a hunch things like these get plopped in the changeup bin on that site. You gotta watch the delivery, the catcher’s signs, the release, the rotation as well as where the ball winds up. I didn’t peruse how they come up with their stuff — but that little spot check makes me skeptical of their system. And the whole MPH thing is thrown off by that as well.

                  • You're* Right says:

                    ^ Here is the foundation for stupid mountains.

              • Bo Knows says:

                the 2 seamer is a pitch that Pineda said he wanted to work on this year along with the change-up.

                • DM says:

                  The slider is clearly his best pitch. And this ST when he throws a fastball, it’s been a 2-seamer variant most of the time. Very little belt-to-shoulder 4-seam gas — whether he doesn’t trust it or he’s working on other stuff, I don’t know. Maybe both. But I’m not looking for 95+ from 2-seamers with a little cut or turn over on them.

                  • You're* Right says:

                    This has to be my favorite result yet from the Michael Pineda Excuse Generator

                    • DM says:

                      All your posts show how little you really know about pitching. It’s just radar gun. He had 90mph changeup last year. I guess he lost some mile off that too. lol.

                      Are you a huge Montero fan by any chance?

                    • You're* Right says:

                      Look at the chart I just posted, dummy.

      • Mike E says:

        When he’s getting pummeled with hits.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        Whenever you want. See how far it gets you.

      • Bryan__from NZ says:

        Joe said it’s only ST so we’re not allowed to be concerned.

    • Bo Knows says:

      he hit 92, 93 many times in that start and 94 once but he sat in the 90-93

  15. Sweet Dick Willie says:

    I can imagine the reaction/comments if Pineda thought it was very important to impress the media, so he came out of the gate throwing 95 and hurt his arm.

    Spring training is about getting ready for a 6 month (hopefully 7) season, and not about results.

    I wonder if any member of the media took the initiative to inquire about how Pineda approached ST last year. It would be hilarious if Pineda started out throwing 89-91, and gradually increased his velocity as his arm got stronger.

    • CW says:

      I agree with your point, but I’m pretty sure he was throwing harder.FWIW, he had pitched in Winterball before that Spring Training.

    • CS Yankee says:


    • Brandon says:

      Your really about to blame the media for not doing research about it and asking Pineda about last year? Dont you think if it was the same thing last year, we would have already heard about it? Don’t you think the people at Seattle would have said something?!? Just stop. Something is wrong here with Pineda. No chance it was the same thing last year, you dont gain 10 mph on your fastball from the beginning of ST to the end of the year.

    • Now Batting says:

      It would be hilarious. Except I recall a tweet from Heyman saying he was at 97 in his second spring training start last year. Still funny? Getting ready for the season means ramping your velocity up and it’s clear that isn’t happening.

  16. Craig says:

    The results are there; honestly, I’m more concerned about Nova at this point.

  17. Greg says:

    High fastball at 89 hahaha

  18. TinoBambino24 says:

    What’s truly changed with Pinedas’ velocity? Is it arm angle perhaps? Or is this a sophmore slump? Throwing 89-91 against the Tigers now makes due. However, throwing 89-91 in mid-season form against this same team will break us.

  19. Rainbow Connection says:

    Whoa! That one was 81!

  20. Mike E says:

    What if all these 89-93 mph pitches are changeups? O_o

  21. flamingo says:

    Jeter might not like rest, but he needs to get it, apparently.

  22. Needed Pitching says:

    Who is this power hitter and what has he done with Derek Jeter?

  23. Chip says:

    On a positive note, Jeter can still destroy lefties

  24. Rey22 says:

    Pineda’s looking better now.

  25. Steve S. says:

    Imagine if the YES gun is a little fast. Then what?


  26. Needed Pitching says:

    good to see the umpiring rounding into mid-season form

  27. SevenAces says:

    Jeter + Calf Injury/Strain = ????

    I know this is a small sample size, but does Jeter hit better coming back from these calf injuries or what?

  28. Preston says:

    Today is the first day that I have been nervous about Pineda. He looked so much better in the 2 and 3 inning last start. I was hoping he’d build on it. He’s missing his spots, I don’t know if he’s overthrowing or what, but that might be contributing to his lower velocity. The other thing that I think must be an issue is his pre-game, because this inning he’s throwing 92 and hit 94. I know some pitchers pick up a little velocity in the mid innings but 4-6 mph seems like a lot. It strikes me that he’s warming up as he goes.

    • Greg says:

      Isn’t this what was said when joba lost velocity.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        Everyone was so hung up on Joba not hitting 100 that they never bothered to notice that he was really good. Better reliever than Bard and his big fastball and he was a better starter than Bard will ever be too.

        • Preston says:

          I’m not in panic mode or anything. I just think that at this point it be nicer to hit his spots and come out sharp, rather than have to work into it. If Havok90210 is right that he’s was working on his 2 seamer early then that would pretty much alleviate any concern, as it would explain why it was lower velocity and more erratic than the fastballs he was throwing later on.

          • Havok9120 says:

            I’m probably wrong, as discussed above.

            But he’s definitely getting two different but consistent outcomes. At least he seems to be. I is baffled.

            While I’m not concerned yet, its definitely interesting in a clinical way.


    • Mike E says:

      He just finished the last inning striking out the last two on a 91 and 92 mph fastball.

      • Havok9120 says:

        Low or high?

        His 2-seamer is what he’s been trying to throw low and inside and has been clocking much slower than his 4-seamer, which he’s seems to throw up.

        I wish I could watch. Booooo.

    • Havok9120 says:

      He’s already said that that’s what he wanted to do.

  29. pat says:

    Regardless of what happens today. I’m still pissed it seems he didn’t work out at all during the winter. And OF COURSE he gets traded to us and his velocity is down causing mass hysteria. Nothing can be f*cking easy.

  30. G says:

    Wow the Pineda freak out has finally invaded RAB. Shut up people, he looks fine.

    • Havok9120 says:


      This may be something of a crescendo, but this has happened to a greater or lesser extent every start he’s made.

  31. The Moral Majority is Neither says:

    Pineda was the only rookie starter to average over 9 k/g with under 3 bb/g. Ever. Including his second half and road stats. Please give him a chance.

  32. Chrisis says:

    How awesome would it be if Pineda’s velocity issues turn out to be some elaborate prank?

  33. Steve S. says:

    Flaherty-”That’s not (Gardner’s) A-swing, though…”

    Gardner has an A-swing? Since when?

  34. Mike E says:

    There’s a 94.

  35. Havok9120 says:

    I’m sooooooooo tempted to look at the ESPN comments section. That place has got to be a zoo.

  36. You're* Right says:

    90.3 average on the day, right around where he was last start

    • Havok9120 says:

      And they’re still 2 different pitches.

      • DM says:

        Very few 4-seamers. He hasn’t gone up the ladder that much either — and he rarely tries to put anything extra on the ball — tries to hit spots more than challenge. Thankfully, I don’t think he’s listening to the velo buzz. And like I said last time, he’s not a typical 2-pitch guy; he varies the fastball a lot — cuts it here, turns it over there, etc, etc.

      • You're* Right says:

        There wasn’t much difference in v-lo on his two-seamer and four-seamer last year.

        • Havok9120 says:

          I know. Which is the part that interests me. It really does LOOK like two different pitches doing two different things, but last year it didn’t matter much. Consequence of the changeup? I have no idea if that’s something that ever happens.

          My position last week remains: we’re not gonna know Jack Squat until we get to a park with Pitchf/x data to compare with last year’s. Which really, really sucks.

          • DM says:

            I don’t doubt that he isn’t throwing as hard as last year. I just think most analysis here leaves out the context of him pitching in situations. I haven’t seen as many fastballs where I’m even expecting a high radar gun reading. He’s not rearing back and saying “Here, hit it if you can”; and he’s much more of pitcher than the thrower he appeared to be from afar. He has a repertoire that goes beyond mowing everyone down with 95mph + 4-seamers up and 86mph hard sliders down and in/away. He’s not Betances-like.

            • You're* Right says:

              This theory is asinine

              • DM says:

                Right — use pitchFX. The site that says he didn’t throw a single 2-seamer until June — but threw 35 changeups last April — that averaged 90mph?! (the guy who’s trying to incorporate a changeup THIS year). Watch the games — when you cut a fastball to nip the outside corner, you’re trying to hit the spot, not light up the gun or blow it past someone. He’d miss if he tried that. 89mph hits the spot; 93mph is outside for a ball. It’s called pitching.

                • You're* Right says:

                  And last year was 93 to hit the spot, and 97 to blow it by people. It’s just not there this Spring.

                  • DM says:

                    “I don’t doubt that he isn’t throwing as hard as last year.”

                    What about the line above didn’t you comprehend?

                    I didn’t watch him last ST, did you?

                    Have you watched him this ST?

                    I have.

                    Have you seen 4-seamers, 2-seamers, cutters, sliders and a few changeups?

                    I have. Of those pitches, sliders and 2-seamers have been featured most.

                    Fit those pitches into pitchFX for 2011 and tell me how that makes sense.

                    Do you really think that the guy who needed a changeup threw more changeups in April of 2011 than he threw 2-seamers all of 2011??? Either he’s totally reinvented himself this ST or their analysis is faulty — or “asinine”. If he has reinvented himself, then you can’t judge “velo” if he’s working his “new” 2-seamer that he only threw 23 times last year.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      He was mid-90′s in first start of spring training last season. Sorry, I’m going to trust pitchFX over dmFX

                    • DM says:

                      That’s fine – just don’t rely on “Pitch ID” to actually ID pitches; it’s not like that’s essential or anything. hahaha

                    • You're* Right says:

                      The chart has clearly defined clumps for his fastball and change-up:

                      Really, you have to be a pretty DM person to think you can do a better job of identifying pitches on TV than pitchFX’s algorithms.

                    • DM says:

                      Wow — I’m learning all kinds of stuff on that site. Rivera doesnt throw 4-seam fastballs!? And he threw 3 CURVEballs in 2008! I’m sure there’s plenty of gems here.

                      “The chart has clearly defined clumps for his fastball and change-up”

                      Yeah, it has clearly defined everything thru its “algorithms”. If you can’t see the absurdity of your statement, I can’t help you. You’re referencing the source to validate that same source?? You’re not getting the essential problem here. Having colored clumps doesn’t say anything about the accuracy of their identification of those pitches and putting them in said clumps. That’s the whole point. If a 2-seam fastball down and away is mischaracterized as a changeup, your clumps will still look pretty — but who cares??? Your average changeup speed just got wrongly elevated. It isnt about the graphs themselves — it’s about whether the graphs are a reflection of reality or just something forced into categories based on the “algorithm”.

                      You admit this “pitch identification hasn’t been perfected especially on identifying the difference between a four and two-seamed FB” but then we should look at the pretty graphs. OOOh, nice and clear — but who knows which were ACTUALLY 2-seamers or 4-seamers???

                      You’re worse than stupid. You’re living in the fantasy baseball Matrix. Someone should pull your plug.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      OMG I can’t even get through a few sentences of your post without first telling you how stupid you are.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      His changeups aren’t “mischaracterized”. Are you too dumb to realize that a guy who can crank it up to 99mph might be able to throw a changeup 90mph?

                    • You're* Right says:

                      “Have you seen 4-seamers, 2-seamers, cutters, sliders and a few changeups?”

                      No, what I’ve seen is a DM guy discount every pitch that didn’t reach 91 as something other than a four-seam fastball. My god you are so stupid I can’t believe it.

                    • DM says:

                      “He definitely goes to a FB with more two-seam action inside lefties (which is an excellent approach).”

                      “When I do see the lower velocity it’s usually starting off an at-bat trying to get ahead in the count. ”

                      “To my credit I didn’t get to view it from the CF camera.”

                      He “definitely” does such-n-such, huh? — but you don’t watch. Classic. You can scout his “excellent approach” from the colored clumps, not the CF camera? You hang yourself with your own hypocrisy. I guess if throws a bad 2-seamer or a slower one when he gets tired, it becomes one of those 89mph changeups. lol

                    • DM says:

                      “Are you too dumb to realize that a guy who can crank it up to 99mph might be able to throw a changeup 90mph?”

                      WOW, really? You are lost. I’ll let your statement stand on the quicksand of it’s ignorance.

                      And when you said “No” to this…

                      “Have you seen 4-seamers, 2-seamers, cutters, sliders and a few changeups?”

                      Sadly, I believe you. Close your eyes — and imagine your virtual reality of pretty colored clumps. Ooops, Pineda just cut another fastball — but our “algorithm” doesn’t count cutters for Pineda! Eh, just shove it into the 4-seamer category — we’ll count it as 90mph 4-seamer — hell, no one really relies on this stuff except…

                    • You're* Right says:

                      So DMy, in addition to pitchFX are you better also better than a scout at recognizing pitches?

                      “It’s not as good as last year,’’ the scout said of Pineda’s fastball, which topped out at 93 mph yesterday but sat at 90 with a few 88s mixed in. “The fastball has no life.’’

                      How much fecal matter is on that dumb fist you keep waving?

                    • DM says:

                      “DM says:
                      March 25, 2012 at 4:28 pm

                      I don’t doubt that he isn’t throwing as hard as last year. ”

                      What part of my statement above can’t you comprehend? I asked before but you still can’t answer — b/c it doesn’t suit your 1-note argument — “He’s not throwing as hard!”. We get it. What does that have to do with pitchFX identifying only 23 2-seamers for the WHOLE year – but 36 changeups in the first month of his career — a pitch that he supposedly doesn’t have — and they averaged 90mph in that month?? And that he threw his “changeup” 5 miles an hour harder than his slider?? There’s 2-seamers missing from their analysis; I think they’re in the changeup column. Mike saw my point. You can’t (or won’t) b/c your head is stuck in algorithmic fantasy baseball sand.

              • DM says:

                Some more of the “asinine” from the donkey’s mouth.

                “Nobody throws hard in spring training, because it’s spring training,” Pineda said. “You think a little more, and work on what you need. Now I’m focused a little more on making good pitches. I learned from last year. That’s what I need.”

                Pineda’s fastball generally sat at 90-92 mph today. He reached 93-94, but for the most part, the velocity wasn’t significantly different than we’ve seen in his previous starts. That said, there were times when his changeup seemed to be a legitimate go-to pitch, and Pineda talked about the fact he likes to add and subtract from his slider. It’s not just a power breaking ball, it’s a more nuanced pitch than that, and Pineda hasn’t been strictly a power pitcher, he’s been a little more nuanced as well.

                “It’s a little surprising that he does have an idea what he wants to do,” Joe Girardi said. “He can make his slider bigger when he wants to and he can make it different for right-handers and left-handers if he wants to. It is surprising for a kid his age.”

                “Everybody knows last year I threw harder,” Pineda said. “So (they ask), ‘Hey, what happened to Pineda right now?’ But nothing (happened). I feel good. I can pitch. Everybody sees me. I pitch every five days. … I know last year I threw hard, so I have more power. But this is spring training, so the power is coming back.”

                • You're* Right says:

                  “I had a good fastball,” he said. “To get 93, 94 is not easy.”

                  It was last year

                  • DM says:

                    I’m glad you appreciate the full context of what was said. lol.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      To my credit I didn’t get to view it from the CF camera.

                    • DM says:

                      Judging from your commentary, you could stand behind Martin next to the ump and still not know which pitch is which. You can check your iPhone in between pitches, I guess. Then you can tell Russell that the last 2-seamer was actually a 4-seamer according to pitchFX. When he tells you it really was a 2-seamer, you can call him a dummy a second before he knocks you on your ass — and 2 seconds before the ump stomps on your iPhone.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      Mike Axisa disagrees with you.

                    • You're* Right says:

                      Iphone? What kind of idiot brings a phone into an argument? So aside from pitchFX the iPhone is the “new” technology that frightens you?

        • DM says:

          See the roots of my skepticism of your source above.

          • You're* Right says:

            Why would you doubt the source? This was from PitchFX data that Mike linked earlier.

            • DM says:

              Look at my post above regarding that site’s “pitch identification”.

              • You're* Right says:

                Ah I see it now. Sure, pitch identification hasn’t been perfected especially on identifying the difference between a four and two-seamed FB but considering that he has not once topped out over his average last year I’m inclined to believe his FB isn’t close to what it was. This is a whole season’s worth of FB’s sitting in the same range and now a ST that hasn’t approached it. I’m inclined to think his 89′s are slow fastballs since he’s absolutely maxing out at 94. Pineda himself said he doesn’t know where the velocity is. It’s just not there yet.

                • DM says:

                  “Sure, pitch identification hasn’t been perfected especially on identifying the difference between a four and two-seamed FB ”

                  LOL. The whole point of using that source was to check the difference in MPH between 4-seam and 2-seam — but this site has trouble distinguishing between those 2 pitches??? Brilliant. I have a hunch some of those missing “down and away” 2-seamers are in the “change up” category on that site. That’s an awful lot of changeups from a pitcher who didn’t have one last year — and the 90mph average on those changeups sounds kinda high doesn’t it?? Almost like they’re not changeups at all, huh? What say you?

  37. Chrisis says:

    90 in the first, 94 in the fifth? He’ll throw 98 by the ninth.

  38. DM says:

    Similar MPH to last time — and his slider was better but the fastball command was worse. I thought he “pitched” better last time (after the 1st, I mean).

  39. mike_h says:

    too many LOB, ugh

  40. Rainbow Connection says:

    Flash is already calling 2012 ‘a championship season’?

  41. Rey22 says:

    God dammit, what is it with Yankees getting plunked this spring?

  42. Needed Pitching says:

    wow, nice catch

  43. Karl Krawfid says:

    I dive for no reason catch.

    Love those.

  44. Chrisis says:

    How awesome of a name is Michael Rockett?

  45. Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

    Did anyone else think of this when wise dropped that ball?;c_id=mlb

  46. Stan says:

    Montero 0-4 with 3 K’s today. M’s just might leave him in Japan…

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